More Details on Cut-Rate Windows OS For Asia 451
glawrie writes "The BBC is carrying a story that Microsoft is to launch a (very) cut down version of Windows XP to combat Linux in Asian countries. According to the story, 'Windows XP Starter Edition' will be limited to low-res graphics, limited networking, and will be hobbled to prevent more than three applications running concurrently. It remains to be seen why anyone in target countries would choose this over Linux, or the widely available pirate copies of 'full' Windows XP." We mentioned this in June.
XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:2, Funny)
How about we call it Windows X-POS?
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:4, Informative)
There already is an XP Lite [litepc.com]...And it's pretty handy too...
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:3, Interesting)
If you up and deleted everything related to your workflow automation software tomorrow morning and insured that not a single piece of it ever saw another computer
Somehow manage to remove every bit of porn from the Internet overnight and by noon there would be a planetary revolution and overthrow of the existing society as we know it.
Hot buttered naked women are the currency with which all computer related debts are eventually paid. Sure,
Re:XP Starter is the shiznit, kids! (Score:5, Funny)
"The only safe Windows is abstinence"
Re:Anyone have similar for Linux? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why do everyone always bash DOS ? DOS means "Disk Operating System", and that's excatly what it is. DOS was meant to give a command prompt and filesystem drivers for 360kB floppies, in machine with 8086 processor and 128kB-256kB memory and leave most of the resources for applications. It did it's designated work perfectly fine.
Of course a filesystem designed for 360kB floppies doesn't work well when used for hard disks hundreds of gigabytes in size. And of course a system designed to run with 128kB memory doesn't do a good task in administering hundreds of megabytes of memory - especially since the CPU switched from 16 to 32 bits inbetween. Tracktors tend to be ill suited for highways too, but that doesn't make them useless.
Despite all this DOS still supports primitive multitasking (I used to ran smartdrv and keyb (the keyboard layout remapper) in the background), device drivers (ansi.sys, himem.sys, CD drivers...), input/output redirecting ("debug < source.asm"), hard disks (and CD drives with a proper driver installed), extended memory (with himem.sys installed), expanded memory (with emm386.exe installed), freely changeable shells, primitive printer drivers ("copy text.txt > LPT"), support for different character sets (via code pages), and even primitive mount capabilities (you can make drive letters appear as directories, and directories appear as drive letters - with commands "subst" and "assign", if I remember correctly). Oh, and it boots in seconds from a floppy in the minimum system (which is propably a minimum possible PC system that can boot up to a command prompt of any operating system) and is rock stable (I've never have the actual DOS core crash - of course the applications are a different matter).
DOS is also very hackable - it is even possible to load parts of DOS into the video memory (can't remember how to do it, thought - but the idea was that since text mode uses less video memory than VGA mode, you can as well put code to the otherwise unused part) to free up main memory. There's even a hex editor/assembler/disk editor ("debug") included in the basic distribution. And, of course, with DOS, every last clock cycle goes to the application - DOS has absolutely no background services running unless you specifically start some. Interrupt handlers are the only parts of DOS that run without the application specifically starting them, and they are easily replaced if neccessary.
MS-DOS is propably the best program MS has ever released - perfectly fit for it's purpose, with nothing extraenous. The only bad things about it are edlin (seriously - who came up with this program ?!?) and using backslash instead of forward slash as a directory separator.
Calling DOS limited because it's ill suited for multitasking multimedia applications and managind gigabyte harddisks is about equal to calling a rowboat limited because it's ill suited for crossing the Atlantic Ocean. Sure, it's true, but that's not what rowboats are for, and I'd love to see you fitting an ocean cruiser to a lake less than a meter deep.
Better link (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Better link (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Better link (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Better link (Score:5, Funny)
Oh god! (Score:2)
Re:Oh god! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Oh god! (Score:3, Interesting)
Imagine: "We have detected a 160GB hard drive on your system. In order to use the full power of your computer, we recommend that you upgrade your software. Would you like to unlock the full power of Windows XP Home Edition for only RS3000?"
Then they could u
Okay lets think about this... (Score:3, Funny)
Hmm. Suddenly I'm not so worried about the Microsoft marketing machine.
Re:Okay lets think about this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm. Suddenly I'm not so worried about the Microsoft marketing machine.
Fool! That's exactly what that machine likes to hear. Let's not forget that Windows 3.1 was a steaming, extremely popular, piece of shit.
Re:Okay lets think about this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Okay lets think about this... (Score:2)
Exactly what I was thinking.
Let's all hope they continue to show this level of commitment to open source in the future!
my question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:my question (Score:5, Funny)
Application 2: Superduper pop up blocker that feeds you adverts all day
Application 3: w32.netsky.A
Just like a demo! (Score:5, Funny)
Except that you're paying for it...
This idea is sure to succeed because those horrible, evil, open source zealots would never think of this idea.
Re:Just like a demo! (Score:5, Insightful)
-
Except that you're paying for it...
This fits for a company that has gotten people to pay for beta CDs. Not to mention that most of the releases of Windows have felt like Betas anyway. So this is just business as usual, nothing seems to have changed. Makes you wonder if the whole security focus is just marketing fluff too doesn't it?WTF? (Score:4, Insightful)
On a side note, laughing my ass off about why anyone would choose this sideshow over better, more robust, and free products. They'll probably lower the price down to $50, which is $50 too much.
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:WTF? (Score:2, Insightful)
4 concurrent programs! (Score:5, Interesting)
You remember: MSIE is part of the OS, and as such does not count as an application!
But what if you have Quick-Time resident, Norton-Anti-Virus and the Zone-Labs firewall running? Will you be able to start any additional program?
Microsoft can benefit from that. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
I keep thinking it's like watching a Histroy Channel show on the last days of Hitler, when his military strategy just went off the deep end.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Interesting)
If microsoft CAN put out a cheap version of windows, no matter how crippled, then at least *some* people will buy it, and instead of getting $0.00 * 0 revenue from that country, they get $small_amount * x customers.
However, by limiting the functionality, people in the more developed (read: stupid idiots for paying so much) countries which actually are forced to buy the full sized version will not look on this and say "Hey MS why cant we get OUR windows cheap".
This kind of cut down OS would appear to me to be perfect for OEM distributers, supply this cut down MS "product" and pay less M$ tax without losing buddy status.
True, noone on the street who knows the difference would touch it with a bargepole, but for the computer newbie this maybe just the price point they are expecting ("ahhh look, I can save $50 by getting xp-lite").
If XPLite was ST:TNG (Score:3, Funny)
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do adware and spyware count?
Do they advertise this as the "gimped" version? (Score:2, Insightful)
If I lived in a country targeted for this release, I would still use a pirated copy of Windows. Why pay money for something nearly useless when I can get something nearly use
They used to call it that... (Score:5, Funny)
But then someone let slip that GIMP [gimp.org] was one of those hippy-freakout open source programs. They tried to call it the 'Photoshopped' version but were pummeled by Adobe. They now call it the 'Paint' version - eminently confusing but better than the 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' version.
Windows CE-ME-NT (Score:3, Funny)
Hahahaha... haha.. heh. Welcome to 1999.
Not exactly. The Windows CEMENT image [geocities.com] refers to Windows ME, which wasn't first published until late 2000. In fact, the image was Last Modified in January 2001.
I wonder how long (Score:4, Interesting)
But given the low cost of a pirated copy of Windows I still think this is a strategy doomed to failure!
Re:I wonder how long (Score:2)
I'm thinking that it's nothing more than a few registry keys. Modify the keys, and BAM! Full version.
Re:I wonder how long (Score:4, Interesting)
Scare users away from XP? (Score:5, Insightful)
That will give new users a taste of how bad XP is, before making the choice between Linux (full res, full net, great multitasking) and XP (low res, limited net, 3 apps).
Re:Scare users away from XP? (Score:3, Insightful)
Worm Security (Score:3, Funny)
Cool, so you just have to open 3 programs and no worm could be executed?
Aren't there more processes running when windows starts?
Re:Worm Security (Score:2)
I assume they're talking about foreground applications as opposed to background processes.
Check your XP Task manager to see the difference.
MS isn't thinking straight... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:MS isn't thinking straight... (Score:2, Interesting)
Over there there is no existing dependence on the product. New computer users will be chosing between a fully functional, feature packed operating system that is fre
NTWS = NTServer all over again (Score:5, Insightful)
This is dumb on MS' part on so many levels - people will try it, see that it sucks, and go with $Localized-Government-Sponsored-Linux instead.
Re:NTWS = NTServer all over again (Score:2)
Or more likely, pirate Windows.
Don't be so sure. All the recent (last 2 years) studies I've seen that focused on Asian computer users showed that subjects were happier with localized Linux systems vs. Windows, even without any price consideration. Most of this is probably due to the piss-poor job MS has done with language support, but a lot also has to do with the sheer bulk of applications/functionality you get from a Linux system.
Limited to 800x600? (Score:5, Informative)
Given the fact that most modern websites are designed for 1024x768 and all the recent games require at least 1024x768 I wonder how useful an OS is that is limited so severe. Your nextdoor Linux distribution is 10 times more powerful than "XP Starter Edition". I would continue to pirate if I would be presented with that kind of joke.
Re:Limited to 800x600? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Limited to 800x600? (Score:2)
By which you mean that UT2k4, Sacred, Thief 3, Far Cry, etc are not recent games. In fact, I've not seen a single game or demo *ever* that has required at least 1024x768, while I have seen a number of older ones that won't allow resolutions above 800x600.
Re:Limited to 800x600? (Score:4, Insightful)
-truth
Re:Limited to 800x600? (Score:2)
XP Lite: With limited networking capabilites, ... (Score:3, Funny)
Its broken! (Score:2, Redundant)
Win98? (Score:5, Funny)
Three Applications! (Score:2)
I don't use Wintendo but I see it running here and there. Let me guess on the three apps that'll be running in Asia
AdAware 6.0
Taskman
Persistent Java Console from ladyboy pr0n site
This is a monumentally stupid idea (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the PCjr. of operating systems, destined to be a laughed-at memory.
Re:This is a monumentally stupid idea (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the PCjr. of operating systems, destined to be a laughed-at memory.
Hmmm...this reminds me of that Ghandi quote that is so often repeated on Slashdot. I wonder if we're nearing the "we win" stage, because not only is the OSS community ramping up a formidable software stack on their own, they are doing it with the help of all of Microsoft's competitors (e.g., Sun, IBM, SGI, Novell, etc.). It's interesting just how few real friends Microsoft has.
Mislabelling (Score:3, Interesting)
I really don't understand why Microsoft is trying to release this crap. No more than 3 apps at a time? Why that hard limit? It's not like they re-built XP for simpler multitasking.
Microsoft is an enormous corporation with many people trying to get things done. If my experience at DEC and HP in the 1990s is any metric, XP Lite could be some pet project for a VP to gain some brownie or "atta boy" points. If it works out, then good for him. If it doesn't
Other ways to get a small windows (Score:5, Interesting)
Commersial program to remove components from Windows XP http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html [litepc.com]
Free programs to reduce the size of Windows XP before installation: http://nuhi.msfn.org/ [msfn.org] and http://jdeboeck.msfnhosting.com/ [msfnhosting.com]
And of course, my project that reduces the size of Windows 98 to less than 5MB http://www.etek.chalmers.se/~e8gus/nano98/ [chalmers.se] ;-)
Re:Other ways to get a small windows (Score:2)
It's a sham (Score:2, Insightful)
One wonders what they are trying to achieve with this. Surely this is not going to stop rampant piracy. If I have the choice of a cheap full version from the blackmarket with next to no probability of being caught, and a (probably more expensive) hobbled version, which one am I going to get?
In a way, it reminds me of the police raids that they sometimes have in places like Hong Kong, where they seize lots of CDs, and put them in front of a bulldozer. Then the press arrives, takes some photos for the pap
I hate this (Score:2)
Nice commentary here (Score:4, Informative)
A Big Risk For Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
A slimmed down version of Windows without some of the extra packages would be a lot better to offer than a crippled version. I think that in the end, Microsoft is going to have to accept the fact that in today's global marketplace, Windows is overpriced. In the face of Linux and free open source software solutions, I really don't know what they can do other than lower the price of admission and add more value and true innovation. There have to be really good killer app sort of reasons that make Windows the thing you want to have. Productivity applications like Office are no longer sufficient reason to stay with Windows. Games might be, but the PC games market is losing out to the console market. So what's left?
Finally, even a crippled Windows won't be immune to piracy! As we learned from the web browser wars, it's really hard to sell something that's being given away for free! Linux is free and certainly has everything a small business might need in the way of productivity apps. So how can Windows compete with that in places where it is not the dominant player and limited resources and nationalism come into play?
Many will find this insulting. (Score:4, Interesting)
Case in point: Windows 2000/2003 Server "Web Edition." It's a cut-rate server they've made available to hosting companies to compete with Linux. Now and then I've had to help customers with this particular crippleware and hit a brick wall because a feature was disabled. For example, you can't make it a domain controller.
Hopefully this will insult the Asian people and they will redouble their adoption of Linux.
hm... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:hm... (Score:2)
Except for the graphics, very little difference.
If anyone in Redmond knew anything about security or memory management, they might have a decent OS.
The only safe Windows (Score:5, Funny)
The only good Windows comes from Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
The pirates always do whatever they can to make more money. That includes going into theaters with camcorders to record a film that includes audience reactions at "no extra charge." So it's "no extra charge" for the bad version of Windows you're running that you bought from me when you thought you were getting the real deal.
According to Microsoft: the new software [will] also help deter consumers from buying pirated versions of its XP system, widely available in many Asian countries.
Thus, Microsoft, wh
I wonder why.. (Score:5, Interesting)
#1 [indiatimes.com]The Department of Information Technology has already devised a strategy to introduce Linux and open source software as a de-facto standard in academic institutions, especially in engineering colleges through course work that encourages use of such systems.
#2 [com.com]: Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation, met on Thursday with Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam to discuss "the ethical issues related to the use of proprietary software," according to the Free Software Foundation of India. Stallman also met officials in the state of Kerala to discuss the use of nonproprietary software in government initiatives. Last year, Kalam spoke out in favor of open-source software following a meeting with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates.
So, there is ample reason to worry. Now wonder why they'd have a strangulated version of OS as a low-cost option?
'so called' open source (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:'so called' open source (Score:3, Insightful)
Sneak Preview... (Score:5, Funny)
Shades of PCjr (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that this ever happened to me *cough*.
It's also very demeaning to the countries involved, piracy issues or not. You can imagine the box as saying: "If you see this box in a store, it's because we have 'issues' with your country as a whole." Frankly, I hope people are offended and swear off MS entirely.
Viva Linux!
Deterrent to buying legal copies... (Score:2)
Anyone there paying $50 for this crippled crapware is not only going to be disappointed, they're going to be angry.
nothing new here (Score:3, Funny)
Slashdot follows MS with cut-rate color scheme (Score:5, Funny)
I Already Have That Version (Score:4, Funny)
Typical marketing strategies/behavior (Score:2)
- smile while selling it
- quote professional support of your product
- present convenient facts in favor of it
Well no offense to my american nerds, but if it works in US (telemarketers anyone?) it certaintly won't work in China, if you know what I'm saying...Crippled WindowsOS: A big plus for Mozilla! (Score:3, Insightful)
Otherwise, users would go mad stopping and starting applications..
I wonder if this is true or if Windows think that Mozilla web browser and email client count for two application?
Sounds like Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (Score:3, Insightful)
Government Involvement (Score:5, Informative)
What pisses me off is that the Thai government is going to HELP [microsoft-watch.com]Microsoft in spreading the deployment of XP Lite. I know that many Microsoft supporters will chime in about Munich's recent decision to move forward with Linux. This is different than a government making a purchasing decision for themselves and coming up with XP or Linux as the OS choice. Instead, the Thai government is helping with the deployment in non-government settings.
Nothing annoys me more than corporate welfare. The Thai government is supporting one of the richest companies in the world.
Fuck you Microsoft.
MEMO (Score:3, Funny)
TO: MicroSoft Asia
Subject: Linux/Piracy in Asia
DAMMIT! Re-arrange those deck chairs FASTER!
And tell the band to play 'Nearer my God to Thee' LOUDER!
Is this really the best way to do it, kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Upgrade. We've already acknowledged that these areas are poor, which means they have a limited cash flow. If they weren't willing to pay for the full blown product before, do you think they're going to be more likely to pay AGAIN? I don't think so which leads us to
2. Piracy. This is the real reason this product is even available. Cracked CD Keys, reg hacks that allow Win Update regardless. I think this move is going to INCREASE piracy. More users. More users wanting more.
3. Move to Linux. If you are going to shell out some money anyway - why not buy a retail linux distro. You get better support and a full blown product. Not enough $$ to cough up fiddy bucks for a retail copy? Download that mother for free!
I think MS had a few objectives that this product was supposed to accomplish. I think it won't make as big of an impact as they expect.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
Given that Windows without Media Player and Solitaire IS useless to many people that'd be the same, m'kay?
Re:How is this different (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like any other version of a Microsoft OS.
While parent is probably trolling, there is some truth to his statement. Windows just doesn't do so well when you load it down with programs (active or not). "Cache Thrash" is simply a way of life for Windows users; even those with gobs of memory. I've known people who have completely disabled the Windows cache because of these problems. Microsoft needs to rip out their VM and threading system, and redesign it for modern computers with 128+ megs of RAM.
The Unixes do it much better, but the programs do take slightly longer to run. I remember the first time I used a Solaris box. A puny Ultra 5, and it was absolutely kicking NT's ass on parallelism! I could have 7 or 8 "busy" programs, and my desktop would never become unresponsive! Mac OS X has made use of the same concept, expect that the window is double-buffered. The end result is that you never see an ugly unpainted window. Now if only Apple would fix the 101 ways to lock up finder.
Re:How is this different (Score:2)
While parent is probably trolling...
Interesting...I could say the same...
The Windows VMM (Score:4, Informative)
The trimmer (the part of the Windows VMM which reduces a program's in RAM working set, writing it out to the swap space) *only* looks at pages pointed to by the TLB (if I remember right). The TLB - translation lookaside buffer - is a small cache of PTEs on the processor (page table entries - the things which tell the kernel where 4K pages of virtual memory are at the moment. The TLB just gives you very fast access to a small number of PTEs - it's essentially a cache). IIRC, the TLB has room for 64 PTEs, so the Windows trimmer only ever looks at 64 pages or memory for candidates to write to swap. The trimmer (in the grand scheme of things) doesn't run very often - once every few seconds IIRC.
This normally isn't a big deal. However, servers often have a couple of processes using a lot of virtual memory. Sometimes, you can get the situation where you've got a big process with a large working set - many megabytes - possibly a high percentage of physical RAM, even on a modern machine. This big process might not be very busy - it might not be using much CPU at all. Indeed, it might not even be using many of the pages currently loaded into physical RAM.
Then another process comes along, wanting lots of memory. The trimmer SHOULD have started writing unused bits of the first big process out a long time ago. But guess what - the first big process has been touching pages that the TLB points to frequently, even if it hasn't touched the other 99% of pages loaded into physical RAM. Because the trimmer only looks at the TLB for pages to swap out...it never swaps out ANY of the large process despite the fact most of its pages haven't been touched in maybe days.
So the second big process wants to use up a gob of RAM, and really wants to do things with it. Except it ends up thrashing in and out of swap, because the first big process isn't getting swapped out ever.
This is quite easy to demonstrate if you write a short C program to allocate a bunch of RAM and regularly touch a small subset of its pages - it'll never get swapped out even when another program comes along wanting lots of memory. Whilst we were figuring out what the problem was with our two big processes, I actually did this to prove what I reckoned from reading the book about the NT VMM.
Even early Linux and BSD kernels of the same vintage as Windows NT 4.0 were much better with things like this (and you could look at the source of the VMM rather than taking some book's word for it, and having to write programs to test your theories). I've not tried this on Win2K or WinXP, but I'm betting the VMM still works the same way.
Re:What do they want to gain (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly... (Score:4, Insightful)
The trouble is to prevent resale and competing with yourself (via parallell imports etc.) Basicly, if you could sell for $2 in Asia, $15 in the US, $18 in the EU, how do you prevent the asians from reselling it? MPAA did it with the region coding. Microsoft tries crippleware.
It is the same old story all over again. They don't expect pirates to buy this. They expect those that "need" a legally licenced version to go with this, because their users are already trained so well on Windows.
In Asia, this is more about moving businesses from "Yes, I know we NEED a legal licence, but no matter how you bend it we can't come up with that kind of cash." to "We'll take it, just so we have a legal licence."
Kjella
Re:Not to combat Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Emacs and what other application did you need? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Emacs and what other application did you need? (Score:2)
Re:Emacs and what other application did you need? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Purchase? (Score:2)
Linux needs far more hardware support. (Score:5, Insightful)
This, in my humble opinion, is one the big limitation of Linux even with the current SuSE and Mandrake distributions. Configuring Linux to work for each user is definitely not a job for computer newbies.
But there is also another big limitation: Linux currently does not support the full functionality of many hardware peripherals out there, not to mention true automated configuration of any new installed hardware. Think about it: does Linux support the full functionality of the Sound Blaster Audigy card? Can you plug in a digital still camera through the USB ports and Linux will recognize the data on the memory card in the camera and "mount" the memory card with a new disk drive designation?
Hopefully, the people who maintain the Linux Standards Base will work with computer hardware companies and consumer electronics companies to settle these issues so Linux will become a truly viable alternative to Windows soon.
Re:Linux needs far more hardware support. (Score:4, Interesting)
1) new USB devices usually are autodetected by the "hotplug" subsystem. Worked out of the box for my digital camera.
2) the guys working on "Project Utopia" at freedesktop.org, specifically the Hardware Abstraction Layer, HAL, are developing the next bit of the chain, which is that when you plug something in, you automatically get a nice user-friendly desktop notification, and the ability to browse your CDrom/download your photos/etc
The over-complexity issue, I think Gnome has gone a long way to solving this. Maybe you should check it out - Suse and Mandrake are both excellent, but KDE oriented distributions. But the days when people could diss Linux desktop usability are coming slowly to an end.
dave
Re:Linux needs far more hardware support. (Score:3, Informative)
Can you plug in a digital still camera through the USB ports and Linux will recognize the data on the memory card in the camera and "mount" the memory card with a new disk drive designation?
Yes. Furthermore, programs like digikam allow for photo album management and retouching, much like iPhoto.
Re:Because its legal... (Score:3, Insightful)