Bad Review for the Zaurus 505
higginsx writes "Sharp's new Linux PDA, the Zaurus SL-5500, gets pretty bad marks from The Wall Street Journal's tech columist Walter Mossberg. He doesn't get much into the OS (other than complaining it wouldn't synch up with his laptop), but concludes that "it failed to do the simple things well. It has a high price, a complicated user interface, and hefty dimensions and weight. Even the cool-looking keyboard turns out to be clumsy to use."" I still really want
to try one out since I don't expect I'll ever sync a Zaurus to Outlook.
Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2)
"No! Bad Samwise! No ale for you!"
Heh.
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2)
A colleague of mine bought one at JavaOne too. It was sold for USD 200. Estimated retail price in Germany is over $500.
I had the chance to have a look at it. The keyboard is sweet, but a bit unusual. It is fun to launch a bash shell and start the vi editor. But I didn't came far, as the keyboard has no control keys. :)
The display is beautiful. The QT based GUI has a nice graphical design.
The weak spot seems to be the battery.
For $200-$300 I would buy one immediatly.
Regards,
Marc
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2, Informative)
Use Fn + Left shift for control keys
Use Fn + Right shift for alt keys
RTFM for the rest :)
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2)
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:3, Informative)
Make that [LeftShift + Space] gives you the | (pipe)
Re:Sl-5000D at JavaOne (Score:2)
I don't expect I'll ever sync a Zaurus to Outlook (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I don't expect I'll ever sync a Zaurus to Outlo (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess you intimated that with your second statement, I'm just saying that it was never a misuse by the user, just a lacking feature from the manufacturer. If users want to sync to Outlook, then 'but it's Linux!' should be met by the valid argument 'Then don't use Linux!'
I realise that Linux as an OS does not prevent the syncing, and that a bridge could be written, but you get my point.
Re:I don't expect I'll ever sync a Zaurus to Outlo (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems that logicians have used this phrase in the way you describe for hundreds of years, and I say it's about time they examine their usage and realize that it's nonsensical and a poor translation of "petitio principii". "Assumes the proposition" or even "circular argument" would describe the problem better and would release "beg the question" for such times as a discussion in fact "cries out for" a question to be raised.
Re:I don't expect I'll ever sync a Zaurus to Outlo (Score:2, Insightful)
"Begs the question" refers to how, if you use part of your conclusion to form part of your premises, and say that these premises prove your conclusion, then other rational listeners will point out that the question of whether the conclusion is justified is still open. Essentially, you have stated a circular argument, but in such bald terms that your listeners cannot help but ask if you have really accomplished anything. You have practically begged them to question your conclusions.
Or at least that's how it makes sense to me. It is a confusing term, which maybe shouldn't be used as much as it is. But we will be even more confused if we use the term to start meaning something else at this point.
Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:4, Insightful)
But you have to take these things in the appropriate context.
The issue is that Mossberg is well known in Mac circles for being a crotchety journalist who thinks computers mean WinTel. It's akin to pulling teeth to get him to admit that Macs had their purpose, which he has done on a few occasions (hey, he likes eye candy, tooth loss was inevitable).
So just because Mossberg couldn't get it working or had a tough time with it, doesn't mean it definately sucks. It just means that he had trouble. Given the unit (Linux-based handheld), and his history (Intel/Microsoft cheerleader), the fact that he has trouble with it isn't exactly surprising. (I don't mean to push the conspiracy aspect, only the "this is different than what I'm used to" aspect)
Nor should it be an outright condemnation of the unit, except maybe for sales forces who install/manage their own hardware. I only say that because one of our sales guys managed to disable his modem (and therefore his ability to send/receive email while on the road) after installing a Palm. A *Palm*.
It's not so much the resolution of the hardware conflict, half the battle is getting them to admit that they changed something. (grumble)
But that's a story for another day...
Re:Does it matter? (Score:5, Informative)
What he *does* say in the review, though, is that the Zaurus compares unfavorably with PocketPC devices in terms of battery life, hardware, size, available software and PDA functionality. He's spent time with many Palms, many PocketPCs and now, the Zaurus. Ever think that maybe he knows what he's talking about?
Re:Does it matter? (Score:3, Informative)
Even if he already tested many PDAs there are still big faults in his description: :-)
1. I don't think the UI is complicated. It is indeed very similar to other PDAs. But this is only a personal point of view and not very objective. For nearly every PDA OS I can find somebody who completely loves the UI or hates it more than anyhing else.
2. He wasn't really interested in the available software at all. He only looked at the offical Sharp site but compares the amount of this software to all the Palm/WinCE programs which can be found somewhere in the internet. If he would look at zaurus.sourceforge.net and zauruszone.com he would find some other programs. Also the KDE project begins with porting desktop applications. I can already play Quake and Nethack on the Zaurus!
Additionally every new PDA OS lacks programs. Why had anybody bought thinks like Palm OS or even Windows 95? In the beginning there were no good applications for them? With this in mind you cannot really critisize the lack of software (perhaps when you still use DOS because there are no really good win applications you can
Re:Does it matter? (Score:2)
Follow the standard scientific method. Having tested the hypothesis, revise it according to the data, and test it again. Repeat this cycle of designing according to test results and testing the redesign frequently.
Bruce Tognazzini's books are probably a good introduction to this.
Here's the catch. (Score:3, Interesting)
Take VB or Java/JFC. Not often do you see widely used commercial apps written in either of these. But the amount of "inside"or one-off specialty software written like this is huge. I think this PDA could find a niche in that sort of market. Dont think of it as a product so much a s a PDA "kit" that you have to might have to tweak a little.
Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Developing for Palm (large scale vs. one off) (Score:2)
I'm not saying there's absolutely no buyers for a product like this, but I sincerely doubt that the niche is sufficiently larger than the development costs.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Was to be expected (Score:2, Insightful)
Asking too much of Sharp (Score:2)
Sharp has not been good in the past at releasing new technology items that get wide acceptance. I think you hit it on the head about their rush to market. As their product gets used and they identify bad features, problematic options, etc., they will mature their product like all their others. It takes Sharp time to do this, and their development costs are too huge for their budgets.
"Worship" (Score:2)
The giant penguin image [thinkgeek.com] that stares right at me wants me to vindicate Linux by hacking into Walter Mossberg's email...
Re:"Worship" (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a first iteration product and if it only manages to appeal to the folks here on
Not sure what that guys problem is (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not sure what that guys problem is (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps the Geek Gods should be a little less condecending to us mere mortals.
big deal (Score:3, Funny)
I usually agree with Mossberg... (Score:2, Informative)
WinCE / PocketPC sucked pretty bad too. (Score:4, Insightful)
reading this on my Zaurus now... (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, not many PDAs give you both CF and SD slots. Embedix/Qt is a great OS for the PDA, and I hope it grows and rivals Palm OS and Pocket PC.
Re:reading this on my Zaurus now... (Score:5, Funny)
And a less cumbersome keyboard, by the looks of it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:reading this on my Zaurus now... (Score:2)
By analogy: If I want to stop my car, but working the brakes is extremely difficult (perhaps the pedal is located on the passenger side), it is an inane answer to tell me to just not stop. The pedal's in the wrong damn place!
As a rule of thumb, never tell users to not do something that they want to do but are prevented from it unless it is a _literal_ impossibility. Clearly, it's important to them. Clearly, they're the ones paying for it. Clearly the design must follow _their_ wants and needs. This is like rule number one in UI design.
Re:reading this on my Zaurus now... (Score:2)
Sharp Zaurus (Score:3, Interesting)
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to the minority. Just because we may not want to, some people will. So, one has to decide between marketing for a (possibly unprofitable) niche market or just making something that will work with any Windows laptop so people can carry their outlook address books around.
I applaud Sharp for their work but if this thing is big and clunky, then they should go back to the drawing board.
It's a shame... (Score:2)
The battery life issue seems like a real problem for those who use it frequently. Also, the usability is the most important feature for mainstream acceptance. The fact that it is cluttered and difficult to use only serves to further justify the popular idea that Linux is hard to use and for geeks only (an opinion that is not without merit). The cost of the Zaurus also works against the idea that Linux is cheaper.
It's really a shame that Sharp couldn't have put forward a better, more usable product. As it is, it looks like it will be another black-eye to the public's view of Linux. Could it be that Linux, in its current state is simply too beefy for a lightweight application like a PDA?
The Zaurus rocks! (if ya like that kinda thing) (Score:2, Interesting)
I've also got X installed, but you have to kill the QT desktop before you can launch X
You can also install xcopilot on it (Palm emulator) and run lots of Palm sw. I installed a gnuboy port on it and have tried out a couple of gameboy games. The ones I tried were too slow, I thought. Maybe xmess playing colecovision games will work out, or xmame/zmame with some older arcade units will perform better.
The fact that it runs linux makes it the ideal toy, as it's easy to modify and hack to do whatever you want.
Ethernet should only need drivers... (Score:2)
Although, that loses you the CF slot.
Jon Acheson
Outlook still important (Score:3, Interesting)
I would still like to see a review from a technical magazine/journal/website that I trust. Somewhere that I am comfortable with the clue-level of the reviewer. I'm not saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about, but I usually don't see the most knowledgeable computer/electronics info in the newspaper. The WSJ may be different, but I don't read it, so I must paint with a wide brush.
Re:Outlook still important (Score:2, Informative)
FWIW, Walt Mossberg is probably the most influential tech journalist writing in the mainstream media. He has a very big soapbox that he uses to great affect. He's an advocate for ease of use, rails against products that don't work as advertised (frequently Microsoft's), and isn't afraid to slam a product or offend PR people.
Let's face it, the tech press may be read by CIOs, but the Journal is read by CEOs. And in the world of The Buck Stops Here, being able to point to a Mossberg column and say "look, Walt likes it" goes a long way to selling the bigwigs on a product.
During my time as a Program Manager at Microsoft, when Walt spoke, people listened. Several e-mails from BillG that were the direct result of Walt's WSJ columns made it down the chain of command and led to changes in products.
Re:Outlook still important (Score:2, Interesting)
I found this review [newsforge.com] useful.
Re:Cluelevel (Re:Outlook still important) (Score:2)
Also, posting a review of a product from a clueless user on a techie site like this one may be misguided. That is why I like "review roundup" type of articles, shows a more well-rounded view.
using it now (Score:2, Interesting)
it syncs w/my outlook.
it works with my linksys cf very well.
kbd is very cool.
opera isn't bad.
the reviewr is on crack.
Re:using it now (Score:3, Funny)
like
those
pda
screens!
:)
Reviewer Bias (Score:2, Insightful)
he probably forgot (Score:3, Funny)
Mossberg Reviews - Thorough and Fair (Score:5, Insightful)
This is another review where I think Walt is right on. The Zaurus SL-5500 is making the same mistake made by M$ with their PDA, mainly that the user interface is too complicated. The Palm OS is still the standard for simplicity as far as the GUI is concerned.
I can't speak for the issue of Outlook sync. However, if it's advertised on the box and in the company press release, there should at least be some documentation on how to get it to work.
I hope the word LINUX doesn't scare the average user away from using the product. I'm afraid that poor documentation will only make people fear it more.
If the Linux community wants a broader acceptance of the platform then we have to stop with the attitude that something is good enough because a nerd can figure it out.
Had no problem syncing with Outlook (Score:3, Informative)
In addition to that, for the geeks out there, I have installed sshd, boa (webserver), and a samba server. I also saw Perl and Python for the Zaurus, but I am waiting on my SD memory card before I install too much more. There are many programs out there already that make this a PDA I might actually use, and most of them are Open Source.
There are several good development sites out there: ZaurusZone [zauruszone.com] and sharp's own Developer Site [sharpsec.com]. You can download the kernel for it from Sharp's site and recompile it yourself because they have detailed instructures and supply a link to a gcc cross-compiler for the ARM processor.
In the Zaurus development guide they explain that the easiest way to do development for it is to NFS mount a shared drive onto the Zaurus. That is just cool.
I would totally agree that it is not for suits, but for the geek in me it has been one of the coolest things I have played with in a while.
~Giliath
PDA Death Sentance (Score:5, Insightful)
I know all you Linux users are geeked out by the fact that it runs Linux, but PDAs are about simplicity of use, and compatability. If this unit from Sharp (who, in my opinion has always been a third rate electronics manufacturer) is as big and as clumsy as the reviewer says it is, it has almost zero chance of adoption.
This is a PalmOS and (God help us) WindowsCE market.
Think about the corporate buyer. These guys are conservative. They don't want something not mainstream, and a PDA not running PalmOS or WINCE is NOT mainstream. Nobody wants to get crap from his CEO about the PDA choice. Guess what else, the CEO doesn't give a crap that it runs Linux. All he knows is that his other CEO buddies have WINCE and PalmOS PDAs and wants to know why his company isn't doing what everybody else is.
This market simply doesn't and shouldn't care all that much about what OS the PDA is running. Its a big geek factor to run Linux, but was it really a good choice? Probably not.
Re:PDA Death Sentance (Score:2, Insightful)
What? The guy didn't even mention much about the OS. He was complaining about properties that linux had no control over. So what are you basing your logic of whether it was a good choice to choose linux on? If sharp programs a way to sync with winblows it shouldn't matter what OS their using.
This is a PalmOS and (God help us) WindowsCE market.
Uhh, last I heard, most white collars really don't care what OS is on it, so long as it syncs, functions, is ergunomical, and has some useful proggies. IN FACT, I bet there would be a lot more (GNU?) programs being built for a linux pda, than WindowsCE or PalmOS, given enough time.
Think about the corporate buyer. These guys are conservative.
Oh, you mean like the guys in IBM who chose linux? I won't get into this, but you should never assume what people are or what they'll do, even if your one of them. There's a million reasons that could break that assumption.
just my $0.000002
Re:PDA Death Sentance (Score:3, Insightful)
Depends on your point of view. From the customers point of view, it might not be. After all, they'll either like it or they won't, and they have a choice to whether to use it or not, same as with any OS (except windows on the desktop). However, look at the competition: Windows Pocket PC and PalmOS.
Now the Palm is a mighty fine OS, but it seems to be losing all but the budget market to Microsoft. Palm itself meanwhile is looking shaky, the handspring PDAs didn't take off, and the Palm models are looking increasingly dated and limited.
This could leave the PDA market in the unenviable position of also being dominated by Microsoft, simply through Pocket PC being better. Now whatever you may think of Sharp, and they do seem to have made some dumb mistakes here, they probably don't want to see MS dominate yet another marketplace as it tends to be bad for everybodies profit margins (other than Microsofts of course).
So - they are taking a risk by using Embedix/Qt rather than Pocket PC. As a result, there will be a segment of the populace (reviewers will always be amongst them) who will look down on this decision. After all, where operating systems are concerned not going with the mainstream usually brings the disadvantage of
a) being different and
b) not having as many apps.
However, Sharp is willing to take that risk because it knows that if one day PocketPC was the only viable OS for PDAs it'd be shafted, after all, whenever MS is in need of cash, well just turn the screws on the PDA makers. Why not?
Look - understand one thing: for a long time yet reviewers will always prefer PocketPC/PalmOS over Linux on PDAs for exactly the same reason they poopoohed Windows CE when it first came out: lack of apps, slow, unpolished, first generation etc, what's the advantage over Palm and so on.
Now Windows CE had the advantage when it came out of brand recognition: CEOs went, ooh, windows, we must have it, it's expensive but we'll have an integrated solution from one company. And MS refined the OS, the PocketPC of today is sooo much better than CE when it first came out. And there were no apps at first, but Windows developers found their skills were largely portable and so on.
But you are forgetting that Linux on the PDA is in the same position. It also has brand recognition, for different reasons. Instead of going, ooh, it'll integrate with everything, CEOs might well go, oooh, it'll be cheap, reliable and we'll be free from MS tyranny. They balance out. And right now it needs polish, it's a first generation product - what do you expect? And it doesn't have many apps yet, but they'll be quickly ported, if anything it's easier to port apps for this than for WinCE. Yes - there might be a problem with the apps available being of the geek variety, but I have plenty of non-geek apps available, and at the end of the day it'll be a market motivated by demand.
I'd be highly surprised if people who bought a Zaurus expected all their software to be free. Most won't care, and that means they'll be willing to pay for their software (which is good imho) and that means it won't be long until people figure out they can make a bit on the site porting their Linux apps or writing new apps for Embedix/Qt and selling them. I know I'd be thinking about it if I could afford a Zaurus ;) I don't see any intrinsic reason why Linux PDAs should fail.... they can easily compete with PocketPC, the only problem right now is that PocketPC has a head start. But then that was true of Palm wasn't it?
Re:PDA Death Sentance (Score:2)
Turn off the Linux miopia, and realize that 95+% of the world doesn't care about OS. They just want it to work, and if that's Linux, fine. If that's Windows, fine. They REALLY don't care about this. They want their stuff to work and to have tons of cool programs to run. (And no, Nethack, and encryption programs are not "cool" for the real world user) The Zaurus doesn't fit that bill, and the fact that it runs Linux is incidental to the entire issue.
The zealotry shown here always amazes me. I like Linux. I like competition. But I tell you what, Linux is not the magical peg that fits every shape hole.
The Zaurus is Awesome (Score:2, Informative)
Walter is on the Pot (Score:2, Insightful)
But for the "consumer" wall street crowd.
I have the Wireless LAN Compact Flash card - sweet. the MAME port - yes Frogger and MsPacMan. the keyboard is actually better than the RIM Blackberry version. I can view/edit MS Word and Excel and even view Powerpoint slides. make sure you upgrade the memory though for this. I can play mp3, watch movies and do voice recordings. I have synched with my Palm and Outlook books w/o a problem. The TFT screen is the best I have seen on a PDA to date.
I guess we just want to make sure Walter files his 1099. hehe....
seriously Walter - what are you smoking???
Sad But True... (Score:4, Insightful)
His second point is that by using a completely new operating system, they lock out users from the thousands of existing Palm and Windows CE programs. Once again, we have the "no apps for it, so nobody buys it, so nobody programs apps for it" circle.
Palm managed to overcome that by providing most of the useful features (like syncing with Outlook) out of the box...and with the sheer coolness factor of owning a PDA.
Microsoft overcame that simply by taking the loss necessary to keep their handhelds on the market until their market share got bigger. And by adding features to Windows CE devices that Palm didn't want to, like media players.
Sharp didn't serve its customers well by putting Linux on this device.
Re:Sad But True... (Score:2)
What Sharp is attempting is to not just be an also-ran and put MS WinCE(PPC2002) on this or become another PalmOS device with limited hardware resources. Yes they don't come out of the gate with tons of apps but they provided an open platform by going with Linux, Java, and Qt(kinda).
I think it would help if they were shipping a bootable CDROM with the device which would run Linux and the developement tools without needing to be installed on the PC. Just mounting a HD for saving the source code. Even MS Windows developers should see how easy it is to develope for the Z. $2000 for a comercial license to develope is too high IMHO but at least the prototypes can be done cheaply.
Anyway, Sharp has dared to provide a pocket PC that doesn't require a MS tax and leaves the door open to developers and users. Look where the Windows based pocket PCs are today? It's been 4 years and they have less than 20% marketshare. And I know one company who bought 5 just to make sure one worked for the demos. Linux was a good choice. IMHO
LoB
Re:Sad But True... (Score:2)
But, if you wish, you can remove this layer and play with the Linux underpinnings. Sounds like a plan to me. Of course, this plan would require licensing fees to Palm...
A couple problems with this (Score:3, Insightful)
Secondly, it doesn't allow the user to run their conduits, so many of these applications would be crippled at best.
Thirdly, the emulators are not perfect from an emulation point of view and also generally have problems from an interface stand point.
Re:Sad But *NOT* True... (Score:2)
Seriously, the fact that there isn't a large software library of easy-to-install titles _is_ a strike against this device. So is the fact that most Linux apps aren't very user-friendly, which is going to run quite counter to customer expectations.
On the other hand, writing apps for this little device might be a good way to learn GUI programming and good interface design.
PDA hard drives? (Score:2)
Windows XP personal firewall... (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows XP has a personal firewall that is built in and enabled by default without the users knowledge.
Put two and two together....
This poor guy just needed to turn off his firewall, becouse if it is turned on the Zaurus can not sync.
And, yes, I own a Zaurus.
Re:Windows XP personal firewall... (Score:2, Informative)
Zaurus Intellisync Manual (Score:4, Interesting)
It also seems that there is mention of Outlook in quite a few places in the same manual... I picked this up after skimming the downloadable PDF for about 2 minutes.
It would seem the problem here is not the product, but instead a dumbass reviewer that
What's a shame is the number of people that will never look at the Zaurus because if this column.
Not for the fat fingered! (Score:3, Informative)
I seriously have loved this thing since I got my hands on it. That is saying a lot since I have hated every single PDA I have ever had before this. I think the keyboard is great, but it is definitely not for the fat fingered user. One thing that you can not tell from the pictures is that the keys are a hard plastic, not soft rubber. At first I made the mistake of trying to punch them with the stylus. It slipped off for the most part. So I went with the double thumbs technique that is popular with the text messaging via cell phone crowd. Now I can rip right through the keys, oh and they have a very nice tactile click when pressed. I could seriously go on all day about this product. But here are some cool links to an open source version of the Rom image that removes the Jeode JVM and Opera (which has now been replaced with Konqueror). I just have to assume the guy from the WSJ is a fat fingered dolt.
[sharpsec.com]
Sharp Developers Program
The OpenZaurus Program [zauruszone.com]
Program Overview [zauruszone.com]
OpenZuarus Downloads [sourceforge.net]
Sharp's web site (Score:2)
Great job, guys. Make a PDA for techies and don't even let the techies on your web site to read about it.
Re:Sharp's web site (Score:2)
Great Device (Score:3, Informative)
They keyboard took some getting used to, but honestly I can't think of a better solution for the size this has to be. Thumbing is fine and fast.
And it has a real browser that understands real HTML and CSS. The (adjustable) scaling is amazing - I can read two columns of NY Times w/ no trouble.
Being a Linux box makes a huge difference. Screw PDA-sync - this thing does *rsync*!
Plus it was amazingly easy to install the ftpfs kernel module and have instant ftp-in-file-browser. Try that on your PocketPC!
ONLY 28 APPS???? This thing has a JVM budy! (Score:2)
Furthermore, from all accounts I've read, it is very easy to develop apps for the Zaurus and this should lead to an explosion of new programs (that is if enough linux geeks are still employed and can afford this thing). His gripes about the lack of apps is just nonsensical given how long this thing has been out.
As for syncing with his Laptop, I'm more inclined to blame the new laptop than the Zaurus. Many other people have reported successful syncing with Outlook. Did this reporter try a different machine? Did he ever think to?
Really it just looks like this guy is a Palm bigot. He wants a lightweight address book which I will admit, the Palm does excel at. His reference about the iPaq's size is also derogatory (or even Compaq's jumbo $499 iPAQ 3700 ). Really, I don't think he wants or cares about any kind of full functioned portable computing device. And that's what the Zaurus is trying to provide. He wants an organiser and was probably right in saying the Palm is a better one. The Zaurus though, is definitely a better handheld computer.
Walter Mossberg -- I trust his reviews... (Score:2, Insightful)
He's given honest, reliable, reviews in the past so I see no reason to consider this to be a hyped up Ziff-style garbage piece. After seeing so many articles that just aren't well researched, I'll take one that is -- even if the review is not positive.
On the other hand, this is a first release for a fairly complex device, so I'd expect a few changes in the hardware and quite a few software changes. If they come gratis to the current Zaurus owners (and those soon to be), that would be good thing. That said, there are trade offs in any design so I don't expect all the gripes WM had to be addressed at all.
My main concern with Sharp is thier web page rejecting perfectly valid browsers. That alone has cooled me to considering a Zaurus myself.
Great for me... (Score:2, Informative)
I'm loving it. The color is vibrant and web sites render exactly as they would on my PC (just need to scroll a bit to see the whole thing). The keyboard was a little clumsy at first, but I'm getting used to it and find it MUCH faster and more reliable than Palm's graffiti. (I have hope that eventually I'll be able to touch-type on it.)
The built-in apps are great for my needs. My only complaint is that the mail client doesn't have an option to authenticate to an outgoing SMTP server (haven't checked yet to see whether there's an update or another client available). Even the games are pretty entertaining when I'm stuck somewhere with time to kill.
The beautiful part, however, is that you don't NEED the cradle to sync. Just slide in the wireless card and ftp your files to it. (This is great for development, letting me deploy to it through a build script instead of a custom app). Plus, it runs PersonalJava -- a much more featureful version than the KVM on my Palm V. Basically, I just write against Java 1.1.8, ftp the class files over, and run them normally.
The battery life can be as short as an hour if you're banging on it with full brightness, but it's easy to plug it in without a cradle, and extra batteries are only $25, so there are ways around that if you're unwilling to dim the screen.
Of course, now I'm dreaming of widespread, open 802.11 networks so I can be fully connected everywhere....
It's different, therefore it's wrong! (Score:2)
- The keyboard is more clumsy than a foldout one, true. But it's comparable to a Blackberry (I have both). I think it's more a case that it's more difficult to hold the thing while typing than it is to hold a Blackberry.
- 64Meg will allow it to serve as a fair MP3 player. Maybe it's just that a WSJ guy doesn't want one of those.
- It's got both SD AND CF meaning that you can bump the storage with SD while leaving CF open for some cool peripherals (like modem, wireless, or net connection). Personally I'm drooling over the idea of having a small toolbox of CF cards that will get me net connected in whatever the most convenient way is (particularly that net socket where I can sit in a meeting and plug myself into the T1 at work).
- True, most regular users will never care about Linux. BUT, if you were to track the number of apps for Palm, versus Wince, versus this thing, I bet you'll find that the number for this thing will grow much faster because of the easy porting. Hancom already has a full office suite for it in evaluation stages (something that Palm still is barely succeeding at). And does anyone other that MS themselves succeed at porting their stuff to Wince? Which version of Wince
:)?
- The average Palm still does not have the screen resolution that this thing does, which leads to a much better interface as well as cool browsing with Opera.
- Yes, it is bigger and heavier than a Palm. Personally I don't care, given that it is still drastically smaller than a laptop (and the comparison is becoming more valid because this thing is powerful enough to run Emacs and a Java compiler, so I really can do work on it). I remember when the PalmV first came out, at the same time as teh III, and everybody was like "What's cool about the V?" and the answer was "Lighter." That's it. And then everybody went and wrapped theirs in that big metal case to protect it.
I hope it takes off, I really do. I'm not holding my breath. But I'll support it where I can. If it can survive for 6months or so I think that the number of solid apps for it will take hold and it will become a very viable choice for people.Re:It's different, therefore it's wrong! (Score:2, Insightful)
I get the feeling the thing uses Linux so you want it to succeed so much. This guy doesn't like it and makes some perfectly valid points as to why not and you're ready to thrash him.
Syncing to Outlook or anything else on a PC is not a pipe dream - it should be the one task this thing does best (I own an iPaq and I hate Microsoft's ActiveSync, yet it does the job). It's not "unreasonable" to expect a PDA to do that at all.
And then they just fulfill their own expectations by being too critical of things that they knew Palm and Wince did better (like the whole sync to Outlook thing).
The dude is thinking as a consumer, because that's what they pay him to do. He's not looking that the PDA from the POV of a 1337 kernel h^xx0r.
Is it possible to look at it from a different angle?
Not really. This is an end-consumer product for people who buy PDAs. There's no "other angle" regardless of how much you want one to exist.
64Meg will allow it to serve as a fair MP3 player. Maybe it's just that a WSJ guy doesn't want one of those.
64MB is pathetic for an MP3 player.
the comparison is becoming more valid because this thing is powerful enough to run Emacs and a Java compiler, so I really can do work on it...
I hope Sharp finds three of four hundred thousand people like you, although finding them among the "I want free everything" crowd and then asking them to shell out north of $500 is going to prove difficult. Otherwise this thing will be DOA.
Consumer embedded Linux has a long way to go to catch up to WinCE and a longer way still to catch up to Palm. It's not going to happen overnight.
Re:It's different, therefore it's wrong! (Score:2)
I wouldn't say I thrashed him at all. Actually wrote him a nice email, too, arguing my points. In short, I think that he basically said "Stay away from version1.0 unless you're an early adopter", which is not exactly brain science.
Syncing to Outlook or anything else on a PC is not a pipe dream - it should be the one task this thing does best
That is your personal metric, not the world's. I never sync mine, ever. I back it up, yes, but I never "trade" updates between a desktop application and my PDA. I play games. I handle appointments, addresses, and so on. Time and expense tracking. I don't even need development tools, so I won't try to play the geek card. But I bet the majority of your home users never truly sync, either -- I think they just back up.
64MB is pathetic for an MP3 player.
A quick scan of Amazon shows a large number of 64M players still on the market, so it's far from pathetic. They average about $100-$150. You're getting that for free with this device, so take it off the $500 you paid and now the PDA side is only $350, which makes it cheaper than a Palm515.
As I said in my original post, I'm not holding my breath, but I am most definitely an early adopter and hardcore geek, and I will evangelize this thing just like I evangelized my Palm when it first came out and my Blackberry now. It's what I can do. I can't buy a few hundred thousand of them. But I can hopefully influence a few people who can also influence a few people...
Does lots of things -- poorly (Score:2)
The interface is poor. The handwriting recognition is relatively good, however. The applications aren't nearly full-featured enough, and aren't geared towards consumers.
Plus, there are standardization issues to take into account. The majority of PDAs in the market are PalmOS-based. Wouldn't it make sense if I could transfer data to and from a Palm with my Zaraus? Why isn't data stored and transmitted in industry-standard formats for cross-platform compatibility?
If the Zaurus, and Linux-based PDAs in general, are to succeed then issues related to consumers need to be addressed. Yes, I'm a geek and like having a command prompt available to me from my PDA. What normal consumer would ever want that? What about security issues? As more and more users begin connecting wirelessly with their PDAs security needs to move to the forefront. Access on the Zaurus is done as root, with no password. Nice and secure, huh?
The Zaurus is good as an alpha-quality Linux PDA, but it is certainly not ready for primetime. There are technical and usability issues that need to be addressed, and Sharp (and Trolltech, developers of the Qtopia interface that is used on the Zaurus) seems to be ignoring these issues or not doing enough to correct them.
Re:Does lots of things -- poorly (Score:2)
The first thing everybody did when they got a Palm was to replace Launcher with something that had tabs, the ability to move stuff around, and so on. On a Palm interface you can't even get a list of your own documents without going into the app they are for. This thing even has a Documents tab. The clock and battery life are displayed all times. You can multitask and have several apps open at once. Using the mousy wheel thing I can even navigate and launch apps with one thumb, something that's not easy on a Palm. What is poor, exactly? Sure, you can't delete or move around ROM apps. I prefer that, though -- ROM apps means apps that don't take up the memory that they advertise as being for my use.
Plus, there are standardization issues to take into account. The majority of PDAs in the market are PalmOS-based. Wouldn't it make sense if I could transfer data to and from a Palm with my Zaraus? Why isn't data stored and transmitted in industry-standard formats for cross-platform compatibility?
Have you even tried it? You can. When my friend and I got ours the first thing we did was to beam business cards and calendar events back and forth. No problem! You might notice that the apps in the Zaurus are storing their data in XML -- something that is far more industry standard than anything in PDB format.
Yes, I'm a geek and like having a command prompt available to me from my PDA. What normal consumer would ever want that? What about security issues?
Wait...so, because most people don't want it, it shouldn't even be offered as an option? I thought we were always about having lots of choice. If that's the case, then I'd like to suggest a whole slew of XP features that I think suck, so Microsoft can please take them out because they must not be useful to anyone.
The Zaurus is good as an alpha-quality Linux PDA, but it is certainly not ready for primetime. There are technical and usability issues that need to be addressed, and Sharp (and Trolltech, developers of the Qtopia interface that is used on the Zaurus) seems to be ignoring these issues or not doing enough to correct them.
There are numerous ROM updates from Sharp already. Sharp sponsors a page for developers to advertise their applications (not just a perk for developers, but good for consumers to see what is available). Are you referring to the physical machine? It's not like they can keep tweaking that -- those changes have to be revolutions not evolutions.
Not a very competent tech writer IMHO (Score:3, Insightful)
It CAN run Palm OS software (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh, and the reason why he couldn't sync it with XP is because of XP's built-in firewall blocking the port the Zaurus uses. So his problem wasn't the Zaurus, it was XP.
Demand (Score:2)
Page 23 of UsersGuide (Score:2, Informative)
"For details on synchronization with a PC, etc., see the on-line operation manuals (on the CD-ROM) for the PC link software."
Also Intellisync Manual PDF [sharp-usa.com]
Outlook filter/import/sync ability (Score:2)
Seems to me that linux is dead on the corporate desktop, and stuck as a geek desktop/server OS, when it comes to x86 PCs. (In general here, don't take this out of context)
Lets Compare Hardware.. (Score:2)
I wanted to 'go mobile' this year. So, with the iPaq (which I bought at $500), I bought a PCMCIA adaptor (which greatly thickens the handheld) for $100 used (Retails for $149) so I could use my PCMCIA Ethernet card. Well, when I got it, I found out that it doesn't support ALL PCMCIA ethernet cards. So I would have had to buy another one. The supported cards cost in excess of $100. That would have totaled $700, just to attempt to surf the net from my easy chair. Add an additional amount for a wireless card and access point for true mobility.
I sold it all to someone at work and got 100% back on my investment ($600).
Took the money, bought a developer's version of the Zaurus @ $399, a CF Ethernet card for $100, AND a 64MB MMC memory card for $75 and I was 'going mobile' so to speak from my easy chair. I even had plenty of room to DL files off of MP3.com or IUMA. The remaining $25 went to a good meal at a local restaurant.
The apps sync fine on my Win98 setup at work. The Sync button even works as it should IF USING THE Intellisync Software. I haven't tested the other sync software that came with it.
As for the amount of apps, give it time. The first Palm apps were few and far between when it appeared on the market. The Zaurus has a Java VM and you can write/compile Java apps right on the Zaurus. There's plenty of Java stuff to tinker with.
Great Calculator (Score:2, Informative)
It runs Personal Java so tons of software is available for it. As for the Calculator NeoCal (a free d/l) it has tons of functions including Financial functions. You'd think that a guy writes for the WSJ would be interested in those functions.
Under Windows2000 I've had no problems Syncing with Outlook. Granted the button doesn't seem to work, so you have to do it from the software. I've got the Developers version (5000d) so perhaps it works for the Consumer version (5500).
The keyboard is highly usable, and lots of fun to use with BASH.
NeoCal [hudren.com] is a cool little calculator it Supports Algebraic and RPN. Functions are broken up into Standard, Financial, Scientific, Statistical, Programmer and Conversion.
Zaurus isn't ready for general consumers. (Score:5, Interesting)
* There are "Mystery Meat" buttons in nearly every application. Doing something like adding or editing a contact in the address book is made frustrating because you have to tap on a tiny graphical button that you *think* might be what you want rather than a textual pulldown menu that makes sense. (This one of the biggest annoyances. Software should be functional and easy to understand before it's made to look pretty)
* Even doing something that should be simple like changing your timezone is done with an overcomplicated application with no help of any kind (You see a screen with a world map, and you have to *guess* where your city is located by tapping on the worldmap to set the timezone correctly).
* The rotation app doesn't change the orientation of qtopia itself, only the applications running under qtopia.
* You have to basically reboot whenever you install a new program for it to show up on the desktop.
* Bootup time from a reset takes almost 1 min compared to just seconds on CE or PalmOS. (I wouldn't have cared about bootup time if I didn't need to restart the damn thing every time I install a program)
* The device seems to forget its backlight settings from time to time. (backlight turns off then won't turn on again unless you go into the light and power app to set it).
* Clicking on an icon with the stylus then moving it just a tiny amount while your trying to open an app brings up an annoying window (this comes up accidentily all the time for me).
* Seems to be very dependent on having network/internet access to install software. (This is a BAD thing on a handheld)
* Sure, it has productivity software, but it's far too limited in functionality to really be useful. Or maybe it is functional, but I just don't understand it. (have I mentioned the "Mystery Meat" factor?)
* Updating the rom is time consuming and requires extra hardware to do. (example: Updating the operating system on the Zaurus requires a blank compact flash card and a bit of work (not that I mind hacking around, but we're talking about a non-techie user standpoint here). Installing an OS update on an ipaq or similar device requires no special hardware and is fairly effortless. I've found that even installing linux and qtopia on an ipaq and making an update is easier than making the same update on the Zaurus)
Basically, the Zaurus is probably good for the tech croud/linux geek, but definately needs a lot more work before it's ready for consumption by the general public or to compete with other handhelds IMHO.
Read the Amazon reviews - its a geek toy (Score:4, Interesting)
Although most people who bought a Zaurus love it, including fellow poster TechnoLust [slashdot.org](read his journal), the ones that don't complain about the Linux OS - saying they prefer Windows or Palm. Hey, some people like a little handholding with their handheld.
The people who bought it because it runs Linux all seem to love it. Personally, the idea of a wireless handheld that runs bash and can ssh into my network is irresistible. I'm buying one, soon!
Good for research, bad for everyday use (Score:2, Interesting)
My company does some "pervasive computing" research. In many situations it's convenient to use an iPAQ because they're quite powerful, even though the UI sucks. (Occasionally we've even done prototypes by hiding an iPAQ running Linux *inside* another piece of plastic.)
We've found that the Zaurus actually runs Java better than the iPAQ (the widgets come out nicer and it seems to suffer fewer drawing bugs). I also think the UI is marginally nicer than Pocket PC.
But these are all just in situations where we need a lot of horsepower and a really nice screen. For day to day use a Palm gets the job done best.
P.S. If you're curious, here are some pages about two projects that we've used iPAQs for:
Personal Information Portal (very out of date) [maya.com]
Personal Universal Controller (with CMU) [cmu.edu] We've tried the Zaurus on the latter and it works much better.
AWFUL Battery Life (Score:2, Interesting)
I was at JavaOne this past week where they were selling the Zaurus and the Linksys 802.11 card at a pretty steep discount. They had access points all around the Moscone center so you could access the 'net and participate in a programming contest they held.
One of the very first things I noticed about the Zaurus was the the battery life is pitiful. The freshly, fully, properly charged removable battery lasted about 20-30 minutes when using the wireless card for internet access. Battery life without the wireless card installed wasn't much better. What am I supposed to do with a PDA that lasts 30 minutes?
I saw a Zarus... and didn't like it (Score:2)
At first glance, it was impressive. Opera browser, terminal, slide-out keyboard, etc. However, I ultimately got turned off.
1. The keyboatd is very difficult to use because it is so tiny (and I have big hands). This is just a personal turn-off, though.
2. The apps arenot very responsive. They have to be "launched". Some can be cached, but not all of them can be at once. This is because the Embedix (the embedded Linux) does the same thing a PocketPC does. It parititons the RAM into storage and runtime RAM.
3. Its just a miniaturized computer, not a PDA. (This is another Personal turn-off, though, because I believe a PDA should be more of a PDA, not necessarily a computer)
This is sure to start another flame war, but I was really hoping Linux-based PDAs could do more to breaktha paradigm that a PDA should be a small computer. So far, only the Sharp Wizards and PalmOS devices have managed to do this, though (i.e. no partitioned RAM, etc.)
Linux PDA's suck--they're not blocks of wood (Score:4, Insightful)
Any real UI designer is going to tell you that you must always design the interface and work out the user interaction before a single line of code is ever written. The same goes with a PDA, and then you have to add "before you ever design the hardware" to that provision.
One must also consider that PDA's and desktops PC's have an entirely different set of design constraints for their interfaces. One constraint is size: A type of widget that is perfectly clickable with a mouse at its 40x40 pixel desktop PC size is a target that is nearly impossible to hit at a 5x5 with a stylus and should not be used on a handheld just because it is familiar to someone who has used a desktop pc. Another PDA design constraint is time: people using PC's accept badly designed interfaces because they plan half a day around kludging their way through their task. People accept that computers are awkward and slow to use, and are able to plan they way around it. People using PDA's often don't have the luxury to plan when they're going to use their technology. They might have 20 seconds and not any more to get down an important phone number. My point is that the laws of physics for desktop machines and for PDA's are entirely different. Anyone who is too much of a clueless newbie (like many of the failed linux PDA developers) to understand this is really nothing more than marketplace cannon-fodder.
I will admit I haven't used a Sharp Zaurus, but from just looking at the layout of the buttons and looking at how the TrollTech embedded interface is designed (i.e. mirroring a full-size desktop interface) I can pretty much say that Sharp/Trolltech is guilty of the same thing that killed the Agenda Vr3: "We'll design the hardware and the basic user interface first and worry about creating the interface later." What Sharp and Trolltech really need to make the Zaurus succeed is a good block of wood.
People call the reviewer clueless. They say "he doesn't take the time to learn thing x or adapt himself to thing y". The real clueless newbies who don't want to learn are linux programmers who refuse to learn how to design usable interfaces for PDA's. Any attempt to deny the truth of this point will only further prove the truth of this post.
Things I've found wrong with the Zaurus (so far) (Score:3, Informative)
I agree with a lot of the review (especially the screen being really nice) but have two other additional gripes:
1) The palm-like handwriting recognition doesn't seem to work well, and also seems to "lag" while I am drawing out the strokes. It's a good idea to trace the strokes to see what I wrote, but it doesn't fee responsive. Some of the bad recognition could be me just being used to the Palm interface.
2) (Big problem) I'm not sure I should blame Zaurus for this really but... the wireless 802.11b CF card they sold with the Zaurus at the show has a serious issue. When in place, you cannot remove the stylus!! Good thing I always carry a Palm so I had easy access to a stylus. I guess in a way I can blame them for not moving the CF card a little over to the side anticipating things like the wireless CF card (which it does have drivers for already).
My other thoughts are that with the CF card it seemed to drain power rather quickly (possibly even while the device was off?), and that I found using the keyboard awkward while holding the device - also slower than grafitti.
Re:To dumb (Score:2)
Re:To dumb (Score:2, Insightful)
Even better, let's not allow all those people "who dont know about PDAs" to use PDAs at all. This way we are guaranteed to only have reviews praising things just because they have an L*word associated with them. Forget about the fact that the average shipping volume on all those Zauri and Yopis will be approx. two dozens.
Re:This is a tech review? (Score:2)
Re:Play fair... (Score:2)
He is 100% right: If the thing doesn't simply plug in, install, and sync flawlessly, then it's a screwed up product. If the company couldn't insure that it would do this on any random PC platform, then they don't care enough!
Way too many people on
Re:Play fair... (Score:2)
Two things:
A) It didn't work for this one guy. Most companies have an IT department, or at least bring in consultants, to deploy new technology.
B) You apparantly don't work in an IT-related field. Things almost never work flawlessly, unless you just took the computer, the OS and the PDA out of the box. This guy has done reviews for dozens of PDA's (he boo'd most)...maybe (scenerio ahead) he uses the same laptop for all of them, and has a dozen conflicting drivers/bugs laying around? Maybe XP is the cause of the problem (since I've seen breand new modems and printers fail with it on the first try). Or, maybe the PDA does suck. You can't say it automatically sucks because one person's computer wouldn't sync. The symptom he's described fits perfectly with Palm V's and Palm M100's, and Blackberry's (RIM 957) I've installed and had to fix.
My only issue with the review is that it didn't really say much. I know now the battery sucks, and that some guy with a PalmOS fetish didn't like it. It has about as much cred as a Slashdot post.
Re:Play fair... (Score:2)
Actually, my watch sucks. I plugged it into my laptop, and nothing happened. Ok, it tells time perfectly and as it turns out my previous watch had changed settings that made the transition flawed, but I still blame it on the watch.
In other words, it does. It functions out of the box perfectly, the same way my watch, DVD player and VCR do: by not interacting with every broken computer in the world. Should a PDA work perfectly, and sync with Outlook on the first try? Absolutely. Should we blame the PDA that some guy who beats up his computer and uses Outlook couldn't sync them? I don't have the answer, nor does anyone but the individuals troubleshooting his problem. If it turns out his computer wasn't broken in some way, his review is accurate...but I've dealt with way too many users trying to email a 50MB attachment over dialup then complaining "outlook is broken" to automatically assume the new hardware is bad.
Didn't anyone else stop to wonder why we know it will sync with outlook, but just magically not for this guy? Maybe his computer is broken? Maybe the PDA he got is defective? I've seen non-techies set them up, so it isn't that it takes kernel hacking or anything...