Playing Nice: Reviews of CrossOver Office, WineX 4 279
JimLynch writes "One of the more common questions experienced Linux users get asked by those considering migrating from Windows to Linux is, "Will my Windows applications run under Linux?" Thanks to the folks at CodeWeavers, the answer to that is yes--for some applications, anyway." And Dan Dole writes "Linuxlookup.com staff member Rich reviews Cedega (WineX 4.0), give it a 20/20 score & Editors Choice Award.
"The release of Transgaming's newest version of WineX, renamed Cedega, was met with considerable enthusiasm and interest in the Linux community last week. So much so that their server was inaccessible the day of release. Cedega is claimed to be much improved, offering the ability to play recent games released for Windows "seamlessly and transparently" under Linux. They provided me with a copy, and I was curious to see if it lived up to the hype.""
We shall see... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:We shall see... (Score:5, Interesting)
Cedega(Winex) runs everything I would normally play if this were an XP box. My wife still has her XP machine, and the games that I had, I played on that machine. So when I went 100% Linux, I thought I would have to give up my games as I'm not a fan of dual booting...or else just play them on her machine.
As it turns out, the games I play (Warcraft 3, Neverwinter Nights, Everquest, Counterstrike, UT2003/2004) all either have a native Linux client or work great under Cedega. And from what I can tell, it will work with World of Warcraft when it comes out...which is really the only game I'm looking forward to playing in the near future (ther than Call of Cthulhu).
So guess what folks, I Windows ain't needed at all on my computer. Not that I'm a MS hater or anything, just didn't feel like shelling out 100 bucks for the OS as I had to build this machine with little to no money.
This is just my experience, you're milage may vary...especially if you're looking to play a game that isn't supported. But the ones I play, play just the same as if on Windows, yet faster as I can switch to another desktop while playing EQ full screen to check on something quickly. I mean, it's INSTANT switching to another desktop. Playing EQ full screen on my Wife's XP machine you have to wait and wait and wait to get to the desktop, THEN the computer runs like molasses.
Prevent it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Prevent it? (Score:5, Informative)
More importantly, the threat of unauthorized use is not any greater under Linux than under Windows. That's largely the point of Wine; the same programs run under Linux in almost exactly the same way that the run under Windows. I'll bet that the real threat of unauthorized distribution comes from little warez kiddies, most of whom run Windows.
Re:Prevent it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Case in point: Thief: Deadly Shadows. Ion Storm says that you MUST run the game under an account that has full Administrative rights. There is no reason to require that a game run with Administrative rights, and no sane Windows user should be using an account with Administrative tasks for playing a game. The restriction is not a matter of the game needing Administrative access for anything. The game can function just fine under a Power Users account. However, the geniuses at Ion Storm decided that they wanted to lock players into this asinine restriction, so they programmed the game to self-destruct by deleting all of the files in its System directory (the game's System directory, not that of Windows) when a non-Admin tries to run it. There is a workaround -- give non-Admin users read-only access to the files (since the game's config and save data is stored elsewhere) -- but that is an example of a completely illogical and pointless restriction deliberately placed on software by a developer. Having the software discover that it's being run under Linux via Wine and self-destructing in much the same way is not a far stretch.
Re:Prevent it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Prevent it? (Score:3, Interesting)
In any case, it still shows utter developer incompetence. If a dev had a requirement that a standard Linux app -- such as a game -- have full root access, they'd be rightfully lynched. Unfortunately there are quite a few morons who think that it's
Re:Prevent it? (Score:4, Insightful)
How many software houses are going to want to support their application running under an unsupported operating system?
Oh yes, they can clearly say "We do not support running _____ under Linux, do so at your own risk" but that does not prevent the inevitable calls and e-mails, asking for support, hoping that an answer exists or worse... that they did not read the warning.
If Wine were perfect and could handle ANY Windows app then yes, it might be advantageous for a publisher to sell to Linux users for use under Wine... but lets face it, it's not perfect, it can't handle all apps.
The best way to avoid support for something is to prevent it. My favorite example, VMware... ever try to install VMware inside of a VMware VM? The install shield says no, saying that it is not supported. Period. And with that go any possible support issues down the line of someone having problems which could be caused by such a setup.
Also, when I said unauthorized distribution I did not mean 'piracy' I meant (and said) use under an unsupported/unauthorized operating system.
Re:Prevent it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Prevent it? (Score:2)
Here's a simple one off the top of my head: check what the results of fopen("/bin/sh", "r") are, including what errno is afterwards.
The question is: who'd want to? A third-party developer probably wouldn't care, unless MS insisted on their making sure their app broke under WINE as part of some sort of agreement. I certainly wouldn't put it past the the folks who b
Re:Prevent it? (Score:2)
Probably not going to happen (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see this as ever likely happening. Mainly because it would be a classic case of "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face". Why go out of your way to piss off a potential customer base? All most commerical developers really care about about is that their software isn't pirated and they get paid for their efforts. Regardless of whether the app is designed to run on Windows or not, folks would still be expected to pony up a licensing fee. Just because you can now run MS Office on your Linux box
Re:Prevent it? (Score:2)
Microsoft already has. Try installing Office 2003 under CrossOver. You get a dialog box telling you you're running the wrong OS.
Re:Prevent it? (Score:2)
Just Tried WineX... (Score:5, Informative)
Per the ebuild instructions, I registered w/ transgaming, ponied up my 20 bucks (or whatever), downloaded the file, copied it into
I was playing American McGee's Alice 20 minutes after starting my first "run a Windows(tm) game on linux" adventure. Even impressed the Mrs.
Re:Just Tried WineX... (Score:3, Interesting)
Wake me when you play Far Cry, or Halo, or POP:Sands of Time, Call of Duty - or something from the last year or so. (Ie; something with DirectX 9+ with PS2.0).
Re:Just Tried WineX... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Just Tried WineX... (Score:2, Informative)
Farcry linux installer [linux-gamers.net]
Re:Just Tried WineX... (Score:2)
Re:Just Tried WineX... (Score:3, Informative)
Just like Windows? (Score:5, Funny)
So they crash most of the time?
Perhaps better? (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps better? (Score:2)
actually the question I always ask: (Score:3, Interesting)
So far that answer is still yes
Re:actually the question I always ask: (Score:2)
Re:actually the question I always ask: (Score:2)
apt-get rocks (Score:2)
Re:actually the question I always ask: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2, Informative)
2) They don't charge in . I'm sure my bank will charge me extra, for converting to a foreign currency.
Tell then I'm stuck with normal wine & half-life....well thats not too bad
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2)
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2)
They said they would when they reached 20,000 subscribers. The last report (some time ago) was 4,000 or so. Transgaming themselves said in the thread here, on Cedega's release day, that they had not reached thier subscription goal.
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2)
and
show the proof maybe?
Re:I'm not going to pay for it because.. (Score:2)
"Indeed, Cedega is not software libre. We've never claimed that it was. It's a commercial product that includes components dereived from Wine and ReWind.
Despite that fact, and despite the fact that we have not yet reached the 20,000 subscriber number in our original plans, we have contributed and we continue to contribute to the Wine project in a number of substantial ways. These include major contributions or rearchitectures of: 2D DirectDraw, DirectSound, DirectInput, DCOM,
WineX Downsides? (Score:4, Interesting)
The only downside I see is philosophical rather than a problem with Cedega itself. There aren't many Linux versions of popular games available. By making it so easy to run the Windows versions, there may not be much of an incentive to develop for Linux.
Now, not many gaming companies make Linux versions of their games, but suppose Linux gained a significant share of the desktop market. At a certain point, gaming companies will start making Linux versions, whether or not WineX can run the Windows version or not. If only because gamers are more likely to be tech savvy and the same type of people who would probably switch to Linux away from Windows before the less computer literate population does
Re:WineX Downsides? (Score:2)
WineX is nice, but.... (Score:3, Interesting)
First of all there are many great Open Source games out there, Frozen Bubble and TORCS come quickly to mind.
Secondly games like Neverwinter Nights and UT2k4 are amazing, not just for the games themselves, but for the mod communities that surround them. Who cares if you can't give Sony $13 or $15 a month to play everquest. Give your money to Bioware and thank them for making a game so open that people have created MMORPG's that can be played freely with their software.
Same with UT. One look at duffer's golf, a complete Golf mod sold me on UT. I'm honestly not that interested in Golf, but if one can be made, and if it's a mod it'll run on windows and Linux, it's just the tip of the iceburg as to what can be done by modding the engine.
These are the companies and the mod communities we should be supporting. Yes there are a few windows games I'd like to play, but I'd rather not give those companies my money, since to them, I'm just another windows user.
Re:WineX is nice, but.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because if you are, you're wrong. They aren't supporting the segment of the linux community that says "Ohh Noo Nothing but native linux apps for us, windows sux0rs and must burn in hell!" They're supporting the segment that says "Hey, I've used windows for a long time, and I like linux a lot, and I'd like to be able to play/run my windows stuff on my linux box. Can you help a guy out?"
There are plenty of developers in the world. These people are supporting that segment of the linux community that desires the ability to run windows applications on linux.
We can debate all we want about if this is a good strategy in the long term. But there's no doubt that these companies are strongly supporting (parts) of the linux community.
Re:WineX is nice, but.... (Score:2, Insightful)
What insentive do they have for making Warcraft IV Linux compatable if Transgaming will do all the hard work for them?
Bioware overcame a lot of hurdles to make NWN available under Linux, including forcing MILES to make their sound system Linux compatable. Yes it took them a long time to do it, but it did happen. Every company
Re:WineX is nice, but.... (Score:2)
cedega rules (Score:3, Informative)
Now what we need is a good daemontools-like utility that can mount non-iso images without converting to
wine (Score:2)
has anyone had any sort of sucess running windows apps, particularly office on linux - on a free version of wine, not crossover?
Not if I can actually get DRI to work on my ATI 9200 chipset (annoyingly impossible even after trying the free-closed-source ati drivers)...
Its the way to the future . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't need it. (Score:5, Funny)
The only Windows games I'm going to want to run are Duke Nukem Forever and Half Life 2. Oh, wait... they don't exist...
--Jon
Re:Don't need it. (Score:2)
How about Blizzard? I'm a big Warcraft/Starcraft fan... I think Warcraft3 is one of the 6 or so games that run on Macs though. How about Civ3? Don't tell me about FreeCiv, I tried it, it is crap.
Re:Don't need it. (Score:3, Informative)
Their whole catalogue is also listed on their site, here [lokigames.com].
--Jon
Re:DO need it. (Score:2)
Just imagine. You are a Linux user. How else do you expect to run the Windows version of OpenOffice.org without Wine?
Think of all the great open source software on Windows. Software you want to run. Mozilla. The GIMP. Inkscape.
Crossover Office (Score:5, Informative)
I installed Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop. Microsoft Office is practically transparent as to how fast it runs. It loads up very fast and runs very smooth. As far as Photoshop, it runs pretty good as well. There are little bugs with the different windows and the toolboxes, but it works. for the most part.
For production, I dont think Adobe Photoshop is ready yet (version 7 by the way). Office I think is more than ready. I also installed IE so I could preview websites I'm working on in IE natively without having to go to another windows computer. On top of that, I installed the Quicktime plugin and I watch trailers from Apple.com with no lag.
I give Crossover Office a 10/10. Well worth every penny I spent.
Re:Crossover Office (Score:2)
Can you confirm whether or not they've fixed the IE encryption key bug yet? Importing encryption keys into IE running under Crossover wouldn't work. I'm not talking about regular ssl keys signed by third parties. What I'm referring to are self-signed keys like what Bank of America uses to communicate with bankruptcy officers.
IIRC, the key jsut wouldn't install. You'd go th
Ermmm... (Score:2, Informative)
I'll think you'll find that was the slashdotting they recieved.
RegardselFarto
Gaim? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gaim? (Score:2)
Linuxlookup.com (Score:4, Informative)
inaccessible the day of release? (Score:2, Funny)
So popular that the website was down? (Score:3, Informative)
Unfortunately I've read some horrible stories on their own website (in the support section [transgaming.com] and new forums [transgaming.org]) about people having a bad time getting their already-working games working under Cedega. In fact, I've read an unfortunately large number of posts saying that they've downgraded to WineX because of the number of bugs. I'm not sure whether the editor noticed this but those facts certainly don't merit a 20/20 in my book...
I use CrossoverOffice daily -- it rocks. (Score:2)
I've tried perhaps a dozen other apps (including YetiSports) and they all worked with no glitches.
The one feature that CrossoverOffice appears not to support well is trashing your whole system with malware -- you can grant your applications read-only access to your main fi
Hmm...doesn't list support for Cygwin (Score:2)
I even tried grafting 'win' dir to /var/lib/wine (Score:2, Informative)
I am a Lotus SmartSuite fan and am deeply disappointed that there is not enough demand for IBM and Lotus to port it natively (nevermind the IP matters/excuses)
Growing weary of some "invalid license" rubbish from Crossdresser after I simply deleted my
I struck upon an idea:
"What if I graft my 'win' folder created b
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:5, Informative)
So you are a troll, and with qualifiers, the answer is yes.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, the best answer, I think, is "try it an see." Without source code to see how tightly integrated a program is with Win, it is very hard to tell. When you do the experiment, sometimes you get a pleasant surprise.
I recently finally migrated my main office workstation to Linux, and am dual booting since there are a few things I still need Winders for. One such, I thought, was a program called MoluCAD by New River Kinematics [kinematics.com], a molecule drawing program that I really, really need.
The other day, I tried it with wine, and BOOM! It worked!! Yeah.
It's important, too, to document when a program does not work.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2, Insightful)
I suspect that before we can get Windows applications to work under any emulator that runs on a non-Windows o/s, we must first get the Windows application to *work* under Windows.
But that's just one man's opinion.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
It's sloppily coded and refuses to run unless you're Administrator.
Does that count?
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2, Interesting)
Running is running. There's been plenty of crappy linux apps that refused to run unless they're root.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Sim City 2000 Network Edition. self explanatory.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd have better examples but I just have windows for games now, but its pretty well documented that Windows backwards compatibility isn't always so backwards compatible.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:3, Informative)
About a month after XP was released an update came out that specifically addressed compatibility with older apps, have you used it?
And do you know about the compatibility options? Checking a box makes the environment anything from 95,98,ME,XP.
I play a ton of old games, and have had no problem getting anything working under XP. I dont doubt there are some crappy old incompatible apps, but I don't know of any.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2, Funny)
Saving anyone from experiencing Force Commander is a saintly act.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Forget software... how about old hardware? (Score:2)
That's an obscure example, but I'm sure I could come up with something more common, say, like printers or scanners.
Bottom line, it's not in thrid party developers' interest to keep supporting older stuff. They want you to buy their new products.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Mechwarrior 2:Mercenaries(win32 version)
ZPC
Fighting Force
FFVII
Soul Reaver:Legacy of Kain
There are more, and there are quite a few that aren't games, but being the old game fan I am, I stick with what I know.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Try QEMU [bellard.free.fr]. It can run any version of Windows and is pretty fast. I haven't compared it to Win4Lin, since I don't own that program, but give it a shot.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:3, Informative)
I thought Win4Lin did emulate hardware. From their site they say that Win4Lin "provides a complete virtual PC environment for the Windows operating systems." [netraverse.com] Elsewhere it says that they provide a virtual network card. I may be wrong, however, since as I said I have never run the program.
Something comparable would be more like if FreeDOS could be made to run in userspace on Linux and then used it to run Win98.
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:4, Informative)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
Re:"The answer to that is yes" (Score:2)
We'll see how many decades it takes them to get that done.
The true answer is 'it depends' (Score:2)
They also document what is certified and what is not. So there wont be any question.
I assume its the same for WineX ( I'm not a gamer ).
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't really see your point. Your asking for guarantees you don't even get with regular Windows.
Re:Cheese with my Wine (Score:5, Interesting)
Where legacy gets a real problem (for moving to Linux) is the small specialist-apps a lot of the SMEs have that only run on Windows. These often are a simple specialist accountancy package and so on. As the Wine API becomes more and more complete in creating a working API - and it does not matter if it is a bit old - the more of these sites can be converted to linux. The more that happens the more apps will be ported to native Linux.
Wine and so on is a LOT more than a simple "Look Ma - Windows on Linux" exercise. Although it does not replace the MS-Windows environment totally - it is not designed to - it enables greater migration to Linux - and the more that happens the less Linux adoption will rely on having to run MS Applications.
Re:Cheese with my Wine (Score:4, Interesting)
I saw the headline of this story and immediately thought, someone's going to mention OOo as a replacement.
Have you tried, in a genuine office environment, received an MS Word document, edited it with OOo, exported it back and sent it to your coworker/manager/client?
Of course not. Because the im/export functionality of MS Office documents in OOo is nice, but not perfect. And that's why it's useless. So a looong time ago, I shelled out $55 (now only $40) for crossover office. Never looked back.
Re:Cheese with my Wine (Score:2)
These are companies with an IT staff of about 5 people, all Windows-trained, maybe two
Windows apps in Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
What you are doing, is trying to get those last few apps that don't exist under linux to run. In my case, that's games, and some DVD authoring stuff which will probably have a linux counterpart soon (I've seen some but the UI is still coming along).
It took me awhile to customize my linux desktop, but I could probably do it again easily enough now, and I'm readying wizards/ISOs to allow others to use a similar desktop.
Re:Cheese with my Wine (Score:5, Informative)
I dont want to run win98 on it, much less pay $$$ for a windows xp upgrade.
All i need at work is a browser, ssh, sapgui and lotus notes.
I use wine daily at work to run lotus notes on it. it works flawlessly. actually, most of the time i forget that im "using" wine, as i have a icon shortcut that launches notes directly.
i dont know if wine will ever be "popular", but it is very useful for my needs, and i thank the developers for that
Re:Cheese with my Wine (Score:2)
i dont know if wine will ever be "popular", but it is very useful for my needs, and i thank the developers for that
Remember that, with OSS Projects, the best way to thank them is to contribute [winehq.org] (either with bug reports, code, documentation or money).
Re:Text of review (Score:4, Informative)
Review of Cedega (WineX 4.0)
Category
Linux Software / Applications
Product name
Cedega
Version
4.0 (WineX)
Manufacturer name
TransGaming
Provided by
TransGaming
Price
N/A
Review by
Rich
The release of Transgaming's newest version of WineX, renamed Cedega, was met with considerable enthusiasm and interest in the Linux community last week. So much so that their server was inaccessible the day of release. Cedega is claimed to be much improved, offering the ability to play recent games released for Windows "seamlessly and transparently" under Linux. They provided me with a copy, and I was curious to see if it lived up to the hype.
Cedega is available as an rpm, deb or tgz file. Point2Play is a graphical front end to Cedega and available in the same formats. Point2play comes bundled with all dependencies, a very nice touch, and includes the font installer program (also available as a separate download).
I was installing on Slackware 10, so I downloaded the tgz files. A simple #installpkg for Point2play was all that was needed. Point2play retrieves and installs Cedega for you. It also downloads and installs Microsoft Core Fonts with the click of a button.
Testing
The first thing I noticed was a tab titled "System Tests". There are four tests that help to determine if your system is ready to run Cedega.
"Test for Hardware 3D Graphics Acceleration" tests to see if your graphics card is capable of running 3D-intense games and if it has been set up correctly. I clicked, the familiar glxgears box opened, then I was greeted with two green graphs. They gave me an OK for OpenGL Direct Rendering and for 3D rendering speed.
"Test for Sound Support" plays a sound, then asks you if you heard it. You are informed that Cedega uses the OSS audio device and told to consult your distribution's documentation if you didn't hear one. Thankfully, I did.
"Test if POSIX threads (pthreads) are Required" gave me a confusing pop up box. It said "You are running a distribution of Linux on which Cedega requires the usage of pthreads on (ie. Very recent glibc). Unfortunately the maximum stack size on your distribution is not large enough for some games, and therefore you might have issues." I am then told, "When using Cedega 3.2 or newer, you may not need to use pthreads which can help avoid these problems." I admit ignorance here. I am baffled by the wording. I am being told Cedega requires pthreads, but with version 4.0 I may not need to use them, which can help avoid problems. My yellow graph boiled it down for me, saying "Some Games Might Have Problems".
"Test CD/DVD Drive" checks the accessibility of the CD-ROM devices and if they are capable of supporting Copy Protected games. I got the green light showing my cdrom was available. The documentation is outstanding and will be a great help if yours isn't.
Background
Since I don't dual boot and lack free time, I haven't run Windows games in years. I have been happy with the standard Linux games, including Ksokoban, Kbounce, Ktron and of course Tuxracer and Tuxkart. Recent additions such as Frozen Bubble and the updated SuperTux have a modern feel. I haven't had much experience with Linux ports such as UT2004. I like that Cedega was giving me the opportunity to try out some modern games.
Half-Life Uplink
My first try was the demo of Half-Life Uplink, downloaded from the Nvidia site. I fired up Point2Play and clicked Install. A box opens asking for the path to the executable, the program title, the Cedega version to use, and two check boxes (big EXE and Run Directory). I found the path, named the program, left the default Cedega as my choice and clicked both boxes. Big EXE supports games packed as one large executable. Run Directory sets the current working directory to the game executable directory. You also have the option to mount an
Re:Don't waste your ching (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Don't waste your ching (Score:2)
You're confusing things. WineX isn't meant for running "office crap" it's meant for running games and it does so very well.
Re:Speed Difference (Score:3, Informative)
No that's not quite how it works. Applications contain calls to functions, something like OpenFile("C:\some\filename").
The code that implements OpenFile() would normally be in a Windows
WineX creates a Linux version of the msfile.dll, so the the application runs the Linux code instead of Windows code.
The speed could be faster or slower, depending on how
Re:Speed Difference (Score:3, Interesting)
It does but in such a way that would keep an individual such as myself away. Now, granted I haven't installed Cedega yet but Hearts of Iron had pointer speed slow down at times. Same thing for Warcraft 3. I had huge issues with Steam and Counter-Strike/Day of Defeat with WineX 3 where I had framerates of 3-7 fps whereas under Windows XP, it averages 60-70 fps. Transgaming's support asks for me to install the latest version and try it. I will eventually.
I'm unfortunately addicted to Hearts of Iron [wargamer.com] whi
Re:Confused at the aim of this project (Score:2)
WineX has always worked well for me, but Crossover has always been a little buggy. Perhaps it's more usable on other distributions (I use gentoo).
Flash and my checkpoint VPN client are the only things I boot to windows for right now. I expect eventually there will be a reliable way to run them, or I wi