RFID Luggage Tracking at Jacksonville Airport 123
securitas writes "AP reports that the Jacksonville Airport permanent RFID luggage tracking system will be installed this fall in time for the Super Bowl. The article concludes explaining that when San Francisco and Seattle ended their RFID pilot programs, they 'switched back to bar-code systems, saying the radio systems were unnecessary.' Mirror at Globetechnology, with more at Computerworld ,a large article at Jacksonville Business Journal, as well as some history from RFID Journal and Computerweekly." Moving to an untested system... paying for it by firing the baggage handlers who could help you recover from problems if the system proves to have bugs... what could go wrong?
Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted this would probably be an act of terrorisim, but rfid is not a secure system. Using it to track your inventory is ok because if it fails, you have alternate means of tracking it. Additionaly there isn't too much incentive for 'terrorists' to jam it (NYT Headline: Gilette unable to locate 22 pallets of Mach3 Turbo razor blades for 30 minutes during terrorist cyber-attack). Now, if the same happened to our luggage system (NYT Headline: Air traffic around the country delayed because of Jacksonville terrorist cyber-attack) people would notice.
Perhaps a even more destructive approach would be to record and randomly playback rfid signals. You'd have luggage going all over the country.
RFID is a good means of tracking items no one is going to go to the effort to jam/misdirect. It is not a secure means of tracking those items and should never be the only means.
Think about the upcoming system. Right now, pallets and maybe cases are tracked on the manufacturing/distribution level. If they were tracked individually _and_ were the sole means for product checkout.. well.. just sticking that pack of razor blades under your tin-foil hat during your full-cart insta-checkout would fool it (not that sticking it under any other hat in our bar code system is any different). The point is with RFID I can sit outside a wallmart on christmas eve at 5pm and shut down thier checkout systems.
Well, enough ranting RFID can be a great tracking tool when added to current systems. It is not a replacement for all current systems. Anyway, i'm not planning on flying through florida any time soon.
Re:Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Countermeasures are easily instituted. A simple and cheap metal shield around the reading station is all that's really needed.
The great advantage of RFID over bar code is that items of any shape can be reliably read. The big drawback of bar codes is that they can't be "deactivated" the way that rfid tags can. bar code systems are often confused by good labels that are "old".
Re:Thanks for your input Chicken Little (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thanks for your input Chicken Little (Score:3, Insightful)
To create a stretched but more accurate analogy, imagine we already have a tested, secure internet-like network, but we're going to fire all the administrators and switch over to a brand new network we've never tested that can be jammed at will by a single guy in a van. And then we're going to rely on it to match thousands of people to their baggage.
The transition is probably a good idea in the long run, but firing the baggage handlers now seems a tad prem
Re:Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:3, Interesting)
To which I can personally attest.
Re:Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, this is a good idea (Score:3, Funny)
All your bags are belong to us!
Terrorism?!? (Score:2)
Granted this would probably be an act of terrorisim
Uh, HOW? Disabling a few RFID tags doesn't threaten anyone at all in any way. "Ooooh, I'm so scared, I'm terrified, someone might disable my airline's luggage tracking system!" .. get real.
Vandalism, yes, terrorism, puh-lease. Terrorism is when you put bombs in the luggage and blow people up.
Anyway, what's the worst that would happen if you did do this? People would have to spend an hour or two manually re-sorting the luggage. Big f*cking whoop. The mos
"We lost your luggage..." (Score:4, Funny)
To quote the great Douglas Adams: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:To quote the great Douglas Adams: (Score:2)
Re:"We lost your luggage..." (Score:2, Funny)
Arrive Late In Turin, All Luggage In Albania.
First "Conversation Post" (Score:4, Funny)
3 years later...
Husband: Honey...What cities don't have rfid tracking?
Wife: None, dear. Looks like were vacationing in the basement again this year.
Husband: Sweet, I think Doom 3 should be out by then.
Does this AT ALL diminish the chances... (Score:3, Redundant)
i'm serious, folks, it happened again a few weeks ago
Re:Does this AT ALL diminish the chances... (Score:2)
Re:Does this AT ALL diminish the chances... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have this theory that the more (theoretically) reliable computer systems we use to assist us with tasks, the more stupid/lazy/unreliable/incompetent the human operators operating the systems become.
My impression is that "in the old days" people made some effort and were thorough in making sure things were done right. Now all people have to do is press a damn button on a computer, and they can't even seem to get that right. You say "no onions", all they have to do is press a single button on a computerise
Re:Does this AT ALL diminish the chances... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, as to your lowest level theorey, I tend to agree. I would rather see us pushed up the ladder doing more interesting things rather than doing less.
Re:Does this AT ALL diminish the chances... (Score:2)
I actually had a piece of *gate-checked* luggage lost once. At the door of the airplane, I handed it to the baggage handler who took it downstairs to deposit it in the cargo area. When we arrived at the airport, it was missing. It didn't show up at the gate, it didn't come out at the baggage claim, the airline denied that it was their fault, and then had the gall to say that the would forward it to my destination onc
Re:Does this AT ALL diminish the chances... (Score:1)
Help find lost bags? (Score:5, Informative)
Lost bags often sit in the airlines office for weeks..months sometimes. I worked for a ground handling company and would occasionally try to reunite lost baggage with the owners, but even after contacting the owners, they never claimed it. Probably because the airline already paid out their lost-baggage claim settlement.
Point is, 2 of the largest airports on the west coast said "This isn't really useful" and dropped the plans. Maybe the others shouldn't even bother with RFID.
Re:Help find lost bags? (Score:1)
Unecessary? Right..... (Score:5, Funny)
They can't even get my luggage from one plane to another when they're next to each other.
Now if they mean they have a harder time losing track of the luggage then I would agree with the above statement.
Slanted view perhaps? (Score:5, Insightful)
snip
The authority is trying to recoup that money through state and federal grants and by eliminating some of the 30 part-time, temporary workers that reroute lost bags.
Aww come on, it is just a few part-time jobs (probably jobs with high turnover that they won't need if the system works as promised) and it looks like it really increases the chance that your luggage won't get on a plane to Tahiti when you are going to Los Angeles. Must we just assume that RFID == Evil in every case??
Re:Slanted view perhaps? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Slanted view perhaps? (Score:1, Insightful)
If the answer to all of these question is "yes", then the time is right to implement this system. If the answer is "no", they may want to wait.
From everything I know about
Slanted view perhaps?-Ink Jet RFID. (Score:1, Interesting)
Maybe using this [informationweek.com] technology could lead to cheaper RFID tags.
Re:Slanted view perhaps? (Score:1)
The full-time turn-over rate is really low at Delta actually. Unfortunalty Delta is not hiring many more full time ground crew types anymore.
The world has changed.
Smart luggage, what next? (Score:5, Insightful)
"No, your luggage is smarter than you and has decided to go to California for the winter. Have a nice stay in Jacksonville!"
Seriously: RFID tags on luggage is a good idea, as any traveller wondering where the heck his suitcase went to will tell you. The systems will have teething problems, but today's barcode tickers are not 100% successful either. I've been stranded without luggage at two destinations in a year, both times I had to buy a set of clothes on arrival. In one case it took 4 weeks for my luggage to make it home.
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:1, Informative)
You know, I've seen your sig several times already, and I almost wanted to get in touch with you, since I'm looking for a job and all, but then I though to myself: "are you sure you want to work for a guy who spends his time posting on Slashdot?" and also "do you really believe he run a company at all, since he obviously have a lot of free time to post bollocks here, and I sort of remember I didn't whe
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:2)
Slashdot is a important source of info (indeed) and I type very quickly, the bollocks does not take a lot of time. I spend significantly less time on
But you say you "were running yours"... past tense? What happened? If you're a particularly good programmer and happen to live in Belgium, maybe you want to send me your CV.
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:5, Informative)
Here are the top reasons bags go lost:
1. Missed connection. Bags travel slower than you do. A 10 minute delay into the airport is enough to cause several bags to miss your flight.
2. Automatic Baggage System breakdown. This happens a LOT on all major airports. All bags are then routed to a central area for manual sorting and distribution. This adds to the time, and makes a lot of bags miss flights.
3. Automatic Baggage System sorting error (and subsequent failure of bagagge handler to notice the error). Bags loaded on wrong aircraft / destination. (This often happens if bags are missing from A to B)
4. Loss of baggage tag. Bags go to a tracking office, or arrival service for entering into the global baggage tracking system.
What happens when your bag is "lost":
1. You arrive at the airport, notice your bag is missing (or you're summoned over PA). Head over to arrival-service for the airline in question (the last airline you traveled on), state your details, show the tag receipt for the bag missing.
2. Details about your bag (tag number, colour/type, your address, phone, misc. delivery information, contents (rarely)) will be entered into the global baggage tracking system called World Tracer.
3.
- In case of missed transfer, baggage handlers *should* (depending on how much time they got) enter a "forwarding message" in World Tracer, in which arrival-service already knows when your bag will arrive.
- In case of wrong airport, the arrival service handlers for your airline will send a "forwarding message" to the destination for the tag. This may take a while, say, if your bag goes on a trip overseas.
This info is "matched" inside World Tracer (most prevalently: the tag number, but also all other info like colour/type, name, address, etc.).
IF YOUR BAG IS MISSING A TAG, AND NO NAME/ADDRESS INFORMATION ON THE BAG:
Arrival-service will enter details about your bag into World Tracer, as an "onhand file". This includes colour/type and contents list. If bag is locked, it'll take a few days until someone will bother to crack it open, in case colour/type/extra info will match to your "missing file".
Tagless bags take the longest time to re-unite with the owner. ALWAYS WRITE NAME AND ADDRESS ON YOUR BAG!
Last, when your bag arrives the airport in question, it's stored on one of the daily "lost baggage distribution" hours, and someone will call you for delivery information. Or, in case of many low-cost carriers, they'll call you, or wait for your call, to inform you to pick it up at the airport, at your own expense.
- Over 90% of "lost baggage" is really delayed baggage, and will be found within 24 hours.
- Pilferage is almost non-existing. There are bad apples everywhere, but most baggage handlers are honest people.
So, don't worry. The "forever lost bag" is an urban myth. Just label your bags, and you'll be just fine.
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:2)
But what frosts my butt is that once things *do* end up there, they're unrecoverable. If you lose an incredibly valuable watch, file a police report that it was stolen and have all your documentation in order - it still doesn't matter. You can go to that lost luggage store, find *your* watch, and they won't let you have it. Period. The process of the airline making public notice about the item and selling it to the vendor who operates that store launders the
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:2)
Perhaps at your airport, but how can you be sure all the airports have the same level of honest baggage handlers. Can you really vouch for the baggage handlers in other countries? And can you really vouch for the baggage handlers in the US are that are earning half or a third of what you make?
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:2)
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:2)
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:5, Interesting)
The travellers buy their own RFID tags, each with a unique number. The tag is theirs to keep, throw away or trade as desired. When travelling, they put one tag in each piece of luggage, get the luggage scanned at check-in and go from there. When they recover their luggage at the airport, they can put the tag in a protective sleeve to prevent further scanning.
The cool thing about this, there is no continuous cost to the airlines, no waste of material: the tag can be reused. It'll make it actually cheaper to operate. Of course, the RFID tag should be optional (at least for the short-term) or really cheap to buy right at the check-in coutner.
Yes (Score:1)
Re:Yes (Score:1)
Besides, the airlines won't give you anything for free, they'll just add the cost to your ticket price.
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:1)
Re:Smart luggage, what next? (Score:1)
What could go wrong? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, if your halftime show costume has some sort of RFID system controlling its closures, you may want to check for interference during rehearsals. Or at least wear nipple jewelry.
Also, not giving Tom Brady the ball with a minute left seems like a sensible precaution, RFID or no.
Re:RFID Luggage Tracking at Jacksonville Airport (Score:2, Funny)
Actually, it should be us welcoming you back.
RTFA (closer) poster... (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted, 29 is "some" of 30 workers if that's what they mean... but it's also sounding they aren't planning to eliminate all the workers who route bags... just some of the ones who are temporarily employed to deal with lost bags...
Of course, I've been temporarily employed for 3 years now...
If it's like the rest of the JAX SuperBowl Project (Score:5, Interesting)
I have no idea how Jacksonville expect to have a successful superbowl. Thier downtown area is tiny, their main downtown attraction "the Landing" is desserted every night of the week, the hotels aren't great, their are three good restaurants in town (Bebe's, The Pom, and Bistro Aix, if you're heading to the SuperBowl), and each seats about 20 people.
I have a feeling this superbowl is going to be a disaster for Duval county.
Permanent ?? (Score:1)
I will take my money elsewhere.
Re:Permanent ?? (Score:1)
Re:Permanent ?? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Permanent ?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I can only see 2 objections to this.
If your object is 1, I will point out that most of the cutbacks were during 911 and only now starting to come back. the airlines are growing slowly. This is the time to do it. It will allow costs to be contained. Admittly, low end jobs will not come back, but I would rather place these people in better jobs.
If your objection is 2, well, you are way too late for that. On the day that Huesein's cap
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Almost sounds like their outsourcing the baggage handling it to India.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Florida is a haven for pseudo-tech marketeers. Face recognition, e-voting, rfid-luggage.
It's good to have a dumping ground, so we don't have to keep the techno-trash lying around the rest of the continent.
But what happens if I pack a cow in my luggage? (Score:3, Funny)
Not necessary ?? (Score:4, Funny)
Well, what wrong could happens? (Score:3, Funny)
Lost Bag without tag .. (Score:1)
I did get my bag back, after a week, because I was able to describe it and it's contents
Lost the bag, but found the clothes (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lost the bag, but found the clothes (Score:2)
This is actually a much better idea than barcodes. (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with barcodes is that they have to be scanned. They're passive, and it takes time to stop, grab a scanner, and hit the barcode.
The biggest cause of misrouted bags is time crunches -- somebody rushing to get the bag onto a flight, not stopping to find a scanner to scan in, misreading the three letter code, and throwing it onto the wrong belt, cart, or into the wrong plane.
Ideally, you'd have RFID boxes on the belts, the carts -- and in the cargo doors (for narrowbodies) and the LD-3 loading station (for widebodies.) that's programmed to know what flight(s) are invovled, and sets off an alarm when a tag doesn't match. So, if they're rushing, and they read "LAS" (McCarran International Airport, Las Vegas), the beeper on the cargo door goes off, they look again, and see that, no, it is really "LAX" (Los Angeles International), and *not* put the bag on the Las Vegas flight.
Even if the LAX flight has already left, this is a better answer. It is far easier to fix the "Bag Didn't Make The Flight" error (you put the bag on the next flight) than it is to fix the "Bag Went On The Wrong Fight" error, since there may not be a direct flight from the bag's current destination and the bag's correct destination.
This particular error is quite common -- esp. when someone has been working one of the two flights, and gets a bag for the other. They see "L" and "A" and, having seen "S" for the last hour, don't bother to parse the "X" at the end.
As to privacy concerns? As long as the tag is on the bag for one trip only, it is no worse than barcode. Indeed, your nametag often gives away *more* privacy information than your trip tag -- and it is always there. (Get one of those tags you have to open up, and if you are employed, put your work address on the bag.)
Another issue -- a bag is loaded onto a plane, but the passenger isn't onboard. Nowadays, this means that they have to pull the bag. Right now, this means wading through a loaded bay or container to find it. With a handled RFID box, you can at least get close to the bag quickly.
This is an application where a well build RFID system could make a very real improvment in luggage handling -- for both the passengers and airlines.
Re:This is actually a much better idea than barcod (Score:1)
Actually, the bags don't ever stop moving. I worked on the team that put in one of the first automated baggage handling systems at the Pittsburgh Int'l Airport in the early 90's.
They zip by the scanning stations at about 20mph. The scanning station is a ring of six or so laser scanners around the belt, including the bottom. There's a gap of several inches between t
DIA was to have this. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:DIA was to have this. (Score:1)
Re:DIA was to have this. (Score:2)
Discworld (Score:2, Funny)
RFID before direct flights (Score:2, Funny)
RFID for bags Jacksonville only? Forget it! (Score:1)
The whole baggage tracking relies nowadays on the barcode on the bag tag (which is basically the number of the airline - 4 digits - and the bag number - 8 digits), and a very complex message passing based machinery. So if only jacksonville has rfid, these are hopeless unusefull on the baggage sorta
Isn't that what the US are doing already? (Score:1, Funny)
It's what it looks like to me.
Wait a minute, *my* country's military is down there, too.
This is embarassing.
AC on.