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KDE GUI

What To Expect From KDE 3.1 393

Posted by timothy from the tabcandy-braincandy-candy dept.
Moritz Moeller - Her writes "As most of you desktop users already know, the KDE Project recently released KDE 3.1beta2, which will be the final development release before KDE 3.1. The good news is, KDE 3.1 is scheduled for release in just a few weeks. The following page gives a nice overview about what is coming with many screenshots. It will certainly be the best KDE ever."
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What To Expect From KDE 3.1 More

What To Expect From KDE 3.1

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  • Oh well (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:19PM (#4457513)
    It's really a shame SuSE wouldn't wait for this release before shipping their product a couple weeks before. It truly has a large number of improvements over 3.0.x. Oh well, perhaps other distros listen to their users' wishes more?
    • Hopefully they'll offer an update for it...
    • shame SuSE wouldn't wait for this release before shipping their product

      If every distro waited for updates, no distro would every be released. I currently use SuSE for sparc64, release 7.3 for quite some time, lucky for us, the developers released 3.2 GCC and new kernels (tweaked for sparc32/64) in rpm format us.

    • Re:Oh well (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mczak ( 575986 )
      There will obviously always be an update you "really need" to some program in the distro - now it's KDE 3.1, then probably XFree 4.3...
      IMHO a lot more important is that they include gcc 3.2, since this is something you cannot upgrade later. KDE 3.1 OTOH can be very easily upgraded (of course, modem users won't like it), suse packages of kde are usually available almost immediately.
      mczak
      • There will obviously always be an update you "really need" to some program in the distro - now it's KDE 3.1, then probably XFree 4.3...

        There probably will be an update you "really need" if your card isn't supported by the currently supported version of Xfree86 supported in Debian.

    • Everyone always says this (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JoeBuck ( 7947 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:52PM (#4458078) Homepage

      Because a GNU/Linux distribution consists of a huge number of independently developed components, there will always be some cool new upgrade to some important package that comes out just a bit too late to make the cut. In many cases, "too late" can mean "two months before ship date", or even more, for any distributor who bothers to do testing before shipping. Waiting doesn't help, because then someone else upgrades their package, and so on. GCC, XFree86, Gnome, KDE, Apache, mysql, etc. all have their own schedules.

      In any case, if 3.1 has cool new stuff, you may want to wait until 3.1.1 for the bugs in the cool new stuff to be fixed. This is no shot at KDE, the same is true for all other big projects.

      • In any case, if 3.1 has cool new stuff, you may want to wait until 3.1.1 for the bugs in the cool new stuff to be fixed.

        Over in FreeBSD land folks have set up regular builds off the KDE CVS to allow for much more testing than in the past. It's part of the FruitSalad project (not gonna link it, cause I don't wanna crash it) which you can fine linked from the KDE on FreeBSD [kde.org] project site.

        Anyone doing something similar for any of the Linux distros?

    • Re:Oh well (Score:2, Informative)

      by Obasan ( 28761 )
      If you went to the download section of SuSE's support center you would notice the SuSE KDE service which offers fresh SuSE RPM's of the latest versions of KDE.

      http://www.suse.de/en/private/download/index.htm l

      Go to the section titled 'LinuKS: SuSE Linux KDE Service'. Enjoy.
    • I seem to recall the previous SuSE shipping just before the previous KDE. It would prevent ever getting anything shipped if you waited for the new versions of all of the packages, but I think, if your release cycle is the same length as some major package, it would make sense to release later, rather than before.

      • Re:Oh well (Score:3, Informative)

        by joib ( 70841 )
        Yeah, but adjust your release schedule according to which major package? As it stands now, many distros nudged their scheduled so they could release with gcc 3.2. While many desktop users may never touch the compiler, in this case it's important since gcc 3.2 has a different C++ ABI than previous versions.

        Another point is that major releases of big projects tend to have quite a few bugs. If you wait a while you can use the bugfix releases, which inevitably follow any big release.

  • Best one ever? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:20PM (#4457522)
    Well, that's a relief. I was worried that the newest version would suck worse than all previous versions. *whew*

    AND it looks more like Windows95? Awesome!

  • You mean... (Score:5, Funny)

    by fungus ( 37425 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:20PM (#4457523)
    "It will certainly be the best KDE ever."

    Better than the future releases? Woah, I must download that now.

  • It's fast... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:22PM (#4457540)
    Using it since lunch. Every KDE release seems to get faster and faster. It's actually faster than fluxbox. F' plain window managers if full desktop environments are faster than them. F' twm.
    • Using it since lunch. Every KDE release seems to get faster and faster. It's actually faster than fluxbox. F' plain window managers if full desktop environments are faster than them. F' twm.

      Yeah, it's too bad their servers aren't nearly as fast under the /. load.

    • Re:It's fast... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by qortra ( 591818 )
      I use Window Maker (which I would probably put in league with fluxbox) on my desktop, and I much prefer it to Gnome or KDE, even aside from the speed issues. One of the reasons that I switched to linux (from an MS platform) was to try out new interfaces and see which one I found most functional. And it turns out that I'm more productive with Window Maker than I am with many full desktop environments (KDE, Gnome, Windows). Having the choice of different and sometimes simpler desktop interfaces will always be welcome in my opinion.

      • WindowMaker!. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by octothorpe ( 34673 ) <[etwilson] [at] [gmail.com]> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:15PM (#4457903) Homepage
        Yea, I keep wanting to like KDE (and Gnome) and always try out the newest versions, but somehow I always seem to end up back with Window Maker. It's fast, clean, stays out of my way, does what I need. I'm not knocking KDE, it's an impresive piece of work, but that's the great thing about Linux (or BSD) isn't it? You get to use what you want and not what Bill or Steve think you should use.
        • I have modpoints but I'd rather just agree with you - Icewm, with its themes, lightness, options, and double-height toolbar is whta does it for me. it makes me happy. And I can choose. Linux is free - and that means more than just $$$'s. makes me happy.

    • Re:It's fast... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dimator ( 71399 )
      Well actually, I've been thinking of switching from KDE to something lighter. The reason is that I don't really *use* KDE. In other words, I click on the Big K menu roughly never. The apps I use are rxvt, gvim, mozilla, xmms, and sometimes konqueror for file management.

      But the fact remains that Kicker keeps me around. I love the way it behaves, I can configure it easily, all my favorite tray utilities are running, I can switch desktops with no effort, etc. If I can find something similar to Kicker without all the KDE extras, I guess that would be a fair compromise.

      • Re:It's fast... (Score:2, Informative)

        by shellbeach ( 610559 )
        Try IceWM [icewm.org] together with the ROX [sourceforge.net] desktop. You'll find you've got an ultrafast desktop environment that retains a lot of KDE functionality (multiple desktops, taskbar, tray, "start" menu, etc) together with one of the best file-manager applications ever written, for any platform.

        I was in a similar situation a year ago to you - I loved having a taskbar (which is what originally converted me from a steadfast Enlightenment user) but hated the horrible overhead of KDE, coupled with it's long start time and the pain of using Konqueror. I found that I never used Konqueror for file management - I still used an xterm as I had always done before. But ROX has completely converted me - I've been using it for a year and find it indispensible.

      • Re:It's fast... (Score:3, Informative)

        by fault0 ( 514452 )
        You can try what I sometimes use in my .xinitrc:

        kdesktop --no-x-root& (I think this is the arg)
        kicker&
        exec fluxbox

        You can subsitute fluxbox for kwin, as they are quite similiar in speed. Fluxbox has tabs though :o

    • Re:It's fast... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tempest303 ( 259600 )
      hahaha, right. I have no doubt that this is faster than previous KDE releases, but you're smoking crack if you think that KDE is actually faster than any of the *box WMs (flux, black, open, etc)

      Glad to hear it is getting zippier, though. GNOME and KDE are ok speed-wise, but they could both stand to get better. The 2.5 kernel becoming stable (in the form of 2.6/3.0) and put into distros will help too, with all the preempt, new schedulers, etc. Those also really provide nice speedups for GUI latency.

  • For those who read the article (Score:3, Funny)

    by Wise Dragon ( 71071 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:24PM (#4457559) Homepage
    Andreas> P.S. Let's please be nice to each other, OK?
  • well... at least we won't have to wait too long to do a KDE-less install of RH8, then install KDE3.1 and skip the RH mangling part of it...

  • KDE Preview (Score:2, Informative)

    by yamcha666 ( 519244 )

    Is it just me or is the kde.org server extremely slow? Is this related to that downtime I heard about a few days ago?

    Anyway, I do have to admit, KDE is one of the more attractive desktop environments - even better than WinXP (with its ugly green/blue combo - it don't work). I would use KDE as my main desktop environment, cause my favorite distro - Mandrake installs the d.e. by default. But I've never decided to use KDE (nor GNOME) because the two are extremely fat and slow on low-end systems. Even on my high end systems, I'd rather give up looks for power and speed.

  • Meaty! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by T-Kir ( 597145 )

    Now this is looking to be a nice upgrade.. as a bit of an art junky I'm pleased at the nice amount of eye candy they're including.

    Roll on the release date, I just hope this nicer front-end will appeal to those non-Linux users... we might have to start doing 'interviews' with people who have switched to Linux, redress the balance a bit!

    • Shiny eye candy, no doubt about it. However this begs the question - what about the those of us who prefer our desktop to be darker, moodier, and more subtle? While I acknowldedge that the new looks are bright and happy and very attractive, I find myself longing for something parallel but not quite so liable to burst forth into Pikachus and/or Hello Kitties at any moment.

      Then again maybe there's just a theme somewhere that I should be downloading but am not. Anyone?

      • I have my dark days as well (I do have every Nine Inch Nails album!), but the new Theme manager does look interesting to say the least.

        I suppose the artists (me included, if I had the time) should get their bottoms into gear and get the dark and brooding (but stylish) themes started!.

      • I'll second this. Specifically, what I'm looking for is a KDE theme that matches this GTK theme [freshmeat.net] and this XMMS skin [xmms.org]. KDE Look [kde-look.org], this site where most people tell me to go, didn't really have anything appropriate. Just a lot of Aqua clones.

        • You do realize that the color schemes in KDE are completely independent of the styles? Pick a style and window decoration theme based on the shapes that you like, and then change the colors to whatever dark mood you feel like.
          :Peter
          • Ah, sorry. I should have been more specific. I love the way styles and colours are seperate, but I'm basically looking for a grand-unified-colours-icons-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of thing. I've been trying to roll my own, but I suck at graphics (icon designers hmust have the patience of Job) and was hoping someone else had already scratched this itch.
      • Yes, you're right "angry toad." A lot of desktops look very similar with the kind of vibrant colors... I think that the blue, yellow and all that is pretty much a just a generic desktop theme because no one will look at it and think it's exceedingly strange looking.

        Personally I prefer all white. I think the darker colors are pretty overused and don't look quite as good.

  • For those late to the party, here's the article... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Hank Scorpio ( 137966 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:30PM (#4457603) Homepage Journal

    As most of you desktop users already know, the KDE Project [kde.org] recently released [kde.org] KDE 3.1beta2, which will be the final development release before KDE 3.1. The good news is, KDE 3.1 is scheduled for release [kde.org] in just a few weeks.

    KDE 3.1, the strongest KDE release to date, promises new goodies for just about everyone who gets to enjoy the full KDE desktop experience. Here is a sampling of what is in store for you:

    [kde.org] Browsing with Tabs. The many fans of tabbed browsing will be delighted by this new addition to the KDE web browser ( Konqueror [konqueror.org]) (screenshot [slashdot.org]). To simplify downloading a large number of files, a new download manager (KGET), which fully integrates into Konqueror, has joined the network package (kdenetwork). It manages any number of downloads in one window, where transfers can be added, removed, paused, resumed, queued or scheduled. A dialog displays transfer status, including progress, size, speed and estimated time to completion.

    [kdenews.org] Eye Candy. [kdenews.org] The artistically-inclined KDE contributors have showered us with a basket of new eye candy. As shown in this screenshot [kdenews.org], KDE 3.1 will ship with the contemporary Crystal icon set as well as the original new Keramik theme. The screenshot also shows the new drop-shadows. To help manage these stunning themes, KDE will provide a new theme manager with improved theme style and color decoration previews (screenshot [kdenews.org]). Menus and other desktop windows can also use attractive drop shadows, as shown in the screenshot above.

    Personal Information Management. On the PIM front, the email client ( KMail [kde.org]) [lernst.de] has gained several privacy and security enhancements - namely S/MIME, PGP/MIME and X.509v3 support - in collaboration with the Aegypten project [gnupg.org], an IT security project sponsored [newsforge.com] by the German government (screenshot [kdenews.org]). The calendar / scheduling application (KOrganizer [kde.org]) features a new Exchange 2000 plugin. The address book (KAddressbook) has gained the ability to fetch contact information from one or more LDAP servers. It can also print contact information and import industry-standard vCards.

    While not included in the 3.1 release, [freehackers.org] the next quantum jump in KDE's email / groupware architecture is scheduled for KDE 3.2, when KDE will ship a completely copy-lefted, integrated groupware system. Currently known as the Kroupware Project [kroupware.org], it is being sponsored by the German government and will integrate the major KDE PIM [kde.org] applications (screenshot [lernst.de], screenshot [troll.no]). More about this project, and some additional screenshots, can be found on the dot [kde.org]. KDE 3.2 will also feature the ability to use Vim as the mail composer (screenshot [freehackers.org]).

    File Management. The file manager (Konqueror) has a number of new goodies, such as folder icons which reflect a folder's contents, a video thumbnail generator and a number of plugins for providing enhanced- or meta-information about various file types (e.g., images, binary packages, source code). The file search utility can now search file meta-information for searching multi-media files.

    [kdenews.org] Desktop Sharing. For those who switch work stations frequently, KDE offers a new VNC [att.com]-compatible desktop sharing framework. It enables users to share a KDE desktop across multiple machines (screenshot [kdenews.org]).*

    Enterprise. Enterprises, Internet cafes and similar users will appreciate enhancements to the KDE Kiosk framework (the Kiosk framework provides an easy way to disable certain features within KDE to create a more controlled environment). In addition, the panel (Kicker) now supports fully customized menus.

    Multimedia. The multimedia framework (kdemultimedia) has a new video decoder based on Xine [sourceforge.net]. Xine is a video framework which provides support for various video formats, such as AVI, DivX, Cinepak, Sorenson Video, MPEG 1/2 and 4, QuickTime / MOV, ASF and others [sourceforge.net].

    [slashdot.org] Games. For the playful among us, KDE 3.1 will offer a number of new games in the games package (kdegames), including a golf game ( Kolf [katzbrown.com]) (screenshot [slashdot.org]), an Atlantik and Monopoly-type game ( Atlantik [unixcode.org]), a Blackjack game ( Megami [freekde.org]). and a Same-like game ( Klickery [sourceforge.net]).

    Ease of Use. A number of other improvements are meant simply to make the desktop easier to use and configure. [slashdot.org] For example, the application finder (KAppfinder) provides a nice tree view for selecting the applications to include in the KDE desktop menu hierarchy. Two new user notification methods have also been added for providing non-obtrusive informational messages: a passive popup window (KPassivePopup), which pops up next to the application's entry in the panel's taskbar (without stealing the focus), as well as messages which appear in an application's title-bar (KWindowInfo). In addition, the control center (KControl) has received a face lift and better organization (screenshot [slashdot.org]).

    Miscellaneous. Of course work under the hood continues for KDE 3.1 as well. It provides a number of speed improvements, such as Konqueror start-up time, a number of usability enhancements by the KDE Usability Project [kde.org], as well as almost 1,000 critter fixes.

    More information about planned KDE 3 features is available for KDE 3.1 [kde.org] and KDE 3.2 [kde.org].

    Some interesting KDE statistics: the KDE CVS source code repository consists of about 2.6 million lines of code (LOC) (for comparison, the GNU/Linux kernel version 2.5.29 consists of about 3.1 million lines of code). The KDE Project consists of hundreds of active contributors, with 300 of them translating KDE into over 70 languages (KDE 3.0.4 shipped in 51 languages). In May 2002 over 11,014 CVS commits were executed. The KDE website has 24 official mirrors in 16 countries and the KDE FTP site has 71 official mirrors in 30 countries.

  • Configuration is a problem (Score:3, Insightful)

    by peterdaly ( 123554 ) <{petedaly} {at} {ix.netcom.com}> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:31PM (#4457615)
    I don't know if they have fixed any of this yet, but historically kde and Gnome have been to hard to configure due to having too many configuration tools all named similar things.

    I have problems getting the correct tool to configure things manytimes on the first try, it's no wonder new users have problems.

    -Pete

    • Er. kcontrol and gnomecc? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      historically kde and Gnome have been to hard to configure due to having too many configuration tools all named similar things.

      I'm confused. Since at least 2.0 (Probably back to 1.x days, I hadn't used KDE then.) KDE has had exactly one control panel app, kcontrol. It's always been in the same place on the default KDE toolbar.

      Similarly, Gnome has gnomecc which is one app, and I believe has been around since the 0.40.x days.

      Where are these multitudes of configuration tools you speak of?

  • Browser integration (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jungle guy ( 567570 ) <brunolmailbox-generico&yahoo,com,br> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:35PM (#4457638) Journal
    It is a good thing they are concentrating in improving Konqueror. Mozilla is great, but it drags on my desktop. Just like Galeon is much faster in Gnome than Mozilla.

    It is kind funny, though, that KDE is integrating a browser with the desktop environment. Back when Microsoft did that with Internet Explorer and Windows, they received a lot of criticism.

    Don't get me wrong there - the guys in Microsoft are guilty for their monopolistic efforts to demote Netscape. The deals with the OEM integrators are shameful. But integrating the browser with Windows was a right option made by the IT staff.

    • Re:Browser integration (Score:4, Informative)

      by npietraniec ( 519210 ) <npietranNO@SPAMresistive.net> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:01PM (#4457807) Homepage
      Well, Konqueror gives you the option of using the mozilla rendering engine with konqueror via kmozilla. I'm tried it out here in Redhat 8 and it works quite well. Windows' desktop manager is also integrated into the OS. KDE is not...

      Microsoft kinda offered you less choice.
    • First, the people who design & write software aren't "IT" (information technology), they're "SE" (software engineering). ITs are the installers and configurizers, and they're certainly lower on the foodchain than a real SE. (At a technical institute I visited, there was a very formal hierarchy: students enrolled as Computer Engineering or EE, flunked 1st semester and switched to Computer Science or SE, and then became IT after flunking again).


      2ndly, Microsoft Windows(tm) isn't a "desktop environment" (unlike KDE). After version 3.11, it because an entire operating system. Integrating a web browser into the operating system is a big technical mistake, because it infects the OS with instabilities and inefficiencies that are tolerable in a standalone application.


      SE guys (like myself) get angry whenever bad design choices are made to support marketing needs. Microsoft wanted to bundle Internet Explorer(tm) and Windows(tm) into a single product for marketing purposes, so they glommed the source code together in ways that hurt performance of windows as a whole. (Anyone who used Windows98 (tm) much will remember how easy it was for IE to corrupt the whole OS). Numerous compatibilty and security problems were spawned by the "excessive coupling" of browser and OS. (So far KDE is avoiding this trap, because it treats Mozilla quite nicely)


      (To be fair, they had other reasons to integrate IE- for instance, to create the illusion that it was smaller/faster than Netscape Navigator, which was forced to install all its own code)

      • (Anyone who used Windows98 (tm) much will remember how easy it was for IE to corrupt the whole OS).

        And WindowsME, and Win2k, and WinXP.

        Just on Monday night a mate brought over his Win2k laptop, which had been reinstalled that very day, so that he could grab a few gigs of music from my server. IE , which was idle in the background, spontaneously crashed. This then caused Explorer to have an unintelligible error, causing CPU usage to rise to about 85% (we were doing nothing except copying files over smb)! Exlorer continued to copy files for about 20 mins ("256118237 minutes remaining"), then crashed, causing his file transfer to be stuffed up. This all happened while we watched, with our hands off the computer, running a newly installed OS which was doing nothing at all except for copying files over the network.

        I just can't believe that people use Windows as a server OS! But getting back to my original point, IE can do a lot of damage in all Windows versions, not just Win98.

        bukharin

      • Re:Browser integration (Score:5, Funny)

        by electroniceric ( 468976 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:53PM (#4458084)

        (At a technical institute I visited, there was a very formal hierarchy: students enrolled as Computer Engineering or EE, flunked 1st semester and switched to Computer Science or SE, and then became IT after flunking again).


        Kudos to this school for teaching its students the essential skills of the software industry: thinking you're smarter than everyone else, not interacting well with other people, and resolutely explaining technical minutia whenevery a situation is threatening.

        I've been wanting another degree - where do I enroll?

    • Re:Browser integration (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dimator ( 71399 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:12PM (#4457875) Homepage Journal
      For all the flaming Microsoft gets for copying stuff, it's amazing that KDE doesn't get the same. Just looking at the screenshots, its clearly evident that windows XP's style has definitely had influence on the KDE artists, in terms of icon style, colors, etc.

    • Re:Browser integration (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JoeBuck ( 7947 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:37PM (#4458021) Homepage

      Konqueror's integration is completely different from IE's integration. IE isn't just integrated into the desktop, but is wired deep into the bowels of the OS, using interfaces not available for other apps. Microsoft made the design as non-modular as they could on purpose, just to kill Netscape. They scrambled up IE DLL's with system DLL's, just to make it painful to remove IE.

      Konqueror just uses the same classes that any other app can use. It has no privileged position. Furthermore, you can run Konqueror from a Gnome desktop.

      • Konqueror's integration is completely different from IE's integration. IE isn't just integrated into the desktop, but is wired deep into the bowels of the OS, using interfaces not available for other apps.

        Name just one such interface.

      • Re:Browser integration (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Nailer ( 69468 )
        but is wired deep into the bowels of the OS, using interfaces not available for other apps

        Otherwise, this would exist [hypermart.net].

        Oh wait. It does.

    • When do you [censored] finally acknowledge that Microsoft was only "critizised" because they signed an agreement with the government not to bundle a browser with Windows.

      Then they broke that agreement and went to court.

      Why do people get the idea that contracts, laws and agreements don't apply to Microsoft?

    • Re:Browser integration (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Metrol ( 147060 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2002 @04:01AM (#4460068) Homepage
      It is kind funny, though, that KDE is integrating a browser with the desktop environment.

      You've got this a little backwards, though it may look very much the same to an end user.

      Konqueror itself is just a shell that can embed components. One of those components just happens to be khtml, the web browser. It also embeds a media player, file manager, image viewer, and probably a few other goodies I've neglected to mention. You simply have one window capable of a variety of embeddable tasks.

      Microsoft took the approach starting from the browser, then getting things to work around it. It's an entirely different approach, but the end result "appears" to be what KDE is doing.
  • Did they finally fix all of the bugs from the 3.0 release? Have they made 3.x a little more backwards compatible from 2.x? I made the mistake of upgrading from 2 to 3 thinking that the KDE would upgrade all of my old desktops, configurations, settings, etc. - I was barely able to get my mail out of KMail, and I lost all of my filters and rules in the process. KDE may have a pretty face, but I think the development work so far ( ESPECIALLY the documentation ) is half-assed at best. At BEST.

    Want to impress me? Probably not, but I'll tell you anyways; it's real easy: fix the bugs. Write real, useful, consistent documentation. Set up the KDE so that when the many, many programs that core dump do their usual crash I'm able to automatically send that to the KDE people without having to run a 20-minute wizard. Write your fucking desktop program so that people upgrading can do so seamlessly and painlessly - just because you give me an open source desktop doesn't mean you ignore everything else BUT the source code. bah

    • Re:What would make it the best KDE ever? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Moritz Moeller - Her ( 3704 ) <`ten.xmg' `ta' `hmm'> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:10PM (#4457864)
      > Did they finally fix all of the bugs from the 3.0 release?

      They fixed thousands of bugs. Especially usability bugs, those are hard to fix.
      Check out an overview here
      http://bugs.kde.org/reports.cgi?product=-All-&outp ut=show_chart&datasets=RESOLVED%3A&datasets=CLOSED %3A&datasets=FIXED%3A&datasets=WORKSFORME%3A&links =1&banner=1&quip=0

      The data is incomplete due to the recent switch to bugzilla.

      > Have they made 3.x a little more backwards compatible from 2.x?

      Who is still using KDE-2.x? KDE-3.0 was released months ago. Many of the old settings have no equivalent anymore, e.g. the filter format in kmail changed.

      > ESPECIALLY the documentation ) is half-assed at best

      That is true. Go ahead and write some, it will be included.

      > Set up the KDE so that when the many, many programs that core dump do their usual crash I'm
      > able to automatically send that to the KDE people without having to run a 20-minute wizard.

      Huh? This is already done ATM. backtracing without debugging symbols is senseless anyways.

      > Write your fucking desktop program so that people upgrading can do so seamlessly and painlessly

      Why don't you stop insulting the people donating software to you? Shut your mouth or help the project.
      • Who is still using KDE-2.x? KDE-3.0 was released months ago. Many of the old settings have no equivalent anymore, e.g. the filter format in kmail changed.

        Debian woody/stable users? The unofficial kde3 packages are not even up to date.
    • > Write your fucking desktop program so that people upgrading can do so seamlessly and painlessly

      This is really the distrobuter/packager's job. KDE only provides source in the form of tarballs, with not much regard to what the system beyond that is (except what OS it is).
    • Write your fucking desktop program so that people upgrading can do so seamlessly and painlessly

      Why I left Linux behind. This is a distro issue, not KDE's. On FreeBSD, to upgrade from 2.x to 3.x looks just like this...

      # pkg_delete -rf qt*
      # portinstall kde3

      This removes the old stuff, compiles the new stuff, and installs it. Don't have time for a compile?

      # pkg_add -r kde3

      Done.

      I am forever amazed at the folks that can actually get stuff like RPM working properly to upgrade large packages like this. I'm guessing these folks are not that numerous, as there appear to be a lot of folks posting here waiting for their distro to come out with a totally new release just to get KDE updated.

  • why i love kde (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    i was a long time GNOME user that recently switched over to KDE. i don't want to start a flame here but i think people should know why i changed over. i am one of these persons that had high expectations into GNOME 2 but i was not really impressed the first time i loaded it up. i was following a lot of conversations on *.gnome.org mailinglists and saw that the future GNOME 2.x is targeted the 'untechnical new users'. with other words they target the 'no users desktop'. they are assuming a lot of never confirmed things about their users. things like "the user don't know what a window manager is" or "the user don't know what themes are" and similar things. some of them are sounding really offensive and make you think that the GNOME developer have a bad sense for their users. not to mention that nontechnical users never heard or know what linux is. it's a shame to see how they cripple their own GNOME into a pile of shit. a lot of people that i know of left GNOME in favour to KDE. personally i never thought that this may happen for me too but i recently left GNOME in favour to KDE and i feel really happy now. i finally have the feeling to be productive. i want to thank the kde people so much.

    here are some contexts to proof that i don't simply troll around for no reasons:

    http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usabili ty/2002-October/msg00021.html
    http://mail.gnome.o rg/archives/usability/2002-August/msg00261.html

    some people that got really fedup with GNOME 2.

    http://galeon.sourceforge.net/g2ui.html

    t his is called a GEP. GNOME 2 has a lot of these GEP's read the last paragraph and how they threaten users.

    http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum .php?thread_id=1176218&forum_id=6200

    one of the core developers of GALEON 2 (one of the few remaining ones) left.

  • favorite new updates (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JDizzy ( 85499 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:52PM (#4457750) Homepage Journal
    Wow, sounds like a bunch of new features for the corporate user, like the Exchange200 plugin! Let face it, for users like me FreeBSD+KDE3.0 is perfect for the home/developer environment, but when I take my laptop back to work..... it really sucks to have to use imap on my exchange server!

    Personal Information Management. On the PIM front, the email client (KMail [kde.org]) Meeting invite has gained several privacy and security enhancements - namely S/MIME, PGP/MIME and X.509v3 support - in collaboration with the Aegypten project [gnupg.org], an IT security project sponsored [newsforge.com] by the German government (screenshot [kdenews.org]). The calendar / scheduling application (KOrganizer [kde.org]) features a new Exchange 2000 plugin. The address book (KAddressbook) has gained the ability to fetch contact information from one or more LDAP servers. It can also print contact information and import industry-standard vCards.

    While not included in the 3.1 release, Vim editor the next quantum jump in KDE's email / groupware architecture is scheduled for KDE 3.2, when KDE will ship a completely copy-lefted, integrated groupware system. Currently known as the Kroupware Project [kroupware.org], it is being sponsored by the German government and will integrate the major KDE PIM [kde.org] applications (screenshot [lernst.de], screenshot [troll.no]). More about this project, and some additional screenshots, can be found on the dot [kde.org]. KDE 3.2 will also feature the ability to use Vim as the mail composer (screenshot [freehackers.org]).


    What? Vim as my Email editor, yea-haw! Thats awsome considerign that I have to force myself to move the fingers away fromt he HJKL home keys to scroll around in Mozilla (you vi users know what I'm talking about!). Encrypted, and digitally signed email is always nice too, ayet another client to support that stuff is a good thing(tm).

    I think the best news was abotu the Xine integration, so I can finally avoid installing thsi myself, as freebsd installs allthe KDE border apps. All in all, a thing to look out for when it is released!

  • Eye candy? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zelet ( 515452 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:54PM (#4457761) Journal
    It is sad that the developers of KDE think that eye-candy is the most important thing to improve in KDE. Maybe they should think about making KDE more concise. Also, cleaning up the MANY menu items would be nice. I'm not a troll... I'm not flaming... I am speaking my mind. I think that KDE developers would do more good working on cleaning up what they have and not adding more junk to sort through.
    • The only real piece of new eye candy seems to be keramik. It's not even default, just an option in kpersonalizer (started the first time an user runs KDE).

      Most everything else are bug fixes, new features/apps, and _usability_ cleanups (like kcontrol, which is much better than before, but still needs to be cleaned up).

    • Re:Eye candy? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Isle ( 95215 )
      Funny, when KDE 3.0 people complained about the lack of new eye-candy.

      The point is: first we released KDE 3.0 which was a technological improvement, but looked and behaved exactly like the old KDE's, in the mean time people have saved up all their wishes for new features and visual improvements and now these have become KDE 3.1

      3.1 has more new features more new visual improvements than 3.0 because 3.0 was focused on improving technology and software infrastructure.

      So basically what are you complaining about? you got what you asked for in 3.0.
  • And if any of you noodleheads make a joke about 'Can't wait for KDE 3.1.1', your head will be immediately smacked and your boxen will be quickly r00ted.

    And that's UNCLE Stefan to you...

  • BSD and KDE (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @07:57PM (#4457780) Journal
    Funny, I've had talks with 2 guys who run BSD, (freebsd and one netbsd), and both just wanted KOffice, but didnt want to bother with the (their terms) Bloat of KDE. Both came back with the same argument, If I wanted that fluff, I'd run XP.

    These guys will spend hours tweaking the the look of window maker and not realize thats EXACT reason why people want KDE.
    But KDE goes a step further to offer all the Glueware apps people want, remote desktop control, pim syncronizers, mime type GRAPHICAL file managers, and the other countless useability features they put into the desktop.

    BTW, I'm super freaking happy Mosfet [mosfet.org] is BACK, and releasing a new Liquid engine/theme for KDE. This and the new XFT2 font anti-aliasing, I could do the happy dance. :)
    -
    Distrowatch [distrowatch.com]

    • Re:BSD and KDE (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      While Mosfet might be a decent programmer, he's about as stable as a Windows 95 beta.

      While he always praises Linux and KDE, he switches back and forth ALL THE TIME. Every other week its, "Well I'm no longer developing under Linux anymore". Next week, "I'm back".

      Kind of reminds you of Ross Perot.

  • Screenshots here, get yer screenshots.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by kajoob ( 62237 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:00PM (#4457799)
    Here are a bunch of screenshots [kdenews.org] for your enjoyment while the current server is recovering...

  • M$ ad (Score:5, Funny)

    by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:03PM (#4457823)
    I wonder who at M$ was the one who decided to buy an ad for this story. Ah well, the sweet irony of clicking on an M$ ad in a KDE story thus generating additional revenue for /. :-).

  • More bloat m8! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by miffo.swe ( 547642 )
    As much as i like KDE i dont like the direction its taking. Personally i just want a working desktop that i can tweak and turn to my liking. What i dont want is applications and settings scattered all over and 10 ways to do the same thing. Integrating net enabled applications into the desktop is a sure way to bad security and should be avoided. Integrating everything and the kitchen sink has its disadvantage when it comes to bugs that are multi dimensional. They are very hard to find and sometimes impossible to fix without breaking stuff.

    Kde should concentrate on doing a great desktop and stop from integrating applications deep down into the core. You can do the same things much more shallow and not at the expence of security. Soon KDE will be its own distribution and that cant be what they strive for.

    • Dude, there's about a zillion different kinds of X desktop setups out there. The KDE folks want to make one kind. You want a different kind. Now, with that in mind, what's the logical conclusion?

  • Theme Gripe (Score:5, Informative)

    by cjsnell ( 5825 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:31PM (#4458000) Journal
    I have a gripe regarding the theme used in this [kdenews.org] screenshot:

    UI developers: please stop using curves in widgets and window decorations unless use can use alpha blending to make the edges of the curve look smooth. I'm sorry but monitor resolution just isn't sharp enough to make curves look good without alpha blending and anti-aliasing.

    • Err, that's "you can use", not "use can use".

      ("Yeah, jerky, use guys better fix that damned theme or I'm gonna wrap your head in with a crescent wrench!")
    • Um, most of those *ARE* antialiased curves. At least the corners of the ovals in the window titles and the corners of the OK buttons are. Try zooming in on the sample image. It does look like the corners of the windows themselves are not antialiased, though.

  • KDE Switch Campaign? (Score:5, Funny)

    by EugeneK ( 50783 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @08:42PM (#4458042) Homepage Journal
    Apparently this is a new KDE marketing campaign about a *REAL* Gnome user who switched. They seem to have taken it down; luckily I saved a copy!!

    Gnome to KDE: Mission Accomplished, Convert Thrilled [hiro-tan.org]

  • file browsing w/ tabs? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bilbobuggins ( 535860 ) <`moc.tnujtnuj' `ta' `snigguboblib'> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @09:25PM (#4458305)
    can someone clear this up for me?

    can you browse your files w/ tabs or just web pages?
    i would love tabbed based directory browsing, especially if they could do the photoshop combining tabs into windows thing (of course then Adobe sues them)

    ah if only my C was better (or any good at all) i'd give it a shot myself...

    • Re:file browsing w/ tabs? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Anything in Konquere can be browsed with a tab. If you want to have one tab with audiocd:/, another tab with http://www.slashdot.org, another tab with lan:/, and another with file:/usr/lib you can.

      The tabs are so you can have seperate konqueror "views" without multiple instances of konqueror running.
    • The Konqueror file browser works w/ the tabs.

      I don't believe you can do anything fancy w/ the tabs though.

  • Integrated Groupware (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Tuesday October 15, 2002 @10:02PM (#4458525) Homepage
    I relalize that they have a theme going, naming things starting with a 'k', but surely someone else out there things that "kroupware" isn't the best name for a groupware program. "kgroupware" would be ok, "kooperate" would be good, even "kommunity", but "kroupware"? I had the kroup a few times as a kid and it wasn't fun. I like KDE, but if I have get the kroup to use it...

    OK, OK, it's a bad pun/joke, but I hadn't seen it yet, and you've got to admit, there are better names they could use.

  • Useablilty (Score:3, Insightful)

    by e8johan ( 605347 ) on Wednesday October 16, 2002 @02:38AM (#4459781) Homepage Journal
    Since there has been much discussion of the "Linux on the Desktop" issue, I feel that the Kiosk framework will give KDE a real edge!
    This is really what I miss when I try putting Linux boxes in an environment with computer illiterate users wanting to poke around. They try fiddling with the settings just as they do on the Windows boxes. Their fiddling around has been great for me as a admin since I've gotten a great argument for upgrading to later (more lockable) windows versions, thus not having to cope with the notoriously unsafe, crashing, generaly sucking Win9x boxes. Now I run Win2k locked down so that they hardly may move the mouse and I long for the day when I can get them to run Linux boxes without letting them fiddle around and come crying about some "lost icons" or something else.

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