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The Internet Media Music Software

Former AOLers Bet on Private P2P App 169

Posted by michael from the cuecat dept.
buhatkj writes "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting. Namely, a P2P/instant messaging/groupware tool called Grouper. Sounds to me a bit like the GAIM plugin suggested by downhill battle..."
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Former AOLers Bet on Private P2P App More

Former AOLers Bet on Private P2P App

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  • Too late in the game... (Score:3, Informative)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:01PM (#10870824)
    "Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group," Felser said in an interview with eWEEK.com. Each group becomes an encrypted peer-to-peer network that allows one-click access to browse and download files.

    The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

    Running Grouper through university networks can save Internet bandwidth costs because file transfers are done between machines on the local network (unlike other P2P networks).

    Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

    However, Felser said Grouper's emphasis on being a small, private, encrypted network minimizes the risk. "We're a heck of a lot safer to the business because we target very small groups of people who already know and trust each other. And we have a very firm anti-spyware policy. We'll never add spyware or adware of any kind."

    However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

    P2P is fine with the free alternatives. I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.
    • "there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works."
      • "there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works."

        Let's see the entire quote as that isn't fully correct:

        Currently in beta, Grouper limits private networks to 30 members. While file sharing is a key feature in the application, there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works.

        By limiting music sharing to streams in small groups, Felser said
        • That does sound contradictory.

          I also doubt that keeping performances "private" would hold up as a legitimate defense.

          • Re:Too late in the game... (Score:5, Interesting)

            by somethinghollow ( 530478 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:36PM (#10871127) Homepage Journal
            It makes perfect sense. You STREAM it, not download it. You can't copy it to your computer and save it there from within the program. You can merely stream the audio, which is not the same as saving it to your hdd.

            As far as the "private" performance, it should hold up in that only your invited/allowed "friends" (at this point up to 30) can listen to any given song at any given time. It's not offered to the general public. This would be like me having some friends over and playing music from my personal MP3 library. It's not a public performance because only my friends are listening to it, and they are only there because I invited them to the private gathering.

            But the tricksy lawyerses will probably take away the precious anyway they like because they hates the precious and would rather see us dead than have it.
            • Oh, you STREAM it. So things like StreamRipper will somehow become impossible?!
              Earth to Harry Potter...

              By limiting music sharing to streams in small groups, Felser said Grouper simply enables "private performances," which is protected by U.S. Copyright Law.

              "We're not a public file-sharing network. What we offer is a way to connect to hard drives within a group in a safe, encrypted environment."

              I will believe that this doubletalk will fly with the RIAA's and MPAA's lawyers when I see gas stations star

          • Re:Too late in the game... (Score:4, Informative)

            by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:48PM (#10871218)
            Just check their forums.

            It will NOT share files with MP3 or WMA extensions. Who knows that filetypes they'll decide to block next.

            If they get rid of those restrictions (and the 30 person maximum) I'll bite. Until then, it's simple an interesting bit of software that I'll pass on.

            N.

            • Re:Too late in the game... (Score:5, Interesting)

              by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:59PM (#10871277)
              Just another thought (as this is similar to an application that I brainstormed with a friend a couple years back):

              It would be great to have a "trickle-sync" directory designation, so you could automatically share amongst group members. It would work like this:

              One person would drop files into a directory designated as "trickle-sync", and it would be slowly passed-along to everyone else in the group automatically without any prompting (assuming they enabled that feature on their machines). Rather than using full available bandwidth, it might be set to, say, a 5kb/sec maximum or something (or dynamically adjust the bandwidth depending on what else is happening on the network at the time).

              The idea being that if you found a new song, program, video file etc. that you think other people in your group might be interested in, you'd just drop it in that folder and eventually everyone else would get it automatically and save them the trouble of having to go look for it and download it.

              The trickle-sync folder could have a maximum size limit on it, so if new files arrived and the folder was over-size, it would delete the oldest files first to make room for the new stuff.

              N.
              • Yeah, we're definitely considering adding more push-like capabilities in the future to preemptively distribute content around the network.
                • sorry you geniuses, but WASTE [sourceforge.net] has been around for a while now and more than serves such purpose. This sounds like a restricted hybrid between WASTE and VideoLAN [videolan.org]...

                  DING! next 'marketable product service' please.

                  stop wasting our f-cking time.

                  Cheers.
              • I don't want you forcing your crappy taste in music onto my hard drive.

                What's to keep somebody from putting "n3kk3dfoto.jpg.exe" in the push folder?
              • You mean like Foldershare [foldershare.com]?

                Yes, yes, they charge for features like filediff support, but the free version still works pretty well.

              • "It would be great to have a "trickle-sync" directory designation, so you could automatically share amongst group members. It would work like this: One person would drop files into a directory designated as "trickle-sync", and it would be slowly passed-along to everyone else in the group automatically without any prompting (assuming they enabled that feature on their machines). Rather than using full available bandwidth, it might be set to, say, a 5kb/sec maximum or something (or dynamically adjust the band
              • BackWeb [backweb.com] sold a background network data transfer technology that was respectful of BOTH your modem/DSL connection and your WAN connection (if you had a private WAN )

                It really worked. You could transfer hundreds of megabytes over slow, unreliable connections - so long as you didn't really mind how long it took to transfer. Hours... Days... Weeks...

                The protocol was highly optimized. Everything was encrypted. They used differential downloading technology (similar to that used in revision control systems)

            • .Rar .zip .uha for a start

            • It will NOT share files with MP3 or WMA extensions. Who knows that filetypes they'll decide to block next.

              That's stupid. One thing that I have found my computer extrememly useful for is voice dictation. I'm currently using the Olympus proprietary ".dss" format, but I'm considering switching to an iPod with a voice recorder, because you're not stuck with the proprietary codec. If you use a really low bitrate, you can store an incredible amount of audio on your hard drive. Not being able to share audio f

        • grouper doesn't allow you to download copies of audio files from your friends' machines, but it does allow you to build playlists of, and listen to music that they're sharing. we re-encode the audio on the fly on the source machine to a bitrate & format more conducive to streaming.
    • I think its biggest weakness is that, unlike other P2P applications, this one can't take advantage of network effects to gain ubiquity due to the small, private, nature of the networks.
    • Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

      Most universities couldn't give a f*ck as long as it doesn't take up too much bandwidth. And with something like this most of your peers will probably be other students on the same campus, bringing down the BW cost to the uni since the traffic would mostly be internal.
      • Actually, the university I go to counts internal traffic against your bandwidth quota.

        Thank god CD-RW and DVD-RW are easily available these days. And wireless lan helps alot with your neighbors too.
    • I disagree, this is exactly the kind of thing my friends and I were looking for. P2P networks are a pain in the ass because you have to share everything with everyone... and let's be honest, 90% of the file listings for music out there these days seem like fake crap the RIAA is listing. I want to share music, movies, pictures, and maybe even software with friends and family... and chat while we're at it over an encrypted network. But alas, this won't work. It only supports Windows XP and 2000.. they need

    • Never too late to be legal and change bad laws. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by twitter ( 104583 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:30PM (#10871081) Homepage Journal
      The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it. ... Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

      Ah, but sharing through a regular p2p or http server is essentially a republication and a direct copyright violation as copyright laws are written. Sharing files with your friends may not be and should not be any more than sharing a book or tape is. Five or six coppies does not make a republication.

      The copyright warriors may claim otherwise, but they are clearly in the wrong and will be seen as the extremists that they are on this one. The current wave of lawsuits are that strip 12 year olds and grandparents out of their life savings are bad, but the asswipes can say, "they made tens of thousands thousands of coppies and cost us lots of money." Imagine how that would sound if it were, "he gave his mom a copy of his favorite song and derived us of income! We demand compensation!" The jerks already have egg on their face for placing huge burdens on people who did not know better, have nothing or did not even know what was going on in their house. This, we can hope, will finally kill them off and let the rest of us do what we want to do, share things we enjoy with our friends and family.

      However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

      Fuck them. I already share things with myself and friends via Openssh. What I have password protected on my machines is none of their business. Those things I created and own are shared by a http server on the same machine and anyone, including the RIAA is welcome to it.

      I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

      Ha! My windoze using peers would love to do the things I do with Konqueror. You know, drag and drop encrypted file transfer so that I can get at, use and edit my stuff from anywhere in the world. This is a step in that direction for those too timid to leave winblows. Such thoughts populate the reviews the Grouper people are displaying from such mainstream sources as PCMagazine and the Wall Street Journal. I'd rather these people stepped up to free software, but this kind of program is going to take off big time.

      When that happens, it will change the way people think of publication in general. That will spell the end for the copyright warriors.

    • "Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group,"

      So, it's an FTP server?

      That's been done...

      • That's been done...

        Sure, but you could say the same thing about the Web. Just because technology exists it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, easiest way to do what it does.

        Take your example:

        • How many people do you know that can set up an FTP server, administer accounts, handle invitations, etc... securely, automatically, through a firewall?
        • How many people do you know that can't?
        • Can you perform searches on an FTP server?
        • Can you stream audio files from an FTP server reliably?
        • Can you get dynamic
    • The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.


      And, just for the record, Gnutella has always supported semi-private networks. That was part of the problem early on. It doesn't have password authentication, but you aren't obliged to sign onto the main network.

    • The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      Hate to break it to you but there's already private networks dealing in the latest files/video/audio that are secure mainly because they are private. You never hear about them but I'm sure they can have all the software they want. All it takes is one guy, let's call him a "courier" for a purely hypothetical example, to tap in
      • I may be mistaken, but I get the impression you think if your recieving part of a file from someone on a slower connection that somehow blocks out ny connections from someone faster. While some p2p apps might limit the number of clients your connected to at once, I dought any limit you to just one or two, and some are configurable.
        Dialup sources don't reduce YOUR bandwith any at all, each connection has a tiny overhead, but it's not often time dependant but rather amount of data dependant. So dialup so
        • Gak sorry for replying to myself, but I choped a sentance up thier before the idea was complete and totaly scrambled the meaning.
          I said"So dialup sources shouldn't have any significant effect on your download speed unless there are a LOT of them." wich is completely screwed up.
          What I meant is the that overhead from dialup sources shouldn't effect download speeds much unless there are a LOT of them, but then you'll be getting the data itself faster (wich is one of the intended strengths of p2p) and w

    • "Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group," Felser said in an interview with eWEEK.com. Each group becomes an encrypted peer-to-peer network that allows one-click access to browse and download files.

      The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      Not that I RTFA, but you never used ho

    • I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

      Actually, it cuts it quite well. I belong to 2 separate and distinct groups, one music only, one everything, both about 20 members strong. Granted, you can't find everything (although the second group is practically 0-day), but it's rare now that I have to fire up Bearshare to get something I really want.

  • The just announced the name: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Shut the fuck up! ( 572058 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:01PM (#10870825)
    OMGWTFLOL.exe

  • Squeeze the Charmin. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:02PM (#10870836)
    "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting. Namely, a P2P/instant messaging/groupware tool called Grouper. "

    Damn! I read that as Groper. Reach out. Reach out, and grope someone today.

  • login sound (Score:5, Funny)

    by Post It Now ( 831323 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:04PM (#10870856)
    "You've got jail!"

  • like clevercactus? (Score:5, Informative)

    by idonotexist ( 450877 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:04PM (#10870858)
    Not sure who was first, but clevercactus [clevercactus.com] has had the same type of offering for awhile.

  • Groovy (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The screenshots and described functionality look tremendously like the original free Groove software.

  • New name, same product? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Raxxon ( 6291 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:08PM (#10870886)
    Wouldn't this be a cleaned up and repackaged version of WASTE?
    • WASTE was created by the nullsoft folks. These AOLers were aquired in the sale of Spinner.com to AOL.
      • My understanding was the the NullSoft guys developed it but that it was in use in other areas of AOL giving pretty much anyone who wanted access to it, access... It seems to do a good number of things that WASTE did...

    • Re:New name, same product? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yes, it's a blatant rip-off of Justin Frankel's WASTE.
      http://waste.sf.net/ [sf.net]

      Moreover, the Grouper CEO has the temerity claim to its his original idea:

      "The idea for Grouper was born out of personal frustration after Josh came back from Burning Man with loads of photos and video clips taken with his digital camera." http://www.grouper.com/about/presskit.htm [grouper.com]

      This doesn't much surpise me as I have experience working with these Grouper people. I'd never work with them again.
      • Yeah dude. Next time, try to deliver the pizza before it gets cold, OK?
      • The sad thing is that AOL canned WASTE (pun not intended) after only a few hours of Justin posting it, and removed the file from the server. Compare this article to the original Slashdot article on WASTE [slashdot.org]. Very similar.
  • "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting."
    i guess the desire to leave AOL, and create something good go hand in hand

  • Old news? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by complexmath ( 449417 ) * on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:09PM (#10870899)
    I posted about Group in response to the GAIM thread the the other day [slashdot.org]. That said, my only complaint about Grouper is the obvious one--music is only streamable, not downloadable (though I imagine renaming the extension and/or compressing the file would be an easy way around this). If the filesharing is truly private, why bother with such a restriction?
    • If the filesharing is truly private, why bother with such a restriction?

      Because this eliminates any RIAA argument. It's just like radio now. I think it's a great happy medium, I just wish Apple hadn't taken this function out of iTunes (no internet sharing anymore).

  • .......how fantastically mediocre! Next thing they'll be saying is that you need to pay for the software! D'oh!

  • KDrive (Score:5, Informative)

    by PktLoss ( 647983 ) * on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:11PM (#10870914) Homepage Journal
    KDrive [kdrive.com] allows users to set up secure groups across the net, push files to the group, and selectivly share different files with different groups
    • looks like a glorified FTP program...
    • KDrive allows users to set up secure groups across the net, push files to the group, and selectivly share different files with different groups

      Why bother renting someone else's "virtual" hard drive when you can own one? Sure, it might be nice to have someone help, but it's really easy to set this up for yourself.

      Every modern linux distribution has this ability. For less than $200, anyone can hang 200 GB of content off a cable modem connected computer and share whatever they want with their friends and f

    • WTF!? I thought this [jussieu.fr] was KDrive. No wonder I was confused earlier in the thread. "What the hell does an X server have to do with Grouper?", I thought.

  • Like unix (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This application is like everyone setting up a web server and a streaming server on their systems (integrated with IM, of course). I always feel nostalgic when functions that I learned with in unix are integrated into the desktop. Remember how 'talk', 'ytalk' and 'finger' was touched up to form IM?
    • You know, maybe I was just immature and a pervert but I always got a kick out of the finger program. I mean, c'mon. Sure, it's one way to see if your girlfriend is too drunk, but to describe it as a tool to see if someone's available is just a little too obvious. Maybe a name like touch....ok, that doesn't work either....how about.... ahh, finger it must be.
  • Sounds like a more polished version of WASTE [sf.net].

  • File sharing is the suxx0rz. (Score:3, Funny)

    by rice_burners_suck ( 243660 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:13PM (#10870933)
    This is a really bad idea. First of all, it will cause people to illegally share music, movies, software, and other valuable intellectual property. Because file sharing software makes the decisions, not its users.

    By leveraging innovative technologies, content providers streamline compelling enterprise solutions.

    The RIAA, MPAA, and Microsoft should get together to put a stop to this before it becomes a larger problem than it already is. That is, unless the FBI, CIA, the Justice Department, and the NSA figure out a way to keep track of which files are being shared, and then administer the death penalty without a trial.

    • What's this? (Score:2, Troll)

      by melted ( 227442 )
      >> By leveraging innovative technologies,
      >> content providers streamline compelling
      >> enterprise solutions.

      Sheeeeit, that's a good one. My bullshitometer EXPLODED.

  • Done before? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How is this different from WASTE [sourceforge.net]?

  • we have that already (Score:4, Interesting)

    by geg81 ( 816215 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:17PM (#10870972)
    These "enterprise P2P" efforts seem to be attempting to recreate Windows File Sharing or NFS and call it "P2P". It's not clear whether that's a good idea. Those attempts have some things going for them: self-administration by users, no requirements for a central server, and distributed search. On the other hand, it is quite likely that enterprise administrators don't want some of those features. And they have some disadvantages, too: no auditing, no backup, no direct integration with end-user software (although, I suppose, you will see MS Office plugins).
    • My principal interest in Grouper is to have an easy way to share data with friends and family members. And while I could set up an NFS share or FTP server to do this, it's much easier to suggest Grouper to the less technically inclined. Personally, I think Grouper is a very primising applicaton, though the restriction on music sharing seems pointless.
  • Sorry bud, yer a bit late - The Register had a story on this over two months ago http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/13/grouper_p2 p_launc/ [theregister.co.uk].

    Hell, I was seeding a torrent for it on the release date, 23rd September - still running now lol...

  • I tend to disagree with those who say that private networks won't be successful in distributing media. Take for instance Friendster, you'll eventually run into people who wish to form nodes by linking with anyone who requests (not just long-time friends). These people will eventually function as a media stations and be able to deliver focused media to their network.

  • Kinda like Aimster (Score:4, Interesting)

    by siliconjunkie ( 413706 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:25PM (#10871038)
    The whole concept sounds a lot like Aimster [howstuffworks.com]. I never used Aimster (because i havent used the AIM application since Trillian became available), but as I remember it, it was an application that "piggybacked" on AIM and allowed you to have filesharing circle with anyone on your buddy list. This "Grouper" thing just seems to run with that idea to me. Aimster (a href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/09/ 0049220&tid=141">ran into legal trouble and became Madster [madster.com].
    • Oops...

      The whole concept sounds a lot like Aimster [howstuffworks.com]. I never used Aimster (because i havent used the AIM application since Trillian became available), but as I remember it, it was an application that "piggybacked" on AIM and allowed you to have filesharing circle with anyone on your buddy list. This "Grouper" thing just seems to run with that idea to me. Aimster ran into legal trouble [slashdot.org] and became Madster [madster.com].

  • The future of P2P.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jemenake ( 595948 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:30PM (#10871088)
    When the RIAA started suing P2P users, I predicted that the future of P2P was going to be some encapsulation-type system, where I could share with people *I* trusted.... and they'd share with people *they* trusted, etc. So, you'd get this "six degrees of separation" deal going on.

    The principle would end up working kind of like how terrorist cells work, such that the RIAA managing to bust one overly-trusting user wouldn't immediately jeopardize the rest of the users on the network.

    It seems like that's kinda where we're headed with a lot of the new P2P apps coming out: Grouper, WASTE, etc. Now, we just need a system where we can actually *get* files from people we don't immediately trust by having the peers that we *do* trust act as relay stations or something. Granted, it increases traffic, but it cuts the risk *way* down.... and I don't really mind having to leave my P2P app running all night provided I can do it with impunity.
    • "Now, we just need a system where we can actually *get* files from people we don't immediately trust by having the peers that we *do* trust act as relay stations or something."

      It's called newsgroups or IRC. Both relatively easy to use (once you learn to tell the difference between the "good" stuff and the crap) and not targeted by the RIAA or MPAA. At least not yet.

    • I'm sorry... Did you really intend to liken P2P filesharing and Terrorism?
  • Now that something somewhere with this functionality will finally get wide exposure (slashdot is a great start) we can expect an OSS software package based on this to appear within a few months. Of course I'd prefer if GAIM was expanded to include this functionality.

    Cheers,
    _GP_

  • Innovative? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nate nice ( 672391 )
    I'm sure they want (or have) patent's on this. So I gues Hotline, Carracho, KDX and all the other programs like this don't count. I don't see why this will make much money as Hotline tried to go commercial and it flopped. I mean, you can't really sell pirating software to pirates, can you?

    Not that this doesn't have legit uses, but I hope these dudes are better marketers than they are innovators.
    • Don't forget about DirectConnect too... Sort of falls under that trusted network of users program too...
      • Yeah, there's a boatload of them which is why I'm not impressed. But, innovation is not the key to a profitable company. There are glaring example of this which are too obvious to list.

  • Groupware? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Conception ( 212279 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:33PM (#10871107)
    I was really excited by this at first. The idea of putting together IM and a non-outlook groupware solution seemed like a cool idea. Mix ical and IM with p2p without the ICQ bloat? Could be cool. Sadly... grouper is not this. It's waste with a pretty interface with a hint of the possibility of big brother watching me. :( Oh well.

  • Open question for Justin Frankel.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GeneralEmergency ( 240687 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:36PM (#10871128) Journal


    Justin...

    Just what is it about working for AOL that makes people want to design and distribute software that ' sticks it to the MAN '?

    Is it the bad coffee, doyathink?

    • For some reason your comment was moderated insightful instead of funny.

      Either the mods are crack-smoking, stock-owning sympathizers of "The Man" and "The System", or, the mods are... just on crack. :)

      (Anyway, don't assume that everyone who's over 30 and working for some soulless corporation has been assimilated into the boring status quo. Rocking the boat is great fun (especially if you can afford to, like Justin can))

      --

  • A Bloated WASTE (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DaViking ( 827886 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:41PM (#10871172)
    I use and really like the idea of WASTE, although i wish it had a nicer UI. This takes it to an extreme and over complicates the matter. Also, as far as secure goes, I have issues with having to register to use it. I'm going to stick to WASTE where I don't have to worry about any third parties.
    • I agree, but the biggest problem with waste is that it's so rarely updated. The last downloadable update was put out almost 6 months ago. The file browsing interface is very clunky and the instant messenger feature cuts off all messages over around 100-150 characters without warning you. I'd be all over grouper if like you said, they didn't require you to register with their service first.. Gee.. here's your totally private network that no one but you guys have access to, but oh, hey, we hold all the keys

  • shoot (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Shoot the Grouper...

  • well thought out! (Score:3, Funny)

    by SkunkPussy ( 85271 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:54PM (#10871255) Journal
    Felser said rich media advertising will be embedded into the free version, and e-commerce tie-ins with online music stores and photo printing services will also offer business opportunities.

    so no real business plan here then.

    1. e-commerce tie-ins with online music stores and photo printing services
    2. ???
    3. profit

  • Prediction for next generation file sharing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sokk ( 691010 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @08:09PM (#10871335)
    When I got on the internet for the first time I was on dial-up. It cost money to stay on the net. My first thought was to download as much as I could, so that I could use it when I needed it (Downloading whole sites for offline viewing pleasure. Eg. Code sample archives).

    I felt that way about programs too. I had to download them to my computer. I burned them out and archived them, just in case I would need them for a reinstall or for a friend.

    Nowadays I seldom keep the installation program of applications. Why? Because I know they're out there. I can get them at a moments notice. How come? I've got a broadband connection now.

    This is how I feel the next generation file sharing will become. Currently everyone is downloading everything. To have it handy. To use it. It doesn't need to be like that. I don't yet know how the technical solutions will be (if they ever will).

    Imagine: A world wide archive of music at your fingertips. You don't have (much) of it at your hard drive, because it's accessible through the net. You have your favorite music "bookmarked" to make your collection. Music playback is instantly - because of the evolution of the speed of the net, and the evolution of the file sharing technology.

    You won't have to think about "the files" as files. You think of them as entities. Always accessible.

    You'll (as mentioned) probably have to keep a part of the world wide collection at your hard drive. (If it can't be stored at the net, always flowing).

    Well, some of my thoughts. :). I know it's pretty far out, but it would've been neat. Any thougts?
    • I agree who-heartedly that "in the future" we'll all be contributing and consuming little bits of "the net". Every site we visit, every message we read, every song we hear, every video clip, every program really, will be held in the "ether" as it is being trasmitted from someone who has it to someone who wants it. All you have to do is "tune" to that channel of bits and you'll be simultaniously helping others get access to it AND getting it for yourself. This assumes that "ALL" devices will have some mem

    • Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      > Imagine: A world wide archive of music at your fingertips. You don't have (much) of it at your hard drive, because it's accessible through the net. You have your favorite music "bookmarked" to make your collection. Music playback is instantly - because of the evolution of the speed of the net, and the evolution of the file sharing technology.

      I can imagine that world. And I can imagine the lawyers destroying that world because it threatens their clients' business model.

      I'd like to live in that worl

    • You are absolutely right-on in your vision.

      It's not what you have, but the knowledge of how to get it - coupled with the technology to access it seamlessly.

      Yesterday it was a Ramdisk, now its a hard-drive, tomorrow you'll use a SAN at home, in six years your SAN will be a Wide-Area-SAN.

      You'll share the pointers to the files, not the data itself, that makes as much sense as zipping up a website and e-mailing it instead of sending the URL.

      As far as music is concerned, the technology is not just there..

  • iTunes on crack. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Kujila ( 826706 )
    A lot of you seemed turned off immediately when the acronym "AOL" appeared, but did you even bother to try out the program yet? I've been using it for a week or so now, and I'm really impressed with it's music-streaming capabilities. It's like iTunes' network sharing abilities on crack.

    If any of the rest of you are interested in joining my new grouper group, drop me a line (check my profile)

  • grouper don't like mozilla (Score:3, Informative)

    by upt1me ( 537466 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @09:49PM (#10871812) Homepage
    Problem with Email Verification

    Grouper was unable to automatically verify your email address. This could be caused by one of the following:

    * Your default browser is not Internet Explorer.
    * Internet Explorer is not configured to run signed, trusted ActiveX controls.
    • Try reading the rest of the message! Here it is for those of you whose attention span didn't quite make it past the 1st three lines.

      To continue with the email verification process, either enable ActiveX controls in your browser and refresh this page,

      or:

      1. Download and install Grouper [grouper.com] if you haven't already done so.
      2. Copy the 'Email Verification Code' from the email message.
      3. Run Grouper and click on your user name at the top left of the Grouper main window.
      4. Select 'Paste Invite Code...' command from
  • The makers of the popular p2p network eDonkey have already been working on this for a while. Its called K:Drive [kdrive.com]. Check it out.

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