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Intel Technology

First Look At Intel Tejas & Socket 775 224

Posted by CowboyNeal from the covert-ops dept.
Anonymous Indian writes "The snoops at Anandtech have unearthed some details and photos of Intel's rumored Tejas 90nm CPU which draws 150 watts of power, a 50% jump compared to Prescott. It's also got an interesting locking mechanism instead of the traditional metal clip from hell for most processors." There's not much info beyond the photos, but it's still interesting to see what lies ahead for Intel.
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First Look At Intel Tejas & Socket 775 More

First Look At Intel Tejas & Socket 775

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  • The both the slashdot sum-up and the linked article fail to explain why, exactly, I should be excited about this.

    • My thoughts exactly. The power consumption is the only thing going for it, and it's understated as it is.

      AnandTech: Here are pictures of the thing. We don't have a clue what it does or how it works, but we presume that the extra power draw is part of Bush's Mars Mission.

    • Re:And this is interesting why? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Ralph Wiggam ( 22354 ) * on Saturday January 10, 2004 @12:56PM (#7937900) Homepage
      The dominant CPU maker is releasing a new CPU and a new socket. That's news for nerds. It may not be the most exciting news for nerds ever, but it's still news. The 150 Watt consumption is somewhat interesting.

      -B
    • Well then, please cease diluting the fine discourse of those who do care about next generation technology.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:44PM (#7938152)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Looks like a German dental tool.

    • Re:That latching thing... (Score:5, Informative)

      by chunkwhite86 ( 593696 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:04PM (#7937950)
      Looks like a German dental tool.

      Actually, the Germans are known for their skill with machined parts and their engineering prowess.

      This looks more like a dental tool from .

      Now before you mod me a troll for bringing up Soviet Russia again, let me teach you something. In Soviet Russia, a manufacturing facility's productivity was measured not by the number of units sold, or by customer satisfaction. It was measured by the quantity of raw materials used. The problem with this, is that quality immediately goes down the toilet, and raw material consumption goes through the roof. A soviet era farm tractor, was so unreliable - but contained so much steel - that when Jonev Vladstov (That's John Doe in Russian) bought a tractor, it was worth MORE if he melted it down and sold the steel than it was as a tractor! That's called 'negative value-add' in the economic world, and that's why those old 'In Soviet Russia...' jokes use role reversal as their humor mechanism - because Soviet Russia really was backwards.

      Intel Tejas. There. Now this post is not off topic.


      • were the late 80's and early 90's, when the ruble was so worthless that people would melt down the various denominations of coins, and get more money back for the metal ingot.

        And at 150 watts, you could probably do the melting on top of one of these new CPUs.

  • So much power (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 10, 2004 @12:50PM (#7937871)
    So much power use from the first 90nm process cpu? There can be only one reason for this... the rumored twin core intel CPU. Let's see how hyperthreading run's on THIS baby!

    • Re:So much power (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      you mean the second? G5...
      • The G5 at 90nm may have been announced by Apple, but it's not yet shipping from what I can tell. Given traditional Apple schedules, it will actually start shipping in one to two months time, or roughly the same time frame as Intel starts shipping their first 90nm processor (Prescott, not Tejas, that's a future chip not scheduled for 9+ months).
    • So much power use from the first 90nm process cpu? There can be only one reason for this... the rumored twin core intel CPU. Let's see how hyperthreading run's on THIS baby!

      Mod parent as troll.

      Hyperthreading and dual core are two different thing. Hyperthreading places two execution units with the same CPU core. It doesn't work very well. Dual core cpu's have two complete cpu cores inside one 'chip' package. Effectively, a dual-cpu machine 'on-a-chip'.
      • I don't see why Intel wouldn't try to benefit from both technologies and offer a processor with HyperThreading AND dual-Core.
        • I can see them trying, but I don't really see it. Hyperthreading as it is generates a lot of extra heat that isn't exactly proportional to the performance gain (I've noticed this on my own 2.8C). I know there are some dual Xeon systems that have hyperthreading enabled, so they must have partially addressed the problem the inquirer put as... [theinquirer.net]

          "An instruction thread might well favour one kind of execution unit, but who's to say the other threads, the ones that are running in parallel with the 'troublesome'

      • wtf? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by autopr0n ( 534291 )
        Mod parent as troll.

        Why should it be modded as a 'troll'? just because it betrayed some lack of knowledge about CPU design? I think your post should be modded as troll.

      • Re:So much power (Score:3, Interesting)

        by javiercero ( 518708 )
        Actually you too are wrong: Hyperthreading allows multihple threads to be active per functional unit. I.e. you could have 2 threads active in a single functional unit, you do not need 2 functional units to have 2 threads active. Hyperthreading does not imply parallel execution as you implied before, it basically means that as soon as one thread stalls in a functional unit there must be at least another thread that can be brought right away to keep that functional unit from stalling.
      • Mod parent as stupid.

        Hyperthreading and dual core are two different things. Hyperthreading places no extra execution units within the same CPU core. It simply splits up the existing execution resources, and adds a few extra registers to keep track of two instruction pointers, etc. It works quite well, for what it does, which is to make better use of a CPU's existing parallel resources. It is not a replacement for SMP.

    • Well, maybe, there have been problems with heat at the 90nm mark, though there are rumors that Tejas might use dual cores [theregister.co.uk] However, the hyperthreading thing would be a bad idea. It would mean that you have 4 logical processors, instead of 2. And with 4 threads running in parallel, there's a good chance that a lot of the time, 2 of those 4 will be identical. All hyperthreading would generate is too much heat.
  • Looks like the same arm I've seen on every other socket motherboard.
    • In the pictures, it locks down on the left side and the mechanism covers the CPU. Not many sockets I've seen in the past few years use that, so you must be seeing some special motherboards...
    • It looks to me that the CPU itself doesn't have any pins on it, just little gold contacts. The motherboard has all the pins on it, and the locking mechanism is really just something to hold the CPU down against those pins to make contact.

      That's quite different from the standard today where the arm locks the pins of the cpu into the socket of the motherboard. I could be wrong, but that's what I think I see in the pictures.

  • 150 watts of? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dave1g ( 680091 )
    Is that dissipated heat?

    If so, ouch! that system is gonna need a huge heat sink or water cooling will be needed.

    I would loves to see standardized water cooling parts for computers.

    That way all you would need to do is buy the hosess and your favorite pump.
    • Bah, that's nothing. My 2.4 GHz microwave oven can dissipate up to 1000 Watts !

    • Is that dissipated heat?

      Unless it emits light, moves rocks uphill, accellerates your car, or charges one whopper of a battery, yes, that's dissipated heat.

      It's called conservation of energy. Here is a NASA page [nasa.gov] explaining it. It's not rocket science, but it is important to understand for building rockets, bicycling, etc. Along with Conservation of Mass [nasa.gov] and Conservation of Momentum [nasa.gov] it forms the trilateral commission that keeps us all from building those "free energy" devices I keep hearing about.

  • tradition (Score:5, Interesting)

    by awing0 ( 545366 ) <adam AT badtech DOT org> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @12:56PM (#7937902) Homepage
    Regarding those metal clips from hell, I've always wondered why Intel and AMD never followed the examples of Alpha, Sun, SGI, etc. machines. They usually have bolt on heatsinks that either bolt the CPU and heatsink together or sandwich the CPU between the mainboard and the heatsink.

    It takes care of the flat head screwdriver ruined mainboard, and there are no clips to break off the socket itself. I'm glad they are finally changing the way x86 sockets work.
    • Regarding those metal clips from hell, I've always wondered why Intel and AMD never followed the examples of Alpha, Sun, SGI, etc. machines. They usually have bolt on heatsinks that either bolt the CPU and heatsink together or sandwich the CPU between the mainboard and the heatsink. It takes care of the flat head screwdriver ruined mainboard, and there are no clips to break off the socket itself. I'm glad they are finally changing the way x86 sockets work.

      Because some l33t h4x0r would over torque the
    • Err, have you ever installed a P4 or an Athlon64/Opteron processor? They DO use locking mechanisms to sandwich the processor between the motherboard and the heatsink!

    • Re:tradition (Score:3, Informative)

      by iMMo ( 61469 )
      The interconnect used for Sun's USIII CPU is not something that anyone at home would be able to deal with. There's a socket, the CPU, then a mylar pad, then a bolster plate and then the heatsink. The heatsink needs to be torqued down with a precise amount of pressure, or else the CPU can't make electrical connection through the socket to the board.

      You need some relatively major tooling just to get it connected in just the right way, with no carpet fibers or hair in between the CPU/Socket or Socket/Basebo

  • Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

    by chunkwhite86 ( 593696 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @12:57PM (#7937904)
    It's interesting to see how what was once consideres "high-end" eventually makes it's way into the consumer desktop stuff.

    For example, this chip appears to use a "pinless" package design. Instead of little pins that fit into the socket, it has little ever-so-slightly raised 'nubs'. These 'nubs' simply sit on top of contact points in the socket.

    This pinless design was being used by Compaq for the Alpha CPU as early as 2000, so this isn't a new packaging technology. The only problem Compaq had with it, was keeping all the little 'nubs' firmly in contact with the corresponding points on the socket. They used some sort of plastic clip design at first, which ended up with a high failure rate - not for the CPU, but for the plastic retaining mechanism itself. That's probably why intel is using that big beefy metal retaining clip.

    I guess intel learned something from all those Compaq Alpha engineers they bought a few years ago.
    • Unless I'm way off, this is what's called a Ball-Grid Array, and yeah, the concept's been around forever. My understanding is that its really hard to mass manufacture these things so that everything lines up and has good connection. And afaik, they're of dubious benefit versus the pin socket we all know and love. Maybe someone who knows more can explain what benefit this new socket has for Intel?

      • No bent pins.

      • Lower vertical profile? (might be useful for things like laptop motherboards)

      • Re:Interesting (Score:2, Informative)

        by CaptKilljoy ( 687808 )
        Unless I'm way off, this is what's called a Ball-Grid Array, ...

        You're way off, I think. Ball Grid Array [ezresult.com] refers to a IC form factor that has a grid of contacts on the bottom of the chip carrier. Each of these contacts is pre-filled [nasa.gov] with a small ball of solder. BGA devices aren't meant to be socketed.
        • Quite correct, and they are almost impossible to inspect to see that the joints are of good quality, and even more impossible to replace if they fail. IMHO an utterly diabolical invention, sadly (mis)used on a lot of motherboard chipsets and other things.

          The safety-critical industries dread the fact that many new CPUs (microcontrollers etc) and other vital things are now only available in BGA.

          It is actually possible to get a device removed from the board, re-balled with solder, and replaced, but after all

    • It is hard to tell from the photos, but if they are really not pins, I anticipate very serious reliability problems indeed. The design of connectors is not something where you can take liberties, and discard all previously discovered solutions to problems. The existing ZIF sockets are designed to positively clamp against the sides of the pin when you actuate the locking lever, the fixed contact as it engages also slides slightly along the pin with a wiping action. All of that is vital, and it is very necess
  • The thing I always liked about Intel chips was their low power absorption and their low heat. Though they're a bit pricy in comparison, AMD chips were power-hungry and thus produced heat as if they had uranium cores.

    Intel chips were great for Mini-ITX cube PCs if you didn't want them to burn, as they ran cool enough to easily run with heat pipe technology. They were even better for laptops, since you didn't have them draining the battery like crazy . On the regular PC front, they would famously run cool ov
    • > Now, it seems like they've lost that advantage.

      I think that depends what the tradeoff is. Why would the cpu have such a high power output from a 90nm process? Either it's a huge cache inside, or there is more than one core. That sounds exciting. It may be very hot running but it has the advantage of space.

      Just which applications this finds use in, I cannot tell.

      a macgirl web cam. live 24/7 [151.197.31.93]
    • The thing I always liked about Intel chips was their low power absorption and their low heat. Though they're a bit pricy in comparison, AMD chips were power-hungry and thus produced heat as if they had uranium cores. Intel chips were great for Mini-ITX cube PCs if you didn't want them to burn, as they ran cool enough to easily run with heat pipe technology. They were even better for laptops, since you didn't have them draining the battery like crazy . On the regular PC front, they would famously run cool o

    • Re:That much power? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Viceice ( 462967 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:21PM (#7938035)
      RTFA! Oh wait, this is SlahsDot.

      Realize that this processor is a Prototype, fabbed on a process that doesn't reflect Intels true capabilities. So criticism as to it's heat dissipation is at best pre-mature and at worst, downright off topic.

    • Mini-ITX [viavpsd.com]boards can't handle Intel CPUs. They are designed for VIAs own EDEN CPU [via.com.tw].

    • Re:That much power? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Hoser McMoose ( 202552 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:29PM (#7938074)
      Err, have you bothered to check the datasheets? The P4 is hardly a cool running chip by any stretch. It may have a wider power consumption range than the AthlonXP, but when the chips were running flat out they sure didn't run any cooler.

      The only reason why P4's used to run cooler than Athlons was because people would stick a 60mm x 60mm heatsink on their Athlon and an 80mm x 80mm heatsink on their P4. Both of these chips consume a lot of power, and both drain laptop batteries like crazy if you use the highest powered parts (Intel actually produces some P4 "mobile" chips with a TDP of 70W!, while AMD's brand new "mobile" Athlon64 chips consume over 60W at full throttle).

      Now, the Pentium M... well that's another story altogether.
  • Did anyone else get an Athlon 64 ad when they opened the article?

  • Tejas? (Score:4, Informative)

    by jotaeleemeese ( 303437 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:07PM (#7937958) Homepage Journal
    He, that is the Spanish (as written on Spain) for Texas.

    The Spaniards write Mexico as Mejico.

    Just a tidbit for your amusement.

  • why it is so .. dirty? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Janek Kozicki ( 722688 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:16PM (#7938008) Journal
    that's my first thought when I saw the picture. Why the CPU is looking so... um.. dirty (looks like corrosion)?
    I'm not an overclocker specialist, or whatever, and really I don't want to be a troll here ;) I'm just curious.

    perhaps answer to this question will be modded informative (as this question itself is not ;)

  • But... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by NeoGeo64 ( 672698 )
    Is it going to be 64-bit? If not, a new chip is really a waste of money.

    By 2006, most everything will be 64-bit, and Intel needs to realize this and stop making 64-bit chips just for the server market.
    • Maybe new systems, corporations, scientists and enthusiasts will all be using 64-bit, but I think the vast installed base of 32-bit hardware and software will guarantee that the platform will not disappear anytime soon.
      • I think the poster is referring to all new computers sold in 2006 will be 64-bit, and that is correct.

        Many offices were using 286 and 8086 machines well into the early to mid 90's. That doesn't mean those machines were actually sold in 1994.

  • How much power? (Score:5, Funny)

    by NeoGeo64 ( 672698 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:26PM (#7938062) Homepage Journal
    1.21 jiggawatts?! Where am I going to find that much power!? It's not possible!!
  • If this is multi core, which I would love. How are they going to find a market segment to charge high prices for ? I want dual. But with either intel or amd its expensive. In AMD's case the board. Intel now at least has hyperthreading which should fix some sluggishness I feel. So what will differentiate a xenon if there are duals in a core ? An extra processor will mean alot less to a workstation or some servers if there is already a dual in a single core.

  • 150 W? (Score:4, Funny)

    by diegocgteleline.es ( 653730 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @01:41PM (#7938131)
    150 W? What does that Tejas thing have, a Electric Chair Inside ?

  • Tejas information (Score:5, Informative)

    by Saville ( 734690 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @02:55PM (#7938671)
    2/27/2003:
    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0, 3973,900185, 00.asp
    10/11/2003:
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/ cpu/display/200310110 84615.html
    misc:
    http://endian.net/details.asp?t ag=Tejas

    So it looks like it will come in in 2005 instead of the original 2H 2004. It'll have 24k L1 instead of 8k or 16k like current and prescott have. When it is made at 65nm insteadof 90nm it'll have 2megs L2 instead of 1meg.

    It should start eventually run as high as 5Ghz. Maybe that is on the 65nm process years from now? Bus speed should be 1066Mhz (266*4) or 1200.

    It should have some new instructions in order to make life harder for AMD.

    Fortunately for AMD Prescott was already supposed to be shipping at 3.8Ghz, but Intel is a bit behind on their road map too :)
  • so that consumers can also cook on them with easy cleanup?
  • Anyone know what they blocked out in the socket picture [anandtech.com]?

    What could possibly be there that they wouldn't want us to see? Or is is that they're not allowed to show us?

    • Re:Blocked Out? (Score:3, Informative)

      by swankypimp ( 542486 )
      Intel distributed ten samples of this CPU, probably under condition that you do not talk to the press. (The first rule about Tejas is that there is no Tejas.) This is likely enforced by lawyers and promises of future access to demo units. I'd guess that each CPU is marked with a number or some other unique identifier: if the ID were photographed, Intel would know who leaked the pictures of its top secret processor and could take action.

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