Too Much Tech Diminishes Work Relationships? 195
Lansdowne writes "The Seattle Times has an article today on Tim Sanders, a Yahoo exec who claims too much technology may be bad for your health. According to Sanders, small groups of engineers who went to completely electronic communication in their workgroups became 'very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people.'"
uhh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:uhh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:uhh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:uhh (Score:5, Insightful)
Further, isolating yourself from people will actually make you are *worse* IT employee or engineer. Why? Because you forget how to put yourself in other people's shoes. By not doing that, you end up designing tools, devices, or software that are counter-intuitive and difficult for people to use. Raise your hand if you've never asked yourself "WHY did they design this gizmo/software this way? It's stupid!"
I'm currently struggling with similar burn-out at work as mentioned in the article. Everyone is so in love with the idea of technology, they've lost sight of whether or not adopting a new technology would actually be beneficial in the longterm. They believe that everything would be "so much better" if it ran on computers, and that's just not the case. I spend hours taking care of servers, networks, software, etc. that I forget why I'm even doing this in the first place and stop caring about the users. After all, I never see any of them.
just my $.02 blue
Re:uhh (Score:2)
That and copious amounts of money and coke.
Everything I need to know... (Score:5, Funny)
I dont need friends (Score:3, Funny)
Isn't that right sweetie?
Re:I dont need friends (Score:2, Funny)
Please go stand by the stairs, so I can protect you from the terrible secret of space.
perhaps thge other way around? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:5, Interesting)
Call me old fashioned, but I still thrive on human interaction regardless of how obsolete it may be these days. Really, given if we all had the money, I'm willing to bet there are more people like me who would get rid of all of their technology and live a more simple, fulfilling life.
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:3, Insightful)
Tech may increase efficiency, but if it makes a person crazy that hurts the bottom line a lot more.
<cliche>If you acquire to much stuff, your stuff ends up owning you. I can fit my most important possessions in two suitcases.</cliche>
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Okay, here's the next one, are you ready? Okay. Bold and italicise the words 'previously used' on paragraph two of question three."
Drives me absolutely batty. I get the impression that he read on the MSN home page ten tips to increase his career and tip #8 was something like, "Call, don't email. A personal touch is always appreciated..."
Bah. Just email it to me and I'll take care of it at my earliest convenience, don't call, interrupt me from what I'm doing, and make me transcribe your directions. Not all of us enjoy being interrupted from our work to take notes.
I really like email. It makes my business a lot easier. I just go down the list, taking care of email after email from clients. When I'm done, I can stretch and do something different. Calls interrupt that natural checklist-like flow by forcing me to break off what I'm doing and take care of their issues first. In email I can even be polite and cordial even when I don't feel like it!
You do use email when it's appropriate, right?
The worst ever is when someone calls AND emails. "Hi, I just sent you an email containing a list of changes!"
(You fucking loser!) "Sure. I'll be looking for that shortly. Thanks!"
(click)
It's a dominance issue. (Score:5, Insightful)
If I am talking and you are writing, I am superior. Think old time boss and secretary. Boss talks, secretary takes dictation.
Dominance games are usually the worst means of communicating anything other than who is dominant.
Suppose a person who has an emotional need
to establish dominance over others also likes tech toys? There are lots of these people. They buy the latest toy just because it is the latest toy. They have an emotional need to have something before other people have it.
But those toys don't give them the dominance feedback that they also need. They play with their toys and the discover there is something missing that the toys aren't providing.
Get therapy. Find out why you want the newest toys. Find out why using them makes you feel "isolated" and "alone".
I'll send email to someone sitting right next to me. But only if I think he's busy on a project and wouldn't like to be interrupted or if I can more clearly express myself in an email (or to cover my ass by having a digital record).
This isn't about technology. This is about people interacting with other people.
E-Mail CYA (Score:2, Informative)
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:2)
I agree that IM is stupid. However, e-mail is better than a phone call, due to it being a running transcript of the conversation. I find it frustrating to work with people who will talk only over the phone, as many decisions get lost to memory with no text to back them up. If phone conversations are then follow-up with person-to-person discussion with a
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:2)
Unfortunately for you and me, human interaction is a necessity, especially in a working environment. In fact, the most successful people in the world KNOW this...
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:2)
I (and my friends) use technology a lot to arrange physical meetings etc. Mobiles, landlines, text messaging (SMS), instant messaging, e-mails and so on. Discussing one night out might cross across all of these mediums in planning etc. Technology is not all bad!!
I'm willing to bet there are more people like me who would get rid of all of their technology and live a more simple, fulfilling life.
Hell yeah. Half the people are k
Re:Try paper (Score:2)
Any time someone walks into my office with something they've obviously just printed out (frequently a 3 word error message) the first thing out of my mouth is "Could you email that to me?"
If it's on paper, I can't manipulate it, and in any case, I'll lose it.
Re:Try paper (Score:2)
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:5, Insightful)
It could be maybe that IT allows people who may not be comfortable talking face to face due to lack of social interaction to communicate with other people more easily.
Re:perhaps the other way around? (Score:2, Informative)
Or then again perhaps it[IT] allows people who may not be comfortable talking face to face the opportunity to avoid face to face contact precisely when it is most needed.
I would find it very easy in my job to communicate entirely by email and IM, but I've found that a kind of "chinese whisper" effect takes hold and more uncertainty is introduced than would be the case in a face to face conversation. So I force myself to get out of my chair. Apparently there are good ergonomic side-effects to this too...
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm inclined to agree, but I also see the technology as exacerbating the problem. From the article:
This is where I see the downward spiral come into play. The obscured moral of the story is that people need to realize the most important under-utilized feature that technology has to offer is the off button.
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:3, Interesting)
In my job, I can either go in to my (fairly social) office, or work at home (shuttered away with just a computer), pretty much at my option. At the office, people walked in every 5 minutes with some question or other. I couldn't get anything done. So I took to working from home almost all the time, and people would e-mail me questions (but not with nearly the frequenc
Re:perhaps thge other way around? (Score:2)
After coming out of an abusive childhood I went to the one thing in life that had never hurt me, that I had already known from before - computers. It was an escape for me - crissakes, still is. I haven't been out of the house for days, and I live alone. Most of my talk with other people is on IRC.
-uso.
As an engineering student... (Score:3, Interesting)
But hey, what do I know, I'm just a very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant Engineering student.
totally agree. (Score:2)
Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:2)
I was out of work for a few months. I still went out to lunch with my former co-workers every now and again, or saw my friends on weekends, but for most of the day I was alone. Believe it or not, I started to lose the ability to talk. (Which really sucks during job interviews.)
Then after a few months I got a job where I just sat in a cube and coded all day. I was extremely productive but I counted
Re:Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:2)
What's the difference?
Re:Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:2)
Re:Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:2)
You need to get out more. All of the best experiences in my life involve my friends and family (and some strangers ;-), and these are life enhancing. There is a limit to how much fun you can have on your own (not so much now with technology), and if you become a recluse from society, then I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on some great times.
Each to their own thou
Re:Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:2)
Re:Flawed experiment (and conclusion!) (Score:2)
Oh, please. Humans, just like the rest of the great apes, are social animals. Face-to-face communication isn't some weird drug; it's been part of our evolution for millions of years. Like sunlight, exercise, or vitamin C, we can do without social relatio
Yeah, but.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yeah, but.... (Score:2)
No match for "ROBOTBRIDES.COM".
calum@gentoo calum $
Get it quick!
Attitude (Score:5, Funny)
It has started to carry into my regular life: people are interruptions not whatever they used to be...
And here I am posting to slash.
Re:Attitude (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe your attitude is improving.
Re:Attitude (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's face it. Technology lets us be freer with our communication. Nothing lets us lie so much as a chat-room. Nothing lets us say what we feel to people across the country or around the world with as little fear of recrimination as IRC. The anti-social behavior could be creeping in when these same people realize that have to cover what has become their "normal" conversation with the pureed bullshit that passes for civil conversation these days.
No, I'm not saying that we
Re:Attitude (Score:2)
Does it really matter? (Score:2, Insightful)
Using instant messaging also a more convenient and faster way to interact, although it will never measure up to a real
Re:Does it really matter? (Score:2)
I would like (Score:4, Funny)
It's wrong because: (Score:2)
*For the peanut gallery, I'm getting married next months...*
Re:It's wrong because: (Score:2)
Limits... (Score:5, Interesting)
This quote from the article makes me wonder whether we're reading too much into it. This is someone who replaced face to face communication with his employees. That's not a problem with technology: that's him being irrespsonsible.
I think (hope) that we all know there's a time and place for technology. Things like employee appraisals and agreeing big pieces of work should really be done face to face.
The question that we thought was being answered was whether having more technological gadgets would create problems for people in themselves?
I'm in the camp who believe that technology actually improves relationships when used appropriately, rather than damages him.
Friends overseas? It's a shame they're not here, but I can use ICQ to keep in touch with them.
Feel like a drink? I can call around my friends to see who's around.
Really want the obnoxious sex-mad guy to come? Just snap a photo/video of the cute girl next to you and he'll be along in a jiffy.
People can do more, in less time, with more people.
Everyone wins. Especially the communications companies.
Re:Limits... (Score:5, Funny)
FOOL!! Don't you realize that it is impossible for him to be responsible for his own actions?! No one can exert any control over their own lives! We all dance to the music played by forces beyond our control! Have you already forgotten that fast food makes people fat by forcing them to overeat? Personal responsibility is a myth perpetuated by those who want to limit your personal litigation, er, freedom!
My life is controlled by the lecture circuit. (Score:2)
By the way, I'm also giving a lecture about it.
Next year, I'll be giving a lecture about the new book I wrote about being on the lecture circuit promoting the last book I wrote and how painful the lecture circuit was.
The book after that will be about how I found myself addicted to the lecture circuit despite the pain.
NEDS?! Shrinks need jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
Adults need to be responsible for their lives. Yeah, sounds obvious but apparently people are still lost on this point.
Everything has a time and a place. Keep everything in its time and place and keeping your sanity is easy. Get sunshine. Go to the beach. If that's not possible, try a municipal pool.
Life isn't complicated. People in this article want to make it complicated because at some point along the way, they'll profit.
If you stay up until sunrise, down gallons of caffeine and live in chat rooms then that's your decision. The consequences might be depression and isolation. Those who don't like it need to change the variables in their life program.
Re:NEDS?! Shrinks need jobs (Score:2)
If a person has to depend on chat rooms and instant messengers for relationships, there was probably something wrong already before this. They are not depressed because they drink a lot of coffee and live in chat rooms. They live in chat rooms, because they are depressed if they don't. Feeling depressed and isolated? IRC will help you. Can't handle your real life anymore? There's always an unreal one waiting
All you need is love (Score:2)
My 2 pennies (Score:3, Funny)
depressed - maybe, especially if they're feeling lonely
negative - Windows desktops will do that to you, they've done it to me
anti-social - it helps us be lazy and stay within our small team
brilliant - makes them brilliant? I doubt that. You're either brilliant or you're not. Modes of communication can't change that.
Wrong conclusion! (Score:2, Funny)
Proof that contact with the masses dumbs you down. ^_^
Balance (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Balance (Score:2, Interesting)
I moved out of my old job partly because two of the people I worked with are friends from wayback. In my new job, which I probably got because two of the three people on the management people development commitee are my friends (grin), my informal, actual, job function is to talk to other
It's not true (Score:2, Funny)
Balance (Score:2, Insightful)
Focusing your life around *anything* for long periods of time such that you exclude everything that used to keep you healthy and happy is not going to be good for you.
Bushism required (Score:3, Funny)
Dubya: "Those techies aren't lonely, they just have no one to talk to, and speak with."
Ignorance is bliss.. (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words... (Score:2)
In other words, exactly what companies seem to want these days.
My take on it (Score:2)
According to Sanders, small groups of engineers who went to completely electronic communication in their workgroups became 'very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people.'
Bah! Humbug...
E
In a related story.... (Score:2)
They'll be releasing a study soon about how much happier people are who spend their time doing things they like.
Near-Miss (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, when I started my career in IT, I was the happy helpful SysAdmin. I would cheerfully respond to request after request because I loved helping my fellow employees have a positive computing experience.
I never understood why people always thought SysAdmins were grumpy and belligerent.
However, now after a decade of thankless shit-catching, I am that grumpy and belligerent SysAdmin who believes that users are a fucking plague of idiots set loose in Biblical proportions upon my otherwise Utopian computer networks.
Comments such as "your message titled 'Virus Warning - Happy New Year' had the word 'Virus' in it, so I deleted it to be safe, but then I opened the next one that had an attachment called 'Happy New Year'. Now my computer doesn't work right..." (honest-to-God true story) have made me tend to side with the machines while watching such movies as "Terminator" and "Matrix", and to create tools named for the Borg which enforce draconian administration of my networks.
Are we anti-social because of the machines, or because people are morons?
Re:Near-Miss (Score:2)
You should realize this, get over it, face reality, and adjust to it. After all, that's the most logical thing to do. If you can't adjust to your environment, then look within, not out for the problem.
Re:Near-Miss (Score:2, Funny)
The one certainty is this: The CEO's secretary is going to be the biggest pain in your ass, support-wise.
Re:Near-Miss (Score:2)
Reminds me of Maltilda... when Miss Trunchball said that kids were a plague on a school, and that school would be much nicer without them
I think it's a control issue (Score:2)
I notice that I feel at ease working with comptuers because I understand it's behavior. I can get it to do what I want when I want it, and yeah, sometimes it crashes or does things I can't control / predict, but I can always reboot and start from scratch. It's a very safe, predictable environment once you spend a lot of time there.
And I do think if you spend a lot of time in this environment, people begin to seem comparatively, irrational, hard to predict, hard to control, and no, you can't just hit the
brilliant! (Score:4, Funny)
Wow, I can become brilliant.
Re:brilliant! (Score:2)
Well that's not very negative of you, is it now?
Correlation != Cause and Effect (Score:5, Informative)
As any beginning psychology student can (should) tell you is that a correlation does not indicate a cause and effect. So, from this, we see that unhappy, depressed, anti-social geniuses use a lot of technology. We have a strong positive correlation between technology and depressed geniuses. It could be that technology causes it, or it could be that depressed geniuses like technology, or it could just be a coincidence.
In order figure out which it is, experiments need to be performed. Observation alone cannot figure this out.
Nothing Changes (Score:5, Interesting)
For example, about 150 years ago, someone said how young women should not ride bicycles because it made them less attractive, had bad effects on their health & fertility and gave them grumpy looking faces.
More recently, it was forecast that telephones would cause people to loose touch with their friends and family. ffs Many people here only contact their family on the phone.
Up to the present, they said that children who played with their PC and consoles would be less able and mentally active than children who didn't. Then they realised that the kids who "didn't" were all on the couch watching TV. Any kid who was online or playing games was actually using their brain.
Conclusion?
People have been moaning about new ideas, music and technology for a very long time. I'm sure Aristotle had something to say on the matter and if his statement was put into a modern paper, nobody would notice. (if it was translated first!)
It's all downhill from here... (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriouslly if it weren't for my son I would just as well spend my whole life online. I'm tired of interfacing with mundane's. The only people I can stand are other techies.
Re:It's all downhill from here... (Score:2)
I've noticed some technical people have started (usually fondly) calling their users muggles. Anybody else seen this?
Odd (Score:5, Funny)
Lousy Jobs - Not Computers, make you Depressed (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's true. If you spend several hours at a computer doing menial work that you hate, overseen by a boss you hate (and vice-versa) then you'll most likely become bitter, anxiety ridden and depressed.
On the other hand, I spend several hours a day sitting at a computer doing a job that I love and I'm not the least bit depressed. In fact, I look forward to going to work every day.
People had lousy jobs that sucked and made them depressed long before computers were invented. Let's quit blaming computers for all of society's ills.
Working alone makes you lonely, not computers (Score:5, Insightful)
I work at the university, couple of hours per day at a computer. Still, the co-workes and I have lunch together, take the time off to grab a coffee, or just wander over into the room next door to have a chat.
So if you feel lonely/depressed, try to work with a group of people (you like - that, of course, is a prerequisite), close to them, maybe in the same room.
And... maybe... don't reload the Slashdot page every minute! (SCNR)
This sounds great! (Score:3, Funny)
I'm already lonely, depressed, negative, and anti-social, but now i can become brilliant too! Sign me up!
How to lose your job in 10 days (Score:2)
Howard Dean for President [deanforamerica.com] "
I must be one of a few people who realized that last line is your sig, and only because we've seen it before. Dude, you covered the "steps you need to lose your job" pretty well:
1) Get job as intern for presidential candidate
2) Insult top boss in front of thousands
3) ???
4) Profit (?)
I'm just kidding around man... Everybody knows slashdot's readership
Re:This sounds great! (Score:2)
I don't know of any other kind of 'brilliant people'. No guarantees, but you've got what it takes!
Then again, one problem with being 'very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social,' is that you'll probably never know if you are brilliant...
Re:This sounds great! (Score:2)
Then again, one problem with being 'very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social,' is that you'll probably never know if you are brilliant...
You will probably convince yourself that you are brilliant.
JP
From Personal Experience (Score:5, Interesting)
(Keep in mind this is based on personal experiences)
- Many people do not own a landline phone unless they have ADSL.
- Many people do not use email anymore due to spam.
- Many people do not use IMs as they are far too many in number, and again have the spam issue.
This means they are often unavailable to a real-time communications, potentially emergency communications.
Some people take it to extremes, avoiding people by not using the methods they know their friends or family use, or by leaving everything to voicemail/email/IMs and simply ignoring messages. It's amazingly easy to ignore people when you have caller ID on your phones too.
Of those who do stay connected (often via every means possible), here are some behaviors I've noticed:
- Many people are getting obsessive about checking email, how much they're getting, and how they can get more without subscribing to mailing lists.
- Talking on the cellphone during obviously inappropriate and/or plain dangerous activities.
- Leaving their status as 'online' on all IMs to maybe increase the chance somebody wants to talk.
- Gotta have a landline, cellphone, PDA, MP3-man, [insert nifty new devices here].
I think more than anything, the current state of technology and communication is forcing the shy folks into hiding, and giving an amazing opportunity for all the people (worthy or not) of all that extra exposure to expose whatever it is they want to.
You're going to get morons. You're going to get brilliant individuals. And their profession really doesn't matter any more than it used to, the pace of life and the introduction of technology is simply accelerating people's reactions too.
The real problem (Score:3, Insightful)
This may seem obvious, but think about it. If you work remotely, is it that working remotely sucks or that the one real jerk you have to work with is empowered by IM and email to be even a greater jerk than he would normally be. Even real, genuine idiots and losers have no guts and will rarely treat you horribly to your face. But add some remoteness and the sense of safety that comes with email or IM, and you have a horrible working situation.
Sure, the tech can be isolating if you don't have any sense of balance. But what makes it intolerable and a real source of stress are these jerks. Yes, they would still be a jackass in person, but deep down you know they wouldn't have the guts to say what they are saying in email to your face.
Is it technology's fault? No. These people are jerks no matter what--they just use the technology that the rest of us enjoy to be even greater jerks. They are the genuine trolls and the losers who infest USENET--except they act this way in real life. They are everywhere you go--they just are more bold when they can hide behind a computer.
Pink Floyd Said it Well (Score:4, Insightful)
What shall we use...To fill...the empty... spaces...Where...we used...to talk?
For some it's drugs, for others booze....and yet for others gadgets. They're always there for you and they never question you.
Rather then develop any sort of lasting personal relationships, a person can just continuely obsess about that new gadget you want. Once i get that new wireless phone/pda, I'll finally be cool; I'll finally be happy.
-Chris
I'll keep the brilliant the rest get eaten by: (Score:2)
http://www.sluggy.c
http://www.schlockmercenary.com
http://www.v
http://www.comics.com/comics/rosei
For when you OD on the above.
http://jack.keenspace.com/
zerg (Score:2)
Close but no cigar (Score:2)
The solution... (Score:2)
If you're gonna be a geek, you might as well have fun doing it. Alex Zavatone : ]
This does not make sense.. (Score:2, Insightful)
People have problems with technology because they dont learn how to use it or what to use it for before using it. For example on getting a cellphone lots of people try to "overuse" them atleast during the initial period b
Fair price for brilliance (Score:2)
But what caused what? (Score:2)
What? (Score:2, Funny)
very lonely, depressed . . . (Score:2)
very lonely, depressed, negative, anti-social, brilliant people.
So this will make me brilliant? Sign me up!
Machines don't bite (Score:2)
People easily cause much more grief than technology does, and I think a large part of the geek's preference for machines is a desire to avoid that kind of shit.
Personally I'm happy to spend time with people and accept the bad with the good, and I prefer an evening in a cafe to an evening with Slashdot. But it's not always easy. An
Re:Depression.. (Score:2)
They don't tell you this before you spend 7 minutes taking the test.
Re:Depression.. (Score:2)
Re:They seem to be missing some important.... (Score:2)
Re:/. in a nutshell (Score:2, Funny)
Then why isn't it true for me? (Score:2)
Why is it that I seem to be able to also maintain an extremely active social life and take great pleasure in all kinds of offline activity? Is this balance so hard for the average person to reach? Is it one or the other for everyone else? That just seems an absurd proposition. I can't believe
Re:Then why isn't it true for me? (Score:2, Interesting)
I think different people have markedly different experiences. My guess is that surrounding oneself with technology (or any other collection of inanimate objects) can exacerbate an already existing condition in people.
Sit down and let me tell you a tale. I was sexually abused as a kid, so was at high risk for depression (abuse can be nasty) and insulating myself from the world (I learned, mistakenly, that the world was too dangerous). Once I discovered computers, I found an ideal way to escape from the worl
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)