Auto Manufacturers Running Out Of Unique IDs 567
wakebrdr writes "Y2K all over again? A story in today's Detroit News explains how the vehicle ID numbering system (VIN) will soon run out of unique numbers. According to the article, a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers says, 'Longer codes would require a major overhaul of computer systems that would dwarf the challenges and expenses spawned by the Y2K computer dilemma.' Golly, if it's that serious maybe I should start stocking up on MREs and ammunition in preparation for the day the assembly lines come to a screeching halt."
Extend the character set? (Score:5, Interesting)
How about extending the allowable characters in a VIN to include certain ASCII or Unicode symbols? Perhaps make them case-sensitive? That would preserve uniqueness--at least for awhile longer--although it might make the codes harder to verbalize (i.e. to an insurance agent).
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Funny)
I *knew* we'd find a use for Dingbats Font someday!
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:2, Insightful)
Might work. I doubt if any of the code tries to manipulate it as a number. (Unless there's a checksum built into it.)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, one way to expand the VIN number set would be to alter the check-digit algorithm to create a second, parallel numbering space.
For example, if model year 2005, use the old algorithm and increment by one position for the new checksum, and recycle the SAE codeset.
Wash, rinse, and repeat to expand VIN space 30-ishfold.
Yes, it'd break systems that have the check-digit algorithm hardcoded, but VIN verification systems have to be updated regularly anyway to deal wit
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Funny)
Unicode, baby (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:4, Interesting)
For instance, a bit can be taken from the existing set, which if 1, indicates "an extended code follows". Then you can add as much as you want, since it's just a freakin' data stream.
Realistically, anything that causes a car company to alter its design, specifically to redesign to accomodate a change in standards, is something they'll complain about. However, if they can leverage the change into something "featuriffic" for the customer -- like being able to design your own watchpoints in the car's codespace and other stuff like that -- then they can merrily design it up and just as merrily make it into a good-paying option.
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:3, Informative)
extend alphas Re:Extend the character set? (Score:3, Insightful)
this is not rocket science, and civilization will not die.
don't forget the handwriting (Score:4, Interesting)
Dealing with handwriting is why certain characters were eliminated. Think of error correcting/preventing codes. The check digit really only existed to prevent the casual abuser from falsifying warranty claims and VIN tags.
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Interesting)
Computer systems today still handle VINs of less than 17 digits with no problems, provided they've been designed correctly.
So just expand the VIN field by adding a second field of, say, 6 more digits. Vehicles with a VIN of 17 digits or less don't have anything in the second field, those with more than 17 digits do.
The overflow field doesn't even have to be in the same table - just a lookup to see if there's an entry there for the VIN.
Or make the first character of the VIN an arbitrary value - say 'O' (the letter 'o', not the number zero, which means "Made in USA", 2="Made in Canada", 3="Made in Mexico", J="Made in Japan, K="Made in Korea", etc... The letters 'I, O, and Q' are forbidden in the current VIN scheme, as they are too easy to confuse with zero and one. Tell the software that anything beginning with an 'O' should be searched for using the new, longer VIN.
Heck, you could even use a zero, since nobody uses it as the country origin code.
As I said, it's not that big a deal, as we've been there before.
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, who knows how much of a problem this is; Y2K turned out just fine, though it did take quite a bit of work to make it so...
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Insightful)
The concept is not new - I stole it from "Database System Concepts, 2nd Ed. (c) 1991, Korth and Silberschatz", though they used the concept of "overflow blocks" for storing values that clash in a hash, and I'm using it for looking up the extended version of a vin (if it exists).
This way, since the original tables are not altered, existing queries that do not deal with the extended vin are not affected, and there's a lot less debugging to do - and a lot fewer areas where bugs can creep in.
The sql statements that do lookups of vins are the only ones that would have to be modified. Not a complex task, since the vin itself (in a properly-normalized database) is not the primary key, but rather gives you back an oid (object id).
Same problem with SINs, which are also not unique in every case.
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is obviosly why they are looking at this issue now, so in 10 - 20 years when the current numbers are gone, software can be ready for any new scheme (cause that's about how long it will take.) Hopefully BECAUSE of all the code rewrites for Y2K, this task will be much easier (many old systems were completely replaced in modern languages with modern coding techniques.)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Informative)
The society should contact people who work on a day-to-day basis writing code to handle the non-standard vins (pre-1980). In my case, I've already put in handlers for post-2008.
Now, since all current systems ALREADY handle vins that are not exactly 17 characters long (pre-1980) by relaxing the validation schemes and enabling extra user input options, not pre-determining the model year, etc., there's not as much work as you would seem to think.
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, with the myriad of computers involved in DMV systems, parts management, etc, I can see how the programming part of the matter would be very difficult.
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of 1,056 WMI codes available to U.S. manufacturers, 594 remain, according to SAE.
One solution that will be considered when the committee votes on a final recommendation in September or October is to reclaim WMI codes that are going unused in other regions.
More than two dozen countries, from Armenia to Zimbabwe, have up to 288 WMI codes each. All are dormant.
The group may also reclaim WMI codes from U.S. trailer, motorcycle and other manufacturers no longer in business. SAE doesn't have a precise count, but such defunct companies could be the source of enough WMI codes to supplement another 30 years of use, said Steve Ezar, manager of government and industry standardization at SAE.
Another possible solution: the WMI code could be revamped so that the third digit, which now indicates brand, will be freed up to denote different information.
For example, a VIN beginning with 5G1 now describes a Chevrolet built in the United States, while 5G2 identifies a Pontiac.
But in the future, 5G1 could be used to cover all GM products, freeing 5G2 for -- perhaps -- another manufacturer.
We have to rewrite before 2009 anyway ... (Score:3, Informative)
Remember - you heard it here first (PS - I already solved this problem for one piece of software by having a drop-down select box that lets you choose the year range - pre-1980, 1980 to 2008, 2009 and up. User se
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:3, Informative)
Also, the article makes a serious error:
SSNs are not necessarily unique. There was a series of letters exchanged on this very subject in The C User's Journal a decade ago. This is just something that the g
Re:Extend the character set? (Score:3, Informative)
I worked for a barcode reader manufacturer for a while and we got calls from people wanting to use our scanners in just that way, because ours use Bluetooth, and you don't want to deal wi
Slashdotters response: (Score:5, Funny)
If I were them (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If I were them (Score:5, Funny)
Those symbols are usually reserved for use *after* the accident with the uninsured driver.
They do, sometimes.... (Score:4, Informative)
The problem is not that duplicates will occur, it's that the year number will repeat starting in 2011. The 7th character (from the right) denotes the year, and anybody can see, this means that it loops over every 36 years. Not particularly good planning, methinks.
One simple solution is to recommend both use of all 36 chars in the serial number and to denote the first character of that number to be a character never used there before by most manufacting companies. In most cases, car companies rarely use anything above A or B for the first character of the serial, so for some this will be easy to work around. For others, it may be more difficult as they'll have to change their own internal coding scheme for the serial.
Most probable change is that the characters for countries (first character) will be stolen, like happened with 4 and 5 for US cars.
Re:They do, sometimes.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's the complete table 1980 to 2039.
Re:They do, sometimes.... (Score:3, Informative)
Darn formatting. Here it is corrected. Sorry, my fault :-(
Otto wrote:
No, it starts repeating in 2009, not 2011 (for the 2010 model year), and repeats every 30 years, because the letters I, O, Q, U, Z and the number Zero are not used to denote years:
Re:If I were them (Score:2)
Carmageddon (Score:5, Funny)
*Duck and cover*
No way! (Score:5, Funny)
from the articles picture (the vin number) (Score:2, Informative)
VIN: 3P3ES47Y8XT528059
Year/Make/Model: 1999 PLYMOUTH NEON HIGHLINE/EXPRESSO
Body Style: Pillard Hardtop 4 Dr
Engine Type: 2.0L L4 SMPI DOHC 16V
Manufactured In: MEXICO
Re:from the articles picture (the vin number) (Score:3, Interesting)
No need. Carfax has a free service where the basic details come up before you pay for your report on the VIN. Also, people with a subscription can get details on any number of cars for the sub period. Since I just bought a car for my sister, I have a sub... here's a snippet of what carfax says about this VIN:
Good (Score:2, Interesting)
Slashdotters were (rightfully) up in arms a
Re:Good (Score:3, Funny)
Fight the power!
Re:Good (Score:3, Informative)
- Aren't necessarily unique, as some NICs are programmable;
- Aren't government-mandated;
- Aren't illegal to change;
- Aren't illegal to hide or otherwise obfuscate.
Your comparison really fell on its face. Care to try again?MACs only have to be unique on the same segment. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
Bad (Score:3)
Whenever I buy a car, the first thing I get is the VIN so I can check the car's background. This is invaluable. A central registry about cars has many advantages.
Re:Good (Score:5, Interesting)
Because they have an interest in making sure that that vehicle is safe to drive (safety inspections). Also, it makes it a little more likely that your car could be recovered if it were ever stolen. Also, I believe (not certain) that VINs are global, voluntarily created by automotive manufacturers; therfore, they wouldn't be just a US thing. Furthermore, the gov't provides all the roads on which you would be driving. The gov't identifies your car by its license plate. You give your VIN when you register your car so that there is something else to match it against other than the plates if it is stolen, in an accident, etc.
This is no different than other government-mandated identity programs such as Social Security numbers.
Yes it is. One has to have an SSN in the US, no matter what. One doesn't have to own a car (well, in some instances one DOES have to own a car, but people in a large enough metropolitan area don't have to).
Not to get tin-foil-hatty,
too late
but if you've read books like 1984 or studied leaders like Hitler, you will know that programs like this (even if they start with the best of intentions) end up going way down the slippery slope, usually with disastrous results.
A VIN isn't going to lead the SS to your door step. No one knows the VIN on a particular automobile unless they are standing right next to it and looking right at where it is printed. Now if you smash your car into a bus load of orphans, and you flee the scene on foot, then maybe the cops could check the VIN to see to whom the car is registered, and then come arrest you later. Of course, they could just as easily check the license plate.
Slashdotters were (rightfully) up in arms a few years back when Intel planned on embedding unique IDs into their Pentium III chips. Yet we blindly accept VINs and other intrusions into our privacy without question. Why?
Maybe, just maybe,
Probably some truth to that. (Score:5, Funny)
I had a lot of issues getting it registered and insured, although in most cases it was just a training issue -- the people I was dealing with didn't know how to enter it correctly.
The Massachusetts RMV had no idea what to do with an odometer in kilometers though, so my title says 9,999,999 miles on it.
Re:Probably some truth to that. (Score:2)
Re:Probably some truth to that. (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously it's not a ford.
Could be... (Score:4, Funny)
Obviously it's not a ford.
Well, it could be - probably right after the purchase he had to roll it backwards a few feet to get it up on the blocks.
Re:Probably some truth to that. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Probably some truth to that. (Score:5, Funny)
I hope you changed the oil.
Re:Probably some truth to that. (Score:4, Funny)
So multiplying by 0.62 didn't occur to them?
Re:Probably some truth to that. (Score:3, Interesting)
(a chair? horsewhip? cattle-prod? Brain-implant?)
to get them to input the number correctly?
I went thru that once a looong time ago, with a 6 digit vin on a motorcycle, and I was never able to get those @$$#0!&$ to budge off their asses. Finally had the local police department make up a vin#, with the 6 digets in the middle of it, and they took that.
Can you tell my blood pressure still Chernobyls at the memory of that whole farce?
DMV Training (Score:5, Funny)
It puts the numbers in the correct boxes, or else it gets the hose again.
Alternate Slashdotter's response: (Score:4, Funny)
Y2K (Score:2)
Use More of the alphabet (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not just give GM, Ford, and Chrysler another letter? GM can have G and H, Ford E and F, and Chrysler B and C
Surely every manufacturer doesn't produce as many cars as the top few
Re:Use More of the alphabet (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, it's two characters for country... (Score:5, Informative)
The whole first three characters (known as the WMI) get assigned by the SAE, according to whatever-the-hell-system they feel like using. They just happen to assign it certain ways.
Google for "VIN Country Codes" for the complete list.
Re:Use More of the alphabet (Score:3, Insightful)
How inefficient do you have to be to blow through a 17 character (which is not the same as a digit, Mr. Author) alphanumeric code in 30 years? They did have the good sense to throw out I,O,Q,U,and Z, something I wish other alphanumeric codes would do, and used a check digit. If used to it's full efficiency, the VIN system could identify 121 trillion vehicles for every human being on the planet.
The article is stupid. It talks about this is a big problem, compares
VIN numbers as SSNs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:VIN numbers as SSNs? (Score:5, Informative)
You could recycle numbers within one year; if a 2005 car got killed in the first year of its life, they could make another 2005 car with the same VIN, but that's probably not going to help much...
all too common issue (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not sure... (Score:4, Interesting)
2005 must = ... 5 (Score:2)
<grrr>
Umm.... that will be $250,000 in modifications (Score:5, Funny)
alter table VEHICLES modify column VIN varchar(50);
Yup.. that took countless manhours.
Re:Umm.... that will be $250,000 in modifications (Score:4, Insightful)
Every program which parses the VIN will be confused by a change in the format. Again, more code scanning.
When any two databases pass VINs to one another, they both have to use the same standard.
Once the code is fixed, you have to install it on every computer. You have to synchronize the database update and the code install, and every set of databases that hook up with each other. You can make things compatible enough to be prepared to communicate with non-upgraded databases, but that means more code, and more testing.
You have to test the bejeezus out of it, too, because some of these systems can't afford to crash.
So the change is going to be a lot more expensive than one SQL query.
Let me clarify... (Score:5, Informative)
Since the article wasn't clear on this, and a comparison with Y2K was made.
The current VIN system is local to the US (and probably Canada, not sure). Other countries do not share the VIN system/database/namespace. Sure, the manufacturers are located all over the world, and there's a unique ID for country of manufacture, but the VIN numbering is only mandatory for vehicles in the US.
Other countries have their own numbering system (usually a chassis/SL No.), and their databases are built around their unique identifiers.
So yes, their proposed solution is feasible, because right now, there are Country codes assigned to countries which will most likely not export vehicles to the US in the near future. But the comparison with Y2K is off because of the fact that this problem is local to the US.
Re:You're wrong (Score:4, Funny)
Is this the perfect
They could mix up the alphanumeric rules a little (Score:5, Insightful)
As a software developer for a gargantuan insurance company, let me assure you that I would be rather grumpy (to say the least) if I came into work one day and was told we have to overhaul our VIN-handling code. That would suck. Royally.
However, automakers could start mixing some alphas into the numeric vehicle-identifier portions of VINs...this could provide a few million (at least...too lazy to do math) more string combinations, and wouldn't affect the parts that IT people care about.This is dumb... (Score:3, Interesting)
Wait, what part of this should be surprising? (Score:5, Informative)
They designed the system in 1981.
They expected it to last 30 years.
So that's... until 2011?
And now they're saying it'll run out around the end of this decade. That'd be about 2010-2011ish, no?
Sounds like everything's going according to plan.
Re:Wait, what part of this should be surprising? (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds like everything's going according to plan.
It's too bad the plan sucks.
So many cars in the world... (Score:5, Interesting)
I know they had made a lot of cars, but that many?
Re:So many cars in the world... (Score:5, Informative)
EG: characters 4-8 are body style/features/engine/type/etc and 10 is the year.
I'm sure a car from 2004 will have any of the similar features of a car from the 80's, so there goes 1 whole factor, down to 26^16, I'm sure if you went through the other characteristics it would narrow it down even further.
Re:So many cars in the world... (Score:4, Informative)
26?!
Umm, let's talk about 26 letters (A-Z) - I'm assuming these systems are case insensitive... plus 10 numbers (0-9), I'd say that would make it 36.
Perhaps they could dramatically increase their potential name-space by making the VINs case-sensitive. That would allow 62 possible characters per place.
IDEA!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Ewww, ewwww...quick, rename it VINv6, adopt the change, talk about it for years on end, scare folks with the apocolyptic visions of a VINv4 disaster, implement sparingly, even have some Finish dude incorporate it into his own car line he started from scratch(obviously stolen from Ford ideas) and have absolutely NO ONE use it due to their legacy cars!
There is a technical solution (Score:3, Funny)
Your car would not have its own VIN while traveling. To get to your destination, you "tunnel" your vehicle into the back of a flatbed truck. Your vehicle would be packaged into the flatbed truck along with other vehicles. Once your vehicle arrives, it would be unloaded and you would take it alone to finish the local part of the trip.
Ooooooooh well. (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, the VIN problem will affect a larger number of computers than the Y2K problem. There are, of course, the few big manufacturers, who keep track of parts and whatnot. There are thousands of dealers, and perhaps tens of thousands of auto repair facilities. Then, of course, there are all the governments around the world that keep track of auto registration. All of these locations use VIN numbers in various ways, be it for record keeping, tracing design decisions and parts, locating parts for repairs, etc. Now imagine that all of these locations, some very big, and some very small, need new programming because of a change to the VIN system. And this change will affect all of these locations at the same time, not from time to time as with date rollover problems. Further, most auto repair facilities use computers and programming that they obtained years ago, and who knows if the software vendor is even around anymore. The source code is probably long gone for many of these applications.
The problem is that the VIN numbers are being used up as new vehicles are being manufactured. When the last VIN is gone, all of these systems will have to be up to date for the change, and that means a lot of money spent on new computers, new programming, and whatever trouble it takes to convert old records to the new system, which will have to be backwardly compatible with the old VIN numbering system.
Let this be a lesson: Whenever a unique number is needed, let's use about 40 digits in a base 36 system, consisting of letters and numbers. That'll cover us for a while.
Good for speeders! (Score:5, Interesting)
I had recently upgraded my car and my home state lets you move your license plates to your new car as long as you sell your old one at the same time. Fortunately for me, the state hadn't gotten around to turning my '68 Mustang into a '92 Prizm and the patrolman copied the information straight from the computer to the ticket.
When I received a summons in the mail, I disputed it with the cause being that I was in a '92 Prizm and did not even own a '68 Mustang, and the complaint was completely dropped.
The moral of the story: if I find out that I share a VIN with an Edsel on blocks in some farmer's pasture, then the police will have to use a spectrometer to measure my speed. I'll be driving my "get out of jail free" car until the sonic booms shake it apart.
Stocking up (Score:3, Funny)
No, it's time to stock up on VINs. Anyone want to buy the rights to 4S6RN38F94L296406 ?
If I remember correctly... (Score:3, Informative)
If I remember correctly the left 11 digits are used for make, model, production location, model year etc.... ---the 8th digit from the right is the model year alpha-numeric 1-9 + A-Z they skip 0, I, O and Q (L = 1990 and S=1995)
They could become case sensitive with the year, or use mor characters in the ASCII table.
I thought the last 6 digits were supposed to be unique, except it doesn't make sense since I have never seen letters there (maybe there are) and that would have broke after 1 Million cars.
They could just reassign the letter used for the manufacturer and start over with the year code. This doesn't sound like it has to be that big of a problem for them. Do all GM's have to start with 1G and all Fords with 1F and all toyotas with 1T?????
OT but what about credit card numbers? (Score:3, Interesting)
They can't tell a 1981 Buick from a 2011 Buick? (Score:3, Informative)
Bad analogy in article (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, you use the VIN to seach for details about a vehicle in a database, its not there to build a vehicle out of, which is the essential purpose of DNA for humans.
Secondly, you can't use a DNA sequence to seach for information about a person by simply typing it into a form somewhere on the net.
And then there exists the fact that there exist humans with the exact same DNA. Identical twins, for example, have the same genetic code.
They should say something like "a VIN is to a vehicle as an SSN is to a person." Even though the SSN is only in the US, its still a better analogy in comparison.
The answer is obvious - VIN portability. (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares if it completely neuters the data model, is hard if not impossible to implement, and results in massive confusuion and overhead nightmares, it's the in thing to do, making all these pesky numbers portable.
Come to think of it, my VIN already is portable, I put a few hundred miles on it a month.
Hello? (Score:4, Funny)
Unlike telephone companies, which simply created new area codes to cope with a surge in households, cell phones and fax machines, ...
Simply? Donchya just love it when a complex problem can be dismissed with that simp... er, ... single word?
We're running out of area codes too [com.com].
Then there's large metro areas that have switched to 10 or even 11 digit dialing. Say you move to such a place and you take your phone with with you -- you know, the one with all your those numbers programmed into it by your wife -- and you need to add the area codes to all of them. Going the other way, some (many? most?) areas that only use 7 digit dialing and you gotta remove the area codes.
No big deal you say? Chances are it's her phone and she lost the manual. Or maybe it just seems to always happen that way.
Then there's area code splits. I'd hate to be responsible for any sizable contact database when that happens.
Good thing that phone numbers can be dealt with so simply.
:^j
OK, show of hands: how many of you know two or more VINs? Good. Now all you smart asses put your hands down. Ah. I see one hand up in ... I think that's Montana ... and there's three in North Carolina. OK, hands down.
Now, how many of you know three or more phone numbers?
[earth's orbit shifts slightly]
Thank you.
patent opportunity (Score:3, Funny)
Dwarf Y2k? LOL (Score:3, Informative)
Besides, there are all kinds of ideas in the article itself for getting around it, including many small countries that don't even produce vehicles that use VINs that are taking up a lot of the numbers. Cars build before 1981 didn't even have a standard, each company made up their own VIN numbers. The systems still have to account for those, so we could always go back to the old system. Many cars are out there now with duplicate VINs.
There is LOADS of redundancy (Score:3, Interesting)
Character 10 is the model year.
The last 6 characters are the serial number.
Unless a manufacturer makes more than 999,999 each of about 33^4 different models per year, I don't see the problem.
Re:CRY! (Score:5, Interesting)
2004-07-17 Sat - GPS Receiver Almanac Rollover, 256 weeks after GPS 1024-week rollover.
2004-12-31 Fri - 2004/366 - cf. 1996-366.
2005-??-?? ??? - "Some *really* old versions of UNIX (e.g. 16-bit BSD) die in 2005.".
2005-11-29 Tue - 04:53:20 UTC : 212 Gs from JD 0.0.
2006-03-29 Wed - Solar Eclipse, Brazil - Africa - Turkey - Asia.
2006-12-31 Sun - HP3000, End Of Life.
2007-01-01 Mon - Lithuania joins the Euro?
2007-01-01 Mon - "USA FAA computers fail, 32 years from 1975". TZ? 2006?
2007-08-09 Thu - CMJD 54321.
2008-01-19 Sat - 30 years before 2038-01-19 - mortgage look-ahead?
2008-03-23 Sun - Easter Sunday is unusually early this year (previously this day in 1913 & next in 2160; earliest, March 22, 1818 & 2285).
2009-01-01 Sun - NOAA: Termination of satellite processing of distress signals from 121.5/243 MHz emergency beacons. Use 406 MHz.
2009-02-13 Fri - 23:31:30 GMT is UNIX time_t 1234567890.
2009-09-09 Wed - 090909 is another possible valid nonsense or marker date; as with, of course, other 0x0x0x & 1x1x1x dates, or anything with YY small.
2???-??-?? ??? - Introduction of the Euro in the UK ???
2010-01-01 Fri - Y2.01K. There will be some who have coded only for Years 200#.
2010-01-01 Fri - Sorting YYMMDD decade-reversed covers 1990-2009 only.
2010-01-01 Fri - Reported ANSI C library overflow. Very dubious. RSVP if you can explain it.
2010-12-25 Sat - CMJD 55555.
2011-09-14 Wed - @01:46:39 UTC less leap seconds, GPS 999999999 seconds.
2011-11-11 Fri - Seen as a "marker" date - cf. 1999-09-09. Contains 11/11/11 11:11:11.
taken from: Critical and Significant Dates [demon.co.uk]
BSD (Score:4, Funny)
See! BSD is dying!!
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:5, Insightful)
This will last 30 years, no problem... (Score:3, Informative)
But in 2011, the year loops. That's the only problem, really.
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:5, Insightful)
- a claim that the VIN system was created in 1981, and expected to last 30 years
- a claim that the numbers could run out by the end of the decade
So, they expected it to last 30 years, and now somebody says it'll probably only last 29 years and you say, "I really hate to see somone that points out that 'It'll Last for X years' and it never does.'I don't know about anybody else, but if 23 years ago, someobdy engineered a system that was expected to last 30 years...and they were only off by one year...I'd cut them some slack.
Granted, they should've thought about what would happen after thirty years, but they probably did. In fact, they probably thought long and hard about it and decided either:
(a) we'll all be teleporting everywhere by then and cars won't matter anymore; or,
(b) we'll all be retired by then so who gives a rat's ass.
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:3, Interesting)
Your clear, concise understanding of technology issues is only undermined by the minor fact that you screwed up all of the examples that you gave. 1) The "640k" quip is a misunderstood urban legend. 2) There's nothing wrong with IPv4 which is why there is no rush to switch it out. 3) The fact that pretty much everything kept running on 1/1/00 even though most of it was never touched for an "update" suggests that maybe it wasn't a big deal after all.
On the subject of IP, the only inherent problem in IPv4 wa
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to nitpick or anything -- but no. IPv4 allows for 4 billion (and change) possible addresses: 2^32, minus a bit for addresses which aren't usable for various reasons. "Digit" is not a synonym for a possible address.
OK, yeah, that was nitpicking, but since I've seen at least two people make the same mistake in this thread, I wanted to point it out
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:3, Funny)
Excellent idea except for the problem that make universe takes a really long time to compile.
Re:I for welcome our new VIN invaders (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Uh-oh (Score:5, Insightful)
The various companies formed an IT standards committee and came to an agreement on extending the numbers. It took a year or two, but the systems got converted and life went on. It really wasn't that big of a deal. As a bonus, a real standard for data processing showed up. The previous number scheme was designed for paper and allowed for certain variations which gave computer systems a fit. e.g. Sometimes the number might be written as AC23 or simply 23. This made it difficult for a computer to decide if the code was the domestic code or the international code.
Re:Red Tape (Score:3, Informative)
For example, the VIN can encode the make, model, year, original color, original interior type, factory accessories, the manufacturing line it came off of, etc. It is true that this information could be compressed to some degree, but one of the key features of the VIN is that it is human readable (at least
Re:Morons!!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, but it's not like cars hadn't been around a lot more than 30 years by the 70s already. Did they really think we'd all be flying helicopters in 30 years? Come on.