Searching by Shape... 148
Roland Piquepaille writes "Tired to type keywords in a general search engine to retrieve an image? A solution is in view. A specialized search engine developed by engineers at Purdue University allows users to draw a sketch of a part or to select one from a database. The system then returns parts having similar shapes. They call it shape searching. They think that companies having huge databases containing existing parts, such as in the automotive or the airline industries, will be able to save millions of dollars annually by saving up to 80 percent of the time necessary to search information on parts. This overview contains more details and an illustration of the searching process."
pr0n? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:pr0n? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:pr0n? (Score:1)
Re:pr0n? (Score:1)
hmm, why not just dimension searches (Score:2, Funny)
Re:hmm, why not just dimension searches (Score:2)
..it begs to ask.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:..it begs to ask.. (Score:3, Informative)
Its not intended for abstract concepts, but for someone who knows basically what they're looking for and doesn't have a product number or anything to identify the part via text.
Re:..it begs to ask.. (Score:1)
Re:..it begs to ask.. (Score:2)
We know what's gunna happen (Score:4, Funny)
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:4, Funny)
The various rendering of the goatse man alone will be worth the cost of developing such a system.
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:4, Funny)
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:1)
google gives me:
News results for (*)(*)
Saudi: Don't Blame OPEC on US Gas Price
???
Maybe a search for (o)(o) shows more interesting results..??
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:2)
I'm looking for Madonna! V V
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:4, Funny)
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:1)
ERROR: too many results, please refine your search!
Re:We know what's gunna happen (Score:3, Funny)
I tried it and got a bunch of faces with beady eyes.
Video Google (Score:2, Informative)
GIFT (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:GIFT (Score:3, Informative)
Re:GIFT (Score:2)
Finally! (Score:2, Funny)
One Word (Score:2, Funny)
As badly as I draw,... (Score:4, Funny)
Speaking as a layman... (Score:2)
It certainly sounds like one...
Re:Speaking as a layman... (Score:1)
No, silly! A flap actuator is a short, cylindrical tube that greatly expands and contracts in length when hydraulic pressure is applied or released.
oh... uhhhh... never mind...
Re:As badly as I draw,... (Score:4, Interesting)
If the part can be hand-carried, simply hold it up to the camera, get several shots from different angles, then search for edges to outline. Check with the user that the outlines are mostly correct, and go search.
If the part is too fricken heavy or awkward to handle, phone cameras and watch cameras are available. Is there a PDA+camera yet, with bluetooh/wireless for connection back to a desktop??
Oooh! Oooh! I could patent that!!
What mouse??? (Score:5, Informative)
Please, allow me to scream RTFA!!
Several people in here talk about how poorly one can sketch with a mouse. What mouse??? We are talking about Solid Modeling, folks! 3D, ya know?!
In that context, "sketching" means drawing up some 3D parts with very rough dimesnions by either using solid primitives or protruding/extruding profiles.
And most probably we are talking about users who sit in an office environment, far away from actual parts or physical prototypes (in case they even exist yet).
Please, read the article completely before posting comments!
Re:What mouse??? (Score:2)
Draw a shape with a tablet, have it automatically converted to reasonably similar 3-D primitives, use this as the basis for the search. No problem. The sytem doesn't seem to work this way now, but it could.
As for being unable to
Re:What mouse??? (Score:2)
As for being unable to draw at all, this is a system for design engineers. As I understand it, design engineers take mechanical drawing. Computers are great for final plans, but you still need drawing skills for the concept sketches, yes? No?
The very first ideas might be sketched with pen and paper, but after that it's way easier to design it in CAD, raffining parts as the details are worked out. That way, you don't have to resketch completely a part because you need it in two different parts to be asse
Re:As badly as I draw,... (Score:2)
How not to do the UI for this (Score:1, Funny)
Interesting, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Or you use your companies spare parts catalogue (which I do sometimes). Quite handy...
Oh, and just for the record: I work for the world's second-biggest truck manufacturer for quite some years now, so I'm not exactly new to this business.
Having said this, I must say that I naturally welcome every piece of research into this. So if the shape-searching guys really produce something useful, I think we will be one of the first to license this technology.
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
It would have limited functionality in my case.
i remember altavista image search (Score:1)
Not so easy? (Score:2, Insightful)
Good point, but... (Score:2)
So I could imagine this searching tool will be immediately accessible and handy to any graphic designers and photoshop junkies who already own graphics tablets, and it may just encou
Re:Not so easy? (Score:4, Informative)
You dont draw with your mouse to search. You select from a bunch of pics for something that matches what you are looking for. The system keeps narrowing your search down to fewer and fewer parts till you are satisfied with a result.
Re:Not so easy? (Score:2)
Finally someone with a clue, in here. As you and I already pointed out [slashdot.org], we are talking 3D sketching here or selecting from a database. This has nothing to do with drawing funny lines in MS Paint (or GIMP for that matter).
seriously, the problem I don't see an answer too (Score:2)
what if I sketch from a different point of view from the piece and the way that it is cataloged, they show a golf club looking head, fine.. what if I want a part that looks like a "insert object here", and I draw it from front/left, and the image on file is angled differently....
Re:seriously, the problem I don't see an answer to (Score:1)
Re:seriously, the problem I don't see an answer to (Score:2)
Think 3D. In Solid Modelling, "sketching" means creating a 3D volume with rough dimensions by either combining volume primitives (spheres, cylinders, cones, blocks etc) or by combining extruded profiles. Have you read the article? They talk about boxes they create around 3D features, so it's quite obvious that the sketch is in 3D, too.
Re:seriously, the problem I don't see an answer to (Score:2)
Talking about search: maybe scientists are conducting a search for extra terrestial intelligence because there's a severe shortage of terrestial intelligence.
Re:seriously, the problem I don't see an answer to (Score:2)
an engineer may make a 2d drawing of a 3d object from a different angle, (which end is up on a rectangular housing) and therefore the same elements can't be pulled from the sketch for comparison.
now, if the parts are ALL entered as 3'd imagery, the angle should not matter, but this is using flat image files already in place at the establishment, not rentry of 3'd scans.
Re:seriously, the problem I don't see an answer to (Score:3, Informative)
In the *real* world, we model in 3D and derive the 2D drawings automatically. Which means it's exactly the other way around: First you do the 3D, then the systems does the 2D view for you, then you add your dimension and annotations to make it a useful drawing to manufacture after. Nowadays, the model is the driving part, and the drawing
It will not work ... (Score:1)
Though it would be fascinating to know what current human study (psychology etc) says... How do we unterstand that a cat is a cat? (from a picture)
Tired of searching? Try surfing. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Tired of searching? Try surfing. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Tired of searching? Try surfing. (Score:2)
Here are some further ideas:
Re:Tired of searching? Try surfing. (Score:2)
Re:Tired of searching? Try surfing. (Score:1)
I clicked on an icon of a happy face, and got pottery instead. I guess the webmaster is happy doing pottery. Go figure.
General purpose image searching? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:General purpose image searching? (Score:1, Informative)
what's happening is catalogue [google.com] 'd
Saving trees, time, thumbs, clutter & space everywhere.
Magazines, journals, texts, documents ...
your Safari future awaits.
grammer check? (Score:2)
Huh... (Score:1)
A business plan? (Score:1)
2. They think that companies having huge databases containing existing parts, such as in the automotive or the airline industries, will be able to save millions of dollars annually by saving up to 80 percent of the time necessary to search information on parts.
3. Profit ???
I could see some applications for this, but I don't know how well something like this could actually perform. Will companies bite?
Actually all joking aside, I believe the results of their rese
Multiple Intelligences (Score:2, Interesting)
It seems the real challenge in terms of what the article is mentioning is having a database collected that someone could choose from. For a company that has a list of parts this seems quite useful.
A image recogn
Technical possibilities (Score:1)
If you crawl the web and compute the wavelet-transformations of all the pictures you encounter, you have a very fast image query at your disposal.
Wavelets are also used by the FBI for instantly veryfying the identity of a person encountered on the road by sending the wavelet-transform of his f
altavista had something like this didn't they? (Score:1)
Nothing new.. (Score:2, Interesting)
technology, Convera has had a commercial product (ImageFinder) since the early 90's doing exactly
this... as have 10s of other companies and researchers:
Database of content based image retrival systems [univ-nantes.fr]
Nitpicking (Score:2)
Doesn't voxel stand for "volume pixel" or "volumetric pixel"?
Re:Nitpicking (Score:2)
Re:Nitpicking (Score:2)
Unartistic people? (Score:1)
Re:Unartistic people? (Score:2)
Enough! (Score:2)
Enough with the fancy marketing buzzwords and hype phrases already!! When will people, who invent new technology, just pick a name that describes the technology??
Re:Enough! (Score:1)
What we all need to know (Score:3, Funny)
Old news... (Score:4, Funny)
Body type (check one):
() Kate Moss
() Barbie Doll
() Olive Oyl
() Petite
() Athletic Slim
() Athletic Trim
() Average
() Athletic Muscular
() Zaftig
() Body Builder
.
.
.
() Jabba the Hut
() Portraits, courtesy US Space Agency
(sorry)
Useful for finding replacement parts? (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems like with a new database, people would be more careful about cataloging things in the first place, and matching by shape wouldn't be necessary. I don't think I want an airline to buy parts by asking a computer to find something that seems to more-or-less look the same. (Same materials? manufacturing method? MTBF? It is the part solid or hollow?) That sort of recognition is something that I would hope would be a last resort.
With older databases, there's no standard whatsoever for pictures of parts. Sometimes you get isometric exploded views of a whole system, sometimes individual parts in outline, or from an angle, photos, etc. This system doesn't claim to match those up at all, so I don't see how it could help you find that obscure part for your '72 BMW. (Unless your local Advance Auto has a 3d CAD operator standing by...)
The example from the article, where engineers can look for a pre-existing similar part to what they want save manufacturing money seems like the only really practical use. So the airplane manufacturers might get some use, but (please!) not the airlines themselves.
Re:Useful for finding replacement parts? (Score:2)
Yet Another Project For Funding. (YAPF). (Score:1)
world practicallty. The examples mentioned in the article are useful for publishing research papers.
But I do not see a human sitting and drawing pictures
to find things realiably.
Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" (Score:4, Interesting)
Extendable to CR? (Score:3, Interesting)
What's the point...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Most adults are used to typing (it's part of their jobs) and are quite familiar with a search engine's interface. So even if they're confronted with an unknown application, a new search engine or a weird GUI they can usually figure out what to do. You take all that away by introducing a draw-a-sketch interface, hence reducing productivity.
And places that rely on having to search through a huge inventory of similar looking parts, like auto repair shops, either already have a system in place that uses hyperlinking or a deep-database, or use forms to enter part numbers to narrow down the selection to a few parts which can then be graphically displayed.
Volkswagen, for instance, does the latter. Car dealers can enter the VIN or the model and year into their forms and it displays a clickable, exploded view of the car, including all the various options. The program is also linked into their inventory and ordering system. Works pretty well, from what I hear.
Maybe this would work well for illiterate people though.
Re:What's the point...? (Score:1)
Re:What's the point...? (Score:2)
Searching for that doohickey [google.com] or thingamajig [google.com] is not going to get you the result that you want.
Re:What's the point...? (Score:2)
Thank goodness (Score:1)
Although, I suppose that depends on how good of an artist you are, especially if you need pictures of caves or waterfalls.
IBM has had this technolgy for several years (Score:1, Informative)
IBM DB2 (Score:2)
Does anyone else remember the ads about 10 years ago in Dr. Dobbs? IBM was claiming DB2 could do fuzzy image searching. The ad had a picture of a green wine bottle and a hand-drawn sketch of one of a similar shape.
Re:IBM DB2 (Score:1)
I'm not sure about the current incarnation, but at the time there was a demo that incl
Re:IBM DB2 (Score:2)
Hey, thanks for filling me in on that "I wonder what ever happened to . . .". IBM seems to have misplaced more cool tech than most other companies have produced at all.
I remember Pournelle [jerrypournelle.com] writing in Byte about that time that he complained to the IBM booth at Comdex that they wanted hundreds of dollars for a device driver kit for OS/2, whereas if he went to the Microsoft booth they would be stuffing diskettes in his bag for nothing.
There's always the other market (Score:2)
Princeton (Score:3, Informative)
similar opensource implementation: imgSeek (Score:2, Interesting)
They call it what? (Score:1)
They were in a meeting for hours deciding that... you should have seen the names they rejected.
Why not by sound? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why not by sound? (Score:2)
Yeah right, try to describe these. [purdue.edu]
I can see you sitting in front of your computer and typing into 3D-Google "L-shaped thing with small hollow cylinder on one side and two small holes on the other with a funny angle to it, looking like the alien gun in last weeks X-files, but without the pyramid on top"
Take lesson from Chinese character search (Score:2)
Chinese Character Dictionary [chinalanguage.com]
Think of similar method using Purdue-like description. Hopfully they are not copy-cats.
Princeton did this a while ago... and it was on /. (Score:2)
Audio? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Audio? (Score:2)
WOW! (Score:2)
shape searching (Score:2, Funny)
Re:shape searching (Score:2, Insightful)
Extremely helpful (Score:2)
There were no words associated with it, or antyhing. I thought it was either: A) Extremely intelligent statement on societies inability to learn anything about something that cannot accurately be represented and researched in text. or B) Just a random symbol.
I still haven't found out what it meant, but a tool like this would have been very useful.
IBM's QBIC does something similar for images (Score:2)
http://wwwqbic.almaden.ibm.com/ [ibm.com]
http://www.seyboldreports.com/SRDP/0dp9/D0901006.H [seyboldreports.com]
bigger implications (Score:2)
think the targetting system on robocop.
additionally you can use it in forensic scene analysis - scan a photo into this and have it analyze all the shapes and data....
then you can later seach for sites or scenes by description.... and reverse.
I, for one, welcome the Skynet overlord enabling step in s