How To Get Googled, By Hook Or By Crook 310
Mr. Christmas Lights continues: "So some folks in the SEO community decided to have a 2 month contest where they made up a nonsense keyword phrase (nigritude ultramarine), and they will award a iPod and a 17" LCD (big spenders, eh?) to whoever ends up #1 in Google a month and two months from now - read more contest details at Dark Blue's SEOChallenge and follow the progress at www.seochallenge.com.
As you can imagine, there will be all sorts of wild web pages out there - for example, take a look at this "optimized" URL for nigritude ultramarine : www.nigritude-ultramarine.com/nigritude-ultramarin e/nigritude-ultramarine.asp and I'm sure there will be plenty of other entertaining entries - you can do a Google Search yourself to see who's currently on top.
Note to Slashdot Editors: I have NOT entered the contest - buncha SEO pro's are involved and a hobbiest (at best) like me (who doesn't stray over to the dark side - I like Google! ;-) would get spanked."
Hmm. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Insightful)
Damn that Heisenberg.
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Interesting)
And this looks like a good place to tell you about The Nigritude Ultramarine [linux-monster.com] attack submarine. I'd laugh if I even show up in the top 100.
Re:Hmm. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hmm. (Score:3, Interesting)
Does the following * user-agent also apply to Google or not? If not, he will indeed get on Google in no time flat.
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hmm. (Score:3, Insightful)
See for yourself, do a search for "vancouver electrical engineer wireless hardware" [google.ca]. The second item there will be me (as of today, anyways). Higher pagerank than the IEEE Communications Society in Vancouver, even.
Dave
Re:Hmm. (Score:2, Insightful)
The bots *DO* read Slashdot comments, and give preferential treatment to posts that receive high scores. If you don't know how to add anything constructive to a conversation, you probably shouldn't attempt this, because it's a waste of time for yourself and everyone else.
In my own experience, it works like a charm to attrac
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
What about black hat SEO (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What about black hat SEO (Score:2)
I would guess the easiest way is to just let Google staff or whatever methods it employs to take care of this.
Isn't SEO *inherently* dubious? (Score:5, Insightful)
What comes to mind is a strip of the old comic strip "Ernie". This strip has a running gag about a local group called the "Pirhana club" which has a yearly "Pirhana of the Year" contest which is literally a yearly award to whichever of the members can be the biggest sleazeball.
There's one character in the strip named "Uncle Sid" who wins the contest every year. He's just that much of an asshole.
One year, as the Pirhana of the Year award approached, the strip chronicled various members of the club working overtime to get the award. Sid, though, did nothing, just sitting in the bar, oblivious and drinking while the other members of the club bragged to him about how they were certain to win this year.
And on the strip on the day of the award ceremony, the readers were shown various members of the club around the room, explaining to the person next to them why they're certain they're going to win. A member of the city council brags about demanding kickbacks from an orphanage to retain their funding. A doctor brags about defrauding patients by charging them for surgery he anesthesised them for but did not perform for nonexistent ailments. A used car salesman brags about selling a set of totally nonfunctional cars to a nunnery. And as the announcer calls out "THE WINNER.. IS.. SID", the camera pans to Uncle Sid explaining to Ernie that he stuffed the ballot box.
The next strip simply showed the other lead contenders confronting Sid and demanding to know, "How did you win? What did you do?" And Sid responds, "I cheated. I stuffed the ballot box and bribed the judges."
The disheartened response, after a brief pause was "Damn, you're good."
Re:Isn't SEO *inherently* dubious? (Score:2, Informative)
Must.. optimize... froogle (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Must.. optimize... froogle (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Must.. optimize... froogle (Score:2, Funny)
The Fighting Force (Score:5, Funny)
i'll be curious to see what they come up with (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:i'll be curious to see what they come up with (Score:5, Interesting)
That can be a good thing - stop the spammers doing their thing, and forcing commercial junk that's only relevant to the owners/advertisers on a site into google. Let google evolve into something better, bit by bit.
Personally, I'm all for just creating damned good content, and people will come across it and link to it on their own. No effort other than Creating Good Content. No need to spam, flood forums with links, or otherwise make people link to you that otherwise wouldn't
Now they need a contest on how to get delisted, I still have a domain name that hasn't been used in 3 years that is in google.
heh. Yahoo still contains a page of mine that's 18 months gone as the main link to my page. Talk about out of date.
Re:i'll be curious to see what they come up with (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps they saw your login name and assumed you wouldn't mind?
Re:i'll be curious to see what they come up with (Score:4, Informative)
Re:i'll be curious to see what they come up with (Score:2, Informative)
If you want to get removed, Google has some information on how [google.com].
Re:i'll be curious to see what they come up with (Score:4, Interesting)
a new topic (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:a new topic (Score:2)
Note to worldwide media: It's a search engine, yes it has a colorful logo, but get back to your news and stuff.
dear me (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:dear me (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:dear me (Score:2)
Re:dear me (Score:5, Insightful)
1) They used a _real_ word for the contest. Ultramarine may not be common,
but this will eventually fubar legitimate searches. A random string would
have been a better measure.
2) This is a contest being run by an Ad-Company so that they can glean the
best techniques for getting their ads in the first 3 pages on a Google
search. Nothing more.
Re:dear me (Score:2, Redundant)
I know this might sound controversial, but. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I know this might sound controversial, but. (Score:5, Insightful)
Still, I'm no fan of the competition this story is about. It's no more or less than a competition to find ways to lessen the usefulness of the Web by giving more power to "spammers" (in the loose sense of the word).
Re:I know this might sound controversial, but. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I know this might sound controversial, but. (Score:2, Interesting)
Just an interesting side note, Slashdot is on the second page for "news" on google (15th search result).
Advertising (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Advertising (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Advertising (Score:2)
The winners' pages are going to be ranked, indexed, and cached by Google. My question is, how would they avoid sharing their techniques? (Even if they block Google from caching, they've still got to leave their web pages up until the end of the contest...)
The bare bones of search engine optimization (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The bare bones of search engine optimization (Score:2)
Seriously, I am sure at least 10 people will try and use the info in your links to rip someone off... it's a sad fact... but it's a fact.
We have a winner! (Score:5, Funny)
Who gets the prize money then? :-D
Everybody, link back here [slashdot.org]!
Re:We have a winner! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:We have a winner! (Score:5, Informative)
If you search for "here" on Google ... (Score:2)
... you get all those pages that people link to in "to view this file, download the viewer _here_" type links. Search result number one is the download page for Adobe Reader :).
See for yourself here [google.com].
Re:We have a winner! (Score:5, Funny)
If slashdot wins, does that mean we all get to share an iPod and a 17" LCD monitor?
Re:We have a winner! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:We have a winner! (Score:2)
Re:We have a winner! (Score:2)
Find information on nigritude ultramarine [slashdot.org] today!
How they do it. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How they do it. (Score:4, Insightful)
That is a load of nonsense. Studying the page in question shows you "on page" factors, and on page factors are only one part of the manner in which google determines results (and very arguable an almost trivial part at that).
You dont need to see why a phrase is in top position at the moment - as there is one factor that trumps all - anchortext (the text used as the link). Competitive phrases like search engine optimization [google.com] and their allinanchor counterparts [google.com] demonstrate this quite throughly, for any competitive phrase there is a very high corelation between anchor text and the results. Designing a site to get good search results at the moment involve desiging a site that uses internal links effectively and getting external links to your site - messing with on page factors (for a single page) will get you nowhere.
Re:How they do it. (Score:4, Funny)
Is it? My Slashdot ID is lower than yours, so I am right. Take that, Windows-using infidel.
Hack the contest! (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm planning on doing it, and I'm not a Google monster, but I'm not a Google slouch either; I have a pretty decent amount of Google juice for a one-man site.
Note that mostly likely, links from Slashdot to Slashdot won't count any, so no point in linking in comments here.
Re:Hack the contest! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Hack the contest! (Score:2)
Re:Hack the contest! (Score:2)
Don't be so cocky. It's not the amount of Google juice you have that matters; it's how well you spray it.
Re:Hack the contest! (Score:2)
Re:Hack the contest! (Score:3, Insightful)
nigritude ultramarine [slashdot.org] will help your nigritude [slashdot.org] get more ultramarine [slashdot.org] today!
Phew... (Score:5, Funny)
If I were google, I would wait until the day before the deadline and then link the top hit for nigritude ultramarine [google.com] to google.com.
In fact, to help them, I suggest that everybody who thinks that "SEO pros" are a life form somewhere below pond-scum and above spammers, ought to help them. nigritude ultramarine [google.com].
Re:Phew... (Score:2)
Do your part (Score:5, Interesting)
2.) Click on the "Dissatisfied?" link [google.com]
3.) Complain to Google about all the spammers.
Only you can stamp out spammers.
Show Google the power of the
I suppose... (Score:4, Insightful)
I like the ads (Score:2, Interesting)
Need Search Engine Help?
The Definitive SEO Resource
SeoDesk
Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.
Just an aside... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Just an aside... (Score:3, Informative)
Do a search for Indie-Mail (Score:5, Informative)
"DirectX SDKs" and I'm on the first page of results. Although it's going to the Distribution section (pay per CD) instead of the SDK download section which is free access.
"Digital Black Market" also gets me a spot in the top 20. I used to be ranked higher on that one.
Before the site wide overhaul I was ranked 2nd when searching for "Driver Library" but if you're looking for a specific file and I have it, I'll get a top ranking.
Google is currently reindexing my site. It'll probably be another month or so before everything is indexed as well as it was before. Last check there was about a half a million files on the web-site.
Domain, directory, file name, content is about the general chain of importance for getting a high ranking.
Ben
Re:Do a search for Indie-Mail (Score:2)
*'edjumacated' the name of one of the members, is top ranked.
*'shold gay marriage be legalized' is number 3
*'controversial pictures of iraq' with regards to the flags over coffins, is ranked second.
Nothing rediculously impressive, except that mirwin.net(the site) has only been up in its current form since mid January. Quite an impressive jump to the top.
Re:Do a search for Indie-Mail (Score:2)
There's huge numbers of sports handicapping sites out there, and the people who run them (besides me, of course...) tend to be scumbag scammers who like to manipulate google rankings.
However, for a few search terms I'm in the top 100 after only a couple of months of not doing much of anything.
Slashdot should win (Score:2)
you know, regardless of attempts to game the system, if every slashdot reader just linked to this slashdot story from their respective websites, then Slashdot would win easily with a standard PageRank. No amount of gaming the system can overtake sheer force of numbers. It's like the Howard Dean approach to raising money :)
I'm adding the following HTML link to my websites:
nigritude ultramarine [slashdot.org]
join me! and Slashdot shall prevail!
Re:Slashdot should win (Score:2, Interesting)
For instance, and this is just to prove a point, let's say the PageRank formula counts a link from CNN.com and MSNBC.com as equivalent to 1,000 links from a
"Optimization" (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole point of a "search engine" from day one was to help connect people with what they are looking for. To that end, the HTML "META" tag was invented, so that you could give keywords relevant to what your page is about.
Enter the marketing scumbags. They just want as many eyeballs to see a page, whether it's relevant or not. And so, in short time, the META tag became completely meaningless. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Google ignores the META tag completely.
And so Google started checking links, because if somebody links to some page, it's probably useful.
Cue the marketing scumbags again. Tons of fake pages with fake links, all intended to fool the search engine.
And so they keep trying to find new ways to fuck around with Google and all us people who just want to find what WE want rather than what some marketer wants.
And in typical marketing scumbag fashion, they call this let's-screw-google nonsense "optimization".
God I hate marketers. They're worse scum than lawyers, pimps and pushers IMNSHO.
Re:"Optimization" (Score:2)
Re:"Optimization" (Score:4, Offtopic)
In olden days, these kinds of people would have been dealt with by:
1. Tarring and feathering.
2. Being tied to a rail and getting run out of town.
3. Being thrown in a boat without paddles and left to drift downstream.
It's only in today's society, where these vermin have so many targets of opportunity (and the veil of apparent anonymity) that they can thrive, and not be thrown out. Even worse, it's only in today's society that these vermin can band together, hire lawyers and lobbyists, and start dictating to the rest of us, what we can do and what we can't do. The Do Not Call list was a good counter-blow, but they're still out there, degrading useful services like Google and e-mail for the rest of us...
Re:"Optimization" (Score:2)
Marketing and sales are all about how to get you to spend you disposable income in one place vs. somewhere else. If you buy stuff at Wal-Mart, then the folks at Target have failed. Being a failure sucks. Kmart has found this out the hard way - they are practically out of business.
So, without marketing and sales at all everyone's disposable incom
Wait a minute! (Score:2)
OT: Where do we go once Google turns evil? (Score:2, Interesting)
I used to like hotbot before they got eaten by Lycos. They used Inktomi's engine, which I think MSN licensed for a while.
nlsearch had cool features, but died out. (I think they sell their engine for enterprise use at northernlight.com).
altavista was cool when it was run by DEC (which got ate by Compaq, which was swallowed by HP).
next?
nigritude (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:nigritude (Score:4, Informative)
nigritude [reference.com]: Blackness; the state of being black.
Reminds me of (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Reminds me of (Score:4, Funny)
"the worlds dumbest webpage" (Score:2, Interesting)
Yay.
The funny thing is I have no idea how I got there.
"morons click here" (Score:2)
I had some search terms for that come up in my site stats last month. I tracked it down to a user on my forums who posted a link to Microsoft's support site that fixed something simple, and he linked the text with "morons click here." So now when you search for that term, Microsoft is the first entry.
-JemGoogle says: (Score:2)
what this will lead to ... (Score:2)
the bad part: there will be even more crappy Google results (we should give Teoma [teoma.com] a chance, since it can't be spammed as easily using links on irrelevant pages)
Here's how to do it (Score:2, Informative)
2) get people to link to it, with the query words in the link.
3) lots of people.
For example, google for "monkeys".
Top hit: bdmonkeys.net (my band)
Now if you look at that page, "monkeys" only shows up FOUR times in the source: the page name, the meta keyword, an IMG ALT tag, and the email.
Now google for "battle cry".
Top hit: the blog meme Chaz wrote that LINKS TO OUR SITE WITH THE WORD "MONKEYS".
561823649174 bloggers linking to you = top google position.
And from a moronic exercise (Score:2)
Have fought that war... (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, we now have the number one spot... but since we did nothing as far as increasing mentions on the other sites, the question arises how of how much weight Google really puts on external references to your site.
Here's where this is a practical problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Comments from the article submitter (Score:5, Interesting)
As alluded in the "Note to Slashdot Editors" (thought they would prune that), I first want to emphasize I have NO relationships with the folks running this content - I just think it is hilarious, although it will certainly provide some insights into how Google works, and we'll see all sorts of whacky things from the SEO pro's - again, I am not one of 'em.
Second, I hadn't thought about Slashdot ranking 1st for the contest as some have suggested - now that would be a crackup! Unfortunately, Slashdot won't allow you to place in IMG tag in a post (a requirement of the contest is a small image on the page), plus I'm not a member of the SearchGuild, so I'm not elgible ... maybe Cmdr Taco or Timothy need an iPod and/or 17" LCD - go for it! ;-)
Third, you know the folk at Google have gotten wind of this contest, and if I were them, I'd put a link on the main page to their own nigritude ultramarine page. I.e. Google should NOT tinker with their algorithms, but with a link from their PR10 main page, that certainly should shoot 'em up in the rankings. I gotta wonder if the pre-IPO Google would do this - we'll see with the "new" Google ;-)
Fourth, I appreciate some of the comments from folks about my Christmas Lights [komar.org] and the Christmas Webcam [komar.org] with webcontrol (yes, you can turn the lights ON and OFF via the web) which actually been on Slashdot before - in fact, you can read my Slashdot Effect Analysis [komar.org] from last year. I assure you it should be MUCH more interesting this year, as due to some multi-threaded optimizations, I think I'll be able to reduce the throttle from minimum 5-second updates to 1-second updates. I'm going to have to be REALLY NICE to my neighbors, 'cause it will be quite the flickering light show in December/2004 ... although I usually fire it up for a test-run in October as part of my Halloween Decorations and Lights. [komar.org]
alek
P.S. One thing slight off-topic is the Google Compute project [powder2glass.com] which I thought I mention to those Slashdotters with idle CPU time that want to help the Stanford Folding@Home project [stanford.edu] - this really is a good cause.
Re:Comments from the article submitter (Score:2)
Re:Comments from the article submitter (Score:2)
Re:Comments from the article submitter (Score:2)
Re:Comments from the article submitter (Score:2, Interesting)
I would like an ipod (esp now thwt I've discovered worthwhile stuff to put on it at rusc.com) or a monitor, sure, but not enough to upset the balance of the force
timothy
I am a nigritude ultramarine mercenary. (Score:2, Funny)
I'm not a member of the silly SEO guild, but all my Nigritude Ultramarine [stodge.org] can be yours! I have started an auction on eBay - anybody who seriously wants to win can pay me $1 (or whatever it comes to), and in return I will give them a few hundred links from my reasonably well-ranked sites.
You shall have my sword... I will fight for your honor!
Spelling errors (Score:3, Funny)
I don't recomend this. As easy and as tempting as it is Google feeds the correct spelling.
On that note I do get the highest ranking for "Linux Destro" A mispelling of Linux Distro (Not for long.. Noticed the error and plan to fix it.)
Now for a funny.. Take a look at the winner for the correct spelling.
It's not RedHat.
just ask (Score:2)
He seems to be at the top of all of my searches.
Google should fund this (Score:2)
Wish I knew how (Score:3, Interesting)
After I found out about my top placement, I started watching my log files and I was surprised to see how many messageboards have linked the image. Most of the image linking was pointless - just somebody found the image and linked directly to it, with no explanation of why it was applicable. Weird.
Re:Typo in story: Latter (Score:5, Funny)
PS I will put you in my friends list... (Score:2)
Also, no, I have not actually applied to win. I'm going to see what damage I can cause.