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Windows Operating Systems Software Microsoft Hardware

Windows CE.NET Ported to Xbox 276

Posted by timothy from the oh-why-not dept.
Cutriss writes "Caught this over at Xbox Scene - Windows CE.NET 4.2 has been ported to the Xbox. Artifex, one of the developers of this project, says the following about the status of development: 'The basic kernel subsystem is in place. The IoCtl is about 90% done. ISR/IST is up and working. PCI enumeration happens properly. USB initializes and enumerates devices (but hangs if there's a gamepad connected). Mouse driver loads. Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).' It's a 100% legal distribution, but you'll still need a modded/exploited Xbox in order to run it. Screenshots hosted by Xbox Scene can be found here(1) and here(2)."
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Windows CE.NET Ported to Xbox More

Windows CE.NET Ported to Xbox

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  • So, uh (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:33PM (#7842616)
    is microsoft cool now?

  • Fight the man? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:33PM (#7842617)
    This is exactly the kind of "hacking" that Bill wants to see... porting Microsoft software to Microsoft hardware.

  • Sounds like it's done! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:34PM (#7842625)
    Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).

    So it runs just like winME then.
    • Since it's an X-Box, will it have a Green Screen of Death? Has a pretty sort of ring to it.

      Alt. funny: Man, I thought CE handhelds were bulky.. there's no way I'm fitting THIS thing in my pocket.

      Ok, it wasn't that funny.. meep...
      • Well, I don't know what WinCE does when it bluescreens.

        BTW, about your joke: you should go to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/devices/ default.asp and see that it's not just PDAs that run CE/XPE. Actually, only 1/3 of their platforms are portable.

  • Wow, I would've never thought it possible (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:34PM (#7842627)
    Windows running on Microsoft hardware. What next, MacOS running on something made by Apple?

  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:35PM (#7842629)
    Kudos to the guys who did this, I'm sure it took a lot of work...but do we really need Windows CE on the X-Box? IIRC, Windows 2000 already works, and so does Linux. Is there any specific advantage to CE, aside from its smaller size?
    • Agreed. Aside from the challenge of conducting such an exercise, is there any advantage to this port? While perhaps an interesting project, I am more impressed with the efforts to utilize Linux on the X-Box.

      I certainly will not put anyone down for having the ability to facilitate such a port however. My hat off to them.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:45PM (#7842704)
      Actually... Windows 2000 only runs under a port of bochs, or under vmware in linux.

      This is the first time a windows kernel can be run NATIVE on the box.

      Why?
      Because it was fun.

      --Artifex

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RevAaron ( 125240 ) <revaaron@hotmail. c o m> on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @12:00AM (#7842798) Homepage
      I was a Linux and OpenStep guy, still am, though I use more OS X than OpenStep these days. But my primary computer at home is a Windows CE machine. Why? Sound insane? Nah, well, maybe a little.

      CE is very much a "real OS," though certainly with some limitations. It is tiny and fast. Apps for it tend to be the same. I've found it to be stable, more so than even the Linux PDAs I've owned and used. In a 32 MB ROM, I've got the OS, Office, a pretty darn modern version of IE, and more. In 128 MB of my SD card, I've got a bunch of Unix apps (including perl, LaTeX, wget, ftp, ssh, python, many others), my whole development environment for my chosen language- Squeak Smalltalk, Emacs for CE, VNC, and other apps. I've got a tabbed web browser that simply embeds IE and is a whopping 40 kb.
      • What sort of hardware is this CE box?
        • It is a Sigmarion III palmtop. Kind of like a PDA, kind of like a laptop. I do my coding- including compilation, running, and testing, email (well, ssh'd pine), web, etc etc. I use a regular XP or OS X desktop at work, though.

          One can also run CE on x86 PCs. For a while, I did that on a K6-2 machine that was my main computer, though that has since been made into a fileserver in Linux. Can't fit all of my MP3s and every other file I've had on any a memory card (unless it's a 40 GB PCMCIA HD, though the Sig3

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @12:16AM (#7842893) Homepage Journal
      It's not for anything. It's a cool hack. Why doesn't anybody on Slashdot appreciate these anymore?
      • "Why doesn't anybody on Slashdot appreciate these anymore? "

        Microsoft to Slashdot is like Michael Jackson to the outside world. Microsoft could cure cancer and people'd still be worried about DRM.

        • Re:Why? (Score:2, Funny)

          by sharkey ( 16670 )
          Microsoft could cure cancer and people'd still be worried about DRM.

          Actually, I'd be worried about MS Licensing 6.0 for Meds. The retail cure would only work on one carcinoma, the OEM cure would only work when it came with the carcinogen in the first place. The Open Carcinoma License would allow you to purchase cures for multiple carcinomas using only one Treatment Administration Device, but if you don't sign up for Medical Assurance, and then re-up every 2 years, the treatment would reverse itself and

    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mabhatter654 ( 561290 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @01:14AM (#7843170)
      sounds cool and useful...MS may even grudgingly "approve" of such a measure. Also, CE is much more condusive to the Xbox format... very many Ipaq and other apps would fit quite nicely on an Xbox memory card...or even USB doggle! A touch more work and the xbox would make a great "home station" for net access and email for busy people who don't really want to keep or manage a PC.

      That said, I suspect that Sony will be the first to actually endorse such a model with PS3...although PS2 is more than adequate right now...just share data from Clie's using mem sticks and USB...but you'd need some phone/palm softare to pull it off...on the other hand if sony could strike a deal to use PalmOS as a "stand alone" HD option on PS2 they could have it RIGHT NOW...and run palm apps to boot!

      And of course we have Apple with iPodOS (???) and OSX. And Linux with Zarus. Nokia just needs to find a friend for Symian phone OS (nintendo? + panasonic? we can wish) and we might finally get true appliance-like functionality from our electronic devices!

      PC manufactures have had 20 years to make it work right...time to give real appliance makers a shot at it?

    • Re:Why? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by AaronGTurner ( 731883 )

      It could be useful. Imagine in 2 years time when noone wants an Xbox any more. They could be collected, Win CE installed, and provided with a Windows server using Microsoft's thin client software and used in many ways. E.g. in classrooms, in the developing world, etc. Provided Microsoft's generosity could be prevailed upon to waive CE licensing fees, that is.

      Of course, in theory, Linux could also be used on both client and server to achieve the same end.

  • But why? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Subnirvana337 ( 572385 )
    Hasn't this black and green box endured enough ports? Its a computer we get it, when will it stop? When all O/Ss known to man are on xbox?

    jeez...someone has waaay too much time on their hands...
    • Someone ports OS X to the Xbox, fitting, isn't it.
    • Its a computer we get it, when will it stop?

      OSXbox
    • jeez...someone has waaay too much time on their hands...

      I think it's time better spent than just playing games. I mean, at least these hackers are learning something about computer architecture. If this was done by students, I would bet that they're going to find a more welcoming job market if they've already managed to port an entire operating system to unsupported hardware.

  • We already have Linux working on the Xbox, so why would you need Windows CE.NET?? Who wants to turn their Xbox into an overwight [cowboyneal.org] PDA
  • I mean... why would someone want to use another MS software in Xbox, since you can get along without the MS bugware....

  • Rosetta Stone (Score:3, Funny)

    by Saeed al-Sahaf ( 665390 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:36PM (#7842639) Homepage
    This is refreshing. Microsoft demi-priests cracking their own Rosetta Stone. In a way, it's funny.

  • Cool! So what do we call it? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:36PM (#7842641)
    CeX?

  • Xbox Scene has rather limited bandwidth, so... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:38PM (#7842650)
    Windows CE.NET 4.20 on the Microsoft Xbox *updated*

    >> Artifex & Phoenix, with the assistance and support of OzXodus has released a proof of concept.

    From the readme:

    -Wait wait wait.... Windows? On the Xbox?
    -BULLSHIT! Everyone said it cant be done! Is this for real?
    Yes, this is for real. It's a VERY early work in progress... but it DOES work. Windows CE.NET is a full, "Win32" Windows kernel, designed for embedded platforms. It can run windows applications compiled for CE, CE.NET, PocketPC, and Windows Mobile. It can also run .NET CLR apps, and (with a VM installed) Java. CE versions of Windows Media Player, Flash players, IE, MS Office, etc etc.... This is the real deal.

    -Ok, so, what can we do with it NOW?
    Not much. This is just a proof of concept. The kernel starts, SOME drivers load, the GUI comes up, you can run applications. There is a LOT still to be done before it's very impressive

    -What works?
    The basic kernel subsystem is in place. The IoCtl is about 90% done.
    ISR/IST is up and working. PCI enumeration happens properly. USB initializes and enumerates devices (but hangs if there's a gamepad connected). Mouse driver loads. Keyboard driver loads but is missing a layout, so it's not quite functional yet. A VERY simple video driver is in place (Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet).

    -What still needs done?
    LOTS. Most importantly, the existing 'bugs' need fixed. Keyboard layouts need put in place. The software cursor needs fixed. The date and time is not being retrieved properly... Secondly, drivers need written, ported, or simply put in place. It should be easy to work the NVNET driver in, as it's designed to be easily dropped into an NDIS/RNDIS environment. FATX should just be a matter of adapting the FAT filesystem driver. Gamepad drivers can be ported from the existing windows versions. It MAY (very speculative!) be possible to work in a 3d-accelerated nvidia gpu driver, as CE.NET includes a complete DirectX implementation.

    Also, Focus support is not currently in place (lacking in xbeboot)

    -Why Release now, then? Why not finish these tasks first, and then release?
    I started this project on my own, and got it to this point several months ago Then a LOT of other things started to come up, both with the Xbox, and IRL. I tried to get some other Phoenix members interested, but they were also either too busy with other projects, or IRL. Since then, I've been pondering what to DO with the existing codebase. I finally made the decision to release what I have so far to the public, and see if there were interest. If there is, I'm making an open call for developers, and taking this the way of the xbox-linux project.

    -Can I help?
    YES! Especially helpfull would be people with embedded RTOS experience, and people with experience in writing windows drivers or with the windows driver architechture itself. Just contact me (see below) and we'll discuss what can be done. I may go so far as to set up a sourceforge project to collaborate our efforts.

    -Is this legal to use? Is this legal to distribtue? Am I violating copyright if I host this?
    The stage1 bootloader (XbeBoot) was taken from the Xbox-Linux project, and was written without the use of the XDK. Everything AFTER the stage1 bootloader is either my code (BSP) or CE itself. I submit my code to the world under the GPL. As far as CE itself, here is what Microsoft has to say on the subject:

    (Taken from "Understanding Additional Licensing Rights", Posted: September 18, 2003
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/ce.net/h owtobuy/licensing/addlicrights.asp [microsoft.com])

    "Non-commercial distribution rights grant developers the ability to install a runtime on an unlimited number of devices and distribute those devices to third parties for non-commercial purposes.
    • Everything AFTER the stage1 bootloader is either my code (BSP) or CE itself. I submit my code to the world under the GPL. As far as CE itself, here is what Microsoft has to say on the subject...

      I don't know enough about this to know how exactly the added code and CE interact, but if the added code includes modifications to CE itself (or dynamic linking, beyond basic use of CE through published APIs a la linux kernel modules), this might not be legal. The MS Shared Source license does allow redistribution
    • What can be done with it now?
      Not much. This is just a proof of concept. The kernel starts, SOME drivers load, the GUI comes up, you can run applications.

      Unlike a full featured OS, where the kernel starts, some drivers load, the GUI comes up (or not) and you can run applications...

      • However, a full featured OS works like this:

        Kernel starts
        Drivers load
        GUI comes up (or not, if it's a server that doesn't need a GUI and it's *nix)
        You can run apps well (debatable on XP, but it's still better than this)

        The CEXbox port is like this:
        Kernel starts
        Some of the drivers load, and few load right
        GUI comes up (with problems)
        You can run apps (not very well at all)
  • You don't have permission to access /users.compaqnet.be/cn203909/5/0000271629/noleech. gif on this server.

    The effect continues....
  • Could this say anything about Dreamcast games on an xbox?
  • Those two screenshot links don't work... anybody got a mirror?

  • This is awesome! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dr Reducto ( 665121 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:46PM (#7842711) Journal
    I read what the guy who did this said, and at theend, he says that with this out of the way, we are a few steps closer to getting Windows XP and such ported over. The guy does need help getting together some people who know Windows drivers and such to help him and is considering making this a sourceforge project.

  • I can see the comments now... (Score:5, Funny)

    by PetoskeyGuy ( 648788 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:46PM (#7842714)
    Replace Microsoft Software with other Microsoft Software on Microsoft Hardware -
    - Cool
    - Why Bother
    - How Dumb
    - You Tool
    - But.. That's not Linux!

    But which will be most popular?
  • OK, it's obvious...though I've yet to see anyone else mention it.

    Bonus points: Why work on a closed source version of a propriatory operating system without getting paid?

  • It's sad that's actually an accomplishment (but sadly, it is a feat for programmers).

    Funny in a way. But pretty sad.

    Thanks Microsoft. Hackers are needed to get *your* crummy software on *your* crummy hardware.

    At least Linux goes on pretty much anything.
  • So many people have been asking why port CE, why port anything to the x-box? Why not? It's a hobby. People have fun doing it, and I personally admire the skills these people have. Will it in the long run be beneficial? Probably not. You get experience from doing stuff like this and enjoy it at the same time. Sounds good to me.

  • er... this is fantastic (Score:5, Funny)

    by Osrin ( 599427 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @12:09AM (#7842851) Homepage
    This is great, think of all the applications I can put it to...

    1) I can read email in Starbucks over 802.11b (once somebody is kind enough to port a network adaptor).
    2) I can hook it up to the GPS device and a 29" Telly and get my xbox to give me directions in the car.
    3) I can run pocket Excel on my desk at work, on a huge screen, on those days when my laptop is off for repair.
    4) I can download my contacts and diary and read them on my telly at home.
    5) blah blah blah

    Big is beautiful, why should I bother doing any of these things on a PDA that I keep on leaving around.

    So long as I'm carrying my 29" wide screen TV, my xbox and a network connector I will never again be late for a meeting, or stuck without a friends phone number.
  • Software mouse cursor seems to be failing, so you won't see a pointer, yet

    A nice utility might be to accentuate the mouse cursor for those that use more than one monitor at higher resolutions. I.E., touch the mouse slightly and the cursor flashes.

    It may sound stupid to some, but this would be really useful in my opinion.
    • I remember a piece of software called Cursor Beacon for System 7 back in the day. You would type a keystoke and something flashy happened around the pointer. Haven't seen anything like that for modern OS's, though. And you'd have to make an application out of it nowadays, what with the demise of extensions.
    • I thought there was a tool in the Windows mouse panel that made the mouse give off flashy shiny circles or something, so you could find it on a crowded display.

  • Har har (Score:4, Funny)

    by Error27 ( 100234 ) <<error27> <at> <gmail.com>> on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @12:25AM (#7842945) Homepage Journal
    And people said that Windows wasn't as portable as Linux or NetBSD. What do you have to say now, punks?!

  • Finally a legal reason to get a modchip! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by samdaone ( 736750 ) <samdaone@hotmail.com> on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @12:29AM (#7842971) Journal
    'Nuff said

  • New slashdot cliche? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rob Simpson ( 533360 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @12:49AM (#7843069)
    "But does it run WinCE?"

  • What this means (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phreak03 ( 621876 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @01:18AM (#7843189) Homepage Journal
    Before all the trolls start whine about, "why mod an xbox"
    need i remind you that for well under $200
    you have
    *legaly (sorta)
    -divx player with composite outputs.
    and support to stream for every major streaming protacal, from your network hard drives

    -mp3 jupebox with shoutcast support (xbox media player)
    decent ftp server

    *illigaly
    -a nintendo, SNES, GENesis, gameboy advance, N64 emulator (put a couple thosand games)
    -Can copy games to the hard drive and play them
    have a nice, cool dedicated linux box running gnetoo, mandrake or one of like 3 decent distros

    The hardware is a 733celeron (copermine core, good on power and heat)
    64megs of ram shared between apps, and Video ram
    a modified Geforce 3 core (good enough)

    For those of you that whine, "it can't play burned disks"
    either replace the drive, or buy one that has a samsung drive in it, they play all media just about.
    • Actually, it's a 5.5*133 Celery (as in it has a 133MHz bus, but is otherwise a Celery), as opposed to an 11*66 Celery.

      BTW, you can add two more SDRAM ICs for more RAM in this box.
  • I'd like to convert the nifty remote control to usb for my PC - any one know where I could find a link for that? All those accesories are usb, aren't they?

    So this isn't completely OT, I don't own an xbox, but I'd buy one if it ran beos - windows CE is so 1999. :P

  • Isn't it time start using PNG?!

  • Now if (Score:2, Funny)

    by batlike ( 735980 )
    ..we're going to use the XboX as a PDA, we're also gonna need to invest in new shirts with bigger breast pockets.
  • You keep your xbox running Windows. Someone give me Windows running xbox games. =P

  • This is too funny (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TheCabal ( 215908 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @09:08AM (#7844622) Journal
    Oh, the hypocricy!

    People going on and on about "why bother" porting WinCE to XBox, but ask them the same thing porting Linux to Xbox or other gaming platforms and you best done your asbestos underwear. I guess Slashdotters don't like it when the shoe is on the other hand.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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