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Technology Hardware

Japan's War On E-Waste 284

Posted by timothy from the circle-of-life dept.
Stonent1 writes "With the increasing number of high tech devices in Japan filling landfills, Japan has taken a proactive approach to E-waste. BBC News has an interesting article on Matsushita's electronics recycling plant. For example, TV and monitor tubes are opened with a special tool and separated into leaded and unleaded glass, melted and reused in new displays! The plastic housing is also melted down and reused. Sounds like a good idea for the U.S., too."
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Japan's War On E-Waste More

Japan's War On E-Waste

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  • Deposit (Score:4, Interesting)

    by l810c ( 551591 ) * on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:18PM (#6512753)
    There should be a deposit on all computer components to handle the recyling. A lot of the stuff gets shipped overseas to become other peoples problems.

    • Re:Deposit (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nordicfrost ( 118437 ) * on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:25PM (#6512811)
      Here, in the land of the midnight sun, we have to pay a recycling and disposal fee for every electronic product. This has an advantage; the store is obligated to take your old TV in return and dispose of it properly. Saves me a trip to recycling plant.

      • Re:Deposit (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Mysticalfruit ( 533341 )
        That sounds like a really good idea!

        It seems to me as an American, that the Scandanavian countries tend to be very progressive in the realm of recycling.

        How much is this "Deposit" though? Does it add significant cost to the product?

        • Re:Deposit (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Hrshgn ( 595514 )
          How much is this "Deposit" though? Does it add significant cost to the product?

          I don't know about Scandinavia but we have the same system in Switzerland. Here you pay about $5 for a $1000-$2000 computer. Items below $200 are recycled for free.

          Switzerland is also "world champion" in the recycling of aluminium and glass. I don't want to show off but a return rate of 93.8% for glass is quite impressive in my opinion.

          Greetings,
          Hrshgn

          • Re:Deposit (Score:3, Interesting)

            by nordicfrost ( 118437 ) *
            Switzerland is also "world champion" in the recycling of aluminium and glass. I don't want to show off but a return rate of 93.8% for glass is quite impressive in my opinion.

            We're up there too, with some 95% recycling of the plastic bottles. The recycling system is made up of two additional expenses: A fee and a deposit. On aluminium, there was a NOK 5 fee per can (0.70 USD) when no recycling program existed. Once the programme started, an additional deposit of NOK 1 was added. But the fee would decrease

        • Re:Deposit (Score:3, Insightful)

          by ductormalef ( 260954 )
          I think a major reason we don't pay as much attention to this kind of thing in the US, is that there is soooo much wide open space here. People seem to have the attitude that junk can always be dumped far enough away to not bother them. In a densely populated country, like Japan, the problem is right in your lap.

          The public in the US needs to be made more aware of this stuff. A bunch of spots on some of those expose shows that always use a hidden camera to show you something "shocking" like how a McDonal

          • Re:Deposit (Score:3, Interesting)

            by VPN3000 ( 561717 )
            I agree with the last part of your statement. But, don't count on much changing here in the states.

            The media does not focus on enviromental issues when there is more 'exciting' news to watch. It's one of the saddest things about being an american in recent years. The media is completely filled with high calory hype with no nutritional content.

            In the great scheme of things, do you think the murder that happened on the bad side of town where two crack dealers killed each other is bigger news than reporting

    • Proactive vs Reactive (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fungii ( 153063 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:40PM (#6512994)
      "With the increasing number of high tech devices in Japan filling landfills, Japan has taken a proactive approach..."

      huh? Clearly they are taking a reactive approach.

      I hate the way people use buzzwords like proactive without stopping to think what they actually mean.

      • Re:Proactive vs Reactive (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        A reactive approach would be when it becomes a serious problem (ie we have no landfill space to put this stuff in what do we do.) A pro-active approach does something about it to prevent it from becoming a serious problem.

    • Re:Deposit (Score:3, Insightful)

      by foooo ( 634898 )
      The Washington State (US) already does this for tires... it's called the tire recycling tax and guess what! It costs more to administer the tax than it produces in tax revenue to cover the actual removal of tires!

      What we *don't* need is more taxes. If anything require that computers be recycled and not just thrown in a landfill. But whomever decided that taxes were the solution (because that's what a government enforced deposit is... a tax) is blind to the fact that adding taxes is a huge negative, adding

    • Re:Deposit (Score:4, Informative)

      by Zardoz44 ( 687730 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:38PM (#6513533) Homepage
      Just make oil out of it:
      Anything Into Oil [discover.com]
      The process is designed to handle almost any waste product imaginable, including turkey offal, tires, plastic bottles, harbor-dredged muck, old computers, municipal garbage, cornstalks, paper-pulp effluent, infectious medical waste, oil-refinery residues, even biological weapons such as anthrax spores.

      This info was posted to slashdot a few months ago.

  • Not likely soon (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deman1985 ( 684265 ) <dedwards AT kappastone DOT com> on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:19PM (#6512759) Homepage
    I think it's rather unlikely for this to happen in the US anytime soon. The time it takes to disassemble electronics properly to separate them out into the varying material types would make the process very expensive, and seeing as how companies are already cutting corners in every way they can, I find it hard to believe they would bother pouring money into device disposal.
    • Countries that are more densely populated really feel the effects of pollution, so people start to actually care about the environment.

      Not caring about it ist just too damm easy and cheap, so both development or adoption of environmental technology are pretty slow in the US.

    • Re:Not likely soon (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Laur ( 673497 )
      I think it's rather unlikely for this to happen in the US anytime soon. The time it takes to disassemble electronics properly to separate them out into the varying material types would make the process very expensive, and seeing as how companies are already cutting corners in every way they can, I find it hard to believe they would bother pouring money into device disposal.

      Well, that's where government regulation comes in. One of the ways a free market fails is the environment. If a good-hearted compa

      • Re:Not likely soon (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Efreet ( 246368 )
        I think half the problem is that it doesn't cost people money to throw away their computers, the government pays to dispose of it all for them. Thus, its not completly free market, and its sort of unfiar to talk about this as some sort of failure of capitalism. Of course, half-assed regulation is often worse than full regulation, and the Japanese solution might very well be a lot better than letting things stand as they are.

    • Actually... already happening (Score:5, Informative)

      by Servo ( 9177 ) <dstringf.tutanota@com> on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:45PM (#6513041) Journal
      Actually, a lot of junkyard/recycler places in the US are starting to figure out they can make big bucks on recycling almost all of the parts from computers and other electronics. It used to be they would extract all of the metals and plastics, which would net them a few cents a unit. Now they can get a few bucks a unit by pulling chips and reselling them on the refurb market.

      They just had a show about junkyards (I think it was Modern Marvels on the History Channel) which talked about this.

      Recycling is actually big money in the US. Most people think we send vast quantities of junk to be dumped overseas, but in actuality a lot of that junk is scrap metal that is sent there to be recycled.

    • Re:Not likely soon (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Khomar ( 529552 )

      From the article:

      Legislation now states that television sets, air-conditioners, washing machines and refrigerators must be between 50% and 60% recyclable.

      It is now the law in Japan to enforce recycling. I doubt the companies would be pursuing this even with the concerns of Japan's small geographic size due to cost, but government legislation is requiring it.

      I'm not usually a fan of legislation like this, but sometimes it is necessary to ensure that businesses do not cause great harm to society or the

    • Re:Not likely soon (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Not trying to rattle your cage:

      There is a very active and lucritive industry in the US at this time in recycling electronic items. It's no different here than in Japan. I have seen several recycling plants in action and it's amazing how quickly items such as whole pc's, monitors, drives, boards, etc... are dismantled. A small air chisel is the tool of choice. Chips are removed from mobo's and placed in huge boxes to be sent to a smelter for gold and similiar precious metal recovery. Mainboards are ground i

    • Where it all ends up without the right fix (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kimbo ( 22190 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @02:28PM (#6513944)
      Unfortunately what they don't tell you is that about 80% of the collected e-waste is shipped to third world countries. See export harm at:
      http://www.svtc.org/cleancc/pubs/technotrash. htm
      Dell uses prison labor to do their recycling. Recycling is usually pulling some parts which have little value and sending the rest overseas and to landfills.
      However, there are systems such as plasma torch processes at ~8000 degrees C that are non-polluting
      (everything is closed cycle) which can recover all the raw chemicals. Japan has these plants for household waste. Unfortunately no venture capitalist in the U.S. will back one (~10M) since they only have good profit returns rather than 10X returns in 2 years. I know, I wrote a business plan for one and found out disinterested they are in plants with just 'good' profit returns. My own university 'venture office' laughed and said come back when I had a biotech or computer idea.

  • 5 word (Score:2, Funny)

    by Mn3m0nic ( 234085 )
    Christmas Shopping Via Dumpster Diving.

    • Re:5 word (Score:5, Informative)

      by Trigun ( 685027 ) <evil AT evilempire DOT ath DOT cx> on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:30PM (#6512879)
      This is really no joke. With the 3 year EOL policies of a lot of companies, there is a lot of equipment which is simply thrown away, not because it is broken, but because it's out of warranty.
      I got a handful of Cisco 2500's after a company upgraded their network. They were useless to the company, as they had depreciated too much and had been EOL'd by cisco.

      I'm just waiting for a couple of Catalyst switched to be made redundant.

    • Re:5 word (Score:5, Funny)

      by KillerHamster ( 645942 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:45PM (#6513043) Homepage
      In a greedy, selfish kind of way, I hope computer recycling doesn't catch on too fast, since I have gotten most of the hardware I have from residential trash piles. It's just starting to get good, too - they're throwing out Pentium II's now, and 10 GB hard drives! After a few years, imagine the size of the Beo..er, never mind.

  • island living (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gokubi ( 413425 ) * on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:21PM (#6512775) Homepage
    When you live on an island, you think about waste more. Japan has been running up against the limits of it's geography for centuries (arable land, timber, etc.) so they are in a better position to tackle these kinds of problems.

    Although when you shop at a 7-11 in Tokyo, and they double bag your overly packaged Pocky, you might not think so.

  • Premium! (Score:2, Funny)

    by ejaw5 ( 570071 )
    For example, TV and monitor tubes are opened with a special tool and separated into leaded and unleaded glass, melted and reused in new displays!

    Hey this display looks like Regular unleaded....she needs premium dude... premium
    • I purposely included the term "unleaded" just to see how long it would take for a joke to be made. Originally I had said non-leaded glass.

  • Ship It (Score:2, Funny)

    by grennis ( 344262 )
    Why dont we just shoot this stuff into space? There are 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Stars Out There [slashdot.org], you can't tell me there is no room for this stuff.

    • That would never work... (Score:4, Funny)

      by m3djack ( 613125 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:47PM (#6513058) Homepage
      The city of New New York [gotfuturama.com] has been garbage free for centuries, mostly because the city got rid of all its garbage in the 21st century by compacting it all into a big ball and firing it into space. The porn movie "The Great Garbage Crisis of NY" [gotfuturama.com] gives the historical details to this.

      But later on when the giant garbage ball was discovered to be on retour course to hit Earth [gotfuturama.com], something had to be done. After a failed attempt by the Planet Express crew to blow up the ball, Philip J Fry came up with the idea of constructing another ball of garbage, and firing it at the one in space in an effort to send it reeling off course. All of New New York did their part to make garbage, and Fry's plan was a success.

      Thanks gotfuturama.com!

  • Just remember kids... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Realistic_Dragon ( 655151 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:24PM (#6512800) Homepage
    Please recycle your electrons responsibly. It's a great shame that our e-landfil sites are filling up with so many bits and bytes that could otherwise be reused.

    If we don't take care to conserve our resources now, in 20 years time there might not be enough free data to allow any new films, music or even slashdot posts, thus crippling society as we know it.

  • I wish we (US) would do something like this... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mysticalfruit ( 533341 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:25PM (#6512815) Homepage Journal
    Along with recycling the waste we're currently creating, I think we should go into a proactive recycling of old waste. Along with reusing the glass and plastic, we should look at using techologies such as <a href="http://www.discover.com/may_03/featoil.html" >TDP </a> (Thermal Depolymerization Process) to better break down the waste.<p>It frustrates me as an American to see what a wasteful society we are. <i>Everything</i> is desposible. I'd be okay with that if everything was being recycled as well. If there was some synthetic ecosystem of waste and reuse, I wouldn't have to feel the massive guilt I do everytime I purchase something that's whole purpose is to be used one and then discarded.

  • I wonder just how many E.T. cartridges are in that "Waste."

  • Good idea? Probably not. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RobinH ( 124750 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:26PM (#6512831) Homepage
    Sounds like a good idea for the U.S., too.

    I don't think that the U.S. has any shortage of landfill space. A Florida company that owns a landfill in Michigan sells the space to Toronto, for crying out loud! Of course, people in Michigan blame the Canadians for that... but whatever.

    In Japan, I imagine that landfill space is at a premium, and recycling this junk makes sense, but I just don't see it being economically feasible in North America.

    When I was in Oklahoma City in 2001 they didn't even have recycling, and I think they had a push going to generate more waste because they were piling it in this landfill near town and it was the highest point for hundreds of miles. It's probably been renamed to Mount Oklahoma by now. :-) Just kidding.

    • Re:Good idea? Probably not. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by el-spectre ( 668104 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:34PM (#6512924) Journal
      It is a little different burying paper/food waste vs. electronics. The paper/food will break down fairly harmlessly, but electronics have all kinds of nasties (arsenic, lead, a bunch of stuff I can't spell) that can easily leach into the water supply.

      Besides, it's expensive getting metals out of the earth (as in mining them). Doesn't it make more sense to save money and recycle them?
      • Besides, it's expensive getting metals out of the earth (as in mining them). Doesn't it make more sense to save money and recycle them?

        If it did, there'd be a recycling station on every corner. So obviously, no, it's still cheaper to mine for "new" metal than to recycle.
      • The paper/food will break down fairly harmlessly

        Food, yes, paper not really. Newspapers in landfills from the WWII era can still be read. Also, food is not really the problem, its all the packaging. Especially, if your like me and get single serving foods all the time.

        Doesn't it make more sense to save money and recycle them?

        If it were cheaper, yes. How long do you think it would take to get 5 tons of, say, copper from a mine vs. getting it from used electronics? I'm no mining expert, but I would

    • Re:Good idea? Probably not. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Abcd1234 ( 188840 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:39PM (#6512980) Homepage
      Wow, this is a brilliant post. "We don't need to recycle 'cuz we still have plenty of room to put our massive amounts of garbage!". Seriously, that has to be the most unbelievably ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I don't *care* if there's lots of room to throw more garbage... it shouldn't go there in the first place. Especially things like circuit boards, etc, which contain many toxic chemicals (eg, lead, mercury, etc). Do *you* want this stuff seeping into your water table in 50 or a 100 years when the landfill lining breaks down (something which has happened at other sites already)?

    • but I just don't see it being economically feasible in North America.

      While true, I don't think that it's still not a good idea. We, as a country, are continually paying for short-sighted mistakes made in the past. It's like kids with credit cards. It seems like a good idea to buy everything you want now, as 1.9% interest for a year, and credit card companies are practically dumping their cards on you. But ten years down the road, when you're working overtime just to pay your minimum payments, it do

    • Re:Good idea? Probably not. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Qzukk ( 229616 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:01PM (#6513171) Journal
      I just don't see it being economically feasible in North America.

      Thats what the government is for. When the raw, slimy greed starts to ooze out of capitalism and corrode the "American Way of Life(tm)", the government should step in and get people's and companies' acts cleaned up.

      The government should say "Look, we know its going to cost you, and we know you're going to pass the cost onto the consumer, but you better start a recycling program, and stick to it." They've done the same to stop child labor, to enforce minimum wages, to increase air quality, and so on.

      Of course, it doesn't work that way since our government sank into the slimepits, but thats another story. Its clear whose side the current government is on, what with the abolishing of overtime and (perceived?) failures in the punishment of enron and microsoft.

      On the other hand, I know that several manufacturers have in fact begun recycling programs. Such as Dell [dell.com], HP/Compaq [hp.com], and even Gateway [gateway.com] which was the hardest to turn up.
      • The ignorance of inviromental issues that characterised corporat executives, is pretty much a thing of the past. Today, many corporations are driven by people that realise that their children will be living in the world they effect. I worked for a semiconducter-manufacturer as it attempted to get a handle on controling its impact on the enviroment. This was well befor any US federal requirements. This company worked with governmental agencies to help draft enviromental policy. Its activities were used as a

  • I don't think the US will think it useful (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bas_Wijnen ( 523957 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:26PM (#6512834)

    Perhaps it is a good idea for the US from an environmental point of view, but I don't think it will be done. Why not? Because it costs money. Land is money, how much it is depends on how much there is available. In the US there is more than enough land, so it is not worth much. In Japan on the other hand, land is very scarse and thus worth a lot. If the japanese can make sure they need less waste dumps this way, then they will do it. The US doesn't care about waste dumps. They'll just build their houses/industries/... somewhere else.

  • when there's plenty of landfill space? Japan doesn't have all the free space we do, which is why they tend to be a bit better at these sort of things.

  • Electronics Recycling in the US (Score:5, Informative)

    by dprice ( 74762 ) <daprice@pRABBITobox.com minus herbivore> on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:29PM (#6512868) Homepage
    There's a company that I just recently found out about called Resource Concepts [resourcecon.com] in Texas. Their whole business is refurbishing, remarketing, and recycling electronics. Their website has all the details. Looks like they even deal with individuals, not just big corporations.

  • Market Driven (Score:2, Insightful)

    by afreniere ( 611999 ) *
    <rant>AFAICT, this is a perfect example of market-driven recycling - the way it should and will happen ultimately. Forcing it too soon, as the activists would have us do in the US, is even more of a waste than the trash was in the first place. When we run out of supply, then the market will find ways to recycle. As long as we have lots of places to put our trash and lots of cheap ways to get new stuff, then we won't recycle. Moral of the story is that you just let the market figure it out. Doesn'
    • AFAICT, this is a perfect example of market-driven recycling - the way it should and will happen ultimately. ...

      Just that there's no need for government mandated recycling

      Ummm... where'd you get that idea?

      From the article:

      The Matsushita Eco-Technology Center, (Metec), came into being after the Japanese Government passed tough recycling measures that came into effect in 2001.

      I really like the "free-market forces will ultimately conspire to force companies to recycle" idea, and I'm sure they will --

  • IBM has a recycling program for $30 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Rescate ( 688702 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:32PM (#6512893)
    I remember IBM offering something like this for IBM or non-IBM machines, and I found a link:

    IBM PC Recycling Service for $29.99 [ibm.com]

    Here's the link in their store:
    IBM PC Recycle / Recycling Service [ibm.com]

    From an old press release [ibm.com], it looks like they are sending the machines to Envirocycle [enviroinc.com], an electronic recycler--maybe it is possible to send stuff to them directly, but I didn't see anything like that on their site.

  • Profit (Score:2, Interesting)

    by panxerox ( 575545 ) *
    If it was profitable we already would be.
    • Yes, if by profit you mean "short term monitary gain". 'course, that's the only kind of profit corporations focus on, so it's no surprise they don't consider recycling a priority. This is, of course, in constrast to "long term monitary and societal gain", as a result of reduced resource consumption, reduced health and environmental impacts, etc, etc.

  • Not until we are the size of japan (Score:5, Insightful)

    by newt_sd ( 443682 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:33PM (#6512899) Homepage
    We won't recycle unless
    1. Its very profitable
    2. We are having such a land issue that it mandates recycling.
    3. Its legislated

    This should be clear by some of the eastern states railroading their garbage out west.
    Don't get me wrong I love the idea of recycling and should be doing more of it myself but just don't think I will see a big push for it till one of those things happens

  • Computer Recycling event at Georgia Tech (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:33PM (#6512904) Homepage Journal
    A computer equipment recycling event was held at Georgia Tech a couple of weeks back...in partnership with Dell. I went and donated an antique graphics card I had, but they were looking for larger donations, from local organizations.

    The link is here [gatech.edu]

    A snippet:
    The Georgia Institute of Technology in partnership with Dell Computer Corporation of Round Rock, Texas is pleased to announce a one-day computer equipment-recycling event in Atlanta. The event will be held at the Alexander Memorial Coliseum parking lot on the Georgia Tech campus on Saturday, July 12, 2003 from 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM. The Coliseum is located on 10th Street off the I-75/85 Connector in downtown Atlanta. Participants are asked to enter the Coliseum via Fowler and 8th Street. The general public is encouraged to bring any brand of old computer-related equipment--computers, computer monitors, keyboards, mice, printers or other peripherals to the site for collection and recycling by Dell.

    • Talk about an utter lack of advertising. My brother-in-law and I found out about this... the day after. They certainly didn't put out much notice on this event.

      I have 2 dead PCs, a dead monitor, and a dead laserjet that I need to be rid of. As well as a variety of components (mice, SCSI drives, SCSI cards, modems, motherboards, CPUs, etc) that are in operable condition. I've been looking into recycling options for the computers, and I'm trying to find someplace that will accept the components as a donation

  • E-Waste? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Zardoz44 ( 687730 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:34PM (#6512922) Homepage
    EWhy edoes eeverything eneed ean ein efront eof eit ewhen eit ehas esomething eto edo ewith ethe einternet eor ecomputers e?

    Is food waste f-waste? Email is fine, ebusiness was tolerable. Give it up. It's old.

  • the correct philosophy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 514x0r ( 691137 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:35PM (#6512936)
    "Recycling is only one part of a product's lifecycle"
    this is the way it should be seen. too often american manufacturers see the end of the lifecycle as the minute it leaves the factory doors. the only thought given to what happens when the consumer is finished is in terms of when they will buy the replacement.
    • Unfortunately I can't get my coworkers to recycle plastic, paper or cans when the company provides containers in every cube for paper and the kitchens have plastic/glass and aluminum recycling. I have begged, pleaded, tried to make an economic case and an environmental one. The only thing that seems fairly successful is my battery recycling effort, but for the most part people refuse to reuse.

      I believe that recycling is a lot like littering. Until it becomes a misdemeanor to throw away recyclable materials

  • Why the hell...? (Score:3, Funny)

    by tevenson ( 625386 ) <tevenson.gmail@com> on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:35PM (#6512939) Homepage
    Why would we do this. We've got MONTANA to fill up.
    • I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle."
  • That's easy!

    rm -rf *

  • General Electric has been doing this for years (Score:5, Interesting)

    by djh101010 ( 656795 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:44PM (#6513034) Homepage Journal
    GE Medical systems has a salvage operation, where they take field returns of computers, circuit boards, monitors, x-ray tubes, and traded-in equipment. They test items that have a demand, and resell them if possible, and then the rest goes into the process.

    There is a group of people who snip the gold contact fingers off of circuit boards - the gold contacts go to one process, the boards go off to China for reuse of the components (so, that cheap Chinese toy you buy, might have 15 year old resisters that used to be in an Xray machine!). The CRTs are, as the article mentioned, separated for leaded vs. unleaded glass; chassis are stripped, steel & aluminum go off into their own recycling places.

    Some of the more intersting stuff is the tungsten rotors from the Xray tubes - some seriously heavy stuff, and the mu-metal from inside of some monitors and image intensifiers. Some of the scrap they come up with is painfully expensive stuff, some of it is toxic, and all of it would end up in a dump somewhere if they weren't doing it.

    Of course, GE being GE, they're not doing this just because it's a good thing to do, but I understand that they actually turn a profit at all of this. I'm guessing other GE businesses do it to, and I'd be surprised if there aren't dozens or hundreds of places in the US doing it already. If there aren't, maybe it'd be a good thing to look into.

  • Recycle is the third R... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by addie ( 470476 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:45PM (#6513037)
    This has been hammered down our throats since we were in grade school, but we often forget that Reduce and Reuse come first. Reduction isn't really an option these days, as everyone "needs" the fastest machine, and for most people scared of upgrades and custom-built systems, that means a brand new computer.

    Instead of throwing them in landfills, spending a lot of money to recycle them, or leaving them to be smashed to bits by 10 year old Chinese girls trying to earn 15 cents for a teeny bit of copper, why can't we just set up an effective reuse program?

    You can't tell me that there aren't millions of people all over the world who could make effective use of a 486 with a dot-matrix printer and open-source software, let alone the number of Pentium I & II's that are being abandoned left and right by the upper middle class in America.

    It would cost less to ship them overseas than pick them apart, and actually HELP people.

    Reduce, Reuse, THEN Recycle.
    • Agreed... Goodwill [goodwill.org] has computer centers set up for re-use in a lot of cities in the US. I've gone to the one in Austin [austingoodwill.org] when I needed cheap hardware, and it also helps create jobs and get people who need training trained.
    • value of 468: 20 bucks.
      cost of shipping overseas: 50+ bucks
      cost of organizing all this: 20 bucks a mcahine
      cost to refurbish, repair, wipe etcetra: 30 bucks a machine

      Wild guesses, but you get teh meaning.
    • You can't tell me that there aren't millions of people all over the world who could make effective use of...the number of Pentium I & II's that are being abandoned left and right by the upper middle class in America.

      Why go overseas? Try donating them to your local school, church, or other non-profit organization, who would much rather have your five-year-old machine for free than a new Dell at any price.
    • Interesting argument, but I think a lot of computers are already reused. Both of my grandparents have recieved hand-me-down systems, as well as several other family members. Also, the company I work for sells old systems at 25$ to employees. We're talking like p2-350 range, certainly still usable. These systems are usually reserved within 15 minutes of the notices being emailed around (~700-800 person company, and they sell off boxes as they get replaced).

      Granted, my experiences could be extraordinary, but
  • A government mandate requring manufacturers to recycle 50% of the parts of new televions will encourage manufacturers to continue making older, better understood, CRT based TVs.

    New TVs based on LCD technology use much less than 1/2 the raw materials, but those components probably aren't as frequently recycled.

    Therefore, consumers don't get the technology that they prefer, and more waste is generated. Thanks, government!

    The answer: Charge a fee based on how nasty the stuff is to dispose of properly. Tho

  • Cash redemsion value (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jack Schitt ( 649756 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:48PM (#6513069)
    Here in California, we have a tax on many recyclable products (soda cans and bottles). The tax is called CRV and is usually something small, like $0.14. They refund the tax when you recycle the bottle or can. I think they should have a CRV for electronic components. That way, you might have more incentive to recycle them.
  • No Disassemble! Johnny Five Alive!

  • Electronics need to be designed for recycling (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alchemist68 ( 550641 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:52PM (#6513098)
    Electronics need to be designed for recycling. I'm sure that when a chip manufacturer is designing a new chip, recycling isn't even a consideration in the design. There are several elements that are ever increasing in the American economy faster than elsewhere in the world: energy prices, property taxes, health care expenses, living expenses, and entertainment. We are headed for the "Artificial Intelligence" future where we have to be mindful of the total cost of manufacturing something and looking at the value we get from that product. Is "X" product really that useful for society? How will it affect the environment (land fill or otherwise) after its usefulness is gone? Are there other uses for the material in that product? Are those materials easily disassembled or dismantled into component parts? This type of thinking will eventually persist in the USA one day, but not anytime in the near future. Let's face it, human existence is starting to get expensive. Why the hell do you think all those manufacturing and white collar computer science and science (chemistry, biology, etc...) jobs are moving to overseas markets?

  • Two Problems (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Thunderstruck ( 210399 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @12:53PM (#6513113)
    The discussion thusfar seems to have identified two major issues (and one minor one) that must be overcome before such a program could exist in the United States.

    1. Land - We've got a lot of it over here, but the bottleneck to starting something like this is probably not so much a question of whether or not its easier to make landfills. The question is one of transport. How can any recycling operation afford to ship 22 pounds (10 kg) of monitor from an office in Lemmon, SD, once every 6 months, and still hope to turn a profit? Japan has the "advantage" of being compact. We don't.

    2. Law - Landfills are cheap & easy. Recycling is less profitable. Will we be trying to implement this state by state? Does the federal government have any authority to mandate such a disposal regime under the interstate commerce power?

    3. Will the RIAA object to anyone recycling a DRM enabled device under the DMCA?

  • good idea, not gonna happen in US (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fermion ( 181285 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:03PM (#6513183) Homepage Journal
    This is a good idea for the US.

    First, there is a shortage of landfill space for certain communities. The communities selling landfill space are merely reducing the landfill space for future generations.

    Second, some things should not be land-filled because they are toxic to humans. It is pretty much impossible to design a landfill that will be safe for a significant amount of time. Most rational communities have recycling programs set up so these waste do not end up in the landfill. These are often funded out of the public purse.

    The reason recycling efforts, and clean manufacturing efforts, tend not to work in the US is because commercial interests are allowed to externalize disposal costs to the government and future generations, and therefore not make the cost of clean up part of their business plan. Therefore, dirty operations are often artificially more profitable than clean operations.

    The problem, as we seem, comes later when the mess has to be cleaned up and a new generation is asked to pay. We see this now with the superfund cleanup status of a number of defunct commercial entities.

  • Why not!?! That big ditch needs to be filled sometime, and what better purpose than our IT waste! ;P
  • They should've gone with the radioactive approach and have Godzilla take care of it all in one breath.
  • Where I live, we used to have recycle bins that we sit out next to the curb on trash day. I usually had a full bin of glass containers, pop cans, and plastic items every week. Then one day, the city stopped doing that. So now I just toss all that stuff in the trash, because I am surly not going to take a 15 minute drive to the recycle place once a week.

    Let's face it. We're too lazy to go out of our way to recycle our trash, and rightfully so, a lot of us have better things to do. So make it easy to recycle and I'm all over that. Make it difficult, and nobody will recycle. Pretty simple.

    T

  • Plastic doesn't truly recycle well (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Leomania ( 137289 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:25PM (#6513379) Homepage
    Most plastic (would say "all" but I'm not 100% sure 'bout that) doesn't recycle all that well. Something breaks down in the process such that the resulting plastic isn't as good as that newly produced. So most plastic ends up being reused in ways such as insulating filler for pillows and jackets. I know plastic soda bottles are used for that purpose; can computer plastics be used in a similar manner?

    Anyway, until this is resolved, plastic will not be recycled as much as we'd all like. I for one hope that someone finds a way to prevent the degradation.

    - Leo

  • Disposable Tech & Laziness + Big Macs (Score:4, Insightful)

    by felonious ( 636719 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:36PM (#6513501) Journal
    We are a society of extremely wasteful people. Just look at the way products are packaged these days with all sorts of non-biodegradable plastics with infused chemicals. My parents just bought a set of the gardening gloves but they were packaged in a horizontal manner that consisted of dense plastics. They used to tie gloves in a bundle now they incase them in plastics for loss prevention.

    I would have to say a lot of products these days are packaged in a way that's best to reduce theft. As far as technology goes I doubt much thought goes into designing a pc that can best be recycled unless it's already running windows.

    I think compartmentalizing the hazardous material parts on any device in it's design would be of some service. That way if you chose not to sell your pc or whatever else you could just seperate the parts and drop them off at a technology device recycling center with a bin for each type of part. We need some of those as I have yet to see one...although they might have them somewhere.

    So what I'm saying is in terms of pc's they don't have to design them to be biodegradable because that won't happen. Compartmentalize in an intelligent manner that is best suited for easily recycling the parts because there are a lot of lazy people out there who'd rather throw it away than deal with it.

    Hopefully when the disposable dvd's come out they have recycling centers for those and they should be funded by the companies who developed the technology. Those who develop wasteful practices and methods in the days of trying to reduce the problem should be responsible for collecting and recycling their wasteful products.

    In all actuality I just hope that consumers reject that idiotic disposable dvd shit but as I said before laziness could make it a massive success. I bet if they throw in a free Big Mac then that would almost guarantee success...
    • I would have to say a lot of products these days are packaged in a way that's best to reduce theft.

      Actually, when it comes to food and packaged consumer goods, the vast bulk of the packaging's purpose has been determined by the marketers behind the product. Go to the grocery store and look at the aisle with health and beauty aids - for an example, look at the section with toothpaste. See all those castons with shiny metallic-looking surfaces? That metallic surface is usually a polyethylene or polypropy

  • Here in Canada... (Score:4, Informative)

    by happers ( 647249 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:41PM (#6513552)
    ...I like to think we are on headed in the right direction.. see here [carleton.ca] and here [www.cbc.ca] I have frequently visited Bo Brodie's company, Computer Recyclers Inc., an Ottawa company that deals in electronic junk. Brodie's firm takes in about half a million pounds of electronic junk a year. Not only will they take your old junk off your hands but they sell the stuff people get rid of that is still good. Win win if you ask me.

  • DIE DIE! SMASH! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Alizarin Erythrosin ( 457981 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @01:43PM (#6513572)
    For example, TV and monitor tubes are opened with a special tool and separated into leaded and unleaded glass

    I have a special tool for that too... it's called a sledge hammer! (!!!)

  • Pay for disposal when you buy it! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 200_success ( 623160 ) on Wednesday July 23, 2003 @04:32PM (#6515676)

    In Switzerland, you pay an "Anticipated Recyling Tax" on all electric and electronic equipment at the time of purchase, about 5% of the price of the item. I don't believe that you get that money back; it probably goes to subsidize the cost of recycling.

    Considering that all electronics will eventually be disposed of at some time, it's smarter to collect the fee up front. It reminds the consumer of the eventual environmental impact that the item will have by factoring it into the price. Collecting the fee at the time of the sale is also more logistically workable than trying to collect it when the item is being thrown away.

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