1.5 TB DVD by 2010 318
prostoalex writes "The consortium of three universities and four Japanese companies is investing $25M into a project, that is supposed to deliver a 1.5 TB (that's a terabyte and a half) Digital Versatile Disk by 2010. The Inquirer story quotes multiple layers being used for storage." More importantly, they claim that this will be backwards compatible to existing DVD technology.
Nice to see the correct name (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:2)
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.dvdforum.org/tech-dvdprimer.htm
What does DVD mean?
The keyword is "versatile." Digital Versatile discs provide superb video, audio and data storage and access -- all on one disc.
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/officialfaq.html#
[1.1.1] What do the letters DVD stand for?
All of the following have been proposed as the words behind the letters DVD.
Delayed, very delayed (referring to the many late releases of DVD formats)
Diversified, very diversified (referring to the proliferation of recordable formats and other spinoffs)
Digital venereal disease (referring to piracy and copying of DVDs)
Dead, very dead (from naysayers who predicted DVD would never take off)
Digital video disc (the original meaning suggested by some of DVD's creators)
Digital versatile disc (the meaning later suggested by some of DVD's creators)
Nothing
And the official answer is? "Nothing." The original acronym came from "digital video disc." Some members of the DVD Forum (see 6.1) tried to express that DVD goes far beyond video by retrofitting the painfully contorted phrase "digital versatile disc," but this has never been officially accepted by the DVD Forum as a whole. The consensus is now that DVD, as an international standard, is simply three letters. After all, who cares what VHS stands for? (Guess what, no one agrees on that one either.
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:2)
I've found lots of other pages stating the same thing.
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:5, Funny)
I think it stands for vapor now
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:2)
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:2)
Re:Nice to see the correct name (Score:2)
Unfortunately (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unfortunately (Score:3, Insightful)
So you assume that all that big space are for DVD rips and MP3s? How about storing gene info? Backups? Anyone?
Re:Unfortunately (Score:2)
A complete record of everything in your life so far - as will happen once phones all have full-motion video cameras, and are left on all the time - could easily fill a terabyte however.
Re:Unfortunately (Score:2)
I patented your genetic code, retrieved from a hair sample, last week. You can't afford to store your genetic code.
Backups?
Backups are illegal under the Ernest P. Worhl Copyright Act (EPWCA) of 2005.
Anyone?
People may not be duplicated under the Arnold Ziffle Anti-Cloning Act (AZACA) of 2007. Disney holds the copyright to most people anyway.
Re:Unfortunately (Score:2)
Space requirements for "gene info" are either modest or laughable (depending on your definition of "gene info"), by todays "enterprise" standards
As an example: GenBank contains basically all published sequences, and the whole thing is only about 80GB (if memory serves), but the pure sequence in it would only take up slightly more than 5GB (assuming a binary format, ie two bits per base).
Here's their stats [nih.gov] page.
Re:Unfortunately (Score:2)
That's why they're using multiple lawyers for storage!
Re:Unfortunately (Score:2)
hosted only on one dsl
You know what? It's easy to take a revenge. Just post where it is to Slashdot and we'll handle the rest...
And in other news... (Score:3, Funny)
Of course... (Score:3, Insightful)
In other news.... (Score:3, Funny)
"It will also be backwards compatible with standard DVDs, the reports said, with its storage ability equivalent to around 300 DVDs using the current format"
This new technology will drive you to work, make love to your frigid wife, baby-sit the kids, wash the dog and the car. Yes, folks, the year 2010 will be a great one. All thanks to this DVD and $25mil.
Re:In other news.... (Score:2)
More interestingly, the article states: (Score:5, Funny)
Wow. Woweewow.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of those.
Oh. Wait. I have one of those in my back yard.
Re:More interestingly, the article states: (Score:5, Funny)
(10) WINVIEW: Error reading "cum lolitas.jpg". This problem has been automatically reported to Microsoft with a full profile of your computer.
(9) Due to overwhelming user request, "Clippy and his Crew" are now an integral part of the operating system and can not be disabled.
(8) Corruption in ADVERTIS.DLL. Windows halted.
(7) You have been idle or unproductive for the last thirty seconds. Activating HIVE parallel processing...
(6) HIVE
(5) Application terminated unexpectedly. Please do not blame this on Microsoft again.
(4) Give me more honey!
(3) Give me more, honey!
(2) Wrong BigDVD key. Stinger engaged.
(1) DRM violation detected. Replacing your yellow-and-black stripes with black-and-white ones, please wait...
Top Linux 3.4 kernel boot message:
iBee processor (986) detected.
DRM extension detected, workaround enabled.
Re:More interestingly, the article states: (Score:2)
Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these - or would that be a swarm ?
Backwards compatible? (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, we don't want to give Hollywood and the DVDCCA another shot at locking us out. The CSS cat is permanently out of the bag for the lifetime of the DVD format, but a new format would provide them an opportunity to come up with some sort of freedom-restricting technology.
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:4, Insightful)
If HDTV is really coming, they may be
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2)
Just for the record, not only is HDTV really coming, it's already here. I've owned an HDTV-- an absurdly expensive top-of-the-line Sony model I bought on a whim after coming into some extra cash; the burden of being a videophile-- since this summer. There's something on in HD 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. HBO and Showtime are running movies in HD via DirecTV, and all three major nets are broadcasting most of their prime-time schedule in HD. PBS is showing a lot of HD content, and the Discovery Channel set up a whole new channel just for HD programming. Even the WB is running shows like Smallville in HD; can't say I care for it, but it's fun to watch with the sound off. Hell, CBS is even running some of their soaps in HD. The playoffs are in HD, the Superbowl will be in HD next month, the Oscars will be in HD next spring.
There's still a heck of a lot more SD than HD out there, but HD has definitely arrived.
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2, Informative)
15 years to buy DVD players?
In 1983 the first CD players were released in the USA.
CD's have only been out ~ 20 years, DVD's half of that.
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2)
It's "CD's" and "DVD's," not "CDs" and "DVDs."
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2)
First, if you followed the thread on V=video vs. V=versatile, you'd know DVD stands for DVD, is short for DVD, and is an abbreviation of DVD. In other words, the word is 'DVD'. DVD is not an abbreviation.
Second, only lower case and single letter abbreviations get 's. Others just get an s.
DVDs, CDs, cgi's, A's.
( http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/pubstyle/ch6_1.htm and http://www.wooster.edu/psychology/apa-crib.html#a
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2)
I dare say that the well-respected and venerable Chicago Manual takes precedence in general use over the very specific EIA and APA style guides, particularly given the fact that the EIA guide, at least, explicitly notes that the recommendation for acronymic pluralization contained therein differs from that given in a more general style guide.
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2)
Actually, it took about 15 years for the industry to produce a replacement. I'm pretty sure that if there were $150 DVD players and all new releases were on DVD in 1990, consumers would have bought in just as quickly then.
Also, we don't want to give Hollywood and the DVDCCA another shot at locking us out.
That's a pretty silly policy - avoiding progress because of potential risks. Besides, who's to say that Congress won't have finally hammered out some decent fair-use legislation by then?
Re:Backwards compatible? (Score:2)
TB GB MB Is Obsolete (Score:4, Funny)
The trend unit is "how many equivalents of library of congress" does it hold?
Re:TB GB MB Is Obsolete (Score:2)
Re:TB GB MB Is Obsolete (Score:2)
Re:TB GB MB Is Obsolete (Score:2)
If are considering text only, then the Library of Congress is aproximately 100 Terabytes. We can call this unit measurement 1 LCT (Library of Congress Text)
If we add images that are in these books, as well as their map collection, then we are up past a Petabyte (1000 Terabytes). We can call this unit 1 LC (Library of Congress - ALL).
Question: The trend unit is "how many equivalents of library of congress" does it hold?
Answer: Each of these new discs has a storage capactiy of 0.015 LCT, or 0.0015 LC.
Planet P Blog [planetp.cc] - Liberty with Technology.
Re:TB GB MB Is Obsolete (Score:2, Informative)
The LoC is approximately 100 Terabytes. I would love to the see the goatse that approximation came from
Here is a little math of my own
1 page 8x11 is roughly 50 typed lines, 80 characters per line. That is a little large for most books, but gives us something to work with. That is 4,000 characters per page on the high end, and assumes that a page is mostly typed and not white space.
Two hundred pages is about the average, pulled right from goatse.cx but close enough for government work. 200x4,000 = 800,000 characters in a full book. Lets stretch it just a little and say there are lots of fat books, make the average 1 million characters (bytes) per book.
A million books, at a million characters (text only) per book is 10^12 bytes, or a full Terabyte. In ASCII form, one terabyte could hold the text of one million books, assuming 200 pages of single spaced (no white space) pages. For reference, Neuromancer by William Gibson as text (including the copyright notice at the bottom) is stored in an ASCII file 472,253 bytes in size. So might we say that half a million bytes is closer in size to average we are up to 2 million books stored in text only form on a 1TB disk.
How many books are in the Library of Congress? Dunno. Are there two million? Probably. Extrapolate that to your 100TB estimate and we are presuming two hundred million books in the LoC, each about the size of Neuromancer. Every man in America would have had to write two full 200 page novels, get them published to some degree, and then into the LoC to have that many. I am guessing that the LoC has closer to 3 million books in their archives.
3 million books at 500,000 characters apiece and Voila! this new disk could hold all of them (ASCII format.) Thus the new unit of measurement is born : the LoC = one of these disks = 1.5TB
It still wouldn't hold all of my porn, though.
Re:TB GB MB Is Obsolete (Score:2)
Didn't Neal Stephenson use "Boeing 747 full of encyclopaedias"?
Slashdot can teach us many things (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks captain obvious!
Re:Slashdot can teach us many things (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Okay.... (Score:2)
So much data -- a little OT (Score:4, Interesting)
But, this also makes me wonder... Our ability to process information has stayed the same (e.g., it still takes me awful lot of time to read a small book -- let alone the LOTR), but the amount of data is just exploding.
May be there would be some new technology that leads us into faster/better processing of the tonnes of information?
S
Re:So much data -- a little OT (Score:2)
Yes, it's called a 'computer'. Seriously, not trying to be a troll or anything, but that's precisely what the field of computer science has been working on for decades now. The machine I'm typing this from really is nothing more than a glorified calculator, multiplied by several orders of magnitude.
The basic idea behind a computing device is to speed up data processing - and to handle amounts so vast the human mind can't deal with it all. Remember, before electronics, a 'computer' was actually a reference to a human being.
Nice quote from the article... (Score:3, Funny)
Hmm... so what that make my Pentium III equivalent to? A cockroach?
Re:Nice quote from the article... (Score:2, Funny)
Thats the funniest thing I've read in a long time. I can't wait to use it against someone. (Where they think that it is a complement) "You're as smart as my 1.2Ghz Pentium III!"
Sweet (Score:2)
Unified Paranoid Theory (Score:2)
1000 hours of film footage of you, plus every transaction you have made with credit card, through paper work, and what have you, will all be put on one of these bad boys, and tin foil is not going to help.
I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
Re:I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
kernel.org [kernel.org]
kazaa lite [kazaalite.com]
sourceforge [sourceforge.net]
edonkey [edonkey2000.com]
video capture [192.216.185.10]
have fun filling up that hard drive...
oh, and you'll probably need on of these [mwave.com] soon
Re:I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
Re:I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
Re:I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
Re:I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
I've come pretty close [snerk.org] to filling my 80GB Western Digital that resides in my server, and the 20GB and 40GB that make up my workstation are getting pretty close to filled based on;
With more coming (Comanche 4, Silent Hill 2, Hitman 2: Silent Assault, etc) as soon as I upgrade my video card. That's not to mention the fact that I've got;
Gentoo 1.4
FreeBSD 4.7
installed presently. Video editing does eat up a lot of space, but there are probably dozens of reasons why a person would require large amounts of storage capacity. A friend of mine with 30GB worth of MP3s, another friend with several game CD images stored on his drive (he hates hunting for the CDs), a colleague who runs a recording studio and deals with raw, uncompressed digital audio, etc. etc.
The 15GB drive in my laptop is getting a bit brimming right now, since I have to have three operating systems and a lot of data (network maps/plans, company information, images, price lists, development tools, etc.).
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I still haven't filled my 60GB HDD... (Score:2)
When recordable CDs came out, I backed up my entire floppy-based game collection to one.
Games have been using multiple CDs for a while now, I expect them to use multiple DVDs a few years from now. And you know it won't really be 1.5TB... They said DVDs could hold 34 gigs, then they said 17, then they said 9, and sadly what most people have are 4 gig DVDs...
DVD technology? (Score:2, Interesting)
But wait a sec... with which DVD it will be compatible? DVD-R ? DVD-RAM? DVD-RW? DVD+RW? There are more then enough DVD-xxx technologies already, and if rate of creating new ones will be the same, I think in 7 years they will have at least 3-5 new more to choose from!
What happened to Constellation 3D? (Score:4, Interesting)
You'll notice that their website no longer exists. It did stink of vapourware from the beginning, but I had a glimmer of hope that it would become something. Here [semiconductorfabtech.com] is the most recent press release I could find on the subject, but it's from early 2001.
They said they'd have their terabyte discs out "within a year or two". Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait until 2010 now...
2010? (Score:3, Interesting)
I imagine that if one of these gets scratched you're gonna lose a whole lotta data unless it has some sweet error correction going for it.
LOTR 3 in 1 (Score:3, Funny)
Re:LOTR 3 in 1 (Score:2)
LOTR Full Set (Score:3, Funny)
That ought to be just enough to hold the LotR collectors edition with all 3 special editions, all 3 regular editions, and 56.2 hours of special footage detailing every aspect of every actors life, and every thought that went through Peter Jackson's head in the last 12 years (not to mention, Sean Astin's 6 hours of bitching about how his hobbit sized underwear kept riding up while filming) all on ONE DVD! In both Widescreen and Fullscreen formats!
Awesome!
Re:LOTR Full Set (Score:2)
Re:LOTR Full Set (Score:2)
Re:LOTR Full Set (Score:3, Funny)
But The Silmarillion deals with the history of Middle Earth before the events in the LOTR. So would the current movies actually be 4, 5, and 6 in the series?
Just don't tell me it turns out Sauron is Frodo's father.
I said, DON'T TELL ME!!
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2, Informative)
(no relation to PETA which is animal rights group).
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
So you have your entire CD collection on your HD, why not have it all on one DVD? As long as the thing is rewritable what's the difference? Realistically, unless HDs improve at a drastic rate (which they probably will) I really don't see much of a reason to keep them. I'd much rather have a computer the runs off of removable drives (remember back when you had the OS on a 5.25 inch disk?) rather than a hard drive anyway. Want to dual boot? Just image another DVD with a different operating system. Want to store your entire CD collection in a lossless format? Just put it on a disk and keep on adding as you get more music.
Not to mention it would make migrating to a new PC so much easier.
Really, I've got 200 GB of HD space in my house (mostly full), but I'd trade it all for some GOOD, RELIABLE rewritable disks like I just described.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:but... but... but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Until that arrives I'll stick to the combination of HD and removable media, but I'm waiting...
Incidentally, if/when this happens it'll also require a dramatic shift if OS design. To have the installed OS act generic you would probably have to have the hardware abstraction layer stored in the hardware, instead of in the OS system data. That way I could just pop my disks into any computer I wanted and use it just like it was mine.
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
Where are you going to back up all this data? That's what these big ass DVDs are for.
Thing is, I don't want to have hundreds of stupid little plastic discs in their stupid little plastic boxes lining shelves in my place.
Again, if you have 1.5 TB DVD's you aren't going to have hundreds of little plastic discs laying everywhere. That's what you have now.
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
No, that's what tapes are for. Writable optical random-access media happen to do well for short-term backups (they don't have the shelf-life for long-term) but it's not really what they're *for*.
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
1) Big tape drives are slow and very expensive. Most home users don't do tape backups.
2) Tapes are absolutely not good long-term storage. They use magnetic recording and the signals will fade. Granted, in it's current incarnation CD-RW won't hold up in the long term either, but at least the technology has some potential. Magnetic media will never be an acceptable long term solution.
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
Don't worry too much about it. Hard Drive capacity seems to be doubling approximately every 12 months, while the price seems to be holding constant.
If that holds true, then when the new 1.5TB MegaDVDs are released, you should be able to pick up a 10TB hard drive for around $100 retail. (Calculation: 2^7=128, 128*80GB=10TB. $80GB HD today costs about $100).
A bit below the 50,000TB you want, but you will only need to wait another 12 years for that. Perhaps sooner, since all these doubling trends seem to be accelerating.
Of course, some of us don't want TB class DVDs or HDs... we want terabytes of solid-state memory. Holographic storage crystals would fit the bill nicely.
I.V.
Re:but... but... but... (Score:2)
HDTV compatible DVD players? (Score:2)
Yes, but will it be recordable? (Score:3, Insightful)
Even current DVDs are only recordable in one layer. You can't record directly to multiple layers, you have to master two layers separately and then wafer them together in the manufacturing process.
While a > 1TB disc is a cool idea, if it's only usable on commercially duplicated, mass-distributed data, it's of very, very limited use.
Re:Yes, but will it be recordable? (Score:2)
oh, thanks a lot (Score:5, Funny)
This reminds me of a quote from an old Sports Night episode. They were talking about Mt. Everest, I think.
Guy #1: "Twenty-nine thousand feet. Can you imagine how high that is?"
Guy #2: "It's 29,000 feet."
Guy #1: "Yeah, but you've got to put it in perspective. Compare it to something you can visualize."
Guy #2: (beat) "It's 29,000 rulers."
Thanks for the clarification, guys.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Bah! (Score:3, Funny)
Can't fool me. If they were serious they'd have said 1.44 TB.
In 10 Years..... (Score:2, Funny)
Backward compatibility (Score:2)
I don't think backward compatibility to current DVD technology is going to count for a lot in 2010 because nobody will be using current DVD technology (for data) by then. Backwards compatibility with Blu-ray, or its successor, or whatever comes along and supplants both five years from now, is what will really matter. Compatibility with a by-then obsolete standard will actually turn out to be a handicap in 2010, and they probably know that, but here in 2002 maybe it helps them get funding.
Help (Score:2)
"...that is supposed to deliver a 1.5 TB (that's a terabyte and a half)..."
Is this for all the people who think that 1.5 means "one and a third"?
Think of the scratch damage! (Score:4, Insightful)
Essentially less fault tolerant, and less ability to make backup copies.
Who wants that?
perhaps less impressive than it sounds (Score:2)
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
I don't know what it is with youngins today not knowing the history of hard drives. Needless to say, 200 meg hard drives were common with 486's were the dominant process. This was around 1992-1993. When I got a 486 DX/2 66 Dell in 1994, it came with a 360 meg hard drive.
gigabyte were common by the time Pentium 166's came out in 1996. That same year I got a 1.6 GB western digital that still works to this day. Hell, even my Compaq laptop from that era, 486 DX/2 50, 16 megs of ram, 640x480 256 color screen, and a 340 meg hard drive! This laptop was super high end, nearly $5000 in 1994.
Technology moves fast, but not that fast. besides, you are making me feel old and I am only 25
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
7 years ago a friend of mine had an 11 Gig hard drive (I remember his exact quote "I can copy *ENTIRE CD's* to my drive"). Now 11 Gigs was impressive as all hell, but it's a far cry from the 200 meg drive the parent poster was claiming.
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
7 years ago? As in 1995-1996? Your friend must have had a pretty decent source of income to purchase such an astronomically large [forensics-intl.com] drive.
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
Considering that I was still running Windows 3.11 (I was morally opposed to Windows '95) still, it was more than enough.
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
no, I agree. I think 1000 gigabyte hard disks will be around in five years guaranteed.
Re:not that amazing (Score:2)
Based on the proportionality the computer industry seems to maintain, hard drive capacity will, in all likelyhood, outstripe removeable media capacity by atleast ten-fold.
Right now I can burn 4.7 (or, I believe, 9.4) GB onto a single disc. I can also purchase a single hard disk drive that will hold 200GB. That's more than twenty times the storage capacity.
Following that (grossly over-simplified) logic, by the time I can store 1.5TB on a single disc, my hard drive will hold a modest 30-60TB.
While the notion of RAID'ing a group of 5 30TB hard disk drives sounds way more than phoenominal today, it'll most likely be fairly common-place in a decade.
I'm not sure if the content and magnitude of growth of knowledge/information we have will grow at the rate of technology, so it's difficult to say whether we'd need "Data Centres" in the not-so-distant future, or if the network server will be a standard ATX (or equivalent at the time) case sitting under somebody's desk.
Then again, if full-motion 3D imaging comes to pass as a commonplace technology (hard to envision, what with regular video conferencing being so niche (ie; not mainstream), we could see requirements for fields upon fields of 100PB storage arrays.
Re:well thats all well and good but... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Porn Vs Internet (Score:2)
Re:Bad for RIAA (Score:2)
Re:Bad for RIAA (Score:3, Interesting)
Especially since your oggs already support FLAC
"libOggFLAC and libOggFLAC++, which wrap the encoders and decoders of libFLAC and libFLAC++, respectively, to allow access to FLAC streams in an Ogg container"
At just slightly over 2:1 compression it's enough to turn that uncompressed best-quality 2304 kbps (48khz stereo 24-bit)
just for fun, that's ~5916 hours of FLACed CD audio per 1.5 TB DVD. Just under 247 days worth of audio. Mathematically lossless Audio+video compression possibly in HD format could finally be realistically possible. At 63.1 Mbps (Hufyuv+FLACed 720x480 30 fps) you can fit ~50-55 hours of DVD resolution, lossless quality audio+video on the 1.5 TB dvd (depending on audio quality). 1920x1080 HDTV is 380Mbps so expect 8-9 hours of lossless full-resolution HDTV.
Soundthing sounds wrong? Resolution? (Score:2)
Also, why would it be better in film when a lot of these movies are starting to be being RECORDED in digital? I'm guessing even the movie studios aren't using hundred-thousands of Terabytes of digital video. Going from a digital medium to an uncompressed digital medium... loss should be low if not null.
My calculations may be off... but something still sounds fishy about this
Re:Soundthing sounds wrong? Resolution? (Score:2)
So, you could still get several (almost 15) hours of DVD (at 104.3gb/hour) on the actual presentation DVD. Less at a higher res - or for a large screen - but you should still be able to get more than 90.
I'm still wondering at what rate those cameras record though... at high res it would still have to get in the >=100MBps area. And for such resolution to be displayed at 100+MBps would be beyond the capabilities of modern players max speed. You'd have a virtual helicopter in your DVD-ROM otherwise... lots of power use too.
Re:90 minutes of uncompressed HD video (Score:2)
1400 x 1200 x 30 / 8 = 6 MB
for a SINGLE FRAME OF HD. Multiply up by 25 or 30 FPS and that's about 0.93 TB for 90 minutes.
Not so hard, really, now is it? Of course, that is uncompressed...
Jon