Experimental Transistor Breaks 600 Gigahertz 381
neutron_p writes "The goal of a terahertz transistor for high-speed computing and communications applications could now be within reach. A new type of transistor structure, invented by scientists at the University of Illinois, has broken the 600 gigahertz speed barrier.
A new type of transistor - built from indium phosphide and indium gallium arsenide - is designed with a compositionally graded collector, base and emitter to reduce transit time and improve current density. With their pseudomorphic heterojunction bipolar transistor, the researchers have demonstrated a speed of 604 gigahertz - the fastest transistor operation to date."
Transistor Breaks 600 Gigahertz (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Transistor Breaks 600 Gigahertz (Score:5, Funny)
At times like this I like to leave a slashdot page open on articles and walk away from my computer.
Anybody walking past my computer looks at the screen and thinks 'JESUS! How clever is that guy?'
Re:Transistor Breaks 600 Gigahertz (Score:3, Funny)
640GHz should be fast enough for anyone...
But... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:But... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sort of like with gold jewelry. It's too expensive for many people, so they mix in other metals to reduce the price.
I suppose this is a joke, but pure gold is rather soft. mixing it with other materials makes it hard enough to survive normal use.
Re:But... (Score:3, Informative)
This is one just one of many reasons why silicon chip manufacturing is such an environmental nightmare....
huh (Score:5, Funny)
*blank stare*
What now? It's pronounced nu-cu-lar!
Re:huh (Score:5, Funny)
[sarcasm]
Thank GOD they got this one right! If they would have invented a pseudomorphic homojunction bipolar transistor, the right-wing would have gotten pissed.*
[/sarcasm]
*If you're offended by the above, bugger off.
Re:huh (Score:2)
Re:huh (Score:3, Funny)
Bipolar? (Score:5, Funny)
Sure...it's fast now, but just wait until it goes into its depressive phase...
Re:Bipolar? (Score:2)
Re:Bipolar? (Score:2)
I wonder .. (Score:2)
Hey! (Score:2)
(no offense actually taken)
Re:Bipolar? (Score:2)
What, MS has Windows running on it already?
Re:Bipolar? (Score:3, Funny)
you mean when it's asked to run windows? ;)
Terahertz transistor within reach? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Terahertz transistor within reach? (Score:2)
Re:Terahertz transistor within reach? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Terahertz transistor within reach? (Score:2)
Re:Terahertz transistor within reach? (Score:2)
I typically don't bother optimizing something unless I believe I can make it 10 times faster. That is, unless we really need every last ounce of performance (which is rarely).
Re:Terahertz transistor within reach? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, because unlike software engineering electrical engineering has to do with physics. For instance, the engineering required to crank up PCI-Express from 2.5 Gb/s to 10 Gb/s basically requires a complete reengineering of the whole physical layer circuitry.
It doesn't have to do with the semiconductors so much as the physics of the wires, which really
Longhorn (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Longhorn (Score:3, Funny)
In other news, Satan is asking for more engineer's souls to design a device to fight back the record low temperatures.
Re:Longhorn (Score:2, Interesting)
I call this the race to Google. It is a test for how long it takes for a desktop machine to actually become useable. This is usually a better measure than the ambiguous "boots in x seconds", that we often see. Here is how to perform the test.
Take any modern linux distro you like and install it as a dual boot with Windows XP. Now time how long it takes from pressing <enter> in grub (or Lilo if you are so inclined) and when you can see the main Google page. Try this with both Linux an
Re:Longhorn (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Longhorn (Score:3, Funny)
OMG! (Score:2, Funny)
Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:3, Informative)
That speed is dependent on the "critical path"s of the chip's logic systems & subsystems, the switching speed of a single transistor is merely a factor in that equation.
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:5, Insightful)
Bipolar eats power.
I think these transistors, if found to be manufacturable, will probably be used in communications not digital logic.
Raydude
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. The transistors used for digital circuits (i.e., computers) are mostly MOSFETs. The chief benefit of MOS transistors is that no current goes into the gate, so power is only used when switching from one state to the other (i.e. from a 1 to a 0).
Bipolar transistors have a base current (albeit small), so they draw power even when responding to a constant signal. However, they're faster and can output a lot more current than MOSFETs, so they do have plenty of other applications.
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:5, Informative)
By heterodyning with (multiplying by) a lower frequency. Look up formula for sin(at) x sin(bt).
Note also that harmonics of a given frequency can be created by passing it through a nonlinearity.
Second answer (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:5, Informative)
fMax of a pipeline stage is 1/(switching times+wiring delays) under worst case thermal conditions. The wiring delays will stay about the same unless they're also improved by the new process, which is unlikely.
A 600GHz transistor, with really deep pipelines like the P4, and very good interconnect technology might allow 20-50GHz operation; but there are many other things to contend with (like thermals/dissipation) that can limit speed. Thermals, in turn, depend on the amount of capacitance being switched, which isn't specified here.
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:2)
"If they had a room temperature super conductor they could put in there, it would be easier to say."
Why? liquid nitrogen is cheap
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:2)
And will that CPU dissipate 1.21 jiggawatts of power?
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:3, Informative)
-Jesse
Re:Not being an EE geek...let me ask a question (Score:2, Informative)
HOWEVER, there is no way the chip would actually get that close - this 604GHz oscillator is probably a single ring on a chip containing many oscillators. The average speed could easily be more in the 400-500GHz range.
Also, these transistors are BJTs, which are useless in very large xtor count chips due to t
English please? (Score:2, Funny)
compositionally graded collector, base and emitter
pseudomorphic heterojunction bipolar transistor
Power usage? (Score:2, Insightful)
What's the power usage on this thing? For one transistor it doesn't matter too much, but remember that todays chips have billions of transitors in them- Intel's Prescott core is rediculously power comsumpive right now. Even worse, over 100 watts of the power is lost to heat! So, what's the power and thermal design power of these things?
Re:Power usage? (Score:5, Insightful)
For all practical purposes, ALL the power is "lost" to heat. Information has SOME thermodynamic value, but it's pretty damn small.
If you have a computer that draws 500 watts of power, you have a 499.99999(etc) watt heater.
Re:Power usage? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Power usage? (Score:2, Informative)
I work at the local computer repair shop while going to school, and right now we check every incoming system for bristling capacitors. About 25% of the time they have bad capacitors. Why? Heat from the CPU is causing them to overheat, expand, and become useless.
If you haven't looked at your own motherboard recently, make a point to. Capacitors should have entirely flat tops. Anything else means they are on
Re:Power usage? (Score:3, Interesting)
-Jesse
Re:Power usage? (Score:2)
Re:Power usage? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Power usage? (Score:2)
These type of transistors are good for amplifying signals and buffering signals. Basically, if the transistor couldn't operate at 600Ghz then a 600Ghz signal would simply be filtered out because the transistor would be too slow.
To answer the power question these things won't be packed in together with millions of other
Just like Illinois (Score:4, Funny)
And then... (Score:3, Funny)
And then MIT will loose to the high school kids from Phoenix [wired.com].
Another Fast Transistor (Score:5, Informative)
The truth is that nothing will replace CMOS anytime soon. The infrastructure is already there, and it is being optimized over and over again and has a huge work force to man it.
I once heard someone ask Intel is they ever plan to switch to HBT for speed. Their response is, and will probably be for a while, that why would they switch technologies after investing $50 billion a year in their CMOS foundries etc.
These advancements may never make it to the point that the average consumer will take notice of them.
And it may be that these academic inventions will never find any market relevance.
CMOS logic isn't the only product (Score:4, Insightful)
How about the RF modulators/demodulators in all cell-phones, the RF amps in same, the special-purpose chips, regulators, detectors, buffers, amplifiers, etc that mfgrs still crank out by the butt-load, etc?
Personally, I'd really get off on an op-amp designed around these puppies! Imagine the gain-bandwidth product (eff-sub-Tee)!
Re:CMOS logic isn't the only product (Score:2, Informative)
But yes, there will be more indium phosphide op-amps, as there are currently on the market, aimed towards the high speed communications market.
the consumer benefits from competition (Score:3, Interesting)
why would they switch technologies after investing $50 billion a year in their CMOS foundries etc.
Hopefully, competition.
Article text please! (Score:2)
Re:Article text please! (Score:3, Informative)
Pseudomorphic heterojunction bipolar transistor? (Score:4, Funny)
Availability of materials (Score:2, Interesting)
Will material prices be the main determining cost of chips made from these products?
I didn't RTFA -- it was slashdotted.
Re:Availability of materials (Score:2)
Zero gain bandwidth (Score:5, Interesting)
This sounds an awful lot like they are giving the zero-gain bandwidth of the transistor - the frequency at which the transistor does NOT amplfy a signal anymore.
So, at 599GHz the transistor will amplify a little. At 600 GHz the transistor takes as much power to drive the input as it is able to switch at the output. At 601 GHz the transistor takes more power to control than it can switch.
Given a 600 GHz zero-gain bandwidth transistor you ARE NOT going to make a 600 GHz clockspeed processor.
Re:Zero gain bandwidth (Score:3, Funny)
I dont think so. (Score:2)
Both intel und amd have already demonstrated transistors with transition frequences (or a zero gain bandwith as you call it) of more than 2 THz (IIRC, the fastest one was 3.something THz, with a double base design).
So i dont think this would be worth mentioning if 600GHz were the transition frequency, so i guess its an actual usable for extreme HF signal processing.
I remember when... (Score:2, Interesting)
But seriously, a previous poster had a point, what's the relationship between the speed of a transitor and the speed of a proccessor? Because 600GHz is a HUGE jump over 3.4GHz. If there's a 1:1 ratio, then a proccsoor of with 600GHz transistors would have 176 tiems the proccessing power over the current breed. A Beowolf cluster in a single chip!
Re:I remember when... (Score:4, Informative)
The transistors in a 3.4 GHz chip are capable of switching faster than 3.4 GHz. The chip as a whole runs at that particular speed because heat dissipation becomes problematic at higher speeds. The individual components are there, but we haven't figured out how to put them all together yet to achieve higher speeds. A processor is MUCH more complicated than a single transistor... Don't expect to see 600 GHz chips made out of 600 GHz transistors. Once we get to 10 THz transistors, you might start thinking about 600 Ghz chips...
600 GHz Barrier (Score:2, Funny)
600Ghz for short periods... (Score:2, Funny)
bipolar transistor (Score:2, Funny)
What are the environmental impacts? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What are the environmental impacts? (Score:3, Insightful)
It looks like .. (Score:2, Funny)
Scope This (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Scope This (Score:5, Informative)
I know special methods exist to predict the f_s from low-frequency measurements. Maybe they measure the amplification at a some 'low' frequencies (GHz range) and extrapolate the gain-bandwidth pruduct from this?
Re:Scope This (Score:3, Informative)
How do you measure 604 gigahertz? (Score:5, Interesting)
How does one measure 604 gigahertz? Just asking.
Re:How do you measure 604 gigahertz? (Score:3, Funny)
I'm not entirely sure on the specifics, but rumor has it you need 1.21 gigawatts.
Re:How do you measure 604 gigahertz? (Score:2)
Re:How do you measure 604 gigahertz? (Score:5, Informative)
You may not be able to see a single one-picosecond pulse in the time domain, but if you fire off a bunch of them in succession, you can build a picture of the waveform with repetitive sampling techniques. Technology was available in the 1960s to perform repetitive sampling in the 20-picosecond regime, so someone like Tek or Agilent or Picosecond Pulse Labs may have a sampling gate that can do the job.
I would recommend surfing around at PPL [picosecond.com]'s site if you're seriously interested in this stuff. There may also be some photonic tech involved in the measurement; I haven't RTFA yet.
Re:How do you measure 604 gigahertz? (Score:3, Informative)
Stop making things up (Score:2)
So sad (Score:2)
Yeah, I have a family member who's bipolar, so I can relate.
Yes, but.. (Score:2)
Cool, but .... (Score:2)
7% increase in 2 1/2 years -- WOW! (Score:3, Interesting)
CPUs have stalled out at about 4ghz overall clocking, cutting edge transistors seem to be hitting a wall at about 500-600ghz.
Now granted faster gate transitions make for faster CPUs, but multiple gate operations are necessary for each state change, add signaling and propagation delay and who knows what you can really clock the CPU at (I am not an Electrical Engineer).
Here is a page link claiming a record 562ghz transistor switching in Oct. 2002 article [compoundse...ductor.net]
here is another claimed record of 509ghz, Nov, 2003 article [stilyagi.org]
Obviously at odds with the 2002 anoucment. Undoubtedly it should narrow its claim for a specific transistor type.
Here is a U of I annoucment calming a record 382 ghz Jan. 30, 2003 article [suntimes.com]
But expects 700ghz by early 2004 (I'm guessing they didn't make it).
Lets assume 562ghz in 2002, so we - drum roll please --- 7.5% increase in speed in 2 ½ years!
This is not going to keep Moore's Law humming along.
Even stranger, here are claims of TerraHertz transistors at Intel in 2002 article [pctechguide.com]
Ironically, while googling for transistor or gate speed will show hundreds of hits, you can't actually find the switching speed for individual gates in a P4 or AMD chip. This stuff seems to be super secret stuff, and only the overall CPU clock it published. I wouldn't be surprised if the individual gates and transistors are transitioning at several dozens of ghz if not a couple of hundred or more. While Moore's Law death claims may have been premature 10 and 20 years ago, they may not be now.
I hope I'm wrong, I want my Holodeck Playstation 5 in 2015.
Yikes. (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds like it needs to see a doctor!
In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, and just to piss off right-wing Windows users, Steve has decided to celebrate 29 years of Apple with a retro pricing scheme of $666 for "Hellspawn," as the new system has been code-named.
An Apple representative did not deny the story, saying that "company policy is not to comment on unannounced products." Clearly, it must be true.
p
Pet peeve (Score:3, Interesting)
But there's no "barrier" at 600 GHz or any other nice round number. It's just a number, and I wish tech writers and marketeers would quit using the "barrier" word in cases like this.
Kids Cartoon Villains team up (Score:4, Funny)
Pseudomorphic, the evil gang leader, has invented a new device to break through the barrier. "I will cause the failure of all the communication devices and computers." He cries. His sidekick, Heterojunction, says "I will collect the indium the we need to finish our ultimate machine!"
Pseudo's girlfriend, Bipolar Transistor, has a bag full of arsenide and is on the lookout to kill anyone foolish enough to interfere.
Milton stealthily invades the enemy base, where he overhears that the Terahertz gang will strike the bandgap in selected areas. After he finds this out, he speeds his electron flow to warn the others.
But what he doesn't know is that while his group of heroes is made of dissimilar and equally spunky men, the Pseudomorphic has his gang thoroughly doped.
Can our hero improve the compositional grading of the transistor components enough?
Or will the PseudoMoprh defeat them with his awesome signal charging time?
Find out on the next episode of "Moore's Law"!
-Ben
Re:Yay! (Score:2)
Re:Is this a UIUC comeback? (Score:3, Insightful)
First of all, this transistor was developed in the ECE dept, not CS.
As for CS, we're not droping in rankings. On the other hand, we shall be climbing very soon. We have the highest percentage (and number) of young faculty of any CS program in the world. I give us 2-4 years before you see the results of the rampant hiring over the past 2-3 years (15+ new faculty members), who are all pushing to get tenure over the next half-decade.
Finally, Mosaic, the o
Re:People need to get their terms straight. (Score:3, Informative)
I thought that was velocity. AFAIK, "speed" can also be used to mean "rapidity", that is how fast something happens. OTOH, "velocity" can only be used to mean how fast something moves, which is the definition you mention.
Re:People need to get their terms straight. (Score:2)
Re:What's the ROE for it, though? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Even if we make processors with 600+ GHz... (Score:2)
Re:Cost (Score:2)
Re:Star Trek Script? (Score:3, Informative)
This actually makes perfect sense to me. One of the specializations I took at school was electronic devices, which details the flow of electrons in semiconductors. I'll try to explain it. It's a tough job without pictures.
Indium Phosphide and Indium Gallium Arsenide are the materials used to construct the device. Generic transistors use Silicon, and you've no doubt heard of Gallium Arsenide. These are just made from a different material.
The collector, base, a