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10.4 on Display at FOSE 326

CmdrStone writes "Just thought I'd post to let people know that while at FOSE today in the Washington, D.C. Convention center I lingered at the Apple pavilion / booth. To my surprise every machine had 10.4 running. The build number matches the build number found on the rumor sites; 8A428. Does this presage Tiger hitting the shelves soon? Personally, my main interest was how much iSync was expanded to support more devices, phones, etc. The Apple rep confirmed that the number of devices has expanded. He lamented that his Symbian phone, the Nokia 9500 Communicator, still was not included in the supported phones. He did tell me that he was able to tether his Powerbook and get online via his 9500's T-Mobile connection."
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10.4 on Display at FOSE

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  • Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thundercatslair ( 809424 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:20PM (#12149519)
    It did go gold about a week ago, so yes you should see it on store shelves soon.
    • by ShaniaTwain ( 197446 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:28PM (#12149572) Homepage
      A product that is due to come out soon may be coming out soon. Stay tuned for updates.
    • I'm running 8A425, so news that there is an 8A428 is news PAST what we THOUGHT was GM.
      • Re:Well... (Score:3, Informative)

        by Brian Kendig ( 1959 )
        You do realize that Tiger runs Software Update as soon as you're finished installing it, so it can apply any patches which are available?

        So, basically, as soon as you install a pirated pre-release version of Tiger, it notifies the mothership "here I am", and if you're not supposed to have it yet, you can expect the authorities to come knocking on your door?

  • by dirkdidit ( 550955 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:21PM (#12149521) Homepage
    Anybody manage to make off with a hard drive from one of those Macs, image it and make a .torrent of it?
    • Re:Torrent, anybody? (Score:4, Informative)

      by binder520 ( 767223 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:26PM (#12149564) Homepage
      This article [] points out that most of the Torrent sites are shying away from hosting a copy of Tiger in fear of lawsuits from Apple.
    • Bah, who needs a torrent?? What this report is missing is the big-cat codename. What could it be? Puma's been done (back in beta) so no Red vs Blue jokes there... Lynx probably won't happen. Perhaps 10.4 Ocelot could glean some Metal Gear Solid humor but it's a bit too niche, even for Slashdot ("Damn!") plus not very catchy, it being more than two syllables.

      Ultimately they'll probably go for Leopard or Cheetah, the former offers Jaguar's pimp visual stylings to the (quartz) extreme while the latter would
      • Gee, and here I was mixing up Tiger with 10.3... Ugh I feel SO stupid. Please feel free to transplant my post to the future, when identical speculation on OS X 10.5 arises...

        I need a drink.
        • Supposedly, the codenames of 10.0 (Cheetah) and 10.1 (Puma) were internally decided upon by the OS team. Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger have had some influence by marketing once the big-cat theme was embraced by the public to distinguish the releases.

          Apple will probably stick with the big cat names but if they start to get repetitive they'll probably move on to another carnivorous predator name as long as Microsoft continues with the delicious herbivore name for their next OS. What might be some ideas?

          • Lion
      • by fuct_onion ( 870134 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @09:49PM (#12150096) Journal
        ++ vote for 'Liger'!...

        Deb: "What are you drawing?"
        Napoleon: "A Liger"
        Deb: "What's a Liger?"
        Napoleon: "It's probably my favorite animal. It's a cross between a lion and tiger. It's bred for its skills in magic."
        • Goddammit, why can't slashdot pull together and condemn that piece of shit movie for the geek bashing tripe that it is? It contains no plot or character development whatsoever (and even 2Fast2Furious managed to pull that off).
          • Goddammit, why can't slashdot pull together and condemn that piece of shit movie for the geek bashing tripe that it is?

            Because it wasn't geek bashing. It was geek nostalgia. The director was clearly drawing on his own experiences.

            It wasn't exactly Office Space (the funniest move of the last 10 years), but there were about a half dozen very clever moments in the film which at least made it worth watching.

            Vote for Pedro, bee-otch.
  • Tiger (Score:5, Funny)

    by hunterx11 ( 778171 ) <.hunterx11. .at.> on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:22PM (#12149533) Homepage Journal
    Tyger! Tyger! burning bright In the forests of the night. What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful final build?
    • Re:Tiger (Score:5, Funny)

      by arodland ( 127775 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:25PM (#12149557)
      That rhymes even worse than the original.
    • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) * on Wednesday April 06, 2005 @01:18AM (#12151326)
      If you're going to change it, might as well finish it off:

      Tyger! Tyger! Burning Gold
      In the burners to be sold.
      What immortal slot or tray
      Could load thee come time for GA?

      In what distant road or skies,
      Might come the discs that makes search fly?
      On what wings to us do speed,
      A Dashboard to hold small things we need?

      And what shoulder and what art,
      Can automate the things that aren't?
      Why it's Automator - pretty sweet!
      Should I buy it? In a beat!

      As you can tell by the last verse it's about time for me to give up :-)
  • List of Devices? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jmenezes ( 100986 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:23PM (#12149539) Homepage
    Seeing as how I'm in the process of looking for a new phone, is there a list of soon-to-be supported devices?
  • Well... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <> on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:23PM (#12149540)
    The "rumour sites" have been saying that the recent build was going to be the GM... aaaaaand... WWDC *is* coming up. (June 6-10) AND Steve Jobs did say something about it being ready during the first half of 2005.

    Coincidence? Maybe. :P Someone jumping the gun a bit and showing off 10.4 when they're probably not supposed to? Likely. ;)
    • Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CmdrStone ( 717243 )
      Actually, every rep I spoke with, freely answered questions, except for the release date. The openly stated that all the computers they had on display were running 10.4. It occurs to me now the I did not as specifically if that included the XServes they had on display.
    • Apple images ALL the demo machines, and puts very SPECIFIC builds on them. If a machine is plugged into to the Union's power strip on the floor, you can rest assured that it was APPROVED to be shown on the floor.
  • by sulli ( 195030 ) * on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:24PM (#12149548) Journal
    Let's hope he doesn't keep his contact list and amateur pr0n synced à la Paris Hilton.
  • by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <> on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:25PM (#12149558)
    GTC = Government Technology Conference, held around this time in Sacramento, CA.

    Chances are, they're showcasing 10.4 to Government buyers. This is not uncommon, actually. I saw the iMac at the GTC expo months before the unit was available to the public. At that time, it was 1 of only 7 completed iMacs - Apple was more than happy to showcase it to the Government & Educational buyers.

    Heck, Apple was showing 10.4 at booths at Macworld - why not? "Look what you can look forward to!" ;)
  • by standards ( 461431 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:29PM (#12149582)
    It isn't a surprise that Apple is now touting 10.4 (aka "Tiger") at the trade shows. It is very close to release - and although it has rumored to have "gone gold", its availability is still rumored to be several weeks away.

    In terms of iSync, it has been rumored that it will be upgraded to support more devices, but the precise list has not been made available. Hopefully device manufacturers are smart enough to get their (favored) phones represented in the list of devices they sell... but clearly, some manufacturers are sunsetting a bunch of devices - and so the financial advantage of iSync support for end-of-life products is dubious.
    • It's not "10.4 (aka 'Tiger')." Tiger isn't a nickname or a code name. The actual name of the product is "Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger."

      It's a branding thing. People respond more and more quickly to names than they do to numbers.

      Thus ends my utterly irrelevant trivia post for the day.
  • by CajunArson ( 465943 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:32PM (#12149590) Journal
    And Tiger was on display. Although the Apple guys were tight lipped about whether it was official or not (don't fire anyone Steve they didn't spill the beans!)
    Even more interesting from my perspective was that from the talks I had with them, their server line and the X-raid stuff is starting to garner a lot more interest in government areas that were previously closed to anything related to Apple. I'd seen their stuff online, but once you get to see it first-hand and see the prices it's difficult to see why this stuff is so freakin' cool.
  • by SteelV ( 839704 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:34PM (#12149604)
    I want to get a power book as soon as tiger comes out on them (probably not for a few months, regardless). Is there some way to find out what devices are supported, so I can make sure to get a cellphone that is? Also, if i got a cell phone with a 128 meg card like this one (motorola E398 []), will I be able to back up many of my text documents (as in almost all of them, up to the storage capacity) using iSync to the phone, or just contact info?

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Apparently, Tiger still can't share [] its internet connection to Bluetooth devices though. This is so bad for us with PDAs. :(

    You can share your Bluetooth connection *to* wifi/eth0, but you can't share your wifi/modem/eth0 *to* Bluetooth devices. And all the third party hacks are just not reliable.

    Apparently Linux can do it [] reliably.

    • You can setup a PPP server, though, and connect through that with most PDAs.
    • That's not true. Since Mac OS X is simply a Unix under the hood, all you need is to set up a Bluetooth serial port (can be done in System Settings) and let pppd run on that port. I have that setup running here without problems (similar to this [] actually). If Eugenia can't manage it, it doesn't mean that it is impossible. Of course it's another thing if you complain that this is not possible via a nice System Settings panel, I give you that.
    • by As Seen On TV ( 857673 ) <> on Wednesday April 06, 2005 @02:51AM (#12151689)
      Have you gotten a good answer on this yet? From skimming it looks like you haven't. Let me help.

      Internet sharing on the Mac works through DHCP. When you turn on Internet sharing on a given interface, an instance of the DHCP server is launched bound to that interface and the kernel is configured to route packets from that interface to the default route.

      Bluetooth doesn't work like that. There's no IP-over-Bluetooth. Instead, Bluetooth works like a serial port. While yes, you can certainly shuttle IP over serial using PPP, that's not how the Mac's Internet sharing works.

      Why not? Because exactly zero people have submitted feature requests. At this point, the feature list for Mac OS X is so deep, a feature has to be requested by tens of thousands of people before it bubbles up to the top.

      So if you get together with 19,999 of your closest friends and submit requests to Radar, I'm sure we'll get right on it.

      I know this sounds elitist, but the bottom line is that we only have so many programmers. They can't scratch every user's every itch. If we tried ... well, frankly, we'd be shipping a product with tons of bugs, no documentation and zero user experience. There are already products like that out there. Lots of people like them. Maybe one would be better for you.
      • I don't think it is as complicated as you seem to describe it.

        What stops you from starting natd and adding two rules to ipfw to route all packets between the interface associated with your WAN connection, eg. eth0 and whichever interface is associated with your bluetooth device, eg. ppp0.

        I did this back in the day of OSX 10.1 when there was no internet sharing option in the network preference panel and it worked just fine.

        The guys as still have the HOWTO article online from the time when there
        • What stops you? The fact that that's a massively stupid thing to have to do to a computer.

          Look, I understand your point. "Just do it this way, it's simple." But I would never, ever recommend something like that to a Mac user. The fact that it's possible doesn't mean it's something to brag about. If you're happy with an answer like that, you're probably not a Mac user. You're probably happy with something like Linux already. And frankly, if that's the case, you wouldn't be asking. You would already know how
  • OS X Liger (Score:4, Funny)

    by Absentminded-Artist ( 560582 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:39PM (#12149641) Homepage
    Rumor Site: What the next OS you're releasing? Apple: OS X Liger. Rumor Site: What's a liger? Apple: It's pretty much our favorite OS. It's like Panther and Tiger mixed... bred for its skills in magic. Rumor Site: Oooooh
  • Mac OS X?

    I always thought Chip was a Linux user?
  • FACT! (Score:2, Funny)

    by derniers ( 792431 )
    FACT! Ligers actually exist (despite their whimsical use in Napoleon Dynamite): ger.html [] FWIW: I'm also waiting on the release of 10.4 before ordering a powerbook
  • by doormat ( 63648 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:48PM (#12149693) Homepage Journal
    Because Apple is introducing new versions of lots of software at NAB for video editing and whatnot (shake, etc). NAB starts next tuesday.
  • by RatBastard ( 949 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:52PM (#12149711) Homepage
    You know what I'd like to see supported with iSync? Plain old USB thumb/jump/key/etc... drives.
  • Acronyms by osmosis? (Score:5, Informative)

    by michaeldot ( 751590 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @08:59PM (#12149763)
    How are people supposed to "just know" the acronyms that pop up?

    I didn't have a clue what FOSE stood for. I clicked the link to its home page, and not once is it defined there.

    A quick Google search fixed this (FOSE - Federal Office Systems Exposition) but really: are things like this so commonly known that they don't need to be defined?
    • Agreed. I really hate it when I receive a conference announcement, and after reading it, have absolutely no idea what the conference is about. In those cases, I'd think the people publicizing the conference would want people to know just what is being advertised. This is a little different, being a story about the conference rather than an announcement trying to attract people to it, but it's still the same problem...

    • True. I didn't know what FOSE was until reading your post.

      Another weird thing is this whole "learning by osmosis" phrase. I guess I first it in 6th or 7th grade science class when I learned what osmosis was, and never understood the phrase.

      Osmosis is the transfer of _water_ through a semi-permeable membrane. I don't get where putting cellulose (wood or paper) on your head will even metaphorically promote "learning by osmosis". I can see learning by diffusion, but I guess that does not sound as smart a
    • I've worked for the Federal Government for 10 years, and I didn't know what it stood for. So I went to the site to try to find a definition for the acronym... and found nothin!

      This Google query confirms that the definition of the acronym is nowhere to be found at t ems%22& []
  • What's the Hold Up? (Score:5, Informative)

    by buckhead_buddy ( 186384 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @09:08PM (#12149798)
    If Apple's internal teams have gone final (and that's a big IF) it's not uncommon for a release to still be waiting on:
    • notification of changes in code licensed from a vendor or third-party
    • a multiple week soak time after the code freeze to discover bugs (eat your own dog food for a while)
    • exhaustive documentation of the final changes (both to users and developers)
    Even if all of this has been finalized as the rumors indicate, there are still other reasons why a release would be delayed after going final, including:
    • Finding the best marketing opportunity to make the introduction (which I know little of).
    • Ensuring that one's unfinished hardware has only expected problems and incompatabilities (if any at all).
    • Letting the application teams (Final Cut, iWork, iLife, etc) get their work fully compliant before release (the market does have higher expectations for Apple authored apps).

    While the Mac rumor sites have been speculating on an early release of Tiger since it was announced last June, I don't think that their rumor-mongering does anything to speed up its release and quite possibly:

    • delays distribution of the gold master to developers.
    • delays the public announcement until Apple is seen as the one setting the expectations rather than the rumor sites.
    • makes open discussion of releases beyond Tiger even more secretive.
    Personally, I'm still running Panther. I've got a backup plan, blank media, and a time estimate of about 3 days downtime needed to transition to Tiger and test my setup once it comes out. Beyond that, I've made no plans that depend on an unreleased or rumored feature. I'm anxious for that release date to get here, but I'm prepared as well as I can whether that date is tomorrow or June 30th.
    • 3 days? How many OS X upgrades have you gone through?

      Plan on 3 hours. But back up everything!
      • Three days is the total time I can be without my Mac if something goes horribly wrong with a peripheral or app that I can't live without. I hope the upgrade to Tiger will go without a hitch, but I'm planning for disaster in case something like my Internet router upgrades itself to incompatible firmware or my printer stops working and it has to be set up to print via a Windows box.

        The time for the backup, clean install, reinstall of apps, reconfiguring of prefs is about a half day. The extra time is so th

        • Why go through all the hassle of reinstalling? Why not get a 2nd HD and just use Carbon Copy Cloner to duplicate your perfectly-working setup prior to the upgrade?

          That'll take maybe 30 minutes (just be sure to quit all running apps prior to starting up CCC). Booting off of it, to verify it boots, then switching back to your original boot drive, should take another 5. If you have any custom folders off the root, be sure to copy them over at this time, but the standard OSX folders will get copied (applicatio
    • A suggestion: Buy a second hard drive. Make it exactly the same as your main hard drive, if possible, or if not, make it bigger. Then buy a little program called Super Duper which exists solely for the purpose of creating incremental clones of your system disk. Run it every day or so.

      That way you always have a working backup drive.

      So OS updates are easy. Just blast one of the two drives and install the new release on it. Copy files from the old backup drive as necessary. Worst case, just reboot from the o
  • by meme_police ( 645420 ) on Tuesday April 05, 2005 @09:10PM (#12149814)
    ...this []before allowing their vendors to add more crappy conduits and then taking forever to fix their old root exploitable ones.
  • It's great that he could bridge to his 9500 and connect, but I guess one could also just run the Symbian version of PuTTY [] as well. I use it and it works great on my 9500.
  • ...are now moving in your direction.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It's great that the list of supported devices is expanded and everything, but do you suppose Apple could get their iSync Palm Conduit to work a little better? I wouldn't mind if they could get the devices they currently support to work better before they start adding support for every phone on the planet.
  • by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Wednesday April 06, 2005 @12:36AM (#12151139) Journal
    ... acronyms and missing info in titles, and usually they're just being tools. But for this story, I think it would help to say "Mac OS X 10.4" instead of just "10.4". At least it had the "Apple: " part prefixing it.

  • release date? (Score:4, Informative)

    by gphinch ( 722686 ) on Wednesday April 06, 2005 @02:20PM (#12156883) Homepage
    Well I preordered Tiger from ($35 mail-in rebate and another $30 off for getting an Amazon Visa, how could I say no at that price) and on my invoice the shipping date is "between May 31, 2005 and May 31, 2005"

    The cat's out of the bag?

"If the code and the comments disagree, then both are probably wrong." -- Norm Schryer