Business Week On Desktop Search Economics 106
prostoalex writes "Business Week responds to the recent announcement by Yahoo! to join the ever-competitive desktop search field and asks whether any money will be made in giving away free utilities for desktop search. Apparently, beyond the intangible benefit of brand loyalty (which on the Internet probably doesn't amount to a whole lot), the only way to make money off the desktop search engines, as Business Week sees it, is to show related ads, which is bound to bring up some privacy issues."
Personal Search Tool (Score:5, Interesting)
Every time you bought a new item (anything RFID-ed), you pair it with this PST, which you wear like a watch, and its location is then recorded on a 3D grid of your designated surrounding (eg house mode, car mode). And this PST will constantly monitor/update its search index.
I think search is almost indispensable now, I almost always open up google.com when I tried to find my car key, and I feel as bad as those who wanted to carjack vehicles after playing too much GTA. I must be dreaming.
Re:Personal Search Tool (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Personal Search Tool (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Personal Search Tool (Score:2)
Re:Personal Search Tool (Score:1)
Re:Personal Search Tool (Score:1)
Not regular brand loyalty (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Not regular brand loyalty (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Not regular brand loyalty (Score:3, Insightful)
Its the "let's make the hard drive as easy to navigate as the web by using the same tools" that now leads to "let's make the hard drive as easy to search as the web using the same tools".
Both approaches fail in that they don't seem to understand doing these things for your hard drive should be easier than doing it on the web.
At least Apple seems to "get it" even if they don't always get
useability vs. rampant disruptiveness (Score:1)
Once again, money money money (Score:3, Insightful)
Brand loyalty (in my segment) will default to 'benevolent' google.
Cash isn't king to everyone, but programmers do have to eat (And corporations do have to make a profit else they get hammered off the street).
Re:Once again, money money money (Score:1)
Re:Once again, money money money (Score:1)
Ads = No desktop search (Score:3, Insightful)
Ads related to my web searches? Ok. Ads based on what files are on my PC? No thanks, too big of a privacy concern for me.......
Re:Ads = No desktop search (Score:2)
Why else would a publicly traded corporation release a product?
Re:Ads = No desktop search (Score:2)
Re:Ads = No desktop search (Score:1)
Ads = Money (Score:1)
Wake Up! What business do you think Yahoo and Google are in? How do you think they make money? Does just having a bunch of people use your free search engine/instant messenger/web-mail/whatever just magically generate revenue? No, these comapnies are in the Advertising Business. They sell advertising space. Everything else is just a way to get you to watch (and hopefully c
Have a stay at the No-Tell Motel on Route 9! (Score:5, Funny)
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Redeem this coupon before January 30 or you might just suffer an unfortunate mass mailing virus infestation. What was your spouse's e-mail address again...?
Re:Only a fool (Score:2)
There's money there? (Score:2, Interesting)
Yet another hole to cram advertising in (Score:2)
It seems to me that Google is right, if want to keep a happy customer, stop advertising at every possibility!
Ok, that's enough ranting now.
Re:Yet another hole to cram advertising in (Score:2)
Re:Yet another hole to cram advertising in (Score:2)
ADBLOCKER (Score:2)
Re:Yet another hole to cram advertising in (Score:2)
Re:Yet another hole to cram advertising in (Score:1)
Re:Desktops? (Score:1)
Re:Desktops? (Score:2)
Re:Desktops? (Score:1)
I think so -only they're called cell phones - but that's the difference. Perhaps, the average person's computer hardware is changing to become more special purpose which will encourage the issuing of free digital devices in those areas that provide a positive revenue model.
Also, the sometimes successful idea o
Views vs. Clicks (Score:4, Interesting)
So they make something so that people can get things done _faster_.
Then they put advertisements in.
Then hope they'll forget they were trying to get things done and start clicking on those ads?
Makes no sense.
That's like hoping someone will leave during a tv show to get the product they see during a commercial.
The only money they'll make from advertising is views, not clicks. And we know this doesn't work.
Re:Views vs. Clicks (Score:2)
So I don't understand why the companies would particularly want to create these tools unless they were going to be adware. But then that brings me back to the question of, why would consumers want t
Solved. (Score:1, Funny)
This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
The economics of some of these tools are going to require companies to hijack our desktop with pop-up ads or 'relevant' ads.
However, the Open Source Software community could provide tools to do this without the profit motive.
Its kinda like the ole saying, 'some things only the government can/wants to do'; well some things only the OSS commu
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
And who provides the cash to take care of the overhead? Sure, if I had someone paying for my distribution, maintenance and support costs I could release successful software too. In the end someone has to foot the bill. And if the OSS community is so gung-ho to this concept there is nothing blocking their path.
BTW: Joe Sixpack still isn't going to give a rats ass about open source reguardless. You give him
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
And besides gaining more support for open source what other reason would someone else bother with such a project? There certainly won't be a paycheck involved if you're not worry about profit. Good intentions are fine but it doesn't pay the bills.
Gross generalisation. Open source often pays the bills. When one developer can develop a software used by millions of people the marginal cost per person is in the noise. Broken per-copy IP licensing models break this simple truth. With 6,400,000,000+ [census.gov] people in
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
Fact is, you haven't answered my question... Who's going to pay the bills? This isn't about producing an app, it's about making an app work on a large scale with support, distribution and future developement. Your rant is the sad reflection of a lack of contemplation on the subject. I'm sure you know nothing about my education either.
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
If OSS development results in a team of people, the division of labor can be spread out so that you dont need to s
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
Who's going to pay the bills?
Same as always - the customers. If they want something not already available, they pay for it. They will be paying a lot less than the $35,000,000,000+ per year that M$ alone is currently raking in. Lucky customers, it's about time it became a commodity market.
This isn't about producing an app, it's about making an app work on a large scale with support, distribution and future developement. Your rant is the sad reflection of a lack of contemplation on the subject.
Yep,
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:2)
Uh, this isn't about Microsoft. It's about a limited product that will be offered for free by others. You're trying to run competition against what will likely be nothing more than a loss leader for Google. Please. Let's stick the to REAL subject. This isn't anti-open source, this is about a single product that will probably cost to those pro
Re:This is where OSS can shine! (Score:1)
It's not a question of money. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a question of money, but of presence. Once you have everyone using your software, you can look at sneaking in profit centers.
Google's a great example. They didn't start with AdSense - they added it once they were king.
Once your app is everywhere, you have all sorts of options. For example, if you don't want to sell ads, write another (commercial) program which expands the functionality of the original.
It's not always about the quick buck. Sometimes, it's about putting yourself in the proper position.
Re:It's not a question of money. (Score:2)
How much did IE develpment cost with no real chance of turning a profit?
How about the Xbox?
Its all jockeying for the position at the top of the hill. Then you make the money.
Um... (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe they need to teach people how to use a computer... because I can't see this catering to anyone but the "I can't find my files even though Windows XP Retard Edition saves it to My\ Documents by default" crowd.
Can't someone just port grep -r to win32, maybe put a fancy GUI around it? Or is it suddenly innovation to reinvent simple tools unix already invented 30 years ago?
Let's use "grep -r" to search the internet! (Score:3, Insightful)
Will grep find an instance of a word in a pdf document buried in gigabytes of data? What about a plain text document, who will find it faster, grep or GDS?
You do know these things are indexing your docs right?
Maybe you should invent a dumb search engine that gets rid of all that wasteful indexing nonsense does the following:
NoMoreNicksLeft's search engine (v 1.0)
1)
Re:Let's use "grep -r" to search the internet! (Score:2)
Dumbass.
Grep is pretty lean, doesn't have to fuck with the win32 API, and does indeed work on strings hidden in any file. I think it would easily give GDS a run for its money, considering that anyone who deserves to be using a modern computer, has at least the base skills needed to actually organize their damn files
Re:Let's use "grep -r" to search the internet! (Score:1)
Re:Let's use "grep -r" to search the internet! (Score:2)
grep sucks. grep is woefully inadequate when you have a lot of data. When you don't know where things are or have a lot of data, grep fails in usability. Grep works fine if you assume small datasets and your time is meaningless.
That's why glimpse exist. glimpse, unlike grep, indexes data first, then searches the index. The result is significantly faster results on the same amount data.
Non-OS desktop searches will definitely suck donkey nuts. Sinc
Re:Let's use "grep -r" to search the internet! (Score:1)
A coworker of mine sent me an email about a URL about 1 year ago (now in my archived folders) that I need to use today to check for XML validities based on a specific DTD for my work.
Please tell me how you are going to search my Outlook archived folders (which is about 8GBs, when you add all of 'em together) using grep -r.
Using copernic, I can search either by author, or a date, or any part of the word that i could think of. After typing each letter
You still don't get it (Score:2)
As long as we're pulling our history, my first one was an Apple
The article is talking about "desktop search", but if you had bothered to read it or understand it, you will see that these are indexed services that search quickly and on a greater variety than something like grep!
Grep is for plain text documents, it's not going to work on PDF files, office documents, and all the other weird formats that exist on a
Re:You still don't get it (Score:2)
So because you don't understand what ... (Score:2)
If you have any clue, you can find an indexed search service for linux, but since I don't think you understand this concept yet let me help you out.
http://freshmeat.net/projects/glimpse/
What does VC++ or
Re:So because you don't understand what ... (Score:2)
Besides, wasn't my original post about "how was this some killer app" ? Great, linux has a version. And I doubt it will popup ads when I use it. Tell me, how can GDS be so cool, so special? I also use "less" and awful lot. Will Yahoo, Microsoft and Apple be competing next year over a utility that lets you scroll through long documents?
Re:So because you don't understand what ... (Score:2)
What do you mean what am I using? I'm using all kinds of tools to edit code, from vi to clunky heavy weight IDEs. I don't understand the question.
> Besides, wasn't my original post about "how was this some killer app" ?
I don't know if this is a killer app, but this is a great utility and it's much better than what you suggested; grep. Grep is great for quick searches in your
Re:Let's use "grep -r" to search the internet! (Score:1)
Yes, unless it's in any encoding other than the one you are typing in. I also highly recommend using the -l option, unless you like reading a 50,000 character line from a binary. Grep is great, but it has its limits (including an O(n) search).
Re:Um... (Score:3, Insightful)
The other thing I use GDS for is chat logs: if I remember reading someone say something, I can look for it much faster with GDS than with my megabytes of saved conversations. And if AIM crashes for whatever r
You shouldn't need it (Score:1, Flamebait)
I guess if one wanted to search through their masses of pr0n or pirated movies it would be useful, but for the average computer user, it shouldn't be necessary. Most people will probably get it because it's the "new item on the market", and they think just because it's new, it must be better.
Re:You shouldn't need it (Score:1)
Very short-sighted (Score:2)
Just because you don't have enough stuff to search through doesn't mean others can't organize. You can create as many folders as you want, it's still a ton of crap to look through.
short-term thinking (Score:3, Insightful)
When used in this context, "intangible" doesn't mean "non-existent"... it means "hard to quantify". The difficulty of quantifying the benefit of a proposal should is not per se an argument against enacting the proposal.
For example, almost any investment in infrastructure has "intangible" benefits. When a government considers whether to build new roads to stimulate economic development of an area, it is very hard to pin down precisely what benefits will be derived in terms of commerce, consumption, quality of life, opportunity cost, etc... yet these kinds of decisions are made all the time, and for good reason: a persistent lack of infrastructural investment correlates strongly with diminished outcomes over the long term.
Desktop Security (Score:2)
If any vendor does that, even MS, I wouldn't really want to use tool. Of course that will not stop Mom and Pop Netizen and all their scriptkids from using them...
Geez... Anybody knows the way to profit is... (Score:2)
Re:Geez... Anybody knows the way to profit is... (Score:1)
Not sure if Google is trying to make money... (Score:3, Insightful)
Basically, a pre-emptive strike to keep from loosing customers to Microsoft OS integration.
Re:Not sure if Google is trying to make money... (Score:2, Insightful)
Assuming, of course, that microsoft would have even thought of implementing a good desktop search system if Google had not it first.
MS has had a crude one for years, I remember my Win98 machine periodically going into a flury of disk activity, and consquently killing interactive response time, every couple of hours just to rebuild (from scratch) the full keyword index of MS word and other "Text" documents.
It took
Coming in Longhorn... (Score:1)
Re:Coming in Longhorn... (Score:1)
Well... (Score:1)
I wonder what IS in Longhorn?
Loyalty IS important factor (Score:1)
Brand loyalty doesn't amount to much on the Internet? I think that notion is very wrong. I believe that the more products/services one uses from a company - the more likely the avg person will stick with them. When a consumer trusts in a company, their loyalty usually follows. Sure, it isn't true for everyone, but trust/loyalty of the brand name is surely a very significant factor in any
Loyalty is an important factor everywhere (Score:2)
Profit from desktop search may not be the issue (Score:1)
If Microsoft was to create the only desktop search, Microsoft could leverage this to remove the need for Web-based search engines.
Microsoft wants a piece of everybody's pie. Well, the successful person's pie.
Who's to say that another Netscape-type incident couldn't occur within the search engine market?
Re:Profit from desktop search may not be the issue (Score:2)
Universal Search (Score:1)
All will act as a webserver for everyone else. Don't think in terms of 'search' think in terms of 'index.'
It's just a popularity contest (Score:1)
Just that, the boy with the most toys wins since is the one with the most friends interested in the toys, just ask erp, hm, yahoo! heh
Not important? (Score:1)
On top of that platform you can now do anything - make your own API, distributed it with an integrated web browser, or movie-viewer, and in general get all the nice benefits that microsoft gets from having a virtual OS monopoly.
It is the whole reason why the browser war started, now on the desktop.
There is a sequence of events from where
Spotlight (Score:2)
From the source above:
Re:Spotlight (Score:2)
Re:Spotlight (Score:2)
DS phone home? (Score:2)
Right.... and wrong (Score:2)
But there is money to be made in desktop search, and we [isys-search.com] and some of our competitors have been doing so for years. The trick is to sell a premium quality product to people who have sufficient need that they're happy to pay a reasonable price for it. Not dumbed-down, feature crippled search software, but a fully-featured, professional, top-shelf product. It's worth paying for, and you know wha
Re:Pimping your product (Score:2)
Yet another "must have" nobody cares about. (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok, Mac guys. How many, show of hands, don't be shy... How many of you don't use Finder to find things? Nobody. Ok...
Windows guys! Ok, I KNOW you'll be interested. Show of hands, who here doesn't use or know about "find files"? Nobody? Come on, SOMEONE in here must need a new search tool. Anybody? Come on, you're killing me here.
Ok, tough audience. I can roll with that.
Alright, let's pretend for a minute that you DIDN'T have a directory/file search tool installed on your computer. That's DID NOT. OK? Now, show of hands. Who here is willing to install my new tool FindYourCrap, for the low low low price of 29.95, with the understanding that I'll have a few ads running from time to time and you have no expectation of privacy, etc, etc, it's all in the EULA.
What? Nobody? Come ON people! I gave you bagels. Doesn't ANYBODY want some of this?
Fine. FINE! You people are pains in the... Ok, look, I'll tell you what, I've got a line on these condos in Florida...
Desktop search added value (Score:1)
Google Desktop for Non-commercial use (Score:2)
Non-commercial Use Only
Google Desktop Search is made available to you for your non-commercial use only. If you want to make commercial use of Google Desktop Search, including but not limited to selling or distributing Google Desktop Search for payment, you must enter into an agreement with Google or obtain Google's written permission in advance.
Therefore, using it in a commercial sense, ie - at you place of work will probably require giving google some money
a foot in the door (Score:2)
Search vendors will make money, don't worry (Score:1)
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