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Your Online Marketplace for Classified Jet Parts 191

Posted by timothy from the flux-capacitor-shipped-separately dept.
jonerik writes: "Reuters is reporting that the U.S. Air Force is less than pleased about the recent posting of a number of sensitive jet communications components on eBay, including parts for the SR-71 spy plane, the F-16 fighter, the KC-10 tanker, and the giant C-5 transport. According to the article, the parts had sat in a warehouse for 12 years after being lost in shipping when the dealer, Norb Novocin, bought the lot for $244 in an unclaimed property sale. Novocin ended up selling four of the items to bidders in a recent auction, including an X-Band Weather Radar Modulator for $500 and a high-frequency radio circuit card for $32. The Air Force is looking into the incident and Novocin is cooperating."
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Your Online Marketplace for Classified Jet Parts More

Your Online Marketplace for Classified Jet Parts

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  • my x-band weather radar modulator just broke so I need a new one
  • Guess I'll have to fly it by the seat of my pants instead. :-(
  • These guys must be terrorists, Why else would they want this cool stuff?? I'm just a little tired of the news always talking about terrorists, thankful it wasn't mentioned (yet) in this story.
  • Well, in my opinion, they should prosecute Novocin to the fullest extent of the law, since according to the Reuters article, he knew the parts were labeled "D" before he sold them on eBay. He could have just returned them to the US Air Force instead. They should also go after the supply depot too, since they suggested that he sell them on eBay.

    What a bunch of idiots!

    • Re:Pathetic... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Captain Chad ( 102831 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:29AM (#3630335) Homepage
      Not Novocin's fault. From the article:
      1. "Novocin informed the depot, who said they did not want the parts and suggested he sell them on eBay."
      Typical government incompetency. It was only after Newsweek contacted them that they began to realize there was a problem.
      • I would like to have heard the conversation before I place the blame. If it had gone something like this,

        Novocin: I have some airplane parts

        Depot: Your point?

        Novocin: Do you want them?

        Depot: What, of course I don't want your parts.

        novocin: Well, what am I supposed to do with them?

        Depot: Well you could try to sell them someplace else, I don't want to buy them

        Novocin: Who else would want these things

        Depot: I don't care, why don't you put them on eBay or something

        Then I could see why the guys at the depot told him to sell them. However if the Novocin guy said"I just purchased a bunch of classified parts from a shipping company." Then it is completely the Depot's fault.

      • What do you mean its not his fault? If the story is correct and he was aware of the status of the parts it is irrelevant what the depot said. If he didnt know the status and was told to just sell the stuff on ebay then fine...more power to him. But if he did know then he was well aware that he was committing a crime by selling the parts.
        • He may have known they could be sensitive gear, but anyone with any familiarity with technology at all knows that it advances fast. These parts were in storage for 10 years+, when the depot said to sell them he may have assumed they said that because they were outdated and no longer needed. The depot would have asked what the parts were, a serial number, part number, item name, something! If they didn't ask what it was he specifically had, then they are at fault.

    • Re:Pathetic... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Merlin42 ( 148225 )
      Did he actually sell any of the "D" parts? It says that 11 of 18 were "D" and he sold 4 items .. he _might_ have only sold non "D" labeled items.
      Also, did the packaging indicate that they needed to be destroyed or did it just have a big red "D" which he would not know the meaning of?

    • Re:Pathetic... (Score:3, Informative)

      by mgarraha ( 409436 )

      Here's the Newsweek article [msnbc.com] mentioned in the Reuters story. I think the shipper [aatransferinc.com] who was supposed to take the stuff from Dover to Warner Robins is at fault.

      The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service [dla.mil] holds public auctions, but they exclude items with demil code [dla.mil] "D".

    • Well (Score:1)

      by karb ( 66692 )
      Not too sure about things marked 'D', but I know the government can't hold normal people responsible for the dissemination of classified information. Normal, as in don't have a security clearance or haven't signed an NDA. That's why reporters can print stuff that has been leaked.
    • First of all, the article said he tried to return them and was told to sell them. Second, not all the parts were required destruction parts. The article doesn't mention whether or not the items sold were, but give the guy the benefit of the doubt here. He at least tried to return them properly (assuming the article is correct) and when told to sell them, he took the advice and made a little profit. The article also said he is cooperating with the Air Force who asked him to return the parts. There is no need to prosecute him for trying to be a decent person and still make his money back.

      bkr

  • At Least.... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...it went to the lowest bidder, so the government can't be all that mad.

  • Lost in a warehouse? (Score:3, Funny)

    by tmcmsail ( 302707 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:27AM (#3630319)
    Isn't that where the Harrison Ford left the lost Arc?

    The Air Farce, lost in space...
    Fly Navy...

  • is there anything (Score:4, Insightful)

    by paradesign ( 561561 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:28AM (#3630329) Homepage
    as truly american as ebay? its like the worlds largest garage sale. deep under the piles of shit stacked as high as landfills are some rare finds. plus if the gvmnt didnt want them sold they should have kept hold of them in the first place, instead of losing them like the abomb in sum of all fears.
    • I dunno where you get them, but I visit this sports place that has Osama bin Laden pee mats...top that!
    • plus if the gvmnt didnt want them sold they should have kept hold of them in the first place, instead of losing them like the abomb in sum of all fears.
      Um, I hope they didn't change the story that much from the book.

      The plot was that originally the nuke was from India or Pakistan, who lost it off a plane that crashed. They couldn't look for it because they weren't letting on they had nuclear capabilities. The bomb was then reworked by some Soviet-era scientist working for one of the Evil-Doer Countries.

      • I thought they got the bomb from an Israeli jet that had crashed in the 1967 war. It originally had a nuke attached, but the ground crew forgot to detach it when they were rearming the plane with conventional bombs. The plane crashed and the bomb landed in a field in Lebanon or Syria. Some farmer eventually ploughed it up and reported it to his local Hezbolla chief.

        If I recall. It has been a while since I read the book.
    • if the gvmnt didnt want them sold they should have kept hold of them in the first place,

      Ah yes, another gem of a post from someone who forgot to take their logic pills this morning. By the same flawgic, if you didn't want your wallet taken you shouldn't have left it in the theater in the first place, right?

      • I fail to see your logic. Yes, of course I shouldn't have left it in the theatre if I didn't want it to be taken.

        As for the original poster, I disagree with the idea that he should be able to sell military technology on e-bay. What if was a missle that he was trying to sell? What if a foreign radical wants to study use data gleaned from these parts to be able to detect and shoot down our soldiers in the spy planes? No person outside of the US and affiliated military could possibly have any legitimate use for these parts.

        I believe the government should compensate him for the cost of the auction, research time and maybe a little "finder's fee" then take their parts back. The parts are kept secret for a reason, you know.
  • I was all excited, reading it first as the Iludium Pu 36 Explosive Space Modulator [everything2.com]!

  • Here's one of the finished auctions.. (Score:3, Informative)

    by xtermz ( 234073 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:31AM (#3630344) Homepage Journal
    Did a search on ebay for X-Band in completed items, and this [ebay.com] came up. Guy's ebay id is estateauctionsinc , looks like he's just a guy who buys stuff at estate sales and such. Ebay has him listed as being from Jacksonville, so I looked up Norb Novcain in the white pages and yep, he's from Jacksonville...

  • I thought the ironic part of this was the supply depot not wanting them back and suggesting that they be sold on eBay....

    So, if I have some quasi-classified aircraft parts I need to send from point A to point B, how would I get them there -- and if they were 'lost' on the way, would I just write them off?

    The Air Force is upset that the parts were offered for sale and then subsequently sold? Sounds like a comedy of errors....

  • Here's The Actual EBay Pages... (Score:5, Informative)

    by cybrpnk2 ( 579066 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:33AM (#3630354) Homepage
    Here's the Completed Items page [ebay.com] for this vendor that includes the USAF items mentioned at the bottom of the web page.
    • For the lazy, here are the items that actually sold, the prices, and buyers. Note that only one bid was received in each case.

      SR-71 C-9 Circuit for HF Radio AN/ARC-190 yqz $32.24 tj913
      KC-10 C-5 X-Band Radar Modlatr AN/APS-133 yqz $586.98 fedx2
      Secure Digital VHF Panel Assy AN/ARC-106 yqz $67.80 strale64
      F-16 C-130 AN/ARC-186 Radio Rear Assy yqz $28.52 k4bdj@sensible.net
    • I want to know how he arrived at those prices...
  • Hmmm, with these people selling Air Force, etc., parts, and NASA [nasa.gov] looking to buy parts [slashdot.org] from eBay [ebay.com], maybe these two groups could get together on this! NASA gets the parts they need, and bin Laden or Hussein's cronies don't buy F16 parts.

  • Might not be true (Score:3, Interesting)

    by brejc8 ( 223089 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:34AM (#3630359) Homepage Journal
    My old physics teacher used to be in the army and I'm not sure how true this is but he claims that during the sixties UK was holding most of its plutonium reserve in an unmarked warehouse in New York.
    When they did tell the New York mayor he wasnt pleased at all.
    • Hope it wasn't the UK reserve in NY... although it makes sense to keep some unmarked plutonium reserve in a foreign country rather than on it's own soil. If something goes wrong, it's far enough, and you can always blame somebody else if it's robbed.

  • Reporter missed the point. (Score:3, Funny)

    by OaITw ( 155633 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:35AM (#3630367)
    In a top notch piece of reporting we are told the defense department is investigating how an antiques dealer bought a bunch of defense related parts at an unclaimed property sale at a warehouse and then sold them on ebay for a profit. I imagine a house subcommittee will soon be on the case also. My parents own warehouses. Unclaimed property sales are standard proceedures. Neither the warehouse owner or the buyer knows ahead of time what is being sold. Since there is no mystery there, the government investigators must be stuck on how exactly someone gets an item listed on ebay. I have actually found the ebay interface fairly understandable, but if the investigator are not computer savy it may present some problems I am sure. Next step of course will be to investigate how exactly the antique dealer got that little blue star next to his name. Very suspecious indeed.
    • After the "blue star" investigation they should investigate how that new browser window simply "popped up" without me knowing about it!

      This falls in line with some research that I have done, involving the exploits of one british operative 00 (double-oh) 7 (seven).

      It seems he sabotaged an international arms auction. Afterwards he helped sink a "stealth boat". I wonder if this "antiques" dealer was at just such an auction...

  • Oooh... now i can spy on my girlfriend from 3000 feet up.
  • This guy in Jacksonville is a front for the CIA/FBI/NSA - see who buys this "lost" stuff and find out who/what/where/why on this person(s).... yeah, that's it...yeah, that's it...

    Just kidding, but with all the other goofy stuff that flies around out there, why not?

  • What's next? (Score:3, Funny)

    by PissingInTheWind ( 573929 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:38AM (#3630390)
    Drugs, kidneys, virginity... Now classified plane parts.

    How long before they get to sell an alzheimer-suffering ex-president on EBay?

  • Maybe the Australian Government should start ordering its military equipment over Ebay - it'll probably get there faster than the choppers they ordered [theage.com.au] *grin* N.B. I'm Australian, so it's hardly trolling or flamebait
  • was about a man who purchased things from government auctions for a living. Some of the things that he acquired included Reagan's automated signature signer and the tracking system of a ICBM. He returned the guidance system, but only after he got 3 offers for it in the 10 mil range. Thats how he discovered what the big box he bought contained.

    That still Cracks me up.

  • What's the fuss? (Score:3, Funny)

    by melquiades ( 314628 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:52AM (#3630480) Homepage
    Seems to me that the Air Force should have bid on the item like everyone else.

    I know things are tight at the defense defense department these days, what with only billions of dollars to waste instead of billions and billions and billions ... but I'm sure they could have scrounged up the money for a winning bid. :)

    Actually, I wonder if the reason the DoD can't seem to pass an independent audit [washtimes.com], and in fact can only account for about a third of their budget [cdi.org], is that they're already blowing all their dough buying antique lamp shades on eBay.
  • I'm sure they could have just outbid all the other people on eBay if it was that important to them. I'm just concerened that I can't get my wife the X-Band Weather Radar Modulator she wanted for our anniversary. Oh well.
  • This is just another example of how poor our government security really is... I'm moving to canada
    • In 2001, NPR had a story about how a sizable portion of Canada's ground hardware was stuck on a Russian shipping vessel just off the east coast because the vessel's owners wanted to be paid for the shipment back to Canada, the Canadian government had paid a contractor, and the contractor had gone out of business without paying the Russian shipper.
      • I think you mean this incident. [helis.com] I was in Canada at the time, and recall a few of the gorey details not mentioned in the AP story. Notice how it reads "from a helicopter", apparently they sent three helicopters but two had to go back because of mechanical failure. Also, I seem to recall that the choppers were really old like 20+ years, and that they didn't have enough spare parts to keep the majority of them opperational.


        It's a wonder they were able to destroy the Baldwin's compound with such ease. ;-)


        Next

  • Flea Markets (Score:4, Informative)

    by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @08:59AM (#3630515) Journal
    Heck you can find all kinds of things, some of the strangest things, at the MIT Flea Market [mit.edu]. Perfect for the budding and experienced mad scientist.

    There is also this list of electronics flea markets [mit.edu] for the North East

    I imagine there are a few someplace near silicon valley as well as CalTech, etc.

    ;-)


    • > I imagine there are a few someplace near silicon
      > valley as well as CalTech, etc.

      Hell no. Not at Caltech. Every night moles scour the piles of discarded equipment outside Jorgensen and Steele (our CS / EE) buildings and claim it for Caltech. It then goes for decoration, inceneration, or other mischief.

      We're not about to part with our cool stuff.
    • This reminds me of a old soviet-time anecdote:

      Q: Does the hydrogen bomb really exist?
      A: No. If it did, it would be on sale on Odessa flea market.

      :)
  • This quote is amusing..

    The magazine pointed out that rogue nations such as Iran routinely seek replacement parts for their U.S.-manufactured military planes.

    I just find it funny.. the US must have sold them the planes in the first place.. and now that Iran falls into an area under the Axis Of Evil moniker, its suddenly a serious problem that they try and obtain parts? Perhaps you should have thought of that...

    • Thats what capitalism gets you - everyone for themselves to make as much money as posible. Most politicians would sell their own kids if they would make enough. And since the CIA etc. _trained_ half the worlds rulers and terrorists it would stand to reason that it would give them a going away present of maybe a couple of warheads and some bombers. That reminds me, does anyone know the going price of weapons grade plutonium?

    • I just find it funny.. the US must have sold them the planes in the first place.. and now that Iran falls into an area under the Axis Of Evil moniker, its suddenly a serious problem that they try and obtain parts? Perhaps you should have thought of that...

      I hate to have to bring up actual history, but you do realize there was some revolution thingy between us selling the planes to the Iran and them currently seeking parts for them?

      No shit - look it up. Or maybe the 1979 Iranian Embassy Hostage Crisis [bartleby.com] rings a bell? You know, 1.5 years of American hostages, rescue mission gone horribly awry?

      • Well, Iraq got along without any revolutions. First they were the good guys and got a lot of nice toys (first gulf war), then - omygod - they suddendly were very bad boys and invaded Kuwait.

        • Well, Iraq got along without any revolutions. First they were the good guys and got a lot of nice toys (first gulf war), then - omygod - they suddendly were very bad boys and invaded Kuwait.

          The enemy of my enemy is only my friend as long as he doesn't turn around and beat up my other friends.

          If the US only allied ourselves with good guys, it would be us and Canada. And, quite frankly, that's only assuming Canada would have us.

    • Before you jump on the "bash the incompetent gov't" wagon, check your facts. Iran was a solid American ally in the late 70s, when the US sold them many warplanes, including ~75 F-14 Tomcats. Very advanced stuff for the time.

      Then there was a revolution. Iran's standing government was overthrown, and replaced by one that was hostile to the US. A hostile administration in possession of all that advanced technology is hardly a good situation, but not really the US government's fault. "Oh, we should have seen the Iranian revolution coming. Oops!" Get real.

      • Actually, we should have seen the Iranian revolution coming. We propped up the incompetent, corrupt, and increasingly unpopular government of the Shah and dismissed Khomeini as a fringe nutcase while he was gathering immense popular support. The CIA agents in the region spent all their time playing James Bond at fancy Tehran hotels and restaurants instead of gathering intelligence on the street.

        Other than that, what you said.
  • http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?Vi ewItem&item=1831196414&r=0&t=0
    Picture is not exciting. Just a circuit board.

  • Cooperation (Score:4, Funny)

    by mstyne ( 133363 ) <mike@alph a m o n k e y .org> on Monday June 03, 2002 @09:17AM (#3630646) Homepage Journal
    The Air Force is looking into the incident and Novocin is cooperating.

    Air Force: "You should be seeing a squadron of B-2 Spirits flying over your corporate headquarters in about ten minutes."

    Novocin: "Um, yeah, so whaddya wanna know?"

  • Not a surprise (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BoneFlower ( 107640 ) <anniethebruce@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Monday June 03, 2002 @09:35AM (#3630777) Journal
    I've seen ebay ads for high end crypto gear. Technically unclassified itself, but it was built to fill hardware crypto keys, the crypto being quite classified when paired with the hardware it went to. With a couple connections in the right places, someone could use that to fill a STU-III(secure telephone) with current crypto
  • Come on, we have 30yr obsolete technology that was lost in the mail, and it wasn't really looked for all that hard.

    It's not like anybody who wanted to know about this stuff, what with so many of our FBI and CIA agents selling information to anybody who had the $$$$.

    Hasn't anyone noticed how similar the Soviet Space Shuttle looked to ours?

  • What bothers me the most (Score:4, Informative)

    by T5 ( 308759 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @09:55AM (#3630925)
    isn't the altimeters or weather gear, but the IFF (identify friend or foe) transmitter. Properly coded (which is the hard part), this could prevent friendly forces from being able to automatically target an incoming aircraft from a hostile force, as well as providing a way for a hostile aircraft to approach friendly forces.
    • What bothers me the most is] the IFF (identify friend or foe) transmitter. I really, really hope that IFF does not depend on security by obscurity, but rather on keeping the codes secret and changing them often. Planes fly all over the world with the same IFF gear, some of them will fall into unfriendly hands. Of course, it makes a bit of a difference whether those hands are a Taliban peasant who doesn't understand anything more complex than an AK-47, or (say) a Saudi terrorist millionaire who can buy a research lab to analyze it... But at any rate, once a system like this has been widely deployed for a couple of years, you have to assume the guys with the most technological capability have obtained copies - so your security had better be in the codes.

  • Sign of the times.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by k98sven ( 324383 ) on Monday June 03, 2002 @10:00AM (#3630957) Journal
    Wow is the world changing, you can buy -everything- online now..

    (shameless plug..)
    I remember, back during the Cold War, we didn't have the internet,
    we had to sell these things at secret meetings with the "attaché for tourism" from the embassy of some shady nation..

    You had to get plane tickets to all these wierd,
    exotic locations like Geneva and the Caribbian, to meet these jerks. (They never even said thanks)

    Nowadays, I don't even have to leave my nice CIA office, and I always get the best price for my contraband! Ebay is great!

    (/shameless plug)
  • Anyone know where I can score a Hellfire missile?? I searched on Ebay under

    Stuff>> Parts>> Govt.>> Weapons>> Missiles>> Classified>> Anti-Radar>> Anti-Tank for "Hellfire" and I got NADA... But I did find a nice AIM-4D Falcon [whattheheck.com] that the Koreans are offloading...

    This is ridiculous! I had no problems picking up a sightly used Sun [whattheheck.com], 81" of snow [whattheheck.com], a Russian test space shuttle [whattheheck.com] and the Ark of the Covenant [whattheheck.com] (presumably being sold by one Dr. Jones)...

    I'm looking at a slightly used V-22 Osprey (no reserve!) on www.ebayplanesthatcrashoften.com, but even though it has no reserve, it's starting bid is $945M....

    I guess I'm just a dick. [whattheheck.com]

  • Too bad (Score:2, Funny)

    by r_j_prahad ( 309298 )
    If only Novocin had found a warehouse full of hammers and toilet seats, he could have been rich beyond his wildest dreams! Everybody in USAF procurement knows that's where the real money is.
    • hammers and toilet seats...that's where the real money is.

      Don't forget the toilet paper. Can't have our boys getting chafed you know. Sure as hell don't want 'em getting splinters from the TP like the $ENEMY_ARMY_OF_THE_DAY does.
  • ...X-Band Weather Radar Modulator...

    When I first read that, I was thinking of Marvin the Martian's Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator. I've always wanted one of those, but I keep getting outbid by some wasckaly wabbit.
  • THE X-Band Weather Radar Modulator.. that creature has stolen the Radar Modulator! There was supposed to be an earth shattering KABOOM!!

    *end marvin the martian voice*

  • than the price the government orignally paid?

    That's where the investigation should focus. :)

  • Damn (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Where the hell do you go to buy these unclaimed property lots, anyway? I want top-secret classified military gear too!
  • I think those items could have been sold for much more than that....

  • You [ebay.com] need [ebay.com] some [ebay.com] uranium? [ebay.com]

    I sure wish I had ebay when I was a kid...

  • Link to e-bay items... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Tails ( 20769 )
    Man, C5 radar components are getting expensive!

    Enjoy pictures and descriptions of the items in question:

    Military sales at ebay [ebay.com]
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The stuff was lost in a warehouse for 12 years....how "classified" can this stuff be? It sounds like a bunch of old radar equipment....big deal.

      My understanding of past situations of this sort is that the military is concerned about the release of technology that might be obsolescent by our standards and those of our allies, but is still more advanced than what our enemies (or potential enemies) have access to. A 15-year-old communications circuit might not sound like such a big deal to us, but if you're the Chinese military and are typically working with technology that's 20 years behind what the Americans are using, it might be a very big deal indeed.
  • Having purchased military surplus myself, I can honestly say that these folks have very little idea what they're working with. They're not paid enough to know that much.

    Add that to the fact that these miscellaneous boxes of stuff were lost in a warehouse to begin with, and, well, what do you expect? The real guilty parties were the ones who didn't track down the original boxes when they were lost. After all, they could easily have fallen in to the wrong hands back then.


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