Tech Jobs Projected to Double by 2010 760
netbsd_fan writes "Today's Chicago Tribune has an article that claims that the number of coding jobs will double by 2010, and computer support jobs aren't far behind. It's hard to believe since I just laid off our last two Win32 guys Friday. Could this be a turning point in the labor market?"
That's a long time to be out of work (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That's a long time to be out of work (Score:2, Insightful)
far into the future, and besides, this is just
another new article, written by a journalists
who gets payed to write cure things. Even if
the the experts proposed similar claims, the
next question is who do they know? And besides,
they are talking about 2010, who among you will
be around to tell them if they got it wrong?
Re:That's a long time to be out of work (Score:5, Funny)
You are absolutely right! I was talking with CmdrTaco about the demographics of the
You're post brings a tear to my eye with the degree of it's relevancy to our community. The age of our readers here is rarely discussed and these demographics have not been shared with our regular readers, who seem to assume the typical
Re:That's a long time to be out of work (Score:5, Interesting)
infoweek article on IT unemployment (nice graph) [informationweek.com]
Price demand curves (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's a long time to be out of work (Score:5, Informative)
Lies, lies and damn statistics, I say.
Re:That's a long time to be out of work (Score:5, Funny)
the truth (Score:3, Interesting)
Face it, my six-figure-salary career is going to become the equivalent to that of your average librarian, cashier or even mechanic.
I think the mechanic analogy is probably the best. There is little difference between your average mechanic and your average computer/software/techie engineer type - other than one is physical and the other is not.
Does your average mechanic make six figures? Hell no. Is you
Lack of jobs - Really? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's interesting to note how many people from the United States on /. and other boards are complaining about the lack of jobs in the tech industry. It seems that although jobs elsewhere pay less, there are far more of them.
Here in South Africa, the tech industry hasn't been through a so-called slump, in fact, the job market is probably better now than it was in 1999. The difference I see, though, is that most people here are talking about programming jobs. Going by pure numbers, most tech jobs here are either in networking or hardware.
Even at our company, which isn't a tech company by any means, we have 4 full time techs working on the in-house system (post-sales, customer relations, operations, call tracking) written (mainly) in Java and Python, and doing general network/system admin.
Friends that I met at Unisa [unisa.ac.za] who graduated with Computer Science degrees haven't by and large had any problems finding jobs, although it seems that more experienced people are sought after in more advanced areas. But the so-called lower-end jobs (and yes, I know that there are more advanced sub-divisions of each of these, but I'm talking about entry-level to mid-level) - Networking, System Admin, Hardware, Support - are pretty easy to get into.
Oh I'm sure they'll double... (Score:3, Insightful)
Although, perhaps I can make a lot of money building the network backbone to India that will allow this to happen on a large scale.
Re:This study is a JOKE read on- (Score:5, Insightful)
oh my fucking _GOD_!!!!
html *ENGINEERS*!
is this the end?
By 2010???!?! (Score:4, Funny)
Good news? (Score:5, Funny)
Woo (Score:2, Insightful)
They may have a point. But computer users are becomming smarter and smarter.
Back in the day people charged out heaps just to plug a computer in or reinstall it. Nowdays everyones a computer technition and can do it themselves.
Surely they will just invent some AI version of software with a nice point anc click interface (more so than there is now) that creates all the software you need!
Re:Woo (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Woo (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Woo (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Woo (Score:2)
Only to a point, people are more comfertable with computers and a increasing number are becoming quite proficient (ie power users and programmers) just due to sheer numbers but the biggest difference is the software is a whole lot smarter.
Surely they will just invent some AI version of software with a nice point anc click interface (more so than there is now) that creates all the software you need!
And just what instructions wi
Re:Woo (Score:3, Interesting)
well, we've already got paranoid AIs [google.com]. and AI psychiatrists [nyu.edu].
Re:Woo (Score:4, Funny)
Will the real Susan Calvin please stand up?
Sure they'll double -- in India! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sure they'll double -- in India! (Score:5, Interesting)
All they have to do is have a presence in the US and another country and they can import labor at UNLIMITED levels to the US
This is NOT just the IT field , in fact a few
insurance companies in connecticut have laid
of US workers in favor of L1 visas from Eurasia.
This trend is going to continue , but here is the funny thing
Most of these companies customers are americans, not ppl in Eurasia
So they are going to enter a never ending downward spiral as they cut jobs in the US,
ppl are going to spend less because they do not have a job . Thus this will EVENTUALLY cut into their profits
The foreign labor meanwhile sends this money to a foreign market, after all that is where
they live
3 Step process - remove jobs from US, Send jobs overseas(import temp labor), outflow of funds overseas
So not only are you increasing unemployment,
but money that was once earned then spent here
is removed TOTALLY from the economy
No amount of Tax cuts is going to compare to
4 million lost jobs averaging $40,000 a year
for a round number
That is 160 billion a year no longer earned here, and sent elsewhere
It's one thing to lose your jobs to someone
that will spend the money here, and another
to lose it to someone that sends the vast
majority of it home to Eurasia
As this starts to impact the economy here
and ppl spend less it will cause further
layoffs, bankruptcy, and foreclosures
Watch the housing market over the next 5 years
The american companies are tagetting short
term profit, and long term euthanasia in Eurasia.
When the count hits 10 million laid off americans, that will require 10 million
new jobs, and will funnel 400 billion out of the country
True those CEO's living in the lap of luxury
will rake in huge profits in the short term,
but it is long term suicide
The TRULY terrible thing is your rep in
congress either Dem or Repub supported
this almost 100% in a vote AFTER the DOT COM
BUST " began ", doubling the H1-b Cap
America for sale...SOLD...
They will reap what they sow, a bitter harvest.
Peace...
Ex-MislTech
Dude, your tinfoil hat... (Score:5, Funny)
Ok, better. Looks fine now.
-B
Great... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Great... (Score:2)
Indians (Score:4, Funny)
Hmmmmm....
Re:Indians (Score:3, Funny)
Hold on... (Score:3, Insightful)
Double over hte next 7 years... (Score:5, Informative)
My company is moving locations and intends on laying off everyone who doesn't want to relocate...let me tell ha how excited I am!
I was a fool for thinking that an ISP job was a stable gig...
Re: Double in 3 years... (Score:5, Interesting)
The catch is, you need to move to a third word country to get one of those new programming jobs, or at least be willing to work at 3rd world rates.
That is the unintended consequence of connecting everyone everywhere. Now employers can hire anyone from anywhere.
Re: Totally intended (Score:3, Insightful)
No, this is a totally intended consequence of integrating the world's markets. Do you really thing stuff like NAFTA was dreamt up as anything but a way for companies to get cheap labor? It certainly hasn't provided any benefits to the citizens of North America w/r/t increasted availability of goods, more stable markets, better market competition, or what have you.
Cute thing is, if the US tr
Not Just Third World (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're overstating the case here. Outsourcing isn't just about the third world.
I'm an American living in Hungary. According to salary.com (at least) my line of work pays between 70-120K per year in the SF Bay Area. That's pretty consistent with what I've made there as a consultant, and what my friends there are making.
Now consider Budapest. Hardly third-world. About to join the EU. Highly-educated IT workforce, most speaking really good
More like cut in half over the next 7 years (Score:5, Insightful)
Computer systems these days are built with more redundant and more powerful components that are easier to maintain. Most companies have switched away from the Windows 9x line which saves a awful lot of time dealing with stupid desktop issues. We have also seen the change to web-based software which is getting cheaper and easier to implement and support every day. It is now possible for a small group (3 people or so) to manage a large pool of inexpensive web-servers (20-50) which supports a huge application used by thousands of people. This model is increasingly being used and it works well and saves bundles of money. This, combined with companies new-found zeal for cost cutting will drive the numbers of IT professionals down in the coming years.
My advice is if you aren't in IT, don't try to get into it unless you are really good with computers. If you are in IT but aren't very good at it, think about finding another career. The future in IT may not be very bright.
Re:Double over hte next 7 years... (Score:5, Interesting)
1st one - out of business... Mismanagement
2nd one - out of business... Horrid Mismanagement
3rd one - out of business... Illegal Management (bad things happen to those who default on contracts to buy)
So I figured I needed to go do something else.. A nice change, so to speak. Programming.
8 months (bought my first house on the 7th) and the economy being as bad as it is causes major loses and sold the company.
5 months and NO jobs. Construction (which I'm quite capable of) is not open due to the large influx of Mexican workers. Programming jobs are being taken by internal promotion. Admins are sticking where they exist. And the joke that is unemployment is more than flipping burgers, less than cost of living. So I now have to sell my home, move BACK in with my parents, and become the one thing I swore I'd never be. (No mystery here folks, Unemployed and living at home being older than 21.)
I'd go back to acedemia, but frankly I'd have no way of supporting myself even IF I could afford tuition an books. Could get a loan, but oddly enough, I know more degreed individuals out of work than non-degreed.
And now we're at war. Is there any way to incarcerate every stinking politician in the country for gross incompetance?
Re:Might want to try... (Score:3, Insightful)
hrmm (Score:2, Insightful)
Some math (Score:5, Funny)
Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Funny)
I already went thru all my top ramen. I just finished working my way thru the middle ramen, and now am into the bottom ramen. I've truely hit bottom.
It's not hard to believe... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's not hard to believe... (Score:2)
windows programmers (Score:4, Interesting)
My guess is that the demand for windows specific programmers will be essentially non-existant in the future. Cross-platform apps will undoubtedly rule everywhere, even the desktop.
Re:windows programmers (Score:2, Interesting)
This shouldn't be surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)
Further, as worker productivity increases in the longer term, while natural resources become scarce, it seems clear that an increasing proportion of our output will have to consist of services and 'intangible' (e.g., information) products.
Either that, or we'll all be unemployed and starving...
Re:This shouldn't be surprising... (Score:3, Insightful)
They didn't predict the current slump very well.
technology is just too important to today's economy
I think everyone agrees with that more or less, but what is not predictable are things like offshore outsources, H-1B visa congress bribery levels, etc.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This sucks for us. (Score:4, Informative)
Jobs are about to double, but not in the USA!. Tech support and programming jobs around the world will double by 2010, and even if it does double in the USA, the more it doubles the lower our salaries.
I'm sorry but soon programmer will be what teenage kids do, like mc donalds of today.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This sucks for us. (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft's screening and interview processes for programming positions are famously tough, and they attract many
Re:This sucks for us. (Score:5, Informative)
As the economy recovers and new technologies are adopted, companies will develop products to take advantage of them. Customers will enjoy cheaper and easier access to their bank accounts, more efficient processing of their credit applications, etc.
Though offshore programmers benefit greatly from this expansion, the U.S. economy as a whole also benefits from cost savings and general growth in production and consumption. Jobs will be created, inevitably.
Companies continue to hire locally in order to have a local tech person who can interface with the offshore team. Since more companies are profitable, more local techies will get hired.
Another point to consider is that as demand grows, very gradually we will see salaries rising in India. They have a lot of people but only so many of them can get into a university or otherwise learn the necessary skills to do software engineering. Unlike the U.S., there are not university seats for everyone who wants one. It will take a long time for costs to become prohibitive but it's likely that the difference between offshore and domestic labor costs will shrink somewhat, and the benefits of domestic labor will begin to outweigh the higher price.
Finally I would suggest that American programmers need to get creative and find better ways to earn a buck, such as to associate themselves with a high demand technology or product line, e.g. Oracle Applications,
Just some ideas. I myself am struggling to find my next consulting contract and I'm likely going to move away from coder-for-hire to more of a product development mode. It's a tough market right now but I think there will be some great opportunities in the next 3-5 years.
Things might be startomg to turn around now (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Things might be starting to turn around now (Score:5, Interesting)
I found in my job search that my longevity in the field was a problem. In general, years in the saddle directly translates into dollars. So its actually easier for younger less experienced yet well exposed candidates to land jobs because their lower cost.
So I would go in for a job that was a perfect fit for my experience, plus I could bring so much to the team. But never heard a thing. After talking with headhunters and other recruiters, it was clear that companies were looking at dollars first. In fact, I almost didn't get the job I have because they didn't feel that I would be happy with what they'd be willing to pay. This is true, but hey, its better than the nothing* I was making before!
In other news, the people I know in the VC arena say we're in year three of a six year slump in the IT industry.
Its great that you found a good job right out of school.
*Actually, panning $25/hr doing odd contracting work, when I could get it, and only then if I could get the client to pay up!
Re:Things might be startomg to turn around now (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, but are you making $30k - $40k a year, or are they paying you a real salary?
I've seen many tech ads looking for "highly qualified, senior level positions, 10+ years experience, blah blah blah" that only pay $36k a year. They are banking on someone who got laid off and is desperate to take the position. I don't know about you, but I don't work for peanuts. BTW I found a new job 9 weeks after getting laid off that paid substantially more than what I was making before! Good jobs are out there, you just have to look harder for them these days.
Re:Things might be startomg to turn around now (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Things might be startomg to turn around now (Score:3, Interesting)
Firmware/embedded systems programming are where it's at.
On t
Re:Things might be startomg to turn around now (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry, but $30-40k for a fresh graduate is pretty reasonable [themint.org]. The problem is that people experienced the late 90s job market as it was how things always were, but in fact it was an abberation. A recent graduate should be looking for experience right now, only start worrying about salary once you are established. The first 3 years of everyone's career will usually suck in pay terms. 5 years in, and you'll be glad you went for
Re:Things might be startomg to turn around now (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing is, many places *don't* value IT experience that much. Thus, if you are under the delusion that you will keep going up and up over time, think again (unless maybe you are unionized in a gov job or soemthing). IT worker market value tends to peak around 5 years of experience in my observation. Sure,
Beware False Prophets (Score:2)
second bubble (Score:5, Funny)
Re:second bubble (Score:3, Interesting)
All joking aside, you're probably not the only person who feels that way. I for one missed out on the whole "get rich in tech" thing, by not finishing school and landing a programming job until right near the end of the first bubble...
There
Economists Predictions (Score:4, Insightful)
Shouldn't they have predicted the initial tech fallout? Almost none did. In fact, when have they ever been right?
Maybe I'm just too cynical, but I'll believe this one whan I see it.
Re:Economists Predictions (Score:2)
My best friend is an economist actually, he plays everything safe and tries to read everything before coming to any sort of conclusion. Economists don't work independently, they throw a hypothesis within the group then do research to see the likelihood of the hypothesis happening. They have all sorts of models going on at the same time and select the one the fits best.
I'm not the only one? (Score:2)
I am hiring though. Unix knowledge a *MUST*.
Dot Conned round 2 (Score:2)
I will believe it when... (Score:3, Insightful)
This almost falls in the same category as economists telling the mass that the market will recover in 2 months, for the past year.
Given, I am a CS grad with no job, and my skills are sub-par compared to the average slashdot crowd. I do see a massive amount of CS/CE people. Their numbers get greater every year.
On top of that, the demand for CS jobs might increase, but what's to keep a global company (which most companies aim for) from hiring someone from India who will work for 1/10th of what you should be getting?
When technology is this advanced, location and distance does not matter. And considering the amount of people they have over there, willing to work for so little, tech jobs doubling really don't apply to us at all, do they?
In related news... (Score:4, Funny)
underlying shortage (Score:2, Interesting)
These jobs aren't going to suddenly appear. They're showing up as the bulge of baby boomers disappears.
2 * x < y (Score:2)
Could it be because of Indian workers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Could it be because of Indian workers? (Score:3, Insightful)
Whoever said it will end? It is a continuous program. It might drop down a bit at the end of the year, but greedbags are lobbying to extend it, inventing "labor shortages" with phoney statistics just like they always do.
Someone please mod the parent up! (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure it increases the number of people competing with us for jobs here, but the key word is 'here'. If they remain in third or second world countries they will still be competing with us, but at cut rates because of lower cost of living. Bring the
Predicting 7 years into the future? (Score:2, Insightful)
That's my opinion of course. Any experts around? Can anybody point at an article written 7 years ago that predicts the end of the bubble?
My $0.02
IT is doomed. (Score:5, Insightful)
The traditional approach of in-house techs for companies doesn't work in a large company becasue the numbers people want to mess with the formula. They see the potential for consolidation which reduces the number of peope needed to support your network. Then they see cheaper programmers available in India or China or any one of several countries with decent education and low pay. So they export those jobs.
Eventually, they see a few ex-techies managing the people who used to be hot stuff making too much money to repeat decisions made by the senior management, and replace those with accounting types.
Remember in most companies it is the overriding goal of Finance to reduce costs. The other parts of the business bring in the profits. One way to reduce costs is to standardize jobs so they can be filled by less talented people with lower earnings.
There will always be a tech industry, but I'm not so sure with outsourcing and globalization that there will be a large American tech industry. The trained monkey jobs may be the last few left.
And so you know who's talking, I'm a VP of IT who worked his way up from general geek over the last 18 years. I've seen the trends play out and I just don't feel good about the future of our industry.
Re:IT is doomed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Why am I picturing the stereotypical old guy running around with the "The End Is Near" sign
For once, someone makes up a rosy story about the future (remember that every projection about the future comes straight outta someone's ass) and its still all gloom and doom here. Global capitalism means that more people can get even richer. Anyone can make it, but most seem content with boo-hooing about how the system is keeping them down.
Re:IT is doomed. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:IT is doomed. (Score:5, Funny)
Yup, enjoy the bloated maintenance costs. (Score:3, Insightful)
In reviewing code written by less experience co-workers, I have seen obvious improvements for readability, maintenance, debuggability, and performance (performance is secondary - except where it is needed). Personally, I review my own code for these type of improvements and when I can, I improve it.
I will surmise that it may reduce costs over the next 3 mo
Re:IT is doomed. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to get into a company that's producing instead of feeding meta-services to businesses (second level of abstraction businesses like investment banking, advertising, consulting), but there are fewer and fewer out there.
I'd LOVE to work for a manufacturer I thought had a good future and was doing good work in the U.S.
industry trade group planted this story (Score:5, Insightful)
Now they're projecting a big turn-around in the labor market 7 years from now. Next they'll start wailing about a severe shortage of labor.
Straight from the ITAA (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Article is PR for staffing and education (Score:5, Informative)
Times are tough all over, and you can't begrudge these people for trying to create business for themselves, but in these tough economic times, it seems irresponsible for the Chicago Tribune to report this as news. The article represents nothing more than opinion which a lot of people currently without work will misinterpret as fact and act upon, waiting for the predicted boom to occur.
Luckily, I am still employed, but I know that if the current economic conditions don't change for the better, I will be looking for work in a few months myself. It seems to me that one of the most irresponsible, even stupid, things that I could do now is to dip into my savngs to "improve my skill set" because a bunch of experts with books to sell have convinced the Chicago Tribune that there is another high tech boom just around the corner!
My mortgage doesn't care how up to date my skill set is. Neither does the grocery bill each week. I sympathize with those who are looking for work. I'll probably be doing the same thing in a few months, and I think the smartest thing any IT worker can do right now is prepare to get through the here and now, and not these boom times that are part of imagined future.
Re:Article is PR for staffing and education (Score:3)
History of one IT person (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:History of one IT person (Score:5, Insightful)
Bill Gates might be evil but nobody thinks he is stupid and yet he missed the importance of the Internet until it was almost too late. Events like that have happened several times in this industry and history hasn't stopped. And it will probably be NOW, while the world is worrying about other 'important' things that the next world shaking invention is working it's way out a garage somewhere. Be ready for it when it happens and be an early adopter and expert on it.
Some Clarification (Score:5, Interesting)
In response to the question asked in the write-up, "Could this be a turning point in the labor market?" - no. This isn't talking about some specific turning point (and indeed most posts are currently noting that people feel the current workforce is so diminished that a doubling of jobs isn't much growth at all); rather this article is talking about a general demographic trend. We're entering the time period where the baby boomers are starting to retire, and the generations that follow after them do not have as large of a population. According to the article, "between now and 2010, for every new member added to the workforce there will be 2.6 new jobs created."
The title "Tech Jobs Projected to Double by 2010" comes from looking at the table provided at the bottom of the article where it states that the occupation of "Computer software engineers, applications" will grow from a current 380,000 jobs in 2000 to 760,000 jobs in 2010, or 100% growth. Note that that's job growth between 2000 and 2010, not between today and 2010 - so think about employment levels in 2000 instead of today; I know our company was twice as large in 2000 as it is today. The table actually lists 9 different jobs that I would call "Tech Jobs" that have pretty healthy growth rates - the tech slant in the article is that while all jobs are growing (in part due to baby boomer retirement) technology jobs are growing faster than any other jobs.
The implication of the article is that because this job growth rate will lead to a tighter employment market than was seen in the 1990's we will someday soon (well, someday before 2010) see the type of high wage growth and high starting wages in the tech industry that were a signature of the 1990's boom. All due to supply and demand in a labor market where people are retiring faster than new people enter the market.
My personal concern is that as this occurs the cost of Social Security will skyrocket (due to all those retiring folks), and if our federal budget keeps going the way it is we're going to end up with very high taxes that could offset the benefits of higher wages. (Of course, this will end up screwing the poor more than anyone else, of course, because payroll taxes aren't progressive - everyone pays the same percent no matter what.)
On a positive note (for those of us who call ourselves employees), this article should be a wake up call to employers to start treating their workers well, or they might have major problems in 7 years. With all the blogs, messageboards, and websites (F*ed Company comes to mind) that are storing a record of how companies treat their workers, you will end up paying tomorrow for the sins you commit today.
Social Security (OT) (Score:3, Insightful)
My personal concern is that as this occurs the cost of Social Security will skyrocket (due to all those retiring folks), and if our federal budget keeps going the way it is we're going to end up with very high taxes that could offset the benefits of higher wages.
I think most people would agree that the US's current Social Security program is non-sustainable. I pay Social Security, but I don't expect to see any of that money when I retire in 30+ years. Fortunately, I am a pessimist and I'm planning for r
Correction! (Score:5, Funny)
Interesting data and a bit of context (Score:5, Informative)
A computer programmer per the BLS, will:
A software engineer for applications per the BLS, will:
And a software engineer for systems will:
The BLS also mentions that a job as a software engineer is only likely with at least a bachelor's degree in a related discipline.
I'm probably getting out of coding... (Score:3, Interesting)
Haven't we heard this before? (Score:3)
I will believe it when I see it.
In related news.... (Score:5, Funny)
Correction "Indian/Chinese" IT market will grow... (Score:4, Insightful)
The gartner group estimates that 38% of all IT jobs currently are outsourced to oversea's comapnies and that is expecting to grow over 50% during 2004!
Its going to get alot worse in the future as the remaining companies who have "expensive" American workers will feel the pinch of competition from those who outsourced and now sell there products cheaper.
Re:Correction "Indian/Chinese" IT market will grow (Score:3, Insightful)
Further, based on direct contacts with Indian outsourcing firms, there are two other phenomena of interest:
1. Indian outsourcers are hiring American front-ends.
2. Indian outsourcers are starting to do their own outsourcing as the Indian labor pool becomes more expensive.
Things that are outsourced tend to be the more "mechanical" jobs, requ
Read the NYT Magazine from Sunday (Score:3, Interesting)
Regardless, the whole personal downward spiral was presented, including ugly spousal relationships, disappearing financial futures, McJobs, and so on.
One guy had a job as some kind of "New Media/New Economy" guru, one guy had a PhD in physical chemistry but became an "IT Consultant" and another guy was a banker.
The banker was in the best situation, kids college funds and his retirement were pretty squared away, it was mainly maintaining his current standard of living that was at risk.
The New Media/Economy guy (who has a set of computer books, "Einstein's Manuals" or something, written pre-Dummies) seems fairly finished. He's working at the Gap for $10 and it seems unlikely that his particular speciality will ever be revived.
The IT Consultant was hard to judge. He's obviously smart (PhD), but what kind of an IT Consultant is he? He was one of those guys that moved into IT in the 90s from another tech field and probably got pretty advanced positions due to his educational background and general intelligence relative to what was available in the job market now. The bummer for him is that he's looking for those same, $150K jobs and they're gone forever. If he was looking for techmonkey work he might do better, but it wouldn't support the $2.5k mortgage.
What I can't decide is if the economy is permanently shrunk or if the "new economy" portion + excessive profits part only. It's scary, anyway.
here's what they really mean: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Text of article (if ya don't want to register) (Score:5, Funny)
Re:but the real question is (Score:2, Interesting)
also equally viable yesterday. Why would they
be more viable tomorrow? Please understand that
hourly rates is not the only consideration when
it comes to build a 5=Billion plant, or to where
to locate you business, in general. At least not
most of the time.
Re:Yippie!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you know what is a laughable sum? $0.00. Anything else in a time of job shortage is good. Just because you can't get a job being lord high muck doesn't mean you can't move out into other areas, and man if you're on your last bagel you will do anything.
I have done everything from stuffing envelopes to deliviring junk mail(yes I was a snail mail spammer), from working in Pizza Hut to being the only development guy in my organisation. One thing I have learnt is do not be too fucking proud to accept the shit jobs. They may be shit but at least they pay more than sitting on your arse waiting for the magical call from the recruitment agency.
Re:what are you doing now? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you can get certifications but not experience which should you go and get? Wait? didn't I just premise that you couldn't get experience? So that would mean... if you can get a certification it won't hurt. If it turns out to hurt