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Data Storage Technology

M-Flash, Yet Another Flash Memory Format 113

Posted by CmdrTaco from the it-remembers-so-you-don't-have-to dept.
Verteiron writes "Despite all the (mostly incompatible) flash memory/card formats out there already, a consortium made up of several Taiwan-based manufacturers are preparing to unveil a new one at the upcoming CeBIT. The memory itself, called M-Flash, will form the backbone of the new M-Card format. According to C-One, a member of the M-Card group and the maker of Pretec brand flash devices, the M-Flash memory architecture is cheap to manufacture and allows for devices 2/3 the size of existing MMC products. The M-Card format uses the USB 2.0 I/O specification, but C-One claims it will transfer data at twice the speed of USB 2.0 while using about a third the power required by current devices. To encourage adoption of the new card format, it has been designed to be compatible with the existing SD/MMC format at reduced speeds. C-One also plans to make the currently proprietary format an open standard. Palm Blvd. and the EE Times (free reg. required) have articles with a few more details."
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M-Flash, Yet Another Flash Memory Format More

M-Flash, Yet Another Flash Memory Format

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  • It's so nice to see the plethora of existing formats converging into a single standard.

    Not

    Sigh

    • Re:Convergence (Score:3, Informative)

      by realdpk ( 116490 )
      "To encourage adoption of the new card format, it has been designed to be compatible with the existing SD/MMC format at reduced speeds."

      Seems pretty good to me. Not exactly one single standard (there's still Sony's MemoryStick and I think CF might still be in use somewhere), but nice to see it would still work with at least two existing memory standards.

      • Re:Convergence (Score:3, Informative)

        by Zocalo ( 252965 )
        CompactFlash is still very much around and unlikely to go anywhere soon because of its dominance in the high end digital camera sector. As far as I am aware it's still the smallest removable media format that you can get a Microdrive in. Secondly, it has consistently offered the highest available storage capacity in a single card - up to 12GB [dpreview.com] (so far) if you have the cash. Even if you could afford it, whether you would actually want to trust 12GB of data to a single card is another matter of course.
        • 12GB is about enough for an hour of DV footage - roughly the same capacity as a MiniDV tape. Once these are £5 I imagine they will be incredibly popular. At the moment they're just a little too pricey (but hey, I remember paying £30 for a 128K flash card not so long ago).
      • I think CF might still be in use somewhere


        Digital cameras. Particularly high-end prosumer and professional digital cameras. Canon EOS 20D, EOS 1Ds Mk II, Nikon D70, D2X, etc.
    • Well, you know, the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. :-)

  • Aaaargh (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cyberfunk2 ( 656339 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:11PM (#11520706)
    Not ANOTHER format.. now i'll need to buy a 7-way-card reader instead of the currenet 6-way beasts of devices companies put out.

    Cant we all play nice ???
  • >Despite all the (mostly incompatible) flash memory/card formats out there already

    Yet another of in a long series of illiterate articles. Not everyone was born to be a writer, but illiterate individuals should observe utmost care when submitting articles.

    http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/illite ra te

  • Open Standards and Compatibility are A GOOD THING. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Total_Wimp ( 564548 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:17PM (#11520759)
    I was pretty sceptical 'till I got to that part. This seems like a well thought out product all the way around.

    TW

  • The incredible shrinking flashcard (Score:5, Interesting)

    by John Jorsett ( 171560 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:19PM (#11520767)
    the M-Flash memory architecture is cheap to manufacture and allows for devices 2/3 the size of existing MMC products

    I don't know how other people feel about this, but for me, the Secure Digital format is pretty close to being as small as I want to get. I don't want to have to use tweezers to get my memory into and out of devices.

    • I don't know how other people feel about this, but for me, the Secure Digital format is pretty close to being as small as I want to get. I don't want to have to use tweezers to get my memory into and out of devices.

      It's not as bad as all that. I use mini-SD in my cell phone and it's actually pretty nice to have the smaller size. I know it sounds bizzare, but SD cards look so big to me now. It's kind of like looking back at one of those Motorola flip phones we all thought were so small at the time.

      TW
    • Think "Same Size" more on the chip, instead of smaller. Now does it sound better?
    • I don't know how other people feel about this, but for me, the Secure Digital format is pretty close to being as small as I want to get. I don't want to have to use tweezers to get my memory into and out of devices.

      For me, it's CompactFlash. Maybe that's just the one I imprinted with, but to me the SD cards look so skinny I'm afraid of them getting bent too easily.

      CF cards have a nice, solid feel to them. I don't feel afraid to toss one onto my desk lest it get broken or lost, yet you can still fit p

      • I dunno, CF cards feel cheap and plasticky to me.

        All a matter of taste I suppose.

        SD cards are my favorite, especially that one SanDisk (I think) is supposed to be coming out with next month that's a combo SD/USB drive. Really slick.
      • For me, it's CompactFlash. Maybe that's just the one I imprinted with, but to me the SD cards look so skinny I'm afraid of them getting bent too easily.

        CF cards have a nice, solid feel to them. I don't feel afraid to toss one onto my desk lest it get broken or lost, yet you can still fit plenty of them in your pocket at once.

        Same here. I like CF, and feel like I'd probably drop anything smaller. Especially if I want to take pictures outside when it's cold.

        Tim

      • Had a dog chew on a CF card. Found it dirty on the floor with obvious teeth marks in the corner. And it still worked. At least it was only a 16MB freebie.

        Id like to see any of those exposed terminal plate cards taking even remotely the same beating.
    • "I don't know how other people feel about this, but for me, the Secure Digital format is pretty close to being as small as I want to get. I don't want to have to use tweezers to get my memory into and out of devices."

      Yes, but the average taiwanese guy is about 2/3 the size of your average american, so there you are.
    • I think SD cards are a bit too small also, except maybe in the use of cellphones. What is so wrong with compact flash? If they are going to keep decreasing the size of the memory cards, we won't have any increases in capacity. I for one would rather have a 8GB CF memory card in my camera, than a 512MB fingertip sized memory card.

      And Sony, please stop already trying to produce your proprietary memory cards. No one cares about your cards and you are frustrating consumers.
      • Plus most CompactFlash cards have metal in the casing to make it more rigid, and the edges are plastic welded together instead of glued. If you put an SD card in the sun the two sides seperate and you have to glue them back together. No such problems with CF.

      • CF is a parrallell interface that's effectively a miniaturized ISA slot. While the CF cards themselves aren't very big ... the connectors are HUGE!!!!

        Memory transfer rates on CF cards are limited. So as media sizes increase, the devices themselves will become an impedement to video and floppy replacement applications.

        I expect that we'll eventually see a CF replacement (still capable of housing a micro-drive) based on PCI Express.

        Sony seems to be doing just fine with it's card. It's a proprietary forma
    • not only that, there is already the miniSD format for phones etc.

  • Current list of formats (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:21PM (#11520783)
    - Smart Media Card
    - XD Card
    - Compact Flash I
    - Compact Flash II
    - Micro Drive
    - Secure Digital
    - MMC card
    - MMC II card
    - RS-MMC card
    - Memory Stick card
    - MS Pro
    - MS MG Card
    - MS MG Pro Card
    - MS Duo
    - MS MG Duo
    - MS Pro Duo
    - MS MG Pro Duo
    - UTMA Fish Card

    aren't standards great
    just as long as it's MY standard of course
    • Yes, and all the Memory Stick formats are only used by Sony, XD is only used by Olympus and Fuji, Smart Media isn't used by anyone (except me, I have an old Olympus camera), CompactFlash and Micro Drive are compatible, Secure Digital and MMC are compatible. UTMA I've never heard of. That narrows it down quite a bit:

      Memory Stick
      CF/MD
      SD/MMC
      XD

      Two of which, CF/MD and SD/MMC, were used by the vast majority of cameras and other devices last time I checked.
      • I have the Fuji S7000, it allows tho use of xD cards up to 512meg and at the same time allows me to use CF cards Type 1 and 2. 3 Formats for my camera! I still need a card reader however, my dad's camera uses SD, doh!
      • Secure Digital and MMC are compatible

        Actually, no. SD and MMC are completely incompatible. Their physical formfactors are different, even (SD is thicker). SD has more pins than MMC also (SD has 11, MMC 9). And they're from two different groups, too (MMC and SD Association, I believe). And yes, the command sets are different - the controller sends an invalid MMC command (but valid SD) to check if there's an SD card present.

        The only reason they call it an SD/MMC slot is because the SD association made it a

    • Re:Current list of formats (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Dont forget TransFlash

      128mb the in less than 1cm squared in my phone :) ...but id rather see 10Gb solid state memory and a real operating system on a usable device than another nock off memory format. People really need to stop buying this sort of thing and then they wouldnt make it
    • The problem with that listing is that you are listing all sub-variants even if they are compatible. Memory Stick is Memory Stick to me. I don't see the point in listing the "Pro" as that is mostly a speed rating than anything else, it doesn't change the interface or physical spec that I know about.

      Compact Flash II and Microdrive are basically the same form factor and interface, only the storage means is different, and IIRC, isn't relevant from the device point of view.

      I would call Smart Media a dead-end

  • Stop complaining! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by lemonylimey ( 745130 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:22PM (#11520792)
    With digicams heading towards 14 megapixels, I can see the need for faster data storage (ever waited for a 60mb RAW file to save to a CF card?), and introducing something that combines backwards compatibilty with SD/MMC cards and native USB2.0 support (No more card readers, just an adaptor cable, or possibly even a set of built-in contacts like the new SD/USB cards.) seems like a suspiciously common-sense approach.
    • The Canon EOS 1Ds MkII is a 17 megapixel camera. But there are also cameras out there which are way past that, they are 22 megapixels (they are digital backs however). www.phaseone.com

    • For professional cameras, you may see the smaller Expresscard interface. Those big hulks are big enough to support the "stick".

      Either this, or you will see a local wireless network where storage is worn in a bag or on a belt, the camera has enough fast memory to cache the images while they're being transferred.

  • I find it interesting that C-One compares the size of this card to the MM card. It almsot seems like the death knell is sounding already. MMC died, this has no backing from popular, trusted media manufactures (Pretec....did you ever buy anything made by them? I've never even seen them around here before). I mean, who cares if it's great, if it doesn't have the backing to bring it to the mainstream market? It's going to take one big format endorsed by all media manufactures, all camera makers, and all digita
    • The Pretec brandname has been around for a while and their products are often found at the leading edge of memory technology rather than the mainstream. I guess there is money to be made in targetting the niche sector that *really* needs high capacities in single cards like the 12GB CompactFlash [dpreview.com] card that they make. As the linked article says, you could get the same amount of storage in three cards for a tenth of the price, but if you have no choice...

  • converged memories (Score:3, Informative)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:26PM (#11520818) Homepage Journal
    I'm generally happy with the convergence of these flash devices with one another. It looks like we'll eventually have two: USB and MMC - this MFlash does both. CompactFlash sockets can be filled with CF/MMC adapters. With the exception of the Sony (proprietary) Memory Stick - though Sony has started including both CF and MS sockets in top of the line gear, like their F-818 camera. Sony should release a CF MemoryStick socket. If eventually the Flash formats settle down the way floppy media formats did in the 1980s, we'll all benefit from the defragmented markets, economies of unified scale, and interop.
    • That might be hard, as Memory Sticks and Memory Stick Pro cards are longer than CF cards any way you look at it, so the memory stick would stick 1/2" (about 1 cm) out of the card slot. Not to mention that everyone uses a different transfer protocol, so they would have to design, build, and power through CF a MS to PIO converter.
      • Manufacturers don't seem to have a problem with the cards sticking out of the adapters. None of these formats require force on the outer end to mount the cards, so they don't need to be enclosed (though it keeps them cleaner - a generous capacity at the end with a spring or foam would work). A MS/PIO ASIC, powered by the CF port, sounds like a $25 one-shot adapter purchase. And profitable, too, as everyone holding incompatible memory types converges with that tool.

  • sd card compatibility (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sometwo ( 53041 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:32PM (#11520855)
    The palm boulevard article says special drivers maybe needed for existing sd card readers. I guess this won't be working in my digital camera anytime soon.

    Also I think it's pronounced Micro-card.

  • Yet Another Single-Letter Prefix (Score:3, Funny)

    by ChipMonk ( 711367 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @12:33PM (#11520867) Journal
    In related news, Motorola sued several Taiwan-based manufacturers for using the prefix "M-". Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple, was heard to say, "What do we care? We use 'i', not 'M-'."
  • Competition is good...
    All the current flash memory is pretty much the some. If M-flash will be everything it promises to be it should cause a drop in costs of flash storage.
    • I just bought a Toshiba 512M SD card for $35 out the door (ok I had a $15 coupon, it was $50 to start) and I still haven't decided if I will send in the $20 Mail In Rebate ... bringing the net cost for a 512M SD card down to about $15. How much cheaper can it get?

      Oh yea, no fair quoting me on that last line a decade from now ala '640k ought to be enough for anybody'.

  • ...now run Linux from it and I'll be happy.

    Seriously, it does suck that so many formats exist. <pun>At least hard drive formats aren't so fragmented yet.</pun>

  • eh ? (Score:4, Informative)

    by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @01:05PM (#11521074) Journal
    it will transfer data at twice the speed of USB 2.0

    Is that even possible ? Would any properly certified USB host-controller not be limited to USB2 speeds, unless they also force you to buy a PCI card that is M-whatever compatible ?
    • They didn't say it would do so over USB, just over it;s own bus. When connected (via adapter) to USB, it would be limited by that bus speed.
    • I'm thinking that, while the USB controllers in PC's won't be able to read and write at 960Mb/s, hopefully the card writers built into cameras don't need to be so standards-based. Who needs a buffer if the camera can write to the card as fast as you can take pictures?

  • Smaller AGAIN? (Score:5, Funny)

    by zerocircle ( 559005 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @01:05PM (#11521078)
    2/3 the size of existing formats? Do we need this? We're already in danger of accidentally inhaling these things or losing them between the ridges of our fingerprints. Jeez, I must have a terabyte lodged in various spots, slowly sloughing off with the dust.

  • The best thing about standards ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Vollernurd ( 232458 ) on Sunday January 30, 2005 @01:09PM (#11521101)
    ... is that there's so many of them. Ack.

  • and allows for devices 2/3 the size of existing MMC products...it has been designed to be compatible with the existing SD/MMC format at reduced speeds.

    I presume we won't see the improvements in device size until they drop the MMC backwards-compatibility.
  • Marketing firm A-Name announces the trendiest product or company naming sceme of 2005 is going to be a letter prepended to a single syllable.

  • aka (Score:1)

    by UnRDJ ( 712762 )
    YAFMF
  • I-Think this new T-Mark F-Mat is F-King Stoo-Pid.
  • Some interesting lessons here in standards one pays for.

    You'll all remember the cell phone wars. While the rest of world used GSM, american carriers, looking for a competitive advantage and patent royalities, and certainly unwilling to pay royalties to their competitors, got going with CDMA and TDMA to name a few of the schemes. While technically superior perhaps, one ends up with a fragemented market. What's interesting to see is the recent moves to GSM even in the US.

    Memory cards, the same thing. If the

    • CDMA is a superior tech to GSM, and yet GSM networks seem to work so much better than CDMA.

      Can anyone explain why that is?
      • Assume you have a superior tech, but only a few providers can use it. So you have better tech, but it's only in 40% of possible cell sites.

        Then you have the inferior tech, but it is in 80% of possible cell sites. The perceived performance of the inferior tech starts to look pretty good.

        CDMA is technically superior, but GSM has got something like a million users. Worldwide, if you traveled, you would likely be able to use your same GSM phone in Europe, but your CDMA phone wouldn't get much coverage.

    • The ONLY memory format that is open is Compact Flash. Sony is JUST LIKE everybody else.

  • I'm not expecting to see m-flash in cameras or pdas anythime soon, but they may appear in DOKs (Disk On Key) very soon. For greatest compatibility, the USB interface would have to be compatible with the generic driver that windows/linux/macs use. Additionally, I'm not sure if they will have on-chip ESD and pad drivers necessary for driving cables (significant external components may still be neccessary).

    If they were twice as fast as the present DOKs (12MByte/s reads? 10MByte/s writes), that would allow the
  • Old news, I got my M-Card from the University of Michigan years ago...

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