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Technology Hardware

Japan Introduces Consumer-Paid Computer Recycling 348

Posted by simoniker from the neat-and-tidy dept.
Azuma writes "According to the Japan Times, starting Wednesday, new Japanese legislation takes effect that compels personal computer manufacturers to collect used PCs from households and recycle their parts, with consumers footing the bill, which will total anywhere from 3,000 yen ($28) to 4,000 yen ($37). So from today onwards, if you buy a new computer in Japan, your new computer should have a new logo besides commercial ones such as Intel Inside... 'Recycling Fee Prepaid'."
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Japan Introduces Consumer-Paid Computer Recycling More

Japan Introduces Consumer-Paid Computer Recycling

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  • Pfft. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @09:45PM (#7110351)
    That's all? I wish the US would do the same. $27 is not that much, and it really does help out the enviorment.

    Sometimes, I wish we all were Japanese! :)

    • Re:Pfft. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by aardvarkjoe ( 156801 )
      Just out of curiosity, how do you handle people who build their own system? Do you add a recycling surcharge onto each component? Attach the $37 fee to every new CPU? Require that they take care of paying the charge themselves? Or do you just assume that the number of people building their own is small enough that it doesn't matter?
      • yep, you assume it's small enough that it doesn't matter.

        besides.. those people are more probable to hold on to those components and use them for much longer(or have some friend who wants to hold on to them till doomsday.)

    • Been there, done that (Score:2, Informative)

      by Woefdram ( 143784 )
      That's something we've had for years in the Netherlands now. It's called the verwijderingsbijdrage, which would translate to English as "removal fee". But then again, our government taxes everything it can -- and the rest...

  • send the working used computers to africa and asia (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stroustrup ( 712004 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @09:48PM (#7110374) Journal
    with linux installed ofcourse. That way, both poor countries and linux will grow more and more powerful

  • good move (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lingqi ( 577227 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @09:50PM (#7110388) Journal
    just have to see how it works out.

    actually NHK had a lil program this morning (morning in JP) showing one of the recycling plants and how they recycle - basically smash everything with little hammers and separate (to a degree) the metal from the plastic from the PCB from the rubber sheets (keyboard) etc.

    they also smash the ICs for some reason, probably because when it melts in the pot the molten silicon would trickle through (pure and absolute speculation)...

    This creates jobs (though mundane), and helps with waste - japan is not known for having a lot of area for landfills; so as long as things get recycled (instead of, say, shipped to china), I am cool with it.

    Though it would change the recycle shops (read: used stuff shops) business model on old computers... maybe it becomes cheaper to sell your old PC to a recycle shop? Would the recycle shops be totally fscked because they have a collection of junk PC sitting around?

    Heck, my company has an array of junk PCs (actually, Pentium II class, which I am amazed that they are tossing out) sitting around. Maybe they will be sitting around a lot longer now that it costs money to dispose... hmm...
    • Heck, my company has an array of junk PCs (actually, Pentium II class, which I am amazed that they are tossing out) sitting around. Maybe they will be sitting around a lot longer now that it costs money to dispose... hmm...

      I'll take em ... I could use another beowulf cluster.

      • I'll take em ... I could use another beowulf cluster.
        Not two years ago at BYU, I was still using a cluster of P2-400's for a distributed processing system. They still have it in the lab, since it's easier to test and develop your programs on the cluster than it was to wait for a scheduling turn on the various IBM and SGI supercomputers.
    • Maybe they will be sitting around a lot longer now that it costs money to dispose... hmm...

      It has ALWAYS cost money to recycle computers. If you are trashing them, you are breaking a huge number of laws dealing with hazardous materials found in computers.

      That is why it's said that something like 2/3rds of all obsolete computers are being warehoused... A waste of money in the long-term, but cheaper in the short-term.
  • the legislation seems to be talking about manufacturers. what is to stop consumers from simply dumping a computer in the bin or landfill or whenever is convenient?

    • Re:how about consumers DIY? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Obviously you haven't lived in Japan.

      I accidentally threw out my trash on the wrong day and literally became the talk of the neighborhood. I guess they even had a meeting to discuss how to politely tell the "gaijin" (foriegn dude) that he was disturbing the harmony of the system. In short, everyone is really good about compliance to these systems.

      I think it's pretty cool. The majority of people that I came into contact with have a different mind set then many people I know in the US. (Probably out o

    • You typically pay a per-pound fee for garbage disposal. Since the disposal of the PC is prepaid, it makes sense to take it to the proper station rather than stuff it in the garbage and pay twice.

      My apartment building throws garbage in with the rent. Teh tennants will place garbage in the garbage cans, and usable stuff next to the recycle bins. Every few weeks a pile of PCs or old monitors show up. Often someone will then take the machine and do something with it. End result is very similar to the Japa

  • Extra cost for throwing away computers instead? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dukeofshadows ( 607689 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @09:54PM (#7110413) Journal
    If Japan is so upset about people tossing computers away instead of recycling them, why not charge customers more for hauling away the computer as trash instead of mandating them to send them back to manufacturers? These companies ought to be paying the consumers for their (recyclable) merchandise anyway since parts can be stripped from a few obselete comps and used to rebuild a less obselete one. Personally I think it would be better all around: computers would be recycled instead of tossed, consumers could get paid for recycling the parts, and companies could turn over a profit by reselling the parts as rebuilt comps. Anyone have any other ideas/thoughts on this?
    • I think this could work, but sort of like it already does here... what about, they tack on this extra charge on the sale, and then you get some or all of that back IF you recycle? You would have to have a machine that you paid the amount on (Receipt or what-have-you to prove that you did), but if so, take it in for recycling, get $20 or whatever... people are more likely going to do that than without any final incentive... and if you throw it away, well, you loose that money then.

  • Apple's recycling program (Score:4, Informative)

    by Capt'n Hector ( 650760 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @10:02PM (#7110468)
    Don't throw that Apple away! [apple.com]

    Unfortunately it's only for the US but after reading the linked page, it seems you only pay shipping.

  • This isn't exactly new. Taiwan has been doing this since July 1998.

    "The Environmental Protection Administration has decided in principle to require mandatory recycling of computer printers from January next year.

    EPA officials said a disposal fee of NT$154 to NT$195 will be imposed on each obsolete printer, depending on model. The move is expected to force up the retail price of printers on the domestic market.

    Total sales of printers are estimated to reach 1.29 million in Taiwan each year. The EPA aims to

  • California has similar with "e-waste" bill (Score:3, Informative)

    by updog ( 608318 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @10:07PM (#7110495) Homepage
    Guv Davis said he's going to sign a similar bill for California - read the article here [siliconvalley.com].

    I think this is a great idea, if u wanna play, u gotta pay to clean up your mess when you're done with it.

    Maybe 1 more reason to vote "NO" on recall ;-)

    • I'm not for over-regulating businesses, but I think we need to go a step further here. If you are a retailer that sells a product that should be recyclable (newspapers, beverage containers, computers, etc.) or requires special disposal (batteries, motor oil, etc.), then you should be required to accept those types of items for recycling and disposal.

      Here in California, things are screwed up (surprise). We have a law that requires a deposit on beverage containers, which you can get back when you recycle

  • I know with my laptop, and those at work, the stickers are the first thing to go.

    The Intel stickers (if left on) get rubbed until it's just a big silver patch. The Windows sticker (not the registration sticker) is either removed or mutilated by various people. All but the most extreme of the service and license stickers (such as Windows XP) get rubbed to oblivion as well.

    Now there will be another sticker on the laptop, and rather than it saying "recycle fee pre-paid" it will just be yet another big wh

  • recycle? re-use is better (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @10:17PM (#7110570)
    Sell that old crap on ebay! People like me buy it! I've got FIVE used computers (2 Intel, 3 RISC) here that I use to make me money, each running a different OS (plus one more I bought new, I'll never do that again).
    • Printing dollar bills, or running a SPAM operation?
      • haha - for my last project, used old Ultrasparc I 170E ($190 on eBay 2 years ago) to run Oracle 8.1.7 on Solaris 2.6, to work out client issues in migration to RedHat AS 2.1 / Oracle 9i.

    • Re:recycle? re-use is better (Score:5, Insightful)

      by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday October 02, 2003 @12:13AM (#7111187) Journal
      It's good to re-use products, but that only works for so long. It was just a while back that I upgraded my firewall from a 386 to a pentium system.

      Do you want the 386? Do you think anyone else does? Obviously, products reach the end of their usable life, and all products eventually need to be recycled. It's good that Japan has a program in-place, and there should have been such a program in the USA for the past 20 years.

      (plus one more I bought new, I'll never do that again).

      There are plenty of reasons to buy new products. Warranties and reliability come to mind. Also, there is the issue of effeciency. Despite what people may believe, for the performance of modern computers, they are many times more effecient than older computers. Buying older systems can very likely cost you loads more on your electric bill. Then there's always the people that need good performance, not older systems that are just good enough to browse the web.
      • Buying older systems can very likely cost you loads more on your electric bill.

        When setting up my home network, my first configuration had my 486-66DX acting as a firewall router. It was plenty fast enough for the job and was free. However, we pay 8 cents/kwhr for electricity (which is effectively 24 cents/kwhr in 2 months of the summer for the A/C to remove the heat). At 100W - 200W, that adds up. I soon replaced it with a Linksys NAT firewall/router/switch at 10W. I figured it would pay for itself

    • I've got FIVE used computers (2 Intel, 3 RISC) here that I use to make me money

      Piss off, Spammer. :)
  • You pay a CHF25 (around$20) recycling fee for all electro gizmos, as they produce hazardous waste during recycling, which mandates special treatment, and Switzerland (and Japa as well I suppose) just doesn't have the land mass for large landfills.

  • throwing stuff out in Japan (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wyndigo ( 534813 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @10:20PM (#7110585)
    A subject that really hits close to home for me right now since I am about to move back to the states from Tokyo. I'll tell you what getting rid of old stuff here is very expensive undertaking.

    Its hard to sell stuff because since most of us here don't own cars transportation to would be buyers is a difficult proposition. I have a perfectly good 27" TV, washer/dryer, fridge, stereo, air conditioning unit (air conditioning is almost always wall mounted in Japan and generally speaking even if one is included with the apartment it isn't stong enough to cool/heat the whole place), 5 computers, and various shelving. It will cost me about $500 per cubic meter to ship stuff back so I'm obviously not going to ship the older/bigger stuff back. Unfortunately unless I can sell it to someone who is willing to pick it up, I am going to have to pay a fair amount of money to throw it away.

    I figure everything said, and done it will cost me about $300-$500 to throw out the stuff I can't ship. This situation leads to a lot of illegal dumping, and I really think this built in recycle tax is the way to go.

    --wyn
  • . . .with consumers footing the bill

    How exactly can a company incur a fee without pushing that expense to the consumer?

    • They can eat the expense. They may not have the ability to set prices in their market. They would like to raise prices but it may not be a realistic option.
      • My point is that no company ever "eats" the expense, and stays in business-- They cut corners elsewhere; quality, support, warranty, etc etc etc-- so basically the consumer still takes it home. It's like the refund for cans and bottles, I'm fairly sure that those states that offer refunds place that nickel on the purchase price in the first place..
    • I find it unbelievable that a Pentium that used to cost > $1K several years ago and yet the computer manufacturers can not salvage the working parts and use them elsewhere. Like electonics in a TV, VCR, cable modem, pay phone or refrigirator. In the "worst" case, they can make some cheap PCs for the poor countries.

      I think the current situation is just lazy thinking. At minimum, it should be possible for a vendor to pay for shipping and offer a small rebate on the next purchase. For sure, it might mean c
      • The problem is that it's too specialised.

        I have somewhere an old Super-Socket-7 mainboard. To put it into a VCR would require a large expenditure in making an ISA or PCI card to run all the motors in the VCR, and probably special design on the VCR itself (them K6-2/400s aren't that cool running)

        When you're spending that much, why not throw a 6502 or Z80 on for 75 cents more, and save some design hassles?

        In addition, you have to deal with an inconsistent product stream (if you're making stuff out of a sp
      • The problem is that if you make equipment that lasts forever, you can only ever sell one product to each person. Then you get to retire and go home. Whereas, if your products need replacing annually, you theoretically can sell one product to each person each year. Then you count the money stacking up, but you die of a heart attack before you get to spend any of it.

        Except that if I buy a product expecting it to last forever {which I usually do; belts, brushes, batteries, bulbs, blades and bearings wear

  • TOTALLY MISSING IMPORTANT INFORMATION (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @10:26PM (#7110615)
    I live in japan first of all, and here if you want to throw something big and complex away you need to pay to have it taken. Say a desk, a monitor, a TV, a computer, all of which you need to pay for. Now I had to pay about $60US once to throw away some furniture, so this may actually be cheaper/the same price.

    Also, that depressed economy comment. Japan's economy is still the second strongest in the world, hands down. Furthermore, as of late they have had incredible recovery and the yen is actually stronger than they want it to be (anybody noticed that it hit 110 to the dollar yesterday!?). Not to mention the new bank consolidation is working like a charm, P.M. Koizumi is an economic genius.

    And as for this, it will help the already bad trash problem and people here really aren't afraid to pay for such things. This is a great thing as far as I can see.
    • If you're living in Japan, I suggest purchasing this money saving device: a sledgehammer. I've smashed up three old pieces of furniture into pieces small enough to be placed into trashbags that were then hauled away free of charge. And on top of saving money, it's a great way to relieve some of the stress you accumulate while riding rush-hour trains, getting bitched out by your bucho, etc.
    • So is this why it is allegedly possible to walk down streets in Japanese cities and pick up DVD players and TVs with minor damage without anyone complaining? It actually saves people money? In the US, generally speaking, the trash is the property of the trash company the moment it's put out at the curb.

  • Hmmm... another purchase-time deposit (Score:3, Interesting)

    by idontgno ( 624372 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @10:27PM (#7110632) Journal
    like glass bottles and aluminum cans in certain states of the US. "IOWA REF 5c", sez the aluminum can I'm drinking out of, for instance.

    Sounds reasonable to me, as long as the money actually pays (ultimately) to disassemble the computer and reuse the materials or components.

  • Do the companies actually recycle...? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Gurezaemon ( 663755 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @11:05PM (#7110846)
    This is a great idea in principle. However, I live in Japan, and mountain biking here is a great opportunity to see enormous piles of industrial waste. More than a few companies use this system to make a few extra yen, by charging for recycling, then simply getting some small-time trucking company to either landfill the items, or as is often the case, to drive up into the mountains and dump the load off the edge of the road.

    There is significant opposition to the new legislation, which has also covered most major electrical appliances for a couple of years. Getting the store to take your old TV off your hands can cost, IIRC, something like 5000 yen. Instead of paying that, many individuals will just chuck an old TV into a rice field, or leave it somewhere. This extends to dumping cars, as it is cheaper than spending the couple of hundred dollars to get them properly trashed.

    The idea that public littering is bad is still a bit of a foreign concept in Japan. The "Japanese love of nature" thing is a bit of a bad joke to anyone who has spent more than a few days in the country.
      • The idea that public littering is bad is still a bit of a foreign concept in Japan. The "Japanese love of nature" thing is a bit of a bad joke to anyone who has spent more than a few days in the country.

      I have a feeling that the younger Japanese generation are more environmentally conscious, though. Also, there's a fair few anime that have a subtle or overt environmental theme (Princess Mononoke, Arjuna). This helps to promote an environment-aware way of thinking that will help tremendously. Give it

  • ... and here's why:

    I live in Japan now. Going to work every day, I pass by several "auto graveyards". These are just empty spots (usually an area cut out of the forested hills) where people park their cars and leave them, rather than pay to have them taken away properly. Used cars are a liability that no one wants, and you can often get a used car for free (or less than $100) at a dealership. One can also see piles of old furniture, steel drums, electronics and other assorted odds and ends.

    When it cos
  • "Consumer-Paid Computer Recycling..." ...A TAX!!!! Just say it for cryin' out loud.

  • not just computers .... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Grummet ( 161532 ) on Wednesday October 01, 2003 @11:52PM (#7111101)
    living here in Osaka has been fun for the last ten years.
    EXCEPT for when the government wrote the law that said that the consumer must pay the cost of recycling air conditioners, washers, dryers, and now computers.

    The reason why it has not been fun is because in the beautiful park nearby - and in the corners of some of the rice fields! - there are piles of dishwashing machines, refrigerators and old "wapro"s (japanese word processors). The city governement becomes responsible after several months of no one claiming them but then the tax payers money gets used for the disposal.

    You see, the problematic point is not so much that the little sticker on new machines is there to show that you have prepaid (hence adding to the price of new machines) BUT that all the old machines are levyed for a fee to recycle them.

    Many people don't want to spend 7000 yen to get rid of their old air conditioner so they junk it.

    Same thing may happen to computers too.

    Hopefully some people will be unable to afford the cost of recycling and dump some pentium class stuff!

    Hey, anyone want to help start an NPO to help me collect Japanese machines and send them to Asia/Africa?

    - Jeff -
  • Build a beowulf cluster of these!

  • Just snailmail them to random people from poor countries. They will be absolutely happy to receive them!

  • Finally, there is an extra charge that I agree with.

    Finally, there is something I would not mind paying a little extra for.

    Finally, there is an extra charge that is not some Harvard Graduate's way to make me pay for something I should have gotten for free.

    I like the idea of computer manufacturers actually being responsible for something.

  • In Norway.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tyldis ( 712367 )
    We have paid such a fee for all electrical appliances the past few years. If your TV is to be scrapped, you just have to go to a shop that sells TVs and give it to them. You don't have to buy anything there, and you don't even need to have bought it there in the first place. Buy anywhere, return anywhere. The fee is much smaller, approx $10.
  • ...for a number of years now, on all consumer electronics. Seems to work there.
  • On all household goods. Quite small amounts, ranging from a couple of Euros up to twenty or so for larger items.

    For PCs, printers, but also DVD players, TVs, fridges, cookers, etc. If it hums and clicks, it gets the "Recyclagebijdrage", a tax by any other name but well worthwile.

    Recyling in Belgium is quite advanced, and for the same kind of reasons as in Japan - there is no more room to dump stuff in big holes. Ironically, a world leader in garbage-to-energy powerstations, the Belgian company Seghers
  • This system has been in effect for some time in Norway, and it works quite well. We pay a small fee for the recycling, 5 USD or so, and turn in the computer for fre. Actually, yesterday I delivered two broken 17" CRTs, a 486, a Dell sparepart computer and an old Pentium that actually caught fire while on duty as a firewall. Guess the flames was too much.

    Anyway, the only thing you pay after the 5 USD is the petrol for the trip to Brobekk in Oslo where the center is. As a private person, you can deliver 2,5

  • Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ajs318 ( 655362 ) <sd_resp2NO@SPAMearthshod.co.uk> on Thursday October 02, 2003 @07:00AM (#7112316)
    Why the hell should I pay someone to take stuff away from me? If anything, they should be paying me to let them have it!

    Currently, however, it is cheaper for manufacturers to mine raw materials out of the ground than to recycle existing materials. However, the Earth's resources really belong to our children and their children, so mining is really a form of theft {albeit from victims who may not yet have been born}. This is only likely to change when raw materials start becoming scarce, but by that time it may well be too late.

    What is required is a tax on the extraction of virgin raw materials where a recycled substitute is available: a tax so heavy that manufacturing companies will pay good money for anything they can recycle, in order to avoid as far as possible having to mine new raw materials. It would also be necessary to place a tax {or an outright ban - cf. ivory} on imported finished goods made where virgin material extraction was untaxed.

    Of course this will affect domestic and international trade. So did the abolition of slavery. What's your point? Just because you've been getting away with doing something which is so obviously wrong for a long time, does not make it right.

  • Manufacturers should pay the price of recycling (Score:3, Interesting)

    by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Thursday October 02, 2003 @08:01AM (#7112643)
    For all products, not just computers.

    Why is it that when I buy a mcdonalds lunch I pay for the lunch, then I (as a taxpayer) pay for the landfill their disposable (and questionably useful) materials fill up? Why do I pay for a monitor then pay for the lead shielding and toxic metals to be properly disposed of?

    Why not require mcdonalds to pay the cost of disposal? Why not require huggies to pay the cost of disposal? Why not require Dell to pay for the cost of disposal? Why not require every manufacturer to pay the cost of disposal for their packaging - heck, lets force them to make everything strictly either recyclable or biodegradable.

    Economically incentivize them to make useful, recyclable or biodegradable packaging. The prices for us would raise what? a couple pennies, maybe a nickle? In the meantime we could end the ridiculous land fill phenomenon.

    Why do we continue giving corporations all the desireable rights of individuals, but deny them any of the responsibilities?

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