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Web-based Road Monitoring 70

Posted by michael from the steer-into-the-spin dept.
James Evans writes "The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) and the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) are testing a Web-based system for weather forecasting and winter road treatment that could soon save lives, cut costs, and help keep millions of drivers on the move. Highway officials and road crews in Des Moines and Ames, Iowa, will test the Maintenance Decision Support System (MDSS) February 3 to April 4. The MDSS uses several computer models to project hour-by-hour weather and road conditions up to two days in advance, with an update every three hours."
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Web-based Road Monitoring More

Web-based Road Monitoring

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  • Would this technology use RFIDs too?

    • nope (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
  • Most of the time when people go driving they dont check the what the weather will be in two days.

    • Re:Does anyone ever pay attention? (Score:5, Informative)

      by colinemckay ( 610522 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @03:32PM (#5163332)
      It isn't intended for the use of drivers, but rather those who maintain and clear the roads. In other words, those who do the salting, sanding, plowing etc.
      • Objective
        1+view predicted weather and road conditions
        2+monitor the potential for deteriorating road conditions
        3+predict the impact of upcoming weather on specific road segments
        4-assess treatment recommendations based on proven rules of practice
        5-devise a plan for anti-icing, deicing, plowing, or other road treatment

        1,2,3 -Means its not only for the plowers
        4,5 -For the plowers

        1,2,3 - Are already forcasted on Media

        But eventually it all for the drivers ;)
        • Hrmm. Numbers 4 and 5 in Northeast Pennsylvania are:
          "Wait until the snow stops and make a half hearted attempt at plowing. Salt and such are only to be used in areas where big name retailers are located. To make interstates easier to clear, shut them down with cars on them, snow will melt off of the running cars instead of landing on the roadway, meaning less work for PennDOT."
  • If you crash in the real world, does your browser crash too?

  • Money well spent (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BlueRibbon ( 603297 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @03:26PM (#5163306)
    For once, the US goverment spends some money in something useful to the society in general.
    These are great measures against the deaths and injuries that every year happen in every road. That's something that the EU countries should copy from the US :)
    • Here in the "EU countries" we use winter tires from december through to march. They don't cost a zillion bucks and are more reliable than a weather forecast.

      Also, I wonder how many people get killed every year while trying to read a small font weather forecast from their GPS LCD.

    • Re:Money well spent (Score:3, Insightful)

      by topham ( 32406 )
      Of course people could just learn how to drive.

      (driving 10ft off the bumper of the car in front is dangerous, driving 10ft off the dumper of the car in front in snow is suicidal.).

    • ... That's something that the EU countries should copy from the US :)
      Yah, I saw the smiley. But the main difference between EU countries that take bad winter weather in their stride and those where transport goes chaotic at the first sign of snow (hello there, England) is that (a) they get it more often, and (b) they reckon it's cost-effective to spend money in advance to minimise the disruption when it happens. (Mind you, where I live in lowland Switzerland the first snowfall of the winter is always "interesting" - there are always a few fools who've delayed switching to winter tyres in the hope that they won't be needed this year.)
  • But it strikes me that cutting costs in this manner could hurt more than help. A lot of people watch TV news (I don't, but then, I have ./) for the weather report. There is a reason they leave the weather until the end (always pissed me off), and competition for the State would be harsh. Anyway, I'm not advocating TV broadcasting corps, 'cause they are money-grubbing sobs, but the economy they provide is not insignificant. Advertizements would cost more, since they'd have fewer viewers, and ads theoretically help drive the little guys in the economy.

    I support their efforts, for a safer and more informed existance, but I hope they look at the ramifications before potentially displacing a market.

    • Re:I generally like free things (Score:4, Interesting)

      by scott1853 ( 194884 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @04:42PM (#5163632)
      Why is it that everybody assumes that just because you put something on the Internet that everybody is going to abandon tradition means and jump to the site in droves? This is the same mentality that cause the whole dot-com boom/bust.
      • It's foolish to not consider the long-term effects. I did not say that the industry would be totally displaced or die, I said we have to be careful. It's a great idea, so I think it would be popular and become widespread (think scalability). Granted, weather.com and all of the similar sites are already popular, so the impact might not be big. These things have to be considered, and I wouldn't put it past the govt to blunder.

      • Why is it that everybody assumes that just because you put something on the Internet that everybody is going to abandon tradition means and jump to the site in droves?

        You're new here, aren't you? :-)

        Putting anything on the Internet pretty much guarantees that people will jump to your site in droves, provided you get your site linked somewhere here on SlashDot.

        If you don't get enough people flocking to your site, we have a courtesy service that'll repost the link again later the same week (sometimes even the same day).

        This is the same mentality that cause the whole dot-com boom/bust.

        No, this is the same mentality that causes sites to get slashdotted. Your confusion is understandable, since first their site's hit counter goes boom, then their web server goes bust, but those are simply intended to be humorous sound effects, not actual economic theory.

    • Er, right. So the safety of citizens should be held ransom to the profits of broadcasters.
      • You obviously weren't paying attention in Econ 101. The broadcasters getting income means more money is circulating, specifically through that industry, which is pretty damn large. Losses high up ripple down through the industry. Note also, that I'm supposing that this gotv. funded weather web service scales and becomes national/major.

        A engaging, constructive comment might be, say, "The dip in the tv industry's economy could be absorbed (kept from affecting the little guys) by providing the same type of services on this website, like advertizement." Unfortunately, though, that only affects the tv industry more, although I personally think that's fine. Most TV content these days sucks, and using silly underhanded tactics like putting the weather report after all the stuff people don't want to see only underscores the point that they have little to offer.

  • I'm not sure if it would be trustworthy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sirshannon ( 616247 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @03:33PM (#5163337) Homepage Journal
    I used to live on a mountain and came down several times a week. It would often start snowing while I was off the mountain and I would call the Highway Patrol to ask about the roads. There were 2 highways I could take and, invariably, the Highway Patrol would tell me that both were unsafe and that I should not drive on either.

    Luckily, I only took their word for it the first time. I drove a Geo Metro (the only way I could afford the gas with the mileage I was putting on at the time) and never had any problem whatsoever with either highway.

    I hope this system doesn't default to "roads are unsafe" or else people will stop bothering to check.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @03:35PM (#5163345)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Iowa? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Lord_Slepnir ( 585350 )
      See that digital computer you're working on? That was developed by Ames Labratory [ameslab.gov] and Iowa State University.

      Being from the east coast, I'm sick of people with the attitude that the only thing that comes out of iowa is corn. Iowa has one of the highest SAT averages in the nation, and some of the best universities, such as Iowa State and University of Iowa. Beleive it or not, there is a world outside of California, New York, and Philadelphia.

      • Re:Iowa? (Score:2, Informative)

        by Winjer2k ( 515635 )
        Actually, it was developed by Atanasoff as a professor in the Physics and Mathematics departments. Ames Lab was more concerned with developing metals and refining plutonium for the Manhattan Project (which happened to cause a nice explosion which blew out a wall in one of the buildings on campus while they were playing with magnesium).

        Iowa is a good place to raise a family, but that's about it. Only 1 in 4 Iowa State students will stay in Iowa after they graduate. The majority of people that live in Iowa are either farmers, old, or have been there all their lives and never went beyond high school. It's pretty sad when I get off the plane from DC and look around at the people at the airport - all old people.

        BTW, I also happen to live right near the DOT in Ames. I was surprised to see a story featuring Ames/Des Moines of all places.
    • It makes sense to test this system on roads that will rarely be used. That way, if the system turns out to be flawed, you're only disrupting the lives of potato farmers.
  • Just last week the weather forcast said dangerous windchills would descend on the area. They neglected to mention that snow was coming with it too, which means a BIZZARD! You can drive through cold wind, but you can't drive through 0 visibility.
    What is worse, local weather is forcast from more than 800km away. The forecaster can't even look out the window to see if their satellite is lagging or not.
  • the people that live in the southern US from frekaingo ut when they get some snow and then forget how to drive and have a 90 car pile up?

    upstate NY 4' of snow in 02-03 and counting!

  • What if "On-Star"... (Score:3, Funny)

    by SoSueMe ( 263478 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @03:48PM (#5163392)
    ... or some other such communication system were used. It could be set up on Highway Patrol cars (already on the road) and send up to the minute data combined with GPS for location.
    So, if you had (n)cars on the road in a given area, you could tell the weather at all the doughnut shops in the state.

  • This isnt the best thing since sliced bread. (Score:3, Informative)

    by TekReggard ( 552826 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @03:51PM (#5163401)
    The system will allow its users to:

    View predicted weather and road conditions monitor the potential for deteriorating road conditions.
    Predict the impact of upcoming weather on specific road segments.
    Assess treatment recommendations based on proven rules of practice.
    Devise a plan for anti-icing, deicing, plowing, or other road treatment.
    If you ask me, it still looks like they have to physically go out there and do something if it snows. It appears it will only be of major use if the roads are too dangerous to drive on and they can close the roads, or if travelers actually check predicted road conditions before they go traveling.

    Regardless, they still have to anti-ice, d-ice, plow, etc. So this wont do any good to the traveler who is already on the road approaching said segment of highway/freeway/road to no where.

    Altho I do think its a wonderful way to monitor many different roadways and see which ones need to be treated and which ones dont, which in the long run could save money and lives anyway.

    Take it as you will.

  • My Favorite Site (Score:3, Informative)

    by big_groo ( 237634 ) <groovis&gmail,com> on Sunday January 26, 2003 @04:07PM (#5163453) Homepage
    I regularly travel from Toronto to Northern Ontario, and it can be a real pain - you drive through 3 snow-belts on the way to SSM.

    Here's the site I check before I drive:

    Road Conditions [209.82.51.53]

    Also handy to call someone (when you have cellular service) and ask them to check the road ahead. I just wish they'd update the site more often.

  • I live in RI, but drive all around southern new england. We probably have the worst roads...ever...And by the list on the site, the states aren't included. How is this possible! The rain/snow line that is the Mass Turnpike is just ugly when weather strikes. It would be nice to have even a barebones forecast.

    While they are at it, maybe they can revamp the DMV as well.

  • Why Ames and Des Moines? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by aaronhurd ( 630047 ) <slashdot@nospAm.aaronhurd.com> on Sunday January 26, 2003 @04:12PM (#5163483) Homepage

    At first I though? What? Why are they testing this in Iowa? Then, I saw the light . . .

    As a Des Moines native and a student at Iowa State University in Ames, I can see why they picked these roads. The sections of highway that were picked for this test have very predictable traffic patterns. One can always count on the Des Moines "rush-15-minutes" and the commute from surrounding small towns to Des Moines. By using roads in a smaller city, with very predictable traffic patterns, the National Center for Atmospheric Research and the Federal Highway Administration have eliminated many of the variables associated with larger cities.

    Of course, this probably means that Iowa State University will be less likely to cancel classes due to poor road conditions . . . but I'm a Computer Engineer, so it's not like I have anything better to do than to go to class. :-)

    • Hopefully, they'll discover that they can pave the roads with old ibooks, otherwise, we're going to have a massive environmental problem once people realize that they just got suckered into paying 2X as much for what they could have gotten in a PC laptop and they start throwing out their old laptops. That would be great.

  • Kentucky's snow plow out for repair today (Score:3, Informative)

    by Fastball ( 91927 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @04:15PM (#5163496) Journal
    I just drove from Cincinnati to Lexington and I didn't see a single snow plow or salt truck. Not one. An entire lane of a three-lane interstate highway was snowed over. Useless. Several cars were off the road. One SUV was flipped. Three inches of snow was already on the ground with more falling. It wouldn't take a gadget to tell somebody at the DOT to uproot somebody's ass and get them out working on the roads today.
    • Three inches of snow was already on the ground with more falling.

      You're not from the north, eh? Where I'm from 3 inches of snow on the -road- is considered plowed. On the expressway that's pretty much unacceptable, but in really heavy snowing I've acdtually seen it happen. The "express"way drops to round 45mph and white-knuckle the wheel when going from lane to lane to get around people.

  • Uk system (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sounds similar to a service offered by the uk met office

    http://www.met-office.gov.uk/roads/about.html

  • congestion caused by too much information... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by urbazewski ( 554143 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @04:27PM (#5163546) Homepage Journal
    According to the article, this system is aimed at providing maintenance crews with more information about the best action to take to maintain road conditions, an excellent idea.

    However, a system which aims to provide better information about traffic congestion to individual drivers can have the unexpected consequence of making congestion worse --- one study by Mahmassani and Jayakrishnan showed that when individuals use a best response strategy the performance of the system as a whole degrades if more than 25% of drivers have access to real time traffic information.

    We show how this concentration effect works in a paper on the El Farol bar problem titled "Coordination Failure as a Source of Congestion in Information Networks" (download from here [annmariabell.com]) --- when agents have "too much" information they are unable to successfully coordinate their behavior.

    • However, a system which aims to provide better information about traffic congestion to individual drivers can have the unexpected consequence of making congestion worse --- one study by Mahmassani and Jayakrishnan showed that when individuals use a best response strategy the performance of the system as a whole degrades if more than 25% of drivers have access to real time traffic information.

      Interesting, but that sounds like a different situation. The traffic congestion is caused by drivers, so the "smart" drivers cause new congestion when they try to avoid old congestion. The drivers don't cause snow/ice, so I don't think the same problem will happen here.

  • I know that this system is designed for those who maintain the roads, but would it not benefit to have realtime conditions as well. Predictions for two days in advanced seems a bit overpredicting, as it is reality that counts ...

  • MDSS==RWIS? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cerlyn ( 202990 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @04:57PM (#5163687)

    This article seems to call these systems Maintenance Decision Support Systems (MDSS). But the term I am used to seeing is Road Weather Information System (RWIS), which are used for the same reasons. I guess that RWIS's could be part of MDSS's; Pennsylvania (as well as other states) use theirs to help predict where to send snowplows, etc.

    RWIS's are also often found online. Pennsylvania's RWIS is online here [208.9.196.31]. You can click on any region, click on a station, and get live video, if the road is wet ("chemcial wet"==salted), what the temperature/wind speed is, etc. Pennsylvania also has self-salting bridges in a few spots; I don't know of any in other states, but it just might be me.

    Ohio (not listed as an MDSS member) also has their own RWIS system [odotonline.org] (also called RWIS), although it presently covers only a few select areas.

    I should note that even if you check a RWIS/MDSS, be aware that weather conditions can change quickly. The National Weather Service and the MDSS/RWIN you use might show only light snow, but don't be surprised if you have to seek shelter in a hotel overnight.

  • ..the next Microsoft Vulnerability is used to DOS everything? I am not saying this is a bad idea but after the last few days of problems I can see this system falling flat on it's back which is worrying when the introduction mentioned 'save lives'.

    just a thought

    Mark.

  • In Finland... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Turmio ( 29215 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @05:16PM (#5163776) Homepage
    ...we've had this kind of service offered by Finnish Road Administartion [tiehallinto.fi] for years, I believe it was opened in 98-99 or so. It's in English too, you can check it out here [tiehallinto.fi]. It has been a great help many times. Especially those dozens of almost-real-time weather cameras [tiehallinto.fi] by roads all over the country are very nifty. This one [tiehallinto.fi], for example, is quite near where I was born. Pretty sad picture at the moment :(

  • More useful (Score:5, Funny)

    by Gary Franczyk ( 7387 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @05:29PM (#5163837)
    It would be great if they could combine this system with a traffic monitoring system. I would rather know the traffic 20 minutes in advance. It would be great if my navigation system would tell me, "take these back roads, you dont want to see whats coming ahead..." or "you might as well stay home for an extra 1/2 hour..."

  • Online road monitoring. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Openadvocate ( 573093 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @05:31PM (#5163844)
    A few of the ones I use. Not in english.
    Traffic [trafikken.dk]
    The above link has a great replay function so you can see when there are heavy traffic and or just not moving at all. So it makes it easier to plan ahead if it is possible. road work [trafikken.dk]
    In the winter months Road temperature [194.255.21.108]
    These are always good to check in the office before leaving.
    And then there is the webcams from the roads which I guess has no useful purposes for the average websurfer.
  • It doesn't predict the weather, but it's cool to check out the current temp.

    My Weather station [fperkins.com]
  • Using the web to manage highway traffic and weather conditions?
    So now the creators of Code-red and other worms, (not to mention microsoft servers' developers) will start to claim not only big DDoS's and network messes, but also, ROADKILLS! Nice...

    I can see the ads for Norton Anti-Virus 22: lets you protect your data, your computer, your car and your life from evildoers! "Merci Johnson!"
  • Our local weather forecasters use "sophisticated computer models" to predict the weather, too, and it doesn't seem to do them much good. They only get it right about half the time. If road maintenance services were tied to their predictions, we'd be in a world of hurt. No matter how fancy your models may be, nothing beats the old-fashioned -- "hey look, it's snowing outside, better dispatch the plows." Or for a somewhat more predictive approach -- "hey look, the doppler says it's raining an hour upwind from here and the temp is below freezing! Better salt the roads."
  • I'm a former Iowa resident. No, I didn't live on a farm (my uncle does, though)

    Iowa doesn't spread salt on the roads in the winter. They spread sand instead, doing nothing about the snow and ice, instead helping out traction a bit. It's clearly a cost-cutting measure; one so grossly abused that every spring hundreds of Iowa kids write the governor complaining that it's unsafe to ride their bicycles until late summer.

    With this in mind let me kindly suggest that Iowa is not a good real-world laboratory for winter time road management experiments. Thank you spin-your-tires through.

  • as coined by senator AL Gore in 1988.
  • San Antonio has had a weather and road conditions site for
    several years now http://www.transguide.dot.state.tx.us/index.php [state.tx.us]
    that even has cameras Big Brother is out there.

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