Microsoft Dropping Itanium Support For Clusters 265
upsidedown_duck writes "According to an article at TheStreet.com, Microsoft is opting not to support Itanium on its coming release of Windows Server 2003 Compute Cluster Edition. Instead, Microsoft will focus on AMD's offerings and Xeon."
Netcraft confirms it... (Score:4, Funny)
Aww, you know the rest.
Re:Netcraft confirms it... (Score:4, Funny)
BROTHER TORVALDS: It reads, 'Here may be found the last words of Craig Barrett of Intel. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the final Itanium chip in the chip fab of Aaauuuggghhh...'
AMD CEO: What?
BROTHER TORVALDS: 'The chip fab of Aaauuuggghhh...'
AMD CEO: What is that?
BROTHER TORVALDS: He must have died while carving it.
AMD CEO: Look if he was dying he wouldn't have bothered to carve 'Aaauuuggghhh' on the rock he would have just said it.
AMD VP: Maybe he was dictating?
AMD CEO: Oh shut up.
AMD CEO: Well does it say anything else?
BROTHER TORVALDS: No, just 'Aaaaauuuugggghhh'
[coders making groaning sounds]
STEVE JOBS: Do you think he could have meant 'Seaaaauuuuuggghhhhttle'?
AMD VP: Where's that?
STEVE JOBS: Canada I think.
WOZ: Isn't there a Palo Aauuugghhlto in California?
AMD CEO: No that's Alto.
[All coders saying, 'Aaauuughhhlllto']
STEVE JOBS: Whooooouuuuaaa!
WOZ: No it's 'Aaaaauuuugggghhhh' from the back of the throat.
STEVE JOBS: No I mean, 'Whoooouuuuaaa!' as in surprise and alarm.
WOZ: Oh you mean like, 'Auuuuhhhhh!'
STEVE JOBS: Yes that's it. Auuuuuhhhhhaaa!
WOZ: Auuuuhhhhhaaa!
BROTHER TORVALDS: It's the legendary black suited law firm of of Aaaaauuuugghhhh!
AMD CEO: Run Away! RUN AWAY!
WOZ: RUN AWAY!
Re:Itanic Itanium (Score:3, Interesting)
At least better features of the Alpha design were cribbed into PIII and PIV designs...
Itanium is circling the bowl (Score:3, Insightful)
Sun might bring solaris to it, but... why?
IA64 is a really cool chip (no pun intended) and I hate to see it flounder like this, but with PPC, x86, and SPARC all stepping up with new R&D.... Who needs itainium?
(oh and the nasa cluster based on it is neato)
Wrong... (Score:5, Informative)
Siemens and Bull (both major vendors in Europe), Dell, and IBM, and probably a lot more that I'm forgetting support ia64.
Actually pretty much every hardware vendor (that's traditionally worked with Intel CPUs) supports ia64 in one way or another.
But this article isn't a surprise. ia64 is just presently a pretty crappy CPU for clustered computing because it's very hot, sucks a lot of power and very expensive. When building a large cluster you naturally have to balance heat, energy and cost against performance much more than you do with most setups.
Re:Wrong... (Score:3, Informative)
FWIW, a Xeon uses slightly more power than an Itanium chip, and yes the Itaniums are very expensive. However, I believe that both of these are going to change. The Itanium already has a low power model at 1GHz, and Intel is looking at upping the speed of these low power offerings. And they better start reducing their prices.
And being that
Re:Wrong... (Score:4, Informative)
However Itanium is good for single image NUMA architectures. They can do things very well that clusters are very crappy at. And Clusters can do lots of stuff cheaper and faster then those big NUMA stuff comes from.
Itanium is being pushed increasingly into higher end computers. You know why Itanium is important?
Power970 cpu limit: 2-4 cpus
Opteron cpu limit: 8 cpus
Itanium cpu limit: 512 cpus.
SGI is being very successfull with it's 512 itanium machines running Linux.
That's 512 cpus with ONE OS running a single Linux 2.6 kernel. (series 2.4 kernels didn't scale well past 4 cpus, and hit a brick wall in performance at 16 cpus. In one revision from 2.4 to 2.6 turned linux into a viable supercomputer-level peice of software BTW)
For example that 2nd ranked "top500" computer is a 20 machine Beowolf style cluster. Each machine has 512 cpus.
SGI was able to build a 10,160cpu cluster in 4 months.
Hell when they started construction in less then 2 weeks they were running space shuttle simulations on it.
That's AS it was being built.
You can't do that with power970's. You can't do that with Opterons. Those Itaniums are not going anywere, and comparing them to Opterons and Power970's is a mistake. These proccessors are in completely different leages.
The Opteron and Power970 just doesn't compete with them. And remember that even though clusters are very impressive but are not suitable for many tasks.
It competes with the Sun Sparcs and IBM Power architectures. Currently IBM is dominating...
And to say that the cpu that runs the #2 ranked cluster (and completely dominates the highest ranked Power970 or x86 machine) is a crapy clusting cpu is just plain ignorant.
Personally I would think it's more of a indication of Microsoft's inability or lack of desire to support operating systems that run at this level. Windows always has and continues to be only a mid to low end operating system.
Re:Wrong... (Score:5, Interesting)
SGI is being very successfull with it's 512 itanium machines running Linux.
Note that SGI are doing this with very very special hardware. IIRC each CPU brick in an Origin has 4 itanics. All these bricks are then interconnected with very very special CPU interconnect routers.
That these machines go to 512 CPUs has *nothing* to do with the CPUs being Itanic, it's all down to the ccNUMA interconnect technology (which SGI initially acquired from Cray). If you need further convincing of this, note that the Origin 3k architecture SGIs machines have essentially the same architecture, but use MIPS CPUs. This architecture could be applied to Opteron too, and probably with less effort, as Opteron natively supports ccNUMA and comes with CPU networking built-in.
Re:Wrong... (Score:3, Interesting)
Someone else pointed out the scaling numbers. Opteron scales better than 8 CPUs. 8CPUs is what you can do without glue chipsets, which is pretty darned great.
Newisys have a chipset that extends the CC and addressing of Opterons so that you can put upto 32 in a system.
When dual opterons are available,
Re:Wrong... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm afraid you are quite incorrect.
A system builder is not limited by the processor architecture in how many processors can be added to a single system. If a company were willing to throw enough money at it, you could have a 32-way i386. It would be rather inefficient, as the i386 is not designed to make SMP systems efficient a
Re:Wrong... (Score:3, Informative)
Q1 this year, IBM sold 2 Itanium boxes. Yup, 2. Up to 200 by second quarter. IBM sells that many Power machines in about 6 hours. Dell shipped fewer than IBM; Bull shipped 80 but made more money than Dell ($5m versus $4m) Only HP, with about 80% of the ia64 market, shipped more Itaniums than Opterons. Even with Opterons selling for roughly 10% the cost of Itaniums, ia64 barely beat out Opteron in profits, and hasn't a prayer in Q3 and Q4.
The ENTIRE ia64 market for the first half o
Re:Itanium is circling the bowl (Score:2)
Sun seems Very happy with the AMD partnership as it is. http://www.sun.com/amd/ [sun.com]
So I do not see this likely.
Re:Itanium is circling the bowl (Score:2)
The 'Edsel' of processors (Score:2)
Itanium is Linux bound (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Itanium is Linux bound (Score:5, Insightful)
SGI are pretty much commited to moving everyone to Itanic, they are only selling MIPS stuff to people who REALLY REALLY want backward compatability. MIPS chips are not going to get much faster, they are not going to bring out a proper new generation, most of the improvements are going to be from shrinking the gates on the chips.
Making a chip costs a stupidly big amount of money, and MIPS does not have the volume to justify it.
If Itanic sinks (really sorry) then SGI will eventually be bought up by IBM for their shared memory tech, and customer roladex.
SGI have bet the company on Itanic
Re:Itanium is Linux bound (Score:4, Interesting)
Why?
Because their core technology seems to be relatively independent of the CPU. The Altix line really just builds on the Origin line. It's the connections between machines (NUMAflex), and their understanding of high-performance computing in general, that will keep them afloat.
What's more interesting is, what would they move to iff IA64 would be discontinued (which is still very unlikely, but let's assume it does)? AMD64 is an option, Cray are showing it works well with their RedStorm machines. Or perhaps SGI can find an ally in IBM with their POWER chips. The latter is IMO more likely because SGI is a firm believer in RISC, and when IA64 is dead, POWER is the last in the line of RISC chips with competitive performance. Or perhaps they can revive their MIPS based lines.
What's actually more interesting is, what is HP going to do when more vendors move away from IA64 and they risk ending up being the only ones selling them???
Re:Itanium is Linux bound (Score:2)
The next generation of Xeon and Itanic will have compatible buses according to the current roadmaps, and SGI would haev much less reengineering to do than if they wanted to use Opteron.
SGI's current plans are far more interesting then just coping with CPU supply changes though - they want to add vector processors and FPGAs into the mix.
In the meantime Altix kicks butt.
Re:Itanium is Linux bound (Score:2)
Re:Itanium is Linux bound (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Itanium is Linux bound (Score:2)
wrong technology more than once. (Don't
get me wrong -- SGI has been a company of
high quality servers and workstations, with
inovative technology from brilliant staff.)
They have had a tendency to buy other company's
at a very high price, and sell them at the
bottom of the market. SGI sold off MIPS a
long time ago, sadly, as well as Cray Research.
Their foray into WinNT workstations was a total
disaster, not due to a lack of superiority but
because of not knowing the marke
The correct response: So what? (Score:5, Interesting)
So Intel now gets a boost to its Xeon line of chips which are leading the high-performance server market percentage-wise. With this, Intel can put more effort into ramping Xeon production and subsequently driving the prices down there, and likewise continue producing the superfast Itaniums in servers running Linux or some other proprietary supercomputer operating system.
The demand for supercomputers is low. It will always be low. As technology progresses, the normal users like us get to reap the rewards of this high technology and eventually those supercomputers will be available to us on a single board. The supercomputers of that future will be supersupercomputers and the demand will still be small.
So let the Itanium fit its niche in the super-highend market. Let the Xeons fill in the normal server market. And let Microsoft stay out of the supercomputer market where it simply doesn't fit.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:2, Interesting)
Despite all of this i agree wiht you..MS doesnt belong in the supercomputer market. But i doubt intel spent billions developing t
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
itanium has not delivered on a single design goal since its inception. intel went full steam ahead on itanium, placing bets on a number of key technologies to pan out in order to sustain itanium development -- all of which never happened.
so now intel is stuck with an incomplete chip with projected market share shrinking, support drying up, and partners abandoning ship.
intel continues to sink huge sums of money into itanium on an incredibly tiny niche market, which would be better spent investing on developing technology for their core markets. right now amd is eating them for lunch with amd64.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:2)
Indeed, one of the hardest things in business planning is the axiom "Never count the sunken cost" since prestige seems to allways come in the way.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:2)
Don't you mean "itanic is sinking into ..."? Oh, never mind.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
And which of the world's leading microprocessor companies do you run or even work for?
How do you explain the Itanium failing so badly in its design goals that it is #1 in memory bandwidth [virginia.edu]? How do you explain their failure when creating 2 of the top 5 [top500.org] computers in the wo
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:2)
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:2)
Someone needs to ammend Godwin's law to include "You must work for them" rebuttal.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:4, Informative)
Not their high-end servers.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
[article type="doomed"]
-- FOO decides not to support BAR, which they never really did in the first place...
-- Slashdot immediately cries in full tongue, "BAR is dying!!"
[/article]
There! All such future stories are now dupes.
Re:The correct response: So what? (Score:2)
That might not make in in the top 500 of super computers:
last 500 super computers [top500.org]
Most computer in the bottom of the top 500 heave at least 256 processors.
MS themself claim that every factor 2 gives it's own set of problems.
However selling 128 licenses of windows 2003 server is interesting.....
Future (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Future (Score:5, Interesting)
No it wasn't. Intel developed to itanic as a "post-RISC" design to crush all the 64-bir RISC processors, and to take over the workstation and server market. It was designed to be _the_ volume 64-bit processor with spectacular performance and low price due to economies of scale.
Those of us with a passing interest in microprocessors knew it was a turkey.
The only thing itanic has going for it is high SPEC FP scores. On everything else it is either poor or mediocre. It is hot, power-hungry, expensive, have virtually no software support, no developer community etc.
If you look closely at the "benchmark" comparisons that HP and intel put out for public consumption, you will see they usually only compare with very old models from competitors. Also notice the kind of workloads they compare and the configuration of the machines.
SGI recently might have given NASA a free itanic supercomputer if the rumours are true, accounting for a whole 10% of this years itanic shipments. That sounds like a processor in trouble.
Itanic was a solution looking for a problem. It was based on out-dated ideas of processr design, it was late, over-engineered and basically a damp squib for all but the handful of people who can afford it for numbercrunching. This is a far cry from the de-facto 64-bit, mass-market, low-cost processor with world domination that intel intended for it to be.
Re:Future (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to second that. My feeling on it is when they had a meeting with a blank piece of paper to design this chip they only invited hardware people. All the tough stuff has been moved into software.
I think the lack of out of order execution really hirts them. If you don't do an amazing job with the compiler then the processor moves like a slug. In the supercomputer centre I used to use they "upgraded" their 512 processor MIPS machine by adding a 400 processor (or so) Itanic box. For a lot of things without extra optimization of the source code (i.e. just compìling the thing, assuming you could get it to compile, but that is another story) the Itaniums were SLOWER than the 3 year old MIPS processors. It takes a lot of tweaking to get anything like peak performance
There are 3 FPU pipleines that you have to fill at compile time to get maximum performace out of the thing. Identifying THREE parallel instructions at compile time, ALL THE TIME, is damn hard, and normally the compilers fail. Hence slow.
It is just too hard to get anything like the theoretical peak performance out of the thing for stuff other than benchmarks.
Re:Future (Score:2)
Not in the supercomputer world. Jobs where you really need high processing power have already been reduced to highly parallelizable algorithms. This trend started in the 1930's and 1940's, when "parallel" meant a room full of people, each with a mechanical adding machine.
People sometimes feel surprised when confronted with the fact that "supercomputers" existed in the 1940's, but they did.
Re:Future (Score:2)
Hmm.. they had alot of help from the alpha design they bought.. however, they managed to cripple it beyond recognition....
Re:Future (Score:3, Informative)
> design they bought.. however, they managed to
> cripple it beyond recognition....
The Itanium and its grandparents at HP were already in production by the time HP bought Compaq (which had previously bought DEC, the creator of the Alpha). HP did reassign many Alpha engineers to Itanium work, but that was widely believed to be a move to no-compete-prevent them from going to Fujitsu and continuing their work on Alpha.
sPh
Re:Future (Score:3, Interesting)
Identifying THREE parallel instructions at compile time, ALL THE TIME, is damn hard, and normally the compilers fail. Hence slow.
Actually, one of my MS students and I did some work, later extended in a MS thesis [passagen.se] by Svante Arvedahl, that showed that it is pretty straightforward to produce decently-scheduled code for the IA-64 on a JIT basis using combinatorial search techniques and related heuristics. The cool part about this is that you can then use HotSpot(TM)-type techniques to get your instruction-le
and specfp was perhaps hand tuned (Score:2)
The irony is that when we get a mass market 64 bit
processor the first thing some of us will do is
to make a good emulator for the old 36 bit cpu's
(grins)
Anti per-core-licensing and pro per-core-benchmark (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Future (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that should read "If I were AMD or Intel, I'd try to buy (or merge) with Microsoft..." My point is that AMD or Intel would like to dominate their market completely. Microsoft already does that.
Re:Future (Score:2)
Intel always claims that Superchip X is built for a niche market - "servers and workstations only" - then crushes the competition by shipping 50,000,000 units to Dell for PCs.
That this strategy didn't work for the Itanium is bad news for Intel.
sPh
Makes economic sense (Score:4, Interesting)
Seems like the Wintel alliance isn't so strong these days. Microsoft opting for IBM's PPC processor for XBox 2 is another example of how they're looking what hardware is best for the job, instead of what their traditional partners can offer.
Re:Makes economic sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Hang on, you are joking, right?
PPro has probably been Intel's best chip architecture to date. The initial P6 had bad 16bit performance, which made it a bad choice for consumers are that time, but it was very competitive in normal 32bit mode, idea for NT, Linux and other PC Unixen. The 2nd iteration of the P6 architecture fixed the 16bit issue and was enormously successful. The latest iteration of that arch (Pentium-M) is quietly outperforming the architecture designed to replace it, the P4, at nearly half the clock speed and far less power usage. Indeed, it looks like Intel will be going *back* to the P6 family in future as its 'frontline' PC architecture.
So you must be joking.
Re:Makes economic sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry, wrong on the 16bit issue. The 2nd iteration of the P6 architecture, aka Pentium III, still sucked with 16 bit software. It was saved by the introduction of 32bit software and a (mostly) 32 bit OS.
I remember a software project I was working on in 1998, where we still used Delphi 1 (16bit) because the customer still had a Win3.11 environment.
When we ran that program side-by-side on a Pentium MMX with 200MHz and a Pentium III with 450 MHz, the old Pentium MMX was roughly twice as fast.
Re:Makes economic sense (Score:2)
Re:Makes economic sense (Score:3, Interesting)
The PPro may have been over-hyped, but it _was_ a seriously good chip. In fact, it heralded the best line of CPUs Intel ever produced, the PII/PIII/PM line. They're currently in the process of ditching the Pentium 4 to go _back_ to the PM, which is at heart a PPro. The PPro also spawned the Xeon line, until Intel moved it across to Pentium 4 a while ago. The PIII Xeon was a _mightly_ fine chip.
Overall
Re:Makes economic sense (Score:3, Interesting)
Subsequent processors based on the core have been better. But going from a 750Mhz PIII to a 900Mhz Athlon was an incredible leap in performance, so I'd argue that AMD have forced Intel to buck up their ideas.
Some benchmarks (Score:2)
As you can see, PPro improved FPU performance quite a bit but integer wasn't improved that much.
2.1 vs 2.8 for integer. Of course the PPro could be used in dual CPU arrangements, but only with NT.
Interesting to see how far ahead and better the PowerPC processor was at that point.
Re:Makes economic sense (Score:2)
Windows Supercomputer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:4, Interesting)
I do not currently see any special reason for anyone to run that on the highend level, as all those things are so specialised anyway, so you can get the right staff.
But the fact is, many of the aplications that low-end supercomputing could be used for are quite "common" in many enviroments. This coupled with the fact that extremly many companies have very entrenched Microsoft-only IT-cultures, makes me think there will be quite many of "supercomputers" running windows.
Please note the use Supercomputer in quotes, as most of these systems are really not going to be supercomputers, more something like "mini-supers".
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
If you're right, it's a shocking indictment of CS departments. If everything is "windows based", then it's not education, it's vocational training.
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:5, Funny)
i don't know about you guys, but the first thing i look for in a supercomputer is an easy to use graphical user interface. who wants to spend all that time typing archaic commands into their supercomputer's commandline? i just put NumberCrunch.exe on my desktop, and doubleclick it when i'm ready to launch. and all of my computations are stored on my shared folder, so that the other nodes can see what i've done and add their results. and while my program is running in the background i can also browse the web or play a little doom 3 (you would not believe the frame rates i get). but remember, turn off your screensavers if you want your supercomputer to reach its full power, because that opengl flying windows thing takes up alot of cpu time.
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Not that this should be an issue. If someone is funny, they usually also come up with the occasional insightful/interesting/informative post. So, IMHO, it doesn't really matter that much.
Honestly, if you really feel the need to make sure a funny poster's comment deserves karma, I think the better alternative to modding funny "insightful" would be to mod them "underrated".
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Windows Supercomputer? (Score:3, Interesting)
However, Microsoft isn't targeting techies. They're not going after linux users for sure. They know that their solutions are a total flop where scaling is concerned, and it appears that they're conceding the mid- and high-end markets to the *nix vendors. MS is going after the small ones. Don't know anyting about Linux
dammit (Score:3, Funny)
Dammit, I can't blame MS for this move.
As much as we all like MS-bashing, this action does not seem evil.
Or, is it? (Please?)
Has anybody just bought a big Itanium-cluster to run Windows Server 2003 Compute Cluster Edition on it?
BTW, is the name really "Windows Server 2003 Compute Cluster Edition"? Sounds terrible...
Re:dammit (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, I am sure the developers wanted to call it Windows Server 2003 CCF (Complete Cluster F***) but the marketing people stepped in... Changing the name to Windows Server 2003 CCE
Re:dammit (Score:2)
Re:dammit (Score:2, Insightful)
Why? To keep Intel sweet when Itanium support is dropped, by giving Intel time to get an amd64 competitor into the market?
Re:dammit (Score:2)
> Compute Cluster Edition"? Sounds terrible...
I agree.. they should call it Windows Server 2005 Compute Cluster Edition. Much better. Who wants to run a 2003 OS??
The future of itanium? (Score:3, Informative)
This is actually an exciting opertunity for AMD since they can increase their margin in the sever and business arena where the big money is. They should seize this opportunity and start pushing their server lines.
Itanic (Score:3, Funny)
But anyway, this is news how? I wasn't aware that there were enough Itanics around to MAKE into a cluster
Re:Itanic (Score:2)
oh.. if they put together ALL the ithaniums in the world it would enough make a cluster..
Linus was onto something... (Score:5, Interesting)
Linus was right [theinquirer.net], then, I guess...
The Limit of closed source developpement (Score:5, Interesting)
Compagnies have to concentrate their (limited) efforts on a few software/platform combinations. They cannot developpe a version for every CPU existing on this planet.
Microsoft has already a lot of work to do (Longhorn, 64bits XP, XP reloader, still supporting deprecated Win98, developing specials like WinCE, WinMedia, etc...) so they just cannot afford supporting more than 2 CPU types.
In open source, it's the opposite. Because the source is Open, even if the main developper can only target 1 CPU type, everyone is free to try to recompile/port the code to another architecture.
Just have a look at the impressive number of architectures supported by Linux (including weird platforms like cellphones, gaming console [DreamCast/XBOX/GameCube] ).
Maybe this trends will change if Microsoft finds a way to use "write once run everywhere" vm like
Re:The Limit of closed source developpement (Score:2)
Re:The Limit of closed source developpement (Score:2)
Like Linux, you mean?
I'll take a *crappy* multi-platform OS like Linux over a specialized chip-specific OS like Windows ANY DAY!
No, seriously, I dumped Windows a year ago and I run Linux now, and although it has been more effort, I love it.
Then again, I was a Windows SDK programmer once
AMD stock (Score:4, Interesting)
AMD 2 year chart [google.com].
I bought a little bit back when the Athlon 64 was announced. Trading volume has been up since. Opteron announcement didn't seem to make much of an impression on the market.
Post election, the markets been up overall.
Do you think we'll see a runup to $30 over the next couple of days?
Now I'm feeling like I should have bought a bit more AMD but historically I've been bitten on almost every investment decision based on the techniclal merits of the product.
WHat's the feeling out there in
Whay about AMD taking on $600,000,000 debt the other day and adding a guy from Radio Shack (see latest SEC filing).
My favorite way of looking at stocks (useless for decisions as I still don't grok it) is the correlation between the analyst recommendations and price/volume.
What sort of analysis do these guys do? Ouija board?
BUT wait. What I really want to know is how you
Re:AMD stock (Score:2)
I'm an idiot who frequently talks out of his own ass.
If I had any money I would have bought AMD when it was at $5. But I still thinks it's a very good buy right now too. In a recent article at
Add to that tidbit the fact that AMD just partnered with ANOTHER foundry, (when their existing one isn't even running ne
Re:AMD stock (Score:2)
Re:AMD stock (Score:2)
Re:AMD stock (Score:2)
Using these two criteria is a strategy straight from the boom days. Please pay more attention to price/earnings. This is a (vague) measure of how long in years at the current price to recoup that price just in net earnings (not dividends). So AMD is currently just over 40. By next year, it is expected to go down to just under 30 as conditions im
Re:AMD stock (Score:2)
Re:AMD stock (Score:2)
See also this ref (bit old, 1hr+long but fun) (Score:3, Interesting)
(the link to the video is at the end).
I think we all know EPIC is dead. So is Moore's law.
Get used to learning how to parallelize (??) your
program.
Itanic I knew it not at all. Lot's of 64 bit CPU's out there means we can (finally) write nice emulators for the 36 bit ones (grins)
Any next generation chip left? (Score:2, Insightful)
Too bad HP killed off the Alpha architecture in favor of Itanium. Maybe they could restart it...
sPh
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Any next generation chip left? (Score:2)
Yes: x86-64 at least. Seriously: what's wrong with x86? And x86-64?
Alpha? I though you wanted "next generation" chips, not chips from yesteryear.
Re:Any next generation chip left? (Score:2)
> chips, not chips from yesteryear.
The Alpha architecture was 2 to 3 generations ahead of its competitors when it was released. Lack of volume hindered development of its ultimate potential. I suspect that from a standpoint of design philosophy it is still ahead of anything else on the market (ducks while Power advocates throw parts from scrapped PC-RTs).
You might want to read up on Alpha a bit.
sPh
Re:Any next generation chip left? (Score:2)
Crap (Score:3, Funny)
Pfff!!!
Oh great , the x86 arch. wheezes on a bit longer (Score:2)
Re:Oh great , the x86 arch. wheezes on a bit longe (Score:5, Insightful)
x86 has come a long way over the years. We now have a multitude of streaming SIMD instructions and the biggest complaint of x86, the lack of GPRs, has been remedied by AMD in x86-64. It's cheap, relatively easy to code for and is not going away any time soon.
And you say x86 is power hungry? What does that make Itanic?
Re:Oh great , the x86 arch. wheezes on a bit longe (Score:2)
BFD. A polished turd with a pretty bow is still a turd. The majority of high end non-intel server CPUs manage the equivalent MIPS at less Mhz and producing less heat. x86 is the Model-T of the 32 bit world that if it wasn't for backwards compat would have been put out to grass years ago.
Re:Oh great , the x86 arch. wheezes on a bit longe (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Oh great , the x86 arch. wheezes on a bit longe (Score:3, Informative)
Here's what they've tried so far:
iAPX432: arguably the CISC of CISCs. Out-VAXED the VAX, the only instruction set more complex was one of the Japanese TRON designs.
i960: this one had a chance, it was a fairly conventional RISC with good performance, but it was too early. Intel was still enamored with the x86 architecture, and it got stripped of its MMU and shunted into embedded systems le
Alpha's not dead !... (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow! Two things nobody needs in one sentence! (Score:2, Funny)
It's like saying "Bum Rashes announce they won't support haemmorhoids"...
Oops (Score:2, Funny)
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Re:Bad news for Intel (Score:2)