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Internet Phones Replacing POTS In Japan 231

Posted by timothy from the overdue-over-here dept.
prostoalex writes: "CNN reports on growth of Internet phone services in Japan. The high cost of telephone calls, which many saw as an impediment to spread of the Internet is right now actually a menace to plain old phone companies, as more and more people are switching to VoIP services."
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Internet Phones Replacing POTS In Japan More

Internet Phones Replacing POTS In Japan

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  • I guess replacing it's easier than legalizing it.
    • I think you could be on the right subject. I guess they must be talking about either the drug or cooking equiptment because I'll be damned if I've ever heard of POTS before.

      Could someone please enlighten us as to what POTS is since the /. editors are too incompetent?

      Thanks.

      • POTS stands for P.lain O.ld T.elephone S.ervice. It's an old acronym for your typical analog phone. It was frequently used when describing 56k vs. broadband, but seems to have died down after the dot-bombs.

        I agree, spelling it out woulda been nice. But I did have fun with my pot joke. heh.

        Worthless trivia: AT&T Broadband sometimes lists the city in which a customer is in in their addie, for some reason Portland was shortened to 'potlnd'. Heh. I see that every time I go on IRC.

  • Overload. (Score:5, Funny)

    by AgTiger ( 458268 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @04:35PM (#4107645) Homepage
    So now someone's telephone can be slashdotted?

    • I wish Dialpad were still free ;)

      I have been looking but not seeing any new free PC to Phone stuff out there. It looks athat all you get are years old google references now and a few insanely complicated linux solutions -- All I want is my free phone calls back so I can call anywhere in the country (us) again.

      A Cheapskate I may be, but I have more stuff than thee. - Me

    • Not only slashdotted (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by Pac ( 9516 )
      You can call the operator and hear the fightening truth: dUd3, w3 0wN j00...
  • I was worried since i'm going to Japan on Sunday for a year abroad, that I'd be stuck offline for an entire year. If internet phones are big enough to threaten traditional phones over there, I guess I probably don't have to worry too much about that.
    • Uhhh... How much exactly do you know about Japan?
      • Well, I originally didn't think so, but then when I got accepted in to the program, all the literature pretty much said "Don't count on having internet access" etc.. mentioned the high cost of electricity and telephone calls as the major reasons for this. Therefore, I was kind of worrying.
        • But dial-up access costs a fortune. (Score:1)
          by stef0x77 on Tuesday August 20, @05:37PM (#4107654)
          (User #529972 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

          OTOH, because of the high phone costs, dial up access to the internet in Japan is insanely expensive. An impediment to getting online for many people.

          (it's posts like this that made/make me worry)
    • Which are will you live?
      As you are going to live about a year,
      subscribe ADSL. it's widely
      available and higher quality than in U.S.
      as far as I know(I'm Japanese and have
      friends in California.). Most provider
      are servicing 8Mbps and 12Mbps.

      Second option(if ADSL isn't available) is
      to use wireless internet service called
      Air H". it proviedes 128k connection
      w/ flat rate.

      Both cover most of mets area.

      Yes, traditional dial up connection is
      expensive in Japan. but ADSL and wireless
      connection became so popular, less and
      less people are depending on it. I personally
      don't use dial-up anymore.
      • Yes, traditional dial up connection is
        expensive in Japan. but ADSL and wireless
        connection became so popular, less and
        less people are depending on it. I personally
        don't use dial-up anymore.

        Am I the only one that finds it ironic that ADSL (which, unless Japan is even more funky then I previously knew about) which runs over POTS, is cheaper to get then just a plain old POTS dial up line?

        Bleck, VoIP isn't /naturally/ cheaper, it is just highly artificial market conditions that make it that way in some places. Bleck. POTS is about as low tech and old as you can get. (of course I am speaking as a US citizen, with the recent trend towards flat rate /long distance/ that is now getting started over here I admit that we here in the US are a tad wee bit spoiled. :-D )

      • Uh, the theoretical maximum for ADSL is 8mbps, and that's only achievable over short distances. To get 12mbps you need HDSL or VDSL, but those are even shorter ranged.

        Perhaps you're thinking of something else? Or maybe you're getting scammed? :)

  • Cringely (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Knife_Edge ( 582068 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @04:36PM (#4107649)
    I remember an old Robert Cringely column in which he said that a new technology will replace an old one (or win, or something like that), if it is either ten times better, or one-tenth as expensive. And sure enough, this article explains that the cost of a three-minute long distance call went down to 6 cents (I assume they converted from yen) from 68 cents. I'm not saying Cringely is always right, but this theory of his seems to apply in this situation.

    • Re:Cringely (Score:3, Insightful)

      by _ph1ux_ ( 216706 )
      that is true - however there is a major problem with people adopting things like this. *Lazyness* seriously. the ability to make good quality voip calls has been around now for a few years - and there were businesses that started up around this; quicknet, net2phone, dialpad etc...

      but the problem is that the telephone is something that has been around for eons when compared to the age of the internet. and people have a certain level of psychological loyalty to the institution of the phone company - desired or not... and its this state of mind (the phone bill is like the dial tone - its always there) which thwarts the efforts of businesses to capitalize on VOIP.

      even though everyone likes to bitch about their phone bills and the prices per minute that they are paying, its going to take the mob mentality to really cause a difference here in the states.

      it boils down to simplicty conquering lazyness of american consumers i.e. the phone is as simple as it can get. go buy one for ten bux - plug it into the wall. the phone company does the rest. the only thing you have to remember is your phone number. and for some, that can be hard enough.

      so until we can get close to that with VOIP capable devices... it will be an uphill battle to get them fully adopted.

      when you compare a shopping list of items that most of the consumer market associate with real VOIP (if they even know what it is) calls (computer (obviously not in this article... but the mindset of voip is voip==computer required) internet connection (==$50/month), *knowledge* ("but I dont know enough"), etc...) - to the phone, its a no brainer for people who want the lazy way out. even if they are paying "evil mci" etc too much.

      besides - people like hating the companies they pay their bills to.

      so whats really important at this point is to get people to see that VOIP is not just available, as good or cheaper - but JUST AS EASY as the phone. then we will get the ball rolling. and thats where these companies need to spend their marketing *and* development dollars.

      • Yes, VoIP has been around for a few years now... however, it's only just now getting to the point where it's not a toy. I remember a couple of years ago playing around with DialPad. I was seriously considering dropping my long distance carrier for the free DialPad as a means of offsetting the cost of a cable modem connection -- that is, until I actually used it. DialPad was so wretchedly awful that it killed my optimism for the service (and I *really* wanted to make it work). There was an echo on the line and a 2 second delay, in addition to the obvious drawback of having to always use a headset plugged into your computer to make phone calls. (Now there are IP phones that don't need to be plugged into a computer -- nice!)

        Anyway, it's very difficult to justify the savings on long distance when the quality is so bad, and traditional long distance in the US can be had for as low as 2.9 a minute if you shop around.

        Also, keep in mind that you won't be eliminating one bill, but merely shifting your money from one vendor to another. As the need for broadband becomes more prevalent, I believe you'll see broadband providers tax usage more and more to pay for their infrastructure. There's already been /. stories about this happening...

        So, no, VoIP is not yet a clearly better choice for the American consumer. give it another 10 years, I say. And by that time, maybe the POTS providers will be the ones leading the charge.

    • Re:Cringely (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jsse ( 254124 )
      Cringely is not much a visioneer, most slashdotters know it well. In fact it's difficult to replace traditional PBX system with VOIP gateway due to

      lantency in VOIP

      It wouldn't look bad when you are just chitchating with your friends with 1-2 seconds lagging in between, but it'd look awkward when your peer is an extremely short-temper but important client.

      If you don't believe me try calling your mother-in-law over VOIP. :)
  • OTOH, because of the high phone costs, dial up access to the internet in Japan is insanely expensive. An impediment to getting online for many people.
  • Been POTS free for 2 years(coincidentally pot free) and have never regretted it. However, VOip is a cool technology, I just don't understand the use of it in a home setting? I already have my cellphone with free long distance.
    • However, VOip is a cool technology, I just don't understand the use of it in a home setting? I already have my cellphone with free long distance.

      Cell phones are only usable if your telephone usage style is extremely basic.

      If you depend on routing calls around, intelligent decisions based on caller ID and time, etc., then you need something with a standard interface so you can connect to other equipment capable of taking your instructions and acting on them.

      In a home, some of this is just hobbyist geekery, but it really does make life easier once you get it going. In a business, it's pretty much essential unless the phone is not a significant tool in the particular line of work involved.

    • I just don't understand the use of it in a home setting? I already have my cellphone with free long distance.

      Free international? I doubt it. The article expressly talks about a call from Japan to NYC

      I live in Italy and we have a 10 mpbs internet connection with fastweb [fastweb.it] which includes unlimited local and national calling. It's all voip without a noticable depreciation in vox quality.

  • I quess this is the essentials from that article, which has lots of useless details, including description of someone's long-distance romance :)) :
    " More than 300,000 people have signed up for the service from BB Technologies Corp., a subsidiary of Tokyo Internet company Softbank Corp. That's easily more than three times the estimated U.S. consumer market. The service, which began in April, doesn't require a new telephone. With a book-sized modem, one gets voice quality comparable to that of regular voice lines -- at a fraction the cost.

    Subscribers to Softbank's Yahoo broadband Internet service get voice over Internet for free. Non-subscribers pay about $10 per month including modem rental after a $30 installation fee. Users keep their same phone number. The broadband service is an asymmetric digital subscriber line that runs over existing wires."

    • With a book-sized modem, one gets voice quality comparable to that of regular voice lines -- at a fraction the cost.

      They forget to say, "and with a hundred times the random dropouts."

      Granted, I haven't personally tried the service so I can't say anything from personal experience, but here in Japan the Yahoo BB! (ADSL) service is widely recognized as the worst in the country in both connectivity and customer service, and I have to admit I'd be surprised if they can do much better than that on VoIP. Thanks, but I'll stick with my 7c/3min NTT phone line for now.

  • And it will continue to grow in popularity. The old paradigm of having a phone hardwired in your house may die off completely considering the declining cost of wireless phones (CDMA and analog) and the increasing use of e-mail and VOIP.

    The phone companies will soon have to change their revenue strategies completely in order to enjoy the large market they've had in the past. AT&T continues to raise their prices (up to $.17/minute for long distance now) Pac Bell (here in California) now has value-added services galore. Broadband is being pushed hard (they now have stands set up in the grocery stores for crying out loud)

    Just as pagers are slowly becoming obsolete so are home phones. They are still handy, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the ever-increasing cost of having one, particularly when the taxes on them are starting to become almost as expensive as the service itself. You don't have to take my word for it; anyone reading this who lives in the Bay Area (CA) have a look at the taxes you pay on your phone. Ouch!
    • You don't think you'll see the same taxes moved to the other communications methods?
      sure, some people may enjoy a 'tax relief' but it is only a temporary one.

      I know somebody who had his phone line shut off, went completly VoIP and cell. He had to pay about 2 bucks a month NOT to be connected.
      • I know somebody who had his phone line shut off, went completly VoIP and cell. He had to pay about 2 bucks a month NOT to be connected.

        Okay, I don't get it. How does he end up paying $2/month not to be connected? Who is charging him this? Does he get a bill from AT&T every month for two bucks? He should just not pay it...

        I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'd genuinely like to know what you mean.
      • I was going to do that as well... but pacbell/sbc *requires* that you maintain "basic monthly service" on a telephone in order to be "eligible" for DSL.... pricks.

        hmm.... anyone want to join a class action law suit against pacbell / sbc with me?

        • I was going to do that as well... but pacbell/sbc *requires* that you maintain "basic monthly service" on a telephone in order to be "eligible" for DSL.... pricks.

          hmm.... anyone want to join a class action law suit against pacbell / sbc with me?
          • No, this makes sense. You are using
          • their lines for the DSL, so they have to be connected even if you're not going to make a single phone call. If you get DSL with a company other than your local telco (PacBell for me, I live in Santa Cruz and have DSL through Cruzio), your ISP must see a telephone number for you in order to determine if your line can carry DSL. In other words, it's not too agregious for PacBell to charge a few bucks a month for the telephone line, even if you're not using it for telephone.

            Don't get me wrong, it still sucks, you just couldn't sue them for it.
          • not true. DSL runs over copper wire. the only association with the phone number is for billing purposes - which makes it totally arbitrary - in that Phone companies in the past have lost law suits to people who were buying "alarm lines" (a pair of blank copper wires) between buildings and running DSL over them. the phone companies got pissed because that is an area they like to charge for...

            so - my phone lines having dialtone run over them is *not* a requirement for me to have DSL. hence the possibility of a class action law suit claiming that PACBELL is unfairly tieing the to services together. kinda like MS and IE.

            • You'd still have to pay them a monthly fee to rent the dry pair.
              • Yep. And the only alarm circuit I've ever had the pleasure of rigging for bandwidth was cheaper than than the cheapest POTS plan offered.

                Which is to say, that it makes the telephone company MORE MONEY to sell you POTS alongside DSL than it does for them to just rent you a dry pair.

                Which is to say, that it costs you MORE MONEY to buy POTS alongside DSL than it does to just rent a dry pair.

                Which is to say... who am I kidding? Did you fail your elementary math class, or are you just trolling?

  • Great service with Vonage. (Score:5, Informative)

    by www.sorehands.com ( 142825 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @04:42PM (#4107695) Homepage
    I have been using Vonage [vonage.com] for a few weeks and it has been great.


    They provide a Cisco ATA186. The only downsides are:

    • You need a home network, but I had one and a DSL router works.
    • You need a DHCP server, not a static IP network. It was easy to set it up, but they don't say so in the documentation.

    The advantage over cell phone is that there are no minutes! It is $39.95 a month and you can choose which area code you want a phone number in. You can forward it to a cell phone when out, or any other phone that you may be at.
    • VOIP is a great idea and all, but what about latency? When I'm on a cell phone, the latency (and echo) is really annoying and noticeable. International calls are even worse.

      How bad have you found it?
    • So the sound quality is good?? How about if you want to play Quake or something else, don't you get laggy performance?
    • I just called them to talk to them about their service... it says that their business hours at 8am to pm monday - friday.... (it is currently 4pm in SF) when I called, it rang a bunch and said that they were not available to take my call and suggested that I call during their normal business hours.

      what I wanted to know - which neither you nor they talk about, and what I have mentioned in a previous post - is that SBC/PACBELL *requires* that I maintain a phone with "basic monthly service" (dialtone) in order to have DSL. this means that if I were to sign up for vonage I would have the following bills:

      phone: 10.69 (says its the "flat rate service" - its actually 19.10 for me after adding caller id and anon call reject)
      DSL: 64.95 - I have statics - it seems you cant have static ips for vonage?
      vonage: 40.00

      ==115.00/month about for phone.

      that sounds cool - but when I look at my current bill from sprint 5 cents anytime for 2 months of usage: 58.00

      thats 2 months of calling... so it doesnt really work out. however I ****HHAATTEE**** phone companies (they are all theives) so that is my major incentive for switching.

      but what I want to know is how the one guy setup the free nationwide calling from payphones through vonage - that sounds like something i definitely want to try...

  • VoIP (Score:4, Insightful)

    by papasui ( 567265 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @04:47PM (#4107715) Homepage
    Many of the international calls that you make are already routed through VoIP systems. Eventually all systems will make their way to VoIP. The cable company I work for offers unlimited (and long distances is included) VoIP use for $19.95 a month and includes all the features my landline does and ends up costing me nearly $40.00.
    • Sorry to reply to myself, but the issue that has plagued VoIP is ensuring the service is 99.999% reliable. Imagine not being able to use your phone to call 911 because your isp's dhcp server went down.
    • I recently helped set up a cybercafe in Akure, Nigeria. Nigeria's telecommunications infrastructure has been in a dismal state for a long time, and it seems people are eating up new technology as fast as they can whenever it's available. People want to communicate ... and wherever there's an alternative to the POTS, they'll rush for it.

      For example, it was only recently (about a year ago) that cellphones were introduced to the market. Despite the fact that government regulatory bodies have made it unnecessarily difficult for companies to enter this market, there are already 3 operators, and within a year that industry has injected well over $1 billion into the economy. People don't bother getting land phones now...if there's cellular/GSM available they'll use it.

      Cybercafes are starting up at an almost alarming rate in cities all over Nigeria. One of the big markets that these cybercafes cater for is VoIP ... one could easily make a significant profit by offering international phone service to the US over VoIP, charging approximately 40 cents/minute. Net2Phone, the leading carrier here, charges only 10 cents per minute. I once saw someone walk into the cybercafe wanting to place a call to Lagos (in the same Nigeria), even though it would cost him 200 Naira per minute (about $1.45!).

      At the rate at which this market is booming, I can imagine what would happen when broadband access becomes widely available for cheap prices. VoIP could all but replace the POTS as the standard means for international telephony, with mobile phones for local/long distance calls. By the time there is a solid national communications network in place with enough bandwidth, VoIP could even become the dominant means for local and long distance phone service, especially since it's already gaining serious popularity. The POTS could easily become totally irrelevant!

      As far as I know, the situation in most African countries is similar to that of Nigeria, although many of them may not have the level of development in the comms industry that we do. But I believe that this continent probably has the largest potential market for VoIP (and mobile phones) right now.
  • Lots of people I know only own a cellphone, and don't bother getting a POTS line at all. In areas with cable broadband there's really no reason. Modern cellphone plans have insane numbers of free local minutes and mostly 'local' refers to a larger area than the landlines - for instance my cell is local to San Jose from SF, but a landline call would be long distance.

    I have a POTS now, but its mostly for my DSL to run over. When I move I'll either get Cable or a DSL provider that doesn't require a landline. Here's hoping Pacbell goes bankrupt.
    • I have a POTS now, but its mostly for my DSL to run over. When I move I'll either get Cable or a DSL provider that doesn't require a landline. Here's hoping Pacbell goes bankrupt.

      Same thing for me, but I always forget to pay the POTS phone bill. It's so completely non-important that I always put it in the Pay Later pile, which invariably turns into the Disconnection pile. I've spent almost $100 on calling cards to Japan in the last month. Do VoIP work international as well as they do domestic, and do most VoIP providors charge extra. I have no idea where to even look for reliable VoIP data. If my soon-to-be-wife has issues getting her greencard, I'm expecting many more phone cards to be purchased.
      • I've spent almost $100 on calling cards to Japan in the last month

        Since you're using pre-paid phone cards, you might look into using a pre-paid dial-around service like bigzoo [slashdot.org] for your international calls. I call Japan for $0.064/minute with a $0.75 per month fee. Domestic long distance is $0.029/minute (home state included). I find this is cheaper, per minute, than my cell-phone bill. Based on actual usage anyway.

        I'm pretty sure that to offer these kinds of prices to the consumer, bigzoo must be running VoIP somewhere along the line.

        As with most things - YMMV...

        • The big thing that I have a problem with is calling cell phones. My fiance has a cell, and that is pretty much the only way to get in touch with her. She's staying at her parents house right now, with one phone, located right next to where her dad sleeps so not convenient when he goes to sleep really early. I have one card that I get $.06/minute and there is one that has a $1.50 connection charge that is $0.01/minute. The problem is calling cell phones jumps it up well over $0.17/minute and that is usually promo cards that you can't get all the time. $0.24+ is the average. *grumble*

          That and a lot of times when I call a cell phone using VoIP routed cards, there is a 2 second latency on the conversation which sucks horribly.
      • sounds like you should make your own direct connection... especially since you are primarily talking to one person over there.

        go get two linejacks from quicknet.com (or phonejacks which are PCMCIA)

        set them up as direct gateways - and you can call from your machine to her machine - and since they have DSPs built onand rather good software (even linux drivers) the quality will be pretty good.

        although their managment sucks - their products are actually not bad.

        otherwise see if that mail order bride company has one ready with her green card...

        just kidding :P

        good luck.

        • set them up as direct gateways - and you can call from your machine to her machine - and since they have DSPs built onand rather good software (even linux drivers) the quality will be pretty good.
          The problem with this is that her computer is right next to the phone. Which, is right next to where her dad sleeps. She went over there 4 weeks ago, and promptly bought a cell phone so I can call her at any time. Pre-paid calling cards suck at this. One card will consistently route me to a rather polite, but disgrunted Japanese fellow. One gives me at least a 2 second latency, another refuses to make the connection 90% of the time.

          The only calling cards that seem to work are those that are $0.05+ more a minute.

          good luck.
          Thanks, I leave to go over there (and get married) on Friday. :)

    • In areas with cable broadband there's really no reason

      Unless your home network has a redundant power supply you either need a cellphone or you can't be sure you can call 911 when you need to

    • Modern cellphone plans have insane numbers of free local minutes and mostly 'local' refers to a larger area than the landlines

      There are still those of us hold outs who just HATE cell phones though. :-D

      I keep on trying to lose mine but people keep on finding the damn thing. . . . ;(
  • So you need to boot up your computer if you're going to receive a call? How would you know? Telepathy?

    Note to those running servers at home: I wouldn't like to have one next to my bed ;-)
    And those IP phones are quite expensive.
    • So you need to boot up your computer if you're going to receive a call? How would you know? Telepathy?

      Look into the Cisco ATA-186. You can plug an old-fashioned $5 POTS phone (or anything else that acts like one) into it. No computer required.

    • Yeah, I have one next to my bed (my personal workspace tends to stay cluttered, and my roomate was complaining). Girls... anyway, the server got moved out of the living room and into my bedroom a week ago, along with a few other boxes. The fan noise you can tune out, but you really do notice the heat. Of course, this is the same girl that ran up $400 in calls to France and Ireland last month, which has me shopping for VOIP service... maybe she should be more tolerant of the overflowing ashtray and CDs everywhere since I'm trying to save HER money... nah, never happen.

  • hmm.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by the way, what're you ( 591901 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @04:55PM (#4107757)
    POTS? Don't you mean WOKS?
  • Isn't this going to choke the internet bandwidth. either at the back bone level or the plain old router level. I mean I would be steamin' mad if some idiot sharing a router with me was streaming a video phone while I'm trying to mount a remote hard disk. While the internet backbone may have excess bandwidth local switches dont.

    Furthermore isn't Voip ultimately more expensive if you actually had to pay for it? I mean the reason internet service is so cheap right now is that I dont gobble bandwith 100% of the time. If everyone fully utilized their dsl connections theoretical I think we would all be paying more and getting crappier service.

    • How is this any worse than all the On-Line games such as Quake, Half-Life, Warcraft3, Etc..?

      These games send a significant amount of traffic over the internet, yet most people don't bitch about them taking up the bandwidth.

    • Isn't this going to choke the internet bandwidth

      Actually, voice is very low bandwidth. You should be more concerned of someone mounting a remote harddisk while you are trying to talk to someone. Getting hit by a DoS while trying to call 911 would be a bad thing, too.
    • > Isn't this going to choke the internet bandwidth.

      Bandwith requirements for VoIP in ISDN quality: 64kbit/s. So it can easily fit into a DSL up and downlink. The backbones for voice can be used for data, too.
      They are just a little bit too sophisticated for dumb packet switching.

      > If everyone fully utilized their dsl connections theoretical I think we would all be paying more and getting crappier service.

      This is true for every service, so lets ban everything, except gopher and a mail programs, except SNDMSG.

      Why is there a need for a 3G mobile network? (Well, that's a question one shouldn't really think about it, because it could cost some people their job...)
      At least theoretically, more bandwidth for data services.

      See the positive side-effect:
      All the unused reserves in bandwith for voice and data are then shared.

    • Not really. For every VOIP call, you can take away one analog call, replacing it with a digital call. Digital allows you to put several calls on one wire, so in theory, if everyone moved to VOIP, then all those analog wires could be used for digital, and there would be MORE bandwidth than before.

      Note, in practice, the phone companies moved most calls to digital except the wires closest to the customers. The theory applies though.

  • Phone companies shouldn't be scared.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ADRenalyn ( 598918 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @05:07PM (#4107814)
    They should recognize this as an alternative solution , and capitalize on this opportunity. The mentality they choose instead is one we have seen elsewhere (U.S. Postal Service, RCIAA, etc):

    If people are changing from my service to one that is more flexible and cheaper, then I am inevitably screwed.

    These people need to take a lesson in business! As far as I see it, if a new technology is making my current service/product obsolete, then I need to study this new technology so that I can offer it myself. If thats not an option, well then you buy stock in whatever company is succeeding you! ;)

    Seriously though... I do have a question about the "ownership" of the actual lines used to transmit the VoIP- The article states that it will be using existing wires, and users will have to pay a 'line fee' to the company that owns the physical wires. So does that give the owner any control over how it is used?

    -ADR

  • Traceroute, at last... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dmuth ( 14143 ) <doug,muth+slashdot&gmail,com> on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @05:08PM (#4107825) Homepage Journal
    There's one reason why I've always wanted VoIP: traceroute.

    At my old home, I had a dialup connection to my ISP. About once or twice a month when I would dial in for the evening, I would hear *static* on the phoneline. I'm talking like a noisy AM radio type of static. I would hang up the modem, dial in again, and the static would be gone.

    My best guess is that there was a faulty wire *somewhere* in the telco's network that was causing the static, and I was unfortunate enough for my call to end up on that wire. (Remember, POTS is a circuit switched network [techtarget.com], the same set of wires is used for the duration of the connection) Of course, when I called Verizon, there was absolutely no way for me to reproduce the problem reliably, so they couldn't do much to help. Had I some equivilent of a way to do a traceroute, I could simply say, 'the link between switch-5.verizon.net and switch-32.verizon.net is dropping packets, please put that in the trouble ticket so the techs can fix it'.

    So yeah, I'm a little giddy about VoIP. Almost makes me wanna get a T1 to my current residence and drop the POTS line I have now... Well, I can dream, I suppose.

    I'll stop babbling now...
    • the same set of wires is used for the duration of the connection

      The same set of wires is used for every call. The only 'wire' likely is the one between your house and the CO. From the CO to the rest of the network it is very likely optical, unless you live in some stumblefuck rural area.
    • At my old home, I had a dialup connection to my ISP. About once or twice a month when I would dial in for the evening, I would hear *static* on the phoneline. I'm talking like a noisy AM radio type of static. I would hang up the modem, dial in again, and the static would be gone.
      My best guess is that there was a faulty wire *somewhere* in the telco's network that was causing the static, and I was unfortunate enough for my call to end up on that wire. (Remember, POTS is a circuit switched network [techtarget.com], the same set of wires is used for the duration of the connection)

      On anything other that museum pieces the only individual set of wires are the local loop. Anything else is multiplexed over either copper or more likely fibre. A T1 isn't a bundle of 24 pairs it's a single 1.5M connection split into 24 channels. If it breaks 24 channels break, not one out of the 24.
    • Get a T1 line and share it, then charge your neighbors to connect. I've considered it, but many of my neighbors are college students and move every 6 months. If I lived in a more stable neighborhood, I'd actually consider it.

    • And they'll say... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Tenebrious1 ( 530949 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @09:14PM (#4109054) Homepage
      "Have you rebooted your computer?" and "Let's check your dial-up networking settings..."

      No, it won't make any difference.

      Had I some equivilent of a way to do a traceroute, I could simply say, 'the link between switch-5.verizon.net and switch-32.verizon.net is dropping packets, please put that in the trouble ticket so the techs can fix it'.

  • Vonage DigitalVoice (Score:4, Informative)

    by grahamsz ( 150076 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @05:14PM (#4107859) Homepage Journal
    I've recently signed up to vonage digital voice and the techincal service is fantastic.

    With some wrangling i've since taken the ata-186 router back to scotland with me. I work for a company in the USA and this gives me a californian phone number and (once i upgrade to the $40 service) unlimited minutes across the usa.

    Latency doesn't seem to be a problem although i'm definitely with one of the better uk broadband providers. I'll also soon experiment with setting up QoS on my network to ensure that my 1024/256 doesn't saturate to the point that my voip packets drop.

    The main downsides to vonage are:
    - They dont let you have the password to the Cisco router which YOU have bought from them - meaning you cant use the second line or easily connect it to a h232 gatekeeper to do intelligent things with.

    - They wont bill any credit card which doesn't have a US billing address and wont ship outside of the US (and guyana for some reason)

    • [quote]

      They dont let you have the password to the Cisco router which YOU have bought from them - meaning you cant use the second line or easily connect it to a h232 gatekeeper to do intelligent things with.

      [/quote]

      Did you try "cisco"? When I had DSL service in Cincinnati, OH all the DSL modems had a password of cisco. That, and the password encryption that was used to store the password in the config was ROT-13. So if you could put a console on it and do the control-break startup procedure (don't know if it works on that model), you could probably decrypt the password.

  • calls on internet
    cost less than traditional
    users migrating

  • Burning question, (Score:4, Funny)

    by Spackler ( 223562 ) on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @05:17PM (#4107878) Journal
    homes of the future will be linked over the Internet through all kinds of devices, not just telephones and computers but also home entertainment centers, ovens and refrigerators.

    So in this utopian future, a script kiddie will be able to order a steak from my fridge, transport it to my oven, and burn it like my wife, with my stereo blaring "All your filet mignon are belong to us"?
  • There are too many problems with VoIP currently to be able to successfully replace POTs on a widespread basis. Scalability, security and reliability are just a few to mention. Granted the switched networks have their problems too, but nowhere near the problems that could happen if a country was running purely VoIP.

  • In Other News (Score:2, Funny)

    by dmarx ( 528279 )
    The TIAJ (Telephone Industry Association of Japan) announced that they would be asking the Diet [Japanese Congress] to pass the DMTA (Digital Millennium Telephone Act), which would make VoIP illegal. "These people get all the benefits of telephone service, but none of the profits go to us!", TIAJ chairman Shinji Shinjisan said. "This needs to change."

  • Phones (Score:2, Insightful)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 )
    Lots of people use email and IM to keep intouch with friends/relatives and avoid phone bills, especially students :) Most windows installations come with Netmeeting which is an audio/video phone and there are probably free/open alternatives. People need normal phones because they are.. simpler. They have an easy interface, they dont need to load up software, they dont crash, or need re-installing and they are cheap. Also, people like to have a handset that they can slam down, and it feels stupid leaning over your desk to talk to someone with a crappy little microphone. If your willing to pay a fee for the priveledge of having a line then they are fine. Also, i wouldn't trust my computer if i needed to phone in an emergency, infact i dont even trust my mobile, it crashes plenty.
  • On my home phone, I get telemarketing calls maybe 2-3 per day. On my cell phone, I don't get any. In my inbox, I get 40-100.

    Seems to me we've crested the peak and are heading down the other side of the spam curve.

  • interesting features (Score:3, Informative)

    by AssFace ( 118098 ) <stenz77.gmail@com> on Tuesday August 20, 2002 @07:04PM (#4108500) Homepage Journal
    I worked for a company that wrote software for a Japaense company's VoIP phones. Those things had some cool features - you could download pictures off the net and use them as icons on the phone's display, and you could download mp3s and use them as the ringer - a different one for various callers, as well as different "lines".

    it was neat to see since really nobody uses them here in the states - but apparently it is really big over there.
  • But a 3G wireless phone might one day replace your microwave oven. Assuming you have enough talk time to cook both sides of the terriyaki.

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