KDE 3.2.0 Released 650
Quique writes "KDE 3.2 has just been released. The official announcement is available at the KDE site and the source tarballs are being replicated to the mirrors. There are already binary packages for a few distributions. Besides the usual bugfixes and new features, this release has been highly optimized and runs way faster than previous versions. This is a good opportunity for Windows users to migrate to a free desktop."
yes! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:yes! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:yes! (Score:3, Informative)
Fedora - RedHat ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Cheers
Re:Fedora - RedHat ? (Score:4, Informative)
The 3.2 release isn't available yet but I'm sure it will be soon. (I'm running the last beta right now)
Re:Fedora - RedHat ? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Fedora - RedHat ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Fedora - RedHat ? (Score:2, Informative)
If they only could provide easy access (apt/yum) to binary packages for RH9 or Fedora C1
That's the distro's job. The KDE project make it very clear [kde.org] they don't consider binary packages to be their job.
Re:Fedora - RedHat ? (Score:5, Informative)
KDE just provide source packages, which will compile -- with perhaps a little tweaking -- on any setup which is computationally complete enough. Out of the goodness of their own hearts, they link to binary packages that other people have created; but the job of making it easy for non-programmers to install software falls to distributors. Think of it this way: the KDE developers are like farmers, growing basic food ingredients. Meat, milk, eggs, veg, grains. You can get really fresh ingredients from a farm, but you still have to prepare them before you can eat them. And that takes hard work. The distributors - Debian, Red Hat / Fedora, SUSE and so forth - are like chefs, taking those ingredients and preparing them in a ready-to-eat form. Sometimes that limits your options as a consumer; but nobody is stopping you buying fresh ingredients and preparing and cooking them your own way.
If you really can't spell make you could just keep pestering your distributor to provide you with
Not everyone can compile (Score:3, Insightful)
Its sort of like telling them to do 'make world' and laugh as their machine goes up in a puff of smoke..
Excuse me? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Excuse me? (Score:5, Funny)
Friday night:
(a) Even geeks need a social life.
(b) Best time to wreck your social life by trying to evangelise Linux ;)
Re:Excuse me? (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh come on. Geeks find friday night the perfect time for installing KDE 3.2. What else are you doing to do? Wine already runs mydoom[1], and if you are a true geek you don't have much else to do while waiting for the next interesting project.
[1]Something a couple of us did at wineconf last weekend. grabed a copy of mydoom, put it on a linux machine and traced the run. Examined all the files is created/modified (mostly garbage), set the local machine to www.sci.com and watched is try a DOS attack on ourselves. (loopback is well able to keep up). Then we found the magic sequence that the port accepts. We didn't actually finish, dinner got in the way when I left, but we were close.
That is what real geeks love to do in a socal setting.
Re:Excuse me? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Excuse me? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Excuse me? (Score:5, Informative)
If we consider pre installed machines, so does Linux. If you don't - well, I had a lot easier time installing Knoppix than I had installing Windows XP.
autodetects all your hardware (some Linux distros do this yes, but not nearly as well),
A (the only) valid point.
does NOT get you rooted because the security is there if you know how to use it (and not use IE/Outlook),
What you're saying is "If I do all the right things, and keep patching all the time, it's fairly secure.". Please name a modern OS this isn't true for.
does play all the latest games and software which I need (the alternatives suck, try comparing Photoshop with GIMP),
Silly comparison. Adobe costs $650. GIMP is free. For most people $650 is a bit too much to cough up. So yes - most (far from all) software is available. Paying for all the software I need however, would consume most of my income.
does have free and competent technical support available which does not have "STFU NOOB" in its vocabulary,
Again, a silly and very subjective statement. I've found technical linux support extremely helpful and accessible. I don't know where you look, or how you behave, to be treated like that - but I can assure you that similar places can be found when looking for Windows help.
does not require me to devote a significant amount of my free time just to get it installed and working semi-well.
Well, this is pretty much reiterating your first point (sure looks better with a longer list though). But please, tell me how much amount of your free time is consumed by inserting a boot CD and then asking it to install the working system to HD. Granted, if you're on the net Knoppix does ask for some IP config parameters - so that's more than a two step procedure...
I don't have the patience to bother with Linux, so I don't use it, simple as that. People who think everyone can and should switch today are idiots and don't deserve a +5 moderation.
One could of course argue that people who have so strong opinions about how something works, even though they they admit that they don't use it are idiots too...
Re:Excuse me? (Score:3, Interesting)
How is the operating system "out of the box" if it comes pre-installed? What I mean is that given a PC, I can chuck a WinXP install CD in, boot from it, and be somewhat sure that I will have a working system when the install finishes. In my experience, this is rarely true for any but the most newbie-friendly of Linux distros. Though I admit RH9 was a huge step forward in this regard.
What you're saying is "If I do all the right things, and keep pat
Re:Excuse me? (Score:3, Insightful)
5-6 years ago when kde 1.0 was out, a friend of mine told me it was good enough to replace most of the stuff you do on windows. Of course he was far from right, but because that person pushed so hard, I gave it a try.. today I am not using linux on my desktop, but because of me my company has switched all it's server
Re:Excuse me? (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know where you got these fantastic notions...but I can tell you that it's obvious that you did not get them from using either Windows or Linux. So I'll do the point-by-point.
works out of the box (possibly given a visit to Windows Update)
Look, I've installed, configured, administered, and run every version of Windows since 3.1, and not a single one of them ever did anything useful "out of the box." XP is closer than the others have been, mostly because it has a more comprehensive set of builtin drivers....but it's not anywhere near complete. Not to mention the outrageously long/large Windows Update you so dismissively mention...I pity a dialup user who wants to do a fresh XP install. And then there's the antivirus software you'd better go get unless you're crazy. And since you say not to use Outlook/IE, I guess that means a download of some other browser/email client. And since you say Windows is secure (you really mean "securable") I guess that means you expect us to take the time to turn off and tweak a bunch of services.
What was that about "out of the box"?
autodetects all your hardware (some Linux distros do this yes, but not nearly as well)
So...I guess you've never installed Windows? And you're proving that you haven't ever installed Linux. Or at least that you haven't within the last 3 years.
I, on the other hand, have. I can't speak for all hardware, but I can speak for the 25 or so fresh installs I've done in the last 6-8 months, on very standard hardware. I can tell you that I had to go get drivers from someplace roughly 5 times more often during Windows installs. As a matter of fact, I only have 3 devices that required any manual configuration at all in Linux; two video cards and a wireless card. And I'm being kind to windows; I would say that 15 driver downloads is pretty optimistic really. That's only about 1 per install. Seriously, if you want to keep spewing this, take the Pepsi challenge. Grab five systems at random and throw a couple Linux distros on, see what hardware works "out of the box", and then try Windows XP. You'll be damned surprised.
does NOT get you rooted because the security is there if you know how to use it (and not use IE/Outlook)
Now, look...you can have it one way or the other...but not both. Either Windows works out of the box, but gets you rooted, or it doesn't get you rooted, but doesn't work out of the box. Sorry, but that's the breaks. The last time I installed XP on a machine that wasn't behind a firewall, it took less than 30 seconds to acquire a worm. A real pain in the ass, especially since the updates take so long. And also, it's funny that you specify here that you need to install additional software to replace Lookout and IE...
does play all the latest games and software which I need (the alternatives suck, try comparing Photoshop with GIMP)
First off, I'm not going to talk about games. If your computer is a toy, it's ok by me if you want to run Windows. Matter of fact, it's ok with me if you want to run Windows no matter what you do (well, except things like airplane guidance, or nuclear power plants). But the software stack is there for Linux. And quit dissing the GIMP; it's good enough for every single major movie production house. Think Sony Dreamworks would settle for a second-rate image editing program? No, not likely. Truth is, the GIMP lacks only a few features found in Photoshop, and mostly not very important ones. And it includes many features that Photoshop lacks. Methinks you have the same problem here that you have with Linux; you've used Photoshop a long time, and now the GIMP is worse because it's different.
does have free and competent technical support available which does not have "STFU NOOB" in its vocabulary
Whatever. Don't try to push this crap off on me or anyone else who has been hand-held (and who has held hands) on IRC with Linux problems. Sure, there's a few folks who will
Re:Excuse me? (Score:3, Informative)
One small point of contention might actually be the need for anti-virus software, though. More and more, I'm finding that the most popular, commercial Windows anti-virus packages cause numerous compatibility issues, slow down the machine considerably, and *still* don't even catch many of the newer trojan horse programs and virii! It's becoming arguable that if you're a reasonably competent computer user (don'
Re:Now (Score:5, Insightful)
Right....sure thing. I pity the poor fools who modded this "insightful."
1)It is true that a "typical user" is not ready to install, configure, and administrate a Linux computer. However, they aren't ready to install, configure, and administrate a Windows computer either. Now...given a properly installed/configured Windows system as it arrives from Dell, most users will be fine. And given a properly installed/configured Linux system as it arrives from one of the Linux hardware vendors, or from your local geek (assuming he/she's good) most users will be similarly fine.
I know this because I have set up several "typical users" on Linux systems, and they are fine.
2)Also, Mr. Insight, did you pause to consider the audience for the statement that now might be a good time to try a free desktop? You know, the slashdot audience?! This was not a statement directed at "typical users."
Re:Today, not tomorrow (Score:3, Insightful)
grab a mandrake install CD or 2, a brand new pc, and insert disc. turn computer on. choose all the defaults. reboot. use computer. you'll need to know your ISP's ADSL number and DNS, and be able to enter an administrator (root) password at the appropriate time.
it's just the same, and as easy, as installing windows.
Re:Three things... (Score:3, Insightful)
The typical user has several years of experience with Windows.
So, when Windows was released, the typical user had years of experience with DOS. Clearly, no one should ever have switched to Windows. By the way, when you take out this argument, you don't have anything left...studies show that people who haven't used either system find Linux just as easy to use as Windows. Especially if you are a non-English speaker.
It is clearly true that there is more pre-existing Windows knowledge than Linux knowledge.
If you don't like KDE... (Score:4, Funny)
Way faster??! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dude...Not cool. (Score:2)
Hint: Have your morning coffee before you post next time
Let's not forget (Score:2, Funny)
Major release (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Major release (Score:3, Funny)
shouldn't there be two of them?
KDE 3.2.0 Released... (Score:5, Funny)
Well here we go again.
Is it worth upgrading? (Score:4, Interesting)
I want KDE 3.2 in my system!
However, I spent quite some time tweaking my KDE 3.1 settings, and right now it works flawlessly (at least, for my needs)... apparently, there's no need to upgrade.
So, I don't know if I should compile/install KDE 3.2 myself, or wait until my distribution includes it in its next release (I'm using Slackware).
What do you guys think?
Any bug reports so far? (I know it's just released, but that's the wonder of Open Source.... many eyes!!!).
Re:Is it worth upgrading? (Score:5, Informative)
http://download.kde.org/download.php?url=stable/3
Re:Is it worth upgrading? (Score:2)
Best Feature - Kontact (Score:5, Insightful)
Great Job !!
Migrate (Score:5, Funny)
Again?? I believe last week there was a good opportunity too... had something to do with a virus.
Re:Migrate (Score:2, Insightful)
slashdotted already (Score:4, Funny)
Delay This Post ! (Score:4, Insightful)
so be kind, and delay it from the 'hords of slashdot' ... atleast for a few hours...
And the rest of you, use these mirros: (Score:3, Informative)
ftp://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/ftp.kd e.org/pub/kde/stable/3.2/src/ [fht-esslingen.de]
ftp://ftp.rhnet.is/pub/kde/stable/3.2/src [rhnet.is]
They are at least up and fast...
Re:Delay This Post ! (Score:3, Funny)
What do you mean 99% useless to others? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What do you mean 99% useless to others? (Score:3, Interesting)
I see a lot of foolish comments about not being able to do anything useful with a KDE desktop. the only thing you cannot do just as well with kde3.2 compared to winXP is play games. thats it people, nothing more no arguements accepted. so in the corperate areana windows can put it's head between it's knees and kiss it's ass goodbye
Finally, someone who knows what the hell is going on. There are ALOT of companies out there with thousands of employees who basically sit there are enter bits of data into a
Since 1998 (Score:3, Interesting)
So I've been hearing since 1998...
Re:What do you mean 99% useless to others? (Score:3, Insightful)
Screenshots? (Score:2)
Re:Screenshots? (Score:4, Informative)
Let me also point out... (Score:5, Informative)
Article Text (Score:5, Informative)
(announcement starts)
Announcing KDE 3.2
DATELINE FEBRUARY 3, 2004
KDE Project Ships New Major Release Of Leading Open Source Desktop Environment
Splash
February 3, 2004 (The Internet) - The KDE Project is pleased to announce the immediate availability of KDE 3.2, the third major release of the award-winning KDE3 desktop platform. KDE 3.2 is the result of a combined year-long effort by hundreds of individuals and corporations from around the globe. This diverse team has been working successfully together since 1997 to make KDE the leading Open Source desktop software for Linux and UNIX.
As with previous KDE releases, version 3.2 provides an integrated desktop and a comprehensive set of applications that combine to create an environment that is usable for a wide variety of tasks right out of the box. In addition to the many new applications making their debut in KDE 3.2, the veteran applications have been refined and augmented generously. By installing some or all of these applications common desktop tasks such as web browsing, file management, email, personal information management, instant messaging, software and web development, multimedia, education and entertainment can be accomplished quickly and easily. This impressive collection of software is complemented by a recent update to the KOffice integrated office suite.
Reflecting its international team and focus, KDE 3.2 is currently available in 42 different languages. Partial translations into 32 other languages are also available, many of which are expected to be completed during the KDE 3.2 life cycle. With 74 different languages and full localization support, no other desktop is as ready to serve the needs of today's global community.
KDE 3.2 also provides improvements in usability and performance. Noticeable speed boosts in application start up times and webpage rendering together with many interface refinements make KDE 3.2 the most usable and performant KDE ever. Attention was also paid to ensuring that KDE is accessible to those with disabilities. Several accessibility related applications are included with 3.2 and work on integrating accessibility technologies directly into KDE's foundations is ongoing.
KDE has earned a reputation for quality and a comprehensive feature set among its global user base that is estimated to number in the millions. KDE is also proud to be the default user interface for several operating systems including Ark Linux, Conectiva, Knoppix, Lindows, Lycoris, Mandrake Linux, SUSE Linux, TurboLinux and Xandros. KDE is also available as a part of Debian, Free/Open/NetBSD, Gentoo, Libranet, Red Hat Linux, Slackware and Solaris, among others. In addition to these operating system vendors, more and more companies are offering commercial support for KDE, some of which are listed in the business directory of the KDE::Enterprise website. With the release of KDE 3.2, the KDE Project looks to enhance and grow this ecosystem of users and supporters.
Highlights At A Glance
Some of the highlights in KDE 3.2 are listed below.
* Increased performance and standards compliance
o Lowered start up times for applications and hundreds of optimizations make KDE 3.2 the fastest KDE ever!
o Working in concert with Apple Computer Inc.'s Safari web browser team, KDE's web support has seen huge performance boosts as well as increased compliance with widely accepted web standards
o Increased support for FreeDesktop.org standards in KDE 3.2 strengthens interoperability with other Linux and UNIX software.
* New applications
o JuK: a jukebox-style music player
o Kopete: an instant messenger with support for AOL Instant Messenger, MSN, Yahoo Messenger, ICQ, Gadu-Gadu, Jabber, IRC, SMS and WinPopup
o KWallet: providing integrated, secure storage of passwords and web form data
o Kontact: a unified interfa
Thank you! (Score:4, Insightful)
RDP support? (Score:4, Interesting)
Of the three remote protocols I'm forced to use at work with Windows (RDP aka Terminal Services, pcAnywhere and VNC), RDP is by far the best. Internet problems left me with nearly 700ms of latency for a while yesterday... but RDP was still usable. The same can't be said for the other two protocols.
RDP Client (Score:5, Informative)
What about this Kiosk mode I've been hearing about (Score:4, Interesting)
BTW - I actually set up a Linux box for him because of gcompris (which is buggy at times, but pretty neat). Although, his favorite games are Frozen Bubble, Tux Kart, and Tux Racer.
Now would be a good time to convert (Score:5, Funny)
Windows Using Friend: What do I do?
HB: You download the tarballs and-
WUF: That tar whats?
HB: The tarballs and-
WUF: The what balls?
HB: The tar balls and-
WUF: The what whats?
And so on and so forth...
Re:Now would be a good time to convert (Score:3, Informative)
WUF: What's that?
HB: It's called a knoppix [knopper.net] CD. You can run linux and use that KDE thing you hear me blabber so much about without installing anything on your harddrive, and if you like it, you can install it anyway.
WUF: Wow, I'll try that. Thanks!
(from KDE Site) US Mirrors - Not all updated yet (Score:5, Informative)
ftp://kde.us.themoes.org (11 hours)
http://mirrors.isc.org (14 hours)
http://ibiblio.org (28 hours)
http://mirrors.midco.net (8 hours)
http://ftp.us.kde.org (10 hours)
ftp://kde.pandmservices.com (11 hours)
http://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu (11 hours)
ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu (9 hours)
ftp://ftp.oregonstate.edu (24 hours)
http://ftp.rutgers.edu (9 hours)
http://kde.oregonstate.edu (24 hours)
http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu (13 hours)
ftp://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu (11 hours)
ftp://mirror.xmission.com (29 hours)
ftp://ftp.us.kde.org (10 hours)
ftp://mirrors.midco.net (8 hours)
Free? No, not really... (Score:3, Interesting)
The desktop might be free but my time isn't. See, I already own Windows. It's installed, working fine, and arranged just the way I like it. It doesn't cost me a thing as it's already paid for.
If for some reason I was dissatisfied with my Windows experience I would have to get and install a new OS, install this updated free desktop (assuming it didn't come with the distro), download the apps I need to be productive (as a Java developer I could pretty much continue to work without impact), and learn to use the new OS/desktop combo.
All this adds up to money. I have a salaried day job and I do hourly contract work at night, with more hours than I can handle on the contract. Any time setting up a new environment (for no reason) is money directly out of my pocket. And it may even cut into my bzFlag playing time!
Windows XP is quite stable and secure. We've never had any problems in our house. Of course, the hardware router, AV software, and Windows Update help.
On a tangential note, I'm about to dump OpenOffice. What a dog. I gave my wife my copy of Office XP and I've been using OO for the occasional letter or spreadsheet. Even for that limited work I find its performance to be unacceptable. Another driving factor - through the Microsoft Home Use program in conjunction with my day job I can get the latest Office (professional version) or Project for $20 each. Full retail? I wouldn't switch. $20? Oh yeah, I'll pay $20 for improved performance.
Re:Free? No, not really... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then what's the deal with all those viruses?
Re:Free? No, not really... (Score:5, Insightful)
For many here, the effort is the reward itself. This is not an argument that will win many converts from Windows. For others, who have the ability and attitude to accept change very quickly and not be locked into a set way of doing things, making the change may very well be worth it, as they may find (at least I do) that I get things done faster using Linux. No, not the tweaking part (that can consume days at a time!), but the everyday tasks that I use my computer for. But this is STILL a very small cross section of the total desktop users out there.
The fact remains, however, that Linux, KDE, etc. provide a very good desktop experience once installed properly, and it is free. These may not be good enough reasons for virtually anyone to convert over an existing machine, but it sure sounds like a recipe that will lead to pre-installations on new computers. THIS is where all this effort will eventually bear fruit. Corporate environments (where security, customizability, and lack of vendor lock-in are becoming big pluses) are where Free software will certainly continue getting more wins. Plus, a fully functional PC that can be sold without the Windows tax can start to look attractive to home users, too.
Think new PCs, not existing ones. Still, this won't be common anytime soon (I'd say at least a couple more years) before your average computer user will seriously be comfortable buying a new machine with something other than Windows on it. But it will come in due time.
In the meantime, don't let the trolls bother you. For your needs (and frankly most people's needs), Windows is still the correct OS for your computer. Thankfully, this will not be the case for much longer
Re:Free? No, not really... (Score:3, Insightful)
Excellent reason not to use Linux. Others are a need to run MS Office, applications that won't WINE properly, no hardware support for some hardware, and (as we already both know) using Linux can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
The beauty, though, is that all of your concerns will eventually be met satisfactorily by Linux in due time. I don't believe that any Free solution will ever be truly better than a proprietary solution for a typical end us
Re:Free? No, not really... (Score:3, Informative)
You mean, you already license it.
Migration Question (Score:5, Insightful)
Wouldn't Windows users have to migrate to Linux first? Unless I missed something, KDE is not a desktop environment that replaces the Windows GUI on Windows boxen.
Considering that the vast majority of computer users are going to barf at the thought of reinstalling their OS & that most are doing very well just to apply a "recovery disk" to restore their system to its original, store-bought state, I don't think that a pretty new desktop for Linux will do much to encourage the average Windows user to migrate to Linux.
Re:Migration Question (Score:3, Funny)
Is Kopete equal to Trillian? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is Kopete equal to Trillian? (Score:5, Informative)
The main difference between Kopete and Trillian is the interfaces. Kopete tries to be HIGHLY integreated with the KDE desktop, and thus doesn't support skinning. It strictly ahears to the KDE style guide. Trillian on the other hand, looks quite cool with it's skinning, but it doesn't try to blend in with the rest of Windows.
mirror of feature list (Score:3, Informative)
Here are some of the new features:
* Increased performance and standards compliance
o Lowered start up times for applications and hundreds of optimizations make KDE 3.2 the fastest KDE ever!
o Working in concert with Apple Computer Inc.'s Safari web browser team, KDE's web support has seen huge performance boosts as well as increased compliance with widely accepted web standards
o Increased support for FreeDesktop.org standards in KDE 3.2 strengthens interoperability with other Linux and UNIX software.
* New applications
o JuK: a jukebox-style music player
o Kopete: an instant messenger with support for AOL Instant Messenger, MSN, Yahoo Messenger, ICQ, Gadu-Gadu, Jabber, IRC, SMS and WinPopup
o KWallet: providing integrated, secure storage of passwords and web form data
o Kontact: a unified interface that draws KDE's email, calendaring, address book, notes and other PIM features together into a familiar configuration
o KGpg: providing an easy-to-use KDE interface to industry-standard encryption tools
o KIG: an interactive geometry program
o KSVG: a viewer for SVG files
o KMag, KMouseTool and KMouth: accessibility tools for KDE
o KGoldRunner: a new riff on a classic game
o
* Thousands of incremental improvements and bug fixes
o During the development of KDE 3.2 nearly 10,000 bug reports were processed via the KDE Bug Tracking System
o Approximately 2,000 feature requests were also processed, with hundreds of requested features added to KDE applications and components
o An improved configuration system that opens the door to new installation management possibilities, improved roaming support and many improvements to the "KDE Kiosk" environment management system
o Inline spell checking for web forms and emails
o Improved email and calendaring support
o Powerful tabbed interface for the Konqueror file manager and web browser
o Support for Microsoft Windows desktop sharing protocol (RDP)
* Improved Usability
o Reduced clutter in many menus and toolbars
o Many applications, dialogs and control panels reworked for clarity and utility
* Enhanced appearance
o Plastik, a tastefully understated new look, debuts in KDE 3.2
o Hundreds of new icons improve the consistency and beauty of KDE
o Tweaks to the default look including new splash screens, (optionally) animated progress bars, styled panels and more!
* New Tools for Software Developers
o Comprehensive API documentation extended for 3.2
o Language bindings for ECMAScript (aka Javascript), Python, Java and Ruby
o New versions of the powerful KDevelop IDE and Quanta web development suite
o Umbrello brings UML modeling for 11 different languages including C++, Java, SQL, PHP, Python and Perl to KDE
Working Web Mirrors of www.kde.org (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.at.kde.org [kde.org]
http://kde.pandmservices.com/ [pandmservices.com]
http://kde.typhon.net/ [typhon.net]
http://www.se.kde.org/ [kde.org]
http://kde.fredan.org/ [fredan.org]
Re:Trollish comment in the article (Score:2, Interesting)
Some of us geeks actually chose to buy Windows XP, as at least some of the software we run only runs under Windows. Sure, some of it has Linux equivalents, but not all, and until it is all of it, we need Windows.
Yes, it's a catch-22 situation - no software means no users, means no software. One thing has to give before the other will, but I'm afraid that that thing won't be me.
Re:Trollish comment in the article (Score:3, Insightful)
I since switched to OSX which is a nice compromise between hackability and mainstreamdom.
Re:Trollish comment in the article (Score:3, Interesting)
Cubase would not run under Linux.
The latest versions of Rosegarden (http://www.all-day-breakfast.com/rosegarden/ [all-day-breakfast.com]) have proved as stable as Cubase in my experience[1], and the feature set is getting very impressive. Well worth checking out.
[1] Rosegarden is officially unstable, whereas Steinberg ship unstable code as full customer releases.
Chris
Flamebait ? (Score:2, Informative)
I coded 2 Qtopia apps, "ZooZ [killefiz.de]" and "Wine(!) [killefiz.de]", and I sure know Qt as well as my fellow KDE-ers.
I *love* the API : it is really nice to code.
But I am not the average Joe 6pack, hence my comment.
How does this make the above a flamebait ?
Re:Trollish comment in the article (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's face it, the only value of an OS or computer is running the software _I_ want to run. And the desktop is little more than a very superficial interface to the OS.
The whole thing is like saying "now, see, we can give you a dashboard for your car that looks exactly like an airplane dashboard." Uh. And the point is? It
Re:Trollish comment in the article (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe your purpose in using a computer is running Windows apps, most people want to get their work done.
Let's face it, the only value of an OS or computer is running the software _I_ want to run. And the desktop is little more than a very superficial interface to the OS.
The value of an OS is letting you do what you want to do. That may or may not involve running specific software.
The whole thing is like saying "now, see, we can give you a dashboard for your car that looks exactly like an airplane dashboard." Uh. And the point is? It's still a car, and it still can't do what an airplane does. Nor viceversa.
Huh? KDE is not trying to be Windows, its trying to be a useful desktop. One factor in being a good desktop is being able to look like Windows, so that many people will find it less difficult to switch - but its not its purpose.
The same applies to Linux vs Windows. Repeat after me: putting a Windows desktop manager on Linux, doesn't make it a Windows substitute. And viceversa, putting CDE (or a clone thereof) on Windows, doesn't make it a Unix workstation.
KDE is not a Windows(TM) desktop manager.
A good desktop is a substitute for Windows.
;) That'll do Linux a world of good.
But even if we're discussing desktop makeups: does Linux now have CUA guidelines? Did people start actually sticking to the same behaviour for their widgets? Did people actually start testing their interfaces with 100 dpi fonts? Etc.
In the Free Software/Open Source world - such tests come for free. People use the software with all sorts of configurations and report problems.
Not to mention Qt (And other modern toolkits), unlike Windows, uses pure logical layouts and handles font sizes/etc very well.
Because changing the desktop means very little, when Joe Average's day still involves dealing with 10 different programs, using 6 fundamentally different widget sets, 8 fundamentally different keyboard shortcut sets, and 4 different ways of even persisting his preferences.
That's exactly the purpose of KDE. Creating a consistent GUI to do all those things. KDE is slowly getting rid of the GUI concept of "application", integrating capabilities to run software in contexts of all apps and windows (KPart/IOSlave technologies). KDE also has a very consistent default keyboard shortcut setup.
KDE is not about Gtk+ integration and consistency, but about internal integration and consistency (even though some projects to similarize do exist).
A lot of Windows's or a Mac's appeal doesn't come just from the way the desktop looks, nor from their particular flavour of widgets. It comes from the fact that everything running on it has the same standardized interface.
KDE is now more uniform and consistent than Windows and the vast amounts of inconsistent 3rd party apps. As for Macs, I haven't tried - but its probably hard to force UI guidelines/etc on 3rd party companies as you can force them with Free Software (simply modify any inconsistent application to follow the guidelines).
The way a Windows scroll bar or file open dialog works isn't perfect. (I actually prefer the Motif scroll bars.) But you can learn to use it _once_ and then apply that knowledge instinctively in all programs, from now until kingdom come.
Oh, I haven't seen my KDE scrollbar changing across applications.
Basically what I'm saying is: KDE is good and fine, and optimizing it doesn't hurt, but... IMHO what would really do Linux a world of good is enforcing a consistent interface across _all_ widget sets. Drag the good Qt, KDE, Gnome, Motif/Lesstif, GTK, etc people into a room, and don't let them out until they can aggree on a common interface standard
You can always use themes and such to make Gtk+/KDE look and behave similar. However, you're really supposed to be able to get along with just one of the toolkits - not having to worry about such inter-toolkit consistency.
Re:Trollish comment in the article (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe your purpose in using a computer is running Windows apps, most people want to get their work done.
Indeed. Windows does _one_ thing very well: running Windows software. It's damn good at it. And there's one helluva lot of Windows software out there.
And all I'm saying is: before taking a running leap to conclusions like "now more people should switch to Linux", please also base it on whether they'll still be able to run their old software. Or a reasonable clone thereof. Not just on how the KDE desktop looks.
That kind of leaping to conclusions is really the only thing I have a problem with there.
The value of an OS is letting you do what you want to do. That may or may not involve running specific software
Unless what you want to do is heating the room, or such, it does involve running software. Even if all you do with your computer is compiling the kernel and running a proxy for your home network, you're already depending on some very specific software: gcc, make, squid, etc.
Switching to a system which doesn't have those, nor something which is _very_ close to a clone, would mean a lot of inconvenience. Even if just for the learning curve. Even if the desktop was an exact clone of your KDE desktop, these programs would still be pain enough.
In the Free Software/Open Source world - such tests come for free. People use the software with all sorts of configurations and report problems.
Not to mention Qt (And other modern toolkits), unlike Windows, uses pure logical layouts and handles font sizes/etc very well.
I'll admit that Qt does handle font sizes very well. Other toolkits and programs don't. And much as I'll want to believe that every possible configuration was already tested and debugged by millions of volunteers, in practice for most programs... well, they must have been tested and debugged by people who love 5 pixel tall fonts ;)
However, you're really supposed to be able to get along with just one of the toolkits - not having to worry about such inter-toolkit consistency.
That is a good and noble ideal, but I just can't see it happening any time soon. Most often than not, whatever program I really wanted to use, chances were that it used a whole different toolkit. Sometimes its very own.
E.g., the Gimp was still based on GTK last time I've tried it. If there's a KDE clone or port, it must be newer than that. E.g., sometimes the easiest to use for what I needed (e.g., just making a dumb dungeon map on a square grid) was xpaint, and AFAIK it's neither Qt nor Gnome.
E.g., while both KDE and Gnome come with their own terminal apps, the one that worked the best (or was the easiest for me to get working) with some apps was xterm.
E.g., Netscape 4 always was a Motif application. (Yes, I know, I should have used Mozilla. Never worked that well for me, though. And it also used its own widgets, it wasn't Qt.)
I.e., it's not that your KDE scrollbar changed between KDE apps. It's that at the same time I'd have apps on the screen with: KDE scrollbars, GTK scrollbars, Motif scrollbars, plain old xterm scrollbars, and some 2-3 custom scrollbars. Each acting differently.
I.e., again, this is not against KDE or Linux as such. I'm just saying that it would be nice if enough people could sit together (even if virtually on a mailing list) and work out a common set of guidelines.
Just, you know, a wish.
Re:Gentoo E-build? (Score:5, Informative)
Go to
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7922 Jan 18 23:35 kdebase-3.0.5b.ebuild
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3971 Jan 13 12:40 kdebase-3.1.4.ebuild
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3630 Jan 29 08:42 kdebase-3.1.5.ebuild
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3084 Feb 2 07:26 kdebase-3.2.0.ebuild
You'll have to unmask it, so see The Masked Packages FAQ [gentoo.org] at Gentoo.org.
Re:Gentoo E-build? No files to be seen. Yet. (Score:5, Informative)
emerge -u kde
Calculating dependencies
>>> emerge (1 of 17) kde-base/arts-1.2.0 to
>>> Downloading http://ftp.easynet.nl/mirror/gentoo/distfiles/art
2
--14:28:58-- http://ftp.easynet.nl/mirror/gentoo/distfiles/art
=> `/usr/portage/distfiles/arts-1.2.0.tar.bz2'
Reso
Connecting to ftp.easynet.nl[195.86.128.57]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
14:28:58 ERROR 404: Not Found.
Sit back and watch it try all the mirrors it knows. Noone has them. Yet.
Re:How faster? (Score:4, Insightful)
To each on his own I guess...
Re:How faster? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How faster? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to diss your choice of XFCE4, though - that's my choice, albeit on 1997-era hardware
L
How did this got modded up ? (Score:5, Insightful)
XFCE for me...
Being that KDE (GNOME, etc) have different aims than that of XFCE, I think its totally resonable that KDE and friends take a bit longer to load.
Sunny Dubey
Re:How did this got modded up ? (Score:2)
It feels like my machine (2xAthlonXP@2GHz, 1GB RAM) is straining to get KDE going. I'm slowly working on getting my wife to switch over from Windows, but until that happens I must dual-boot, and I don't want to be sitting around for an extra thirty seconds. Windomaker startup is practically instantaneous on this box - I don't get 30x the functionality from KDE for my more-than-30x-the-startup-cost.
I always curse the first time I sign on an account and forget to set the window mana
Maybe some help on the way (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How faster? (Score:5, Informative)
Time it took to go from off to clicking on pretty icons in Win2K on the same machine: Well over a minute, possibly two. Can even play movies with mplayer without a skip that would be unwatchable in Windows.
More than fast enough for me.
Re:More free? (Score:2)
KDE is absolutely, positively 100% free software as defined by the FSF/GNU.
Re:More free? (Score:4, Informative)
Not anymore.
Initially KDE was a fully GPLed desktop enviroment that used a proprietary toolkit (QT). Since then, QT has been released under a dual license (QPL/GPL), and is considered to be Free Software, so that particular issue is resolved.
I'm personally glad there were licensing issues intially. It's the entire reason Gnome was even created, and competition is always good.
Re:More free? (Score:4, Interesting)
Miguel has said (in public) the following:
* KDE is what convinced him that a Linux desktop was doable
* He wanted GNOME to be 'just like KDE'
Both in interviews around 1997-1999, IIRC. Feel free to search for it, but my memory of the events is clear.
Re:More free? (Score:2)
.
Gnome's a good desktop and continues to evolve. However, 3 years is a long time and KDE might be worth another look. On the other hand, I understand there is a push to get the two desktops to "work and p
Re:Windows already comes with a free desktop (Score:4, Insightful)
Correction, [windows desktop] is included at no extra cost with the Windows kernel. It's not free, you have to pay for it if you plan on acquiring it legitimately.
Your 'bastardisation' of the word free shows that the world of advertising has been a complete success. "Buy one get one free!" No, you get two for the price of one, but one is not free. You still have to pay. Anything which requires an exchange of something is not free.
So, technically, you're using a bastardised definition of the word "free".
Also, it's worth noting that Free Software is a term (note the capitalisation) used in relation to, well, Free Software. So the usage of the word Free in the context of Free Software like KDE makes perfect sense and is not a bastardisation of the word "free", but more alike the usage of a word describing a product. Like Windows: I have lots of windows but I never use Windows.
Re:Windows already comes with a free desktop (Score:5, Interesting)
Free (gratis) means no strings attached here so if someone sais "Buy one, get one for free" You can actually go in and ask to have the "free" one and they can't deny You that. If You know your rights.
Naturally noone in their right mind uses the word "gratis" in ads anymore here.
One could only hope that our government would disallow more bastardisations of words (and standards).
Re:Windows already comes with a free desktop (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, consider this:
Somebody has to be working on coding the Internet Explorer, and they definitely get paid.
Where do you think the money comes from?
Conclusions? That's right, you don't get it for free.
Re:Packages for Debian?? (Score:5, Informative)
http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianKDE
It should be going into sid fairly soon. There have been lots of CVS commits on the 3.2 branch and the matainers have made nosies about having a version ready for sid on time for the relese of 3.2.0
Re:Packages for Debian?? (Score:3, Informative)
deb http://download.kde.org/stable/latest/Debian/ stable main
Then:
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
Re:You can get them (Score:3, Informative)
Sid has some of the most recent packages and is definetley more up-to-date than Suse, Redhat and the likes (and is still "Debian").
Uh, sorry, I forgot: Dont feed the trolls!
My mistake...
--
Hey man, this is Slashdot (Score:3, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:USB 1.0 (Score:4, Insightful)
How old is the distro that you tried? I'm using a USB mouse just fine, and I'm running SuSE 7.3! (Read: ancient version no longer even supported) Back when I installed it the first thing it did was detect the mouse automatically. Plus my very new HID complient gamepad worked, all in a 1 1/2+ year old distro.
KDE STILL refuses to work with my optical mouse. No endless editing of config files has fixed this.
Methinks your distro sucks the dogs' balls.
I am not going to write a chipset driver to get this OS to work.
No need to. USB has been part of the kernel for years.
Switching to a P/S 2 mouse fixes the problem, but I am not willing to swap mice just to run Linux.
Fair enough, get a recent distro. If my distro that shipped with the 2.4.10 kernel can use it, then your distro either sucks or is horribly outdated.
Maybe in 5 years Linux and KDE will be good enough to supplant my XP install.
KDE doesn't touch the hardware, nor is it really part of the OS. It's just another program, one of a very VERY large number of programs thrown together to create the great clusterfuck that is a thousand different distrobutions. If you try Linux on one distro and it sucks, then it may just be that your distro sucks. Try another distro. Hell, go grab a copy of Gnoppix or SuSE live eval or something, I'm willing to bet that your mouse will work perfectly from the get-go.
And who's the schmuck that modded the parent as troll? Due to GNU/Linux's design (kernel from here, compiler from there, toss that desktop on it, etc), such issues are not only going to happen but are bound to be semi-common. That's not a troll, that's a guy who tried it, couldn't use a basic part of his system, got confused by how "not like Windows" it is, and said "screw it". People with such experiences not only exist, but are very common. Either way, welcome to Slashdot, where anything remotely negative about our favorite little son of a Fin is automatically a troll.
Re:windows users NOT (Score:3, Funny)
Re:windows users NOT (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:windows users NOT (Score:3, Interesting)
The other market of regular computer users is the business/corporate users, and if they want to, I am sure their IT staff can compile KDE for them.
Other than that, people who would download and compile KDE already know a bit about linux, and how its softwa
Re:I've been using it for the past week (Score:5, Informative)
- rewritten tab support
- a lot faster
- better standards compliance (many patches from Safari)
It's replaced Firebird as my main browser. I can't say that Konqueror renders as many pages as good as Mozilla yet, but it's getting there. Hopefully with Apple's Safari/Webcore 1.2 coming out in a few months and more syncing between KDE and Apple, Konqueror in KDE 3.3 is going to be great.
Re:Kde nothing but a way for QT to sell licenses (Score:3, Informative)
So, you want to develop an in-house software, right (that's what I assume the "internally" means)? In that case you do NOT have to buy Qt-license! The GPL says that code that is not released to the public (in other words: in-house software) do not have to have it's code released!
If I wrote a Qt/KDE-app that me and my GF would be using, I would