Your Online Marketplace for Classified Jet Parts

jonerik writes: "Reuters is reporting that the U.S. Air Force is less than pleased about the recent posting of a number of sensitive jet communications components on eBay, including parts for the SR-71 spy plane, the F-16 fighter, the KC-10 tanker, and the giant C-5 transport. According to the article, the parts had sat in a warehouse for 12 years after being lost in shipping when the dealer, Norb Novocin, bought the lot for $244 in an unclaimed property sale. Novocin ended up selling four of the items to bidders in a recent auction, including an X-Band Weather Radar Modulator for $500 and a high-frequency radio circuit card for $32. The Air Force is looking into the incident and Novocin is cooperating."

this is good

[JeanBaptiste]

my x-band weather radar modulator just broke so I need a new one

What, No F-4 Parts?

[echucker]

Guess I'll have to fly it by the seat of my pants instead. :-(

Terrorists.

[Penguinoflight]

These guys must be terrorists, Why else would they want this cool stuff?? I'm just a little tired of the news always talking about terrorists, thankful it wasn't mentioned (yet) in this story.

Re:Terrorists.

[telstar]

I'm just a little tired of the news always talking about terrorists, thankful it wasn't mentioned (yet) in this story.

• No ... we left that up to you...

Re:Terrorists.

[LuxuryYacht]

As close as the article came to mentioning terrorists:

The magazine pointed out that rogue nations such as Iran routinely seek replacement parts for their U.S.-manufactured military planes.

Re:Terrorists.

[Lars T.]

Or they are from NASA, scavenging the stuff for old 8086 chips.

Pathetic...

[TheNecromancer]

Well, in my opinion, they should prosecute Novocin to the fullest extent of the law, since according to the Reuters article, he knew the parts were labeled "D" before he sold them on eBay. He could have just returned them to the US Air Force instead. They should also go after the supply depot too, since they suggested that he sell them on eBay.

What a bunch of idiots!

Re:Pathetic...

[Captain Chad]

Not Novocin's fault. From the article:

1. "Novocin informed the depot, who said they did not want the parts and suggested he sell them on eBay."

Typical government incompetency. It was only after Newsweek contacted them that they began to realize there was a problem.

Re:Pathetic...

[Xaoswolf]

I would like to have heard the conversation before I place the blame. If it had gone something like this,

Novocin: I have some airplane parts

Depot: Your point?

Novocin: Do you want them?

Depot: What, of course I don't want your parts.

novocin: Well, what am I supposed to do with them?

Depot: Well you could try to sell them someplace else, I don't want to buy them

Novocin: Who else would want these things

Depot: I don't care, why don't you put them on eBay or something

Then I could see why the guys at the depot told him to sell them. However if the Novocin guy said"I just purchased a bunch of classified parts from a shipping company." Then it is completely the Depot's fault.

Re:Pathetic...

[ChannelX]

What do you mean its not his fault? If the story is correct and he was aware of the status of the parts it is irrelevant what the depot said. If he didnt know the status and was told to just sell the stuff on ebay then fine...more power to him. But if he did know then he was well aware that he was committing a crime by selling the parts.

Re:Pathetic...

[BoneFlower]

He may have known they could be sensitive gear, but anyone with any familiarity with technology at all knows that it advances fast. These parts were in storage for 10 years+, when the depot said to sell them he may have assumed they said that because they were outdated and no longer needed. The depot would have asked what the parts were, a serial number, part number, item name, something! If they didn't ask what it was he specifically had, then they are at fault.

Re:Pathetic...

[Merlin42]

Did he actually sell any of the "D" parts? It says that 11 of 18 were "D" and he sold 4 items .. he _might_ have only sold non "D" labeled items.
Also, did the packaging indicate that they needed to be destroyed or did it just have a big red "D" which he would not know the meaning of?

Re:Pathetic...

[mgarraha]

Here's the Newsweek article [msnbc.com] mentioned in the Reuters story. I think the shipper [aatransferinc.com] who was supposed to take the stuff from Dover to Warner Robins is at fault.

The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service [dla.mil] holds public auctions, but they exclude items with demil code [dla.mil] "D".

Well

[karb]

Not too sure about things marked 'D', but I know the government can't hold normal people responsible for the dissemination of classified information. Normal, as in don't have a security clearance or haven't signed an NDA. That's why reporters can print stuff that has been leaked.

Re:Pathetic...

[bkr1_2k]

First of all, the article said he tried to return them and was told to sell them. Second, not all the parts were required destruction parts. The article doesn't mention whether or not the items sold were, but give the guy the benefit of the doubt here. He at least tried to return them properly (assuming the article is correct) and when told to sell them, he took the advice and made a little profit. The article also said he is cooperating with the Air Force who asked him to return the parts. There is no need to prosecute him for trying to be a decent person and still make his money back.

bkr

At Least....

[Anonymous Coward]

...it went to the lowest bidder, so the government can't be all that mad.

Lost in a warehouse?

[tmcmsail]

Isn't that where the Harrison Ford left the lost Arc?

The Air Farce, lost in space...
Fly Navy...

Re:Lost in a warehouse?

[Conare]

Isn't that where the Harrison Ford left the lost Arc?
The guys at the depot must have been "Top Men"

is there anything

[paradesign]

as truly american as ebay? its like the worlds largest garage sale. deep under the piles of shit stacked as high as landfills are some rare finds. plus if the gvmnt didnt want them sold they should have kept hold of them in the first place, instead of losing them like the abomb in sum of all fears.

There is

[shaldannon]

I dunno where you get them, but I visit this sports place that has Osama bin Laden pee mats...top that!

Re:is there anything

[ckimyt]

plus if the gvmnt didnt want them sold they should have kept hold of them in the first place, instead of losing them like the abomb in sum of all fears.

Um, I hope they didn't change the story that much from the book.

The plot was that originally the nuke was from India or Pakistan, who lost it off a plane that crashed. They couldn't look for it because they weren't letting on they had nuclear capabilities. The bomb was then reworked by some Soviet-era scientist working for one of the Evil-Doer Countries.

Way Offtopic - Sum of all fears

[saider]

I thought they got the bomb from an Israeli jet that had crashed in the 1967 war. It originally had a nuke attached, but the ground crew forgot to detach it when they were rearming the plane with conventional bombs. The plane crashed and the bomb landed in a field in Lebanon or Syria. Some farmer eventually ploughed it up and reported it to his local Hezbolla chief.

If I recall. It has been a while since I read the book.

Re:is there anything

[dmccarty]

if the gvmnt didnt want them sold they should have kept hold of them in the first place,

Ah yes, another gem of a post from someone who forgot to take their logic pills this morning. By the same flawgic, if you didn't want your wallet taken you shouldn't have left it in the theater in the first place, right?

Re:is there anything

[btellier]

I fail to see your logic. Yes, of course I shouldn't have left it in the theatre if I didn't want it to be taken.

As for the original poster, I disagree with the idea that he should be able to sell military technology on e-bay. What if was a missle that he was trying to sell? What if a foreign radical wants to study use data gleaned from these parts to be able to detect and shoot down our soldiers in the spy planes? No person outside of the US and affiliated military could possibly have any legitimate use for these parts.

I believe the government should compensate him for the cost of the auction, research time and maybe a little "finder's fee" then take their parts back. The parts are kept secret for a reason, you know.

Re:is there anything

[Zathrus]

It can be hit, but not like what was shown in the movie (yes it is out -- it bears fairly little relation to the book, but is a pretty good movie. If you can handle the very well presented nuclear explosion killing a few million people on US soil. It's gut wrenching.)

SPOILER ALERT

The movie showed an aircraft carrier in the Northern Sea (or thereabouts) getting hit by multiple Russian bombers with no warning and no air defense except for its own AEGIS cannons.

Reality is that there are always 2 or more jets and usually an AWACS plane in the air to provide air defense and early warning. Carriers are big. Carriers are slow. Carriers are expensive. And pilots need the training anyway, in all conditions.

On top of that this was shortly after a nuclear explosion inside of the continental US. SOP dictates that US forces would instantly go to highest readiness after such an incident - which would mean that carrier would have at last a full flight wing in the air, as well as being dead center of its carrier group. Any hostile trying to take out the carrier would have to go through a ring of aircraft - including AWACS with downward looking radar that doesn't really care if you're skimming the wave tops - followed by a ring of destroyers and cruisers. All fully armed with sea-to-air missiles and AEGIS anti-missile guns. Carrier groups are very expensive to operate. They're also pretty well impenetrable unless you use a nuke or somehow sneak a submarine in through thermal layers (and generally carrier groups have friendly hunter-killer subs nearby to prevent just that).

Re:is there anything

[oni]

that carrier would have at last a full flight wing in the air, as well as being dead center of its carrier group. Any hostile trying to take out the carrier would have to go through a ring of aircraft - including AWACS with downward looking radar that doesn't really care if you're skimming the wave tops - followed by a ring of destroyers and cruisers. All fully armed with sea-to-air missiles and AEGIS anti-missile guns.

That's a pretty good summary of a basic fleet air defense. I think it's worth mentioning how the Soviet's actually planned to get through all that defense though.

The strategy is called a rollback. Basically, if you fire a lot missiles at an air defense system, each one will be intercepted a little closer to the target than the one before it. Slowly, the defenses are rolled back until missiles start getting through.

There's no way to stop a rollback. All Aegis or a good CWIS do is increase the number of missles required to roll the defenses back, or decrease the intercept range reduction from each missile. At some point, obviously, it would get too expensive (each cruise missile costs nearly 1mil) to fire that many - but it is always possible.

Other factors are fighter cover. The phoenix was designed to kill the bombers before they could launch (each backfire bomber destroyed = 3 cruise missiles). Submarines are a big factor. A submarine strike against one or two of the air defense cruisers (not the carrier itself) coordinated with the air strike is very effective.

Of course, the carrier group has its own subs to hunt the enemy subs. And the bombers can bring fighters to cover them. Offensive and defensive measures swing back and forth like that.

On top of that is the tactical use of all these weapons. When playing Harpoon, I used to like to feign an attack from one direction with a barrage launched by, say an Oscar submarine. Then I'd give the carrier taskforce just enough time to redeploy a couple of cruisers to that side and I'd hit them from the other side with a combined attack by bombers and subs.

If you're willing to spend the cash, it's really not all that hard to kill a single carrier. Of course, the bombers themselves need a large airbase - and that will be destroyed by the airforce right away... I could go on but you get the idea.

Re:is there anything

[markmoss]

There's no way to stop a rollback.

Not necessarily true. Identify where the missiles are coming from and bomb it, or send fighters down a parallel path to the missiles to hook in and kill the launching airplanes or stop part of the missiles _early_. The problem is, likely the theater commanders have to call Washington for permission to bomb, and it takes too long. There was a time when you also had to worry about whether our planes could penetrate to where they needed to be to cut off the flow (short of asking for an ICBM launch), but I doubt that's an issue anywhere now - if the commander has permission to risk a few aircrews before his entire fleet is at risk!

Re:is there anything

[oni]

Identify where the missiles are coming from and bomb it, or send fighters down a parallel path

Yes definitely. But you know, if it goes as planned the aircraft are already on their way home by the time the first of the missiles are spotted. They're all launched at pretty much the same time, and remember these are large cruise missiles [fas.org] we're talking about here.

Re:is there anything

[mr_death]

Really, I took three deep breaths before responding.

Zathrus my boy, you're spouting acronyms without knowing what the hell you're talking about. A few of your errors:

1. An AWACS is an Air Force aircraft, built on a modified Boeing 707 airframe. There's no way that it would ever land on a carrier. You should have referenced the E-2 Hawkeye.

2. Carriers are one of the fastest surface vessels in the US Navy. The predominate term in the drag equation is the length of the waterline. Further, since most of our CVs are nuclear power, the CV doesn't burn excessive amounts of fuel when it goes fast.

3. Neither you or I know what's in the SOP, as the interesting bits are classified. It is a fair bet that every US ship would go to condition III (wartime cruising) after a WMD is detonated in the US.

4. AEGIS cannon?!?!? There's no such critter. See http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/weapo ns/wepaegis.html . My guess is that you meant CIWS (Close In Weapons System, the R2D2-looking Phalanx.)

5. As a deception, sometimes the oiler is in the center of the formation.

6. It may be difficult to penetrate the defenses of the battle group, but not impossible.

7. Boats do not cruise "through thermal layers" -- they are above or below the layer, as the situation dictates.

Re:is there anything

[Zathrus]

Appreciate the clarifications, seriously.

1 - got it... same general purpose though, correct?

2 - Yes, I know how fast they are. But a ship running 60 knots full-out is still slow compared to an aircraft or a missile. By at least an order of magnitude.

3 - No, we don't, but if going to full alert isn't SOP then someone in the brass needs to have their ass canned. As a point of reference (which I meant to include but didn't), I do believe all our military assets went to full alert after the September 11th attacks. This scenario is considerably worse.

4 - You are correct again. The movie shows the carrier using such a system to take out roughly 2/3's of the incoming missiles.

5-6 - Nod.

7 - I meant the submarine going below the layer to infiltrate the battle group, and then going up to fire (if necessary - or just firing from beneath it if possible).

You are very correct in that I had a good bit of the terminology wrong on the details, and your evenhanded corrections ARE appreciated... but it's still considerably more accuate than what the movie depicted (gee - the US just got nuked, so we'll have a helicopter, a few F-15s, and a Hawkeye sitting idle on the flight deck in storage mode, not even being prepped for flight ops).

Re:is there anything

[markmoss]

3. Carriers might be the fastest ship (at least in heavy weather), but they really hate to outrun the escorting destroyers/cruisers/frigates, because then some little boat could sneak up on the carrier and blow large holes in it. And the escorts are not nuclear.

Do nuke carriers still carry some fuel oil so they can refuel their escorts in an emergency? As far as I know, fleet oilers can keep up in a normal cruise, but get left far behind when the warships crank up the shaft RPM's.

Re:is there anything

[markmoss]

in a typical carrier formation, the oiler and the carrier were both critical, high-value assets... loosing either one would seriously degrade the effectiveness of the entire task force. Of course, it was also doctrine that such formations kept a few miles seperation between the oiler and other ships, if at all possible...
Oilers are replaceable. Carriers aren't. Of course, considering the appetite of the destroyers for fuel oil as well as the air wing's consumption of JP-5, losing an oiler too soon might mean aborting the plan until a new oiler arrives.

In WWII, sometimes oilers were mistaken for carriers. At the battle of the Coral Sea, not only did a scout plane report an oiler as a carrier, but about 100 Japanese airplanes bombed and torpedoed it, apparently without noticing the mistake, because their commander claimed one "carrier". (It was going home with empty tanks, and it actually didn't sink until the Navy took the crew off and scuttled it.) I doubt that anyone would make that mistake at close range with a modern carrier, but if you were shooting cruise missiles from 200 miles, one great big long ship gives the same radar reflection as another...

X Band Weather Modulator?

[Black Aardvark House]

I was all excited, reading it first as the Iludium Pu 36 Explosive Space Modulator [everything2.com]!

Here's one of the finished auctions..

[xtermz]

Did a search on ebay for X-Band in completed items, and this [ebay.com] came up. Guy's ebay id is estateauctionsinc , looks like he's just a guy who buys stuff at estate sales and such. Ebay has him listed as being from Jacksonville, so I looked up Norb Novcain in the white pages and yep, he's from Jacksonville...

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Here's one of the finished auctions..

[tssm0n0]

Taking a quick browse through the feedback posted on the buyers, I see a lot of "Great international customer!" type of comments. Looks like he was shipping this all over the place. At least he didn't have bLaden listed as the highest bidder.

Re:Here's one of the finished auctions..

[shaldannon]

You really think Osama would sign up on eBay as bLaden?

As a side note, this sports entertainment place I frequent has a picture of Osama on the pee mat....I guess someone decided he could turn a profit and make every red-blooded American man pleased with himself for contributing to his country's honor...

Re:Here's one of the finished auctions..

[tssm0n0]

You really think Osama would sign up on eBay as bLaden?

Very good point. Perhaps he used his email address, [e-mail]

Irony

[blankmange]

I thought the ironic part of this was the supply depot not wanting them back and suggesting that they be sold on eBay....

So, if I have some quasi-classified aircraft parts I need to send from point A to point B, how would I get them there -- and if they were 'lost' on the way, would I just write them off?

The Air Force is upset that the parts were offered for sale and then subsequently sold? Sounds like a comedy of errors....

Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[cybrpnk2]

Here's the Completed Items page [ebay.com] for this vendor that includes the USAF items mentioned at the bottom of the web page.

Re:Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[echucker]

For the lazy, here are the items that actually sold, the prices, and buyers. Note that only one bid was received in each case.

SR-71 C-9 Circuit for HF Radio AN/ARC-190 yqz $32.24 tj913
KC-10 C-5 X-Band Radar Modlatr AN/APS-133 yqz $586.98 fedx2
Secure Digital VHF Panel Assy AN/ARC-106 yqz $67.80 strale64
F-16 C-130 AN/ARC-186 Radio Rear Assy yqz $28.52 [e-mail]

Re:Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[Mononoke]

So, the F-16 C-130 AN/ARC-186 Radio Rear Assy yqz $28.52 was purchased by [e-mail].

Visit one other web site and I find that k4bdj is:

MC LENDON, DAVID K, K4BDJ
2510 SEVEN ISLANDS RD
BUCKHEAD, GA 30625

Ah, now I remember why I don't use my ham callsign online.

Re:Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[ClickNMix]

Note that only one bid was received in each case.

Maybe he should have posted about the sales on here, he would have taken loads of bids then! ;o)

Re:Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[skroz]

I want to know how he arrived at those prices...

Re:Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[skroz]

Indeed, but look at the reserve prices he set. I'm very curious about how he arrived at those reserve prices.

Re:Here's The Actual EBay Pages...

[btellier]

If you read the e-bay listings he says that he's selling everything for 5% of their "military worth". How this "military worth" price is determined I have no idea, but it's probably the amount they were purchased for in 1989. If you take into account the military's $1000 For a Hammer Principle, you're probably not getting that great of a deal at 5% ;)

Selling and buying parts

[andyring]

Hmmm, with these people selling Air Force, etc., parts, and NASA [nasa.gov] looking to buy parts [slashdot.org] from eBay [ebay.com], maybe these two groups could get together on this! NASA gets the parts they need, and bin Laden or Hussein's cronies don't buy F16 parts.

Might not be true

[brejc8]

My old physics teacher used to be in the army and I'm not sure how true this is but he claims that during the sixties UK was holding most of its plutonium reserve in an unmarked warehouse in New York.
When they did tell the New York mayor he wasnt pleased at all.

Re:Might not be true

[Papineau]

Hope it wasn't the UK reserve in NY... although it makes sense to keep some unmarked plutonium reserve in a foreign country rather than on it's own soil. If something goes wrong, it's far enough, and you can always blame somebody else if it's robbed.

Reporter missed the point.

[OaITw]

In a top notch piece of reporting we are told the defense department is investigating how an antiques dealer bought a bunch of defense related parts at an unclaimed property sale at a warehouse and then sold them on ebay for a profit. I imagine a house subcommittee will soon be on the case also. My parents own warehouses. Unclaimed property sales are standard proceedures. Neither the warehouse owner or the buyer knows ahead of time what is being sold. Since there is no mystery there, the government investigators must be stuck on how exactly someone gets an item listed on ebay. I have actually found the ebay interface fairly understandable, but if the investigator are not computer savy it may present some problems I am sure. Next step of course will be to investigate how exactly the antique dealer got that little blue star next to his name. Very suspecious indeed.

ah yes, those international criminal "auctions"

[mekkab]

After the "blue star" investigation they should investigate how that new browser window simply "popped up" without me knowing about it!

This falls in line with some research that I have done, involving the exploits of one british operative 00 (double-oh) 7 (seven).

It seems he sabotaged an international arms auction. Afterwards he helped sink a "stealth boat". I wonder if this "antiques" dealer was at just such an auction...

supped up sesna

[shftleft]

Oooh... now i can spy on my girlfriend from 3000 feet up.

Conspiracy afoot

[blankmange]

This guy in Jacksonville is a front for the CIA/FBI/NSA - see who buys this "lost" stuff and find out who/what/where/why on this person(s).... yeah, that's it...yeah, that's it...

Just kidding, but with all the other goofy stuff that flies around out there, why not?

What's next?

[PissingInTheWind]

Drugs, kidneys, virginity... Now classified plane parts.

How long before they get to sell an alzheimer-suffering ex-president on EBay?

Re:What's next?

[davmct]

Will a Bobble-head Ronald Reagan do [ebay.com]?

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Question for the Seller.

[srvivn21]

I wonder what the shipping charges are going to be...

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Sounds like a good idea

[Sapphon]

Maybe the Australian Government should start ordering its military equipment over Ebay - it'll probably get there faster than the choppers they ordered [theage.com.au] *grin* N.B. I'm Australian, so it's hardly trolling or flamebait

20/20 Stort from years back

[Red Weasel]

was about a man who purchased things from government auctions for a living. Some of the things that he acquired included Reagan's automated signature signer and the tracking system of a ICBM. He returned the guidance system, but only after he got 3 offers for it in the 10 mil range. Thats how he discovered what the big box he bought contained.

That still Cracks me up.

What's the fuss?

[melquiades]

Seems to me that the Air Force should have bid on the item like everyone else.

I know things are tight at the defense defense department these days, what with only billions of dollars to waste instead of billions and billions and billions ... but I'm sure they could have scrounged up the money for a winning bid. :)

Actually, I wonder if the reason the DoD can't seem to pass an independent audit [washtimes.com], and in fact can only account for about a third of their budget [cdi.org], is that they're already blowing all their dough buying antique lamp shades on eBay.

The gov't should have just outbid everyone else

[mlarios]

I'm sure they could have just outbid all the other people on eBay if it was that important to them. I'm just concerened that I can't get my wife the X-Band Weather Radar Modulator she wanted for our anniversary. Oh well.

What's next?

[pstreck]

This is just another example of how poor our government security really is... I'm moving to canada

Canada's record not so good either

[shaldannon]

In 2001, NPR had a story about how a sizable portion of Canada's ground hardware was stuck on a Russian shipping vessel just off the east coast because the vessel's owners wanted to be paid for the shipment back to Canada, the Canadian government had paid a contractor, and the contractor had gone out of business without paying the Russian shipper.

Re:Canada's record not so good either

[nesthigh]

I think you mean this incident. [helis.com] I was in Canada at the time, and recall a few of the gorey details not mentioned in the AP story. Notice how it reads "from a helicopter", apparently they sent three helicopters but two had to go back because of mechanical failure. Also, I seem to recall that the choppers were really old like 20+ years, and that they didn't have enough spare parts to keep the majority of them opperational.

It's a wonder they were able to destroy the Baldwin's compound with such ease. ;-)

Next

Re:Canada's record not so good either

[topham]

The helicopters aren't 20 years old, they are a heck of a lot older than that. But our government jets are being replaced after only 17 years of service.

Flea Markets

[Alien54]

Heck you can find all kinds of things, some of the strangest things, at the MIT Flea Market [mit.edu]. Perfect for the budding and experienced mad scientist.

There is also this list of electronics flea markets [mit.edu] for the North East

I imagine there are a few someplace near silicon valley as well as CalTech, etc.

;-)

Re:Flea Markets

[Ezubaric]

> I imagine there are a few someplace near silicon
> valley as well as CalTech, etc.

Hell no. Not at Caltech. Every night moles scour the piles of discarded equipment outside Jorgensen and Steele (our CS / EE) buildings and claim it for Caltech. It then goes for decoration, inceneration, or other mischief.

We're not about to part with our cool stuff.

Re:Flea Markets

[Zurgutt]

This reminds me of a old soviet-time anecdote:

Q: Does the hydrogen bomb really exist?
A: No. If it did, it would be on sale on Odessa flea market.

:)

No product support from US Goverment?

[Chicane-UK]

This quote is amusing..

The magazine pointed out that rogue nations such as Iran routinely seek replacement parts for their U.S.-manufactured military planes.

I just find it funny.. the US must have sold them the planes in the first place.. and now that Iran falls into an area under the Axis Of Evil moniker, its suddenly a serious problem that they try and obtain parts? Perhaps you should have thought of that...

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[t_allardyce]

Thats what capitalism gets you - everyone for themselves to make as much money as posible. Most politicians would sell their own kids if they would make enough. And since the CIA etc. _trained_ half the worlds rulers and terrorists it would stand to reason that it would give them a going away present of maybe a couple of warheads and some bombers. That reminds me, does anyone know the going price of weapons grade plutonium?

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[bourne]

I just find it funny.. the US must have sold them the planes in the first place.. and now that Iran falls into an area under the Axis Of Evil moniker, its suddenly a serious problem that they try and obtain parts? Perhaps you should have thought of that...

I hate to have to bring up actual history, but you do realize there was some revolution thingy between us selling the planes to the Iran and them currently seeking parts for them?

No shit - look it up. Or maybe the 1979 Iranian Embassy Hostage Crisis [bartleby.com] rings a bell? You know, 1.5 years of American hostages, rescue mission gone horribly awry?

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[Wudbaer]

Well, Iraq got along without any revolutions. First they were the good guys and got a lot of nice toys (first gulf war), then - omygod - they suddendly were very bad boys and invaded Kuwait.

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[bourne]

Well, Iraq got along without any revolutions. First they were the good guys and got a lot of nice toys (first gulf war), then - omygod - they suddendly were very bad boys and invaded Kuwait.

The enemy of my enemy is only my friend as long as he doesn't turn around and beat up my other friends.

If the US only allied ourselves with good guys, it would be us and Canada. And, quite frankly, that's only assuming Canada would have us.

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[bourne]

Ok, one is always smarter afterwards, but also in this case it might have been somewhat ironic that the US were outfitting the Iraqis to fight the Mullahs in Iran while almost in parallel arming muslim extremists in neighbouring Afghanistan to fight the Soviet Union.

In both cases, the goal was achieved:

• Afghanistan - USSR unable to push a land corridor down to a warm-water port on the Indian Ocean
• Iraq - Iran checked from extending to the western side of the Persian Gulf.

Was it worth the cost? So far, yes, but personally I think the US would be a lot better off sinking 20 years of money into nuclear plants and electric infrastructure and letting the middle east go to hell on their own. Fighting for oil is necessary today (what do you think powers Slashdot and your PC?) but that's a dead-end game eventually, and the winners will be the ones willing to make the jump (while the losers will be oil-based welfare states with population explosion and repressive social and political structures. Again, let's get out before they explode).

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[bourne]

Oil isn't really used any more in the U.S. for Electricity generation.

You are correct! I was suprised to note that:

2000 Net generation: 3.8 trillion kilowatthours
Coal 52%
Nuclear 20%
Gas 16%
Hydro 7%
Oil 3%
Non-hydro Renewable 2%

(DOE [doe.gov])

Still, the transportation industry is heavily dependent on petroleum, and if we switched from petroleum to hydrogen-based or electric, we would need to bump the power generation correspondingly - which still means nukes, because all of the others above are limited.

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[Tosta Dojen]

Before you jump on the "bash the incompetent gov't" wagon, check your facts. Iran was a solid American ally in the late 70s, when the US sold them many warplanes, including ~75 F-14 Tomcats. Very advanced stuff for the time.

Then there was a revolution. Iran's standing government was overthrown, and replaced by one that was hostile to the US. A hostile administration in possession of all that advanced technology is hardly a good situation, but not really the US government's fault. "Oh, we should have seen the Iranian revolution coming. Oops!" Get real.

Re:No product support from US Goverment?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Actually, we should have seen the Iranian revolution coming. We propped up the incompetent, corrupt, and increasingly unpopular government of the Shah and dismissed Khomeini as a fringe nutcase while he was gathering immense popular support. The CIA agents in the region spent all their time playing James Bond at fancy Tehran hotels and restaurants instead of gathering intelligence on the street.

Other than that, what you said.

Address for SR-71 part auction

[genka]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?Vi ewItem&item=1831196414&r=0&t=0
Picture is not exciting. Just a circuit board.

Cooperation

[mstyne]

The Air Force is looking into the incident and Novocin is cooperating.

Air Force: "You should be seeing a squadron of B-2 Spirits flying over your corporate headquarters in about ten minutes."

Novocin: "Um, yeah, so whaddya wanna know?"

Not a surprise

[BoneFlower]

I've seen ebay ads for high end crypto gear. Technically unclassified itself, but it was built to fill hardware crypto keys, the crypto being quite classified when paired with the hardware it went to. With a couple connections in the right places, someone could use that to fill a STU-III(secure telephone) with current crypto

Top Secret? Not really...

[Wag]

Come on, we have 30yr obsolete technology that was lost in the mail, and it wasn't really looked for all that hard.

It's not like anybody who wanted to know about this stuff, what with so many of our FBI and CIA agents selling information to anybody who had the $$$$.

Hasn't anyone noticed how similar the Soviet Space Shuttle looked to ours?

Re:Who modded this up?

[Wag]

Ever hear of "sarcasm"? Apparently not.

As far as modding it up, I actually bother to log-in and post intelligently from time to time.

What bothers me the most

[T5]

isn't the altimeters or weather gear, but the IFF (identify friend or foe) transmitter. Properly coded (which is the hard part), this could prevent friendly forces from being able to automatically target an incoming aircraft from a hostile force, as well as providing a way for a hostile aircraft to approach friendly forces.

Re:What bothers me the most

[markmoss]

What bothers me the most is] the IFF (identify friend or foe) transmitter. I really, really hope that IFF does not depend on security by obscurity, but rather on keeping the codes secret and changing them often. Planes fly all over the world with the same IFF gear, some of them will fall into unfriendly hands. Of course, it makes a bit of a difference whether those hands are a Taliban peasant who doesn't understand anything more complex than an AK-47, or (say) a Saudi terrorist millionaire who can buy a research lab to analyze it... But at any rate, once a system like this has been widely deployed for a couple of years, you have to assume the guys with the most technological capability have obtained copies - so your security had better be in the codes.

Sign of the times..

[k98sven]

Wow is the world changing, you can buy -everything- online now..

(shameless plug..)
I remember, back during the Cold War, we didn't have the internet,
we had to sell these things at secret meetings with the "attaché for tourism" from the embassy of some shady nation..

You had to get plane tickets to all these wierd,
exotic locations like Geneva and the Caribbian, to meet these jerks. (They never even said thanks)

Nowadays, I don't even have to leave my nice CIA office, and I always get the best price for my contraband! Ebay is great!

(/shameless plug)

Classified parts..

[ldopa1]

Anyone know where I can score a Hellfire missile?? I searched on Ebay under

Stuff>> Parts>> Govt.>> Weapons>> Missiles>> Classified>> Anti-Radar>> Anti-Tank for "Hellfire" and I got NADA... But I did find a nice AIM-4D Falcon [whattheheck.com] that the Koreans are offloading...

This is ridiculous! I had no problems picking up a sightly used Sun [whattheheck.com], 81" of snow [whattheheck.com], a Russian test space shuttle [whattheheck.com] and the Ark of the Covenant [whattheheck.com] (presumably being sold by one Dr. Jones)...

I'm looking at a slightly used V-22 Osprey (no reserve!) on www.ebayplanesthatcrashoften.com, but even though it has no reserve, it's starting bid is $945M....

I guess I'm just a dick. [whattheheck.com]

Too bad

[r_j_prahad]

If only Novocin had found a warehouse full of hammers and toilet seats, he could have been rich beyond his wildest dreams! Everybody in USAF procurement knows that's where the real money is.

Re:Too bad

[sharkey]

hammers and toilet seats...that's where the real money is.

Don't forget the toilet paper. Can't have our boys getting chafed you know. Sure as hell don't want 'em getting splinters from the TP like the $ENEMY_ARMY_OF_THE_DAY does.

Damn!

[cymraeg]

...X-Band Weather Radar Modulator...

When I first read that, I was thinking of Marvin the Martian's Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator. I've always wanted one of those, but I keep getting outbid by some wasckaly wabbit.

Marvin The Martian

[bludstone]

THE X-Band Weather Radar Modulator.. that creature has stolen the Radar Modulator! There was supposed to be an earth shattering KABOOM!!

*end marvin the martian voice*

Is E-bay Cheaper

[Lysander Luddite]

than the price the government orignally paid?

That's where the investigation should focus. :)

Damn

[Anonymous Coward]

Where the hell do you go to buy these unclaimed property lots, anyway? I want top-secret classified military gear too!

Shoulda made more money...

[purpledinoz]

I think those items could have been sold for much more than that....

Ebay is great for plutonium/uranium too

[hklingon]

You [ebay.com] need [ebay.com] some [ebay.com] uranium? [ebay.com]

I sure wish I had ebay when I was a kid...

Re:Ebay is great for plutonium/uranium too

[RevRigel]

Only a small fraction of the Uranium ore is elemental Uranium. And only .2% of that is the isotope U-235, which is weapons grade. And you need equipment that costs big money to do the U-235/U-238 separation, and deal with extremely deadly crap like Uranium hexafluoride.

Link to e-bay items...

[Tails]

Man, C5 radar components are getting expensive!

Enjoy pictures and descriptions of the items in question:

Military sales at ebay [ebay.com]

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:C'mon....the stuff is 12 years old!

[jonerik]

The stuff was lost in a warehouse for 12 years....how "classified" can this stuff be? It sounds like a bunch of old radar equipment....big deal.

My understanding of past situations of this sort is that the military is concerned about the release of technology that might be obsolescent by our standards and those of our allies, but is still more advanced than what our enemies (or potential enemies) have access to. A 15-year-old communications circuit might not sound like such a big deal to us, but if you're the Chinese military and are typically working with technology that's 20 years behind what the Americans are using, it might be a very big deal indeed.

Don't blame the surplus sales staff...

[AB3A]

Having purchased military surplus myself, I can honestly say that these folks have very little idea what they're working with. They're not paid enough to know that much.

Add that to the fact that these miscellaneous boxes of stuff were lost in a warehouse to begin with, and, well, what do you expect? The real guilty parties were the ones who didn't track down the original boxes when they were lost. After all, they could easily have fallen in to the wrong hands back then.