2ch: Japanese Web Forum As Social Vent 275
News for nerds writes "This NY times article (reg blah blah) sheds the light on Japan's largest Internet bulletin board - 2ch. About 5.4 million people come to this "Channel 2" each month, many of them several times a day (just like you nerds making beowulf cluster of alphabets all the day!). Founded in 1999, "ni-channeru," as it is called there, has become part of Japan's everyday culture as no other Web site has. While you can also find useful info such as dinner recipes there, it's almost like Battle Royale came into life as a web site, filled with verbal and physical violence backed by pseudo anonymity."
Sounds Like... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:2)
Oh wait... there's always the Islamics, or Iraqis, or Drug Barons, or terrorists, or... damn.. how many enemies you guys got?
Sounds like you yourself are perpetuating the us-versus-them montra.
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:4, Interesting)
Erm, I'll try again
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/forumdisplay.ph p?f=101122457 [rottentomatoes.com].
Incidently, because of the "2ch effect" it is considered bad manners to post links there without disabling them first (usually by chopping off the first "h").
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:3, Informative)
Ofcourse you know, There are a nerd-less-less version of 2ch, in Japan, The Slashdot Japan [slashdot.jp] !
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:5, Funny)
Englishify slashdot.jp [altavista.com]
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:2, Funny)
"according to the New Yorktimes (to read article, the register is needed)"
I knew El Reg was the secret to reading NYT articles
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:2)
(score: 3, splendid discernment)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds Like... (Score:5, Funny)
3get (Score:2, Interesting)
We have that in America (and rest of world) too... (Score:5, Funny)
http://groups.google.com for you kids out there.
Punch bag (Score:2, Insightful)
On a serious note, media properties like this, I suppose, do their bit in maintaining social balance. Japan already has a disturbingly high suicide rate...
Re:Punch bag (Score:2, Insightful)
Especially, when it comes from a relatively economically stable country with no current war involvements...
Tried to read it (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tried to read it (Score:5, Insightful)
The large number of people who don't have oriental language sets installed on their browser is a bit sad. Occasionally, companies and programmers have bouts of interest in localization. Such efforts often fall through.
Regardless, the Internet is a great place to learn language skills. Personally, I think all web designers should chose a second language and trying muddling their way through web sites written in a different language to understand the challenges of different cultures.
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2, Informative)
*whoosh*
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
Re:Tried to read it (Score:4, Informative)
If you don't speak any asian languages, what's the point? It's like locales. Just sitting on my disk, wasting space. Apt-got localepurge and haven't noticed a single change. Except several dozen megabytes more HD space, that is.
Or perhaps you mean that I should want to have such things. Because languages are good for me or some such. Sorry, but I have way too much to learn already, that'll have to wait for another lifetime.
Re:Tried to read it (Score:4, Insightful)
There is an old European proverb that says: With each language you learn, you're worth one more person.
Learning languages is great. Learning languages is a unique gateway into loads of new information, new literature, and other cultures. Think of all the good scientific work written in German. Think of all the South American literature. Think of all the Asian philosophy.
I really could never understand people who are not interested in learning languages. Maybe it's because I grew up in Europe, but I see people who don't at least speak one language next to their own as just shy of illiterate (and they often ARE illiterate).
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
Now, I see this and think, "Hm, pity it wasn't all written in English. Then I could read everything and not be bothered with choosing a language to learn and spending years mastering it before I really understood the complexities of it."
Now, I'm not saying that learn
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
That's why I'm trying to learn as many languages as I can while I'm working on a PhD, playing instruments, mastering perl/HTML/CSS and several other things
Re:Tried to read it (Score:3, Informative)
If you're only interested in increasing value to your company, then you would probably think that learning languages is only for the elitists (no cash? useless!). You can never learn everything in the field of engineering either, but that doesn't mean you should stop bothering to learn anything outside the narrow scope of your fi
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
Yes, but none of these translations is ever pure and true to form. You really don't appreciate the dramatic differences between English translation and German original until you understand some of the profound differences in sentence structure. For example, it is possible that one of the reasons that many German philosophers prefer dialectics [plusroot.com] to syllogisms is that the Ge
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2, Funny)
The large number of people who don't have oriental language sets installed on their browser is a bit sad
Personally, I think the large number of anime geeks who don't speak Japanese but do have Japanese language sets installed on their browser is a bit sad.
Just kidding. I have them installed too! ^_^
Re:Tried to read it (Score:2)
Is it? Not all of us have the time to try to muddle through websites in other languages. I'll do it in French if necessary, since I understand a little, but honestly.
Physical violence? (Score:2, Informative)
Then I realised it was just an attempt by the poster to get more hype for the post by inserting illogical statements in the desciption.
moderation? (Score:4, Interesting)
Slashdot deals with this in a unique way by allowing the users to do the police work. This is (imo) vastly superior to having overzealous super-moderators cruising around laying down the law.
2ch sounds like it's an order of magnitude larger than slashdot. Can any japanese users of 2ch shed light on how they deal with the "fuckwit factor"?
Re:moderation? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:moderation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really. The point is, they have their own world, just like the rest of the community.
Think of it as the equivalent of graffiti - sure, it ruins walls and what not, but hey it's a creative outlet and a means of expressing themselves. And better this than anything else.
And more importantly, it's called Freedom of Speech - and I really like the way Slashdot handles this.
The point is, almost everyone feel like trolling at some point of time or the other, or atleast on some topic or the other. And when you do, you inevitably fall into the so-called fuckwit category that you mentioned.
And quite honestly, I take offence at your choice of words - fuckwit factor? What is that supposed to mean?
It's a forum, and people can discuss just about anything that pleases them - and on a place like Slashdot, you are given the choice of seeing what you like. Despite everything, I would not like anyone messing with the posts, no matter how shitty they are.
There are times when I read at -1 (and quite honestly, enjoyed the trolls) and there are times when I read at +3.
There is no one-size fits all.
And that's one of the many reasons I like Slashdot (well, Kuro5hin is better in some respects when it comes to tolerating trolls, but I digress). Your fuckwit tolerance level changes, and you have the choice of choosing how tolerant you are.
And finally, to answer your question - RTFA. They do not.
Re:moderation? (Score:2, Interesting)
Then came the crap flood "trolls". See, a finely crafted troll is one
Re:moderation? (Score:2)
I enjoy a quality troll as much as the next man, but the sad reality is that most of the rubbish rated as "troll" is nothing more than crapflooding.
I firmly believe that slashcode should merge the "troll" and "flamebait" moderation and add a "crapflood" moderation.
I could then give -6 to all crapfloods and +1 to everything else.
Freedom of Speech, my donkey (Score:2)
Oh, flippin' please... For a while it was even funny to hear about how I _have_ to let fuckwits ruin forums, newsgroups, online games, etc, in the name of "freedom of speech." Then even that got old.
It was also funny for a while to notice how those making the biggest fuss about "fredom of speech", were the ones who had no fscking clue what it means. Or how it's usually the exact same fuckwit group which thrives on ruining everyone else's fun. Then even
Re:Freedom of Speech, my donkey (Score:2)
From my understanding, though, once a site starts deleting, say, defamatory messages it is reponsible for moving all of them. That is, one strategy would to be to remove no defamatory statements, and say, "freedom of speech." Once you start prohibitng true freedom of speech on your site, though, you are now liable for thos
Re:moderation? (Score:2)
I think that you vastly underestimate the amount of jerks over the age of 16,
"On average, people are mean."
Slashdot deals with this in a unique way by allowing the users to do the police work. This is (imo) vastly superior to having overzealous super-moderators cruising around laying down the law.
That is an interesting observation considering that it works nearly the opposite way in real life. Perhaps it has to do with the ratio of offenders to the population. In
2ch is great (Score:2, Funny)
Re:2ch is great (Score:2)
Another News Link (Score:3, Interesting)
Those wacky Japs! (Score:2)
What will they think of, next?!
Re:Those wacky Japs! (Score:2)
You laugh now, but in ten years time you'll be venting on a Japanese-made bulletin-board: it'll be smaller, faster, cheaper and in stereo.
Uhh, it's in japanese (Score:2)
I work [7bamboo.com] with japanese, and I understand a few words, but I just can't see what the hubbub about this article on a japanese board that I can't even read is.
Here [morphedmedia.com] is a very active forum of trolls and flames in english if anyone is interested.
Re:Uhh, it's in japanese (Score:2)
Uh, yeah. Kind of the point. This is a story about how a culture other than ours is using the internet for emotional release.
I work with japanese, and I understand a few words, but I just can't see what the hubbub about this article on a japanese board that I can't even read is.
Well, why don't you ask the people you work with? Maybe it would help you understand them a little better, which is th
Registration Free Link (Score:5, Informative)
They are making this harder to do...
Re:Registration Free Link (Score:2, Insightful)
and searching for the article but it just forwarded me to the ny times site without any additions to the html link.
I noticed however that the 3 things you need are the partner (=google, or =slashdot?), an ex=(something,
maybe related to the partner?), an en=(i don't know how you get this?) and an ei=5062
How?
Re:Registration Free Link (Score:2)
Steps:
1) Go to site, login. Look at page title.
2) Go to google news, search for title
3) Don't click the First link above the main search results, go down 2 lines to where the link is repeated. Replace partner=GOOGLE with partner=SLASHDOT, just in case their admins ever check the log.
Have fun. It took me about 5 minutes of searching to figure this one out. I even tried doing a google redirect - it won't work.
Re:Registration Free Link (Score:2)
I've known about ni-channeru for a while, but the Japanese language as used there is mostly too difficult for me to follow. I judge it more by the reactions of my Japanese friends when I ask them about it, and their reactions are pretty weird. Overall, I think most of them regard i
Wikipeda article (Score:5, Informative)
Context & Japanese Social Habits (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, to say that Japan, and its society, resembles nothing like Western cultures is a massive understatement. In that culture, being able to speak your mind, in a raw form, can be dangerous to your reputation which affects your career, finances, and relationships, and the last thing a Japanese person wants is to be alienated from the Group. The issues of Tatemae and Honne cover this social restraint of tactful to the group and honest in private, among other aspects of Japanese life.
Basically, this public, anonymous forum gives Japanese people the ability ( It is still a novelty to most of them, I would imagine ) to act "normal": Polite, Helpful, Insight, Confrontational, Insulting, Argumentative, etc. These free-flowing interactions are just not acceptable in a Japanese public setting. In the end, if you know the context of the culture ( I have a little insight into it [triumvirate.net], but I am sure other
U.S. women. Japanese in the United States. (Score:2)
Excellent comment.
To a lesser degree, American women feel compelled to pretend to agree with the group. So, the same problems occur in the United States. The learn this habit because they want what the U.S. culture supposedly will give them.
Also, it is good to mention that Japanese who live with the openness of the U.S. culture often learn to like it a lot, and sometimes have difficulty being accepted when they go home.
The social pressure in Japan is HUGE.
Re:Context & Japanese Social Habits (Score:2)
yeah, like they actually employ understatement in communication rather than using the word to simply further inflate content-free rhetoric like the sample of yrs quoted above - (Hey let's bold and italicise my pearls of wisdom just to make sure no-one misses them)
Battle Royale (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately for all the American slashdotters, it has never been released in the US (not even on VHS or DVD), and probably will never be. There have been many debates on why exactly this is. I know only one thing, if I were the distributor, I would want to keep it out of the US. The profits will not be worth the moral outrage it will cause.
Bottom line is that it is a great movie, and if you have the chance, you should watch it.
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Don't bother with the sequel. It's unutterable crap, skipping character development and human interest in favour of bloodshed. And since it's playing to an audience that saw Battle Royale and then came back for more, it decides that the mass slaughter of children isn't going to shock anyone - so instead we have the celebration of international terrorism. How imaginative.
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Americans really responded to news of junior high kids serially massacreing their fellow students.
Has anything like it happened in Japan or is it all an imaginary situation, possibly based on the prozac induced insanity that happened in our own backyard?
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Its an interesting film with a fairly positive outcome at the end. People willing to give their own life for their loved ones.
Got good release here in Australia though. And BR2 is doing the same I think.
quentin tarantino certainly saw battle royale (Score:5, Informative)
and she's also basically the same character in both movies
tarantino is on record saying he loves Kinji Fukasaku [imdb.com], and both kill bill movies were really nothing more than tarantino's tribute to the film makers and films he's always loved (and well done, i might add)
here's more: [japattack.com]
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2, Insightful)
Moral outrage?
Have you seen "Ichi The Killer"?
Fry's sells that for fucks sake!
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
It's a very shocking movie, the violence is very realistic, it's shot on video and looks like any other reality show. It reminded me of Man Bites Dog [imdb.com] for it's disturbing
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
The idea is very much the same, but Series 7 lacks one thing that makes Battle Royale so disturbing and controversial: In Battle Royale it's 14-15 year old school kids killing each other, not adults.
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Depends who you date.
That response could be a simple flip joke, but actually I'm thinking of one girl I dated in particular. She had a brain and a very dark and twisted sense of humor (definite pluses in my book). One day we sat around talking - in a little village cemetary from the 1800's. She brought me there. She pointed out her favorite headstone with some poetry she liked.
My motto: "Normal people are boring. I don't have many boring friends." She was cool, she was twisted,
It's a BOOK! (Score:2)
I agree though, the connection between Battle Royale and 2ch seems tenuous at best.
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
I've always thought that, as with many many Japanese films, if you imagine that it's a message about America, (weather or not it's actually intended to be) you'll get an interesting viewpoint.
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
I guess there's a first for everything. I haven't seen the movie, but the blurb doesn't sound too bad. So what makes it morally outrageous in your opinion?
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Re:Battle Royale (Score:2)
Comparisons between Lord of the Flies and BR are inevitable but not entirely justified. Without writing an essay, here's my point of view. Golding was writing about man's inherently primal nature and the conflict between it and civilized society. BR is satirical, contemporary social criticism that examines how youth deal with the rules that society forces upon them.
NYT sensationalism (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is different from American corporate culture how?
People gossip, form alliances, backstab, bully, and snub here in the US too. A showdown or heart to heart to resolve differences is actually fairly rare in any office, it's more likely that a person will silently become your enemy and never show it until they have a chance to screw you over.
Sure the Japanese are different, but so is every other country. I think too much credence is still given to the "inscrutable oriental" image.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The big deal (Score:5, Interesting)
dude, you have not worked in germany.
the way criticism is delivered differs substantially.
america uses the hamburger tactic: criticism (the meat) is wrapped in sweet talk and encouragement (the bun). in germany, it's just the meat. in japan, just bun.
if you do something good in america, they will make you think you just achieved the greatest thing in the world, whereas in germany you get a dry "not bad" and that will be the end of it.
when there is a successful project, there will be own-shoulder-padding to no end in america whereas in germany they will focus on what hasn't worked and could be done better.
to americans, the germans just seem blunt to the point of being insulting... and to germans, the americans seem to be on prozac...
from what i have seen in aisa is that - for example - they will never say "no" to a higher-up, whereas in germany and america it's expected (at least in my industry) and managers rely on that as valuable feedback. e.g. in asia you will not point out problems that you see with your boss' suggestion. even if you know you can't possibly do it you will keep silent and try your best...
Re:The big deal (Score:2)
and to germans, the americans seem to be on prozac
Well, they are, aren't they?
They keep sending me emails to buy some.
Was it 2ch? (Score:2)
/. reduced to leeching stories from Channel 9??? (Score:2, Troll)
So I guess all the folks who think Slashdot is nothing but a bunch of M$ hating Linux fan-boys can go back in the closet now. Sadly, only to be replaced by a new crew crowing about how
Been There, Done That... (Score:2, Troll)
why sites like these are appearing now (Score:2, Insightful)
It's true that there haven't been many successful "web communities" in Japan until now (unless, of course, you count the sex sites), and most internet usage here has been business ori
Re:why sites like these are appearing now (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you greatly overestimate the overlap between your geek circles and otaku (geek) circles. I also live in Japan, but don't move in geeky circles, rather creative ones. Everyone knows ni-channeru because it's one of the central hubs of creativity.
As anyone who has lived here knows, the scenes in Japan are greatly splintered, and every scene has its own subcultures. In London, someone would say she's a goth. I
[OT] Why are Japanese websites so ugly? (Score:2)
Show me, show you! (Score:2, Informative)
It's been a great source of material for Japanese assignments over the years, a place where youth vent about society over there.
Slashdot is big, but it's not on the scale of 2ch. It's a pity it's so poorly organised. Trying to find information without using a search engine is practically useless at 2ch.
But as long as they keep creating things like Kikkoman, 2ch will keep popping up here in the west!
read to the end of the article (Score:4, Insightful)
that's a hilarious and refeshing attitude
huh? (Score:2)
you are anyone else's judgment as to its quality or lack thereof notwithstanding
in fact, it is GOOD that usenet, slashdot, this japanese site, kuro5hin, etc. is full of so much trolling and garbage and negativity: it's catharsis
catharsis: negative emotions that would otherwise find expression in real life, find expression harmlessly in cyberspace
that's the goodness of free speech in action
just because everyone isn't delivering abraham lincoln-quality speech
Similar Places (Score:2)
If you're confused... (Score:2)
must be the assembly programmer in me (Score:3, Interesting)
2ch is the ascii code for a '.'
Slashdot should now be known as 2f2ch
Battle Royale (Score:2)
So it's exactly like
Writeup not entirely up to date (Score:2)
About 5.4 million people come to this "Channel 2" each month
Make that 5.4 million minus one.
Re:4chan.org (Score:4, Funny)
(I only know because I visit!)
Re:Never heard of it.... (Score:2)
I've lived in Japan since 1999, in the technology community (such as it is...), and I have never heard of this site until now, never even heard it referenced on TV or in print.
Either you're lying, or you're so focused on maintaining your little bubble of American-ness that you might as well not be in Japan at all. 2ch is all over the place, and was even mentioned in national newspapers multiple [yomiuri.co.jp] times [yomiuri.co.jp] recently [yomiuri.co.jp].
Thanks for playing, better luck next time.
Re:Meaning of the name 2 chan (Score:2)
Re:Japanese Layout (Score:2, Informative)
Japanese is laid out in browsers in the same way English is - left to right, top to bottom.
2ch's layout may look like crap, but nobody uses the top page anyway - anybody serious about it would have installed a specialised 2ch browser that permits easy switching between threads and boards.
Re:2Ch animations (Score:2)
That was interesting. Always the *nix guys come to save the day