Windows Longhorn Beta for June Release 460
An Anonymous Reader writes "According to CNET, the Windows Longhorn Beta 1 is supposedly set for release this June. The Register has commentary on the delays the new OS has faced." From the article: "Longhorn was originally supposed to ship in 2004. In May, this year release was pushed back to 2005. This week Longhorn's availability has been delayed even further, with Microsoft execs declining to say when exactly the operating system might ship, eWeek reports."
Credibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Credibility (Score:5, Informative)
The 4 month beta deadline, maybe? All previous announcements have been almost a year ahead of time.
Re:Credibility (Score:5, Funny)
Heck, Cairo was announced, what? 14 years ago? Longhorn was the new Cairo, now delayed to Blackcomb, as "Cairo" wasn't getting any more press. After all, "we're writing about Cairo again?
Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Database-driven filesystems are sorta like nuclear fusion.
Marketing time to release is a constant in the range of 10-15 units of time. Actual time to release is the same -- but you use the next higher unit.
That is, WinFS has been 6-12 months away for about 15 years, and fusion power has been about 5-10 years away for at least the past 5 decades.
Re:Credibility (Score:2, Insightful)
We know Fusion can work, but politicians are not committed to the longterm economy.
WinFS on the other hand is a marketting thing and not a science. Its arrival is as late as possible to slow the pa
Re:Credibility (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Credibility (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Credibility (Score:2)
Re:Credibility (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Credibility (Score:2)
Agreed. I woudln't be surprised if they had the beta out by june. Of couse Windows XP 64 for AMD64 processors has been in beta for how long and we still haven't seen it hit the shelves?
I'm not really sure it should be news if the beta DOES come out by June... final product still won't c
Re:Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Simply put, the shipping date approaches zero as the number of new features approaches zero.
No Credibility. I have the Alpha. (Score:3, Informative)
It's not near ready for Beta yet...
The future of Windows (Score:3, Interesting)
"Longhorn will be released next year. It has always been planned to be released next year."
Much like the war in Orwell's 1984, Windows will never be complete. It's been a long time since the last major overhaul. Maybe they need to just make Windows a perpetual upgrade. Each release will have a major component update.
Windows XP: Unified Home/Pro editions
Longhorn: Avalon & Indigo
Blackcomb: WinFS
Now that Windows is `for the most part` on a standardized framework (.NET), they should be able to just release updates based on this framework, whether it be for current major release or retroactively. If you need some component installed, just make sure it's prereq's are there. Oh wait - this sounds a lot like Linux.
Yes? No? Who the hell cares?
Re:The future of Windows (Score:5, Funny)
We tried that. It was called DLL Hell.
Re:The future of Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll withhold judgement on Longhorn until I get to play with it. Maybe the changes will be worth the money to upgrade, maybe not. Maybe the graphics will look cheesy (a la XP) and maybe not. Either way, my Slackware box will fill the balance. I think an open mind is a good thing here.
That said, I can foresee (via the Slashdot palantir) a lot of people looking at their screens and wonering if all years of hype and buildup really just produced this. Think Doom 3 here: Yeah, it was entertaining, but it wasn't worth all the years of salivating and my $50.
Re:The future of Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
Irokitt, I like your thinking. You have a suprisingly opened mind, which is something truely refreshing here on Slashdot. I have to agree that with all the hype built up over several years, will it truely be worth it? As a developer coming from a programming s
Re:The future of Windows (Score:3, Funny)
You were expecting a beta release to be fine-tuned for performance?
Re:The future of Windows (Score:2, Insightful)
Sort of like Debain:
I like it. GNU/Debian/Windows
Re:The future of Windows (Score:3, Funny)
We could solve all the world's energy problems if we could just hook Orwell's corpse up to a generator to capture all the rotational energy that's currently being wasted on postmortem outrage.
Re:The future of Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
No, 1984 is not "one of the most important books ever written," unless you expand your list to include tens of thousands of books. It's just that it's a book that's widely assigned to high-school students. It's pop-culture wisdom, a mile wide and an inch deep. It's the beginning of insight, n
Re:The future of Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
First off the correct (IMHO) bits:
Somebody who reads 1984 and thinks that he then has something insightful to say about language or society is like somebody who reads Beat to Quarters and thinks that he then can sail a tall ship around Cape Horn.
Well, of course. I'm not sure that you're making a non-obvious point here, but ok. Of course, someone might read 1984 and then have something insightful to say about language or society... but that's no more or less likely than reading it and having something insightful to say about 20th century authors.
No, 1984 is not "one of the most important books ever written," unless you expand your list to include tens of thousands of books
Obviously you are just as correct as the grandparent who claimed the opposite. This is purely a matter of opinion, unless you're going to assign a quantitative definition to "most important books".
Too many people point to 1984 as an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism
Here you lose me. It's not that this might not be a valid statement, but you place it in the center of a response to a post which makes no such claim. Thus, this can only be catagorized as a strawman.
However, to take up the challenge, I'll argue that 1984 is not an illustration of the insidiousness of totalitarianism, but rather a illustration of the abstract nature of totalitarianism and the ability for the average member of such a society to lie to themselves about the choices they are making.
Of course, we see this sort of book all the time, just not always about politics. Books about women who persist in abusive relationships, criminals who look in the mirror and see a hero, and any number of other common themes are all expressions of this. 1984 simply happens to be one example of this sub-genre where the average reader tends to "get it".
Does 1984 beg the question of the insidiousness of totalitarianism? I don't think so. It shows us what the author thinks people are capable of, lets the readers own sense of the human condition demonstrate its truth. Most of us on reading 1984 come away a bit frightened. Not all of us realize why, but years after reading it, I realized that it was because nothing in the book was terribly difficult to imagine. People DO behave this way, and it's important for us to come to terms with that.
Now, you can say that 1984 isn't important, but here's why I think it was: it opened up a dialog that we had with each other. Many other books have been written since -- some scholarly, some novels like 1984 -- but all further exploring this theme. Certainly philosophers had beat the idea of man's inhumanity to man around for a long time, but Orwell brought a language in which to frame the discussion to the common man, and in this I think we can rightly say that he was an important and influential author.
By way of exmample, Asimov and Feynman didn't write the General and Specifc theories of relativity, but each of them produced clear, understandable and engaging information for people outside of the field that gave us the tools to intelligently disucss these complicated matters. This, in many ways, is just as important a step as introducing the concept to the scientific community.
So, I'll put 1984 somewhere on that list of yours, but I suspect that I'm placing it quite a lot higher than you are.
Re:The future of Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
No. Instead, I think that it very likely prevented at least some non-totalitarian states from moving in that direction.
Countries don't just slip into totalitarianism
Sure they do. A leader with dictatorial tendencies gets voted into office, then starts changing the laws to increase his powers and decrease checks and balances. It has happened dozens of times, including Germany in the 1930s.
Benefit of new Linux development method (Score:2)
Strange that no one seem to mention the benefits of the new Linux kernel development model, when the Windows vs Linux debade is brpought up.
The 3 years of development has now disappered (for now) meaning that on average Linux has gained something like 1.5-2.0 years on its competitors.
This in addition to being on a much faster improvement trajectory than the Windows / *nix.
Apple is somewhere in between as they release somewhat often pretty much when they have e
June.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:June.... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Pay no attention... (Score:2, Interesting)
Hopefully Tiger will appear sooner than currently expected, to prevent this.
Re:June.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)
At a recent university talk, Gates claimed that the only OSes that would be around in 10 years would be Windows and Linux. Now that could simply be a snub to Jobs, or it could indicate that he doesn't even consider Mac to be on the radar anymore. With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential in both the predominantly Windows consumer market, or Windows/Linux enterprise market.
The ironic thing is, that if Mac OS X *were* to be around in 10 years, Microsoft would likely to be making far more money off it than if it disappeared. Why? The high gross margins (80+%) from Office mean that Microsoft often makes more money from a Mac bought with Office than Apple does (the gross margin on a Mac is 20+%).
With only Linux as an alternative OS, Microsoft would likely make nothing, unless Microsoft plans to start selling software for Linux...
Personally I think Microsoft does actually pay attention to Apple and uses them as a sort of free R&D lab. However, publicly, Gates seems to deny they're relevant now, and not at all in the future.
Interesting...
Re:I wonder... (Score:5, Interesting)
Check your figures again, please. There's no definition of "market share," either percent-of-sales-per-unit-time or percent-of-total-installed-base, for which that statement could be true. IDC consistently puts Apple around 4%, with an installed base set to exceed 40 million units during the first half of this year. (There are rumors that IDC's next projection is going to uptick sharply on the strength of the Mac mini.)
When you're talking about a market valued in the tens of billions, the difference between "less than 2%" and the actual figure of four percent is huge.
OS X makes Windows look bad (Score:4, Insightful)
I would certainly think so, because OS X shows people what can be done with computers -- it shows them that viruses, trojans, and other malware aren't acts of God, but a preventable result of bad technology; that computers don't have to crash; that drag'n drop can do so much more; that Plug and Play can be more than an empty marketing slogan; and finally that computers can actually look cool. In short, Apple makes Windows machines look bad by comparison, and with the iPod and Mac mini actually penetrating the mainstream, this can't be good for Microsoft.
Futhermore, I think your comment
With less than 2% marketshare, Mac OS X is pretty much inconsequential in both the predominantly Windows consumer market, or Windows/Linux enterprise market.
shows a widespread but flawed view of the computer world: Market share is all that matters. In fact, look at Porsche: Pissy market share, but great cars and -- more important -- great financial performance of the company. Apple's stock is doing just fine, thank you, while Microsoft's is starting to underperform to the point where they are now paying dividend. Comparing Microsoft to Apple makes just as little sense as comparing GM to Porsche and then saying that Porsche is hopeless because they don't have a large percentage of the mass-market.
In fact, at least up to the Mac mini, that was exactly the point.
Re:OS X makes Windows look bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Good design is good design.
Software, hardware, cars, typefaces, guns, knives, tools, chairs, buildings, bridges, watches -- you name it.
Apple just happens to be the only personal computer maker with a significant investment in good design. Of course they will draw comparisons to makers in other industries with similar investments in good design.
Getting back to mark
Tiger's punch was last year... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:June.... (Score:2)
Beating Apple to the punch (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure Microsoft isn't going to say a word about Tiger, but my guess is they're no longer considering Apple the 98-lb.
hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Hello? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hello? (Score:5, Funny)
Hello.jpg? Try Giver. (Score:5, Funny)
* shudder *
Re:Hello? (Score:5, Informative)
In actuality it is the name of a bar in British Columbia.
XP, aka Whistler, is the name of a mountain, as is Blackcomb... the bar longhorn is in the middle of the two.
Product Cycle:
XP (Whistler)
Longhorn
Blackcomb
Timed to steal Tiger's thunder? (Score:4, Insightful)
Release bump (Score:2)
...please don't (Score:5, Funny)
Re:...please don't (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, you said that to DISCOURAGE DNF jokes? My bad.
Shorthorn? (Score:2)
Re:Shorthorn? (Score:5, Interesting)
How about Longhorn being the "browserless OS?" If they hold true to that it means we'll probably be even more vulnerable to IE exploits--like hijacking our desktop background instead of just our browser homepage.
I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't redesign their product to focus on 3 things: the kernel, the GUI, and the rest of the apps they ship with Windows.
The one thing I love about Linux is the fact that the kernel is almost always stable. It rarely crashes. (with the exception of the use of alpha-release drivers or bad system memory) Yes, X may sprout some problems eventually but it doesn't take the whole system down.
The other thing they need to do is stop integrating software into the OS. I can't stress this enough. I don't want to have to worry about my entire OS being vulnerable because IE has been integrated into every possible aspect of my GUI. Keep it simple, keep it segmented in modules.
If they could ship an OS that had a rock-solid kernel, with a nice GUI shipped with it, and a few apps (IE, OE, etc) shipped as extras on the cd/dvd then I think they would finally have a worthy product on their hands.
Re:Shorthorn? (Score:2)
What has been cut? WinFS from the initial release, sure, cry me a river. But Avalon, Indigo, the new WinFX API, NGSCB, 64 bit support, just to name a few, are all still scheduled to make the final cut.
screenshots (Score:2, Informative)
Re:screenshots (Score:2)
A couple near the bottom of the GIS in the parent are actual Longhorn screenshots: Here [foruminsider.com] and Here [activewin.com]
Re:screenshots (Score:2)
Re:screenshots (Score:2)
*hits F9 in Panther and grins*
Re:screenshots (Score:2)
Rumor has it... (Score:4, Funny)
Proof. (Score:2, Funny)
It's not their fault, OK? (Score:2, Funny)
Is there any wonder that it is taking longer than expected?
Re:It's not their fault, OK? (Score:2)
Open Source Innovation (Score:2, Interesting)
My gut feeling is that Longhorn will knock the socks off whatever is out there at the time, unless developers really plan ahead, and come up with innovative features etc.
Some would say the pendulum is swinging towards Open Source on the desktop at the moment, but I worry that Longhorn could stop that in its tracks.
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2)
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2)
Let me think on this........hmmm.....no.
XP (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:XP (Score:2)
Re:XP (Score:2)
Re:XP (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:XP (Score:2)
Re:XP (Score:2)
So if you're happy with 2k I strongly suggest you never agree to use an XP box for an extended period of time (say, at your work) cause yo
Re:XP (Score:3, Informative)
Me neither -- I'm still running Win2K at home quite happily too. However, it's worth noting that Microsoft has at least one potential "show stopper" in the works for us: according to Microsoft's Windows lifecycle roadmap [microsoft.com], "mainstream support" for Windows 2000 Professional will be discontinued on June 30 of this year. After that date only "extended support" will be available (through 2010).
What's t
Re:XP (Score:3, Interesting)
The interface, called "Aero Glass" (I don't supposed that means it will have shiny highlights on the tops of the widgets, does it? Been there, done that), is supposed to be full 3D-accelerated DirectX visua
You miss the point (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, the point of Longhorn is, with Indigo and Avalon, to make it easier to develop cool new stuff. Then more cool new stuff gets written for Windows, and so more people buy Windows.
Want to pre-empt Longhorn? Make some slick open-source developer tools for XML-based user interfaces (can't remember the X-acronym at the moment - XUL or XAML or some such) and web s
APT? (Score:2)
Hey, Microsoft is ripping off APT!
Re:APT? (Score:3, Funny)
It's pronounced "Longhaul" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's pronounced "Longhaul" (Score:4, Informative)
the register story is old (Score:3, Funny)
Yippee!!!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
My most recent hand-me-downs were from guys updating graphics cards for doom3 and HL2.
Longhorn vs. Sarge? (Score:2)
Longhorn or Sarge?
Of course, Sarge as it is is already relatively stable and bug free (I had an uptime of 35 days before rebooting to use a new kernel); while I bet that Longhorn will have lots of problems for at least the first six months.
Blizzard vs. Microsoft (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, maybe it's because Windows still won't be ready when it's shipped...
Re:Blizzard vs. Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
And people who've bought the three year subscription 'upgrades free' licences feel like mugs because they listened to microsoft PR and got nothing out of it.
Stranger things have happened (Score:2)
The NEW Malabu Stacy... NOW WITH A HAT! (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess Microsoft's sales of Malabu Stacys (Windows) is slowing. I guess it is time for them to release a new version "NOW WITH A HAT"
"(Burns) Hello Smithers, you're quite good at turning me on" - Smithers' computer
"(Gates) Hello Steve, you're quite good at turning *Windows NT GPF*" - Steve Balmer's computer
Uh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft delays Longhorn. Again
By John Leyden
Published Tuesday 2nd September 2003 10:55 GMT
Replacement for SWF, and its implications for Mono (Score:2, Interesting)
This makes me wonder regarding the status for System.Windows.Forms in Longhorn. Is System.Windows.Forms still the recommended GUI-framework in Longhorn? Is the release of its replacement post-poned?
Misleading Summary (Score:5, Informative)
Upgrading (Score:2)
Can't wait. :-) (Score:5, Funny)
Marketware (Score:2)
Antivirus Included? (Score:2)
If they're having trouble finding a "gee whiz" selling point to entice buyers to the new system, this might be it. It would also be a good answer to the pirates - a solid reason why your OS would phone home and reactivate itself every few hours.
In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
Disingenuous quoting of el Reg (Score:3, Insightful)
Preview of Longhorn (Score:4, Insightful)
A rather thorough documentation of the future featureset is available
here [apple.com].
Re:Slightly off topic, but... (Score:2, Informative)
It's the name of a saloon in Whistler [whistlerblackcomb.com] (a ski resort in Canada), positioned between the Whistler and Blackcomb mountains. Both Whistler and Blackcomb have also been used as code names for various versions of Windows.
Re:A Hurd of Longhorn! (Score:2)
Longhorn, it's what's for dinner.
Re:A Lornhorn in from Redmond on the desktop (Score:2)
That does not compute!
Re:Will it be bloaty??? (Score:2)
Re:Release Dates (Score:3, Insightful)
Right, that's why they've dropped WinFS from the feature list. Again. [com.com] What is this, the third Windows version that was supposed to have it?
~Philly
Re:Nothing to pull people away from the web (Score:3, Insightful)
Does there need to be? Seems like the majority of commercial software vendors already only develop for windows. Of course it's not going to convince the current exceptions (Adobe, Oracle, IBM) but then nothing short of a gun to the heads of the CEO's of those companies COULD convince them.
As it is, I look at all of the people who have written applications to
Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to (Score:4, Interesting)
Hi Mr. Troll...have some food:
1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.
Good idea...let's call them shared libraries. They can handle all the functions that a modern program will need. We'll put them in a central location, like a "lib" folder, and then release their header files in a "devel" (short for developer) package. This means that any program writer will be able to see exactly what functions he needs to use. We'll also put all our trust in the security of one developer, and forget security as our responsibility.
2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine.... What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.
That's right...those damn communists will have to develop SVG Icons [freshmeat.net] to compete.
3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.
Because we all know that a new UI is far more important than stability, performance, security, ease of use, scalability, compatibility, ease of development, and speed of patch releases...right? Then again, maybe changing to a 3d environment will make it easier for new users, after all, computers haven't been using 2d interfaces for the last 20-some years, right?
Your webapps will actually run sandboxed
Just like, oh, I don't know...Java? Wait... Kind of like applets, but the entire webapp will be built out of them.... oh...I get it, just like a whole Java application. Got it. Silly me, I thought Java was only for applets...
Just think about the possibilities there.Wait! I've heard this before... the possibility is ActiveX...seamless integration of pr0n toolbars^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H client and server, huh?
web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade).
Standard...oh yeah, like TCP/IP, SSL, SSH, Telnet, UDP, and all those other standards...(too many to list)
The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies
Yeah...clicking the icon for Synaptic was getting to be a pain in the ass. I also got pretty tired of having several gigs worth of...well, all the programs I need...included on the installation disks.
Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.
Yeah, let's see how many DLL's we can cram into the system32 folder, eh? Until DLL's are gone (ahem...notafuckingchanceinhell...ahem), there will still be DLL hell.
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks.
Are you out of your fucking mind? MS copied Fisher-Price, not vice versa...
It's time to start copying Longhorn.
You know, you're right...let's copy a product that has to have a final specifications sheet, or even a concrete release date. Even better, let's copy our own innovations.
Now that the troll's full, I may as well poke it a bit:
That was by far one of the most uneducated, poorly cocnceived fanboy responses that I have ever read. Even people like Dvorak and Thurrot take more time to look at the status quo before proclaiming innovation.
Cheers,
-maztuh
Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to (Score:4, Insightful)
"Managed APIs". I can see where this is going already.
2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.
Gnome/KDE already support SVG. So gnome/kde have scalable fonts/icons.. right now, today. Not only that but work is already being done in this respect http://cairographics.org/introduction [cairographics.org].
3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.
PARA DIG EM! Yeah.. when I wanna be wowed by UI i'll use Enlightenement or OSX. Suprisingly nothing from Microsoft has ever impressed me in that department. I mean, the screenshots I've seen of gnome/kde/enlightenment/osx/xfce. Microsoft needs to hire new UI designers.. I mean, seriously.
4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed
Mozilla and XML. Thats what Mozilla is all about. Your webapps will actually run regular ole XML on your machine. Kind of like google mail, but the entire webapp will be built out of them. I'm living in the present by the way.. Just incase you were wondering.
5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.
Reliable Web Services? Web service protocol? So whats that called? HTMP? is that going to be ontop of HTTP? Making it more reliable and supported worldwide (after everyone switches from HTTP). Bet my ass i'll upgrade for a protocol, just like when I upgraded for ftp!
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.
What you say?! Stop copying XP and start copying Longhorn?! Why my lad, you can't copy what doesn't exist.
Seriously though, I hate Microsoft and if they had anything genuinely original coming out in Longhorn i'd probably be interested. Especially if it's good technology. To date, i'm hearing about stuff people have either already implemented or wrote about. Things that have been discussed by numerous people over the years. The innovation isn't happening at Microsoft, it's happening elsewhere. It's not even an attractive company to work for nowadays and i'd be hard pressed to say they've ever invented anything original.
I mean, if I wanted to do original shit i'd have to go to work for anyone other than Microsoft.
Copy OS X, not Longhorn (Score:3, Interesting)
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.
should be modified to It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying OS X. Unfortunately, nobody from KDE or Gnome seems to real
Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to (Score:5, Insightful)
I call bullshit. 10 times easier to develop/faster - I think not. And managed APIs whilst they may reduce the incidents of buffer overflows will not automagically solve your security problems. The fact is
2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.
And who are going to be buying these new 200+ DPI machines ? I surely doubt the ordinary user is going to find a need to view their word documents in super high quality. So do explain what is going to be the driver of these displays ?
3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.
Completely new ? And what lose the ability of their installed base to jump right in and use the system. What about the significant investments in training done by companies ? The fact is Longhorn will be 95% identical to Windows XP simply because it has to be. If it isn't and businesses have to invest serious money in retraining staff, then why not retrain them in how to use Linux/OpenOffice ?
4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed
Whilst your thinking about the possibilities, some of us are actually implementing it. Java/Flash are already heavily used and Google is only just showing [google.com] that JS/DHTML can be used to do amazing stuff. And they all work cross-platform.
The fact is developers can't target XAML so long as they have they have a significant number of end users that are running Windows 95/98/Linux/Mac/Firefox etc etc.
5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.
Web Services like CORBA is a developer's technology. Most end users won't know what web services is and why it is useful. You've been drinking the Microsoft kool-aid if you think end users are going to upgrade because of it. And Web Services works just as well on other platforms as well you know [sun.com]. Some even require little to no programming [apple.com].
The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies. That's where the real strength of this all is. Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.
Bzzt. Except that when Longhorn comes out your going to have a even more fragmented Windows market (95/98/XP/Longhorn). Which means that as a developer you want to use the technology that will target the most number of platforms i.e. Win32. This is a huge problem for Microsoft and is why more Longhorn technologes are being backported to XP.
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.
WRONG. It is time for Linux to start making itself more and more interoperable with Windows XP. To the point where businesses will sidegrad
Re:The next two years, will be the last chance to (Score:4, Interesting)
I hope MS will be far ahead of WinXP with LH, because the polished Linux desktops were released in 2001 (the time I switched, as WinXP had become unusable when compared to a Gnome or KDE desktop), and are gradually improving ever since.
When Longhorn comes out, Microsoft, and folks who develop for Windows, will surge ahead REALLY fast.
Here's why:
1. The entire OS will be accessible through a set of managed APIs. This makes coding 10 times easier and faster, and raises productivity to unprecedented levels. This also makes buffer overflows and some other security issues a thing of the past.
No clue wishful thinking. I'm not impressed. The Windows architecture is flawed already. No amount of code can fix it. Redesigning Windows (for multiuser and for the internet) would be far better.
2. New, resolution independent, vector based, GPU-enabled UI engine. Two years from Longhorn release people will be buying 200+ DPI displays because things look a lot better on them. What's KDE/Gnome users gonna do? That's right, try to discern tiny non-scalable icons on these displays.
Actually, I started using beautiful scalable (SVG) icons and fonts at worst in 2002 on my Gnome desktop
So, on my 100 dpi 22" monitor (in 1600x1200), the desktop is pretty sharp and the icons and fonts are like they should be, even if I change resolution. I bet it will be the same with 200+ dpi monitors.
3. Completely new UI, including some significant paradigm changes.
Do you mean MS actually invented something ? That will not be a ripoff of Mac OS X, Linux or other desktops ? Now I'm impressed.
I've seen nothing of the kind till now, but I suppose it is secret.
4. Seamless integration of client and server side (that's what XAML is all about, IMHO). Your webapps will actually run sandboxed
I'm a user, I have no need for your webapps. And client and server should not be integrated either, that is nonsense. The server should run the app, not me, so I do not need anything sandboxed. I think of the possibilities for a lot of virus yes.
5. Reliable Web Services - Indigo, web services that don't suck. More importantly, web service protocol that's supported by the majority of computers in the world (when most people upgrade). And you can bet your ass they will upgrade, just like a couple of years after W95 was released almost everyone ran W95.
I fail to understand how you can talk about "web service protocol". What is that, isn't it HTTP ? It is an open protocol, like they all should be on the internet. The internet is not MSN you know, that is a world for everyone, not just for Windows users.
The most important thing is, all of this will be available to Windows users out of the box, without any tweaking/recompiling/downloading dependencies. That's where the real strength of this all is. Developers will be able to rely on this stuff when building next-gen apps and be reasonably sure that if a user runs Longhorn, the app will run there.
Your description looks like what is already present in Windows now : ActiveX, Direct X,
I see no improvement. Will it all be open ? That would be an improvement.
It's time to stop copying Windows XP, folks. It's time to start copying Longhorn. Gnome devs have already realised that.
Who is copying Windows XP or