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SCO's Other Investor: Sun Microsystems 414

Vicegrip writes "Apparently Sun not only bought extra licenses from SCO, but also obtained the option to buy a nice stake in the company: 'The pact, signed earlier this year, expanded the rights Sun acquired in 1994 to use Unix in its Solaris operating system. But there's more to the relationship: SCO also granted Sun a warrant to buy as many as 210,000 shares of SCO stock at $1.83 per share as part of the licensing deal, according to a regulatory document filed Tuesday.'" A reader points out Ransom Love's 2000 Linuxworld keynote speech.
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SCO's Other Investor: Sun Microsystems

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  • SCO who? (Score:5, Informative)

    by linuxislandsucks ( 461335 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:42AM (#6414271) Homepage Journal
    you should also note that the only reason for the expansion of the license was to allow sun to do intel hardware drivers under Solaris..soemthing they could have adpoted from Linux without any costs what so ever..

    • Re:SCO who? (Score:2, Informative)

      by hashish ( 62254 )
      yeah, but adapting from linux/GNU would mean continuing on with the GPL license, something they want to keep Solaris separate from.
      • Then why couldn't they have gone back to BSD where they came from? Doesn't FreeBSD support enough hardware? Why do they need to buy from SCOrdure?

        -uso.
        • Re:SCO who? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by cshark ( 673578 )
          Because they're up to something. What do microsoft and sun both have in common? An interest in seeing linux dissapear. Think about it...
    • Nope (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Walles ( 99143 ) <johan.walles@noSpAm.gmail.com> on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:52AM (#6414350)
      Most of the Linux hardware drivers are GPL. To use them SUN would need to change the license of their kernel to something GPL friendly.

      SUN probably wouldn't call that "without any costs what so ever".

      • Re:Nope (Score:3, Funny)

        by Chris Burke ( 6130 )
        Awww... A large corporation can't use work developed by volunteers in their spare time for free in their own non-free product! It's so tragic, like a sick puppy!

        A sick, demented puppy.

        With a heart full of evil. That wants to eat your children and steal your source code. Or something.

        I need coffee.
      • Re:Nope (Score:5, Informative)

        by Pieroxy ( 222434 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @11:11AM (#6415913) Homepage
        I don't think so. You can distribute any GPL product with your OS without making it open.

        They would have to make public the modifications they did on the driver itself to integrate it to the kernel, but not the kernel itself!
        • Not exactly. . . (Score:3, Informative)

          by Eric Damron ( 553630 )
          Well that is debatable. Any software that is derived from GPL'd code must be put under the GPL license. The question is: If your code links to a piece of GPL'd code does that mean that the GPL'd code has become part of it and therefore your code is derived from the GPL'd code?

          Drivers must link with the kernel so most feel that they must be GPL'd. There are companies that put out proprietary drivers NVIDIA etc. If you use these drivers they "taint" your kernel. Most people don't care.

          I am of the opin
    • Re:SCO who? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Laur ( 673497 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:56AM (#6414386)
      you should also note that the only reason for the expansion of the license was to allow sun to do intel hardware drivers under Solaris..soemthing they could have adpoted from Linux without any costs what so ever.

      I'm sure this was far from the only reason. They could have just adapted drivers from BSD with little licensing restrictions. Also, Sun had Solaris working on Intel long before this deal. My guess is that one of the primary motivations from Sun is the FUD factor. "Switch to Sun , the ONLY 100% in the clear, IP legit UNIX vendor."

      • Re:SCO who? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by tpv ( 155309 )
        You can call it the FUD factor, or you can call it the safety factory.

        Maybe SUN just thought that paying for an expanded license now was good economics. It's certainly going to be cheaper to buy it now than it would be if (by some bizarre course of events) SCO wins.

        Sun claims to be the only Unix vendor still committed to maintaining their unix version. That claim would appear to be more-or-less true. This purchase just looks like an attempt to enforce that committment.

        As a Sun customer, this news is a

    • Re:SCO who? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by astrosmurf ( 546405 )
      I am no expert on the GPL, but would not incorporating linux code into solaris make that distribution of solais solaris GPLed? I doubt that is a price SUN is ready to pay.

      I don't know who said it, but there is aquate saying approximately that:
      just because GPLed stuff is free does not mean that it is cheap...
  • Shares (Score:4, Insightful)

    by deman1985 ( 684265 ) <dedwards&kappastone,com> on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:42AM (#6414274) Homepage
    Granting Sun a warrant to buy shares, eh? Sounds pretty overconfident to me. I'll hop right on that bandwagon and buy into the sinking ship!
    • Re:Shares (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:54AM (#6414367) Homepage
      Um...

      SCO price as of this moment: $11.16.

      Warrant price: $1.86.

      Current profit: $9.3/share x 210,000 shares = $1,953,000.

      Obviously it depends on the specific terms of the trade, such as when they are allowed to actually purchase the shares, any limitations on selling, etc. Still, a couple million in profit doesn't sound bad to me, and probably doesn't sound bad to Sun either.

      If Sun was smart, they'd buy then sell as quickly as possible. Who knows how long SCO can keep the FUD train rolling?
      • Re:Shares (Score:5, Insightful)

        by haystor ( 102186 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:05AM (#6414458)
        You have to be careful with options. You could exercise them and realize a taxable gain of $2million but still be under contract not to sell the stock for quite a while. During that time the price could go down significantly until you actually owe more in taxes than the stock is worth. Its less of a no brainer than it may seem at first glance.

        I'm sure some people on this board can comment on how they may have learned this lesson.

        Most employee stock options allow you to sell the stock immediately upon exercising the option. I would recommend selling at least enough stock to cover the tax burden immediately just to eliminate the tax risk from your portfolio.

        • Re:Shares (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Chris Burke ( 6130 )
          You could exercise them and realize a taxable gain of $2million but still be under contract not to sell the stock for quite a while.

          That would suck. If the contract does specify a lengthy delay (say, the amount of time SCO thinks they can continue to snow the market + 1 day) Sun would be smarter to just wait and see if this comes to anything. I wonder if Sun would have negotiated a shorter term realizing this possibility. I don't think SCO would mind, since they seem happy to deal with anyone who can l
      • Re:Shares (Score:3, Insightful)

        Except that dumping $2m worth of stock on the market might just cause the share price to implode!

        We can hope anyway.
      • Re:Shares (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Jungle guy ( 567570 ) <brunolmailbox-ge ... pAm.yahoo.com.br> on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:35AM (#6414704) Journal
        According to Sun, the revenue for the third quarter was 2.79 BILLION, and, as business have been tough lately, their net income was "only" 4 million. 2 million is a lot for you and me, but not for a company like Sun, as they would get in return the animosity of all open source developers. Remember: Sun was almost forced to become a partner of the Slashdot readers, and have adopted Gnome as their desktop enviroment.
      • Re:Shares (Score:5, Funny)

        by cshark ( 673578 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:57AM (#6415704)
        SCO price as of this moment: $11.16.

        Warrant price: $1.86.

        Current profit: $9.3/share x 210,000 shares = $1,953,000.


        Knowing SCO and their cronies will be crushed by IBM the minute this thing hits court: priceless
    • Re:Shares (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jahf ( 21968 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:58AM (#6414405) Journal
      Yeah because that much money (210,000 shares * $2 share = $384,300) is really going to make or break Sun. Uh-huh.

      Look, even if shares of SCO went up by -one thousand times- their current value, Sun would only make $384,300,000. That is 2.3% of Sun's current market capitalization. As it is now, even if they buy and lose that money it is barely a dent in their quarterly operating budget.

      Yes, I work for Sun. Yes, I think this stock deal is a tiny bit of a black mark in terms of supporting the Linux community (but not in a financial sense ... if SCO wins then their stock will go up though not near 1,000x what it is now ... and if they lose Sun doesn't have to buy the shares).

      But seriously, the math is simple and available to anyone looking at it. This should not be a big deal. If Sun has options to buy 12,900,000 more shares of SCOX (the total outstanding), -then- I would worry about Sun's intent here.

      • >>Yeah because that much money (210,000 shares * $2 share = $384,300) is really going to make or break Sun. Uh-huh.>Yes, I work for Sun. Yes, I think this stock deal is a tiny bit of a black mark in terms of supporting the Linux community>But seriously, the math is simple and available to anyone looking at it

        Not to simple for you. The warrents are not big deal. But it does show which side Sun is on.
      • Re:Shares (Score:4, Insightful)

        by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:25AM (#6414614)
        Not sure what happend to my post, I'll try again.

        "Yeah because that much money (210,000 shares * $2 share = $384,300) is really going to make or break Sun. Uh-huh"

        I think you have the math wrong, as previous poster pointed out:
        ---
        SCO price as of this moment: $11.16.
        Warrant price: $1.86.
        Current profit: $9.3/share x 210,000 shares = $1,953,000
        ---


        "Yes, I work for Sun. Yes, I think this stock deal is a tiny bit of a black mark in terms of supporting the Linux community"

        Tiny? I think penguin-suit suit McNealy has just revealed whos side SUNW is on, after having lied about it all this time. SCO and MSFT are out to ruin Linux, and SUNW is bed with both of them. What a surprise, what three companies have the most to gain from ruining Linux?

        Why do you suppose SUNW wanted to keep this quite?
  • by mikeophile ( 647318 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:44AM (#6414284)
    Since IBM has the option of planting a nice stake in SCO.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:44AM (#6414285)
    If SCO wins, and their shares skyrocket, Sun can still buy at $1.83. If they don't win? Well, no sweat off Sun's back - the deal was done in the past and is a sunk cost. I'd love to be in that spot.
  • by Surak ( 18578 ) * <{moc.skcolbliam} {ta} {karus}> on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:44AM (#6414289) Homepage Journal
    Although Sun has broader rights than do other Unix licensees such as IBM and Hewlett-Packard, it doesn't have the right to release Unix source code or Sun modifications to it as open-source software, SCO spokesman Blake Stowell said.

    Yeah...but...*flashback to Linuxworld 2000*

    But clearly we are going to add components back to the Linux kernel on both IA-32 and IA-64 platforms. We'll work with Linus and everyone in order to make that available. ... so *you* did, and, apparently well, you *did*. Therefore, you should just shut up now. M'kay?

    Thank you.

    • There's nothing stopping Sun writing drivers for linux. They're just not allowed to use the SCO code as a basis for those drivers. It's a little unclear which they plan to do from those quotes.

      On the other hand, it could be a case of marketing foot-in-mouth without clearing stuff with lawyers etc. *shrug*

      • On the other hand, it could be a case of marketing foot-in-mouth without clearing stuff with lawyers etc. *shrug*

        Um, yeah, but ... they *did*! Who donated the SMP motherboard Alan Cox used to write the initial SMP code in the Linux kernel? Oh, right. It was *SCO* (nee Caldera).

    • Face it...Sun is a business, and all businesses have the number one goal of making money. Sun makes money off of proprietary software. There's no way that they will risk any of it becoming open source, unless it makes good financial sense. Jumping on the bandwagon and promising to add to Linux gave them good publicity at the time. I have no clue whether or not that move actually made them money, but it definately couldn't hurt. Fast forward a couple of years, and now it makes more financial sense to pr
    • by Watts Martin ( 3616 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:10AM (#6415046) Homepage

      Remember that the "you" in this case was Ransom Love, who led the pre-SCO Caldera. Nobody who's at SCO now seems to have any conception of the history Caldera had with Linux. It's not clear they have much conception of the history the original SCO had with Unix, for that matter.

      To the person who answered this with "And you believed this?" I'd probably say, "Sure, I believe Love meant what he said." Unfortunately, while corporations may be legal persons, they very often are legal persons with no long-term memory. (As someone pointed out, Darl McBride has claimed that SCO owns C++ [zdnet.co.uk]; while I have to give the man points for ambition, I don't think he has the faintest clue about Unix and Linux history.)

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:45AM (#6414294)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:hmm... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:54AM (#6414370)
      My company got the same letter suggesting that we move from AIX to Solaris over concerns with the AIX license status. My boss showed me the letter and asked what I thought because I work in IT. After I controlled my laughing, I told him to ignore it and make sure that we do not ever buy anything from Sun (not that we ever have).

      I hope the people at Sun realize that they are just going to piss IT people off more and more. This thinly-disguised "licensing" agreement with SCO will not win them any new friends even if Sun's intentions are good and they want to expand Solaris on x86. I think the Sun will be setting (pun intended!)
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:59AM (#6414409)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:hmm... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by toriver ( 11308 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:16AM (#6414547)
      drop AIX and buy Solaris

      Well that would require a Solaris for RS6xxx or PowerPC platform wouldn't it?
      • It's my understanding that at one point there WAS Solaris for the RS6K. I don't believe it was ever made available to customers, but it was developed.
    • Country / Prospect: We're moving towards Open Source.
      SCO : But Linux contains our IP! You gotts pay us money....
      Prospect: I'll wait till your case against IBM is over..
      Exit SCO, enter MS:
      MS: We'll give you 85% discounts for our secure Windows platform...
      Prospect: No thanks, I'll call you later..
      Exit MS, enter Sun:
      Sun: We hold all Unix rights, and SCO seems like winning the case. Better switch to Solaris - it's safer than Aix.
      Prospect: What the hell, GNU /Linux is enuff ro me. .... and so on. Only winner :
    • Re:hmm... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Craig Maloney ( 1104 ) * on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:32AM (#6414668) Homepage
      I'd be more concerned about having to work with AIX than whether or not the license for AIX will spontaneously combust in a flurry of litigation.

      Personal preference.. that's all.

    • by hughk ( 248126 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:49AM (#6414856) Journal
      I don't say this but the company where I'm currently working (a very large bank) has published an internal strategy document. Essentially they see the future being split between Linux and Windows. This may not seem like news to a lot of you reading this, however 1) they used to be an AIX customer, they currently have a *lot* of Sun boxes. Sun is very big in investment banking since companies like Digital screwed up their pricing/marketing. If a lot of banks decide to ditch Sun boxes, it will hurt them as the banbks like to buy big high-margin enterprise servers.

      AIX itself wasn't bad, but the bank had a bad case of management consultants who told them that Sun was in fashion. Now it seems that Linux is in.

  • Quick cash for Sun (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TopShelf ( 92521 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:46AM (#6414298) Homepage Journal
    Since the stock deal represents roughly 1.5% of SCO's outstanding shares, Sun would probably be better off taking the cash and running. Since SCO is currently trading around $11 a share, Sun could buy at $1.83, sell immediately and pocket about $2 million profit. Given the recent runup [yahoo.com] in the SCO stock price, perhaps Sun is waiting to see how much more they could make...
  • Migration... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:47AM (#6414311)

    What are Sun thinking? They want everyone to migrate off Sun boxes like people have been doing to SCO?

    Stuff like this annoys techies and techies have quite a lot of influence over IT purchasing decisions in many businesses. Do Sun think that supporting SCO is going to win them more business than it will lose them? My understanding of business is that it is a very bad move to do stuff that your customers dislike...
    • Re:Migration... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Laur ( 673497 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:06AM (#6414468)
      I'm guessing this is why Sun hasn't been advertising the fact that they are supporting SCO. They licensed the code back in February and we just learned about it from SCO regulatory filings. Remember, February was before SCO started making all of the crazy accusations against Linux (all your code belong to...). Sun doesn't want to be associated with SCO but wants to profit from the FUD. Of course, it was bound to come out sooner or later. The backlash will be interesting to watch.
    • by teambpsi ( 307527 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:14AM (#6414522) Homepage
      Wow, I feel like any loyalty and good will I had toward Sun just went out the window!

      I don't care if its for their shitty Intel version of Solaris, which just doesn't perform -- and doesn't have the widespread driver support -- the earlier post was correct : They could have obtained it from linux

      After graduating I insisted on Sun hardware in the newco I started.

      After this, I can assure you when our Enterprise Server dies, it will be replaced with an army of FreeBSD boxes (which we already run for other servers)

      Good job sun -- you've soiled yourselves with the stink of the new pariah

      The enemy of your enemy in this case was not your friend

      I hope IBM buys your sorry assets out, because we're done with you
  • by will_die ( 586523 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:48AM (#6414318) Homepage
    Reading the article it seemed that this was primarily a purchase of code.
    Sun purchased drivers and other stuff to use in its i86 version of Solaris, along with the rights to show that code to others.
    As for the stock options; SCO probably needed the cash, Solaris had the cash so the directors of Sun decided to gamble. Solaris gets options for a price, and if SCO does good they stand to make a really nice profit. SCO gets some additional cash and has a little protection from Solaris since any action by Sun has to include potential profits from using the stock options.
  • Makes sense for Sun. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:48AM (#6414319) Homepage Journal
    Sun has been facing a dilemma for some time now. Originally a high-tier supplier, they're getting pushed down the chain. Once upon a time, they were an excellent choice for network infrastructure and servers. But now?

    Even the largest companies who need big iron systems rarely go to Sun anymore. Google has shown that even using thousands of 'white boxes' works, and Apple, Microsoft, and even IBM have been muscling in on Sun's traditional market. The dot com days were great for Sun, but now they're left as a giant church without any congregation.

    So Sun needs a way to exercise its muscle once again, and with its recent tie up with Oracle, it's starting to do this (albeit with help). If Sun can carve out a significant role in the SCO case, it could certainly cash in from the exposure, and any potential win for SCO.

    Of course, I don't think SCO stands a chance, and that we're going to see traditional UNIX crash down around itself. Sun has always been a company that intrigues me in the amazing way it runs 'behind the scenes' (the 'Sun Library' is amazing! and their usability work is delightful).. but on the front end, they're sucking big time, IMHO, and I think they could be one of the next big technology fallers.
    • by axle_512 ( 199903 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:58AM (#6414398)
      Even the largest companies who need big iron systems rarely go to Sun anymore.

      What are you talking about?
      I happen to do business with some of the largest companies on the block, and I've seen their server rooms, and I've seen their Sun Ultra 15K's. Sun isn't selling big iron to the largest companies? Yeah, right!
    • by jregel ( 39009 )
      I'd disagree with your assertion that large companies are rarely going to Sun. The company I work for is a software supplier and Sun is selling extremely well. Their offerings were starting to look tired and aged, but the new[ish] Sun Fire range is very good, especially with the lowend V240. Combined with a D2 disk array, you have a competatively priced server that stands up well against Wintel hardware running Windows 2000.

      Solaris is very mature, and has several advantages over Linux (simple example: buil
      • While the grandparent may have overstated the case, Sun is indeed going through some rough times these days, rougher than most big tech firms. Linux is presenting a tempting option that's eating away at Sun's customer base, forcing Sun to move into lower-end markets than they have in the past, and providing a drag on their high-margin business. The future outlook for Sun is cloudy at best (pun intended).

        In short, Linux threatens Sun in the short- to medium-term far more than it threatens Microsoft, and i
    • Hmmm, well, until the Linux non-blocking I/O kernel fixes and NGPT (this is already avail in RedHat 9 and maybe others I think) get propagated thru the various enterprise distros, Solaris will still be a viable OS for scalability and performance. I've seen external storage first hand just take a nose dive on a 8-way Xeon box because of the non-blocking I/O on Linux. The Win2k equiv smoked the Linux box, unfortunately.

      That said, the above is just around the corner and it won't be long before Linux on Optero
    • Wall St buys a lot of computers, and it's still 99% Sun in the server room. We're experimenting with Linux on wintel, but it's just that, and experiment, and it's also tied to very specific areas. There is no doubt that sun are in trouble, and are less important than they used to be, but to say people aren't buying sun hardware is plain wrong.
  • Yawn. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Who really cares anymore? Technically, this isn't news either. This is boring old propaganda which attempts to arouse the brainwashed masses (your typical Slashdot reader). SCO is just evil company of the month. Next month it will be Microsoft again. Just wait.
  • Some have theorized that some power behind SCO is manipulating them to try to destroy Linux, much the same way that Emporer Palpatine manipulated Vader to destroy Luke and the rebels. Everyone thought it was obvious that this unseen power was Microsoft. What if it's Sun? In some ways, Sun has more to lose--they sell a Unix and Linux, while a good Windows replacement, is an even better Unix replacement. 1 copy of Linux running on 5 x86 machines will cost less and perform better than one copy of Solaris on a Sun workstation.

    With this in mind, it would be wise to look on other Sun news with suspicion. For example, they are a safe harbor [slashdot.org]. Could Sun be playing Senator Palpatine to SCO's Darth Maul and Microsoft's Trading Federation?

  • by jkrise ( 535370 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:55AM (#6414376) Journal
    1. SCO could be picked up by Sun, since the latter has a better image in the market. That could give a boost to the battered image of SCO.

    2. More and more, there seems to be some Coke-Pepsi posturing, with MS and Windows pitted against Sun& Unix. Linux is too well entrenched for such a thing to work.

    3. All the firms who've picked up a stake so far in the Unix code patent have been American firms. This could be the beginning of some polarisation, where all important IP is within the US. This could have serious repercussions for firms like Fujitsu, Siemens etc. who aren't based in the US.

    The saving grace: Any number of firms (SCO, Sun etc.) haven't managed to achieve a small fraction of the success which Linux has done - on the Intel platform. It appears too late now for anyone to rollback on the spectacular progress made by Linux.

    If Sun does indeed pick up stakes in SCO, they'd be hated more than Microsoft - if ever that would be possible.

    • 3. All the firms who've picked up a stake so far in the Unix code patent have been American firms. This could be the beginning of some polarisation, where all important IP is within the US. This could have serious repercussions for firms like Fujitsu, Siemens etc. who aren't based in the US.

      Huh? How so? Linux is by far not US bound IP property... Neither is Word Perfect *, or Open Office... Need I continue.

      Besides, how does that impact the rest of the world? It doesn't there is enough talent outside the
    • >3. All the firms who've picked up a stake so far in the Unix code patent have been American firms. This could be the beginning of some polarisation, where all important IP is within the US. This could have serious repercussions for firms like Fujitsu, Siemens etc. who aren't based in the US.

      Or it will be the final breaking point that convinces the Europeans not to seek a patent system modelled after the Americans. Especially with regards to software patents.
    • *sigh* Dream scenario:

      Sun buys SCO. Sun is now failing, IBM picks up Sun. Microsoft starts failing because Linux is kicking its ass. IBM buys Microsoft, and now the Old Evil Empire replaces the New Evil Empire, and everything starts all over again. Bill Gates rises to power at IBM and becomes chairperson. I, who have played the stock market well through all this, buy Bill Gates and become Ruler of the Known Universe.

      Muahahahahah!!!! My EVIL PLANS are SUCCEEDING! ;-)
  • It sounds like.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rkz ( 667993 )
    If Sun are as bad as Microsoft, both buying junk SCO licences to fund their "kill Linux" crusade. I might as well develop apps in C# now my belief that Sun actually want to help the open source community.

    Fuck Sco, Fuck Microsoft, Fuck Sun, Fuck a goat.
  • by Curtman ( 556920 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @08:59AM (#6414416)
    I'd really like to know how SCO continues to distribute the kernel source [sco.com] GPL and all, and claim that code isn't covered by the GPL.
    • I wonder what the best way is to silently document the fact that they continue to distribute everything, even if they are not collecting money for it, without repeatedly stating it on slashdot.

      If we keep pointing this out, perhaps they will get wise and stop distributing it, so they can say "we stopped distributing all source code shortly after discovering it" -- what is 6 months versus 3 -- as opposed to being ambushed years later by the fact that they still distribute the GPLed code presumably containing

    • The linked source is for a linux kernel. The code in contention is Unix System V.

      That's how. One code is GPL (Linux), another is not (Unix).

      Linux != Unix
      • The code in contention is Unix System V.

        Is [vnunet.com] that [linuxjournal.com] a [computerworld.com] fact? [sco.com].

        I suppose someone ought to tell the guys at SCO that, because they seem blissfully unaware.
      • SCO has made allegations that Linux contains SCO intellectual property. As SCO is distributing Linux, and the GPL only allows distribution of GPL code as long as all parts of the combined work are distributable under the terms of the GPL that means that any alleged SCO intellectual property included in Linux is distributable under the terms of the GPL. Otherwise SCO would be in violation of the GPL and engaging in copyright violation because they would distributing Linux without permission.

        It has no bearin
  • Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)

    by decaf_dude ( 171976 )
    They seem to think SCO has merit because they're reserving the stock at a price, assuming it's going to shoot up (which it will, should SCO win the case).

    --
    Now playing: Leper Messiah (Metallica/Master of Puppets)
  • They can continue to charge their hourly rates and half the time, they just have to come here to begin finding more evidence to bury SCO. Geeks are doing their legwork.

    Think of it as open-source lawyering.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:03AM (#6414445)
    If I were a CIO or CTO debating the TCO of *nix vs. Win2K3 to a CEO, would IBM vs. SCO be the TKO that stops the CEO from approving A/P to pay my PO for RH's LGX?

    FWIW, even if OSS is FAIB, if the DOJ considers *nix IP with a TM, then it basically become's SCO's LIC, meaning our OSS becomes a CSS OS, which would RSTBO.

    AIBO going w/ an ASP that manages our OS? BTA, we might end up w/ a BOFH giving us ZA, which WWAD PMS.

    AFAIK, INMP if SCO wants to be ITM by enforcing its supposed IPR - *nix IP should be PD or GNU, like BSD just on GP, IYKWIM. I keep asking myself in this situation - WWLD?

    Oh, BTW - IITYWIMWYBMAD?

    ---
    balls to the original:
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=680 41&cid=6232 258
  • C-oinki-dink? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Asprin ( 545477 )

    Didn't Sun announce earlier this year that they were dropping their Linux program?

    Coincidence?

    • Re:C-oinki-dink? (Score:5, Informative)

      by mihalis ( 28146 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:09AM (#6414490) Homepage
      Didn't Sun announce earlier this year that they were dropping their Linux program?

      Well yes, they aren't making "Sun Linux" any more. However it was just Red Hat under the covers. Now they just call it RedHat. Move along, nothing to see here.

      Coincidence?

      yes

    • Except they announced nothing of the sort. Sun announced that they were going with 'Industry Standard' Linux distributions on the X86 servers they are shipping as customers weren't really interested in the Sun specific distribution that was 'Sun Linux 5.0'. On the Intel based kit they now sell you can buy and get support for Red Hat directly from Sun, or you can go with Solaris x86 and obviously get support for that too. Otherwise you are free to put whatever you like on the boxes.

  • by TobascoKid ( 82629 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:07AM (#6414471) Homepage
    I don't think Sun's invovlment with SCO is particularly surprising - just as the MS marketing department are getting more fodder for thier battle against linux and the gpl, Sun's marketing department are getting fodder for thier battle with IBM/AIX.

    As for the share options, that's like playing the lottery except that you only have buy your ticket if your numbers come up - it's highly unlikely that you're going win, but if you do you'll win big and it doesn't cost anything to play. This was probably just a little sweetener from SCO to get some extra cash in the war chest - enough to make Sun go from "That's a bit expensive for the marketing value" to "What the hell, have some cash"

    Tk
  • Ransom Love. Nice man to work for SCO ;-)
  • by gregfortune ( 313889 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:13AM (#6414519)
    Interestingly enough, if you take the total dollar amount of 384,300, you can find the following:
    1. First, split the number in half and consider 384.
    2. Number alphabet starting from 0 (of course that's how it is numbered, silly).
    3. Translate to alpha by mapping 3 to D, 8 to I, and 4 to E.
    4. Neat, that spells Die
    5. Now, consider 300... We also need to note that the numbre preceding 300 is a 4. Also note that the evil genius who made this code forces us to renumber the alphabet again, but this time starting with 1. (This is going to be trickier)
    6. Now, for each index, add 5 * the value at that index plus the value at the previous index. For example, the first index (3) would be 5*3 + 4 = 19. The second index (0) is 5*0 + 3 = 3 and the third index is 5*0 + 0=0
    7. So now we are left with 19,3,0
    8. Translated that is SC, but the 0 doesn't work in the new number scheme for the alphabet. Obviously the evil genius expects us to translate 0 to O.
    9. That leaves the last three letters as SCO
    10. Now, putting the two chunks together, we can see that the value Sun negotiated for was really "Die SCO"

      Clearly, Sun is on our side.
  • Nothing new (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jack Comics ( 631233 ) * <jack_comics @ p o s t x s .org> on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:15AM (#6414538) Homepage
    This is nothing new. It only boils down to: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Microsoft and Sun don't like each other, but they have a common enemy: Linux. Thus it makes sense for them both to provide funds to SCO and help contribute to all the anti-Linux FUD. Once Linux is sufficently taken care of, Microsoft and Sun can go back to hating each other, or that's their plan anyway.
    • Sorry, but this is complete FUD. Sun has a Linux product and promotes it. It's RedHat under the covers. Click here for the page [sun.com]
    • >>Microsoft and Sun don't like each other, but they have a common enemy: Linux.

      Msft and sco-caldera aren't exactly the best of buddies either. sco-caldera is the company that sued msft over the dr-dos thing.

      sco-caldera had just bought dr-dos, after sco-caldera got a big fat msft settlement check, soc-calder threw dr-dos on the scrap head.

      sc-caldera = rambus.
  • From the article:

    "Sun's complete line of Solaris and Linux products...are covered by Sun's portfolio of Unix licensing agreements. Solaris and Sun Linux represent safe choices for those companies that develop and deploy services based on Unix systems," Sun declared the day SCO filed suit against IBM.

    Unless Sun changes the licensing terms of "Sun Linux" it's released as GPL'd code, right? Once ANYONE releases, with SCO's blessing, the "secret sauce" code as GPL it's free for everyone, right? What am

  • by expro ( 597113 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:29AM (#6414647)

    In other news senior VP bails from SCO, demonstrating a likely opinion of advanced technologists there about the merits of the case and the future of the company. [theinquirer.net]

    This post was not intended to be funny, but only off topic, since I have been repeatedly unsuccessful with story submissions that actually contain significant new interesting information about the case.

    That Sun was trumpetting their status as a SCO licensee of Unix in disregard for any solidarity with Unix or Linux vendors or users was obvious, and this "revelation" was not a suprise in the least. It just means that Sun gave them a small amount of money a bit more recently.

  • by deanj ( 519759 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:31AM (#6414658)
    You know, NEWS.com should stick to news, not editorials masked as real news. Check this out:
    Sun hasn't been ashamed to try to profit from the effects of that suit. It jumped at the chance to declare itself a safe haven for spooked technology buyers: "Sun's complete line of Solaris and Linux products...are covered by Sun's portfolio of Unix licensing agreements. Solaris and Sun Linux represent safe choices for those companies that develop and deploy services based on Unix systems," Sun declared the day SCO filed suit against IBM.

    Profiting? No, what they're actually doing is telling customers (current and future) that while SCO is wielding that axe trying to find someone to hit and profit from, Sun has already got all the licenses in place (since 1994) and people with Sun products don't have to worry.

    Remember, SCO is running around telling people that even buying and running Linux will get you sued. Sun's just trying to say "whoa...none of our customers are going to get sued for things they've been running for quite some time now.

  • by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @09:33AM (#6414678) Homepage Journal
    Scene: Fancy Restaurant

    Enter a certain Well Known Penguin.

    Waiter: Morning, welcome to the Lawsuit and Buyout Cafe, sit right here and may I take your order?

    CWKP: (scanning menu) Morning! Well, what have you got?

    Waiter: Well there's IBM; IBM and Redhat; IBM and SCO; IBM, Redhat and SCO; SCO, IBM, Redhat and Sun; SCO, IBM, Sun and Redhat; SCO, SCO, Redhat and SCO; SCO, SCO, SCO, and SCO;

    Background voices: SCO! SCO! SCO! SCO! Lovely SCO!

    Waiter: Or you can have any distro of Linux you want with a nice side of SCO.

    CWKP: Do you have anything without SCO?

    Waiter: Well there's SCO, Ibm, Redhat and Sun, that's not too tied up in SCO.

    CWKP: You dont' understand, I don't want ANY SCO!

    etc
    etc
    etc
    etc
    ad nausuem.
  • Sun could find that money under the cushions of their couch. This is not news.

    - A.P.
  • Sun has never made a secret of their attitude towards Linux, namely that it's a nice toy, and if people play with it enough then they are going to want to buy a real UNIX (Solaris) on real hardware (UltraSparc).

    Secondly, the SCO CEO said in an interview a while back that Sun were the only company that they considered `safe' from their IP allegations.

  • by illumin8 ( 148082 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:15AM (#6415093) Journal
    Before you read too much into this, you should read the article. Sun needed to purchase new licensing rights to some x86 drivers in order to run Solaris for Intel on their new Xeon servers. That's right, Sun now sells Xeon servers. These kind of licensing agreements happen all the time between companies that need hardware compatibility with the latest and greatest devices.
  • by OldAndSlow ( 528779 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:32AM (#6415279)
    Consider that Sun bought a 300K$ license in Feb, a month or more before SCO publicly went after IBM. Sun may be entirely innocent of anti-Linux actions. Or even intent.

    300K$ is chump change in corporate circles. That's less than the cost of 2 programmers for a year.

    If they got options that are now worth 2 million in the process, I'd say they are good businessfolk.
  • Sun and ethics (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Foz ( 17040 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @11:07AM (#6415846)
    I used to work for Sun. Loved the company, loved what they stood for, felt like I should have been paying them for the privilege of coming to work every day. Truly my dream job. I'm a major Linux bigot, but that didn't stop me from loving Solaris and loving Sun.

    5 years later, the bloom pretty much faded from the rose. Sun made a lot of stupid decisions and strictly in my *opinion* started behaving unethically. They began to reap what they sowed, and the current sad state of affairs at SUNW is a reflection of their abandonment of core Sun ideals. I don't think it's wrong to use ethics as a measuring stick for your business decisions, but I seemed to be in the minority.

    I think this SCO deal is a reflection of the 'new Sun' and an example of everything that is wrong with the company currently. I mourn the loss of the old Sun, and I mourn the impending death of a giant, for I truly believe that Sun is destined for failure if they continue along the current path.

    I used to respect and admire Scott McNealy for his willingness to take a stand and fight for what he thought was right, but somehow along the way Sun leadership no longer does this... they instead hedge their bets, play both sides of the fence, and refuse to stick to their guns on anything when push comes to shove.

    I was one of the many thousands of engineers who got laid off from Sun in the last few years. I did well while I was there, did everything that I thought was humanly possible to ensure Sun's success despite the odds, and I'm sorry to see them fall. I still truly believe that Sun has the potential to regain their dominance in both the market and mindshare, but unfortunately they got rid of all the people who had the intestinal fortitude to make a stand for what they believe in instead of what was politically expedient.

    Sun hardware kicks ass, plain and simple. Solaris is a damned good OS, but no longer the far and away market leader that it used to be. Can it be again? Who knows... I believe that it could given the right attitude and resources but again, that's just a personal opinion. I think Sun could do extremely well partnered with the Linux community (like IBM is doing) instead of being an adversary to it.

    Am I bitter? I'm not bitter about losing my job to economic forces, and I'm not angry towards Sun, nor do I wish them failure. I truly enjoyed working there and would work there again if I felt that they were willing to commit to what it takes to succeed. I'd work until my fingernails bled to help them achieve that, but I don't see them even acknowledging the issues and problems they face, let alone actively striving to correct them. I don't think that makes me bitter, only honest.

    I only hope that Sun some day wakes up, yanks back on the control yoke and comes out of their tailspin before it's too late. Things like this SCO business aren't helping them at all and they are too shortsighted and stubborn to admit it.

    -- Gary F. (who refuses to post as an AC)
  • Chump change (Score:3, Informative)

    by mccrew ( 62494 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @02:15PM (#6418175)
    230,000 shares out of 13 million shares outstanding? 1.7% That's insignificant. There is no leverage there, just an easy payday.

    For me, that would be the equivalent of dinner and a movie, not a new home in the Hollywood hills and a new Hummer.

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