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Windows GUI Operating Systems Software

More Looks At Far-Off 'Longhorn' 543

Posted by timothy from the a-gnome-in-the-hand dept.
b17bmbr writes "According to eWeek, the first builds are out, with an SDK. The Register notes: 'Microsoft builds leak regularly, Microsoft knows this, and Microsoft knows that the wider the distribution of the software, the faster it's going to spread all over the internet...The timing is impressive for an alpha build of a product that is not scheduled to hit the streets for another two years, and which could quite easily stretch to three.' Methinks this is just vaporware." And Cleverone writes "Several days before PDC 03' attendees will obtain their copy, screenshots of the new build have already made their way to the net. For those inquisitive few, the build stamp is 6.0.4051.0."
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More Looks At Far-Off 'Longhorn' More

More Looks At Far-Off 'Longhorn'

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  • Sweet (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 26, 2003 @05:56PM (#7315119)
    It's about time alternatives to Linux pop up for people to use.

    • Finally!!!! (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A true alternative to the Linux tax!!!
  • I really like the toned-down brushed metal windows in place of the Playskool XP Theme. These are the kinds of innovations that are going to keep Windows ahead of the game in the long-run.

  • Hype?? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What hype? Hardly anybody outside the tech world and non-geeks have any clue about what Longhorn is or really care.

    The only people really hyped are Microsoft fanboys and Microsoft haters like the ones on slashdot.

    It's typical slashbot mentality that Microsoft is leaking builds to build hype and promote this. I bet you think Bill Gates was on the grassy knoll too.

  • Quick Version Info (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Infernon ( 460398 ) * <infernon@gmail. c o m> on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:01PM (#7315142)
    Windows 2000 - Version 5.0
    Windows XP - Version 5.1
    Longhorn - Version 6.0

    So it looks like Longhorn is actually a full version up. Not that I truly understand what any of that means. Anyone have a changelog? :)
    • The key upgrades from NT4 to NT5 seem to include real pnp support, integral support for AGP, NTFS 3.0 (I think that's the version - what is commonly called NTFS5) and the Windows Driver Model subsystem, as well as terminal services, and a number of administration tools.

      5.1 just basically had a face lift, and terminal services got revamped into remote desktop connection.

      I have no idea what is supposed to merit a major version bump in longhorn, though; I guess the new GUI rendering engine?

      • Re:Quick Version Info (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:30PM (#7315295) Journal
        I have no idea what is supposed to merit a major version bump in longhorn, though; I guess the new GUI rendering engine?

        No :-)

        Actually, all Windows releases so far with a bump in the major version number *has* been very major indeed. Compare Windows 3.x to Windows 95 with its total change of desktop metaphors, going from icons representing file "links" only to real files, or Windows NT4 to Windows 2000 with enormous changes in the OS core.

        Microsoft may bump a lot of version numbers for their software unnecessary, but I wouldn't say they're doing it with their operating systems. Windows XP only got a 0.1 bump since it is only a revised version of Windows 2000 after all.

        Windows Longhorn will feature radical changes in the GUI, maybe making todays' Windows XP look like Windows 3.11 in comparison. It will also offer code restructures to use the .NET API and attempt to be even more secure than Windows 2003 Server by doing this. All .NET API procedures should for example automatically do basic things like bounds checks, which C++ code seldom does.

        Windows Longhorn will also feature DRM built-in, which might have large implications for the user as well.

        I personally think MS is putting a lot of eggs in one basket with Longhorn. If it's a failure, MS will be hit hard by it, but with the market dominance they have, they're probably sleeping well at night anyway.

        • Re:Quick Version Info (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bogie ( 31020 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @07:44PM (#7315647) Journal
          "Windows Longhorn will feature radical changes in the GUI, maybe making todays' Windows XP look like Windows 3.11 in comparison"

          Somehow I find that really hard to believe. If these screenshots are even sightly Representative of the way MS is going then its going to look a lot like XP with just different colored/sized widgets and maybe a stupid "infobar" that most people will disable because it takes up 30% of your screen. I know MS is holding some visual aspects back, but there is nothing I've seen that's far off from what has already been made by the modding community.

          Will it be different then XP, Yes. Will it be some radical shift that someone working with XP won't even recognize? Doubtful. MS has invested too many years in getting its users used to the way Windows works. My guess for the GUI is XP & 1/2, ie more "things you can do with files" will pop up when browsing folders and of course a different theme and wallpaper. Remember that last radical shift GUI-wise was win 3.x to 95. The only thing massively different between 95 and XP gui-wise is the Start Menu. Underneath there may be a lot going on, but on top MS can't go too crazy because secretaries need to be able to find their programs and my docs folder just as easy as they did with XP and 95.

          "I personally think MS is putting a lot of eggs in one basket with Longhorn. If it's a failure, MS will be hit hard by it, but with the market dominance they have, they're probably sleeping well at night anyway."

          But like you inferred they can't really fail can they? I mean when 90% plus of all desktops ship with whatever OS you want how can you fail? Once these new desktops ship you'll need to upgrade all your apps etc and the treadmill will continue except for the 10% of users who realize that there are alternatives. MS may fail in a technical sense if they somehow fuck up Longhorn, but given that they have so much time I don't see how they could. Worst case they scale back features because they a)don't work or b) aren't wanted by beta testers, and then they ship win2003 plus minor updates as a desktop.

          Isn't it great having a monopoly?
      • Terminal Services (RDP) came before Windows 2000. There was a Terminal Services edition of NT 4 Server.

    • Re:Quick Version Info (Score:5, Funny)

      by tuba_dude ( 584287 ) <tuba.terry@gmail.com> on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:20PM (#7315246) Homepage Journal
      Sure, it's right here:

      JRH:
      -Moved NSA backdoor from explorer.vb to kernel
      -Just recieved payment from FBI, finishing touches on their backdoor.
      -Looked at networking code from the 32-hour coding session, no security holes found yet.
      TODO: Find more caffiene to hide with next time marketing comes to fire me.

      BG:
      -New easter egg in ie: "ALL YOUR MARKETSHARE ARE BELONG TO US"
      TODO: Get a press relase out about security.

      Marketing department:
      Cleaned up the puke on the UI, left the corrosion patterns there.
      TODO:
      -Change codename to something less sucktacular.
      -Fire JRH

      • Re:Quick Version Info (Score:5, Informative)

        by bmajik ( 96670 ) <matt@mattevans.org> on Sunday October 26, 2003 @07:35PM (#7315611) Homepage Journal
        i know you're being funny but i thought i'd chime in:

        there is now (and has been for at least 3 years) the policy at MS that if you put an easter egg in MS software you should expect to be fired upon its discovery.

        also, no one in marketing at MS is in a position to fire anyone working in a product group. i have never actually even met any marketing people at MS. I think i see them from time to time -- i'll see a bunch of dorks in nice looking clothes having a meeting, often with catered lunch, all staring blankly at a .ppt presentation -- but i've never dealt with any of them. Infact, the only real impact marketing has on product teams that i can tell is for naming stuff. I.e. longhorn is the code name for the future windows client. At some point, it will get renamed to something. Thats a decision that marketing is in on. Once the new name is decided, an email will go out to everyone that more or less says "marketing has said that the new name is x, please update all string resources to use the new name". For instance, late in the game Windows Server 2003 was changed to not include the ".NET" branding. Going over every place in the product (docs included) where someone had written down "Windows .NET Server" was required.

        Also, product developers are not strictly/solely responsible for finding bugs. If a developer works 32 straight hours on a peice of code, its not up to that developer to own the correctness of the code - its up to the tester(s) assigned to that feature area. I've met at least one tester that would ask each of the developers he worked with (conversationally) how late they'd worked, and then would prioritize his testing for the day partially based on who had stayed up the latest or worked the longest hours. Finding a bug less then 12 hours old is incredibly helpful.

        Finally, marketing has little to do with the UI in windows. Nobody in marketing (that i am aware of, anyway) has the right know how, much less access and tools, to modify the code that draws UI's in Windows. They may have input into how stuff works, but thats really more of a PM issue (program manager). PM's are typically very technically savvy (although often not with the depth you'd see from test or development), so they're closer to the JRH side then the Marketing side (usually)

    • Re:Quick Version Info (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:22PM (#7315255) Journal
      There might be a lot of "under the surface" changes in Longhorn, making Microsoft think it's worth increasing the major version number. I think parts of the OS will be rewritten to use .NET API's using managed code (i.e. more secure code with better bounds checking, etc). They'll introduce the new file system WinFS that's implemented as a layer on top of NTFS and will make working with the files on a system more like working with a database. Whatever that will mean in practice might be unknown at this point. :-) They might also introduce DRM as part of the OS, which could have all sorts of implications to the user.

      So there's a lot of known and unknown features planned, and since I haven't tried a Longhorn Alpha, I don't even know exactly what's in it so far. There are of course all sorts of visual changes, and the PDC build have already revealed dozens of surprise changes like an improved Internet Explorer with for example anti-popup support, a new plugin architecture [neowin.net], and a new download manager [neowin.net], etc.

      Since Windows has a lot of software integrated, it's hard to keep track of all changes, especially if you're going to do it in detail, this early. Longhorn isn't even in Beta yet.
    • Windows Server 2003
    • Here [infoworld.com]'s an interesting, albeit incomplete change log.
    • What about their new filesystem, where files can be filed under many categories, meaning it has an SQL server in the background? Dunno what else, probably DRM that will come with the "Media Center" Why am I guessing they'll have PVR features built in? With an icon to subscribe to MSN-TV on the desktop, probably. And the whole thing will honor the HDTV Evil bit. Maybe the whole thing will be Palladium-protected so that it's virus-proof. That will surely take a while to develop.

  • Any screenshot mirrors? (Score:5, Funny)

    by roumada ( 684718 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:04PM (#7315157)
    Of course, the screenshots are /.ed already. A machine brought to its knees by Longhorn without even having it installed!

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:06PM (#7315162)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Uh... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Jack Auf ( 323064 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:20PM (#7315243) Homepage
      I think what the original poster meant is that Microsoft has a long history of leaking/releasing screenshots and tidbit about upcoming products when they know damn well that the product won't be available for many months if not years. So in that respect it is "vaporware" - the product won't see public release for at least a year and a half.

      Microsoft has a long history of doing this - Exchange, MSSQL, Windows NT2000 & XP, SMS, etc. Why do they do this? To prevent existing customers from changing products. Example:

      Tech: (product n.n) sucks ass and is unreliable. We should dump it for (other product).
      PHB: But the MS rep told me that (product n.n+1) is on the way and going to be released "Real Soon Now(tm)".
      Tech: They told you that to prevent you from switching to something that actually works.
      PHB: The MS rep promised that it would be out by the end of the year.
      Tech: Which really means the end of *next* year. Maybe. Maybe the end of the year after that.

      You see how that works now? They lie to keep their customers locked in and on the hook. I have seen this first hand many many times.

      • Re:Uh... (Score:3, Informative)

        by Jugalator ( 259273 )
        Lie? Microsoft is releasing this PDC build as a first technology preview for developers to get an idea of what Longhorn will have to offer. Microsoft have also stated that they're aiming for a release in 2006.

        No, this release won't be out in a year and a half. It won't be out in two years even. But no one said so either. Actually, MS explicitly told that it won't. So far, MS hasn't fooled their customers into believing Longhorn is just around the corner. They have been very careful to tell the opposite, ac

      • Re:Uh... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by op00to ( 219949 )
        Damnit, and here I was thinking he was wrong....

        [from the jargon file]

        vaporware /vay'pr-weir/ Products announced far in advance of
        any release (which may or may not actually take place). The
        term came from Atari users and was later applied by
        Infoworld to Microsoft's continuous lying about Microsoft
        Windows.

        See also brochureware.

    • Re:Uh... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Speed Racer ( 9074 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:55PM (#7315410)

      Vaporware? You think the next version of Windows is vaporware? Somehow I don't think Microsoft is going to hype a new Windows version and then never come out with one. "Sorry! That project got killed! You'll have to stick with XP!"

      The name Cairo springs to mind.

  • Rerun (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jmorris42 ( 1458 ) * <{jmorris} {at} {beau.org}> on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:06PM (#7315164)
    We have seen this all before. Remember the hype machine for Chicago? How about Cairo? The finished product never resembles the hype but it keeps the trade press talking about Microsoft's product that will never be instead of competitors products which are shipping now.
    • Yeah, wow. It's like Microsoft invented hype.

    • trade press talking about Microsoft's product that will never be instead of competitors products which are shipping now

      I don't think it's any coincidence that Apple began selling 10.3 last Friday. Maybe paranoid, but MSFT has done it before, and not just to Apple. What's more amazing, is why do they care enough to bother? Is it just force of habit, or do they actually feel that Apple may yet pose some threat? I think it's more likely the former, actually.

  • Screenshots (Score:5, Informative)

    by ewithrow ( 409712 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:07PM (#7315167) Homepage


    More screenshots can be found here [neowin.net].

    • Heh. Screenshots of some new IE features strangely resemble features that Mozilla and others have had for a year or two. Pop-up blocking. Extension manager. Download manager. And dare I hope, full CSS support.

      Innovative. I wonder if they'll have some actual improvements in it, instead of just playing catch-up.

      Sarcasm aside, I genuinely hope the new IE is great - it will make my job easier. As a web developer, I'm just not looking forward to the prospect that IE6's CSS bugs won't be fixed for 3 year

      • Re:New IE (Score:3, Insightful)

        by EinarH ( 583836 )
        Yes, I noticed the pop-up feature on this picture [neowin.net] and it's about time...

        And yeah, I'm not looking forward to a possible new IE6 CSS either, that would be like MS Java all over again.

        One thing I would like to see in IE is a possibility to have several proxies and IE automaticly selecting the proxy with the lowest latency.

      • full CSS support.

        How many years late?

        I wonder if they will finally support PNG alpha channels correctly.

  • Naming Scheme (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:07PM (#7315172)
    Good to see Microsoft is using there old naming scheme...

    Windows 95
    Windows 98
    Windows 4051

  • DRM? (Score:3, Funny)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:07PM (#7315173) Journal
    There are some screen shots missing from that site, namely the error message saying "a non-drm enabled media file has been detected and removed from your computer"

  • Why? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Simple-Simmian ( 710342 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:08PM (#7315180) Journal
    Why is the "news" 2007 is a longway off.
  • The future is now, because NOW, you not only get 50% less screen real estate because of the fancy clock and sidebar, but IN ADDITION, you get a small dancing paperclip singing Michael Bolton every time your computer crashes. w00t! All hail Longhorn!

  • IE changes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jayde Stargunner ( 207280 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:09PM (#7315182)
    Noticed in some of the screens that the Longhorn IE has both a pop-up blocker/manager as well as a download manager (ala GetRight).. Kinda interesting developments--although I suppose we'll have to buy Longhorn to get that version of IE. Heh.

    -Jayde
  • It's a smart move, after all. Instead of releasing a late alpha version as a product (like Win95) that'll have to be endlessly patched and fixed and improved (Win95 Plus, Win98, Win98SE), they're quietly leaking alpha versions so people can report bugs and they can fix it over two years until they have a 98SE-like stable build to market.

    Well, it's a smart conspiracy theory.
    • Dude, Win98 leaked at least a year before it was released. It's a nice conspiracy theory, but do you really think people who are downloading the supposedly private build of Longhorn, *cracking* it, and installing it, are going to be very liable to report bugs they find to MS?

      It's mostly PR, I'd say. Sure, Linux is great and it's here now, but wouldn't you rather have the Next New Thing, which will come with 10% MORE FEATURES than Linux?
  • If Microsoft really wanted to prevent leaks like this they could embed invisible watermarks into the screen captures. Is there any way to tell if they are already doing this? If I were under NDA I would want to be certain that the screenshots couldn't be traced back my company.
    • who cares about mere screenshots.

      even 98 can be made to look something that would resemble any screenshots you're likely to find.

      an os is much more than the pretty images on screen. what would be more intresting would be detailed reports on the state of the more important additions(fs, the system itself) than some silly screenshots. like, are they really adding anything useful/secure/faster/helping or just bloating it with prettier bars?

  • Microsoft is in a tough spot with this one (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:11PM (#7315193)
    Theyr'e talking about a 2006 release for longhorn. Operating system updates have traditionally been nice cash cows for them. The same is true for office. Now, no one feels a pressing need to upgrade their office suites. Office 2003 is not very compelling. Anyone who sends me an encrypted document and expects me to spend nearly a grand so I can read is going to get a rude document back in plaintext.

    So, they have their next upgrade is due in 2.5 years, their competitors are upgrading at an ever faster and regular pace (witness apple 4 upgrades in 2 years the latest being 64bit). It becomes a little bit obvious why they are leaking this.

    The problem now is they will promise whatever they think the customer wants to hear at this point. When it comes time to ship they will need an OS that delivers features while still maintaining backward compatibility. Microsofts installed base has become the anchor around its neck. If they do big feature changes that obsolete products no one will upgrade, if they don't no one will upgrade.

    OSS has the same problem when picking up new features but it doesn't have the same petty extortionists trying to sell the same thing all over again.
    • I have to admire your smoothness. You detail Microsoft's obvious lack of competitiveness and then try to hang the same problems on free software. The transition was well done, though your overall point is FUD. You claim:

      OSS has the same problem when picking up new features ... .

      I don't think you can name one free software "feature" that has ever been dropped. Free software never dies if anyone has any interest in it and I've never seen a piece of free software become unavailable. Even closed source

      • I really hate to explain myself, but you raise significant points and point out misperceptions. Saying microsoft is not competetive is so completely laughable its funnier than the addams family episode I am watching. Microsoft is the default choice. Its Coke and Pepsi. Everything else barely amounts to RC Cola. They are in a bad place because they have allowed their competitors an opportunity to increase their market share at microsofts expense, and they seem to have mismanaged their product cycle.

        OSS do
    • Gee, Hopefully they can get by with only scores of billions they have in cash. Times are tight for everyone I guess. Hang in there Bill.

  • Here is another link.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by adeyadey ( 678765 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:14PM (#7315208) Journal
    Here is another link where you can see the next version of Windows.. [localhost.nl]

  • This gives us time. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Adolph_Hitler ( 713286 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:18PM (#7315234)
    This gives us linux developers time to add whatever improvements are made via longhorn into Linux so that by the time 2006 comes alone, Linux will already have all of the important features and plus its own improvements.

  • What are you doing? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sabNetwork ( 416076 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:27PM (#7315279)
    You have a lot of nerve. Why did you link directly to the forum site? They obviously can't handle the server load or the bandwidth, especially for screenshots.

  • Reminds me of NT5 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by fildo ( 683072 )
    Remember the betas for Windows NT 5? I think I still have them, somewhere. Point being, a lot can change in the span of a year, nevermind 2-3.

  • Uugh (Score:3, Informative)

    by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:39PM (#7315337)
    I don't mind eye-candy if it doesn't bog down the system and waste space. Did you see the explorer screenshots [neowin.net]? I mean is there any way they could have wasted some more space?!? When I'm browsing my files I usually want to be able to see more than 5 of them at a time!!! I mean look at it, big useless images, 3 different places to click if you want to search, I'm assuming they'll fill up the rest of that filter frame with something but I can't see it not being a waste. Also what the heck does "Add/Remove Programs" have to to with file browsing?!? I'd go on longer but I don't think I'd ever finish, from a usability standpoint they just seem to be getting worse and worse, They've got to figgure out that when someone wants to look at their files they really do want to look at their files! The files seem as if they're the least important in the window. They're never going to catch Apple in usability with junk like this, and when I'm talking Apple I don't just mean OS X, I'm looking back to OS 7 too (I'd go back furthur but don't have experience with pre OS 7), as far as I'm concerned the buggy hulk of Mac OS 7 is FAR more usable than anything M$ has come out with to date and anything is more usable then the file browser shown in that screenshot.
    • Hehe, keep in mind it's only a temporary desktop design not using the new Aero engine or whatever it's called. I doubt the final version will be similar to these alpha screenshots. The interesting parts to me lie in the features, not the GUI.
    • It's not even Beta. It's more like "pre-alpha". Developers haven't even started working on the UI. There are a bunch of ideas and stuff flying around. Later they'll do usability testing and throw all the useless stuff away.
    • Oh come on. First, this isn't a screenshot from a release version. Second, the screenshot's meant to show off some new interface concepts -- and I'm willing to bet, all at the same time. You can make explorer pretty wasteful in space usage with every version of Windows, but you can get rid of it if you want. Chances are very good they turned on everything under the sun for the purposes of that shot.
    • "Add/Remove Programs" have to to with file browsing?..."

      What if you could click on a file and remove the program associated with it?

      Please remember that MS is trying to remove the idea of files from their users.

  • DRM (Score:5, Funny)

    by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Sunday October 26, 2003 @06:48PM (#7315382) Homepage
    How did they get the screen shots ? I thought that the big thing about this release was supposed to be DRM & Fritz chip to stop this -- or are all of these GIFs going to stop working next week ?

    Oh, wait - I get it, silly me, it's Microsoft, so of course: it just doesn't work. SNAFU.
  • One bad trend that Microsoft has been having is inefficient use of space in a window. Look at the following example where half the space is for menus and icons and the rest of the actual folder view.

    http://www.neowin.net/staff/creamhackered/longho rn build4051/explorer.jpg

    The same problem exists to a lesser degree in XP and Windows 2000.
  • I just got a copy in my MSDN Subscription that I get from my companies MCSP status, but I still had to call and preordered it for them to ship it. I haven't gotten around to installing it fully, but the install system is really neat. Some wierd features its wants me to install. New filesystem for it now, called SQLFS instead of NTFS or FAT32. Its basicly SQL Server running inside of the kernal now I'm guessing. Post more updates on my findings on my site if anyone's interested.
    • From MSDN Downloads website:

      Here's a select list of new downloads for MSDN Subscribers

      Special Access to Longhorn and Whidbey PDC Release Code

      Active MSDN Operating Systems, Professional, Enterprise, and Universal subscribers may request a set of software distributed at the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference 2003 (PDC), including the preview versions of the "Longhorn" operating system and SDK, and Visual Studio "Whidbey".

      Eligible MSDN Subscribers can request the previews by calling MSDN C

  • So...

    Anyone got a torrent?

    :-)
  • There's a note on MSDN Subscriber Downloads that says that Operating System or higher level MSDN subscribers can get a copy of the PDC DVD(s) containing preview editions of Longhorn, its SDK, and the next Visual Studio version by calling MSDN customer service and asking for a copy.

    Contact info here [microsoft.com] if you're a subscriber.

    G.

  • They have some good ideas (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jameth ( 664111 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @08:19PM (#7315769)
    Two or three, at least.

    The best one is letting windows work with their title-bar a bit more. Note that, in the screenshots, explorer has the page title in larger text, a go-to location button, and a location bar all in the title bar of the window. Not that it looks excellent in that case, but there are many cases where it is nice to be able to work with the decorations a bit more. Most things that want a custom top right now just hide decorations, but they look to still be using the same theme on that title-bar as on the rest of the desktop.

    Also, during the installation they look to have explanatory help, something most Linux distributions might want to do better on.

    I'm sure there was a third good idea I noted, but it's really hard to see. Basically, it's still just a dressed-up version of WindowsXP. I suspect they are still working more on the internals, as they don't really want to design all the GUI crap until they know how much they can do with the internals, such as the Kernel and the FileSystem (especially the FileSystem).

  • That's nothing! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Valar ( 167606 ) on Sunday October 26, 2003 @08:31PM (#7315818)
    I have a leaked beta of the new linux [kernel.org].

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