Windows XP To Get Longhorn Technologies 451
SilentChris writes "According to CNet, Microsoft is revising their plan for Longhorn. In addition to scaling back WinFS, they will also have separate releases of Avalon (the new graphical system) and Indigo (a new network architecture) for Windows XP and 2003. If most of the updates will be available for current versions of Windows, what is the incentive to upgrade?"
Why Longhorn Stuffs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Silly Chris, It'll introduce more bugs and keep you more tightly bound than ever to Microsoft Update, because you'll have so much time and energy vested in keeping your system going you'll be terrified of switching -- I think it's something like the Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe it should have it's own name: Redmond Syndrome.
Further, you'll probably find everything doesn't work as well with your current video card and networking so you'll have to buy *NEW* stuff from vendors -- stuff endorsed by Microsoft as being up to snuff with their shell-game specifications.
As for Longhorn, you'll still buy it like all the other cattle (Ha! Longhorn! Cattle! Now I see the connection!) when it comes out, by the way, I expect the successor to Longhorn to be Bighorn (Guess the species! ;-)
Now please excuse me while I bash my head against the wall for having made sport of my Sith Master, Bill in a prior post.
Re:Why Longhorn Stuffs? (Score:3, Informative)
Another item behind the pre-release is it's clear Longhorn will take too long to appear; Microsoft is trying to convince corporate players that they're the DRM choice. They've got to move on that front faster than god-knows-when-now Longhorn will come out. (We'll get dribs and drabs, but real lock-down requires a whole OS.)
Consider: MS may lose the the OS market to Linux, but does it matter if they gain control of the interface between data and app? Think way
Re:Why Longhorn Stuffs? (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, this is the facet not often considered when anyone upgrades -- beyond the announced features, what other things are creeping into my system. "Oh, I've got XML for Office! Neat!" as opposed to "Oh, I'm stuck with their bastardized and copyrighted version of XML! Shit!"
Re:Why Longhorn Stuffs? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:5, Informative)
For some reason, Slashdot has trouble reporting anything accurately on WinfS. Anyone remember the previous case where Microsoft decided not to include some of the more esoteric features (like some networking functions). Slashdot, of course, picked it up and reported it as "WinFS cancelled," and other tech news sites picked it up. For months, people on Slashdot continued to refer to WinFS as cancelled, when they were blissfully ignorant to the fact it wasn't. Sigh. All it takes is a little basic research first.
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:4, Funny)
You're new here, aren't you?
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:3, Insightful)
No need to be negative against someone with some wacky accusations just because someone made a mindless joke.
Lighten up.
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:5, Insightful)
Then there was some confusion, because "WinFS" sounded like a new file system. Then it was called a service on top of NTFS, which wasn't as dramatic. Now it's unclear what it'll end up being.
The 3 cornerstones of Longhorn, if I remember correctly from an early webcast, was:
* More robust file system
* A better windowing system
* Better security and connectivity
One is going to be "beta" and two are going to be released for current OSes. MS *has* scaled their plans back.
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:3, Informative)
It always was a service running on top of NTFS, that utilized NTFS streams (that are already supported in Windows 2000 and Windows XP). Well, at least it was even back in the first alphas seen. The latest pre-beta builds of Longhorn has shown that WinFS is still implemented as a service.
WinFS isn't (and, again, never
Re:"Scaling back WinFS" (Score:5, Informative)
this just in from CNN:
"To get Longhorn shipped on time, however, Microsoft said it had sacrificed a key component of the system that was to be shipped concurrently, the underlying file system for the software, called WinFS.
The new file system, based on database software architecture aimed at making it easier for users to find information stored on hard drives, will be shipped later, with a test, or beta version, of WinFS shipping along with Longhorn in 2006."
so, how about an apology to everyone here at Slashdot for your unkind words and high UID.
punk
Offtopic: Longhorn naming origins (Score:5, Interesting)
The name of Longhorn is pretty easy to track if you look at the previous version of Windows (Whistler) and the blue-sky version of Windows (Blackcomb), and know a bit about the Pacific Northwest (specifically, the Whistler ski resort [whistlerblackcomb.com] up in Canada). At the Whistler resort, there are two mountains, Whistler and Blackcomb. Between the lifts for the two mountains, there is a tavern called Longhorn [whistlerblackcomb.com]. The initial plan for Windows was supposed to have Longhorn be a small release between XP (Whistler) and Blackcomb, with Blackcomb coming around 2006 or 2007. Thus, Longhorn, because it's a stop on your way from Whistler to Blackcomb. Somewhere along the line, Longhorn became a much more prominant release, so the codename is no longer as appropriate, but that's the root of the name.
Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows [winsupersite.com] has an entry in the XP FAQ (near the top, scroll down about 1/5th of the page) [winsupersite.com] and in the Longhorn FAQ (near the bottom) [winsupersite.com] that mention this in lesser detail, though he gets the location of Longhorn wrong. The Garibaldi Lift Co. [whistlerblackcomb.com] is the tavern at the base of Whistler. Quite a nice little tavern, too, if you've got friends who are into skiing or mountain biking and you're not.
Re:Longhorn? How about XP technology for XP? (Score:4, Informative)
You're kidding right? The very first time automatic update tries to turn on, it asks you if you want to:
1. Have it download and install updates automatically (great for grandma)
2. Just download, but ask me before installing
3. Notify me, but don't download or install anything.
4. Totally turn off automatic updates
Before you join the, "windows sucks no matter what" group on
Re:Why Longhorn Stuffs? (Score:4, Funny)
I want to know too! (Score:3, Insightful)
I want to know that too. I'm running Win98SE without any trouble. Why should I upgrade to Longhorn?
Re:I want to know too! (Score:2, Informative)
Wasn't Win98SE support to be discontinued? Maybe there was a stay of execution -- I seem to recall Microsoft trying to shead the image of a leech requiring blood too often by stating 7 years would be the support period.
By the way, you were supposed to upgrade to Win2K then WinXP. Didn't you get the memo?
Re:I want to know too! (Score:3, Funny)
Random Guess: You desperately want to see Doom 3 run on your old hardware at
Re:I want to know too! (Score:3, Insightful)
I want to know that too. I'm running Win98SE without any trouble. Why should I upgrade to Longhorn?
you shouldn't, unless you plan to upgrade your hardware too.
Re:I want to know too! (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, my next computer will probably be running it too. There's a hack to get around the 768MB limit, and my understanding is that 98SE will simply ignore any CPUs beyond the first, so I shouldn't have any trouble.
Re:I want to know too! (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, there is no 'incentive to upgrade'. How many people replace one version of Windows by another? Maybe some do to get away from an unsupported version like Win95, or a version which does not support new peripherals like Win98, but not that many people upgrade. The market has moved on from the days where the choice was between Win 3.11 and Win95.
The market is in new systems. The natural (non-)decision is to get the newest version available, and that will eventually be Longhorn. Microsoft would save themselves a lot of money by not bothering to produce a new version of Windows. Then again, how long has WinXP been on sale? Maybe they are doing exactly that.
Re:I want to know too! (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, there is no 'incentive to upgrade'. How many people replace one version of Windows by another?
Corporations and other volume buyers certainly do. Maybe not the moment the new version comes out, but eventually many will want all their desktops to run the same version OS - even small differences in the system's behavior and management tools can add up to a lot of extra complexity when you're managing hundreds or thousands of machines. So after they get a few dozen new machines in the door (likely to be loaded with Longhorn), the pressure to upgrade the rest will start to build.Re:I want to know too! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I want to know too! (Score:3, Interesting)
Is that the real limit, or are those just the "officialy supported" OSs? I know of (and play) several games that are supposedly 2K/XP only on my 98SE box.
Obligatory (Score:4, Funny)
-MSFT
Re:Obligatory (Score:3, Funny)
I think... (Score:3, Interesting)
1st...?
Re:I think... (Score:3, Insightful)
The incentive to upgrade... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Chances are the Adobe app is making use of features _new_ to XP. So, what you are essentially bitching about is that these new features were not back ported to whatever previous version of MS OS you used.
And of course, if MS did back port these new features, you'd be bitching how MS is always adding new fangled features to released version of OS that do nothing but add bugs, insecurity, and instability.
Just admit there is nothing MS could ever do to appease you, and quit fucking using their software. That's why god gave you Linux.
Re:The incentive to upgrade... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The incentive to upgrade... (Score:5, Informative)
History repeats? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:History repeats? (Score:3, Funny)
I'm sure those words would echo through the halls of Microsoft like the sound of a swift approaching doom!
Re:History repeats? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:History repeats? (Score:5, Funny)
In all fairness I think it was Stallone's acting that did it in.
Re:History repeats? (Score:4, Funny)
Inappropriate use of the word acting I'd say...
If most of the updates will be available for curre (Score:5, Funny)
That it will WORK!
Then dont upgrade.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why does there need to be an incentive to upgrade? People allways complain that Microsoft "forces" them to upgrade (not that they ever have in my opinion), shouldn't we all be happy that thats not going to be the case (assumming that these two things are the only diference between XP and Longhorn, not that they are)?
Re:Then dont upgrade.... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you envied the work Apple did in the Quartz graphics layer, or are supportive of the work Keith Packard is doing for X.org, then Avalon is right up your alley. Goodbye, old GDI. (Well, almost. GDI will now be .dlls that can be called up by Avalon, to display GDI in a window for old apps.
I understand a modicum of cynicism - but claims that these changes are for arbitrary lack of compatibility betray an unalloyed ignorance.
Re:Then dont upgrade.... (Score:5, Informative)
Scaling? World transformations [microsoft.com] that provide scaling, rotation and shearing have always (since NT3.1) existed. Why isn't it used more often? IDK, but I'm sure they could start using it without a complete rewrite.
Acceleration? Driver capability negotiation [microsoft.com] has always been implemented. DirectX also supports many optimizations.
Possible movement of the window manager into user mode? I'm sure that win32k.sys could be moved back into winsrv.dll like it was before NT4.
Graphics composition (IE caching of window data to avoid application refresh)? Trivial redirection of video ops to a memory DC and the fact that transparency is already supported without refreshing the lower window, tell me that this could be accomplished without a rewrite too. Besides, I don't know if I like the idea of spending all that memory on storing large bitmaps of how each window looks.
Vector based drawing? Enhanced Metafiles [microsoft.com] have always been supported in NT. You can easily redirect the output (all GDI commands can be recorded) of a progam into a EMF, view/edit the records and play it back any time, even with a world transformation.
Use 3d polygons instead of a 2d frame buffer? This would require considerable modification but only to the way that regions are computed; you can already put direct3d objects in a window with a polygonal region around the edges. One way or the other, you are still outputting to a 2d surface. And really, what is the point? Woo 3d icons.
Really, what is so broken about GDI that it needs to be replaced? IMO, there are far more important things to be overhauled in Windows than the video system. Rewriting a major component to provide eye candy should be a very low priority.
Another thing is that Avalon does not fill the same role as GDI does; Avalon also does what USER does and some shell stuff too. I'm saying that the important things in Avalon could be implemented using GDI.
Indigo (Score:5, Funny)
I didn't know about Avalon, but Microsoft has said for quite a while they were going to be releasing Indigo for platforms other than Longhorn. Indigo is a technology that will be replacing .NET remoting and it allows for secure, reliable and transactional communication between .NET applications. It only made sense to have a version available for other versions of Windows to make sure that applications could communicate.
Re:Indigo (Score:5, Informative)
I loved how the bangboy submitter called it a "new networking architecture". Indigo is a SOA stack that will bring .NET more into J2EE territory. It has less to do with "networking" than building distributed applications.
I hope this... ah... helps and all that =)
Re:Indigo (Score:3, Funny)
I see where your +5 Funny comes from.
Historical, People Like Upgrades (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, even if two technologies get ported, Longhorn is supposed to be a "unified" desktop with Internet, mail, etc. This is one major reason to upgrade for the tech-newbies and possibly the tech-geeks.
Re:Historical, People Like Upgrades (Score:4, Insightful)
You hear a tinny voice say, "that's not a feature, that's a bug.
Upgrades have the appearance of better quality and more "on-the-edge."
*bleed* *bleed* *bleed*
Historically, particularly in shops I've worked in, we are vveeeerrrryyyy slow to upgrade, typically only introducing new operating system iterations with new computer purchases, while phasing out the old versions. It usually means supporting a few platforms, but far less harrowing than performing a backup, installing the upgrade and seeing things go PFFT! FRACK! POP! SPROING! GING! and trying to simultaneaously comfort a user who has now lost all confidence in technology and it's minions while sorting out the incompatibilities and damages.
Re:Historical, People Like Upgrades (Score:4, Funny)
So the OS won't just be IE anymore? It'll also be Outlook Express? Helloooo viruses.
Re:Historical, People Like Upgrades (Score:5, Insightful)
So was Windows 95! Microsoft has promised a revolutionary new interface for several generations of Windows now, but we've only been afforded a new incarnation of the infamous Start button. And, although many argue that the GUI cannot be functionally extrapolated with current hardware, OS X does provide a strong counterargument. Could it be that those who "defend the right to innovate" are simply not particularly innovative themselves?
Get off the "no innovation" high horse (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sick of this tripe. I don't mean to jump on you alone, but I've seen way too much of this FUD parroted around Slashdot, and you're the winner of my rant. :-)
If Microsoft doesn't innovate, then why is it that the list of improvements in the Linux 2.6 kernel reads like a feature list of NT from the early 90's?
That's just comparing the kernel, and I won't even go into the features that NT has that Linux still hasn't implemented.
You probably didn't know that NT already had those features, because most people don't seem to know much about Windows beyond the GUI. They assume that what they see on the surface is all that goes on. (And don't make the mistake that the NT kernel is the only innovative part about Windows.)
My point is that you shouldn't yell about the lack of innovation in a product just because the feature you're looking for isn't there.
Re:Get off the "no innovation" high horse (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Get off the "no innovation" high horse (Score:3, Insightful)
--
Re:Get off the "no innovation" high horse (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Get off the "no innovation" high horse (Score:3, Insightful)
On one hand, yes, people don't give MS enough credit for innovating. They've written a whole lot of code. Certainly some of it was new and original! Hey, we may laugh at things like Clippy and Microsoft Bob, but they were new ideas.
On the other hand, the comparison between NT and Linux 2.6 isn't terribly useful. For one thing, other OSes (especially OS/2) may have had those features before NT.
Re:Get off the "no innovation" high horse (Score:3, Insightful)
Async I/O? Can we say UNIX sockets or iostreams?
fully preemptible kernel with fine-grained locking: A quick search turned up this: http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/eykholt92beyond.html [psu.edu]
so solaris definately had it in 92, if not earlier.
support for HT: wtf? now it's innovation to support a chip's features?
Actually, none of the things you have listed are innovations. You sir are a troll.
Re:Historical, People Like Upgrades (Score:4, Insightful)
Ignorance, mostly. That or "it came with the new computer"
Re:Historical, People Like Upgrades (Score:4, Funny)
Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
.NET (Score:3, Interesting)
Note that the features in this article being made available for Windows XP are APIs. Those can be easily backported. Longhorn itself, however, is a major architectural change.
Linux is too complicated! (Score:2, Funny)
Errr... .
What do you need an 'incentive' for? (Score:3, Funny)
Longhorn eaten by tiger (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, Apple is adding features that were supposed to be in Longhorn into Tiger and it will be available early in 2005. Meanwhile MS is removing those same features just so they can hit a 2006 launch date. Huh?
The funniest bit was all my Windows collegues telling me about how fantastic Longhorn was going to be and how it would allow MS users to overtake the Mac.....
Guess not!
Incetive to STAY with Windows... (Score:2)
Now we're just back to getting "free" features...
Subscription Company (Score:2)
Microsoft was once interested in becoming a subscription-based retailer. Perhaps you will be capable of upgrading Windows XP by using an extension to Windows Update, not unlike certain distributions of Linux and other Unix-like operating systems. Such a maneuver would enable them to combat the "pseudo-instant availability" of many alternative operating systems.
Windows 2000 (Score:5, Insightful)
What was the incentive to upgrade from Windows 2000 to XP*. Let's see, we had:
- Rearranged control panel
- A new theme
- Ummm...the search puppy [tweakxp.com]?
The die-hard fans will upgrade because it's the latest and greatest, everyone else will get it with their next computer, and the corporate world will wait 3 years and then take the plunge.
This is still a blow to Microsoft, but not a major one. Maybe another baby step away from the OS monoculture.
*I know there was more incentive to upgrade from Windows ME, but I'm sure many a 2000 user switched over as well.
Re:Windows 2000 (Score:4, Informative)
Windows XP took the stability of Windows 2000 and polished it for consumer use.
The incentive was to get off 9x (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know if you noticed, but XP was geared toward consumers. It got people off of 9x kernels, and for that I am eternally grateful! Not to mention System Restore, increased application compatibility, and various other minor features.
Re:Windows 2000 (Score:4, Informative)
I upgraded to XP primarily because I got sick of having to run Server to use Terminal Services. That said, I can get a Windows 2000 installation acting the way I want it to in just under ten minutes. To get Windows XP to work the way I want it to it takes me three hours minimum. Since my computer is limping along in need of a rebuild, I'm seriously considering blowing away XP and installing Linux or BSD.
Re:Windows 2000 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Windows 2000 (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously?
You're kidding us.
I have a list of about 20 games that wouldn't run in Windows 2000 Pro but run fine in Windows XP... even without considering "Compatibility Mode" XP ran 5-10 more games than 2000 Pro did.
If you're finding Windows 2000 more compatible with games than XP, you really need to look into your drivers and your DirectX install, because you have something wrong with your system.
Compatibility for Applications (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a win-win IMHO, Windows developers get to use new features and develop application using more intuitive and powerful tools and Microsoft gets a larger application base for Longhorn.
-- D3X
Speeding up application development and adaptation (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: What is the incentive to upgrade? (Score:5, Insightful)
But what do I know?
(The color theme for it.slashdot.org needs a revision btw)
Forced upgrades (Score:2, Insightful)
Remember the product activation in XP? All MS has to do is end-of-life XP and you can't re-install it because MS won't authorize it. You'll be fine with your current system until you need to do a re-install, then you'll buy the next version even though it offers you nothing new and you know you'll have the same problem in another 3-4 years.
They say they wouldn't do that. (Score:5, Informative)
Will Microsoft use activation to force me to upgrade? In other words, will Microsoft ever stop giving out activation codes for any of the products that require activation?
No, Microsoft will not use activation as a tool to force people to upgrade. Activation is merely an anti-piracy tool, nothing else.
Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end of the product's lifecycle so users would no longer be required to activate the product.
Re:They say they wouldn't do that. (Score:3, Insightful)
So they guarantee that at the end of the product lifecycle (which is completely up to them to determine) they will stip providing the activation service. They also say they will "likely" turn off activation, that's legal-speak for never in a million years. Especially si
Ya'd think (Score:3)
The result? Win98 became the best-selling OS ever, as most of the people pretty much thought paying $80-90 for an OS that was going to last them 3 years or so would be no big deal.
So new MediumHorn with proper marketing and few pizzazz added will be just as welcome as Win98.
Wasting resources (Score:2)
Smart Move (Score:5, Insightful)
One competitor already finished (Score:3, Insightful)
So even if Avalon comes out, say, in 2005, that means the competition, Apple, has implemented it for 4 years already. I do know Avalon and Quartz aren't the same in letter, but they are the same in spirit, being 3d accelerated hardware based composition and rendering engines.
As for other technologies... we'll see how fast Apple's Tiger comes out, and the next rel
who really upgrades anyways, pre-installs is their (Score:3, Interesting)
So, if they can't force hardware upgrades then they will be slowing down sales of their future OS. This isn't typical for Microsoft and I don't expect this to happen. Or atleast they most likely won't be upgrading XP or 2003 to the 2007 version. Just small bits and pieces.
gawd, remember when they wouldn't upgrade USB support into Win95? OEMs were probably hammered into only pre-loading Win98 with that incredible USB support.
Trust me, Microsoft will not do anything at the expense of OS uptake( not upgrade ). XP won't get much useful stuff. that'll only be in 2007.
IMHO
LoB
The Joy of Updating isn't the Update Itself... (Score:5, Funny)
My best sig is this one.
Incentive: (Score:5, Funny)
Mozilla allows you to change the colors (Score:3, Informative)
... will make the links here the regular Slashdot green.
Examples [w3.org] bug comment [mozilla.org]
It was checked into the trunk codebase after Firefox had branched, so it won't show up in Firefox until the 1.1 builds.
Windows Graphic (Score:5, Interesting)
The technologies coming out of Microsoft might not be as innovative as they claim it to be, but it's certainly groundbreaking for a company with such magnitude as Microsoft to consent to the superiority of researched technologies.
Longhorn is going to include some exciting new technologies such as Avalon, WinFS, Indigo, and most importantly their new Monad (you really must research this, as it could do for Longhorn what BASIC did for Microsoft's first operating systems). While these are just codenames for abstract ideas (and possibly just buzzwords) it will certainly be exciting to see some of these things deployed.
This is the longest Microsoft has ever waited to release an OS. Windows 95 to Windows 98 took only 3 years, as the names describe. Windows Longhorn looks as if it will take up to 7 years. What can be done in seven years' time with hundreds of emplyees? Amazing stuff.
Linux has some serious issues. I'm not going to argue how many compared to Windows, because that argument would be futile. Instead I will offer my "credibility" as an unbiased commentator:
I'm 17 and have been using Linux since 2001 after getting my first computer sometime in '98. It didn't take long for me to fall in love with it. Since then, I've been using Debian GNU/Linux for the past few years, and enjoy it's breadth of developer friendly software. I've used FreeBSD, and plan to play around with BSD's like OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD, and even get a Mac G5. I also plan to make my own Linux from Scratch, an embedded uClinux distro with BusyBox, and other fun things like that; eventually working my way up to hacking on the Linux kernel. I would also enjoy testing out Hurd, as well.
However, if what's coming out of Microsoft is as developer friendly as advertised to be (what really IS these days anyways, but that's not for me to predict) then Linux might have a problem. If people are really going to be able to hack up some XML applicaton like what's hyped, there might be some serious problems, no matter how many Mono's or GNU DotNETs there are.
Until the community stops getting cocky and starts getting worried, nothing will ever go anywhere. Being afraid is a good thing(tm), because it gets people working harder.
So, again, I emplore somebody to please change the graphic to more accurately represent what we have to fear this new century.
-Devin Torres
Re:Windows Graphic (Score:3, Insightful)
Longhorn is going to include some exciting new technologies such as Avalon, WinFS, Indigo, and most importantly their new Monad (you really must research this, as it could do for Longhorn what BASIC did for Microsoft's first operating systems). While these are just codenames for abstract ideas (and possibly ju
Re:Windows Graphic (Score:4, Insightful)
Solaris (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft Is Desperate (Score:5, Interesting)
MS is betting the company on Longhorn. No really. Their two major revenue streams, and the foundation of the modern MS is Windows and Office. Windows is a twisty maze of backwards compatibility all alike to keep both users and developers favorable to the platform. Office is packed full of enterprise features that Joe User never needs because Joe CEO does.
MS down to it's ancient roots with custom programming languages and tools, is firmly in the realm of the rich client. Linux and BSD and OS X (and SkyOS and BeOS, and Syllable and . . . ) are becoming more prevalent because suddenly fully half of a users apps are portable! No not Office or Photoshop, but Yahoo and Google. Thin clients!
The gigahertz war between AMD and Intel last left MS with a glut of processing power and no software capable of using it. Once MS caught up with the processor, they drove home the power of the rich client, and reestablished their platform as the primary environment for building them.
It's happened again. Processor power is far beyond what 90% of the increasingly computer literate public needs, just like when x86 procs hit 1Ghz. But this time there is a growing base of truly alternative development and user platforms (not just OS/2 and MacOS 8, but the various POSIX and embedded platforms) while on the other side, the thin client has a solid hold in several key applications (email, dictionaries, encyclopedias, hell, even video games).
MS wants to emulate the success of Windows 95. They want to bring an enterprise technology to the masses (NT, XP was really just a dry run for that), show users that there is a reason for all this new hardware, and reestablish themselves as THE application development environment for rich clients. It's not just getting users to upgrade (though that would make them super happy) its getting developers to use the technology.
And they've realized that they can't bet on a huge upgrade kick to make Avalon and Indigo dominant, XP taught and continues to teach them that. So bringing these heavy investment technologies to a wider audience is the only way that MS can continue to be the largest software company in the world, and see any kind of rapid return on Longorn. If they loose this battle, they become the desktop version of Sun Microsystems. A giant, who still does good work, and whose technologies still have some milage, but ultimately in it's final days
Duh (Score:3, Insightful)
Think about it: if Longhorn is a major break from Win2k3/WinXP, and products written for Longhorn (using Avalon, XAML, Indigo features, taking advantage of WinFS, etc.) won't run on these older technologies, what software company in its right mind would write code using said technologies? NONE.
However, if software companies could write code that utilizes these new features, and these new features would also work on older, still in-use OSes, then said technologies become an option for a software company.
This move makes sense: without it, Longhorn would have a next to impossible time gaining market traction, IMO.
Upgrade? (Score:3, Insightful)
You poor misguided fool (Score:3, Insightful)
Hah, Why do you think you'll have the option of *not* upgrading once you buy a new computer or some new hardware comes out that winxp doesn't support?
Don't you worry little droogie. You'll upgrade.
Solitaire/Minesweeper rendering engines? (Score:3, Funny)
The WinXP version was kick ass and had better AI than the POS 9x equivalents.
I dunno, I just hope they do something besides put in a great new engine.. maybe do something about the deck-hackers on the internet. They really like to ruin everyone's fun and it pisses me off.
Your reason for updates: "Me too" (Score:3, Insightful)
So you don't look like a complete bozo when all your friends show off their Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" and Linux new X.org systems. Both are looking really cool already, are getting lots of press coverage, and Microsoft needs to do something to give their customers the feeling that they are not being left behind any more than they are already. This is a "me too" release.
It's about the developers (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has been seeing increased resistance [joelonsoftware.com] from developers over stuff like Avalon.
"No, I _don't_ want to throw away my WinForms stuff to develop for Avalon, which may be easier and more powerful to use, but will restrict my target market to those running Longhorn," is the general vibe.
By making Avalon available for Windows XP (presumably as some sort of runtime), Microsoft makes developing against Avalon a more realistic proposition.
As for all the users in here asking "why the hell would I want Avalon?" - some application developer will choose to use Avalon, and if you want that application, you'll want Avalon.
Re:Article Text (Score:2, Troll)
Who modded this informative?
Re:Well, duh. (Score:4, Funny)
C'mon, this is the man credited with saying (on more than one accasion I might add):
"Bwahahahahahaha. Fools! I'll destroy them all!
Re:Wow (Score:3, Funny)
MONEY
I like it!
Re:How will the licensing structure work for XP/2K (Score:5, Insightful)
And SP1 broke XP machines? I've never heard of that, and I've upgraded around 20 AND read slashdot regularly
Jeez, if I had mod points I would mod you "unintelligible"
Re:what is the incentive to upgrade? (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you need XAML for?
What do you need Avalon for?
Look, I've gone over to a Mac. Mac OS X has some of the nifty features that Microsoft's talking about. Quartz Extreme is really cool and I'm sure Avalon will be just peachy. But these things are not why I use my Mac... in fact my Mac just barely runs QE using a third-party hack, and I've got it turned off right now. It's a G4-upgraded G3 with no AGP and second-generation PCI. It doesn't run Panther (I tried) and it won't run Tiger. But I still consider it an upgrade over my 1.7 GHz P4 even though it's 1/4 the clock speed and has 1/4 the bus bandwidth and 3/4 the RAM and nowhere near enough expansion slots.
So.. it's not the new features. It's the fact that it's a hell of a lot closer to the "it just works" ideal. It really does... just work. I don't have to deal with all the hassles of Windows, I can just use it. Yeh, Apple is heading into the same feature mess, and maybe it's a good thing that I can't upgrade to Tiger. But if I could have upgraded to something as (relatively) bug free on that P4, even if it came out of Redmond, I'd have done it. Even if it had fewer "features" than XP.
THAT would be an incentive to upgrade. New APIs that I only need because other people have upgraded so I have to upgrade to be compatible? I'd probably do it, eventually, but I wouldn't like it.
Re:what is the incentive to upgrade? (Score:4, Insightful)
I recently bought a Mac and I agree that most things "just work"... provided you stick with Apple-recommended hardware. iPod "just works". My Sony camera, despite having a basic firewire port that's properly handled in both Windows and Linux, doesn't. When you don't mind a monoculture of hardware, Macs are great.
That's one of the nice things about Windows, and one of its biggest drawbacks: you can pop just about any hardware in and it'll recognize it, configure it. I've been continually surprised digging up old ethernet cards, popping them into 2003 servers, and having them work as soon as the system starts up. Only problem is sometimes there's too much variance, and the system gets flaky trying to match 1980s hardware with 200x drivers.