Envisioning the Desktop Fabricator 436
mkl writes "Yesterday I fantasized about a generator of matter. Not a laser plotter for carving 3d objects, but a device that will assemble any given object from its base, out of atoms. I was thinking about a device that can find its place under the roofs of all the people working on PCs all over the world. So I fantasize about it at work and what do I see in the Wired News newsletter? 'Any product, any shape, any size -- manufactured on your desktop! The future is the fabricator.' Heh."
That's where we differ. (Score:5, Funny)
I also fantasized about a generator of matter, one that was able to generate Natalie Portman right in front of me complete with a handbag full of a strange gritty substance. Ooooh yeah.
Re:That's where we differ. (Score:2)
Also, who's to say your fabricated goddess would be alive? (eeeeww!)
Re:That's where we differ. (Score:3, Informative)
See this link on Slashdot trolling phenomena [wikipedia.org].
Be prepared for even more "eeeeww"s!
Re:That's where we differ. (Score:2)
Don't laugh (or do, I don't care) (Score:5, Interesting)
But what is more likely is biological printers that grow stuff out of cells. It will be much easier to let the cells do the work of reproducing and just induce specialization into a lattice of pre-grown tissue through chemical infusion.
This wouldn't be home genetic engineering, just creation of specialized tissue from a batch of pre-cooked cells of a fixed genome. It could be some other organism's genome, plant or animal or something specially designed for object replication, or even, your own...
So in 50 years or so, you or a doctor may be "printing" out a new patch of skin for your tatoo removal or a new seed for a lost tooth, or high follical count skin for your balding head. Or a tentacle to help you type faster. Or, well, I don't really want to even get into where elective plastic surgery is likely to go in the next decade with reguard to certain less seemly "self-enhancements" people might be inclined to make, nevermind the concept of "home bio-generation kits."
It's truly scary stuff -- let's just say tomorrow's anime conventions may not require costumes for the truly devoted fans.
Re: women out of matter = pygmalian and galatea (Score:3, Informative)
> fantasized about a generator of matter,
> one that was able to generate [image of beauty]
> right in front of me complete with a handbag
> full of a strange gritty substance...
this fantasizing of procuring women from stone has persisted
thousands of years in the greek legend of 'pygmalion galatea [google.com]'
Pygmalion and Galatea in Greek Mythology [loggia.com]
Pygmalion saw so much to blame in women that he came at last to abhor the sex, and resolved to live unmarried. He was a sculptor, and had made with wonderful s
Finally (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Finally (Score:2, Funny)
Dude, haven't you seen The 5th Element?
Re:Finally (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Finally (Score:2)
Re:Finally (Score:2)
Brilliant (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Brilliant (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Brilliant (Score:2)
roddenberry wasn't the original either -- this fantasizing
of procuring women from stone has persisted thousands of years
in the greek legend of 'pygmalion galatea [google.com]'
Pygmalion and Galatea in Greek Mythology [loggia.com] - Pygmalion saw so much to blame in women that he came at last to abhor the sex, and resolved to live unmarried. He was a sculptor, and had made with wonderful skill a statue of ivory, so beautiful that no living woman came anywhere near it. It was indeed the perfect semblance of a maiden that seemed to be
Re:Brilliant (Score:2)
The Diamond Age (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The Diamond Age (Score:3, Funny)
Clearly, you are indeed a scholar of Mr Stephenson's work.
Re:The Diamond Age (Score:3, Informative)
..which begs the question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:..which begs the question (Score:5, Funny)
Re:..which begs the question (Score:2)
--
Re:..which begs the question (Score:2)
Fantasies ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Had to be done... (Score:5, Funny)
Viruses (Score:2)
I'd imagine when in 2350 the captain orders his hot tea and "Windows Starship Edition" clunks out a glass of hot pthactol blood he won't be very happy. Makes for an amusing prank possibility though. That and the "nude" holodeck patch...
Re:Viruses (Score:2)
ST Replicator != Molecular Manufacturing (Score:2)
Another major difference is that desktop nanotech will be within our grasp within a few decades at most [kurzweilai.net], but not Star-Trek-style Replication.
Re:ST Replicator != Molecular Manufacturing (Score:3, Funny)
As for the whole world hunger thing... the problem isn't one of the volume or mass of food, it's a matter of money to purchase it or to ship it in a timely manner to where it's needed. If the people can't afford food, they sure can't afford a molecular manufacturing machine to "build" the food. Not to mention the energy to run the things.
Re:ST Replicator != Molecular Manufacturing (Score:3, Insightful)
Or the local religion declares them to be the tools of the devil?
Or the complexity of recreating a replicator causes the pattern to be corrupted?
Oh wait I forgot this is magic technology.
It never malfunctions and is always availible to anyone anywhere even if they are in such a back-assward place that hasn't even invented toothbrushes yet.
Heh, (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, you use a hack to capture the instructions for atomically building the latest gadget or toy and then everyone shares it over bittorrent.
How is this idea different from replicators on Star Trek anyway?
Re:Heh, (Score:2)
Re:Heh, (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Heh, (Score:2)
Plug it in. Make solar cells. Unplug it. Plug it into solar cells. Power problem solved.
Lexmark is gonna love this. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But... (Score:3, Funny)
Too late (Score:2)
Re:Too late (Score:2)
Limited applications (Score:2, Interesting)
Not to troll, but vaporware it too concrete a term for this technology. Emperors may be impressed, as well as Marketing people.
Wouldn't such a thing... (Score:4, Interesting)
Think about it.. once you buy such a device, no matter *what* the initial cost, you could use it to make almost anything... including, other devices!
Such a device would make physical goods value-less. The only things of value any longer would be services and artistic creations.
Then again, this all sounds way too good to be true. We're not evolved enough as a sepcies to have that kind of tech - think also - everyone instantly has access to unlimited weapons. Great.
We would kill ourselves off as a species within days.
Then again maybe that's not a bad thing.
Re:Wouldn't such a thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
Peasent 1: "These new fangled factories , they can be made to produce anything! They'll make our hand made goods valueless! They could even use it to build parts for other factories!"
Peasent 2: "You're right Mr Ludd. Lets burn em all down!"
I am not suggesting not doing it (Score:2)
These kinds of things need to be treade don lightly, or we will bring about our own destruction.
Re:I am not suggesting not doing it (Score:2)
Economics.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Imagine the day when robots do most of the work.. Building, manufacturing, construction, planting.. Who can beat a machine specialized at a task?
Remember the GM workers in Detriot replaced by machines on the assembly lines?
At some point when the world is all SERVICE oriented.. because none actually produces anything.. Then all the people who HAVE money will be KINGS and QUEENS. Make sense?
I think so.
Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:3, Insightful)
What service would you possibly sell? And what are the people paying you with, and why do you want it? You don't have to buy anything anymore, you can make it with your fab. Food, water, shelter, entertainment. all are costless. So why would you bother providing services to anyone in exchange for something?
Such a revolution could only lead to one of two inevitable systems:
1) The world becomes a Star-Trek like Utopia. poverty, hunger, and want are a
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:2)
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:2)
However, services will still be necessary since being able to build something atom-by-atom doesn't mean that you can _design_ the thing atom-by-atom yourself. You still need to get someone to figure out the layout
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:3, Insightful)
Thank you for some really good, really practical questions. Off the top of my head, here's some brainstormin':
Sex. Live music. Any one-off art object guaranteed never to have been scanned for replication. Any human performance, like a stage play or an athletic contest. Conversation. Competition. Tutoring. Religion. Experiences. Health care expertise. Any living thing - plants, pets livestock. Any illegal thing. Insurance. Legal services. Bodyguard serv
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:2)
2 - Have the machine make a garbage disposal/atomizer. Solved.
3 - The Internet. Open Source. Solved.
Re:Think deeper. Economics is dead at that point. (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on. We have power now. This is not any kind of a serious issue.
Almost certainly from the manufacturer of the replicator, along with your first bag of "manu-dust"(tm) - it'd be the first thing any user of such a device should make, no matter what purpose they're using it for.
Re:Wouldn't such a thing... (Score:2)
Construction from readily available elements (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.) would be much easier, of course.
True, except for one thing.... (Score:2)
So anyone can just fab up a space shuttle and some scavenger robots and set them lose in the solar system, collecting any elements that are sufficintly rare enough on Earth to warrant such a hassle.
Re:Wouldn't such a thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
The only problem is if these means are NOT released to the people, but controlled by companies. If we decend in to a world of DRM trousers, closed-source bicycles, patented turkey sandwiches, we are going to be an even more unhappy bunch of people.
The development of these technologies makes the pursuit of open and free exchange of ideas ever more pressing.
everyone eats = chaos? (Score:2)
As for throwing the world economy into chaos, I'd say it would do exactly the opposite. If everyone can make anything they want, that means everyone can now feed and clothe themselves. A world full of well fed, well clothed and shod people is not what I call "chaos".
The uber-elite rich of the world probably won't like the fact that t
Re:everyone eats = chaos? (Score:2)
That doesn't address the nature of the problem. If we're talking about replicators that can fab atomic structures - which we almost certainly are for 99% of the blue skying in the comments here - then the problem is that the replicator can make extremely high quality explosives, fissionables, high speed switches (required for properly timed detonation of the plastic explosives surrounding a sphere of fissionable material)... yo
So much bulshit, so little time... (Score:3, Informative)
Probably because it is too good to be true. They're just so many flawed assumptions behind the idea of the desktop replicator that puts it on the same level as warp drive, a literary device that is good for those moments when you need the hero to create an object on the fly, but really bad when talking about future economics.
Such a device would make physical goods value-less. The only things of value any longer would be services and artistic creations
What's next (Score:4, Funny)
Re:What's next (Score:2)
universe panic: stack overflow
Re:What's next (Score:3, Interesting)
It will be expensive and slow, and still large (Score:5, Informative)
It also costed $25,000.
The machine type described are good for prototyping and custom parts, but there are usually better mass production methods. Laying down atom-by-atom will be slow for a loooong time and at best be of most consequence to nanomachines for that time.
And what happens when... (Score:2)
You then have a fab that can fab fabs. That's the economic singularity point - the initial cost of the fab is then irrelevant - it could be millions, or billions, it doesn't matter because one can create another, ad-infinitum.
At that point you have an economic breakdown on a global scale, since anyone can create anything from anything else.
Re:It will be expensive and slow, and still large (Score:2)
A fabricator that builds nanomachines that do
"Hello, is that the cloning lab? I've got this cell, here, I was wondering if you could make anything of it...".
Eric Drexler - Engines of Creation (Score:5, Interesting)
Not everyone thinks this is only a dream. Of course, many people think these people are crazy.
But one must reach a bit beyond the accepted if one is to achieve something greater than the norm.
or make art (Score:5, Interesting)
and a clickable link . . . (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:or make art (Score:2)
Depositing 1 mole of stuff atom by atom (Score:5, Interesting)
Slow, slow.
Piracy (Score:3, Funny)
Total Annihilation (Score:2)
Seriously though, it'll probably be a big mess if this kind of thing is ever invented. There's enough trouble already with "intellectual property". Imagine if everything suddenly was like that. Would sure make life interesting.
potential. (Score:2)
Obligatory Calvin and Hobbes quote (Score:5, Funny)
Hobbes: "Hmm..."
Calvin: "Anything at all! Whatever you want!"
Hobbes: "A sandwich."
Calvin: "A SANDWICH?!? WHAT KIND OF STUPID WISH IS THAT?!"
Calvin: "Talk about a failure of imagination! I'd ask for a trillion billion dollars, my own space shuttle, and a private continent!"
Hobbes: (eating sandwich) "I got MY wish."
Mmm... (Score:2)
Or are you saying it can make living things?!
Wow, I think that's dangerously close a geek's sex fantasy.
the PAST is the fabricator (Score:2)
Sure its cool, but dont get so worked up about it..
Re:the PAST is the fabricator (Score:2)
they mention the use of older style fabricators, the goal of this project is much more than trying to build a model of a prodcut. The goal of this is to produce a working product (ie electronics, moving parts) which the article claims this fabricator can do.
Seems doubtfull to me but would be extremely cool if it works. Where are the pics and vids of this thing?
a grim warning from the future (Score:2)
There will have to be some built-in limits on what can be made in a "Desktop Fabricator", however, otherwise an intelligent enough machine could end up like the maker in Warren Ellis' excellent "Transmetropolitan [transmetropolitan.com]" series; constantly manufacturing and taking its own drugs.
~jeff
Desktop Fabricator == Filesharing (Score:2)
Look at the Desktop Fabricator as a physical analog to general purpose computers and the Internet. Just like the computers and the Internet reduce the marginal cost of duplicating information, the Desktop Fabricator does the same f
Re:Desktop Fabricator == Filesharing (Score:3, Interesting)
So, with a deskfabber in hundreds of thousands of bedrooms owned by mischievious teenagers, you'll have the world's largest arms race in a
Software a natural and not common there (Score:3, Insightful)
Desktop fabrication in a specific area, say software, is still pretty uncommon. Nevermind that program generators for cobal have been around for ages. A buddy who has been in IT since the only computers around were made of vacuum tubes has coupled his cobol generators with some program conversion utilities he wrote and now generates java programs based by specifying what they are supposed to do, rather than coding in java. One would think this sort of thing would be much more common in software.
An earlier
There have also been articles on hydroforming, foam in place construction, etc.
As for rapid prototype '3-D' printers, the articles author seems to miss two major uses of this technology. Form and fit prototypes, and most common, rapid pattern making for casting.
Yes, it's happening within specific industries, big time, but the general purpose desktop fab is far in the future.
let them eat cake...and see what happens! (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, corporations would try to "fix" this situation with DRM-encoded recipes. Anyone can make a shoe (with the help of open source), but if you want the new spectacular Nike shoe recipe you have to spend money...the recipe components are downloaded to your nanofactory and boom, you have the "cool" shoe.
What this would do would be to make branding more important that it already is. Emphasis will be placed on quality and style of the product instead of usability (which will be possible to gain for practically nothing). Stephenson thought that this would give rise to a whole new artisan class of the economy which I agree is possible.
There will be economic restabilization, and that's going to mean a lot of death and suffering for a lot of people. Since people kill each other over resources anything that creates a massive alteration in how resources (and thus people) are controlled will result in war, whether they can produce the weapons from nanofacotries or not . But you just wait, this is only a precursor to the real suffering.
The real danger of this, at least for me, isn't economic restabilization, but population control. With such a device food will be possible to create even more easily. No need for crops, cattle or any other "source" of food. All food can be manufactured for the simple cost of energy needed to combine the appropriate atoms.
Any ecologist will tell you that the one thing that limits a population is food. (lots of people debate this and say humans are different. That we control our population at will, however since the "invention" of agriculture the world's human population has done nothing but go up. When the world's population starts decreasing because of self-imposed limits, then I'll listening to how we determine our own carrying capacity). World hunger is a constant issue now, but if everyone in the world can eat, I assure you that the world's next generation will be even bigger. And if all of them can eat...well you see where I'm going.
The only thing limiting (and I use that word loosely) global population is the manufacture and distribution of food. If those limitations are taking away the world is soon going to be a very cramped and unlivable place.
Oil, gold, diamonds or that rolex (Score:2)
2. Create gold and diamonds
3. Profit!
Alternately, make a Rolex and tell those spammers to get lost!
The results won't be so wimpy (Score:2)
Open Source Hardware Design (Score:2)
This thing could potentially put product manufacturing as we know it out of business.
"Hey man, download the new version of that lawnmower bot! It's really cool! I've got some patches that have yet to be accepted into the main tree, but it pulls weeds as it cuts the grass! Pretty cool eh?"
Worse yet, EVERYTHING becomes intellectual property... not just software, patents, and the like, but EVERYTHING.
Any shape, any size, any product? (Score:2)
gabe newell - SMASH (Score:2)
Muuuuhahahah - Mooooohahahahha !
CNC Milling Machines (Score:2)
It isn't a molecular fabricator.
But a machine that can mill 5 or 6 micron wide details does for me today what tomorrow I won't be able to do with a 'molecular fabricator'.
Did I mention I'm a chemist?
If you want molecular precision, is can happen. If you want to build larger structures, it can happen.
Bridging between different size domains isn't as simple as drawing a large CAD model of something and saying make-it-so. The complexity of design of a significant item would be huge. It wouldn't lead to
Reminds me of a PKD story... (Score:3, Funny)
Anyhow, on a post-apocalyptic Earth (as always) the saviors of humankind are these huge bloblike aliens who fabricate anything people want from them out of dust. Cars, houses, clothes, food, etc. Problem is people have been depending on these aliens for so many generations that they have no idea how make anything, and they aliens are starting to die off (and all the things the aliens conjured are falling apart)--panic ensues. Enter the hero who shows people an ugly, crude clay mug that he made himself.
if people take ideas from SciFi... (Score:3, Insightful)
People at MIT didn't come up with the idea. In fact, they didn't come up with the hardware either: they took a bunch of off-the-shelf components (laser cutters, 3D scanner), put them together in the obvious and known way, and apparently are saying "look how smart we are". That is more a testament to the size of their bank account than to their smarts. Most people don't build those kinds of systems yet because they don't make economic sense yet. Once laser cutters and 3D scanners come down in price to the point of printers and digital cameras, then those combinations will be widely deployed.
When that happens, just be sure to give credit where credit is due: the original visionaries, and the people who created the technology that made it work: the engineers developing the laser cutters and the inventors coming up with organic semiconductors used in the ink jet printers used for custom electronics manufacturing.
Resources (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, I'm sure there would be SERIOUS economic changes, but in order for this thing to function, it would need resources, which countries control.
This would either lead to war over resources, and a desire for people to control those resources. Think about that and what it leads to.
Buta ctualyl fabriating anything will... (Score:3, Insightful)
You will be able to use a fabricator only after taking legal advice, that is until they are banned as "devices designed to faciliate IP theft".
Re:A cup of Earl Grey, Hot. (Score:2)
Re:Ch1x0rs!!!1! (Score:2)
Nah (Score:2)
Re:Glock this! (Score:2)
Re:Glock this! (Score:2, Interesting)
How about circumvention of the whole bank robbery. Just make some money.
Re:It's been done (Score:2)
Re:36-24-36 (Score:2)
Or, uhh, (Score:2)
(it's slashdot. . . someone had to say it)
Re:ugh (Score:4, Informative)
Go read Drexler's "Engines of Creation" for the classic "nanoassembler" hype. The idea of pushing atoms together is neat, but it's hard to do. Free-floating nanoassemblers are still a fantasy. I expect to see nanoassemblers, but they'll probably be more like scanning tunneling microscopes made on an IC substrate and used to read and write DNA. Making big hunks of solid materials that way is too slow. Look at how long it takes to make a tree, or a coral reef, or a pearl. (Admittedly biology is power-limited. In a manufacturing environment, you can run external power into the nanomachines and remove that limitation. But that won't work for the free-floating nanomachine concept.)
If you have a good milling machine, you can make almost any solid shape you want. I know four people with milling machines at home. Two of them have good computer-controlled mills with all the necessary software. Yet they don't actually make all that much. One of them is building a steam engine, and he's been at that for years.
Then there are stereolithography machines. The newer ones work fine. You can now make things out of ABS and nylon, which are tough enough to be useful. This is a big improvement over the early models, which made only soft wax models nice to look at but useless.
It's a very slow way to make stuff. In the real world, almost all consumer products, with the notable exception of wood and fabric products, are made by some kind of cheap moulding process. There are dozens of such processes, from die casting to injection moulding to progressive stamping, but they all involve forcing material into a mould. This is an incredibly cheap process in quantity, and is why manufactured goods are so cheap. Very few consumer items are made by machining down a solid hunk of material.
Even ICs aren't made by direct writing. It's quite possible to make ICs with direct-writing electron beam machines. This eliminates the need for masks, and every IC can be different. Works fine. Useful ICs have been prototyped that way for years. Too slow to be commercially feasible.
Re:NATALIE PORTMAN NOW!!! (Score:2, Funny)