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Technology

Electromagnetic Suspension System 309

chuckgrosvenor writes "Every automotive suspension has two goals: passenger comfort and vehicle control. Unfortunately, these goals are in conflict. Two much comfort, and the car rolls and pitches a lot, too much control and you feel every bump. BOSE has found the happy medium by using electromagnetic motors, power amplifiers, & computer control algorithms to even out the road, while still feeling connected to it. Check the quicktime movies to see two different cars stay level while they go through cornering exercises." Reader gatekeep writes "Amar Bose, founder of the Bose Corporation and MIT professor and alumnus, has recently unveiled a new electromagnetic car suspension system. It's said to have taken 24 years to develop. There's only minor technical details available so far, but the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in its path!"
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Electromagnetic Suspension System

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  • Amazing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crtfdgk ( 807485 ) * on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:02PM (#10093952) Journal
    Despite how critical I am of developments like this, I have to say that those videos and the pictures are amazing. This technology could actually be implemented, it seems ready by the look and tone of the article, and thats pretty rare on Slashdot. Most newer technologies featured on /. always seems unlikely and full of holes, but this one seems a lot more solid.

    Like the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'd say the video more like a million. And those pictures show quite a bit. Plus the over-exposed headlights picture is a pretty cool way to demonstrate within a picture. But of course the video shows it all. And i think its amazing.

    Just my two cents.
    • Re:Amazing (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaiBLUEl.com minus berry> on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:14PM (#10094025) Homepage Journal
      1. Why is the parent redundant? It's the first post for crying out loud!

      2. Is it just me, or do the "normal" cars look like they've got lousy shocks? Sure, some "dive" is to expected when taking a tight corner, but these things practically hit the ground! In the "Demo Course" video, the cars don't even look like they're going that fast. Maybe 30-40 MPH tops.

      That being said, the suspension system is impressive. The balance of the Bose equipped car never wavers. Unless I miss my guess, the thing looks gyroscope stabilized. Combined with powered shocks with near-instant response time, I see little reason why this couldn't work. Kudos to Bose!

    • Re:Amazing (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fakeplasticusername ( 701500 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `namekid'> on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:40PM (#10094144)
      Most newer technologies featured on /. always seems unlikely and full of holes, but this one seems a lot more solid.
      I think its partially because it isn't among the usual triumvurate of slashdot stories regarding technology; power generation, revolutionary computer tech, and bio/nano tech. If this site was more slanted to automotive news, we would have heard about this story sometime last year, the details would be spotty, and the evidence would be missing. Slashdot will usually report auto news if it involves some part of the triumvurate (nano-tech coating, hybrid cars, electric cars, etc).

      Not that i'm bashing automotive news, i'm just offering an explanation.
      • Re:Amazing (Score:4, Interesting)

        by chuckgrosvenor ( 473314 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:53PM (#10094211) Homepage
        Actually you only heard about it today, because today was the first day it appeared on the corporate website. A friend of mine at Bose has been talking about this ever since he started working there. It looks pretty cool, but the Boston Globe reported it might cost around $20K US. I also got the impression that high speed (over 60 mph) performance wasn't going to be as perfect.

        Still, if it makes down to the cheaper vehicles in five or ten years, it might make everyday driving far more pleasant. Certainly the first major improvement in suspension in several decades.
    • Re:Amazing (Score:5, Insightful)

      by aspx ( 808539 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:12PM (#10094318)
      I drive a car with an air spring suspension (instead of traditional coil spring). Air suspension has a lot of advantages, like load leveling and the softest spring rate for a given load, which translates to a smooth ride. For these benefits, I pay increased maintanance costs. The air springs require periodic replacement, as do the mechanical and electronic components of the system. I recently payed $600 for a repair.

      Electromagnetic suspension is a step forward for ride quality, but it will come at a price. You'll have to decide if the benefits are worth the increased costs. With the marketing genius of Bose, I predict this system will soon debut on flagship luxury cars.
    • Term. (Score:5, Informative)

      by hot_Karls_bad_cavern ( 759797 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @12:02AM (#10094492) Journal
      Just pickin' 'cause i use my camera (a lot), but that is not really over-exposure, the technique used there is what is refered to as a "rear-synced" exposure....the flash is synced to bang at the end of the exposure lighting the subject at the end of its movement during the shot. You are most correct in stating that this is an excellent way to show how this suspension acts though...a damn good way. It's also how some very dramatic and motion-capturing shots are taken in nightclubs and other low-light situations. Very nice effect and used here perfectly.

      Again, just picking 'cause i'm love with the camera ;-)
  • Like (Score:5, Insightful)

    by OverlordQ ( 264228 ) * on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:03PM (#10093959) Journal
    the rest of Bose things it will probably come WAY overpriced.
    • Re:Like (Score:4, Insightful)

      by 1000101 ( 584896 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:10PM (#10093998)
      Overpriced is in the eye of the beholder. I have a Bose Wave CD-Radio that most of my friends think I paid way too much for. I think I got a great piece of hardware that no other company can currently match. I guess you could say the same thing about the iPods.
      • Re:Like (Score:2, Interesting)

        by DAldredge ( 2353 )
        What is so special about it?
        • Re:Like (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Hadlock ( 143607 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @01:28AM (#10094764) Homepage Journal
          Have you ever plunked one down in someone's living room and turned the volume up loud? Go get one of those "try our bose wave radio out for free" jobbies and do a comparative test between the wave radio and your radio alarm clock at the same volume. A bose wave radio + ipod make the ultimate in dorm room stereo technology :)
      • "Overpriced is in the eye of the beholder." Indeed. Overpriced? Not to anyone that's sat down and compared or used their products. My Bose tower speakers sounded far and away better than any others in their price range.
      • So now all your ClearChannel crapscape sounds terrific!
  • by elmegil ( 12001 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:03PM (#10093960) Homepage Journal
    the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in it's path!

    Mach 5! Yeah!

  • I recall hearing about this back in the very early 90's. they made it sound like they had a product and in about a year or two you would see them in the Big 3 cars.... still waiting.
  • *sigh* (Score:3, Funny)

    by TWX ( 665546 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:05PM (#10093977)

    How long before someone decides to ask Slashdot how to add this to an existing car [slashdot.org]...
  • First Suspension (Score:4, Interesting)

    by paul248 ( 536459 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:05PM (#10093979) Homepage
    Here's a pretty cool video about the brand new suspension systems of 1938:
    http://www.archive.org/details-db.php?mediatype=mo vies&identifier=OvertheW1938 [archive.org]
  • Old news (Score:5, Funny)

    by pyrrhonist ( 701154 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:06PM (#10093982)
    In one final display that left onlookers speechless yesterday, the company showed how the suspension system can be coaxed into jumping -- yes, jumping -- over obstacles in its path.

    This is nothing new. The Mach 5 had this in 1966.

    This "new" system doesn't even have a kid and a monkey in the trunk, let alone make the "ch-ch-ch-ch" sound.

  • by shfted! ( 600189 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:07PM (#10093987) Journal
    ... one could route the bass frequency from one's car stereo into the suspension to get that extra bass feel?

    It would sure beat doing the brake-gas tap dance to headbang in sequence with the music while driving :D
  • Gives New Meaning... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:08PM (#10093990) Homepage
    Gives new meaning to the phrase "No highs, no lows... it's Bose" doesn't it.

    I like Bose personally. To bad a system like this would be expensive (at least for a few years untill mass production made it more reasonable). Guess that means that unless I strike it rich and can buy a fancy car that would include this (I assume this would be on BMWs or Mercedes), my car will be bouncing on bumpy roads. I'd love to try driving one though.

  • I'd consider driving in Idaho.
  • There's only minor technical details available so far, but the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in it's path!"

    Does it come with concealed machine guns, oil slicks, and bulletproof glass?

  • by Anonymous Coward
    You want your tires on the ground at all times. When a tire leaves the ground, you lose control.

    Pitching and yawing can be controlled with proper FBW controls as well as better center-weighted metering.

    This is a gimmick. Not surprising, it is Bose... (Ever taken a look at the inside of their "omni-directional" speaker system? They just face the speaker inwards to create an echo chamber. It does nothing but muffle the actual audio.)
    • by dopaz ( 148229 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:46PM (#10094434) Homepage
      How did this get modded informative? An infinitely variable damper is not a gimmick. It would be infinitely useful. The demonstration where the car jumps is just showing how much force this suspension system can generate. The real innovation here is that everything is done electronically, whereas older systems used hydraulics. Check out this article for the basics of why this is a good thing: Active Suspension [edmunds.com] Also, GM's new Cadillac XLR [cadillac.com] uses an electromagnetic suspension, as well as the forthcoming 6th generation Corvette [chevrolet.com].
    • Amazing how a comment from someone who obviously hasnt even read the article gets rated +5 informative.

      In one final display that left onlookers speechless yesterday, the company showed how the suspension system can be coaxed into jumping -- yes, jumping -- over obstacles in its path. "Can't you just imagine the kids with this going down Main Street?" laughed Bose, who emphasized the feature will be eliminated before it is sold to customers.

      It's pretty obvious that the jumping thing was just for sh

  • Okay, it can jump over obstacles. But when someone tailgates you, can you wait until the other car speeds up, jump to let it pass under you, then shoot it when it gets ahead of you?
  • by foxtrot ( 14140 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:23PM (#10094068)
    From my amateur race car driver's perspective.

    Imagine putting the crew chief in the car-- and basically replacing him with a very small shell script.

    Is the car pushing on entry? Back off the front repulsors a few volts. Dial a volt or two into the back... Adjust wedge on the fly.

    And the sick thing is, you don't even have to make the driver do it. A few sensors on various wheels and currently available computing horsepower and it'll know on its own. A car that dynamically adjusts itself to optimal handling as the weather changes, the track temperature changes, the fuel load changes, the tires lose grip.

    -JDF
    • by Osty ( 16825 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:59PM (#10094241)

      Imagine putting the crew chief in the car-- and basically replacing him with a very small shell script.

      Bad idea. No shell script can ever hope to compete with a properly experienced crew chief. Look at pros like F1 teams, where they have all of the wizbang gadgetry you could ever want (telemetry is cool!), and they still have crew chiefs. I could see this being useful for limited applications in a very amateur setting, but anything more serious would require a crew chief with knowledge.


      Is the car pushing on entry? Back off the front repulsors a few volts. Dial a volt or two into the back... Adjust wedge on the fly.

      Worse idea. The last thing you want to be doing during a race is making adjustments on the fly like that. Ignoring the logistics of how you'd do it (limited mobility within a cockpit, even of a touring car), trying to decide if you need to dial up two volts or three, or if you should be dialing down, or if you even have the right dial is not a good idea. If you have time to do anything more than glance at your tach (and often, you shouldn't even need that, instead trusting engine sound to tell you when to shift), you're not driving fast enough. This will not make you more competitive, and will add quite a few more possible points of failure.


      And the sick thing is, you don't even have to make the driver do it. A few sensors on various wheels and currently available computing horsepower and it'll know on its own. A car that dynamically adjusts itself to optimal handling as the weather changes, the track temperature changes, the fuel load changes, the tires lose grip.

      What is optimal handling? Such a system would need a very configurable interface, because no two drivers prefer the same setup. You may like a car that "pushes" (or "understeers", as we non-NASCAR fans like to say), while I may like a car that's "loose" (or "oversteers"). Guess what? That requires a lot of setup beforehand, and will change from track to track so you'll spend much of your available pre-race practice time monkeying with electronics same as you would monkeying with mechanical suspensions. That goes back to the first point, where you will still need a good crew chief.


      Finally, this can only compensate for variables that a suspension can affect. If my brakes start to fade late in a race, there's nothing the suspension can do about it. Same for losing aerodynamic pieces of the car. I also wouldn't trust it with unexpected track surface problems (oil or other fluid spills in the race line, dirt or gravel pulled onto the track from off-track excursions, marbles when you have to go off-line for a pass or to avoid a collision, the changing amount of rubber left on braking zones and turns, etc). The transition would have to be completely smooth, and the driver would need a lot of seat time with the system under such conditions to learn what it does in such a scenario. Worst case, you'll lose control of the car because you were expecting it to handle one way, and the suspension changed right out from underneath you.

      • The thing you want to do during a race is make adjustments, even better if the car makes them automatically. Fuel loads change, track conditions change, tyres change. The more work the system does the more you can concentrate on what's left.

        Take a look at any race car there are any number of adjustments the driver makes. Be it brake bias, rollbar stiffness, boost, rev limiter, mixture, shocks. the fastest drivers are making these changes during a corner, the ideal setting for entry is most certainly th
    • IIRC, Williams debuted a fully active F1 suspension 10 years or more ago, but the FIA got paranoid and told them to shelve it.

      1 or 2 races ago, BAR showed up with a front diff in their car to prevent inside front wheel lockup. The FIA told them to ditch it and fined them. Mind you it wasn't a powered diff, and it added weight to the car. The FIA's reasoning was presumably that it was a significant competitive advantage.

      So, for all of the advancement F1 symbolizes, they are stuck in their own NASCAR dar
  • by Judg3 ( 88435 ) <jeremy@@@pavleck...com> on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:23PM (#10094069) Homepage Journal
    All I hope is that this system isn't TOO good. Take electronic sterring - worked great, but people hated it. Why? It's was to good, too "disconnected", you couldn't 'feel' the road under you - it made people uneasy, like they where floating.

    Likewise, if this system is so good, so good in fact that people literally don't feel the road at all, they'll shy away from it. There's just something weird about driving and not being able to feel the road under you - it's like being disconnected, giving you a feeling of not being in control.

    (Electronic systems tried to compromise by adding force feedback, but it was to late by then)
    • i thought electronic steering went nowhere because the DOT would never approve a system that failed if you blew a fuse.
      • The lack of feel was the big thing, if people loved it, they (automakers) would have found a way to get it approved. Just like fly by wire - you just build enough redundancy in the system to make sure that catastrophic failures are rare and require the failure of more then one single piece.

        To be perfectly honest, I would have rejected a drive-by-wire system too. It could react better then me and be more reliable then a mechanical system and I still wouldn't go for it - something about that seperation I don
    • Question: are you talking about power steering that uses an electric motor instead of a fluid-based system?

      Most of the new high-end BMW and Mercedes-Benz cars now use power steering systems powered by an electric motor due to the fact they weigh much less than traditional power steering systems.
    • by Grishnakh ( 216268 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @01:49AM (#10094842)
      All I hope is that this system isn't TOO good. Take electronic sterring - worked great, but people hated it. Why? It's was to good, too "disconnected", you couldn't 'feel' the road under you - it made people uneasy, like they where floating.

      Do you have any links? I've never heard of this (I assume you're talking about fully-separated drive-by-wire steering, with no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels).

      Your reasoning is suspect, however. If it worked as you say, it should have been an instant hit in large American luxury cars. Ever driven a Lincoln Town Car (specifically, an early 90's model; it may have changed since then)? I drove one once, and the power steering was so overboosted that there was almost no feedback at all. It felt like driving those older arcade driving games that had no feedback.

      Likewise, if this system is so good, so good in fact that people literally don't feel the road at all, they'll shy away from it. There's just something weird about driving and not being able to feel the road under you - it's like being disconnected, giving you a feeling of not being in control.

      A system with no feedback isn't "good". It's absolutely dangerous. Since you can't guarantee that the steered wheels will always steer the car in the intended direction, and that there will never be a loss of traction, feedback is necessary to compensate. This is true of both human-controlled and computer-controlled systems, and is a basic fundamental of control system theory.

      The people who "shied away" from this shied away from it the same way people would intuitively, but smartly, shy away from using a power saw with a blindfold on.
  • Not me... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:23PM (#10094070) Journal
    Allow me to rant for a moment...

    I find that just about all products, and automabiles especially, are getting excessively complicated, needlessly...

    My current car for instance... The shoulder belt is electronically moved into place when the door is closed, and forward when the door is opened. Since I have to fasten my lap belt anyhow, this doesn't make life one bit easier for me, yet, the sensor goes out, the motor goes out, and either I'm paying shitloads of money to get replacement parts to fix the damn thing, or I'm welding it in-place, and then manually unhooking two seatbelts... Piece of junk. Meanwhile, basic, old-fashioned 3-point seatbelts work better.

    These days, cars are mechanically more sound than they were previously, but electronicly less sound. Cars used to overheat because of serious problems... Now they overheat because the $5 sensor (that costs $200 to have replaced) went out, and the electric fan didn't kick on when things were getting too hot... Meanwhile, a mechnical fan, connected to the engine shaft, would have worked just as well, never failed, and would have been cheaper.

    Maybe I am just (slightly) paranoid, but it seems as if manufacturers are making things needlessly complex intentionally so that they can sell more cars, or get more money on repairs. Something like airbags I can understand, but 99+% of this high-tech junk is no better than the low-tech solution, and is more prone to failure, and need replairs.

    Well, even if it's not intentional, I want no part of it, because facts are facts, and the more high-tech, the more problems there will be.

    Getting this back to the topic, I'm sure this new technology is an impressive improvement, but dammed if I want it. Truck drivers might stand to benefit from it, considering their unique situation, but with a car or a truck, the roughness of the ride is a very important indicator of how much damage you are doing to your vehicle.

    If their intention is really to allow you to haul heavy-loads, while cushioning small bumps, why aren't they doing it the low-tech way? There are plenty of spring designs that could be used that would make the ride very smooth when there is no load, yet maintain the strength when loaded. You wouldn't get the benefit from it when loaded, however, when a truck is heavily loaded, you normally don't feel the small bumps anyhow... It's only when they are emtpy that the firm springs result in a rough-ride.
    • Re:Not me... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by DAldredge ( 2353 )
      Since they aren't making as much on auto loans they have to make thier profit somewhere. And that someplace is repairs.
      • That's probably the case... But personally, I'd spend twice as much to get a car without all those "conveniences", because the extra reliability would be well worth it. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any modern cars, at any price, without lots of high-tech junk, guarateed to fail.

        Having your car overheat in the middle of the desert, 100+ miles from nowhere, can be very serious.
      • Since they aren't making as much on auto loans they have to make thier profit somewhere. And that someplace is repairs.

        Actually, GMAC, the finance division of General Motors, was the most profitable division of the company. Therefore, all they need to do is make a car that gets people to want to finance it, since that's where they'll make their money.

        It ends with the same result; cars that are built to be less reliable, using cheaper parts, and just getting people to accept them

    • Re:Not me... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Osty ( 16825 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:38PM (#10094133)

      My current car for instance... The shoulder belt is electronically moved into place when the door is closed, and forward when the door is opened. Since I have to fasten my lap belt anyhow, this doesn't make life one bit easier for me, yet, the sensor goes out, the motor goes out, and either I'm paying shitloads of money to get replacement parts to fix the damn thing, or I'm welding it in-place, and then manually unhooking two seatbelts... Piece of junk. Meanwhile, basic, old-fashioned 3-point seatbelts work better.

      What kind of car are you driving? I haven't seen a system like that in a car for nearly a decade. They were in style for a few years in the late 80s and early 90s, but quickly died a quick death. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the automatic belt gave drivers a false sense of safety, thus causing them not to latch their lap belts. The lap belt is the most important piece of a three-point belt restraint system, and with only a shoulder belt you run a very high risk of slipping down your seat in a collision, catching the shoulder belt with your chin, and literally losing your head.


      Assuming, then, that you're driving a 10+ year old car, it's no wonder you have these types of problems. Such computer-controlled systems were still relatively new, and they've come quite a long way.

    • Re:Not me... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:47PM (#10094180) Homepage Journal
      Cars used to overheat because of serious problems... Now they overheat because the $5 sensor (that costs $200 to have replaced) went out, and the electric fan didn't kick on when things were getting too hot... Meanwhile, a mechnical fan, connected to the engine shaft, would have worked just as well, never failed, and would have been cheaper.

      The fan's drive belt breaks...

      Things were not magically indestructible in the past, buster.
      • He said "a mechnical fan, connected to the engine shaft". That means the drive shaft; no belt. The problem here is poor efficiency at high RPMs.
    • Your sentiments are understandable but here are a few points:

      1. The seat belt problem is a political issue, not a technical one. Up here in Canada, we all wear seatbelts and motorized harnesses are not mandated so we don't have them.

      2. Yes, cars are more complex but I think overall the complexity saves us money or adds real value. Because by the time your car gets overheated for a real reason, the damage has become real bad and more expensive.

      3. I don't know if active suspension will ever become inexpens
    • by buddha42 ( 539539 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:03PM (#10094277)
      I want no part of it, because facts are facts, and the more high-tech, the more problems there will be.
      When I die crashing my hoverbike because I was pulling 3G's and one of those newfangled e-lec-tronics failed, I will die a much happier man than if we'd listened to you, mister "hold it right here this has gone too far, back in the good old days we just used mechanics and we liked it."
    • Re:Not me... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SagSaw ( 219314 ) <<gro.ssomm> <ta> <todhsals>> on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:30PM (#10094380)
      These days, cars are mechanically more sound than they were previously, but electronicly less sound. Cars used to overheat because of serious problems... Now they overheat because the $5 sensor (that costs $200 to have replaced) went out, and the electric fan didn't kick on when things were getting too hot... Meanwhile, a mechnical fan, connected to the engine shaft, would have worked just as well, never failed, and would have been cheaper.

      I can think of at least four reasons to use an electric fan. First, it increases fuel efficiency. By turning off the fan when not needed more of the power from the engine is used to move the car down the road. Second, having fan speed proportional to engine speed really is not the correct relationship. If I am idling in heavy traffic on a hot day, I probably want the fan running faster than if I'm flying down the freeway at 80MPH on a cool day. Third, I have to imagine that it simplifies vehicle assembly since you don't have these large, thin, fairly delicate sheets of metal hanging off the front of the engine. Instead, the fan can be attached to and installed with the radiator. Finally, it allows for configurations where there the axis of rotation for the fan and the engine fall in different planes.

      None of these reasions have anything to do with adding complexity to get more money on repairs.
      • Re:Not me... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by evilviper ( 135110 )

        it increases fuel efficiency.

        Hmm... I have a few problems with that assertion.

        First of all, the gas used by spinning a small fan is nominal at best, and most likely that and much more gas is being wasted by other components that could be eliminated or just optimized.

        Second, it wastes much more gas if you must first turn it into electricity, and then use it to do work. The losses right there quite probably make up the difference in gas... At least driving here in the desert where it's hot most of the t

        • Re:Not me... (Score:3, Informative)

          I'm actually in the middle of swapping an electric fan from a Ford Taurus 3.8L into my 5.0L vehicle. Electric fans are cheaper energy wise, than mechanical clutch fans. At MOST my electric fan will draw 100A starting energy and about 30-40A constant. Even at 100A that's 1200W or about 1.6-1.7HP. Even with the conversion from mechanical energy to electrical energy at the alternator, assuming an abysmal 30% efficiency, that's still only a 4HP draw. My mechanical fan will draw well over 10HP. Maybe even 15HP a
    • Automatic shoulder belts are a poor solution for a regulatory problem. The US mandated that all cars must have an automatic restraint system in '93 or so. They meant airbags, but the manufacturers didn't have time to retool all of their vehicles before the deadline. The result was the automatic shoulder restraints. The following year, the cars came with airbags.

      I agree, the automatic shoulder restraints suck ass.

      -molo
    • Re:Not me... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thomasdelbert ( 44463 ) <thomasdelbert@yahoo.com> on Saturday August 28, 2004 @12:28AM (#10094586)
      The electronics in cars today have lead to significant improvements.

      The electric radiator fan instead of the mechanical (to use your example) - electric fans only exist in front wheel drive vehicles. The reason for that is FWD vehicles have tranversally mouted engines so putting a mechanicly driven fan is actually more complicated and costly and less reliable than an electric fan. Cars didn't used to have that because FWD only came onto the scene in the late 80's.

      Electronic fuel injectors instead of carburators - now cars use less fuel and produce less harmful emissions than before. The Dodge Ram that used to get 6 mpg now gets over 15.

      Electronic ignition saves fuel and improves the perfomance of the vehicle due to its ability to adapt to the changing conditions (temperature, speed, load, etc) on the engine and gets rid of the mechanical distributor (which was a maintenance issue).

      Truth is, solid-state electronics are always less prone to failure than their mechanical counterparts and usually have the ability to adapt instantly to changing conditions.

      The electronic suspension is a natural progression, something I've been waiting to see. I'm just surprised that it was Bose that introduced it first.

      The spring designs that you refer to - they are the leaf spring live-axle suspension - the oldest design known. My truck has that on the rear axle. Some have it one the front as well. You are correct that they have a smooth ride and that they handle a wide variety of load conditions. In fact, they can probably handle a wider range than this electronic suspension.

      The point of it though was that you can get great cornering ability without losing the smoothness of the ride. My truck corners quite poorly and the suspension is a major factor in that (the other factor being the higher centre of gravity).

      It seems that Bose demontrated this on a luxury car instead of on a truck, which prolly means that that was the target market of this system. Cars don't handle nearly the range of loads that trucks do (which is why cars can have independant suspesions on all four wheels) so it seems that your point of hauling loads is irrelevant in this discussion.

      As for reliability - the front suspension of my truck is independant, like most trucks. I've had all four ball joints replaced already. I've never had to replace any electronics in my car - anywhere. (I know - anectodal evidence...)

      To summerize, the leaf spring isn't going away, this system is designed to achieve different goals. And reliability isn't a concern when you compare it to the alternative.

      - Thomas;

  • by oR3n ( 808974 )
    Hm, I guess you can't really know at these early stages if such a product or whatever would succeed in the mass market, if it would, maybe like other people have said, it'd be overpriced. Maybe after they work out all the "kinks." Hopefully it won't be similar to "Micro$haft" products. =)
  • Typical Bose (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Osty ( 16825 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:30PM (#10094101)

    Little or no technical details, controlled environments that make their technology appear better than it is, and exaggeration. If you read the last article linked, it's not even a fair comparison. For instance, there's this quote:

    Docked atop an indoor road simulator, the test car's suspension system was switched on and off to highlight the difference between it and typical hydraulic systems.

    There's no reason to assume that the Bose suspension does not in any way affect the existing suspension, so simply switching it off is not a fair comparison.

    The idea of active suspension is not new, and Bose is not the only one doing it. GM has had "Magnetic Ride Control" [corvetteactioncenter.com] for a few years now, and other manufacturers [supercars.net] have similar active technologies. While the Bose articles are light on details, it seems that the Bose technology is not far different from other electronically controlled systems (something about electric motors at all four wheels, yet it apparently still uses standard pneumatic suspension components as well).


    Bose's flair for hyperbole and marketing is their only real asset. My ass it took 24 years to develop this technology. Perhaps it's been 24 years since there has been any significant innovation in suspension technology (I'm not buying it, though ...), but there's no way Bose has been working on this one piece of technology for 24 years.


    Bose can sell a $20 clock radio for $300, and a $1000 home theater system for $3500, and you can bet they'll sell this technology for quite a bit more than average as well, where similar systems are currently optioned around $1000-$3000 depending on the make (ie, Porsche's system is more expensive than Chevy's, and I would expect Bose to be even more expensive than Porsche)


    Besides, do you really trust a second-rate "hi-fi" (haha!) company to build the suspension for your car? I certainly wouldn't! Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Chevy, et al have been doing it for far longer, and have a much deeper wealth of automotive knowledge. I'll trust the experts on this one, rather than Bose.

    • The "magnetic ride control" used by GM and similar systems by others alters the performance of the shocks, but does nothing to help hard static cornering or a heavy load in the trunk. It's a lousy approach compared to what is possible.

      One company with a system that sounds similar to Bose, for mobile homes, (Aimright or Coast) went bankrupt a couple of years ago in California.

  • by kgbspy ( 696931 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:32PM (#10094110)
    Erm... a system just as good as this, if not superior to it, has been around for quite a while, and in its current generation [citroenet.org.uk] will do everything that this BOSE system does; most probably better. And this is based technology that has been around since the early 50s [citroen.mb.ca], with major changes only being introduced in the last 10 years or so.
  • Unfortunately.. (Score:5, Informative)

    by dj245 ( 732906 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:32PM (#10094112) Homepage
    ...The success of Bose is not due to superior products, but superior marketing. This article [liquidtheater.com], this one [pcmag.com], and this one [com.com] all point to Bose offering low quality products with some heavy duty marketing to back them up. I'm really not impressed by this latest invention, it just sounds to me like the "Just add magical magnets" effect. Put on some magnets, call it magic, make some money.
  • by dsurber ( 53971 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:37PM (#10094125)
    Mercedes already offer a comperable system on the 2004 SL, CL, and S class. This has been availble in the CL since the 2000 model year. This page is pure Flash, but it describes the system. http://www.mbusa.com/media/richmedia/main/models/t ech_demos/abc/abc.swf
  • First thought (Score:2, Insightful)

    by llZENll ( 545605 )
    I haven't looked at the video yet, but the first thought that came to mind is, I hope they actually make a good product if it's going into a car which peoples lives depend on. What I mean is pretty much anyone who knows anything about speakers knows BOSE is probably the most overpriced, overrated, POS speakers you can buy, this is probably the doing of the BOSE board of directors rather than Mr. Bose though.
  • Good-bye bumpstops (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Since it seems all residential streets in America are thoroughly infested with these bumpstops (forcing you to reduce the speed from the legal 25 mph to around 5 mph ), I welcome this new suspension.
  • by soluzar22 ( 219097 ) * <soluzar@hotmail.com> on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:50PM (#10094192)
    ...is something similar to this whereby the entire car is quite simply propelled by magnetic repulsion. Think about it: If all the roads had the appropriately polarised magnetic cores implanted in them, surely it would be possible to use the maglev system already implemented in mass-transit systems on a new and unprecedented scale. Is it too much to hope that this might be the first step towards reaching that lofty goal?

    In my book, it just figures that a loudspeaker company would be the first to start tinkering with this kind of tech. It's just the sort of thing that you can imagine occuring to some sound engineer after too many hours screwing around with large magnets.
  • "BOSE has found the happy medium by using electromagnetic motors, power amplifiers, & computer control algorithms"

    To be used in combustion engines exclusively since it'd likely take way to much power for use in a electric/hybrid vehical. But I guess it's the thought that counts, right?
  • "Between 1983 and 1987, the Lotus active suspension disappeared (from F1). According to Wright, "The system was being developed for road car use by Lotus Engineering." Many GGLC members may recall seeing videos of an active suspended Excel actually 'banking' into corners and running a slalom virtually flat." http://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/activesusp/activesus pn.htm [gglotus.org]
  • Powering a car suspension with a linear motor is impressive. That's quite a power to weight ratio for a linear motor. Usually, you're lucky to find one that can lift 10x its own weight. And they apparently have the servo drivers to power them sized for automotive applications.

    If they put those actuators into production, they'll have applications in robotics.

  • I said this to a friend before and he started laughing uncontrollably but I still think it's a good idea (or at the very least one that should be explored).

    Once we have active suspensions, I think it would be cool to actually tilt the car into the turn, much like a boat does. I mean, I wouldn't do it at the extreme angles of a boat but it would help push you into the seat instead of into the side bolsters and you wouldn't be fighting against the sideways force so much this.

    I think this would improve the d
  • by teneighty ( 671401 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @10:58PM (#10094239)

    IANCE (Chassis Engineer), but I have an interest in suspension systems as applied to motor racing. The suspension in the vehicle depicted as having a "conventional" system a very poor choice for comparision since it appears to be a medicore suspension system at best. A conventional suspension system with stiffer springs, anti-roll bars, and better dampers would perform drastically better under those types of conditions.

    The vehicle pictured appears to be a Lexus LS400, which of course is a luxury barge that sacrifices handling for comfort. I realise Bose is claiming you can have your cake and eat it too - but I'd like to see a more valid comparision before drawing any conclusions - for example, a comparision with a BMW 5-series

    This system looks like it would be quite heavy - and I bet you need extra batteries to provide adequate current too. Another question is how much heat the system generates, and how well it performs when hot (any electrical engineers care to comment on that?)

    • In the 'bump test track' video they compare it against both the base Lexus as well as with a Porsche, to give a sporty 'hard' suspension comparison. The base Lexus' suspension does seem awfully soft howver.

      I do wonder about the extra power requirements for them though. I would imagine that a stock battery would not be sufficient to drive four of those.
    • Technical aspects aside, I'm not quite sure the most comfortable ride is having a body that is completely still. I've ridden in a Mercedes SL500 (about $120k) and the system would constantly adjust the suspension to road conditions, for instance: negating the effects of inertia for sharp corners by tilting the cabin etc... I mean, while it is interesting to see a car body that appears to be completely seperate from the road, there seems to be a lot more to making a nice ride than simply this capability.
    • Well, motor racing is typically your litmus test.

      The fact that you don't see this on 6-figure rally cars or trophy trucks tells me that there are either:

      1) traditional spring/damper systems that work just as well
      2) serious reliability problems with this system.

      My guess is the former. WRC cars in particular would benefit substantially from this, they clearly have the budget to develop it, and at least one team would have taking the reliability risk by now if it outperformed traditional suspensions by a la
  • So how does it handle when the chip controlling all that fancy mag-lev suspension system stuff short circuits? Is there a safety mechanism, or do you just lose control and go careening off the road?
    • Re:fail-safe? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Tokerat ( 150341 )

      I would imagine that with the stringent standards put forth for safety guidelines in automobile manufacturing this day in age, there would have to be come kind of fail-safe before the system went into production for the public. Perhaps this prototype is without, but proving the principal at hand seems to have been the focus of the research. Step 2 is to create a practical implementation. (Step 3 will definitley be "Profit!!!")

      I imagine that the most obvious saftey solution is to build such a control system
  • The Chevy Corvette has had Electromagnetic selective ride control for awhile.. not sure how well it works but if the corvette has it i'm sure it's fairly good.. full text from the chevy website..

    Magnetic Selective Ride Control Magnetic Selective Ride Control is a real-time, cockpit-adjustable ride control system that adjusts shock absorber damping by means of electromagnetically charged particles contained within the shock fluid. When exposed to a magnetic charge, the fluid properties change, for
  • There's only minor technical details available so far, but the author of this piece describes seeing the system allow the test vehicle to jump over obstacles in its path!"

    I've always wanted this: a suspension that would see a speed bump and pull the wheel in automatically.

    P.S. To my speed-bump-happy city: screw you, and your hundreds of speed bumps, too.
  • from:
    http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=1_0&lang=e n &file=/en/1_0/1_10/1_10.jsp [bombardier.com]

    "Trains entering curves at high speeds are subject to centrifugal forces that can cause passenger discomfort. Typically, there are two ways to reduce centrifugal forces. The first is to improve the track curve radii or super elevation; this is a physical change to the tracks themselves. The second is the use of train tilting.

    JetTrain high-speed rail coaches are equipped with a patented advance tilting system that
  • by NeoSkandranon ( 515696 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:41PM (#10094418)
    I find myself watching those videos and thinking "My car doesn't appear to yaw and pitch that badly when i drive, and driving in rush hour interstate traffic i make alot of those maneuvers"

    Only explanation I can think is that the courses were driven alot faster than they appear, and then the video slowed down so you can see the effects more clearly.

    Anyone else perhaps more learned in this area care to comment?
    • I was thinking exactly the same thing.

      Either
      - they show both the movies for the original system and their system in slow motion, which would make their system even more impressing
      - they should their movie in real time, and the movie with the original system in slow motion, which would be cheating
      - they modified the original suspension, made it much softer, which would be cheating also.

      I've been told that suspensions in general are stiffer here in Europe than in America, even that suspensions on cars impor
  • The Bose Wave Suspension.

    Your car will drive like a concert hall.

    Geez, that just makes no sense whatsoever.

  • by multiplexo ( 27356 ) * on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:53PM (#10094467) Journal
    Sure, springs and shocks are brute stupid technology from the dawn of time, but they're also brute stupid reliable technlogy from the dawn of time.

  • Lotus developed a wide bandwidth fully active suspension based Esprit many years ago. It was described in a recent issue of Vehicle Dynamics magazine (Sometime between May and July). It was impractical for mass production because the system used too much energy. I'd guess the Bose system has the same limitation. Yet again, Bose shows their expertise with marketing.
  • by hot soldering iron ( 800102 ) on Friday August 27, 2004 @11:58PM (#10094478)
    Is caused by design.

    My brother-in-law is a young, but very well respected manufacturing engineer that graduated from one of the top 5 engineering schools in the US. He related to me that when he had to take the automotive engineering block, his design guidlines were to make it: modular, unrepairable, limited lifetime, and requiring an expensive machine tool infrastructure to build.

    This was to prevent shade-tree and small shop mechanics from repairing/replacing/rebuilding parts, and force them to purchase replacement parts. I ran into this in the electronics industry also - you sell the device once, but only you can repair it for the next 20 years.

    This sounds like one more unnecessary gimmick, like heated rearview mirrors, temp controlled seats, self-actuating shoulder belts, etc...
    When it works right, it will be very nice. When it doesn't, it will be very expensive. And let's not forget that Bose will have this entire system patented, and the control modules probably potted and rigged to wipe themselves if tampered with ("I'm sorry, your module is damaged, that will take 2 weeks and $700 to get a new one").

    Thank god that there isn't a software equivalent to electronics potting compound!
  • by fireman sam ( 662213 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @12:27AM (#10094583) Homepage Journal
    If the driver is having fun, (s)he will not feel a single bump reguardless of the condition of the road.

    Just my $0.00 worth.
  • Inefficient. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by adolf ( 21054 ) <flodadolf@gmail.com> on Saturday August 28, 2004 @12:28AM (#10094584) Journal
    According to TFA, the system uses about one third of the power that a typical car's air conditioner would.

    Considering that an automotive AC compressor consumes between 3 and 5 horsepower [google.com]. Doing the math, that equates to something around an extra 1 to 1.6 horsepower being required to operate this system.

    Which doesn't sound like much, until you do the rest of the math:

    1.6 horsepower = 82.84 amps at 14.4 volts. 82.84 amps is a fuckload of current to move around in a car for anything, let alone just to keep the car on the road.

    Wake me up when the thing doesn't require fatter cabling than the starter motor, and ceases to present a real safety hazard in the event of (increasingly likely) alternator failure.

    • Re:Inefficient. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Kiryat Malachi ( 177258 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @04:39AM (#10095191) Journal
      It sounds like a lot, but its not atypical. A power-steering module I worked with once drew about 90 amps peak. Our power distribution boxes regularly handle hundreds of amps of current.

      Motors like to suck current. Its just one of those things. Auto world has been dealing with it for years now, and we've pretty much figured out how to handle high current loads (hell, we switch those 90 amp currents on and off in a box the size of a small hardcover book.)
  • "Two Much Comfort"? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by uptownguy ( 215934 ) <UptownGuyEmail@gmail.com> on Saturday August 28, 2004 @05:00AM (#10095224)
    From the summary: Two much comfort, and the car rolls and pitches a lot

    I don't know what's more disturbing: The obvious spelling error in the article summary or that fact that, six hours later, not a single nerd has thought it important enough to mention...

    Is it possible that I am the only one who cringed when reading "two much"????
  • by Julian Morrison ( 5575 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @05:52AM (#10095319)
    When this gets to be in normal cars, it's going to end the day of those god-awful "traffic calming" measures, where they embed humps in the road. Damn, but I hate that lurch-lurch sensation and the slowing and starting those things cause. Good riddance to them.
  • by wobblie ( 191824 ) on Saturday August 28, 2004 @07:19AM (#10095460)
    but I would rather see cars become simpler, not more complicated (yeah when pigs fly). At the rate we're heading they're going to be utterly impossible to work on yourself, and will be disposable. This will be hideously expensive and very wasteful.

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