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USMC Shows Off New Toys 132

Posted by michael from the toys-for-tots dept.
jonerik writes "And speaking of the future of unmanned combat, Wired today has this article on several new toys being developed for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Dragon Eye is a small remote-controlled airplane which can be disassembled and carried in a field pack. The Dragon Runner is a miniature camera-equipped wheeled truck about the size of a shoebox which can be sent into dangerous areas as a scout. The Dragon Warrior is a small unmanned helicopter which looks like a toilet seat with wings. Perhaps most intriguing is a device unofficially dubbed the RoboLobster, which skitters around on eight mechanical legs, detecting and disarming mines. Although the Dragon Eye is scheduled for deployment next year, the other three devices are still in the development stage."
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USMC Shows Off New Toys

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  • The Dragon Runner is a miniature camera-equipped wheeled truck about the size of a shoebox which can be sent into dangerous areas as a scout.

    What's the betting that the Web will soon be swamped with pop-ups offering to sell us the X10.Com version of these?

  • Attack (Score:3, Funny)

    by Krapangor ( 533950 ) on Saturday May 25, 2002 @08:11AM (#3583710) Homepage
    The Dragon Warrior is a small unmanned helicopter which looks like a toilet seat with wings

    I don't want to know how it attacks the enemy.
    BTW: Is the rumor true that the Trud Report [slashdot.org] has signed up with the army ?

  • Windows-based? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ZigMonty ( 524212 ) <slashdotNO@SPAMzigmonty.postinbox.com> on Saturday May 25, 2002 @08:13AM (#3583715)
    And the plane will pretty much fly on its own. After a few commands are given to a Windows-based navigation program, the eye will pilot itself using a global positioning system.

    Nooooooooo...

    [Insert obligatory BSOD joke]

    • "If a Marine can use (Microsoft) Word, he can get this plane to fly."
      • I'd like to introduce that Marine to the Word document from the corporate office last year that crashed Word upon opening.
      • Can you tell the Dragon Eye to look for "Taliban" without additional windows to spell check it?
      • This device contains restricted encryption technology and is not for export.
      • The Dragon Eye can not be shot down because that is considered technology which can break a protection device. The J.A.G. is ready to prosecute violators.
      • "Sarge, I need your credit card so I can get Tech Support to tell me the workaround so I can land the Eye. They already said it's a known problem that will be fixed in the next major revision."
      • The Dragon Eye weighs five pounds. The Microsoft Field Control Interface Device weighs eighteen pounds and uses a gallon of gasoline an hour.
      • "Sarge, I need your credit card so I can get Tech Support to tell me the workaround so I can land the Eye. They already said it's a known problem that will be fixed in the next major revision."

        If a Marine called another Marine "Sarge" he probably wouldn't get a chance to call tech support. In the Marine Corps, "Sarge" is derogatory.

        And even so, the complaint to tech support would still have to be made from the circa 1950's era radios, and as such would run out of batteries before any useful information could be gleaned.



    • Even worse...

      He added, "If a Marine can use (Microsoft) Word, he can get this plane to fly."

      Does that include dodging all the crashes? Perhaps they should have left out that (Microsoft) part and just left it as Word, as in any generic Word Processing office tool.

  • NO replacement for human bravery (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yeOldeSkeptic ( 547343 ) on Saturday May 25, 2002 @08:22AM (#3583734)


    The escape of Osama Bin Laden and the invisibility
    of the Abu Sayyaff in the jungles of the Philippines
    show one thing. No amount of high tech weaponry
    and no surfeit of surveillance equipment can beat
    a human on the ground. After several months of
    scrutinizing the tiny island of Basilan, using
    satellites, aircraft and what not, no trace
    of the kidnapped Burnhams have been detected.
    The Abu Sayyaff and their hostages have effectively
    vanished.


    As the US Marine Corps continues to progress
    towards its vision of the modern warrior, I
    hope it remembers that human brains and
    courage is still more valuable than all the
    modern technology in the world.

    • How could this help to find Osama? Fly the plane into his little caves?
    • Since General Charles Krulak kick started the heavy modernization a few years ago, the Marine Corps has been holding to the concept of "Equip the man, not man the equipment". The Marine Corps philosophy is that all the weapons and equipment they use exists for one reason and one reason alone- Get the infantry into a position where they can do their thing and blow apart anything that faces them.
    • You obviously haven't heard of next year's project: "I Can't Believe It's Not Human Bravery!" the human bravery substitute in a can.

      Now, these results are purely preliminary, but in early field testing 9 out of 10 guerilla soldiers, terrorists, and hostage-takers couldn't tell the difference!

      Folgers Defense Contracting is also working on a crystalline substitute of some kind.
    • I agree, there is no substitute for a man on the ground. However, an officer on the ground is aided if he has a collapsible airplane that he can send over an enemy position to scout it before he commits his (or now, her) command to that position. Ditto for the Dragon Runner. The Dragon Warrior's uses are scouting (for areas a fixed-wing plane can't enter) and sighting missiles, another job a fixed-wing aircraft can't do. Also, the "RoboLobster" will almost always beat a man at its simple job--find and detect mines. Humans alone only have one way to do this--trial and error--and that can be quite costly for a small unit.

      In short, none of these are meant to replace a soldier on the ground--they are merely there to help him.
    • I guess no one ever told you about atomic weapons, the end of the war with Japan, and the cold war.
    • The Marine's perspective on technology can be inferred by their description of their combat knife: It has zero electronics and zero moving parts, it is the most reliable weapon you will carry.

      The Marines are very unlikely to lose the proper perspective that the basic Marine rifleman is their most important weapon. As an organization they are extremely mindful of the fact that the character of their people and the training of their people are their most important assets. Historically they have done a good job introducing new technology while keeping their perspective.

      For example one of the most important new technologies in modern warfare has been aviation. The Marines embraced aviation but adopted the perspective that Marine aviation exists to help grunts. To become a pilot in the Marines you must first prove yourself as a rifle platoon commander. You may sign up to become a pilot but you start your career going to Officer Candidate School at Quantico where you will learn to be a grunt and how to effectively command grunts.
  • ... DragonBall with super-killah mode called DragonBallZ!

    No one can stand on your way now, ha!

  • The Dragon Warrior is a small unmanned helicopter which looks like a toilet seat with wings.

    What kind of toilet seats do you have? And...huh, where are the wings? IMHO, that [akamai.net] looks very much like an helicopter.

  • Rumour has it there is also a handheld missile called the Dragon Punch which features voice activation. Soldiers should extend their hands towards their enemies, palms out and joined at the wrist, and loudly yell "ah-DOOOH-ken!" to launch the distinctive blue projectile.

    However, the device has been found only to work with Super-Saiyans. Researchers are currently looking at ways to increase the KI of soldiers....

    (OK OK I'm mixing animes ... shoot me :) )

  • Noise Issues (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sheriff_p ( 138609 )
    Sounds a bit noisy to me, personally. I know I'd get pretty suspicious if I was a soldier and saw one coming towards me. Plus, I'd probably take aim at it - I hope they're cheap.
  • These new toys are great, but the challenge will be to get these "18 and 19 year old" grunts (I use the term respectfully) to actually use them in battle.

    Unless the Marine Corps. has changed recently, no self-respecting Marine will want to be dicking around with an RC car when they are in the middle of combat.

    Nevertheless, I applaud the Marines for using technology to its fullest in the battlefield.

    • Bring on the force sword! I'm astonished they have not got around to inventing this one yet.
      Once they get those we'll all be joining up.
    • The Marine Corps already fields UAVs. It is likely that these goodies will be fielded to reconnasaince units and the already existing UAV squadrons.

      Don't worry too much, the Marine Corps is updating the full spectrum of combat gear, from the socks Marines wear(not joking) to their ambhibious armored vehicles and their fighters.
    • I am not quite sure of your definition of "self-respecting". If one is to truly respect oneself you should do whatever it takes to protect ones physical body. If you feel like you, or whatever son or daughter you wish to send to be killed, will have self-respect by yelling gung ho and going over the hill blind...(It is just not Marine-Like to mess around with those RC car..computer things) go right ahead.

      Personally I would prefer to have the most amount of information possible before I entered the surreal very short moments of combat. Combat almost always falls into the military term of "hurry up and wait". Intelligence (knowledge of the enemy) always trumps bravado.

      "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." [brainyquote.com]

      General George S. Patton
    • Actually they're going to pack in RC Pro-Am with the Dragon Eye so it'll be entertaining enough for the jarheads.
  • So which one is the Second Variety?

  • Kind of makes you wonder... (Score:5, Funny)

    by pjdoland ( 99640 ) <`pjdoland' `at' `pjdoland.com'> on Saturday May 25, 2002 @08:53AM (#3583792) Homepage
    Doesn't the USMC run "Toys for Tots?"

  • Wave of the Future (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Saturday May 25, 2002 @08:54AM (#3583794) Homepage
    It looks like technology is starting to catch up with science fiction. When I was a soldier, I wished that someone would invent a small, remote controlled, video camera that could fly like a helicopter. I was never a big fan of detecting the presence of the enemy by getting shot.
    • The problem with better weapons is that they cut both ways. The US military may be ahead in the applications of this kind of thing right now, but they're leveraging existing technology, a lot of which is available off the shelf - microcontrollers, MEMS accelerometers and gyroscopes, and standard RC gear. How long until terrorists or guerillas are using small unmanned helicopters, planes and cars to deliver explosives inside secure facilities, or to assassinate world leaders?
  • What about the Dragon's Breath (a self-propelled, autonomous microwave for warming field rations) or the Dragon's [censored] (a self-propelled autonomous latrine)?

    These are especially important since the Dragon Warrior is unlikely to ever be put into service due to issues with infinite loops in the control software ("Dost thou love me?" "No" "But thou must!"), and a vulnerability to enemy subversion, despite self-destruct failsafes. Also, there is a considerable amount of tuning and calibration that each unit must go through under battlefield conditions, and there aren't always enough slimes and drakees to use for target practice. Finally, budget cuts threaten to drastically under-equip each unit, and simulations show that the operators quickly resort to looting defeated enemies.

  • Spiffy New Gear. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Srakkt ( 310266 ) on Saturday May 25, 2002 @09:09AM (#3583827)
    When these are issued out at Combined Arms eXercise at 29 Palms, and the geek-infantryman (believe me, they exist, I am one) is told to report to the commanding officer and figure the damn thing out so that it can be used, I'll believe these things are being used.
    Still, the point here is that if it's not exceedingly easy to use, it won't get used. If there are lots of little parts that have to go in the case, they're going to get lost. SL-3 gear for night vision gets lost all the time. The PEQ-2 infrared laser sight for the M-16 is a good example. There's a neato little switch that mounts, using adhesive and velcro, to the handguard. We never use it, though. it's supposed to stay in the pouch, but it gets lost. All the little bits and pieces that come with this junk get lost. Just like the little pieces of MoLLE gear, just like the little pieces of SL-3 for anything that comes with little garbage.
    A note to you engineers out there designing stuff for us to go kill people with: Make it monolithic. Configurable is nice and stuff, but if there are little parts that can get lost, they will get lost.
    It happens with all the stuff we have now; it'll happen with the DragonEye. Which, by the way, I don't ever want to have to hump into an LZ. I bet it doesn't de well wet, either. Well guess what? Grunts get wet and muddy on a sunny day. We're not happy unless we're wet and muddy. This thing isn't going to last long, I surmise. It's going to get broken too much.
    • Some of you reading the parent post might wonder why we Marines are so resistant to Spiffy New Gear. This is because it's hard enough to keep the more basic stuff in working condition e.g. NVGs, radios, hummers, M-16s (!). Nothing kills combat effectiveness worse than a dead radio or a blown up engine on a hummer. Oftentimes, if you break or lose an item or a portion of its SL3, it can be a *long time* before that stuff gets replaced. Remember that in any large scale endeavor, "what's important is simple, what's simple is hard"

      On the bright side, DragonEye and its kin are exactly the kind of gear that Marines have been asking for, and now we're getting it in a surprisingly timely fasion. Lately the Corps has put good emphasis on getting new gear out to the battalions as quickly as possible. While mistakes are made (MOLLE) there's also good gear coming out of the initiative (new cammies, boots, polarfleece!). I'd rather have good gear in my hands now over somewhat better gear delivered too late.

  • Anyone else scared by this? (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Anonymous Coward
    We modeled the controller after the PlayStation2, because that's what these 18-, 19-year-old Marines have been playing with pretty much all of their lives," said Maj. Greg Heines

    Things have been brought to light recently, and demonstrated tragically to us Canadians what these 18-19 yo playstation players can do with a little knowledge and too much power. I know this isn't a jet with a supposedly mature pilot at the helm, but it demonstrates to me the regard that the US military has for the maturity of its underlings.

    I just can't imagine a future where the jets that bomb us accidentally don't even have a pilot at the helm to ask "why?".
  • "If a Marine can use (Microsoft) Word, he can get this plane to fly."

    It looks like you are trying to crash this plane into the ground - would you like me to autoformat your controlled flight into terrain?
  • Almost. I think I'll just settle for buying the draganflyer x-pro [rctoys.com] from rctoys [rctoys.com].

  • "It can stay in the air for about an hour, get as high as about 300 feet in the air..."

    A 300 foot altitude limit? So it could only be used up the Mississippi River valley to Bethel Bridge (altitude 301 feet above sea level), in Ripley county, Missouri?

    And where would it be useful in mountains in Afghanistan...to fly only inside caves...caves below 300 feet above sea level?

  • A friend of mine actually built something exactly like the Dragon Runner a few months ago. He's a real big RC Car aficionado, so he had a bunch of different cars sitting around, and he wanted to do something more interesting with one of them. He got a couple of those X10 cameras, and mounted them on one of his cars, and had them broadcast back to a little battery powered TV that he carried around with him as he controlled the car. It had a range of .5 miles and could go full speed (40 MPH) for about 45 minutes before he needed to replace his batteries.

    I should hope that the Marines could get something at least on par with something my 17 year old friend built in his spare time.
    • IIRC, the Israeli RPVs got their start this way. They were inexpensive & expendable -- looked like they'd been mass-produced in a teen-ager's basement. The Israeli success with these "toys" is what got the US interested.
      • Remote control surveilance aircraft have been around for ages, but they used to be quite bigg and not particularly transportable unless you have a truck.

        Remote control vehicles have been in use for a very long time in the UK and Northern Ireland. The standard issue even includes a remote control shotgun (actually for blowing the locks off a car boot or destroying a timing device). It is not small and again needs a vehicle to transport it.

        The Germans have something that is being worked on that is a little like an airborn X-10. This is extremely portable, but don't ask about power. In the demo I saw on TV it was free flying with four fans. The device including the control laptop went into something the size of an attache case and that included padding.

  • Battlebots!

  • Star Trek needs this (Score:3, Funny)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asv AT ivoss DOT com> on Saturday May 25, 2002 @11:36AM (#3584204) Homepage Journal
    The Enterprise needs to get dragonfly technology, I never understood why every time there is a dangerous situation, they send in the top 3 officers ;)
  • As opposed to skittering around on metaphorical legs?

  • The USMC has had the AeroVironment Pointer [aerovironment.com] for about a decade now. This is a model airplane with a TV camera, small enough to be carried in a backpack. It's Kevlar, and powered by silver-zinc batteries (which, by the way, are great, but cost too much.) Range of a few miles, endurance of maybe an hour. (The maker says 1.5 hours, reports say 30 minutes.) Toss into the air, fly over the hill, and get a small-screen peek at the enemy. Moderately useful, not overdesigned, and reasonably rugged. For example, landing is done by coming in low, pulling up into a stall, cutting the power, and crashing tail-first, the typical model airplane bad landing.
  • When the pentagon drags a mouse over a foreign country and unleashes robotic hell on them, and people dying via remote control, one has to ask how far we are from large machines crunching their way over fields of human skulls.

    Is this really where humanity wants to go?
    • Niiice...I can cancel my cable subscription and just watch the end of life as we know it via my living room window.

      Seriously though, this kind of objection has been raised against every revolution in military technology. Nothing has changed since we developed weapons that enabled us to kill people without having to look them in the eye (i.e. since the development of the bow and arrow).
    • The higher ups have been doing this for a long time, even back when they would use a pointer to move toys on a big map.

      If you must fight, and you can reduce or eliminate the use of your own people it would be unethical NOT to use the technology that removes people from harms way.

      A completely seperate issue is will this lack of danger for 'our' side make 'our' side more likely to resort to force? I think that the USA already has such a ridiculously high kill ratio that this is an issue now, but it seems that the USA has just gotten more and more sensitive to soldier's deaths. Expectations simply grow with the technology.

  • GPLed autonomous aerial robots (Score:3, Informative)

    by tramm ( 16077 ) <hudson@swcp.com> on Saturday May 25, 2002 @11:47AM (#3584235) Homepage
    If you're interested in experimenting with these sorts of things, check out http://autopilot.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]. We're building the inertial sensors (IMU, GPS+INS) and writing the software to control autonomous helicopters.

    If you just want to try flying one, we have also have written an OpenGL simulator [sourceforge.net].

    Here's your change to try it without signing up for the Marines.

  • You know that's what's coming next. Giant killer mecha that will be hijacked by terrorists for their own evil uses.

    And only Hideo Kojima will be able to save us.
  • Hmmm. Let me think.... two things spring to mind.

    1. What ancient culture reveres the dragon?

    2. What's the name of the only other country to still harbour superpower dreams?

    Coincidence? Don't think so. And I don't think the military of the (very large) country I am avoiding naming will think so either.

    Foolish naming. Provokes for no possible benefit.
  • Dragon Flyer [rctoys.com]

    I saw this via Apple's homepage... sounds like you can buy your eye in the sky...

    Winton
  • Your plans to use ground and airborne autonomous robots in combat are indeed impressive. I have to warn you though, that my recent analyses strongly indicate that your entire attack force can be beaten by the first opponent who fields a well-designed clone army, or for that matter a bunch of poorly-armed semi-sentient amphibians and a small boy. Consider yourselves warned.

  • A terrorist's shopping list (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Saturday May 25, 2002 @07:29PM (#3585561)
    Using model airplanes as a military tool is very popular these days and some of the more sophisticated ones (such as the X-45) may well be the future of "safe" combat.

    However, don't fall into the trap of thinking that the US is the only force to have such combat tools or that this "off the shelf" technology can't be used against targets with the borders of the USA.

    Check out The Low Cost Cruise Missile [aardvark.co.nz] scenario for some insight into the opportunity this stuff gives to half-smart terrorist groups.
  • When the Marines took Kuwait City in the Gulf Warr, they drove RC worn-out trucks through the "impenetrable" mine fields.

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