A New Face For Robotics 219
tanmay writes "Android technology has moved a step forward with the creation of a high-tech polymer called 'f'rubber,' which resembles human skin. Its creator, David Hanson has implemented it in a robot called Hertz, as this report from CNN gives us the details. Another question that the report brings up is the need to make robots resemble humans. Ray Kurzweil thinks Hanson's work is significant because realistic facial movement will play an important role in the way future androids respond to humans, and has the following to say, 'Intelligence significantly below that of normal humans stands out more with a robot that looks strikingly human. This creates the impression of a human with impaired intelligence, which may strike some as disturbing.'"
Frubber? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Frubber? (Score:2, Funny)
Oh, wait, that's Flubber...
Re:Frubber? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Frubber? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:3, Funny)
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:2)
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:2)
Mostly because the original was called "The Nutty Professor" and not "Flubber", even though the plots are the same.
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:4, Informative)
The original "Flubber" movie was called "The Absent Minded Professor". I should know. My parents always called my by that name to poke at my absent mindedness.
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:2)
You're right, my bad. Freudian slip.
My point still stands though that the original movie was not called Flubber while the remake was, thus most people's mind shoot to the remake when thinking "flubber".
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:2)
My point still stands though that the original movie was not called Flubber while the remake was, thus most people's mind shoot to the remake when thinking "flubber".
I suppose. I still think of the prof in his car, or shooting the three point dunk whenever I hear "flubber". *sigh* Lousy remakes.
Robin Williams? (Score:2)
Huh... learn sumfin new ev'ry day on Slashdot.
Re:To paraphrase another Robin Williams film (Score:2)
Or, rather: Robin Williams remade the Absent Minded Professor? It looks like I need to watch more TV, I'm losing touch with pop-culture.
In the USA, that'd be a plot hole, Bob. (Score:4, Interesting)
Your request for human status has been denied.
Workaround in the USA: make a corporation owned by the robot's "family" that owns the robot's hardware and owns everything the robot "owns." Then you get a "person[] ... naturalized in the United States" and thus, under the corporate personhood interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment, a "citizen[] of the United States."
Re:In the USA, that'd be a plot hole, Bob. (Score:2, Funny)
Looks pretty good... (Score:5, Funny)
That "f'rubber" looks pretty good in the initial testing phases. Not 100% human-like [sltrib.com] but close.
Terminator: T-600s had rubber skin... (Score:2, Redundant)
$100... (Score:5, Interesting)
...says that the first practical use of f'rubber will be in the sex aid industry. How long before we see Stepford Whores?
Re:$100... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:$100... (Score:5, Funny)
$100.. says that the first practical use of f'rubber will be in the sex aid industry
and
realistic facial movement will play an important role in the way future androids respond to humans
Disturbing? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Disturbing? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh yes it IS! [usatoday.com]
Re:Disturbing? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Disturbing? (Score:2, Insightful)
Too close to human? (Score:5, Funny)
-Charles
mmm wire. (Score:5, Funny)
The Uncanny Valley (Score:5, Interesting)
Which Side? Re:The Uncanny Valley (Score:4, Interesting)
This is going to be really tough.
I would push the other way, toward "unfamiliar but intriguing." Make them clean and symmetrical, out of shiny materials.
Stefan
Re:Which Side? Re:The Uncanny Valley (Score:5, Insightful)
For robot designers, then, the goal is to prevent you from associating with their creations those same problems you already associate with artificial intelligence. Instead, they want you to be comfortable with it, but also forgiving in the same way you are with a child or otherwise intellectually lacking individual (assuming they're not an asshole).
Consider this: suppose, when checking in at the airport, you were greeted by a fembot that seemed entirely human externally. When you speak with her, you may eventually realize she's artificial (assuming you dont notice the dozen other, identical, fembots performing similar tasks for your fellow fliers) but at least at first you're going to forgive her more difficulty ("I'm sorry, could you repeat that?") than you might with a simple computer terminal.
Of course I'm neither a sociologist nor an engineer, so this is all my interpretation of the situation, as opposed to speaking first-hand.
That said, I think one of the coolest uses for this will be for prosthetics for humans: imagine if your false hand could look perfect, even if it doesn't move perfectly? Even more extreme, imagine if the fake skin covering a portion of your face (which is attached with careful glues/snaps/etc.) looked entirely realistic?
Re:Which Side? Re:The Uncanny Valley (Score:4, Insightful)
If they built robots in actual human corpses, people would be horrified. If they built robots in bodies that are indistinguishable from human corpses, people wouldn't be able to tell. In order for people to not freak out, they have to think either that the things are real live people or that there isn't a human body involved.
Even aside from this sort of perception, I think people would be more disturbed to interact with an intellectually lacking individual, particularly one who additionally does not act quite human. Even actual humans with autism or Tourette's tend to disturb people who aren't used to them.
Re:Which Side? Re:The Uncanny Valley (Score:2)
Here's a strange concept. There is a medical condition called anencephaly, where a person is born without a brain. If robot manufacturers wanted to save themselves a lot of manufacturing costs they could tinker with human DNA and grow bodies without brains and then implant robot brains in the empty skulls. You would have a completely realistic robot. If the AI was good enough you would be unable to tell a robot from a human without s
Re:Which Side? Re:The Uncanny Valley (Score:2)
Re:Which Side? Re:The Uncanny Valley (Score:2)
Are you suggesting that this guy [bitwaste.com] has hope, after all?
Call the lawyers ! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Call the lawyers ! (Score:2)
By the way, folks, the "Uncanny Valley" idea is explained at some length in the (RTF)A. Kudos to everyone raking in karma by mentioning it anyway, though...
Prosthetics (Score:5, Insightful)
Artificial limbs can be made to seem more lifelike with such substance, making them less obtrusive for those who use them.
Perhaps they shouldn't try so hart to be human... (Score:5, Informative)
New Scientist recently covered this as well (Score:5, Informative)
"Most people doing social robots believe that human faces will turn people off and will disturb them. I think that's ridiculous," Hanson said. "The human face is perhaps the most natural paradigm for us to interact with."
Most experts disagree. They cite one of the principles of social robotics, the so-called "Uncanny Valley" theory.
First described by pioneering Japanese roboticist Masahiro Mori, the theory goes like this: humans have a positive psychological reaction to robots that look somewhat like humans. But if a robot is made to look very realistic but somehow isn't quite right (it has an odd smile, or it doesn't blink, for example) it seems grotesque instead of comforting.
Re:New Scientist recently covered this as well (Score:3, Interesting)
from the Houston Chronicle Burning question Should robots look human? [chron.com]
Re:New Scientist recently covered this as well (Score:2)
I do find it highly odd that some people have used this theory as their reason to avoid this research, at least one good point of this research is to help prove or disprove it. Fine with me. It doesn't matter to me what most experts believe because experts can be highly qualified, reputable and st
New RealDolls coming soon? (Score:2, Funny)
Dr. Who (Score:5, Interesting)
A door is ajar (Score:5, Informative)
OK, which fscking door is it?!?
Also, this would start the instant the door was opened with the key in place. Had it dinged a couple of times first, then said "Driver's door ajar" or "Front right door ajar" (or for you who drive on the wrong side of the road, "Front left door ajar"
Re:A door is ajar (Score:2)
Re:A door is ajar (Score:4, Funny)
A friend of mine was a mechanic for a Datsun dealership at the time. As this was long before affordable digital samplers (confined to machines like the Fairlight CMI at the time), the voice was supplied by (believe it or not) a very rugged form of record player. It was made out of a hard plastic and had (I believe) a sapphire needle.
My friend tired of the English voice, and managed to get replacement "records" for his car. His favorite was the Japanese woman, but he also had a male German voice telling him "Achtung! Die Tur ist angelehnt!"
Re:Dr. Who (Score:4, Interesting)
i was lucky enough to be in possession of one of these 'freak' cars for awhile. 1984 Nissan Maxima. Once my friends learned that it 'spoke', they would go to no ends to to hear that metallic (female) voice.
I loved driving down the highway only to suddenly hear, "right door is open".
It was the hight of coolness.
On the otherhand, my fuel gauge was sticky. So, even though I knew I had 2 gallons and ~40 miles left to go, I would be bombarded every 5 minutes with "fuel level is low".
THAT, the sub-par 'intelligence' that thought that i was the stupid one, was much much worse than the freaky metallic-death drone of my constant female copilot, which was actually pretty kick-ass.
And don't get me started on that piece-of-shit self-bagger at the grocery store.
Re:Dr. Who (Score:2)
[ob Eddie Murphy reference]
Hey man! Somebody stole your batt'ry! I say we go get the mothafucka!
Re:Dr. Who (Score:2)
this makes way for... (Score:2, Funny)
Astro Boy, Ahoy! (Score:4, Informative)
I barely remembered the show . . . but was curious enough after the 50th Anniversary noise last year to pick up the first volume of the collected comics. (I think Dark Horse is publishing them.)
The B&W art was very stylish and lively, but the stories were kind of juvenile.
One thing stood out**: In the beginning of the Origin Story, we're shown a brief history of robotics. The big breakthrough that made robots acceptable in everyday life:
Lifelike rubber skin!
Stefan
* Yeah, yeah, his real name is "Mighty Atom."
** Well, one other thing stood out. Astro Boy had a machine gun in his butt. Man, that's freaky.
PopSci article (Score:5, Informative)
Heard Ray speak last week (Score:5, Informative)
The coolest part was that his talk was a virtual talk - he was sitting at his office in Boston and was beamed over to a conference hall with ~2000 people. They had this curtain setup with a translucent concave reception dish that caught a projected video signal - I swear to god, from the back of the room, the only way that you knew he was a hologram and not a real person was that he was 'brighter' than the guy next to him. Even better, was that they had this camera that projected the people speaking onto a huge screen auditorium-type display and when you looked at that there was no way to tell that he wasn't physically there. The only thing that gave him away was the occasionally interrupted audio (must have been VOIP). I don't know if the video signal was analog or digital but I suppose it could have been either.
The core of his talk was that science in general (and machine AI in particular) is advancing 'exponentially' - that each new innovation provides us with new tools to accelerate progress. Cool shizzle. According to him, we'll see some incredible advances in the next 10 years.
Human skin is all well and good, (Score:3, Funny)
Does it have an emotion chip?
Does it have an evil twin?
Now THAT'S an android.
Why bother looking human (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider movies like Toy Story, where they have animated humans that they've tried to make look real... of course it's easy to tell that they are not real, and in fact they have an element of unreality and unbelievability about them. I would connect more with a straight cartoon character, where there is no attempt to make them look real then I would with something that is trying to be real, but isn't quite.
Re:Why bother looking human (Score:3, Interesting)
Having robots with human features can enhance its ability to communicate. A prof from Carnegie Mellon gave a talk about museum robots [216.239.57.104] who roamed a set area offering tours etc. The robots were more successful in both getting and holding peoples' attention if they were programme
trebliD (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm Hertz makes for a good last name, but what about a first name? It should be something celestial.. timeless... Oh, I know, how about Uranus?
Breaking news: geek gets laid (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Breaking news: geek gets laid (Score:2)
I see you have your Autoflame option set to +10
Re:Breaking news: geek gets laid (Score:2)
Re:Breaking news: geek gets laid (Score:2)
Due to an unfortunate soldering accident he is now known as.... Soldermember.
Re:Breaking news: geek gets laid (Score:2)
Uncanny Valley-ness, not F'rubber is the issue. (Score:5, Interesting)
In the article they mention the 'Mori Uncanniness' problem- there is a point that is the 'most anthropomorphic' you can get, before the thing becomes about as pleasant as santorum [spreadingsantorum.com]. IANARS, but the RS's at CMU's Robotics Institute [cmu.edu] state in A Survey of socially interactive robots [cmu.edu]
FWIW There are many more issues than just cannyness, and that paper gets into a lot of em...
Re:Uncanny Valley-ness, not F'rubber is the issue. (Score:2)
That's not an original observation. The computer graphics industry struggled with that problem for most of the last decade, and made it out the other side of that valley a few years ago. The better film CG houses have that problem pretty much solved. Game CG is still working on it. It's
I'm worried (Score:3, Funny)
check out my sig (Score:2)
Impression of human with impaired intelligence.. (Score:5, Funny)
Umm.. SCO Management anyone?
-- Jim.
Actually... (Score:2)
You'll put any face you like on them, at any time, and there will be no need for prosthetics.
Mirror, mirror, on the wall....
oh brother artificial droids of mass disruption (Score:2)
They've perfected they voice [washingtonpost.com], and they're claim they have perfected the face [cnn.com]. So what happens when we don't know things such as:
Real President or clone (not that in this office it matters
Real Osama or clone
Real Arafat who just bombed a synagogue or clone
On a serious note though, these types of things should be left alone. On the one hand they may seem cool, but they leave a lot of room for abuse.
Just imagine the field day say a bank robber could have robbing banks while his clone is parked in front
Hello? Geek To Girlfriend?! (Score:2)
Oh yeah, and the robot has less-than-perfect english skills, too.
Like his previous project, K-bot, Hanson sculpted Hertz to resemble his girlfriend.
Should gf be worried? (Score:5, Funny)
Like his previous project, K-bot, Hanson sculpted Hertz to resemble his girlfriend.
This is either the sincerest form of flattery, or he's obsessively building a replacement for his girlfriend whose behaviour is controllable, and governed by logic.
It sort of makes you think...
Re:Should gf be worried? (Score:2)
My advice? Spend time making the robot resemble Elizabeth Hurley or someone instead. He might find it more useful.
Re:Should gf be worried? (Score:2)
Really. I thought it was supposed to be a man's face. After I read it was modeled after a woman I looked again. Nope, still looks like a man, man.
Re:Should gf be worried? (Score:2)
KFG
Why Are We Even Afraid? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why Are We Even Afraid? (Score:2)
Besides, there's a huge margin between making some advances in semiconductor technology to increase memory and making the kind of advances in software design, neuroscience, AND hardware to develop a human-functional android.
I don't contend it's impossible, but I don't believe we'll see it in our lifetime.
f'rubber has been around for a while (Score:2)
All I ask for... (Score:2)
The last one I saw was a clip from CES or something in January. It was some completely Queer Eye robot bopping to some sort of technowhatsis computer music. Yeesh. And no more robot pets.
Just get the hunter/killers online already.
Re:All I ask for... (Score:2)
I can handle robotic pets when they become a good bit better than an Aibo, but dammit, I'll shoot somebody if I ever see a DigiPet or its ilk again.
Who needs girls?! (Score:2)
So... It looks like his girlfriend, it can move it's face... If it can make an O with it's mouth, I'd REALLY start to think weird things. Oh hell, I'm thinking weird things now.
Crude, yes. Funny, I think so.
got it wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
If the computer looked like something else, subconsciously you wouldn't have the direct link to appearance to use as a reference for the machine's smarts
Do you have any trouble identifying when a human obviously has low intelligence? no. Would you have trouble identifying when an android has low intelligence
see, nothing disturbing, just human nature.
Re:got it wrong (Score:2)
You may be on to something with that, but I think there is an additional "something." One of the things some people have had difficulty with is trying to interact, in human ways, with a non-human.
It is not necessarily that people would realize an android is of low intelligence, but they can tell how a human reacts -- if it doesn't react like you expect it to, you get uneasy. If a person (real) acts strangely, you can tell, becaus
Robots Should Choose Themselves (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Choose from a group of predesigned body shapes
or
Design their own from scratch (I'm sure eventually...)
2) Modify them afterwards depending on their judgements of reactions towards them.
IANAAI (Artificial Intelligence) but such entities may find that one of the greatest challenges to its own evolution and interaction with the physical or virtual reality at hand depends greatly on the appearance it takes.
a robot called Hertz (Score:2)
Al Gore Will be Thrilled (Score:5, Funny)
Heh, I'm just begging for a smackdown from the mods with THAT comment! (of course, I'm protected from all but the smartest of them by that last sentence.)
Wait. Did I type that last parenthetical aside or just think it? (and that should cover the rest
Humanoid robots are a good thing... (Score:3, Insightful)
Infrastructure.
It's a huge efficiency to make robots that are able to use all the stuff we've made specifically for humanoids (cars, stairs, doors, chairs, tables, vacuum cleaners, various handheld implements, segways =] ). If you make general purpose humanoid robot, you automatically get a chauffer, a maid, etc., that can use all the tools of the trade. Rather than needing special robot cars, special robot vacuums, etc.
Kinda OT, but the "anti-human-robot" sentiment set me off. Sorry.
grib.
this is a JOKE (Score:2, Informative)
Anyone who has ever interacted with any robot, regardless of scale of the project, resemblance to humans, or application, can tell you that robots are STUPID.
Life-like faces are the last thing they need. Learning a language, learning how to walk on their own, object recognition, simultaneous localization and mapping, gripping, etc. are all in a pathetic state compared to what you read in CNN.
I mean, this is why I'm in the field: to improve it. B
I met this guy (Score:5, Interesting)
Funny thing is, the Ray Kurzweil (who was also at the conference) quote in the article sounds like a conversation I had with David. Our robot, built to serve hors d'oeuvres in a coctail party environment, was designed to look like a table, rather than a butler (Although it had a pan/tilt/zoom camera for a "head"). The idea was to improve on people's expectations of a table rather than disappoint people expecting a real human. Kurzweil's quote sounds like something I probably said to David: "Better to build a smart piece of furniture than a stupid human."
Robots should be robots. (Score:2, Interesting)
Will this lead to better condoms? (Score:2)
Is latex just used because it's cheap?
I want my Chii Persocom!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead, let's create facsimilies of creations such as Chii, from the Chobits anime. It's better to be on the artificial side of the uncanny valley, and make cute bishoujo robots
Who here WOULDN'T want a cute persocom as their assistant??!!
Morgui is likely to be more "persuasive" (Score:2)
Robot skin! (Score:2)
Personally, I want an R. Dorothy Wainwright.
Re:f'rubber (Score:5, Funny)
Re:f'rubber (Score:2, Funny)
No, you say this angrily when a condom breaks.
Umm.. this is slashdot, no one here knows what's actually inside the boxes marked "Condoms" at the pharmacy.
Re:f'rubber (Score:2, Funny)
Re:f'rubber (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ha (Score:5, Funny)
What they don't mention is that his girlfriend is also a robot.
Re:President Robot? (Score:2)
Cyberskin vs f'rubber. (Score:2)
--grendel drago
Re:Heh. (Score:2)