BitPass: Micropayment That Seems To Work 180
Omega1045 writes "I have been following the story of BitPass for some time now. The micropayment solution provider has been featured on Slashdot before. That article focused on Scott McCloud, and his comic The Right Number. Since that story, BitPass has added a number of sites using their service. From this netizen, it looks like the idea is really taking off. Some news sources (NJ.com, SiliconValley.com) have noticed how this micropayment trend has progressed to include well known services like iTunes. I really like the idea of the artist getting a fair cut of the profits at BitPass."
Still... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Still... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it all comes down to whether there are enough people who don't mind paying for good content to support the creators.
I'm one of them, and while most of the content under BitPass at the moment isn't really my thing, a lot of it's certainly of high quality and well worth paying for.
And to me, viewing ads *is* paying. In a currency I don't want to spend.
- MugginsM
Re:Still... (Score:1)
The opposite is just as important. With the given examples of IGN and Fileplanet, the content simply is not compelling enough for people to subscribe. I can generally find the same info on IGN elsewhere (maybe not the same editorials or previews, but I'm not hardcore enough to care), and I can find other mirrors or torrents of Fileplanet downloads. Without excellent subscriptio
Re:Still... (Score:4, Interesting)
In real life you often get to personally meet those starving artists when you buy their wares or pay for performances; there's a real emotional connection there - not so online (usually). In Real Life you get a feelgood for supporting local artists, and you get a more meaningful "Thank You" when handing over your cash - online it's more antiseptic.
I would be 100 times more likely to pay for really great online content if:
--
Re:The question then is... (Score:2)
I am in other places, but slashdot quality is much too sporadic. I'd much rather have micropayments and pay when there's something interesting to read.
- Colin
Re:Still... (Score:5, Interesting)
BitPass has a nice model in that they offer a wide range of options. You can charge for specific content, charge for subscriptions to changing content, or just take donations. If they play their cards right, they'll be the next PayPal.
Re:Still... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Still... (Score:2)
I may not create as much content as I really want to, but I still do. And I see no reason to impose some kind of charge on it. The internet needs billions of people giving away a little bit for free, not 10,000 *rock stars* creating mindless consumer garbage that can be tied into marketing Pepsi or Nike.
The attitude that it shouldn't be free, is part of a long term strategy to steamroll over free developers/
Re:Still... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Still... (Score:2)
Re:Still... (Score:2)
As for me being able to create more quality content, I find it offensive that in your world, I could liv
Too early ? or never come ? (Score:5, Insightful)
The tendence might invert itself. But it will take a lot of time. And I even think maybe never because they will always be a drove of talended people making something for free.
Re:Too early ? or never come ? (Score:2)
stop comparing tv and the internet
it is NOT the same
it is quite difficult for the average joe to produce tv content for the masses
it is trivial to produce web content
there will always be the openinfo/opensource mentality people who will provide reasonable content for free, for the love of it.
for a premium service to survive it has got to be VERY premium
itunes is not a webservice or internet service
its a music store
its selling music
over the internet
like amazonsells books
Yes, but not all art is commoditzed yet! (Score:2)
The key phrase there is "the same or equivalent content" -- in other words, commoditized content.
It is loosely true that a market tends to push the price of a commodity towards its marginal cost, which is nearly zero in the case of digital information. The trick is that not all art is a commodity. Some is, to be sure -- does the public really care which boy / boob band
Well most people using the net have no money (Score:1)
Re:Still... (Score:4, Interesting)
The most important point, IMO, is that there are cognitive costs associated with the decision about whether or not to make a purchase that don't go away as dollar amounts decrease.
Re:Still... (Score:2)
Which is a good argument, IMHO. However, aren't there very similar costs in viewing an advert?
- MugginsM
Re:Still... (Score:2)
I doubt it. You don't choose whether or not you see an advertisement, they are always just there and you learn to ignore them or you are forced to sit through it. There is no decision made on you're part.
There is a similiar cost in situations where you are forced to click on X number of banner ads to get where you want, but look at how popular that situation is. It's basically limited to warez and pr0n sites.
An
Re:Still... (Score:2)
Re:Still... (Score:2)
Too early? I think it's too greedy.
Re:Still... (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I don't mind at all paying for stuff on an "a la carte" basis. But, just like regular shopping, I want to walk into the store, pick out the thing I want, and buy just that.
I'm betting that, as usual, the first industry to take advantage of a working, widespread micropayment system will be the porn industry.
Re:Still... (Score:2)
Re:Still... (Score:3, Funny)
It'll be the same day humanity evolves to the point where they have no need for money.
Re:Still... (Score:4, Interesting)
I resorted to using a torrent to get the 2.0 patch for America's Army, and I'm a believer now. I downloaded the 200+ megs in about 2 hours, and left the connection on all night to help out other downloaders. By the next day, I had served out 2gb on my torrent connection for AA before shutting it down. I'd rather "pay" using my bandwidth to serve other people, and get very fast service and good d/l rate, than have to sacrifice my personal information just to feed some marketers. Sorry guys.
Re:Still... (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand, people are perfectly willing to buy things over the web (consider Amazon or eBay), and they even seem willing to buy things over the web which will be delivered to them over the web (consider Magnatune).
I think that payments will prove to work fine for items which can be tried in advance or returned, and which are not part of the normal interaction with the site. And purchases depend exclusively on the good will of the purchaser; the content will be available elsewhere, and making it less convenient to get from the original source just reduces the chance that people will spend money on the original site.
Ironically, I think that the best model is to give away your content in a neatly indexed fashion on your site, and allow people to pay their choice of price to download exactly the same content in a zip file. Document who gets the money. People operate both as donors and as consumers, but not really both at the same time. On the web, it's hard to engage people as consumers (unless you promise to send them physical objects), so your best bet is to hook them as donors.
Re:Still... (Score:4, Insightful)
People are totally willing to pay for internet content. See all these consumers who put down $40, $50, even $70 monthly for high-speed connections?
They wouldn't spend like that unless they desired internet content enough to give money for it. They only problem is that today they give this money to ISPs, not content-creators. Viewers are willing to pay for content; they're just not willing to buy content. If the cumbersome, distracting, and insecure process of paying for a website were removed, readers would have no problem forking over some cash. Removing those procedural obstacles is the quest of every micropayment project.
I'd be happy to give slashdot $0.02 per page I read, which would cover their bandwidth and then some. (Typical rate for one banner impression is much, much less than a penny. But few readers would hestitate to give $0.01 to read a good page. The time it'd take to transfer that money traditionally is more valuable than the cash itself)
PS. Part of the reason so many people feel guiltless about collecting MP3s off P2P is that they are paying for them already. File-sharing is an expensive hobby. They just pay Comcast and Dell instead of the RIAA.
Re:Still... (Score:2)
Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:3, Informative)
15%! Are they crazy?
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:2, Funny)
Not if they round up... (Score:2)
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:2)
I can get a flat rate at $0.30 a transaction, with a $60 monthly fee if I provide my own merchant account. What the hell providor are you using?
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:2)
I think the whole point of all micropayments is that they work out cheaper for very small payments, but when $2 at BitPass rates is $0.30, and PayPal is $0.35, its looking like you want to use BitPass only for *really* small transaction costs, but when the difference is so small, you might as well give out more for $5
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:1)
What in the HELL are you talking about? This is by far the most expensive CC processing service that I have EVER heard of. That's not even in the ballpark of reality. REAL CC merchant accounts (and yes, I have one) cost about $0.00/transaction + 3.5% to about $0.06/transaction + 2.5% with no monthly fees.
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:2)
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:1)
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:1)
Thats not the problem, the problem is (Score:1)
Re:Not cheap, very high cost per sale. (Score:2)
There's a reason most charge a minimum fee which are orders of magnitude higher. Personally, I can't see how this could be profitable at all.
Kjella
Another micropayment solution (Score:2, Interesting)
"...really taking off."? (Score:2, Funny)
All micropayments this year don't equal what Warren Buffet loses in the wash each week.
Something on topic (Score:5, Insightful)
I think "home grown" service like BitPass are just the key for up and coming artists. Offering a service at such a small amount of money is very marketable. This is possible for the artist because the they gets such a large portion of that take. On an average CD, the artist makes much less than a dollar. That is a very small percentage @ $12 to $15 for a new cd!
Imagine a YOUNG Metallica level artist on their way up. Instead of using traditional means, they offer their LP at $2, on BitPass via MP3. They make much more per album than they would through traditional means. They don't have to sell near as many albums to be a huge financial success, and continue to make their music or whatever.
Sounds like success to me! I can think of a few local bands that I wish were still around, but simply could not afford it. A succesful BitPass style service could have really helped them!
Marketing Cost (Score:2)
If you have never heard of a band, and cant beaucse they arent marketed beyond their town, what difference does it make if they get more % back on an album.
There IS a cost to market, and the bands cant do it on their own when they first start out..
Micropayments wont help that a bit.
But like i said above, taking 99% of the money fronted and claiming it was 'for marketing purpo
Re:Marketing Cost (Score:1)
These are really good points. I agree with your point. Record companies and their expertise in marketing new artists have a big influence on the success or failure of the artist.
However, I think that an artist could hire a marketing firm on their own, or do less traditional marketing. Look at the success of the Blair Witch project. Much of their hype started from their web site. I think there will be other ways to get "big" in the future, than going through the Nazis at the RIAA.
And the real po
Re:Marketing Cost (Score:1)
And I'm sure if this commercial model takes place there will be web sites dedicated to finding new interesting music, make reviews etc. There are already sites that promote all kind of products this
Re:Something on topic (Score:1)
But how are they going to sell millions of albums? The major labels provide one avenue. The labels will select a few groups from the thousands with a suitable level of talent, a marketable signature, and a strong desire to be famous. They will then market the group strongly, placing them above other groups with
Obligatory PA Link (Score:5, Funny)
-Trillian
Obligatory follow-up (Score:4, Insightful)
G&T are hilarious, but heavens, they do shoot their arrogant little mouths off sometimes. Micropayments may not work, and Scott McCloud may not be right about everything (or even anything), but (1) as a hard-working veteran artist who was drawing comics when the PA crew was in diapers, he deserved more respect than they gave him, (2) as a veteran embracing change, a creative mind trying to test out new, risky ideas, he deserved more respect than they gave him, and (3) as somebody who is -- hello! -- trying to figure how they can make a living from their craft, he deserved one heck of a lot more respect than they gave him.
They ended up eating a bit of crow over that comic -- mostly because McCloud himself responded by being persistently civil to them until they realized what a couple of assholes they were. But they did realize, and came back with the kind of civility their satire ought to have carrier from the beginning. Tycho: "Reader response to Friday's thingy was profoundly, powerfully negative (Which Scott even apologized for - can you believe that?)
Where does it end? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Where does it end? Where it begins... (Score:2)
I honestly think this will be incentive some day for the small voice to be heard and the small journalistic/news sites to make some server/staff support money.
I actually think that Micropayments should be very small 1 and 2 cents and
Filters (Score:3)
Re:Where does it end? (Score:2)
Next thing you know your paying out the nose for something that once was free. (Ad supported.)
The idea of micropayments is nice in theory but there are many pitfalls that must be fleshed out before
Re:Where does it end? (Score:1)
Re:Where does it end? (Score:3, Insightful)
Pointless, and here's why (Score:5, Interesting)
We initially volunteered for the trial, but didn't bother once we heard of the terms- basically, 15%, same as paypal. Our users would have objected to keeping a balance they couldn't use anywhere else. Worse, we'd loose ANOTHER 15% because they(at the time) only supported PayPal for transferring funds. Worse, they only do the transfer when it gets to a certain size. Micropayments, macrotransfers, mean that not only are they ripping you a new one on the 15% fee, but they're ALSO getting your interest.
Call me silly and slap me stupid, but the point of micropayments was to make small payments economically viable. I don't call "three times a credit card processing fee" viable for what amounts to nothing more than a proxy service.
All Bitpass does is play "mini paypal", and that's neither original nor novel. Next, please. That technology involving random numbers+statistics looked far more promising....
Re:Pointless, and here's why (Score:2)
Do you mean Hashcash [cypherspace.org]? Keep in mind it does not provide any monetary or reusable value to those that accept Hashcash, it only proves that a "purchaser" has spent an amount of time doing CPU work. The purpose is to artificially increase scarcity of a service, not to compensate service providers. Useful, but a completely different purpose than BitPass.
Re:Pointless, and here's why (Score:1)
This is not new! (Score:3, Informative)
Kind of Pricey (Score:5, Insightful)
For items priced $5.00 and higher, the transaction fee is 5% + $0.50.
15% is one helluva chunk to take for being the clearinghouse for micropayments, and the over $5 fee is roughly twice what you'd pay through a US commercial gateway.
Not even attempting to be competative (Score:3, Interesting)
Unless you have a personal account in which case it's free (but you can't take credit card payments). The only way BitPass beats PayPal is under $2.35 for a transaction. For a $5 transaction I pay about 41 cents to PayPal where I'd be charged 75 cents for BitPass.
I don't like micropayments and although I could save all of 19 cents in fees per $1 account, there's no way I'm going to use two on-line payment compan
Where's Visa? (Score:4, Informative)
What I'm trying to ask is a two part question
1) These services are going to have to go through the same growth problems all new financial services go through. Not all new financial servers are viable economically, and it's possible that micropayments are not viable.
2) Why doesn't AMEX or Visa offer some sort of micropayment system? They've already got the basics for one right now: it's pervasive, easy to use, familer, and cost effective for many transactions. You just add an aggregator account for micropayments along with a dab of crypto and there you go: instant micropayments.[1]
-jbs
[1] the aggregator account would work like a till. Each micropayment get's tagged and signed by the payee's pubkey. At the end of the month, everybody get's paid and billed, just like they do now. The user can manage their micropayment wallet by adding/removing cash/credit (that way you can't just rob someone blind). The merchent get's the % taken out of the total of the aggregated account for processing fees. You could even use this on vending machines, cardswipe+pin and the charges get aggregated daily instead of monthly (all cryptocash emptied from this machine daily).
Re:Where's Visa? (Score:1)
To my knowledge there isn't any thing else in development. But if American Express at the corporate level were to see value in micropayments and that it would prove useful
Re:Where's Visa? (Score:2)
Why it's that easy, just slap some aggregator here with a dab of crypto there, and a little magic sprinkle here, a handwave there, and presto, instant micropayment architecture. Simple.
AM
BitPass trust and legal problems (Score:5, Interesting)
This is even weaker than Verisign's lower class of SSL certificate. Verisign at least requires a Dun and Bradstreet number.
There are far better seal programs, such as the classic Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval [ivillage.com]. That's an actual warranty. "If a product bearing the Seal proves to be defective within two years of purchase, Good Housekeeping will replace the product or refund the purchase price." "Entrust" doesn't come anywhere near that.
Then there's the question of whether BitPass is a payment service or a reseller. iBill, for example, is a reseller. When you buy something through iBill, the actual "merchant" is iBill, and if you want a refund, you can get it through iBill's customer service operation. Getting it back from the site operator is iBill's problem, which is why they take a big cut and hold back payments for weeks.
BitPass doesn't seem to be set up that way. BitPass is, in a sense, "selling money" That may create problems. Credit card issuers don't allow merchants to "sell money"; that's a loan, which comes under banking laws. Also, the U.S. Government has a monopoly on money. Casinos in Las Vegas used to take each other's chips, but that was ruled to be a "currency" years ago, and they had to stop.
Worse, the BitPass site does not disclose the name and address of the business before asking for a credit card number. They've set things up so it's hard to get a refund. They don't disclose their refund policy. That's a criminal offense in California (B&P code 17538) [ca.gov], where BitPass apparently is located. That's good for six months in jail. Here's the law, which is very specific, so sleazy operators can't hide the required info and claim they comply.
(1) Before accepting any payment or processing any debit or credit charge or funds transfer, the vendor shall disclose to the buyer in writing or by electronic means of communication, such as e-mail or an on-screen notice, the vendor's return and refund policy, the legal name under which the business is conducted and, except as provided in paragraph (3), the complete street address from which the business is actually conducted.
(2) If the disclosure of the vendor's legal name and address information required by this subdivision is made by on-screen notice, all of the following shall apply:
(A) The disclosure of the legal name and address information shall appear on any of the following: (i) the first screen displayed when the vendor's electronic site is accessed, (ii) on the screen on which goods or services are first offered, (iii) on the screen on which a buyer may place the order for goods or services, (iv) on the screen on which the buyer may enter payment information, such as a credit card account number, or (v) for nonbrowser-based technologies, in a manner that gives the user a reasonable opportunity to review that information. The communication of that disclosure shall not be structured to be smaller or less legible than the text of the offer of the goods or services.
(3) The complete street address need not be disclosed as required by paragraph (1) if the vendor utilizes
Re:Your Remarks Worth 10 cents !! (Score:2)
Then it turns out to be a story about an increase in property tax for homeless people.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not really micropayment, but... (Score:1)
No, it doesn't work like that. Member pages get paid for convincing somebody to buy a pass, and then get paid for ads inside of their own member sites. We don't get paid anything for just having visitors with say, an "AdultPass" visit our sites.
Re:Not really micropayment, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not really micropayment, but... (Score:2)
Shirky: "BitPass Will Fail" (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to say I agree with him on this. He makes several very good points about micropayments, free content, and how the Internet shifts the balance of power from publishers to consumers.
Rebutting Shirky (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Rebutting Shirky (Score:2)
Given the current investment climate, I think we'll know either way in about 2 years time.
Why should I sign? (Score:2)
You did not read Shirky's article or did not get the gist of it.
iTunes uses bitpass? (Score:1, Insightful)
Funny, I didn't seem to notice being able to pay with Bitpass on iTunes.
How about Wallie? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nice, but we want to buy from our homes... (Score:1)
Wallie makes it easy to purchase little things under 50 euro's, depending on which Wallie-card you buy.
But you have to buy Wallie in a store. So it will be something like:
"what a cool CD, I am going to get me that right now with wallie"
"oops... my wallie only has 20 euro's, the cd costs 21 euro's"
"oops... it's 10 pm... and its sunday... no more stores to buy new wallie"
Wallie was born out of safety concerns, not out of ease-of-use. You would
Re:How about Wallie? (Score:2)
The Wallie card looks very interesting - along the lines of the pre-paid phone cards, and available in the same places - corner stores, gas stations, etc.
It appears to fulfil the basic requirement (in my opinion) of any micropayment system: anonymity. I don't want records kept of every little purchase I make - a horrible idea.
Only quibble: who's behind it?
Credit cards... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm seventeen. I wouldn't mind paying for stuff if its good, but there's always one thing I run into that I can't do anything about. I'm underaged, so I can't get a credit card. Internet payments would be its only use, so getting one to the family wouldn't be meaningful either. And when I become a poor student, no bank in their right mind will want to give me one either. Nor am I sure I want to even get one, with the trail it leaves behind.
Add to that that I'm not from the United States, and it all amounts to just too much trouble to go through for the possible benefits and warm-and-fuzzy-feeling. What I'd like to see are some sort of bitpass cards that anyone can buy from a store. Before that happens, micropayments won't work on that meaningfully. Internet users under eighteen aren't that far and inbetween, although I admit that most just play CS and no little else. :)
Re:Credit cards... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Credit cards... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Credit cards... (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it's really easy to get a VISA. You can get a checking a
Pay what it's worth (Score:3, Informative)
Agree, other people do it to... (Score:3, Interesting)
There are people who, however, rather would like that only the stores were there in the mall. These people call in the local mall-security or the law-enforcement people, who make sure they are thrown
Re:Pay what it's worth (Score:3, Informative)
But I don't expect to be paid... that's the whole point. I put up my blog [colingregorypalmer.net] because I like doing it, and if someone wants to give me some money for my efforts, then I'm happy to take it. : )
Plain and Simple... (Score:3, Interesting)
Among the geeks, however, many still think that actually *buying* things online makes you some sort of sellout. I have been made fun of before for buying shareware - since the person making fun of me had the same software but didn't have to pay $29.99 for it.
Until both groups (standard users and geeks) come to accept that it is quite ok to spend money for something online, we are going to continue to see resistance to these sorts of services.
-danielrm26
Re:Plain and Simple... (Score:2)
Re:Plain and Simple... (Score:2)
This brings me to my main point, which is that until this mentality is eliminated, services like BitPass will face major resistance.
-danielrm26
Doesn't really take into account small sites... (Score:4, Interesting)
What BitPass is asking is to install a 'gateway' [bitpass.com] to allow their service to work. They claim the service will thus work in 30 minutes [bitpass.com]. In the majority of cases, with small sites, there will however be extra hassle because of the way BitPass has to be installed.
It could even be impossible to install BitPass on cohosted sites, who knows ?
Ofcourse it's still a beta, but they got to do better than that...
yes but... (Score:1)
micropayment has to include the ISP providers too in some form or another; why pay extra for stuff on the internet when you're already paying for an ISP.
i think it's in the hands of ISPs or someone to sort out a deal with them, so that people pay for the content they use through their ISP bill... that may entice people if there's a chance that the bill for some of them might be less than they already pay.
However, a major problem with that might happen to be privacy. Your ISP will have a list of sites
Money Tied Up With One Company (Score:4, Insightful)
The way that BitPass operates is thus the biggest problem here. As much as I chafe at having to purchase the latest installment (great, get me hooked on something free then wait forever to continue it and start charging) and the micropayments idea in general having my money locked up by one company is a problem. Even if there were multiple places accepting BitPass it would still be a bad idea unless they had a clear monopoly. Regardless of whether micropayments are good or bad, BitPass is a terrible implementation.
Logic & Viability (Score:2, Interesting)
Logic & Viability of Micropayments
http://www.gammafrog.com/node/view/2
Bitpass is cool, but I won't buy your blog. (Score:1)
Will people pay with micropayments? The word 'micropayment' itself is so stupid, that I can't believe it really exists. People will inevitably buy stuff on the internet for less than a $1. Everyone will laugh that people even bothered arguing about 'micropayments'.
Do I need statistics? Do I need statistics to notice that my atypical 12-year old sister uses
Then come 100 people that do the same for free. (Score:2)
What is going to work IMHO is to cultivate the loyalty of a small close circle of followers that will be convinced to help once in a while to donate (not pay, donate) in order to allow you to continue providing free content for free.
Say you are charging and you'll be doomed.
Re:Then come 100 people that do the same for free. (Score:2)
Like Geek Culture [geekculture.com] is doing.
micropayment ? we have this for years ! (Score:2, Insightful)
you may have heard about the minitel, some sort of videotext terminal that iss distributed for free.. its nominal speed is 1200/75 bits/s, but you now have faster ways to access it. anyway it was sufficient for its semi-graphic interface.
the main use of the minitel was to connect to some "kiosk" and then type the name of the service you want to access. you don't have to subscribe, eventually you do not pay the services directly. you are billed by the operator (france telecom) according to
BitPass works (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been using BitPass to sell a number of things:
1. My feature film, "Nothing So Strange." [nothingsostrange.com]
2. Open-source clips [nothingsostrange.com] from that film.
3. Songs from "Bat Boy: The Musical." [batboy-themusical.com]
4. My play, "Fair & Balanced." [fair-use.info]
With regard to some questions and comments here about BitPass:
--Ease of use. I didn't install the gateway, but I do most of the listing and configuring the pages to work with BitPass myself. I'm not much of a techie at all (which is why my hands are trembling slightly as I post on Slashdot) and I fou
-1: Spam. (Score:2)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cost of delivery (Score:2)
How do you figure?
Bandwidth is around $2 a gig, at least it is with my web host. Your movie is presumably less than a gig. You said it's a short movie, but let's be charitable and call it 500 megs. 500 megs should set you back about $1.
So why not charge $1.50 for the video online and make 50 cents each time someone downloads it? If it's good, charge a little more, like these guys [nothingsostrange.com] are doing.
Just wondering how you decided t
Re:Cost of delivery (Score:2)