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BBC Writer Tries PC Repair, Finds Poor Software 703

Posted by timothy from the other-than-that-how-was-the-parade? dept.
twitter writes "BBC author Paul Rubens tried out amateur computer repair and wrote about it. All of the software was for Windows, and he finds what most of us do: "Most of the problems I've been called to look at have been caused by viruses and spyware, some by strange software [conflicts], and only one by faulty hardware." He then flames the whole world of computer repairmen as 'a bunch of unqualified amateurs.'"
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BBC Writer Tries PC Repair, Finds Poor Software More

BBC Writer Tries PC Repair, Finds Poor Software

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  • Close Call (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:47PM (#12068626) Homepage
    Luckily he wasn't trying out the amateur software development.

    If we went by his definition of unqualified amateurs, most OSS developers would have been in the same category, but look what these "unqualified amateurs" have done to OSS?

    • Re:Close Call (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:55PM (#12068726)
      Seriously though, what can you expect from an article written by PeeWee Herman [wikipedia.org]?

      • Re:Close Call (Score:5, Interesting)

        by khrtt ( 701691 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @05:16PM (#12070515)
        I've had to fix about 30 computers last year, and about 10 of them had problems caused by faulty power supplies and failing drives, both hard and optical. Power supplies are particularly nasty when they fail, since they often take other components with them. If you build your own box, rip out the supply that comes with your $40 case, and buy a good one.

        One box was stepped on, resulting in some connectors ripped out of the motherboard, and was partially fixed by soldering them back on.

        The rest of the machines were crippled by malware, which in 70% cases could not be removed automatically and had to be hunted down and exterminated by hand, leaving behind dead pieces of it n many cases. Only one machine had to be reinstalled (I'm sooo good!).

        On all those machines I hid IE from the menus and installed firefox, and explained to the users why they should use it. I've only had two repeat calls so far. Both users were web designers who had to have IE available for work, and also had random relatives and friends using their computers for mail, web and itunes. Can't help there:-).

    • Re:Close Call (Score:3, Informative)

      by rpozz ( 249652 )
      I think there was an article quite a while ago where some asshole was claiming that OSS developers are "unqualified amateurs". Guess what? Many of the people who managed to write operating systems in assembler in a few K in the 80s were also "unqualified amateurs".

      • Re:Close Call (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bonch ( 38532 )
        Actually, most of them were people who studied/taught at universities or worked at places like HP, AT&T, etc. At the least, they had formal, academic training.

  • Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:47PM (#12068631)
    But because computers are so complex, it's inevitable, and usually not very long, before they stop working as they should.

    This is your first mistake. Computers are not inherently complex (even Windows). People have a habbit of making computers more complex than they need to be (i.e. installing whatever whenever and expecting it to remain on there and stable forever). If people would just take the time to understand that they do not need 10000 things in their tray and took the 10 minutes to read exactly what each of those things they installed did they would quickly learn what the Uninstall Program feature is for.

    When a domestic appliance goes wrong, you can ring a repair man. When your car breaks down you can call the garage. But when your computer system goes wrong, who do you call?

    Google or a manual. Just like I did for my burned out tail-light on my car, the squeaking dryer, and the rattling my engine made when it spun a rod. Now, in the case of the spun rod there was nothing *I* could do without taking it to the dealer to repair but at least I had an idea of what to expect when they told me what was wrong with it.

    The simple truth is that although computer systems are sold as consumer goods like fridges or washing machines, there's no computer equivalent of a qualified service engineer who you can get to come around and fix things.

    You bought software or your hardware from somewhere I would guess (if you built this stuff on your own you have enough knowledge to fix it on your own). Take it to them. Dell, Gateway, Apple, whoever. If you're talking about software issues, call the company of the software you installed, oooh, it's Spyware problems. You only have yourself to blame for not researching carefully what you put on your computer. Just because you can modify your computer more easily than most pieces of hardware you own does not mean you should be absolved of all responsibility when it breaks. I wish that more people would understand that.

    It seems incredible, but millions of families and thousands of businesses have no-one to turn to but a bunch of unqualified amateurs to fix the most complicated pieces of equipment that have probably ever existed. It's a scary thought.

    What do you suggest? A school where they teach spyware removal? Or do you propose they learn about securing their networks (wireless and wired), their computers w/firewalls, spyware and virus protection (and frequent scans/updates), and keeping abreast of new news about OS updates and protections to the latest and greatest things out there? Why not spend the 20 minutes reading one of my posts or the 10000000 other posts out there that tell you exactly what you need to know:

    1. Get a software firewall (ZoneAlarm) that tells you when an internal software package is calling home.
    2. Get AdAware, SpyBot, and SpywareBlaster. Keep them up to date and scan frequently.
    3. Install all the latest updates for your OS and keep them up to date.
    4. Don't install something that you don't understand. Check with Google first. It's not hard to spend the 5 minutes with a Google search on the name of the program you want to install to find out if it phones home (and if you don't at least you have ZoneAlarm to give you a heads up).
    5. Get some sort of virus protection (i.e. NAV or AVG)
    6. Realize that regular maintenance is required for ANY piece of hardware (cars, HVAC, etc). Do you not change your oil every ~3000 miles? Do you not check your air filters in your home every month or two? Do you not add water softener salt every month?

    I just gave five pieces of software that are free, easily found on reputable/major distribution sites, and that have probably been repeated elsewhere thousands of times. It amazes me that someone who claims that he can fix other people's problems didn't find this software and then had the audacity to claim that the software out there sucks.

    If only more people were w

    • Re:Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gotr00t ( 563828 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:51PM (#12068676) Journal
      Realize that regular maintenance is required for ANY piece of hardware

      I know what you mean, but I have seen old computers that use the Intel 8086. They have been running pretty much non-stop for decades and their cases have never been opened once.

      • I know what you mean, but I have seen old computers that use the Intel 8086. They have been running pretty much non-stop for decades and their cases have never been opened once.

        Exactly, and who put them into place when they originally put them online? People who spent the time learning how to properly operate a computer. In this day and age we have a limitless resource of information easily accessed with two clicks.

        If people are unwilling to spend the time necessary to learn even the most basic skills

        • Re:Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Illserve ( 56215 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:16PM (#12068978)
          Would you get over yourself already?

          The means to properly operate a computer is as far beyond the reach of the average person as is the ability to tune their car and replace the fan belt. It's not that their stupid,it's that the concepts are completely alien to them. What seems trivial to you is a goddamned nightmare to most adults who grew up without touching a computer.

          And there's also a selection bias, many people who are otherwise smart, just aren't good at dealing with computer-type systems. Those people have avoided computers until they couldn't any longer. Again, not that they're stupid (well not all of them), but everyone is good at some things, and bad at others.

          Computers have gotten much harder to use successfully as they have gotten more powerful. It is not that the people who put together that 8086 did it "properly", it's that there were far fewer ways to screw it up.

    • Yeah, but I'm one of those computer students...
      If people started fixing their own computers, I'd be out a lot of my spending money.

    • Re:Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by slughead ( 592713 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:55PM (#12068733) Homepage Journal
      The simple truth is that although computer systems are sold as consumer goods like fridges or washing machines, there's no computer equivalent of a qualified service engineer who you can get to come around and fix things.

      The difference between auto mechanics and computer repairmen is that the mechanics have a union which forces licensing on its members to boost the price of labor.
      • The difference between auto mechanics and computer repairmen is that the mechanics have a union which forces licensing on its members to boost the price of labor.

        The difference is in what is being diagnosed and repaired. Mechanical problems are easier to find and diagnose than electrical or software problems. If you have a puddle of antifreeze in the garage - it's a good sign that there is a problem in the cooling system. If you have a system fan in a computer that makes a god-awful sound when you sta

      • Also, the worst thing an incompetant PC tech can do is reduce your computer to a state that requires a format and re-install to fix. The only things that could possibly be damaged permanently are your data files, and even they can almost always be recovered simply by putting your HD into another, working computer.

        Auto mechanics, on the other hand, actually have to do work on a real, physical machine. They can't undo their mistakes just by sticking in a recovery disc. Plus, cars cost a hell of a lot more
        1. The difference between auto mechanics and computer repairmen is that ...

        Wait! Wait! I know this!

        (AHEM!) 'The difference between auto mechanics and computer repairmen is that the auto mechanic knows when they are lying.'

    • Thank you for saying everything for me. The one thing I would like to add is a comment about the unqualified amateurs line. There are indeed people you can call to fix your stuff. But just like carpenters and plumbers and the rest, there ARE some jobs that are too small. And all those people are off making much more money at a real company doing big jobs on computers more important than grandmas.

      The real problem here is that unlike your washers and dryers and televisions there is a constant swarm of people
      • The only solution is user education. It will be solved in 80 years when all the people who haven't had computers for their entire lives are dead.

        Hardly. I'm a college student, so the people around me are young enough that they have been surrounded by computers from the day they were born. And yet, many of them are clueless. Just a few weeks ago we had an email virus running amok on campus. I remember when I got the first virus email, my roommate and I laughed as we predicted how many more of those mes
        • When was the last time you had to do maintenance on your screwdriver?

          And the fact that you have to do maintenance on a computer just means that the industry is still very, very immature. It SHOULD be just a tool. You shouldn't have to learn the intracacies of it just to use it. Case in point: cars. When was the last time you changed a distributor caps, or re-did the points on your engine or had service on your carbureator? Oh yeah. You haven't. Most people your age never have because cars are much

          • Its not just a tool. (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            That's like complaining that a book is too hard to use because you have to spend all this time learning how to read. Some things have a certain amount of complexity and people need to learn. The car analogy is great, except that you aren't expected to repair your car or computer. You do have to learn how to drive a car, and you should have to learn to use a computer. Learning simple things like "read messages that appear on your screen instead of immediately clicking the ok button", and "do not install
    • You bought software or your hardware from somewhere I would guess (if you built this stuff on your own you have enough knowledge to fix it on your own). Take it to them. Dell, Gateway, Apple, whoever. If you're talking about software issues, call the company of the software you installed, oooh, it's Spyware problems.

      The difference between a computer repair and a car repair, is that the computer repair center can claim your computer broke from a software issue that isn't their doing, whereas a car mechanic
      • No, but he will charge you for his time to drain your tank and lines and replace your fuel filter and whatever else may have been damaged by the bad gas. Then he will tell you never to get that gas again. Same goes for spyware.

      • Re:Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Brandybuck ( 704397 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:56PM (#12069508) Homepage Journal
        Imagine you buy a new base model Honda Civic. You then go to twenty different third party after-market vendors for stuff like air conditioning, cruise control, etc. You replace your standard fuel filters, brake pads, etc., with stuff ordered online. You get a series of spams about putting magnets in your gas tank and taping crystals to your spark plugs, so you do it. You never change your oil or rotate your tires because it's too difficult to remember to do it. Whenever something goes wrong you have a twelve year old neighbor kid look at it first.

        What is your legitimate auto dealer going to say when you bring your car in for service? He's going to laugh in your face!
    • People could learn how to drive a computer, but for most of the time they use one, learning its intricacies is not necessary. Computers can work fine for two to three years before becoming overloaded with Spyware and 'breaking'. When that happens, it is replaced with a new computer, or someone comes along to fix it. This is why the majority of people would not want to learn how to fix a computer, or even need to - nearly all the time, the knowledge is not needed.

      It is equivalent (sort of) to learning a new

    • Re:Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by friedmud ( 512466 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:25PM (#12069091)
      I wholeheartedly agree with all you wrote... but let me throw some more fat on the fire...

      I think people are too afraid of their computers. Let me explain... I was just last night helping my wife (over the phone) fix her parents computer. It had erotic popups all over the place and the computer had ground to a halt (only took about 5 minutes for the computer to stop responding after a reboot). This was a particularly nasty situation.

      I had given her a CD with SpyBot and Adaware and Firefox on it to take with her (she was going to visit for easter)... the problem was whenever she would try to run either SpyBot or Adaware the computer would restart (maybe some adware was detecting it? I seriously don't know).

      So what's the solution? I had her get all the documents they wanted to keep off the computer and onto a CD (luckily the computer would work long enough to get this done)... and then I walked her through resetting the (Dell) computer back to factory defaults.

      In working with her over the phone (she is in NO way computer savvy... just a good user) I noticed that she was always reluctant to do ANYTHING without me telling her EXACTLY what to do. Occasionally (not familiar with their computer) I didn't know EXACTLY how to get passed a certain screen and I would just tell her take a look at what she was seeing and make a choice. Finally after doing this several times I told her "You CANT break it! We're wiping the computer clean! Just choose something and if it doesn't work we can start over!"

      She is not alone. I find often that people are reluctant to explore their computers. If you've got all your documents backed up what is the worst that could happen? There is NO way to (physically) hurt the computer with software. As long as you have reinstallation CDs JUST GO FOR IT!

      Ok - long story... I apologize...

      Friedmud

      • Re:Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by cowscows ( 103644 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @04:15PM (#12069761) Journal
        Total agreement on your point. You learn a whole lot by just trying stuff, and seeing what happens. Sure, sometimes you break stuff, but that's part of the game. Now, I know not everyone has the time to do that every time something breaks, but you can at least try clicking on a few dialog boxes before looking for help.

        My mom calls me with computer problems from time to time. I currently live about a thousand miles from her, so it's not that easy for me to diagnose and fix her problems, so I don't particularly enjoy it. Occasionally she'll call me while I'm busy at work, and so I can't even try to help her. A few times when that's happened, she's called me back later to tell me that she spent some time experimenting, and she figured out whatever it was that was giving her problems. So I know she can figure out some of it. She's no geek, but she's smart and when she actually tries, she makes progress on her problems. And even if she can't figure it out completely, when I do get around to helping her, she knows more about the problem, and we make progress faster.

        I just wish she'd accept that, and not call me as quickly in the future.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @04:36PM (#12070032)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Um... (Score:2, Funny)

    by rnturn ( 11092 )
    Pee Wee fixes computers? (Heh, heh!)
    • ... I know this isn't the same guy (or even the same spelling of the last name) but once the mental picture of Pee Wee getting all flustered over spyware had been formed, I just couldn't resist.

    • Re:Um... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Donkey5555 ( 720467 )
      Computer!? You said the secret word!!! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

  • The reason computer techs are unqualified amateurs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Flounder ( 42112 ) * on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:49PM (#12068650)
    If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't be wasting their time cleaning spyware off grandma's machine for $12/hr.

  • get what you pay for (Score:5, Insightful)

    by the arbiter ( 696473 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:52PM (#12068681)
    "a bunch of unqualified amateurs"

    Perhaps if they were paid more than your typical McDonalds employee they'd be a bit better than said fast-food dispensers.

    • Re:get what you pay for (Score:5, Informative)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:04PM (#12068846)
      Perhaps if they were paid more than your typical McDonalds employee they'd be a bit better than said fast-food dispensers.

      I had a discussion with a friend about people in the IT world (I'm not one of them). One works for a large corporation's IT department. He was unaware of SSH, VNC, but was concerned that the wireless router they use in their house doesn't use MAC filtering or WEP. He also has a piece of software phoning home to Toshiba constantly, uses an unencrypted IM client, and gives you a blank stare when you talk about SSH tunnels to a squid proxy.

      In this case the unpaid amateur knows 100x what the well paid IT professional does.

      As long as the market continues to allow that sort of crap to go on the computing world will continue to suffer as a whole.

    • Re:get what you pay for (Score:4, Insightful)

      by electroniceric ( 468976 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:51PM (#12069438)
      Hear hear! Frankly, if this guy wants guaranteed-quality computer repair, perhaps he ought to look for it first, and see what it costs.

      I do think there's an interesting conundrum for companies in here. In the IT industry, and numerous other engineering industries "repair tech" or any kind of frontline support is basically an entry-level job. Try calling the phone guys to repair your line - inevitably, up shows some guy doing his best to sport some peach fuzz. Not infrequently the guy doesn't know what he's doing and hence makes a huge mess. Worse yet, when he does start to know what he's doing, and up and away he goes, to be replaced by another entry level drone.

      The problem is that this is an important part of the customer's interactions with the company, particularly with long-term contracts. So unless they can figure out how to invert that hierarchy, they're be dealing with pissed off customers forever.

  • Unqualified ameteurs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tehshen ( 794722 ) <tehshen@gmail.com> on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:52PM (#12068696)
    It seems incredible, but millions of families and thousands of businesses have no-one to turn to but a bunch of unqualified amateurs to fix the most complicated pieces of equipment that have probably ever existed. It's a scary thought.

    Sure it seems scary at a glance (I hire a professional builder to fix my home, I hire some kid down the street to fix my computer) but after a while it does not seem so outrageous. If you're silly enough to download enough viruses or spyware to make Windows not load or your Internet connection stop working, you'd be silly enough to hire an 'unqualified amateur' to fix it.

    • The reason (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 2names ( 531755 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:01PM (#12068792)
      most people go to "unqualified amateurs" is this:

      PRICE.

      No one wants to pay $50 - $100 an hour for a qualified person to come to their house and tell them that their computer would run fine if they would stop visiting so many porn sites.

      I have worked on at least 100 home PCs in my lifetime and have not found a single one that was free of pornography. Don't get me wrong, if someone wants to look at porn, that is their business, not mine. But don't get all pissed off when fat-young-heiffers.com loads your machine with digital nastiness that you didn't ask for.

      • Re:The reason (Score:4, Funny)

        by wcrowe ( 94389 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:50PM (#12069415)
        I haven't done too many home computers, because the owners are just too uninformed about the things, and once I touch it, they figure anything that goes wrong with it after that is somehow my fault.

        One home user I went to had something like 26 viruses and over 100 malware/spyware-related objects on the machine. After spending three hours fixing everything, I looked at they guy's history, and there were hundreds of porn and gambling sites. This guy's wife is extremely religious, and supposedly he is too, so I kept my mouth shut so as not to embarrass him, but I wanted to say, "If you'd stay off the ****ing porn and gambling sites, you'd have no problems.

        That was five months ago. Last week he called me back with the same problems. Same viruses; same malware; same history list.

        Good grief!

        • Hmm... perhaps you're onto something there! If we could advertise Firefox as "the best browser for viewing porn sites without screwing your PC", I wonder if even more people would want to install it?

          But then, I guess that might put you out of business, so probably isn't worth the hassle for you to install for people!

          • Yeah totally. Think of some catchy slogan or something.

            "Firefox: Lets you fuck yourself without fucking with your computer."

    • Qualified professionals (Score:4, Interesting)

      by TheMCP ( 121589 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:26PM (#12069111) Homepage
      My father is a veteran systems administrator with 35 years of experience in the industry. His and his girlfriends' home PCs keep getting virii, spyware, and adware.

      It's not that dad's an old coot, he actually keeps his skills up to date. It's that Windows is so unbelievably insecure he just can't keep up with it. He uses antivirus software, he tries to keep it up to date, he has multiple spyware scanners/removers which he updates regularly, and he just can't keep the systems clean. Every year or two it gets too unbearable and he just has to wipe the machine and reinstall from scratch, or replace it.

      If my father can't do it, then no normal mortal computer owner should be expected to do it.

      I think I've got Dad just about convinced to buy a Macintosh. When he hears that I have absolutely no problems with malware and I don't even have to have special software to prevent it, he gets very interested.

      • Re:Qualified professionals (Score:3, Informative)

        by Knara ( 9377 )
        Windows XP + Free AdAware + Free Spybot S&D + Free AVG Antivirus + Firefox

        Ya put those on a machine, have them updated regularly, and it's really hard to get a messed up Windows install.

        The only thing that really gets me is that while Spybot S&D has an awesome TeaTimer resident proggie, it still requires users to answer whether or not they want to add/remove esoteric sounding registry keys. The average user (not me) has no idea what those keys will or will not do. It's the only gap in the ab

      • Re:Qualified professionals (Score:4, Interesting)

        by netringer ( 319831 ) <<maaddr-slashdot> <at> <yahoo.com>> on Monday March 28, 2005 @04:34PM (#12070009) Journal
        My father is a veteran systems administrator with 35 years of experience in the industry. His and his girlfriends' home PCs keep getting virii, spyware, and adware.


        It's not that dad's an old coot, he actually keeps his skills up to date. It's that Windows is so unbelievably insecure he just can't keep up with it. He uses antivirus software, he tries to keep it up to date, he has multiple spyware scanners/removers which he updates regularly, and he just can't keep the systems clean. Every year or two it gets too unbearable and he just has to wipe the machine and reinstall from scratch, or replace it.

        If my father can't do it, then no normal mortal computer owner should be expected to do it.
        I'm a veteran system administrator with 33 years experience. None of my 5 personally run Windows systems are infected with anything.

        Staying clean is a matter of reading up on what's going on on the crapware front, not OK-ing crapware installs and #1 not using Internet Explorer. I also run and update and anti-virus, Spybot S&D and AdAware to make sure I don't miss anything. The only hits I get are for cookies.

        If you know you DON'T NEED any more browser plug ins....guess what else you don't need?

        I agree that mere civilians don't have chance. I talked by phone late into the night last night helping one of the smartest guys I know, a doctor 200 miles away who has had to spend way too much time trying to get PCs in his office working. Now his has something making it crawl we couldn't figure out over the phone. I got him working running Firefox on a another PC he brought in from home when IE on that one still refuses to work.

        I'm telling him to get an iMac on the LAN just so he and I have something that WILL connect and runs VNC so that I can get in and help the next time.

        We agreed that the guy's time is worth over $200 an hour. Last night Windows on Intel stole another $1200 from him. He figures it has cost him $5000 to $7000 each year.

  • At least... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Valiss ( 463641 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:53PM (#12068698) Homepage
    ...he didn't try to become a pilot!

  • I certainly hope (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tebriel ( 192168 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:53PM (#12068700)
    that we stop getting shoddy articles from amatuer journalists. They have no business offering their opinions or articles. /sarcasm.

  • Who wants to pat for a professional? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by qwertphobia ( 825473 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:54PM (#12068713)
    Folks don't mind paying $50+ per hour for their vehicle repairs, but nobody wants to pay that sort of money to get their operating system de-loused.

    I think that's a major part of the problem. It's hard to make money as a retail computer repair technician, and it's not a fun career. I would guess that the good ones aspire to move away from retail as soon as they are able.

    • Cost/value (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mgkimsal2 ( 200677 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:59PM (#12068775) Homepage
      A car is something that gets you to your job, and you invest thousands in (tens of thousands for most people). $50/hour for a few hours isn't all that much.

      $50/hour for 3-4 hours ($150-$200) is often 20-40% of the original computer cost. When Dell is offering $549 packages deals with a flat screen, most people's knee-jerk reaction is that $50/hour is 'too high'. And it is too high, for most people and what they do. If it's related to their work, they can expense it. If it's just an email/gaming machine, they can buy a new one that's faster anyway.

      • Re:Cost/value (Score:3, Informative)

        by einhverfr ( 238914 )
        Well..... I disagree. And I am in the business. My business offers a wide range of customer services, from PC repair (promotional rate of $40/hr, will go up to $50/hr in September), line of buisness systems, etc. at a higher rate.

        My business is growing pretty rapidly. People will pay for support if they have the option of getting quality assistance.
    • It's hard to make money as a retail computer repair technician

      The reason it's hard is that if you know what you're doing and are worth $50/hr, you're going to get undercut by the kid down the street who charges $15/hr and doesn't know WHAT the hell he's doing.

      As long as consumers lack the abilities to distinguish between competent and incompetent computer technicians, this problem will always exist.

  • computer repairmen? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ack154 ( 591432 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:54PM (#12068716)
    I don't think he's calling the repairmen amateurs... but the people that joe user ends up turning to. Maybe the kid down the street, or the guy next door who hooked up his own router. Most people don't call someone for PC repair, they just find "someone who knows something" ... no shit that person is an amateur.
  • You mena the local dork that sends his teen age employees out to the sidewalk in chicken suits waving a sign that says "Honk if you hate pop-ups" isn't a profesional outfit?

    My family and friends don't bug me that much about computer problems, but when they do, they know that:

    1. I will treat them with respect
    2. I will fix their problem (usually)
    3. I will give them advise to avoid the problem next time


    And I outside of the occasional meal, I am free. :)

  • Pee Wee Herman? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Look KG486 ( 867105 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:55PM (#12068732) Homepage Journal
    "Most of the problems I've been called to look at have been caused by viruses and spyware, some by strange software [conflicts], and only one by faulty hardware."

    Fortunately, the hardware problem [mugshots.org] ended up being a temporary issue.

  • Amateurs? Maybe, but certainly qualified (Score:4, Insightful)

    by saskboy ( 600063 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:55PM (#12068735) Homepage Journal
    I know people, and am someone who learned back in the mid 1990s how to fix computers, and managed to keep up with current hardware trends to offer service superior or at least as good as a place like Staples, or a box-store repair center could provide.

    In the world of computer repair though, you often get what you pay for. If you're outsourcing your computer repair to the kid down the street, you might get lucky if they're smart and read slashdot, or you could get someone who thinks you upgrade RAM by adding a hard drive.

  • People treat their Refrigerators better then PCs (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hydroxy ( 863799 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:55PM (#12068738)
    If people went around treating their refrigerators as bad as they did their PCs, then we would have the same problem. Put the fridge in the middle of the street, let people take food, put food in, plug it into a DC power source etc. That thing would break in a heartbeat. However all we do is open/close the fridge and occasionally defrost/clean it. Have someone use their PC to goto ONE website ONLY (ie microsoft.com) with a direct pipe to the site - that computer will be bug free for a while. Maybe even 10-15 years just like my last fridge.
  • I found this kind of interesting, even if it just suggests a way to pay for my lift tickets after my next layoff.

    I've occasionally taken a look at some non-technical friend's computer, and I can usually do enough good that they're very grateful afterward (even if it's just reinstalling some DLL so their spellchecker starts working again). Picking up $100/week or so for this kind of weeks sounds like a reasonable hobby for an unemployed techie.

  • Computer Repair(men) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by commo1 ( 709770 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:55PM (#12068741)
    We really are a bunch of unqualified amateurs. That is, except for a top-level 3% or so (I could be wrong..... I could also be wrong about putting myself in this category). What matters is persistence and continuing research & education (self-taught properly niched persons, not that tech school stuff that is one of the greatest rip-offs and causes of problems in IT today)

    What it comes down to is a very specialized people with a knack for dealing with themundane problems encountered on the desktop today. Server maintenance, network design and upkeep is simple in comparison to the myriad of problems encountered by a low-level desktop tech today, in retail or in a SMB environment.

    The author does bring up some interesting points, however, regarding the difference between car/washing machine repairmen and computer techs..... there is very little one can do to ensure they are being serviced properly in todays marketplace that, at this time, can have no place for certification and the like.... "A+ Certified and Toilet Trained: Equally proud of both." to quote.

    • What amazes me is how everyone in IT knows that even some of the most expensive certification programs are bullshiat -- I've taken my share through some of the big guns, like SUN for godssake, and can you say crrrrap? -- but still everyone demands the damned certs.

      There have been a couple occassions where I've been in a slump and just need to pick up some work and would have been more than happy to do basic hardware work. I've been building PCs since I was in Jr. High over twenty years ago, but oh hell no,
  • And they also read Slashdot. Go figure........

  • Amateurs? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by illumina+us ( 615188 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @02:58PM (#12068772) Homepage
    It seems incredible, but millions of families and thousands of businesses have no-one to turn to but a bunch of unqualified amateurs to fix the most complicated pieces of equipment that have probably ever existed. It's a scary thought.

    And it's about time that vet starts repaying me for all the hours I've put in fixing his computer. So far the pooch hasn't been ill, but then he only has about 500 parts. But when he does get sick, at least I know I'll be taking him to a fully qualified canine service engineer to be mended, not a local amateur.
    Because the people who take their computers apart, use them daily, and usually teach the tech support weanies are really the amateurs. See to be really qualified you obviously need a piece of paper like the CompTIA A+ certification (most geeks, /.ers, and CS students can take that in their sleep). Yep... unqualified amateurs alright.

    We built our systems, tuned them, made them perform better than they should, kept them virus free, and done it for less than going with a retail box just so we can be called amateurs. Sorry, but only pros can do things like that.

    What's really sad though, is that all you need to do to use a computer and have almost no problems is well... RTFM. =/

  • Notice that his ad makes good use of white space, lacks grammatical errors and is generally well composed?

    He should take up journalism or something!

  • Of course they're unqualified. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EarwigTC ( 579471 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:01PM (#12068804)
    Nobody with skills wants a market (consumer computer service) with whiny, cash-strapped cutomers who don't think they should have to pay the time and cost it takes, when a better market (business computer service) exists.

    Computers are like other service industries, except that they require a lot more knowledge and care to prevent the problems from happening in the first place. People don't realize that difference, and expect solving computer problems to be like plumbing, with easy estimates of time and cause.

  • I find that most people are very stingy when it comes to getting qualified or unqualified help in getting their computer fixed. They'll drop a thousand dollars to pimp out their car but won't buy a hundred dollar external drive for backup until all of their business records are wiped out. And its next to impossible to convince people that their Windows systems need regular upkeep, which will come out cheaper than feverishly fixing the systems after they failed.

    I also had a gig providing free tech support f

  • It's not a fun job. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by The Evil Twin ( 217345 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:03PM (#12068823) Homepage
    Sure, there are schools to get certified in Computer repair. But people who get this certification usually end up being the "Amateurs".
    I did computer service work for 4 years while going to school. It was for a consulting firm. I'd be farmed out to different businesses all over the GTA.
    I wasn't great at it. But I knew loads more than anybody and these businesses. After the first service call, all computer related problems were automatically our fault. You constantly had to deal with irate people. No wonder I only made a fraction of what the company I worked for was charging for my time.

    The thing is. I learned this stuff on my own. Taking apart my first computer, perpetually upgrading it, writing my own software, etc. I had an interest. Most people don't. They just want it to work. They want this website to show their video clip, or that file to play this sound clip or whatever. They have no interest in knowing what you should and shouldn't do and how it all works.

    The people who KNOW how it all works usually don't want to do it. I sure don't. After working in computer repair service for four years, I hardly want to help out my best friends let along do it for "someone somebody knows with a problem". And there is the catch. People who know, who are good at it, and who can do a good job, don't want to. It's the Janitorial job of the IT world.

  • "Unqualified Amateurs?" (Score:3, Informative)

    by rpozz ( 249652 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:03PM (#12068825)
    Seriously, maybe he should try going to PC World (in the UK), and getting the "Qualified" "Professional" staff there to help him? Many "professionals" are random people with no experience who have been put on some useless training course.

  • True That... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jaylee7877 ( 665673 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:06PM (#12068865) Homepage
    So this weekend (yep, my holiday weekend) a close friend of my parents needed serious help. Her external drive (where she unfortunately saved all her data without backups) had stopped working. This was her entire business (stupid mistake, but common among end users). She had already spoken to one "IT Pro" who had taken a look, said the drive was completely dead and told her to send the drive to one of those low level recovery services which cost $3000. I took the drive, plugged it in to USB, and copied her files right off. Turns out the firewire connection on the drive had died. This "IT Pro" didn't even have the brains to try a different connection type! When someone tells me they've got a friend or brother or son in IT I assume only that that person is an idiot. Often I'm correct. If you don't know what your talking about, shut your mouth. Don't try to oversimplify or make something up. It makes all of us look bad.

    • Re:True That... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by RainbearNJ ( 198510 )
      A few months back, I was at a CompU$A looking at hard drives (they were having a sale on Seagate 160gb at the time), and this poor lady was there with her Maxtor firewire drive and her Powerbook.

      Apple Tech: Sorry, but since you never activated your AppleCare account, I can't even touch your laptop. Sorry.
      Lady: But..? I need my files--My composition is due next week!
      Apple Tech: Sorry.
      Me: May I?
      Apple Tech: Um...
      Lady: Sure!
      Me: *poke*look* Ok--it looks like the firewire port on your laptop is broken (physicall

  • Nobody wants to help the stupid (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LibertineR ( 591918 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:06PM (#12068871)
    Anyone who has gone through the grief of setting up their computers/networks to run reliably and consistantly is not about to waste time helping someone not inclined to learn, to maintain a computer.

    Who wants to get roped into answering the phone at all hours from someone who cant figure out how to avoid a virus or worm? I wont answer that call from anyone. Get WebTV and shut the fuck up.

    You cant pay me enough to swing by in the middle of my day to remove porn-popups, if you are gonna keep using IE, and not reign in your 13yr boy with a perpetual woody.

    I dont care if you have a pair of 44Ds in your blouse, I aint fixing your machine unless you are prepared to sit on my lap while I load my "Spybot".

  • PCs by their definition require amateur support (Score:3, Insightful)

    by defile ( 1059 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:09PM (#12068908) Homepage Journal

    When I sit down in front of a Linux server I can whip out super professional tools like strace and ltrace and lsof and dig through /proc, whip out gdb, etc. and follow everything step by step through the source code. Everything's usually simple enough that I can fit the entire system in my head and see where the broken piece is (except for PAM). The system invites me to do this. I can diagnose problems scientifically, professionally, and quickly.

    When I sit in front of a Windows box, with some exceptions, all I can do is push the same set of buttons that the user has been pushing, and see if I can find a combination that works.

    PCs force me to become an amateur. Reason: bad tools available.

  • He's right on the last note (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Nijika ( 525558 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:10PM (#12068917) Homepage Journal
    Just like anything else, you've got a dozen guys who fell out of some 3 day course who are advertising themselves as the new Turing, and you've got maybe one out of that dozen who actually cares enough to be competent. They can all come from the same course, and know the same stuff, but the difference is in what is delivered and how.

    The problem isn't completely with technical incompetence, the problem can just as easily and will more probably be with care and respect for the customer.

    It's a service issue, not a knowledge issue most times when you run into a computer tech who seems to be bumbling something up. Did they check to see what the problem actually was? Do they care enough if they're only making $7-10 an hour from their employer to save your enterprise business plan or presentation? Probably not.

    Actually the whole thing is a lot like having a car. You can go through a bunch of different mechaniacs who are either dishonest or lazy, but once and a while you find that one shop where they're commited to service. I don't know about you, but I end up holding on to that shop's business card like it's solid gold. And that's an industry where there are standards to meet. I pay more for better, and I'm always happy with the result.

    So WE as computer techies are to blame for this attitude in non computer techies in two ways; way #1, we undervalue ourselves and in turn make the work we do less valuable. #2 we don't do the work properly because we don't respect it ourselves.

    Actually come to think of it, as a freelancer, I'm not competing with these low-balling stained-shirt wearing Linksys cablemodem router admins anymore, I'm going to set my rates accordingly. //more of a rant than I wanted that to be.

  • Qualifications are overrated (Score:4, Insightful)

    by eno2001 ( 527078 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:16PM (#12068984) Homepage Journal
    I've met plenty of people with qualifications (computer science degrees, various certifications, etc..) who couldn't fix the simplest problems or don't even have an understanding of the most basic aspects of the systems. On the other hand, I've met other people who are more than capable and don't even have a college degree or a certification. The bottom line is this: If a person can fix the problem and provide you with an exact description of what caused the problem, and they can reproduce their results, they have the only qualification they need. (ie. they know what they're doing)

    The biggest mistake that a lot of people make is thinking that computers are a business. They aren't. They are a technology and therefore you need technologically savvy people to work with them. I have no formal training at all, but most people I know always come to me for help because they know I can figure out and solve any software or hardware issue on a PC. I think it helps that I have a non-formal background in electronics first. I, generally, know how the circuitry works at the hardware level. So it's very easy for me to rule out hardware problems before I explore the software itself. Many times, I find that the culprit is too many apps that are stomping over each other.

    When I was a Windows guy, it didn't take me long to discover that most of the instability in my system was caused by all the extras I loaded on for convenience. This was an alien experience to me as it wasn't that way in the Atari ST world I migrated from. I didn't like it, but I wound up finding that the best way to run Windows was to keep it lean and pretty plain vanilla. If I wanted extra apps, I always went for Microsoft products because they usually worked the best with Windows. Norton stuff was very cool, but resulted in a lot of instability (this was Windows 3.1). Then I got sick of having only one place to go shopping and moved to Linux. All problems solved...

  • Anybody can fix computers... (Score:3, Informative)

    by solios ( 53048 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:17PM (#12068992) Homepage
    ... all you have to do is say "I CAN FIX THAT!" and have more of a clue than the person with the broke gear.

    Considering the number of retards and windows installs in the world, this is fairly easy to do.

    Computer "repair" is a lot like plumbing... the difference is that you don't see everyone who's plunged a toilet calling themselves a plumber and billing out 50$ an hour. Real plumbers know their shit and get paid accordingly- likewise, a real pc tech who actually knows their shit is earning their paycheck without breaking much of a sweat.

    The problem is finding competent people. It's reasonably easy to tell if your plumber doesn't know shit, but if you're not some degree of geek, you'll get totally snowed by "computer repair"- though if you're some degree of geek, you don't need one. :P

  • Economics hampers repair process (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wcrowe ( 94389 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:36PM (#12069209)
    There are two reasons why so many amateurs are the only ones doing this kind of work.

    The first reason is that computers often cost more to fix than what was paid for them in the first place.

    It can take a few hours sometimes to fix some of the more persistent viruses and malware out there. As a consequence, only businesses seem to be able to afford my services.

    The second reason is that home users have unreasonable expectations. Many seem to think that once I've touched their computer, I own it, and anything that goes wrong after that is my fault, not theirs.

    I've only made a couple of home user calls. My first call was on a PC that had 26 viruses and over 100 malware and spyware-related issues.

    In another case I had to tell a lady that she could buy a new PC for about $200 less than what it would cost me to rid her aging computer of demons.

    Surprisingly, I have noticed that I charge $20/hr less than Geek Squad out of the local Best Buy. However, the home computer market is a touchy one.

  • A good analogy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SamMichaels ( 213605 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:37PM (#12069218)
    I do this for a living. Thank you to all the crappy software vendors, virus creators and spyware companies.

    But seriously...I use this analogy for my customers: You change the oil in your car every 3000 miles, you read the owners manual, you took a driver's test. A PC is a machine just like a car and it needs attention. You need to read up on it and look after it just like any other appliance or machine.

    When you're on the highway, you're sharing the road with other drivers...much like when you're on the internet you're sharing it with other people. You have insurance incase someone hits your car...but you don't have virus protection or spyware protection incase someone from the net hits your PC.

    Same story, different day.

    • Re:A good analogy (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Theaetetus ( 590071 )
      When you're on the highway, you're sharing the road with other drivers...much like when you're on the internet you're sharing it with other people. You have insurance incase someone hits your car...but you don't have virus protection or spyware protection incase someone from the net hits your PC.

      [shrug] I use a Mac - it cost a little bit more at the dealer, but it will have higher resale value when I get rid of it. My highway gets me to where I want to go quickly and easily, and I've got a shield around m

  • People problem (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Skiron ( 735617 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:43PM (#12069321)
    I can't remember who said it, but "You put a supposedly intelligent person in front of a computer and they become an incompetent idiot".

    At work I deal with some front line helpdesk stuff, and honestly sometimes you wonder what on earth these people do at home (I keep getting an error message! What does it say? I don't know... I don't understand computers) - like if a light bulb goes, do they sit in the dark until an electrician comes out to replace it?

  • Mainstream media catches up to 16 year old boys (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fox_1 ( 128616 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @03:49PM (#12069404)
    I imagine like many a young geek I was not alone in repairing PC's for access to food, money and girls. I didn't have qualifications other then being born into a household where computers were modded on a regular basis.(my appleIIc dual booted between an ibm board and the apple board) Of course what was important to me as a young geek isn't as important now. Fixing someones PC is a pain in the ass. Inevitably there is going to be something you didn't expect - like very few people keep motherboard manuals, and how do you look up jumper info when the only machine around is the one your repairing. When I was 16-20 it provided pocket money and access to girls and food (pasta for powerpoint anyone?) but as an adult I long ago realized that my time is more valuable - if I was doing it for a company I would expect min $50 an hour, I spent the years accumulating the experience and refining the skills. The average home user isn't willing to pay the 50$ an hour so they get 16-19 year old kids(unqualified amaturs)fixing their pc's. I have nothing against these kids, and I imagine many of them are more capable then me with some of these technologies. As long as the home user refuses to pay professional rates for PC service then that market place will stay the domain of young geeks, and provide them a place to use their skills for food, girls and money. Let em have it - if you are worth professional rates work in the professional market - don't work in the home market and crowd out the kids.

  • I Wouldn't Be Too Concerned (Score:3, Informative)

    by Master of Transhuman ( 597628 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @05:06PM (#12070417) Homepage

    about his "overqualified amateur" rant, since it was off the cuff.

    And his point was that appliance repair people get training in fixing a specific item, whereas computers have such varied configurations that it is nearly impossible to be an expert in fixing EVERYTHING.

    Or at least, I hope he understands that.

    I happen to be one of those "unqualified amateurs" doing home and small business tech support for low rates. I have twenty years in the IT field, so I know the basic facts about IT: nothing works and nobody cares. I have only been messing with current PC systems for the last three years, but I learn fast and usually have some idea where to look to solve a problem. But there's no doubt that the bewildering variety of screwups in both hardware and software make it very hard to do a quick, efficient fix.

    As an example from my own machine, a couple weeks ago I moved some partitions on the 160GB hard drive to make more room for my Windows 2000 and Windows XP root partitions (thankfully my Linux is on the other drive). Once I started accessing the partition that ended up on the other side of the 137GB barrier, both Windows crashed totally.

    I reinstalled and reconfigured, making sure I had SP4 on 2000 and SP2 on XP (which I had before the crash). After accessing that partition again, I discovered that neither OS could see files put in that partition by the other OS.

    To make a long story short, after nearly a week of wrestling with this, and being amazed at some of the bizarre behavior (all of which clearly indicated that at least one of the OS's simply was not seeing that partition in the "right" place on the drive), I discovered an MS Knowledgebase article that helpfully stated that Windows 2000 with Service Pack 3 cannot read the partition table correctly for "some" hard drives! (God forbid that MS tell us WHICH drives, WHEN, and WHY! Now I know! Big drives!) And I had installed 2000 with SP3 and THEN applied SP4 - too late, homes!

    Now, I spent a HELL of a lot of time on Google looking for ANYONE who had similar symptoms or a similar problem. Nothing - on the Web or in Google groups. I should have checked MS first, but even there it was not easy to find this particular KB article.

    Apparently, only under the specific conditions I had - a particular drive, installing 2000 SP3 first, then applying SP4, and possibly dual-booting with XP - did this problem arise.

    Multiply this by the tons of proprietary motherboards, manufacturer-tweaked BIOSes, "custom" hardware, scores of thousands of software apps, and add in a pinch of spyware - and how the hell can ANY tech ever hope to figure out what is wrong in less than two to four hours?

    Which, at the rate techs charge, is a hell of a lot of money for some home user who has, on a national average, maybe $100 disposable income for the month. It's no less of a problem for a business user if a critical server is out of action for that time.

    Another tech told me about trying to get a wireless LAN working for a small business down in Palo Alto. The frequency saturation in the 2.4GHz band was so bad there that the users kept getting kicked off or re-associating with the wrong access points. He tried everything - other brands of wireless, bigger, more directional antennas - nothing worked. Finally he had them buy a Cisco access point that was seven times more expensive than the ones they had been trying, which put out 100mw instead of 20. That worked - so far.

    For the last week, my AV has been turning off its email scanner for no apparent reason. No indication why, no good explanations on the company's forum. Since turning off the outbound SMTP scanner, it seems to have stopped doing it - so far.

    PCs are a nightmare today, no question about it.

  • Of COURSE they're unqualified! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Dagmar d'Surreal ( 5939 ) on Monday March 28, 2005 @06:25PM (#12071308) Journal
    Not to state the painfully obvious, but the way most retailers work, it's no great suprise their employees say unintelligent things like "it's the gold contact that let you know it's a USB 2.0 cable because electricity travels faster through gold." (That is a direct quote, by the way!)

    The big chain stores charge customers $50 an hour (for in-house repair) to upwards of $100 an hour (for on-site work) and then turn around and give these hard-working individuals a whopping $10 to $12 per hour to survive on. The word "geeksploitation" comes to mind in a big way. It's this reason that most computer repairmen who tolerate this onerous situation (you can make $10 an hour doing data entry if you can just *type* fast) and hire on at these places are literally the bottom bidders in the system. That is just barely enough money to keep a geek in new hardware so they can learn the intimate details of troubleshooting it (which is cheaper than regular training classes, and includes employee discounts on the hardware). The majority of these poor, damned souls either stagnate, or tolerate the situation only long enough to get jobs at better places as either system administrators or network engineers, who are typically only marginally less underpaid.

    Your best bet to finding really skilled geeks is still word-of-mouth to find an independent contractor or small group of geeks acting in concert.

    Stop the geeksploitation!

  • Who to call (Score:3, Insightful)

    by yuri benjamin ( 222127 ) <yuridg@gmail.com> on Monday March 28, 2005 @07:51PM (#12072066) Journal
    From the article:
    When a domestic appliance goes wrong, you can ring a repair man. When your car breaks down you can call the garage. But when your computer system goes wrong, who do you call?

    In my experience, most people call their ISP, even for problems that are not internet related. How do I know? I work for an ISP. And they expect their ISP to fix it. They see their ISP subscription as a service contract. When, after some questioning, the ISP helpdesk operator ascertains that the problem is not internet related, or not covered by the support policy, then begins the hard part of convincing the customer. It's often easier to tell the customer to reboot.

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