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Super Maps for the 21st Century 101

Posted by CmdrTaco from the you-can't-get-there-from-here dept.
Roland Piquepaille writes "After five years of trials, Craig Knoblock and his team at the Information Sciences Institute of the University (ISI) of Southern California, have developed Heracles Maps, an easy-to-use laptop package to optimize routes in the whole world for both military and business travelers. This news release, "A SuperMap for Soldiers -- Or Business Travelers," says that the application integrates various sources of geospatial information, such as satellite imagery of mapping data. From this data, soldiers can easily find a safe route between two locations without being seen or shot from an enemy in another location. this package can easily be adapted to civilian applications, such as a powerful travel planner. You'll find more details and references in this overview."
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Super Maps for the 21st Century More

Super Maps for the 21st Century

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  • Um...great? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by James A. S. Joyce ( 784805 )
    Isn't finding a path from one location to another, taking into account terrain, changes in weather, means of locomotion and ease of travel a fairly difficult AI problem? I find it difficult to believe that a handy "Super Map" will solve the problem."

    • Re:Um...great? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by BarryNorton ( 778694 )
      Yes, that's why the soldiers natural intelligence is used for this task - as it has been since the day of the Ancients - this is a tool that integrates information useful to the choice.

    • Re:Um...great? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Ianoo ( 711633 )
      Yes, but AFAIK, it's actually one of the best understood. Check out the A-Star Search Algorithm [wikipedia.org], which I think is quite widely used.
      • Searching for routes in a collection of roads is a discrete graph optimization problem that people have put lots of work into. Searching for routes across arbitrary terrain is much more complex, and the math's different.

        For instance, if a road is zigzagging up a hill, and you're in a car or tank, the road is probably your best route. If you're on foot going uphill, it might still be your best route, or it might not. If you're on foot, cutting off the curves and going straight down might be a better rout

    • Didn't you say just yesterday that you'd had enough of /., and Michael in particular, and were cancelling your subscription?

      Or was that just another bit of sh*t-stirring?. Yeah Mod me down, GNAA mods, my karma's at heights you can't even conceive of and I meta-mod daily.

    • Re:Um...great? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @11:25AM (#9413557) Homepage
      There's a flip side to this. If one side uses software to determine a transit route, the other side can use the same software to guess where enemy combatants might try to transit. Position dusters, quad 50's and claymores as appropriate and remember that the side marked FRONT TOWARD ENEMY points away from you.

      I would avoid any path a computer marked out for me the same reason it's a good idea to avoid trails.

      • any technology has the potential to be turned against you. What's your point?

        this is just a nice way of data mining different map sources, and making the most out of it.
        the technology doen't make the right decision/choice, this will still be in the hands of human commanders. though it will be a handy tool for strategists. imagine a strategy, where you actually Do Not choose the best/shortest/fastest root, but a rather non obvious, and possibly seen by the enemy as being too much of an disadvantage to per

      • Re:Um...great? (Score:3, Funny)

        by SEWilco ( 27983 )
        There's a flip side to this. If one side uses software to determine a transit route, the other side can use the same software to guess where enemy combatants might try to transit. Position dusters, quad 50's and claymores as appropriate and remember that the side marked FRONT TOWARD ENEMY points away from you.

        So, knowing the enemy would know the recommended path, and that is where the enemy will be sending troops to set the traps, send troops or munitions to hit the trappers.

        Of course, troops sent to tr

  • isn't this just an application of the travelling salesman problem? I thought that problem was NP...isn't it? If someone's found a cool way to solve it, care to share a link?

  • sed time (Score:3, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:15AM (#9412830) Homepage Journal
    s/soldiers/invaders/g

    • s/soldiers/liberators/g

      Do you call all soldiers invaders or just those that aren't welcome? If that's the criteria then they aren't invaders of Iraq because the Iraqi people have welcomed the change that has come about since Hussein is no longer in power. Only a few small groups continue to fight the inevitable and they are the very ones we are trying to get rid of.

  • Uhh, what if both sides have the product? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jdawg ( 21639 ) <[moc.cam] [ta] [fmj]> on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:16AM (#9412834) Homepage
    I mean, will the software generate the same suggested route given the same input conditions?

    "Ok. We know they're here. And we know that they think we're here. So...their software is going to tell them to take this route..."

    • Re:Uhh, what if both sides have the product? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Not a problem if you have version 6.00.2800.1409, and the enemy only has 6.00.2800.1277. J00 0wn3z d3m!

      Make sure you turn off/mute the assistant! Hearing "You appear to be trying a sneak-attack.." from the bushes always causes bad reactions from people.

    • I mean, will the software generate the same suggested route given the same input conditions?

      The software is only a small part of such a system. You also need good methods for acquiring and distributing data. If you know that a bridge is destroyed or that a lake is no longer safe for vehicles, the software may give you a different route than the other sides software.

    • Re:Uhh, what if both sides have the product? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sql*kitten ( 1359 ) * on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:49AM (#9412994)
      "Ok. We know they're here. And we know that they think we're here. So...their software is going to tell them to take this route..."

      Consider GPS - for a long time, the US military alone could use the system to its full precision, third parties received less precise locations. Not less accurate, true, but still not as good as the military. That's what could happen here - any "export version" of the software would be more predictable than the version that the US military itself uses. 'Course, they'd have to be careful that they didn't provide the tech now to a friend who becomes an enemy later...
      • Gee, so let's say we poor foreigners get the "export" version of the software, that would really limit us, wouldn't it? After all, only American programmers can write really good Software - just ask Linus ;)
      • Not quite. The civilian version of GPS was as precise as the military version, but considerably less accurate. I used to get a great deal of innocent amusement out of watching the puzzled looks on peolple's faces when their GPS was giving them their position to the metre, but it kept dancing around 100m at a time.

        And if you were consulting a large-scale map at the time, you could see just how inaccurate the very precise numbers coming out of the GPS were.

    • ...or not. Many other factors decide on the battlefield. And not all soldiers are able to use their equipment with same efficiency.

    • If the software suggested routes away from the enemy for both sides, I guess we would call that "peace"

  • Automatic enemy avoidance? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrRTFM ( 740877 ) * on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:19AM (#9412848) Journal
    I dont think so.
    If I were a soldier I wouldn't trust a route from a laptop. Not unless I knew exactly when it was told where enemy 'C' was located so I could allow for movements.

    And of course, there is the whole beta testing problem - imagine a squad of troops walking through an 'empty forest' which just happens to contain a platoon of troops (Enemy 'D') doing an exercise not picked up by the spy satellites.

    I'm not saying this is bad- I think its great, but no soldier will ever blindly follow the route it plots.
    • Well, you don't think that'd be a problem under normal circumstances anyway?

      Last I checked, moving troops were usually done through territory not occupied by enemy forces, and if you thought the forrest was empty, what's the make you think otherwise, just because you don't have a "super map"?

      Barring a leutenant with a map of course ...
    • If you were a soldier? If you were a soldier you would have known how they train soldiers on maps. Just a plain old stupid paper map. Nothing on the map indicates where an enemy currently is. They expect you to use some common sense when moving in hostile territory and not drive around with your sub woofers blazing In Da Club at 200 decibels. When soldiers are using laptop based maps its the same fricking thing. A static map that may be a little more current than a paper map. But guess what, if your b

  • Topographical improvements... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dotslashconfig ( 784719 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:20AM (#9412858)
    From what I gather, there are governmental organizations in most countries that are responsible for maintaining roads and highways. If you were able to get various countries to release information about actual speed limits/lengths of these roads, you could calculate efficient ways to circumvent troublesome regions.

    In addition, with the implementation of GPS/laser terrain detection, you could implement the commercial air travel aspect of such a 'Super Map'. After all, we have laser and GPS guided tomahawk cruise missiles. Wouldn't the terrain detection be almost the same. And in that vein, wouldn't it be an easy leap to apply that functionality to a wide range of vehicles?

    I think it's true, more now than ever, that a lot of technologies we're seeing become available to commercial applications were developed with military uses in mind.

    If nothing else, it's good to see defense spending can have a nice turn around, and that developing bonds between same-purpose organizations accross the world is finally taking a step in the right direction.

  • fast notebook? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Tolar ( 225621 )
    The main challenge was, the scientist earlier wrote, that information "obtained from various data sources may have different projections, different accuracy levels, and different inconsistencies. The applications that integrate information from various geospatial data sources must be able to overcome these inconsistencies accurately, in real-time and for large regions."
    i wonder what kind of notebook u need for that? Athlon 64 ?
    • So much for hidding from IR detection...

      OK, I "see" them.

      No, they do not appear to locals. With that heat bloom, they are using using XXY Notebook, with AMD 64, 250G harddrive...

      Oh, there is 802.11A signal, must have just rebooted...

      That is it, Windows XP! They are NOT locals. NOT LOCALS! The locals in this area use SuSE.

    • Re:fast notebook? (Score:2, Informative)

      by MoonChildCY ( 581211 )
      A projection transformation doesn't take that much CPU power. I did projection transformations on huge datasets, and it only takes a few seconds on an old trusted P2. It's just simple math really.
      • I think you may be incorrect. The maths actually isn't simple at all. If you are doing some rubber-sheeting (which would involve a simple affine transformation) you amy be correct, but transformations from one one figure of the earth to another (which is what would be required when you are trying to overlay disparate spatial data sets) are quite complicated. You'd probably (to get reasonable, but not great, accuracy) be using a Molodensky transformation (7 parameters iirc), then some sort of best-fit griddi
        • You know... you could have used PROJ [remotesensing.org] to do it, and get it done really fast.

          There are some people out there that dedicated their time to create programs that can do pretty much any transformation imaginable, in a very efficient way.

          And correct me if I am wrong, but the transformation you refer to is to the datum, not to the projection, isn't it? Datum and projections are enirely different things, therefore they need entirely different transformation algorithms. And yes, datum transformations tend to

          • If you are only transforming between different projections on the same datum, things aren't so bad (although I think you overstate how quickly it can be done for large data sets). However, most areas that military users would be interested in will be covered by mapping of wildly varying scales, data quality and datums. This is where things get computationally expensive.

  • Killer level design (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:24AM (#9412880) Homepage
    this package can easily be adapted to civilian applications, such as a powerful travel planner.

    Travel planner? I was thinking more applications like a big MMORPG. (Wasn't the Pentagon working on one, reported on Slashdot a while ago?)

  • In the future dads all over the world will say... (Score:3, Funny)

    by jwcorder ( 776512 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:26AM (#9412889)
    "Damn you super maps! Now I am super lost!"

  • Some restrictions apply (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    All invading armies will have to make connections in Charlotte and a Saturday stopover is required.

  • Great free map downloader (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fuctape ( 618618 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:31AM (#9412910)
    I've always enjoyed using JDM Cox's 'USAPhotoMaps' for free: USAPhotomaps [jdmcox.com] -- it downloads terraserver images, allows zooming, panning, path overlay, and spot marking, among other features. Good stuff.

  • One question... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hiro Antagonist ( 310179 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:32AM (#9412911) Journal
    Do you turn them on by saying, "I solemnly swear I am up to no good." -- ?
  • we need to give these maps to the workers of the postal service.

    Then, perhaps, I could get my mail on time.

  • Soldiers or Business Travellers (Score:4, Funny)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:33AM (#9412915)
    Given the current state of things, isn't that redundant?

  • Oops! It got shot... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Paster Of Muppets ( 787158 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:45AM (#9412971)
    So picture the scenario: Squad of blokes inside enemy territory, one carrying this laptop to find a safe route back. Stumble across enemy patrol, firefight in which laptop is hit and is now useless. Result: Still need to take hard copy (paper) maps, so laptop would be very inconvenient in this respect. Satellite recon could tell you where the enemy was in real time, and transmit it to the squad by radio, and squad would not need to carry laptop around, thus saving on pack weight!

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:46AM (#9412979)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Even if the path Mapquest gives you is not the optimal one, it is still an extremely valuable resource for trip planning in unfamiliar areas (though Yahoo maps is really better, especially because of its excellent yellow pages integration). I don't know how I ever got anywhere without Mapquest. In a situation where you are at war in an unfamiliar area and you can't go around asking the locals where to go, something like Mapquest could be a lifesaver, literally.

    • I don't know if you have tried using say, Mapquest's. If you have, you might have been in the mood to say "Mapquest is on crack". The directions are a good attempt, but aren't anywhere near effective.

      The online direction and mapping tools are indeed lacking but the standalone packages are quite impressive. Garmin's Metroguide is really nice and coupled with a GPS makes travelling in an unfamiliar city much less stressful in my experience. But, I'm the nerdball you see driving down the road with GPS on th

    • It is a bit unfair to compare it with MapQuest, since it tries to do better by taking into account how dangerous areas are, for example it could consider that a forest is safer for infantry.

      It is pretty obvious that pathfinding that takes into account danger is better than pathfinding that does not, esp. if you have ever played Command and Conquer like me and seen your harvesters trying to move through the enemy base to reach resources on the other side of your base. ;-)

      I expect you would have settings fo

  • Service "unavailable" just where you need it... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by samfreed ( 572658 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:49AM (#9412996) Homepage
    Being an Israeli, I sorely remember when commercail high-quality satellite became available. Quick phone calls ensued between Israeli & US government, and suddenly highest-resolution pictures of Israel became "unavailable" [space.com].
    Shutter control restrictions on the space photography of Israel were inserted into a Senate bill in 1997. Drafted by Rep. John Kyle (R-Arizona) and Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico), the law imposes restrictions on imaging Israeli territory during certain periods invoked by the Israel government.
    I assure you that the "periods" are continuous.
    Talk about living under big brother's nose!

  • But is it worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by theLOUDroom ( 556455 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @09:54AM (#9413017)
    "A computer with a bullet in it is just a paperweight. A map with a bullet in it is still a map."
    -Maj. Keith Hauk

    • "The network is the computer."
      --Scott McNealy

      If you have a few small PDA-size computers which all have the software, redundancy can save you from this problem. I suggest PocketPCs (or similar) with biometric identification which are self-scrambling (or -destroying) if left unattended for a sufficiently long time.

      • If you have a few small PDA-size computers which all have the software, redundancy can save you from this problem.

        Great! So instead of carrying around one small, light, flexible map the soldier gets to carry around THREE brick sized PDAs.
        That's not a solution in my book.

        I suggest PocketPCs (or similar) with biometric identification

        I would REALLY strongly suggest against that. Think about it: I shoot a soldier from behind, run up, grab his PDA, and use his fingerprint to log right in.

        Biometric
        • Biometric doesn't automatically mean thumbprint. I was thinking something more like voiceprint. You could also use a camera with a fixed focal length to do a retinal scan, and include a white LED for a response test so it won't work if they're dead.

          As for making the unit self-destruct if not paid attention to often enough, this is only logical in my opinion. We ought to do it with more equipment. It might be good enough to have it self-destruct under other circumstances, like if someone unauthorized tries

          • I was thinking something more like voiceprint.

            In a war, you generally want to aviod making unnecessary noise. It can get you killed.

            You could also use a camera with a fixed focal length to do a retinal scan, and include a white LED for a response test so it won't work if they're dead.

            Or you could just use a password through the normal user interface of the device. No lenses to keep clean, etc, etc.

            Biometrics are great for situations where a person does NOT want to be identified (finger prints a
        • I wonder if Panasonic would make a PalmOS-based PDA ToughPalm, or similar? I mean, Garmin has a good PDA, with GPS and mapping software, Could you throw a thicker case around the PDA, put a cover over the screen(a la sony viao laptops) and seal it from water leakaged?

    • A map with a bullet in it is still a map.

      Not just any map, a holy map.

  • ...soldiers can easily find a safe route between two locations without being seen or shot from an enemy in another location. this package can easily be adapted to civilian applications

    Knowing the general neighborhood of USC, I suspect the ISI developers tested this application by finding a safe route to their own work. A sucessful test meant no bullet holes in their car upon arrival.

  • Civilian application? (Score:3, Funny)

    by jellybear ( 96058 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @10:29AM (#9413220)
    "From this data, soldiers can easily find a safe route between two locations without being seen or shot from an enemy in another location."

    So, will the civilian version make it so that, from this data, drivers can easily find a safe route between two locations without being seen or pulled over from a pig in another location?
    • Only if you can haxor the lojack network and add in a module to support that data... That does sound absolutely scrumptious however.

      Anyone know if it's possible to detect a lojack signal from the ground, and if so, how close you have to be? :)

    • "From this data, soldiers can easily find a safe route between two locations without being seen or shot from an enemy in another location."

      I'm no soldier, but I don't like being shot at either, I hope they keep the "safe route" check in the civilian version...

  • Here are some details about the concept of Heracles Maps.

    Decades worth of detailed, accumulated geographical information is now available to front-line special operations troops in a concentrated, portable, easy-to-use laptop package created by the University of Southern California.

    HeraclesMaps can instantly solve life-and-death tactical questions like, "Help us find a route from point A to B where we cannot be observed (or shot at) by someone at point C."

    It can instantly dissect the geography of a city,

  • Best map (Score:3, Funny)

    by nebaz ( 453974 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @12:31PM (#9413994)
    I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.
  • So this is the what they used to get Neo out of The Matrix.

  • Looks Handy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dark Bard ( 627623 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @04:08PM (#9415262)
    "It can instantly dissect the geography of a city, showing users the electrical power grid, all rail, roads, pathways, and and other man-made features, plus much more both in map and photographic form." Does it come in Arabic?
  • This is only the beginning, a laptop of > 1Kg is still going to be too bulky and heavy for the frontline soldier.

    I predict later re-incarnations will be on flexible computer screens that weigh nothing and roll up to fit in a pocket easily. They will also be automatically updated from external data sources, such as information on latest weather, troop movements and terrain conditions; from unmanned drones, low orbit satellites and intel.

    Later it will be part of a small computer integrated into a soldie
  • Remember: this package is voice operated. To start it up you must say "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good". And to shut it down, say "Mischief managed".

  • The military... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The military already uses similar software. The various functions like getting to point A to point B without being shot are just used as tools by an analyst to help develop courses of action. Arcview is a similar product available to civilians. The only thing that is new with supermaps is that it appears that is has all the images/maps/data precompiled so that you don't have to hunt stuff down from NGA, formally NIMA.
  • Some comments seem to question the computational power of the notebooks. Now, if it were possible for them to be buildt to be extremly tough, reliable, and able to effectivly compute the needed data without being too big/heavy/power needing/detectable, then that would be best. But if not, couldn't the computing be done somewhere else? All they need send is their location, destination, and conditions affecting travel. ex. over loaded transports. If they are constantly updating each other of their position, a
  • You can easily and accurately get to any point on the planet as long as you remember to take that left turn in Albuquerque!
  • We just got a lecture at our schoool (The Jerusalem College of Technology) by a company that implemented that same technology, Geosym Systems.

    http://www.geosimcities.com/

    Perhaps if they would provide virtual streets, we could provide buildings, and we could have a virtual 'net a la SnowCrash.

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