de Icaza: Rest of World Will Force US Into Linux 886
Eugenia writes "OSNews had an interesting discussion with Miguel de Icaza about all things Linux and Novell. Miguel talked about the general patent problem and how this will become the one single stumbling block of widespread adoption of Linux in USA, while he asserts that Longhorn uses some 'new' technologies already found on Gnome and elsewhere. Miguel believes that poor countries will be the first that will adopt widely Linux, and as long the EU won't adopt a similar system to US for patents, Europe will follow soon after, leaving no option to USA but to eventually adopt Linux as well in the long run (despite potential patent problems). Another strategy Miguel discussed was about moving as many F/OSS applications as possible to Windows in order to familiarize the casual users with open source. Among many other interesting tidbits he also mentions that Quark is now using Mono on Mac OS X." Of course, the EU not adopting software patents seems to be less and less likely.
Maybe Not... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, when is the last time you heard of a successful business person taking advice from a skid row bum?
And, yes, I know it sounds harsh, elitist, and rude, but it is the truth and we all know it.
Do not underestimate the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
The EU is becoming more and more unified every year, and the economy of Europe is quickly becoming simmilar to the economy of the US, where you can compare a European country to a US state.
United States:
Total GDP (2002) - 10.4 Trillion $
GDP/head - $37,600
Ranked 1st (countries)
European Union:
Total GDP (2002) - 9.61 Trillion
GDP/head - 21,125
Ranked 1st if counted as a single country
Europe is coming up fast... not to mention China and India. The days of the US as the economic superpoer of the wolrd are numbered by just abount any metric you use.
The European Union is not "Europe" (Score:3, Informative)
The "European Union" is not yet "Europe": about half of the European countries, and more than half of European territory are not even part of the EU.
Re:The European Union is not "Europe" (Score:5, Informative)
The EU is now 450 million people, just two weeks ago it was 380 million. In 3 years it will be 480 million when Romania and Bulgaria join. Then it will be just Switzerland, Norway, the Balkans. I suspect Russia will never join and it be a good few years before Belarus and Ukraine join.
In 50 years the EU is going to be a unified superpower and the EU and Europe will be synonymous. Hopefully they won't forget the reason for it existing in the first place.
Re:The European Union is not "Europe" (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldnt be suprised if Denmark breaks away too, possibly taking the rest if Scandinavia with it.
Germanic cultures will then find itself isolated with Latin countries to the West, poor ex-communist states to the west, and independant states to the north and south. Cant imagine Germany will hang around when its having to bankroll everyone elses peasant economy.
After that, I think its Britain's turn to invade France. Or maybe Germany's, its hard to keep track these days.
Re:The European Union is not "Europe" (Score:3, Informative)
It's all going very quickly at the moment. Too quickly, it feels like a railroad and people don't like being railroaded. The UK won't withdraw, but the constitution will be rejected if we get a vote. The Eurocrats will have to wait.
Give it 10 years, the ink hasn't even dried on the Euro notes yet.
Oh, and it'd be the bloody Balkans again.
Re:The European Union is not "Europe" (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget, even the United States has trouble getting along with itself. Not just the political parties, but the North and the South still see each other as "separate but equal". Just because you belong to the same state/country/alliance doesn't mean you'll get along.
Re:The European Union is not "Europe" (Score:3, Informative)
Europe has been plagued by war for thousands of years, each more bloody than the last, the First World War, largely played out on the battlefields of Europe killed millions, on an industrial scale, 9 million soldiers and 7 million civillians are the estimates. The Second World War was even worse.
Wikipedia has a good article on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:3, Funny)
But just try ordering component parts (English keyboard - $25) for computers from one country (England) to have them delivered to another country (Brittany, North West of France), and see what reply you get. Even though the distance is less than 200 miles, and the transaction could be done just as quickly, by driving
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't blame the store - blame all those lads trying to get stuff shipped to Nigeria, or the UAE, or any one of a dozen other third-world crime holes.
It's about 10 gajillion times easier to just flat out say "No foreign cards or deliveries" than it is trying to train up a gormless local to spot fraud. Costs a hella lot less, too.
And don't forget that most UK businesses will have no way of verifying your name and address as they relate to the card's genuine holder.
All in all, I'm glad that you can't just use any card from any country. It's a pain if you're living in Brittany, but I'm sure you've found numerous things that make up for it. I'll trade the ability to painlessly buy a keyboard for your rail system, for one.
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:3, Informative)
European Union GDP $: 11.50 trillion Per Capita $: 25,300 Pop: 454,900,000
United States GDP $: 10.40 trillion Per Capita $: 37,600 Pop: 290,343,000
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:3, Funny)
Ah, but the US - she does not use the metric system.
Do not OVERESTIMATE te EU... (Score:5, Interesting)
They recently enlarged their government so much that their effectiveness has been reduced many times. What used to be a small organization that could react fairly well is now a cumbersome organization that spends hours giving each minister his time.
Plus at this time a lot of the newer countries are poor. This puts a lot of load on the EU and will seriously test it.
Unfortunately I think the EU is soon to be bogged down in its own government just like the US is. The issue is worse as they can't even settle on a Constitution that is viable.
As for the article, Linux isn't going to happen until the business community is convinced that the apps are here and will be supported.
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, yes.
Do you think that a weak country could even begin to get close to their size of what they owe the rest of the world? US interest rates are insanely low (~1%) and they still lend them money. Not a sign of what people think is a weak country.
Re:Do not underestimate the EU (Score:3, Interesting)
Read out loud. Slowly. NA-TIO-NAL DEBT BUD-GET DE-FI-CIT And you still think the US is such a great economic power?
Too true. But to the rest of the world I say EX-PORT ECO-NO-MIES, TREA-SURY NOTES, UN-EM-PLOY-MENT.
You are not creditors, you are partners! -- Donald Trump
The money's moving (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The money's moving (Score:5, Interesting)
Every netbar I went to (and they're a lot more popular in China than the states) was running Windows. I didn't even see "Red Star Linux" while I was there. Maybe it's more of a government thing or somthing. Makes sense, security wise.
Don't let those articles from a while back about China "adopting Linux" fool you too much regarding the situation on the ground.
Re:The money's moving (Score:5, Informative)
I think you have the direction of dependency reversed. The Economist, among other sources, regularly bemoans the fact that the world is far too dependent on being able to export to the US, the "consumer of last resort". If the US were to abruptly cut its imports by enough to eliminate its trade deficit, there would be some pain; but the economies of countries like China and Korea would suffer far more.
At the present time, the US economy is just about ten times the size of the Chinese economy. Assuming that China can outgrow the US by five percentage points per year (say 8% growth to 3%), it will take 48 years for China to "catch up". And the Chinese government is already trying to scale back their current growth rate, realizing that it is not sustainable. China may be the next big market, but it will be a long time before that market is comparable in size to the US.
Unfortunately, we may all get a chance in a few years to see what happens when the US has to make big cuts in its spending habits. The US consumer "engine" appears to be driven by debt, both public and private, and the situation will have to change.
Re:Not to mention (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux will only become pervasive in the US after companies have seen other companies make it work (and make it work better than Windows) and be profitable. Once it's proven itself, adoption by US companies should be easier...at least to newly formed companies. Some existing companies are still using mainframes, so I doubt they're going to be switching over to "The Next Big Thing".
--trb
All that needs to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, while the U.S. sucks for console games, it rules the PC game market. So I don't know how likely it is for games to be a way for the world to force the U.S. into OS compliance...
Also if De Icaza gets his way this won't happen.. since Icaza's glorified-Wine mono project is more likely to lead to crossplatform games than linux-only ones...
-- Super Ugly Ultraman
Re:All that needs to happen (Score:4, Insightful)
I was discussing this with a friend over dinner the other night. once games are released for Linux as well as Windows (UT2004, for example, and the forthcoming Doom 3), gamers need only be shown Linux GL benchmarks before they'll happily switch to a Linux 2.6.x system for 5-10FPS gains over Windows.
Re:All that needs to happen (Score:4, Interesting)
It needn't even be Linux
Re:All that needs to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
- Require a reboot
- What if you need to patch the game ?
- What if you need drivers for hardware (ie video cards) that came out after the CD ? Or updated drivers ?
- What if you want to run a third-party application (ie Roger Wilco) in paralel with your game ?
- Where and how do you save game ?
- How do you use/apply mods to your games ?
- How do you manage networking (setting, patch, etc)
There's probably more, these are just those I can come up with in 30 seconds.
Re:All that needs to happen (Score:3, Insightful)
All of these are neatly handled by requiring a USB port and a USB flash drive to store settings, patches, drivers, etc.
A reboot and/or parallel applications is not a big pro
Re:Maybe Not... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Worrying reliance on OSS (Score:3, Informative)
But someone who uses Firefox, Thunderbird/fox/whatever, OO.o, Gimp, etc on Windows will have a MUCH lower barrier to switching away from Windows when the time comes. Suddenly that Windows upgrade may just turn into a Linux install with
Metric System (Score:5, Interesting)
They just didn't force people to stop using the units and measures with which they were familiar.
Coming from a science/engineering background, I *hate* working in traditional/avoirdupois/empire units.
On the other hand, it feels unnatural to talk about the weather in anything but degrees Fahrenheit. I've tried. I have plenty of European relatives. But centigrade's units feel too "big" and awkward.
Re:Metric System (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it the American thing where 'bigger is better' or what? That's what always confused me on why we don't adopt the metric system. Base 10 is so natural to use, not this base 12, no, base 3, no, base 5280, no, fractions baby! Is it a math teacher conspiracy or what?
I dropped out of college to stop my brain from exploding when I went from a physics class that was full metric to an aerospace engineering course that was all 'english' measurement. When a prof or whatever popped up and said something about a 'slug' being an measurement of atmospheric pressure I thought I was going to die.
Re:Metric System (Score:3)
Pay taxes on stamps, tea, and sugar? Out went the British. Regulate alcohol? Whiskey rebellion [wikipedia.org] and the first problem for the new government. Constitutionally prohibit alcohol (Prohibition)? Americans responded with Joe Kennedy and Al Capone. Sign says 55MPH? We'll drive 65MPH. Don't mandate what we can and cannot do.
When a vehicle, applianc
Re:Metric System (Score:5, Insightful)
For most long distance trips I figure 60 miles/hour on average (I drive fast, my kid needs stops). That works out to... a mile a minute.
More precision. Calculate that.
Re:Metric System (Score:4, Funny)
I hear some really clever mathematicians have come up with this cool idea called "decimal notation", though, which lets you use any unit you like to measure things with infinite precision. I wonder if it'll catch on?
Not in the good ol' US of A. Here we use fractions and like 'em. If God thinks Pi=3 then so do we. Real numbers are a work of the Devil, promulgated by the French.
Re:Metric System (Score:3, Insightful)
I've lived in several metric countries, they all get along quite well with integeral Celsius weather reports. It's always irritating when I read some story where it's obvious some editor or reporter has taken a round figure in one system a
Re:Metric System (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Metric System (Score:4, Interesting)
My dad thought metric was horrible until I gave him a 5-minute explanation and then asked him how many grams of water are in a cubic meter, and he was able to answer. Then I asked him how many tablespoons are in a ton of water, and he decided that metric had something going for it after all.
My father-in-law thinks it's funny that I never remember how many cups are in a pint, or some other weird conversion. To him, it proves that people don't learn as much in college as they think they do.
Re:Metric System (Score:3, Insightful)
In the real world, you'd be deciding whether to make it 31C or 32C. Incidentally, that'd be for a hothouse.
Re:Maybe Not... (Score:5, Insightful)
The US isn't exactly known for following the rest of the world. Think of the metric system, for one...
Well, the metric system has made inroads here. It's patchy--you buy liters of Pepsi, but gallons of milk. In certain occupations, though, it's the lingua franca.
Linux adoption will probably be equivalent. It'll be here-and-there, except in areas where it's omnipresent. And that's a good thing, as it avoids a software monoculture.
Re:Maybe Not... (Score:5, Funny)
Didn't some comedian say that the two major successes of the metric system in the US were the 9mm bullet and the kilo of coke?
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh huh... (Score:4, Funny)
Umm, yeah... because that worked so well with the metric system.
Re:Uh huh... (Score:5, Funny)
After all, we're only ordinary men.
Re:Uh huh... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Uh huh... (Score:4, Interesting)
After all, we're only ordinary men.
Holy crap! Someone makes a joke about a comment using a pretty well known, 30+ year old Pink Floyd line and it gets modded Insightful instead of Funny. I always thought those guys were great lyricists, and this looks like conclusive proof to me.
Rock on all you Floyd fans!
Canada's worse (Score:5, Interesting)
When you're buying a house, the property size is measured in metres. However, the interior measurements are all given in square feet.
I know my height in feet and inches, but my driver's license lists it in centimetres. Funny, because I measure my skis in centimetres.
I buy meat in the store by the gram or kilogram, but my microwave asks me how many pounds is it when I want to defrost it. Of course I know my weight in pounds.
Construction materials are measured in feet, while I drive in km/h. I pump litres of gas into my tank, while I purchase hard booze in ounces. But beer, water and soft drinks are sold in millilitres.
I read the outside temperature in celsius, and I set my thermostat in C, yet my oven is set in farenheit. At least, all the recipes I have do (some ovens have both C and F listed).
We're pretty damned confused up here.
Re:Uh huh... (Score:3, Insightful)
Quite a breakthrough.
A great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux needs to improve to become a better desktop OS.
Many organizations do not use Linux and F/OSS becuase they have not been certified for use with their profession, like accounting etc. So there needs to be certification of Linux and F/OSS products. If the organization doing the certification is in the pocket of MS, fat chance of that happening.
Re:A great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
In the good fight with Microsoft, we must use every advantage we have. Coverting OSS packages to work on windows is a killer because Microsoft can't do it without aiding us! If we have applications that work across a variety of platforms, then we have a selling point that Microsoft doesn't. However, if they tried to do the same thing - for instance, porting Office to Linx - that would only benefit us anyway. So it's win/win for us and lose/lose for MS.
Win win for MS (Score:3, Interesting)
More Linux developers porting software to Windows = more software for Windows.
At the same time I'm sure MS is not going to arrange things so that more Windows developers writing software = more developers writing software for Linux. Remember Java and MS JVM? This time
And don't forget, Windows comes preinstalled on many x86 hardware. There is no need to instal
EU software patents. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:EU software patents. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:EU software patents. (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, most of the people in the Parliament directly responsible for this directive were pro-software patents (as the whole purpose was to legalise software patents, and not "clarification" and "harmonisation" like the Commission claims). Let's hope indeed the next Parliament will be ready to show its teeth if we can't get the Council to reconsider.
PS: Here's the whole codecision procedure [caliu.info] in pseudo-java. I wonder whether this means that the "underlying principles and processes" of it should be patentable as well...
The new market for the 21st century (Score:4, Interesting)
The rest of the world... (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't see this changing.
Re:The rest of the world... (Score:4, Insightful)
The advantages of linux and the like extend beyond price alone. Linux did not exist in a viable form when the windows empire took hold of the states, but it has a fighting chance in some of these new markets. While I doubt that linux will ever reach a point of domination similar to what windows has gotten, (honestly, would any reasonable person want it to?), it will force a lot of interoperability efforts on behalf of MS.
Evolution Win32 (Slightly OT) (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been trying to get them off Outlook/OExpress for ages (for safety purposes) but most refused to go to Thunderbird as it was "too different"
They can hardly say that about Evolution.
Re:Evolution Win32 (Slightly OT) (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Evolution Win32 (Slightly OT) (Score:3, Insightful)
Not sure. Most are already using Mozilla FireFox because it's simply better than IE 6, but we don't use OpenOffice as we all have copies of MS Office. Personally I dabble in linux a few times a year but never found a compelling reason not to go back to Windows.
The problem Linux faces in our situation is that Windows 2000 *just works*.
Re:Evolution Win32 (Slightly OT) (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly the same problem here.
I've tried to get our administrative staff to switch to Thunderbird.
Really just for safety reasons. (because our email addresses are in many attachment-clicking-OE-users' addressbooks, and it takes only one non-attachment OE-exploit to infect our staff's computers)
However after a week they told me in unanimity they wanted to switch back to OE.
Naturally, I asked: Why? Doesn't Thunderbird do everything OE does too? (and better, like filtering and searching)
They answered: Well, yes that's true, but it's still different!
So grudingly I had to switch them back.
Moral of the story: We need a better Outlook skin for Thunderbird.
it's up to everyone else, not us... (Score:2, Interesting)
But the problem is that it is NOT "good enough". Just because OSS zealots think it is does not mean that it is.
When I can open every single one of my Word and Excel files without a single error then it will be "good enough". The missing features, etc, are one thing but not having the exact replica of what I saved in Office is a hassle.
I agree with
Re:it's up to everyone else, not us... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:it's up to everyone else, not us... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:it's up to everyone else, not us... (Score:2, Interesting)
Because Miguel de Icaza is unbiased? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course someone deeply involved in the Open Source software movement is going to say that Linux will become the dominant system. It's in his best interest to say that.
Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, Craig Mundie, etc. all feel that Windows and Microsoft software will be the dominant platform. Steve Jobs thinks that Apple and OS X will be the dominant platform. Is this really news?
The more interesting question is if de Icaza *really* believes that Gnome and Mono are going to be the dominant desktop. I know as the founder of the project, again it is in his interest to say yes. I just wonder if he's tried to use a KDE 3.2.x system and what his impressions are of it?
Biased, but a true believer (Score:3, Insightful)
Do as I say, not as I do?? (Score:4, Interesting)
It always bugged me that Evolution was not available for Windows. I'd be more than happy to ditch Outlook, but a good alternative does not exist. The Mozilla family is not a good alternative.
I hope that this means we'll see Evolution and others ported to Windows in the near future.
"US" is one entity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Russia and China (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Russia and China (Score:3, Insightful)
No, thats the US. China and Russia are strong but nothing compaired to the US.
>China, as we have seen went out of their way to develop an alternative DVD standard
So did BestBuy.
>And they almost went their own way on WiFi too.
The US has gone their own way with alot of standards. They "did", not "almost".
The Third World (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article:
Poor countries don't have the money to buy and maintain Windows; this is where open source software is becoming a real and powerful alternative," he said.
OK, but if they are too poor to maintain Windows, doesn't that also mean that they are that much more open to pressures and special "deals" (to ensure lock-in) from Microsoft?
*** marker *** (Score:5, Funny)
Posts utilizing the LAMSA _above_ this marker may also be moderated Redundant, but you may not beat the poster for more than forty five minutes at one sitting. Thank you. Have a nice day.
Re:*** marker *** (Score:5, Funny)
I think it's more effective to spank someone with a yard stick.
~Will
Re:*** marker *** (Score:3, Funny)
Meter sticks, being 9.3% longer than a yard stick [google.com], are actually the best tool for effecting punishment.
Once again, the metric system is demonstrably superior. Have a nice day. :D
Cross-Platform (Score:5, Insightful)
Business.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Thats not to say though that I haven't had my share of problems- cant get tv out working nicely, or 5.1 sound, or my OpenGL working right...
But for sitting down and doing research, coding and web activites, I'm finding Linux (i'm using Mandrake 9.2 btw) is more productive for me than Windows.
And when it comes to business, productivity is a significant drawcard. Due to my new found fondness of linux and OSS this week, im thinking that OSS will win users over due to it's increasing quality moreso than patent issues.
Gut reaction (Score:4, Informative)
First, I will admit that I didn't RTFA yet, so let's get that out of the way. Mod me down if you don't like it.
That said, I would say that the US is unlikely to adapt a standard just because the rest of the world has. Witness:
Re:Gut reaction (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Gut reaction (Score:3, Insightful)
I missed one arbitrary difference: US mains is 60Hz, while most of the rest of the world is 50Hz. This ensured that - even if the whole world had agreed on a single TV specification - it would still be incompatible with the US.
Why is the US 110V 60Hz instead of 220V
Microsoft might prefer piracy over Linux usage... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes and No (Score:5, Insightful)
Metric vs. SAE
... and a lot of other things
But then this weekend something happened that changed my mind on the future of Linux. I downloaded Knoppix 3.4 and stuck the CD in a friend's WinXP box with a failing HD. WinXP wouldn't boot. Knoppix "just worked". It auto-configured all the hardware (a Dell 4550 series P4) and allowed me to back up most of this person's data to a CDR.240V 50Hx vs. 120V 60Hz
Drive on left vs. drive on right side of the road
EBCDIC vs. ASCII (IBM vs. everyone else)
This is the kind of thing that will make people take notice of Linux. They want a car that they can turn the key and drive away. People don't want a car that needs to have the engine tuned before they can drive it off the lot. Or one that they actually have to read the owner's manual.
They want an computer that auto-configures and is intuitively obvious to use. Knoppix 3.4 is a step in that direction.US and EU patents (Score:4, Insightful)
In the US it is all too possible for something to be well established prior art, but an inventor claims to have made the invention prior to the first date of open publication. Having been involved with both US and European patents until about 1995, I considered the US system to be deeply screwed - the opportunity for fraud is immense. (though yes, that didn't stop me from filing US patent applications...)The EU system should not be so bad.
If this still applies, the important thing is for all ideas and concepts being brought to the OSS table to be published as soon as possible after they arise, thus creating prior art even if it is only in a very buggy bit of code.
Of course, if the US gets the entire IP world to rely on "date of invention", we're all screwed, and I'm going to buy a farm and retire.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Law of unconsidered consequences (Score:4, Interesting)
This will backfire, as it forces innovation out of the US.
Honestly, I expect Europe to follow the US lead. The same corporations that are doing this to the US are also well entrenched in Europe. So in effect, we're pushing innovation to India and China, the new growing world economies.
Misconceptions (Score:3, Interesting)
Missing Points (Score:4, Insightful)
First, F/OSS is only as good as it's user input. If you use such software and gripe about it's this-or-that, but never submit even these quirks to the dev team, DON'T expect the issues to get resolved any time soon. The dev team, unlike major corporations, doesn't have the ability or capital to test and develop on a wide scale.
Second, on a lower level, I doubt Microsoft would be up for offering deals to poorer economies, lock-in or not. If they offer WinXP Pro to Uraguay for $50 a license, the American businesses that got the "Special Business License" for $75 would start whining. That's just something they don't need to deal with. In such case, I think MS will continue to treat the market as a whole in the manner they always have.
Third, in relation to the productivity of an application or OS, I would haard a guess that one is more productive when one goes into something (e.g. a new OS, a new F/OSS app) expecting to BE more productive. I tried the Firefox browser a few months ago, and hated it. Coincidentally, I expected to hate it because it wasn't IE. A month or two later, I tried it again, with a more open mind, and lo and behold, it's my current favorite browser. Same idea for C++/C# IDEs - from VC++ 6 to some no-name F/OSS IDE with ero problems. It's all relative.
So as far as a mass migration to Linux, it's anyone's guess - but I think it's a bit too early to be calling it Linux's game. Too many branches, and a whole new system to learn, seem to be a bit daunting for the average user. Wait ten years until Linux certification really gets a firm footing in the industry, and until the weaker Linux flavors drop off or conglomerate, and we may have some good competition.
who says? (Score:3, Informative)
I think there is just a few faulty assumptions here, as well as some mis-applied logic. For example, "MS is evil" is a subjective opinion, and not really fact. If it wasn't for MS and windows, I don't think computers would be quite as widespread as they are now. "The US will follow the rest of the world", while at times they should be doing what the rest of the world is doing, the US will do what it wants, for better or worse (proof: metric system, Iraq)
Competition vs Cooperation (Score:3, Interesting)
On one hand competition is good and it may happen that it helps further adoption of free software, improvements in both Evolution and Glow and all that. And we hope both remain standards-based and interoperable.
But at this point, we aren't strong enough to compete much, we already have too much duplication of efforts like in the whole KDE vs Gnome mess, and the BSDs vs GNU/Linux vs Hurd one.
Worse yet, he is happy that Sun users get less goodies! This is simply Not Good. Whatever Sun motives may be, this is not a good thing in itself. It would be much better to work with Sun to address its concerns, but then de Icaza already proved he would rather follow his own path, like he already dissociated himself from copyleft and the FSF because he didn't like the focus on ideas over pragmatism.
And perhaps that's nice about Sun doing their own stuff: it's copylefted and they have copyright assignment. Not only Glow may prove a safer choice (legally speaking) than Evolution both to users and developers (if Sun ever frees Java, or makes it run good on free JVM implementations), but Sun is getting used to free software and copyleft. Free Solaris and Java anyone?
The balance could tip (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't ignore the immense coercive power of the US corporate presence around the world. While China is certainly in a position to make up its own mind without major interference, that certainly isn't true of Malaysia, Taiwan or just about any state in Africa or South America. Don't believe for a moment that the US has any intention of letting Third World countries grow their economies to the point where they become serious competition in any way.
The US entertainment industry in concert with Microsoft are already moving to tidy up the First World (the impending FTA in my own country, Australia is just one sad example), and while they don't seriously think they can enforce their will entirely on piratical Asians, they can certainly change their business environment by owning ours.
We are certainly at a crossroads: if the US can enforce its will via specific treaty with poorer nations (as it has already done in several arenas), then Hollywood, the RIAA and Microsoft will be eagerly adding new provisions to the demand letter. I have no hope for Africa or most of South America, but I do hope that the joint project of China Korea and Japan bears fruit and gives hope to their necessarily satellite neighbours. That's really the only hope we have of rolling this Darkness back.
I disagree (Score:3, Insightful)
I do feel that linux will take over though, but it won't be because of pressure from interoperability. Eventually, Microsoft will buckle like the UNIX companies and begin distributing their own linux distribution with as full Windows compatibility as linux can get (insert macro virus joke here). People will say it sucks but use it anyway because it becomes preloaded on most retail machines and businesses will continue to prefer it. MS will get most of its revenue from infrastructure consulting, hardware and Office sales, and console game licensing, and will be able to move farther into the highend server arena.
Re:de Icaza and software patents (Score:3, Insightful)
> Actually, the same criticism applies to all these big name open-source advocates.
Right, RMS is in it for the $$$:-)
Re:Havn't I heard this before? (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, but unlike the Metric system, Linux offers actual benefits.
Linux benefits: Free, open, stable, secure, easily modifiable. Saves billions of dollars and reduces dependence on single vendor.
Metric benefits: Measures everything relative to a single lump of iridium kept in Paris and on the incorrect original French calculation of the size of the earth. Good if you really like the number 10... except for time... and angles.
See, the metric system's benefits, while of course they are great, aren't rea
Re:Havn't I heard this before? (Score:4, Interesting)
No it didn't work, but the rest of the world cares not for the backwards, stone-age measurement systems used by the US. Instead of persisting, we just point and laugh when the US talks of feet and inches.
The US won't be the world's super power forever, once they're second or third for a half century, I'm sure they'll make efforts to fall into line.
Re:Havn't I heard this before? (Score:5, Insightful)
Joe Six-Pack in the U.S. doesn't usually need to use the metric system in his life, so he has no incentive to change over to it. He DOES however use the internet regularly, and his company may do deal with some overseas companies. If Linux is adopted overseas, all it means it that interoperability will probably have to be maintained between Linux and Windows. Once that happens though, managers in the US may start to see the cost savings, and switch.
On the other hand, as long as the interoperability is maintained, there is no incentive to switch.
For instance, if the U.S. was REALLY serious about moving to the metric system, they should offer incentives to Juice/Bottle makers too only put out things in metric containers (instead of a Half gallon of milk/Juice, go get a 2 liter contianer). They should also mandate that all gas pumps should be switched to the Liter instead of the Gallon. Those two things alone would bring the Metric system into the average persons, life in such a dramatic way that it might foster adoption (one they get past the resentment that things have changed
Re:Havn't I heard this before? (Score:4, Insightful)
And at the same time, avoid pissing off the rest of the metric world by spelling litre properly. I know "liter" is an accepted way of spelling litre, but it just looks wrong IMHO.
Re:liter/litre meter/metre (Score:3, Insightful)
Other changes for metric adoption (Score:3, Interesting)
Lumber - 5x10's instead of 2x4's (a 2x4 is not even 2 inches by 4 inches) and metric lengths.
Carpeting/flooring etc - sell by sq meter instead of sq yrd.
All scales sold must use metric as Primary unit (they could also give the archaic english units)
There is a lot more use of the metric system in the US society than you might think at first glance. Those people working in anything to do with chemistry are likely using the metric system in their work.
I don't think the US will ever adopt the kilome
Ah, not the largest market anymore. (Score:3, Informative)
There will be a couple of years of turbulence as the economies are integrated but unless the US swallows Canada and Mexico it's going to be playing second fiddle in the mid future.
Re:Hello! World to Miguel! (Score:3, Insightful)
"Another strategy Miguel discussed was about moving as many F/OSS applications as possible to Windows in order to familiarize the casual users with open source."
It is not easy to move Linux/Unix stuff to Windows. It is expensive - costs the developers time and effort, and there are other costs supporting a rather different architecture- look at the various apache-win bugs. And what does that gain Linux and the rest? More Wind
Re:Nope. (Score:4, Interesting)
The huge risk in not migrating is not being able to satisfy your customers while your competitors do.
If your clients decide TCO is compelling, then it doesn't matter what you think - someone will be there to support them, and someone will be there to send them documents in formats that work well for them, or take their data in formats you can't handle, or whatever is relevant to your business.
That's how Windows and Office came to dominate in the first place: Some people saw a benefit, and they got a domino effect from partners, customers etc. that may not have seen a direct benefit, but saw a benefit in interoperating with people who had taken the leap.