Gloss Plastic Could Eliminate Auto Painting 320
customs writes "There is a new plastic out from GE that covers plastic surfaces with a really good sheen. It's more resistant to scratches and random chemicals compared to conventional paint. It's actually a .5 mm polymer called Sollx; the Segway was the first semi-mass-produced product to use it, it has slender two tone fenders. Kinda cool. Auto painting is the industries largest manufacturing expense, and this could be what they're looking for...as soon as the price comes down."
WEE (Score:3, Funny)
Re:WEE (Score:5, Funny)
I don't think they make primer colored plastic.
Question for you all... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Question for you all... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Question for you all... (Score:2)
Or something like that.
Re:Question for you all... (Score:5, Informative)
Not entirely true. Crumple zones are designed to absorb the energy of an impact rather than transmit it to the passengers.
This design was taken from high performance race cars (like Indy and F1, not so much NASCAR) where the cars appear to disintegrate upon impact.
Dispersion of energy is one of the best protections a passenger can have. This is what an airbag does. The energy of the impact gets disapated into the air filled bag of large volume.
So, a rigid frame may help handling, but it does not help accidents from causing bodily damage.
Re:Question for you all... (Score:4, Informative)
You could ask Saturn [saturn.com]. They have building cars that way for ~10 years.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. (Score:3, Funny)
That's why I hate being in Corvette accidents. I can handle the broken bones, blood loss and internal damage but the damn itching that the fiberglass gives you really sucks.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. (Score:2)
for unibody based vehicles, it adds strength (Score:4, Informative)
Metal door skins and fenders are part of this overall structure. Even the windshield is part of the equation.
Of course if you switched to plastic ( as Saturn has done or the old fieros for example ) then you design around that...
Saw on TV commercials for this very thing recently, but they were touting lexan based panels..
Re:for unibody based vehicles, it adds strength (Score:4, Informative)
For those who don't know, what a monocoque design basically does is convert one kind of force into another. Strictly speaking a monocoque design uses the outer skin of the car as a structural piece, but consider the case of a car door. Stress is transferred into and out of the door through the hinges and the latch. In the case of (for example) a C4 corvette, if you open the door and jack up the car from the center or the ends you can cause permanent frame damage! The car is intended to rest on the wheels when at rest, or to have the doors closed at all other times. Jacking the car must be done either at the wheels or at the four appropriate places on the frame. AT THE SAME TIME. Jacking up a vette to change a tire is best done (by a AAA guy so you have someone to sue) with the doors closed. Realistically you won't damage the car just jacking up one wheel enough to change a tire, Chevrolet isn't THAT clueless. But close.
Anyway, what I'm getting across is that there's no big structural member in the door. All the force gets transmitted through the skin of the door. The pushing force gets spread through the end of the door, and reaches a crease. (Any intentional crease in a door is called a "fold line" - if it's 90 degrees which it usually is at such places, it's called a flange.) A fold/crease/flange is work-hardened, so it can handle more stress than unhardened parts of the skin. The stress is transmitted through the work-hardened flange and into the skin of the door. This serves to translate it from whatever kind of force it is, which would normally want to deform the (reinforced) flat plane of the door, into a shearing force (pay attention, this is the important part of a monocoque) which means that the stress is distributed throughout the sheet metal starting at the point at which the stress is transferred INTO the flat plane.
That is the entire basis of monocoque design in a nutshell. Obviously there's a lot more to it in practice but that's the theory. If you look at the suspension links on a japanese car you see most of them are just metal folded around a shape to provide this effect. You can see it in its simplest form in a piece of box or u-channel from the hardware store. Even a piece of pipe which you are trying to bend from the ends is resisting as a monocoque would. If you put your knee in the middle, you expose the weakness of a monocoque design, which is that stress put into the system from points other than intended load points tends to destroy the design. Monocoque designs only handle stresses for which they are designed.
You can try this experiment (Score:3, Informative)
You'll now find that you can simply peel the paint film from the paper backing. You will also now find that paint has no structural integrity whatsoever.
The primary function of painting metal is to prevent oxidation. Rust. It's secondary function is the purely cosmetic one of letting you change the color of the object. Note that the DeLoren, made of stainless steel, was not even available stock with paint on it.
KFG
Re:You can try this experiment (Score:2, Funny)
I did that with the goatse.cx guy [goatse.cx]. After I was done I had a really nice Klein Bottle [kleinbottle.com].
Re:Question for you all... (Score:5, Informative)
You might be interested to know that the windshield ends up absorbing/transferring to the roof up to 40% of the forces in a collision. This is the real reason it is illegal to drive around with a cracked windshield, not visual issues. If it were a visual issue, it would be illegal to drive around with a dirty windshield.
You can build your sacrificial crumple zones inside the body (in the front, the part of the body which the fenders are bolted to are called underfenders) but then you're just going to add weight. The fact that the skin of the car is load-bearing and part of the crumple zone just means that you don't need to add as much crap specifically and ONLY for the purpose of crash absorption under the body.
This is equally true of steel "skins" (Score:4, Informative)
It's not only perfectly possible to make a stressed skin plastic car, but the chassis of every Indy car and Grand Prix car is made entirely of stressed plastics. Because they are stronger, lighter and offer greater protection in a crash then steel,
The primary reason for using steel in the construction of production automobiles is manufacturing cost. Steel can be run down an assembely line in sheet form and *stamped* into complex structural shapes in fractions of a second.
Other materials have traditionally required skilled labor to form and more expesive machinery that takes longer to form a part than stamped steel.
Plus, your steel car rusts out in 10 years and they get to sell you a new one. Never underestimate the power of planned obsolesence. GM invented the overt philosophy.
KFG
Re:This is equally true of steel "skins" (Score:3, Interesting)
It only rusts if you don't take care of it, or if it's of shoddy manufacture to begin with. An '84 323 my dad used to have while we were in England started developing small rust spots after less than two years, even though it was treated just the same as every other vehicle he's owned...washed regularly, washed more frequently when it's snowing, etc. (It was purchased new, so it wasn't a matter of buying someone else's problems.) OTOH, I have a '77 Cutlass Supreme with no rust anywhere...the paint's still in decent shape, too.
Re:This is equally true of steel "skins" (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand plastic cars are bad for the consumer and good for the manufacturer. It can simplify the building process greatly while being able to add shapes to the car that would be impossible to make in metal. Features like that will make the car look better and possibly sell better as well. The bad thing for the consumer is that the life of the car will not rival a car made out of galvanized steel. They may claim that the plastic coating will last forever. Eventually the coating will fade, chip, scratch, etc. And the car will look horrible sometime down the road. In a steel car you can just get the whole thing repainted without a problem. When there is an accident with the plastic car the consumer will have no choice but to replace it from dealer parts.
Some cars that are well over 50 years old are still being used today for recreation. These cars go under intense restorations and customizations over the years.
Plastic cars will not be able to be restored in this way. You can also forget about chopping the roof or anything like that because plastic cars cannot be modified without actually replacing parts.
These plastic cars will do nothing but fuel the throw away culture that in recent years has gained velocity. Nothing today can be really be repaired. Once it goes bad it gets thrown away. This keeps a purpetual need to constantly buy new things of the same item over and over and over. This even applies to computers now. The intel has changed the core multiple times in the p4's and each time not making them backward compatible. Sometimes only a few months goes by when something like that happens.
The whole trend of this started way back when GE and Phillips decided that rather make a lightbulb last forever lets put a limited lifespan on them so we will get repeat sales. Before that nearly every product made could be repaired at a local shop.
IMHO there is nothing that can be done to reverse the process of making every product we own be chinsey. Since we buy stuff with essentially nothing since cash money really has no value anyway. Somewhere down the road when the entire population has turned into brainless automotons because all our decisions are being made by machines there will be nothing left of this great country's rights and ideas that we take for granted today. The govt will eventually win total control over us. This is a basically a law of governments that when their limits are exceeded they will create new limits somehow someway through an endless string of loopholes that will come full circle and suffocate us all.
Try to make a car out of carbon fibers. (Score:4, Insightful)
You can't do it. So called "carbon fiber" is a *composite* of carbon fibers and plastic. The plastic gives the form and the fibers add rigidity, taking advantage of the best attributes of both.
Such plastic plus fiber composites have been with us for ages. The WW1 Albatross fighter plane fuselage was made from composite materials, as was the PT boat, although must people don't recognize it as such.
That's right. *Plywood*, chip board and fiberboard are manufactured, actually high tech, plastic composite material using wood fibers instead of glass or graphite.
Your views on plastic as a throw away item is biased by the fact that plastics are the materials used to make disposable items. This has nothing to do with the plastic itself. What is one of the primary problems with this? Plastics don't degrade and build up in the land dumps. Metal does. Please note from the article that this plastic they have developed in *not* subject to degradation from uv light.
In any case, you can do exactly the same thing with a production plastic car to protect it from uv radiation as they do for GP cars.
Paint 'em.
There. Problem solved.
Trust me, I can make you a plastic car that will last for eons. Just like that Dixie cup you threw away last week.
KFG
Old News (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Old News (Score:4, Funny)
On the subject of commercials, how will this effect that sales of "The Ding King"?
Will this be the end of Billy Mays?
Modding (Score:2, Funny)
Would look cool with a window and neon lights.
Thanks, But I'll keep my paint job (Score:4, Insightful)
Explained in the article (Score:5, Interesting)
It never fades. Sunlight's ultraviolet rays trigger a chemical reaction in the Sollx film, forming a protective outer coating that won't decay.
I'd be more concerned about scratches -- how do I touchup a film?
Re:Explained in the article (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Explained in the article (Score:3, Funny)
Ahhh, touché!
Re:Explained in the article (Score:2)
Last year, my Saturn and I were rear-ended during stopped traffic on the local highway. Basically, you have a polymer (fibreglass of some sort) panel underneath, with an enamel glaze on the exterior. The person doing the repairs explained to me at the time that the glaze is "baked" on, so it hardens & becomes shiny. When the panel is damaged, the glaze discolors along the scratch lines (and you end up with white streaks that cannot be removed), or in my case, the glaze peels back like a ripped plastic bag, down to the panel (which was a dark grey in my case). Once torn, the glaze cannot be relayered like paint can, so you have to have the part replaced, and they send the old part back to be re-processd, most likely junked.
"Saturn pioneered the use of thermoplastic systems in body panels with the introduction of the industry's first quality, high production thermoplastic door panel ten years ago." More info here [plastics-car.com].
Re:Explained in the article (Score:3, Funny)
Whatever you do, don't take advice from George Lucas on that. He has funny ideas about touching up film. Next thing you, you'll have a co-pilot intended as the plucky comic relief.
On the flip side, though, the lack of passenger side airbag on your car will heal your soul.
Re:Explained in the article (Score:2, Interesting)
And most paints are polymer based... (Score:2)
Re:Thanks, But I'll keep my paint job (Score:2)
Re:Brush Painted Car? (Score:3, Informative)
Let's get our semantics right. All plastics are polymers. Not all polymers are what we would call "plastics" (e.g. DNA), but from an engineering perspective, virtually all polymers are interrelated.
Your example shows you don't know what your are talking about. Acrylic is a plastic. You can buy chunks of it from McMaster-Carr [mcmaster.com]. It is dissolved in a solvent and sprayed on for paint, but what do you think happens when the solvent dissolves? The acrylic re-deposits to form a film, but it is still fundamentally the same material that is used to make those clear tumblers [crateandbarrel.com] you can buy at Crate & Barrel.
Can you heat it up and cause the film to flow? Yes, but that just makes it a thermoplastic (as opposed to a thermoset). You could do the same thing with a polyethylene film. The difference with polyethylene is that the flow temperature is about 120C (250F), whereas Acrylic will flow at temperatures closer to 60C (150F).
All paint contains a lot of highly engineered polymers with adhesive properties. Thus, paint amounts to brush on (or spray on) plastic coatings.
how do you wax a piece of plastic? (Score:5, Informative)
And for the same reasons. It adds a sacrificial layer that erodes instead of the base material. Prevents oxidation.Provides a smoother surface (racing cars are waxed for this reason, the aero drag of a waxed car is measurably lower than an unwaxed one), and as result, entirely coincidentally, gives a glossy sheen that some people find attractive.
People already wax plastic all the time. Hell, I wax my Lexan R/C car bodies. Makes 'em look great.
KFG
computer cases! (Score:3, Funny)
CDs? (Score:3, Interesting)
awsome!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
Materials science (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Materials science (Score:5, Insightful)
No kidding.. my kids will probably never know what trying to clean a non-teflon coated pot is like.
I don't know what Lexan is, but I work for Valeo (Fitness Gloves/Belts, and Industrial Safety), and we use Kevlar threads in some of our Material Handling gloves to give them longer life.. Things just don't fall apart as much as they used to. I just hope my kids don't grow up thinking this stuff was invented in a garage, and everyone needs free access immediately. Some companies spend millions on this research, and they deserve to make their money back - and then some. Only after a reasonable amount of time should it become public domain.
Re:Materials science (Score:4, Informative)
Lexan is a bullet resistant plastic, similar to bullet proof glass but lighter, easier to mold, and more resistant to penetration. A few years ago, I made a skateboard out of the stuff just to have a clear skateboard. Now, it weighed in excess of 25 lbs. and was completely impractical but it looked good, and couldn't be shattered. I agree with you, the people who come up with these materials deserve to be compenstated fairly for their effort and hard work.
Re:Materials science (Score:2)
Re:Materials science (Score:4, Interesting)
Lexan is commonly used in automotive racing applications; GT1 and Formula cars (as well as slower machines) sometimes use Lexan windshields (depending on the race circuit's rules) because:
Not if you're Amish (Score:3, Interesting)
With respect to the improvement of paint, it is a wonderful idea that if successful would avoid a lot of waste in paint's first mission, preserving the vulnerable material underneath. But why don't we find ways to get rid of the sheet metal altogether? Saturn is the only one to have taken it really seriously, and I imagine part of that was the advantage of starting as a new company (yes, as a spinoff of a very old one, but you know what I mean -- UAW didn't even hold their new plant to the standard rules, and that was revolutionary!). They haven't beat the problems, but at least they've tried.
Here's a analogy I heard from a professor: Back in the days of J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI used to hold up every year a graph of the steady increase in their interdiction of interstate stolen cars. Problem was, interstate theft was increasing even faster. Then Detroit went to ignition steering wheel locks, eliminating the simple way to steal a car by hot wiring. The rate of theft plummeted. Sometimes changing something fundamental is more efficient that layering on additional layer of protection. (I hope the analogy held, but you get the idea.)
Re:Not if you're Amish (Score:2)
The horse and buggy was a fix for walking.
Nice, but expensive (Score:2, Insightful)
I thought it said GROSS plastic, (Score:3, Funny)
Don't hold your breath.. (Score:5, Informative)
When plastic comes down in price, then it will be here. The thing that I don't like about this is it seems that it has to be in place during the molding process. This would mean that if you were to ever scratch it, or something along those lines, you'd have to replace the entire piece. Unless they developed a patch kit for it, which seems like the patch would be weaker than the rest of the area because it wasn't present in the mold...
Of course, a plastic fender with this on it would probably be cheap because they have already reduced the cost of plastic below that of steal. The thermochromatic aspect of it would be cool though, but I'd prefer it to be uniform. I wouldn't want the rest of the car to be black and my hood to be red... that would just look weird.
5 finger discount? (Score:2, Funny)
Can you really reduce anything below the cost of steal?
too expensive? (Score:3, Interesting)
There doesn't seem to be any shortage of those on the roads, and this picture [carbuyingtips.com] is an example of what happens when you bump into someone while driving your big fiberglass manhood-enhancer.
Re:Don't hold your breath.. (Score:2)
As long as the metal isn't creased you can repair the panel and it shouldn't cost that much. If in your experience it has, you've been ripped off. Befriend a body shop guy, it can save you much agony.
good (Score:2)
I hope that doesn't sound too greedy, does it?
I can dream, its not like my own stock options in my own company are going up...
How well will it stick in practice? (Score:5, Informative)
I got out of graduate school in 1999 and found myself in the market for a new car. I didn't shop around, I thought I knew what I wanted -- a new 2000 Saturn SC2, black. I found that dream car sitting on the lot, and bought it (well, a bank helped me).
So, here I am, 4 years later, the not-so-proud owner of a blackberry (purple in bright sunlight, black at night) Saturn, having learned so much about the downfalls of plastic. I'll never buy another Saturn. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have bought a Saturn in the first place. The sales pitch says this: when you get into an accident, plastic body panels are much easier to replace than metal ones. They don't say that every little ding and scrape you get (ever park next to an SUV that doesn't have enough repsect for drivers of smaller cars that they open their doors until they hit the next car over? Ever find a shopping cart resting against your car?) will leave you with a white mark. In a white car, that may not be bad, but when this car is all newly washed and shiney, it's got ugly white scratches on the sides and rear fender. For some reason, metal cars don't seem to have this problem as much.
Gloss plastic. In practice, does this mean that it'll stick as well as paint does to my plastic Saturn? Or will it have the staying power of paint on metal? I don't care about the press articles on it, I want to know what the field tests say in the hands of real people.
Oxidation is fun (Score:4, Insightful)
No metal cars just rust instead. Much better...
There's a drawback to any material. Plastic scrapes , steel rusts, aluminum corrodes, etc. Plastic is no exception. The "dent resistant" panels work but you can't hammer them either. They're durable, not indestructible. And it's easy enough to touch them up.
I drive a Saturn and it's a fine vehicle. (1993 SC2) Fun to drive (for its price), good fuel mileage, low insurance, very reliable and it isn't offensive to the eyes either. I don't have the problems with the paint the previous poster described either. When washed it looks pretty good for a car with 120,000 miles on it. I expect it to last me another 60-80,000 miles too. Not much more you can ask for really.
Noise? Collision protection? (Score:2)
As an experienced Saturn driver who has perhaps hit something or been hit; or even if not, does the plastic sacrifice much in a collision, say to penetration? I couldn't get a satisfactory answer.
Also, it seemed that the panels were a lot noisier compared to steel, once they finally started welding the later. The noise was particularly dramatic on full-bore acceleration. Steel's rust resistance also improved a great deal over the years -- many of us will remember when rusted-through car doors were commonplace, a problem largely due I'm told to bad drainage.
I complement Saturn for doing a lot of things new, even as a spinoff of a company far more sluggish. I don't think they're there yet, but then they're the Henry Ford of body panels.
Re:Noise? Collision protection? (Score:2)
Here's some collision photos [saturnfans.com], though they're higher impact then you're referring to, I think. For small impacts the panels pop right back, though you can scratch the paint.
Unfortunately, Saturn is integrating themselves more and more with GM. There's even talk of a non-polymer panel vehicle in a couple years.
Re:Noise? Collision protection? (Score:2)
My wife's '96 started purple and still is, other than some white scuff marks on the bumpers.
Re:Noise? Collision protection? (Score:2)
Re:Oxidation is fun (Score:2)
Metal-bodied cars do not just rust. Your typical surface scratch into a base layer of wax or paint should never just rust in a modern car (ie door dings) if properly cleaned and touched-up. Sure, many vintage cars do not benefit from today's modern galvonization techniques and tend to rot, but you should never have rust problems in a modern car unless its been in a serious accident. This is why almost all modern cars come with a 10-year 100,000 mile (or even unlimited mileage) rust warranty. The manufacturers know this -- they wouldn't bet the bank on it otherwise. I'm afraid that Saturns that have been crashed will also experience rust problems as the internal components are made of steel (the frame, floorpan, etc) and will rust if bent or damaged...just like on any other car.
In a minor fender-bender, provided that there is no frame damage, if you take your steel-bodied car to a competent body shop -- it will not rust. Furthermore, most manufacturers have moved to fiberglass and painted plastic for the lower body-panels...which also do not rust.
Yes, the Saturn approach is innovative, and I'm glad that it has treated you well...but like you said, every material has its drawbacks.
the difference between metal and plastic parts. (Score:2)
I've got a 30 year old VW van in my garage. It had been trashed up north and had extensive rusting. No problem, because where the rust was not the material was sound. I replaced the front axle and riveted in a bunch of sheet metal painted it up a little and it's as good looking as it ever was. In fact, I like the patches. Try doing that with a plastic car. Can you even paint over that surface? Doubt it.
Tell me about a car with a composite monocoque frame at half the cost of my steel vehicle and I might listen your speel on plastic pannels.
Re:How well will it stick in practice? (Score:2)
UGH! 1999 was a bad year for car paint, for all small cars.
That's anout the time that environmental regulations made traditional caustic paint impossible to use, and paint manufactureres coulden't make the good stuff inexpensive.
Hence, all sub $25,000 cars, with darker paint, around that time have cruddy paint.
Case in point - My '92 Olds has beautifull paint and it's 192,000 miles and 11 years old, I've seen (same model) '98 versions with washed-out chaulky colors.
It's also not a GM thing, my Dad '99 Toyota Camery (built in Japan, with a J in the VIN) is looking rather dark-purplish in direct sun. It's alost a peice of junk, but that's another story.
Re:How well will it stick in practice? (Score:2)
Also, I think you got a bum Saturn... I had a dark red 1994 and it looked nearly new when I finally got rid of it at 140K miles. It had lots of major scrapes and dings in it's life... never needed more than a little polishing to remove the worst. I think the base plastic was black on mine, though.
Segway? (Score:2)
Durability? (Score:2, Insightful)
Wonder how it holds up to sunlight, though. There are plenty of scalded-looking cars driving around here in Georgia, and many more further south and west. Somehow, my sense is that combination of plastic + UV would be an issue.
What about bodywork? Can it be done? Beyond their dent-resistance threshold, do the panels deform or fail? (Didn't Audi have to set up its own network of trusted body shops before the introduction of the latest aluminum-bodied A6, then offer free flatbed service to new owners, b/c typical body shops didn't have the right equipment and expertise?)
Thermocromic fun (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Thermocromic fun (Score:2, Interesting)
I can see it now... when someone cuts me off my car instantly goes from blue to red, might be useful.
Repair Bills (Score:3, Insightful)
The nice thing about paint is that you can patch a small area. This sounds like you'd have to replace the entire damaged part.
If so, it has the potential to slightly decrease the original price and really increase the maintenance and repair costs.
I'm not sure that constitutes an improvement.
Transparent Aluminum (Score:5, Funny)
Correct me if im wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Costs... (Score:2)
Sure - as soon as the cost comes down!
The biggest cost in solar power is the cost of collectors, so new material X could be what they're looking for...as soon as the price comes down.
The biggest cost in overclocking is the cost of decent coolers, so liquid nitrogen cooling could be what they're looking for...as soon as the price comes down.
The biggest cost in electric vehicles is the fancy batteries , so fuel cells could be what they're looking for...as soon as the price comes down.
Is it me?
The most exciting part of this article... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The most exciting part of this article... (Score:4, Funny)
(opologies to The Onion)
More info on Smart Cars (Score:5, Interesting)
The article mentions a car that is already available which has full plastic parts. More info can be found at the Smart website [smart.com]. I drive one of these, and I have bumped into obstacles while parking several times. Unlike a metal body, the plastic panel just springs back into shape after a bump. With a metal body, it would have been damaged visibly.
Other Smart drivers reported that after a crash, the car had no visible damge while the invisible parts beneath the body panels had been damaged severely, but the robust body panel had been hiding the damage.
I can really recommend these cars. They are the ultimate opposite to an SUV. 2.49 m long (7.5 feet!), 695 kg gross weight, can turn on a dime... wonderful.
Not necessarily a good idea (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you really want a bunch of damaged metal and loose welds hiding under a "seemingly" clean plastic coating?
Re:Can I get that car in a color besides ugly? (Score:2)
it's all a matter of finding the right car for the job: too many people drive machines designed for the wilds of michigan in cities where they're unnecessary, wasteful and a damned nuisance - these wee puppies on the other hand work great in the city, but like you I'd be wary of taking one anywhere that a rock to the bonnet (hood) would be an issue.
Well (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Well (Score:2)
Paint it? Or just snap the not-very-structural covers off and replace them?
Hypercolor Cars (Score:2)
Reminds me of the old hypercolor shirts in approximately the early 90s that changed color when you wore them. I could see this feature appealing to a younger generation.
how insightful? (Score:3, Funny)
Molting? (Score:2, Funny)
GE Plastics claims that the material is also theoretically capable of "thermochromic" effects that change the color with the temperature -- imagine your Lexus molting from red to black as you head from the desert to the mountains.
Uh, doesn't molting mean shedding skin or other outer coating? I can't think of one Lexus owner who wants to imagine their car molting. Giant strips of Lexus skin all over the road! Ewwwwwww!!!
Re:Molting? (Score:2, Funny)
Oh boy! (Score:3, Funny)
Neat! Now i can complement my bad tint job with an equally bubbled paint job.. Yay!
What about the environment? (Score:2, Insightful)
Possibly Still Economical (Score:3, Interesting)
But I'd also worry about the possibility of a lighter car being less safe.
Lighter equals Safer? (Score:3, Insightful)
There are also issues of a smaller car being more maneuverable. My wife once avoided a serious accident by being able to swerve her VW Rabbit very quickly to safely pass a camper shell that blew off from the vehicle in front of her on the freeway.
While larger and heavier vehicles absorb collision stress better than those of less mass, it's likely that a larger proportion of lighter vehicles on the road could reduce injuries by simply reducing the collision loads.
Re:Lighter equals Safer? (Score:3, Interesting)
Which is why I think SUV's are evil. SUV owners frequently mention "my kids/wife will be safer", ignoring the fact that their hurtling behemoth makes the rest of us less safe. The damn things have sparked an arms race in my neck of the woods - everybody wants their kids to be safer and thus, per your observation, they end up making the roads less safe for everyone.
Quite the pair of MDs.
Someone please explain this... (Score:2)
So sunlight actually causes a reaction in the paint itself? They claim it won't decay, but still... I'd be a little uneasy about anything that actually reacts chemically to sunlight (including the paint on most cars). I'd prefer something that's inherently resistant, without the need for a chemical reaction. So does this reaction break down after awhile, only to be reactivated again the next time it's exposed to sunlight?
Safety Implications? (Score:2)
Just curious...
Why don't they... (Score:2, Insightful)
If they could make it better than paint then why don't they? If they can make a better product, save cost and make it look better it would give them more of an edge. Especially against an industry that has been part of auto making since the beginning. The more advantages the better.
Nice technology (Score:2)
But it wouldn't really be replacing paint, as the automobile industry has been using powder [powdercoating.org]
for about a decade.Environmental dangers (Score:2)
Re:Environmental dangers (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe the question should be: How harmful is the current paint process to the envorinment? (The answer to that is very much so -- probably the most harmful of any part of the car-building process...including the actual driving part for about 50,000 miles). The logical followup is: Compared with the current paint process, how safe is the plastic technique? Is it as recyclable as steel?
Segway? Mass produced? (Score:2, Insightful)
Fieros and plastic (Score:2, Informative)
Plastic cars are a pipe dream (Score:5, Informative)
Second, metal is stronger than plastics, up until you get into carbon fiber or similar carbon or aramid composites, which aren't plastics. They're composites. Even FRP (Fiber-reinforced plastic) which is somewhat common for air dams and such, it's floppy. You could make it hard but then it would be brittle.
Something that people tend to forget about cars is that unibody cars are a monocoque or semi-monocoque design. Most unibody cars are actually half monocoque, with a unibody rear, and then frame rails and underfenders just sort of sitting out in front of the car beyond that. The entire back skin of a unibody car is load-bearing, which is why it's a monocoque design. Stresses from spirited driving are transferred into the roof. This is why convertibles are floppy and require additional reinforcement.
There are some full-monocoque cars, like the older Opel GT. They don't really HAVE a classic frame, they're just built up where the suspension equipment bolts on. Of course the new classic example (since no one seems to know what an Opel GT is any more) is the McLaren F1, which everyone has heard of. That, however, is a carbon fiber full-monocoque design.
So metal is stronger than plastic, necessary in the car's design, and it will in almost every case look different than plastic even after painting. Plastic and metal require different primers, and the texture of the primer on a different material changes the way the car looks when it is painted. It can also be a challenge to get a primer for plastic and a primer for metal which won't interact differently with the paint you lay on top of it.
If you want a prime (oh I kill me) example of this phenomenon, examine a Pontiac Fiero. The Saturns with plastic doors aren't old enough to really see a color change, but of course that is due to fading which this stuff is supposed to not do. The Fieros, however, are painted with different paints depending on whether you're painting plastic or metal. It becomes very noticable on them as they age.
The final and perhaps most compelling reason to use metal is that it has the best failure mode out of all available materials. Plastic tends to shatter when you put enough force into the same part of it all at once. Steel, on the other hand, first work hardens when you flex it, making it stronger in the bent place. If you bend it beyond its elastic limit, anyway. If you continue to stress it it will distress (Crack) and then tear. However, with sheet steel, it mostly causes other areas to deform instead of tearing.
With steel, there is no damage which cannot be repaired. Pieces too badly damaged to straighten can be replaced to or near original specifications by removing a relatively small piece and fabricating a new piece of steel to fill the hole. This is true of any steel part of the car, from the body to the unibody to the frame. Plastic, on the other hand, usually has to be cured into a shape. Plastic bumper covers can be repaired (with some difficulty) but they are not load-bearing. They're just dressing. The only load they ever have to bear is atmospheric.
I should not have to remind you that this tendency to work-harden when pushed past the elastic limit and excellent failure mode is the technology behind "crumple zones" in cars. We know about how the stress is going to be transferred into other parts of the steel. Even cars which DO have plastic parts on the outside have metal parts right under them to deal with crashes. The upgraded version of crumple zone technology is used in NASCAR racing, and it's carbon fiber honeycombs built to fail in a predictable way, just like the crumple zones in a normal car - except of course the cells are smaller and more predictable. The bumpers are also upwards of $2000, which makes them impractical for street use.
Steel is cheap and good and can be easily repaired out in the real world. Plastics may make it possible, but they also possibly make repairs a big pain in the ass. You have to consider the difficulty of repair as well as initial construction.
Drive Different (Score:2)
And, if so, can I do this [jobic.com] with it?
Lightning (Score:2)
OK, it doesn't happen every week, but still...
Just buy a Fiero (Score:2)
Ridiculous (Score:3)
I can see it now, soon there's going to be a slashdot article "NEW AXE BODY SPRAY WILL REVOLUTIONIZE SMELL SCIENCE!" and "NEW SPRAY AND SWEEP SWIFFER SWEEPER ADVANCES STATIC ATTRACTIVE DUST SCIENCE!
But what if I have to change color- in a hurry? (Score:3, Funny)
"Quick, take this car down to the, um, place and have it dipped in Sollx."
Re:News for nerds.. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:North American Consumerism? (Score:2)
"We could look better than paint. But right now, we have to look like paint."
Re:Love My Saturn's Polycarbonate Site Panels!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Don't do that! Due to natural selection, you're just breeding stronger shopping carts!