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GUI Software Input Devices Microsoft Hardware

Microsoft Proposes Thumb-Driven Interfaces 153

Posted by timothy from the nintendo-ahead-of-the-game dept.
bonch writes "Microsoft Research has demonstrated examples of two thumb-driven interfaces for handhelds proposed a few weeks ago. Today's devices require the use of two hands; Microsoft wants to reduce this to one. Usability tests showed, however, that some users had difficulty adjusting to the thumb movements. Full researcher's report here."
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Microsoft Proposes Thumb-Driven Interfaces More

Microsoft Proposes Thumb-Driven Interfaces

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  • Discrimination (Score:5, Funny)

    by y0bhgu0d ( 168149 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:06PM (#12262582)
    It is of my opinion that these new technologies are being put forth by Microsoft to quite openly mock those without thumbs.

    I see through your ruse, Microsoft! HA! WHAT NOW??

  • TDA? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Bananatree3 ( 872975 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:06PM (#12262584)
    This sounds extremely familure to the already-on-market TDA (Tactile Digital assistant) [gizmodo.com]. Is this a Microsoft copycat?

    • Re:TDA? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mingrassia ( 49175 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:44PM (#12262804)
      >> This sounds extremely familure to the already-on-market TDA (Tactile Digital assistant).
      >> Is this a Microsoft copycat?
      This idea is similar but not a copycat. From TFA ...

      "Current handhelds generally require the use of two hands: device in one hand, stylus in the other. Microsoft hopes to allow future devices to be used with a single hand."

      The two UIs created and their research takes into account the limited range of motion of your thumb and designs a UI that can be used with one hand.

      The Jackito-TDA is simply a normal PDA with bigger buttons so you can use two thumbs to operate things [jackito-pda.com].

      Besides, the TDA is still not "already-on-market" as you put it. The article that you linked to mentions that it was considered vapor ware. Even the buy it now page on the Jakito wesbite [jackito-pda.com] still lists it as only taking pre-orders.
  • It seems that microsoft is looking to have some kind of setup like apples iPod, but for a PDA. This might be a problem for some though, my thumb is gigantic so trying to make precision movements might be difficult.

    • This might be a problem for some though, my thumb is gigantic so trying to make precision movements might be difficult.

      This is never a problem for good design. Take for instance, the Gameboy. Nintendo has done plenty enough research from the very first to the DS as to where to position the buttons and to what thickness the device needs to be. Everyone from 4 year-olds to burly steel worker hands find the Gameboy usable (quite obviously by sales but also when put to the test by reviewers).

      Being Micros

  • Two hands?! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:07PM (#12262591)
    I can handle both a trackpad and a trackpoint very well with one hand - a finger for the pointer and a finger or thumb for the button(s). Ive been doing this for years. How is this new?

    • Re:Two hands?! (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      While your other hand holds the device... this is for small devices you hold, think phone/pda, not a laptop you sit on a desk (or toast your balls with).

  • One handed PDA browsing? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Michalson ( 638911 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:07PM (#12262596)
    Ever use a Palm (outside of the low end Zire models) in the last 2-3 years?

  • Ah, I see. (Score:3, Funny)

    by ShaniaTwain ( 197446 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:08PM (#12262602) Homepage
    This must be for people who are all thumbs around technology.. now if only they could develop something for people with two right feet..

  • innovation? (Score:5, Funny)

    by justforaday ( 560408 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:08PM (#12262603)
    Today's devices require the use of two hands; Microsoft wants to reduce this to one.

    Who says porn doesn't drive innovation in the computer industry?

    • Re:innovation? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Jorkapp ( 684095 ) <jorkapp&hotmail,com> on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:43PM (#12262796)
      Porn also fuels spending and upgrades in the industry. Think about it:

      People want porn faster - ISP's upgrade equipment to provide faster connections.

      As the amount of people with faster connections rises, so does the quality and hence the file size of the porn.

      As the file sizes get larger and larger, the time it takes to acquire them gets longer, and people want them faster. So, the cycle repeats again.

      Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
      • as tongue-in-cheek as it is, it's quite true (though not exclusive to porn, more in internet media in general) . . . someone mod parent up! I evision 50% Insightful, 50% Funny.

  • Actually a really big improvement (Score:4, Funny)

    by mrRay720 ( 874710 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:09PM (#12262609)
    The one thumb interface is significantly better than the three finger salute.

    It's not every day we get a 3x improvement in productivity!

  • Thumb-driven interfaces?... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by meringuoid ( 568297 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:09PM (#12262610)
    ... Like a mobile? Like an iPod?

    I bet when they patent it it'll be broad enough that both the above are covered.

  • i guess (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sv-Manowar ( 772313 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:10PM (#12262617) Homepage Journal
    I guess this won't help the generation who are growing up using their thumbs as fingers due to mobile phones.

    It's good to see Microsoft being innovative towards something they had previously not been, It's always good to see original ideas going into practice, and new ways to operate products.

  • new tech (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ceejayoz ( 567949 ) <cj@ceejayoz.com> on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:10PM (#12262618) Homepage Journal
    Usability tests showed, however, that some users had difficulty adjusting to the thumb movements.

    So, usability tests showed a bit of a learning curve on a new, very different way of doing things?

    Fancy that.
    • Not sure if you were joking, or if you just read things fast without trying to figure out what they meant (first-post syndrome).

      What this statement means is some people have trouble comfortably making their required movements with their thumbs. If that's the case it means it's a shortcoming in the interface's design. It's got very little to do with learning the motion.
      • What this statement means is some people have trouble comfortably making their required movements with their thumbs.

        It seems to me that the thumb never really evolved for precision movements. Now the pointer finger, maybe. But thumb, no, and pinky, even less so.
  • If they want something usable in one hand wouldn't a scrollball/joystick on the back be the way to go?
    • On the sides. Jogwheel or paired buttons and a "go" button on either side. Then hold the device normally... now you can scroll normally with either hand, and make the button opposite the "go" button a "menu" button. A handheld doesn't have a large enough screen to make 2d navigation essential... just scroll through menus and hit "go" or "menu" for submenus.

  • I'm all thumbs today. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Spudley ( 171066 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:12PM (#12262628) Homepage Journal

    Well, whaddya know? Mircrothoft does thumbtimeth come up with good ideath.

    • Re:I'm all thumbs today. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by linguae ( 763922 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:42PM (#12262789)

      I know you're trying to be funny, but Microsoft's research is very interesting. I don't know if its on the level of the old Bell Labs, but many of the stuff is very interesting. See for yourself [slashdot.org] to see what I mean. That is where most of the innovation seem to stem from. Too bad I haven't seen much of their research being used in their latest Windows and Office offerings, though.

      The thing to remember about Microsoft, though, is that the marketing department, not the actual engineers, seems to run the company. Microsoft is so into destroying the competition that sometimes the implementation of their products get a bit sloppy, because of rushed deadlines, demands from the marketing department, and other issues. Look at history of Windows, for example. Windows didn't become fully stable until about Windows 2000, and they're still working on Windows's security (even though a competent user can deal with this with a firewall and Firefox).

      Even so, the quality of MS software has improved over the years. Windows is a stable operating system, Office is a great tool if you ignore Clippy, and Visual Studio is a very nice IDE. It might not be the most "innovative" software, but it works just fine for most tasks. I feel that the company is finally realizing that it should focus on making good quality software rather than just shipping an unpolished product. Now, this doesn't mean that I'm dumping *nix for Windows anytime soon, but anytime I must work on a Windows box, at least I feel a bit more comfortable.

      • The thing to remember about Microsoft, though, is that the marketing department, not the actual engineers, seems to run the company. Microsoft is so into destroying the competition that sometimes the implementation of their products get a bit sloppy[...]

        They're a monopoly. All monopolies act sluggish when external competitive pressure is removed. Engineers never run a company, because they're not the owners. Nor do marketers. The board of directors runs the company, and it is the board that sides with th

      • I don't know if its on the level of the old Bell Labs

        I know what you mean. On the one hand, we've got the transistor and UNIX and on the other there's "Clippy" and those menus that keep hiding their menu items.

        It's really a close call!

        It might not be the most "innovative" software, but it works just fine for most tasks.

        Yup, that would be pretty much the opposite of innovation.

        The funny thing is yours was the pro Microsoft post. :-)
      • The thing to remember about Microsoft, though, is that the marketing department, not the actual engineers, seems to run the company.

        I refer to Microsoft not as a computer company, but as a marketing company in the computer business.

        During the talk of the Microsoft breakup, I was thinking that instead of the proposed plan, MS should have been split into Marketing and everything else. Let's see them get out of that one :)
      • Too bad I haven't seen much of their research being used in their latest Windows and Office offerings, though.

        You have to buy a Mac [apple.com] to see Microsoft innovate. [microsoft.com] Sometimes Windows users are lucky and actually get some of it.

  • MS R&D inspired by: http://www.dsavenue.com/images/stories/News/DSeuro ad.jpg http://media.gigex.com/biz/images/articles/dstouch ad.jpg

  • Microsoft patents the thumb (Score:4, Funny)

    by oogoody ( 302342 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:15PM (#12262652)
    Chimps counter sue.
  • Means my cat won't get on it and mess up my settings! Take that, lower species!
  • that was a seriously decent one handed pointer device. Yeah, yeah, I know you have to use fingers to with those, but come on, your fingers are there because you're holding onto it in the first place, you might as well use em.
    • What do you mean "was"?
    • True - I mean, it was basically just the usual Thinkpad nubbin pointer thing, but it was nicely designed, as you say, so your fingers naturally rested on the buttons.

      My favourite example of "You'd think everyone would think about it, but they don't" was a friend's Sony Vaio laptop, with a trackpad and buttons beneath it. Your thumb rested naturally on the edge of the button...or so you thought, but that wasn't the button edge - it was the edging around the button, so you'd keep pressing it, and it wouldn'

  • this is actually kinda cool (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jessecurry ( 820286 ) <jesse@jessecurry.net> on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:24PM (#12262705) Homepage Journal
    despite the fact that none of this technology is ground breaking, it's nice to see new directions in interface design, I sure hope that the mouse doesn't end up being the best computer interface.
  • I can see this resulting in Microsoft applying for a patent on the use of thumbs to poke things with.

  • Ironic... (Score:2, Funny)

    by technix4beos ( 471838 ) *
    Anyone else notice how ironic it is that the name of one of their "technologies" pays homage to Apple?

    AppLens.

    Microsoft plays catch-up all the time. Perhaps now they're showing their respects? :P

  • THE Microsoft Gameboy! Brewhahahaha...BREWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  • how is this new? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by strider3700 ( 109874 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @12:31PM (#12262737)
    My current job is building a program for a handheld device. Because the unit will be used outdoors while the users are wearing gloves in winter I also came up with the idea of really big buttons on screen.

    The secret to writing easy to use applications for CE .Net or mobile devices is to completely ignore the programming standards as recommended by mircrosoft.

    Out main issue is finding hardware that is robust enough (IP67 should be tough enough, IP65 is not) with all the bells and wistles and most importantly they need a good keyboard for lots of data entry. The industry seems to be moving away from keyboard entry but if you're doing lots of data entry it is the only way to go. I've also found that units are failing tests that they are rated to survive easily.

    At this point It's almost looking like having custom units built is the way to go
  • This must be Bill's response to the fact that even a monkey [foxnews.com] could hack into an unpatched Windows box. ;)
  • Like making it easier to drive, while you read the paper, talk on your cell phone, and drink your coffee with ONE hand... have totally lost thier sense of priorities?
  • Not really sure about the thumbsconcept but last time Microsoft tried to generate a trend in hardware it failed miserably. The TabletPC was supposed to be the future of Notebooks but apart from some niches it never really took off. They seem to propse a new trend every two years but apart from their mice (scrollwheel, optical mice) I haven't seen any real hardware innovation from them for quite some time.

    • They've tried the Tablet PC at least a couple times. Back in the early 90s, it was Pen Computing for Windows. Eventually it'll either fly or they'll run out of new names for another go at it.

    • Re:Hrm. Remember the tablet PC? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Aphrika ( 756248 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:07PM (#12262943)
      I wouldn't say the Tablet PC has failed (I own one [hp.com], and I think it's an awesome device), but if the basic forms of computing gadget for the foreseeable future are limited to desktop, notebook and PDA and we're happy with that, then we may as well stop innovating now. I sure as hell don't want to be stuck with three form factors 20 years from now...

      Desktop computers, servers, laptops and phones have all started in their niche markets in the past, and I'm happy for MS to use their cash to kickstart market segments that may or may not yield results. In some cases, they might stumble on something worthwhile. A one-handed interface has benefits for in-car PCs, industrial devices, phones and related devices like touchscreens and mouse design. Long term, the aggregation of ideas from this with existing PDA and tablet technology might yield devices that appeal more to the mainstream.
  • And here I thought Microsoft already had us by the thumbs. [wikipedia.org]

  • Does is count when you use your thumb for hitchhiking when your Microsoft powered car breaks down?

  • I never owned a video game console, so maybe it's just not enough practice. But I could never get used to the multidirectional thumb thingies on Playstation controllers. I think it has to do with something about how the thumb physically moves; when I thought "straight left", my thumb ended up pushing mostly left and somewhat forward. The same kinda goes with my TiVo remote, though I think they designed it a little better. It's got a 4-direction button, and even if you push forward a little bit you usually
    • The microsoft xbox type S controllers' thumb sticks are alot better than the PS thumb stick. Now I'm starting a holy war between xbox and PS owners... Anyway the PS controllers are the worst things since windows95, only people who grew up with one in their hands like em. The xbox type S, not the giant orginal controller, fits like a glove and the thumb sticks have a pretty natural feel. Unlike the PS controllers with the thumb sticks unnaturally close together. The xbox controllers also have a little more

  • Repetitive strain problems doubled? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sbaker ( 47485 ) * on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:00PM (#12262895) Homepage
    It's bad enough that we have to dial phones and enter text messages with such a crappy interface. Going from two thumbs to one means that the devices are marginally cheaper - but it means that ALL of the work now happens with one thumb instead of two. It seems pretty likely that this will double the load on the thumb - making all sorts of repetitive strain problems more prevelant.

    We should be looking at technologies that allow you to use MORE fingers - not LESS.

  • I have a bad feeling about this... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Eminence ( 225397 ) <akbrandtNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:00PM (#12262899) Homepage
    I sense a lot of thumb injuries in the future...

    And I'm not kidding. I really prefer to use two hands rather than put additional strain on my thumbs.

  • Um, Treo? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:03PM (#12262912) Homepage
    Oh, this is on Brighthand. No wonder they think Microsoft is novel...

    Seriously, though, there's a good one-thumb or nearly one-thumb interface out there now on the palmOne Treo 650. (Not from Microsoft, of course, so they don't acknowledge it.) It's not perfect, but the learning curve is very low. It supports both one-thumb and two-thumb interaction, or stylus interaction if you want. However, with the thumbboard and good software integration I was able to go a week with it without using the stylus in any of the included programs.

    Sorry, MS, you're not being innovative. You're following palmOne. How sad is that. :-)
    • Mod parent up. He's totally correct. Also, the same can be said about the Treo 600, and many other Palm devices.

    • "Sorry, MS, you're not being innovative. You're following palmOne. How sad is that. :-)" Sorry Opensource, you're not being innovative, you're just following MS/Apple. How sad is that.
      • That was actually a minor slam against palmOne. Apple has a reputation of doing new and cool things. palmOne has a reputation of taking its dear sweet time to get around to some new idea, but doing a good job of it by the time they got there.

        That Microsoft is now following palmOne's lead is "man bites dog" news.

  • Thumbs down (Score:3, Interesting)

    by symbolic ( 11752 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:03PM (#12262916)

    I remember reading an article not too long ago that discussed problems people were having from extended use of their thumbs for things like text messaging, and gameboy-like appliances. The condition is now commonly referred to as "Nintendo Thumb". I guess Microsoft wants its share of this market as well.

  • Treo 650 is already very close. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ira Sponsible ( 713467 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:06PM (#12262937) Journal
    The PalmOne Treo 650 pda-phone is already very close to being a thumb-operated device. You can navigate almost everywhere and select almost anything using the 5-way navigational keypad, then there's the built-in hardware keyboard. I routinely use this device single-handedly, using only my thumb to navigate and enter text. It's actually pretty rare that I HAVE TO break out the stylus and tap something on the screen (usually my thumbnail is good enough). The bigest limit is the size of the keyboard is larger than the range of motion of my thumb, requiring slight shifting of the way I hold it in my hand as I'm using it, but I would not categorize that as a problem with the design as it's not something that is a nuisance to work with. Bottom line is, what is the innovation we're seeing from MS? We already HAVE this.
    • The 650 is incredibly hard to use with a single thumb. the navigation control doesn't always do what you want and you can't always click with your thumb accurately. Additionally, the keyboard is far too difficult to operate with any speed using a single hand. Unrelated perhaps, but the software is terribly unstable. Mine spontaneously reboot several times a day. PalmOS is also not multitasking and there's no "Back" concept. Apps don't really exit but you have to re-enter them like you launch them. Why c
  • Not having RTFA I don't know how MS wants people to use this, but if it's for all input, it won't be good.
    I used to use a trackball, and I ruined my righthand thumb. I can just operate my cellphone, but even though I haven't used it today, I still have a slight pain in my thumb.
  • I started thinking about how cool it would be to just plug your thumb DRIVE into an interface and it would boot off of that. I was fairly dissapointed when I read further.

    I still refuse to by a handheld until they start allowing me to plug my thumbdrive into it. I don't care about all the other crazy media formats, my thumbdrive is universal.
  • I've been using a thumbs only controller for years. Here's a picture...

    http://www.gamestop.com/common/images/lbox/900168b .jpg [gamestop.com]
  • Or, they could just wait until either eyetracking systems or that "nouse" system of using your nose as a mouse becomes practical for small devices.

    Even better, if they can integrate a system that reads input from electrodes implanted in your brain...That'll solve a lot of problems for these small devices
  • In other news, Microsoft gives you your veri=y first UFIA
  • Why don't they just cut to the chase and give us those cybernetic implants we were promised?

  • UI from hell (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zhe Mappel ( 607548 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:37PM (#12263125)
    Forget the thumb. Those UIs look like nightmares. Their sense of organization reminds me of the visual clutter popular in U.S. cable TV news broadcasts--the widest-possible-net theory of information design.

    Maybe this interface is right for someone (corporate drones, perhaps, whose work lives are drowned in minutaie). But when devices or broadcasts make you shuffle through a maelstrom of information to learn or get something done, you're submitting to someone else's taste for disorder.

  • RE:thumb-driven interfaces also known as hitchhiking

  • iPod? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by daishin ( 753851 )
    Today's devices require the use of two hands; Microsoft wants to reduce this to one.

    They call this an iPod, its worked with one thumb for years.

  • Thumb driven joysticks are pretty good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Xenna ( 37238 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:44PM (#12263165)
    I was thinking more along the lines of the thumb driven tiny joysticks on my Garmin Etrex Vista GPS, my Nokia 9300 and my mother's Konica X31 camera.

    I kinda like those, they're small, easy to control movement in 4 directions and can be pressed for enter. A pretty cool device for controlling menus with one thumb.

    X.

  • Very useful (Score:3, Funny)

    by FuturePastNow ( 836765 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @01:48PM (#12263201)
    Today's devices require the use of two hands; Microsoft wants to reduce this to one.

    That could be very useful for handheld devices that connect to the internet... one-handed browsing is simply a must for some people.
  • they wouldn't have an interface for the middle finger, no? I can think of good uses...
  • "Thumbs up their asses, Thumbs up their asses..."
  • I've actually been using the 3 finger interface for some time now. It involves 2 on the left hand, and 1 on the right hand, and is usually preceded by lots of swearing and gnashing of teeth, followed by long trips to the breakroom as the machine recovers from the swift but all too frequent action.

    But hey, if Microsoft wants to reduce this to 1 or 2 thumbs, so be it. Who am I to argue with the great minds from Redmond?
  • Here [ev1.net] is some prior art, in case Microsoft moves to patent such a terrific idea....

  • because they always have at least one thumb up their ass at any given time.

  • If prisoners can have internet connections, then so should the zoo.

    I really need to evolve thumbs and stop eating bananas.
  • Usability tests showed, however, that some users had difficulty adjusting to the thumb movements.

    Its common knowledge that most Microsoft users already have one thumb up their ass. MS - mission accomplished.

  • "Today's devices require the use of two hands; Microsoft wants to reduce this to one. Usability tests showed, however, that some users had difficulty adjusting to the thumb movements"

    Does anyone else find this amusing when compared to the Apple one button/two button mouse arguement?
  • As more and more people start to use mobile phones, its very possible that they become more familiar with interacting with computing devices via the thumb. I guess this is what microsoft is trying to tap into too. However, its interesting that people find it hard to adapt. If the study is done on already computer literate people, then is it any wonder people find it hard to adapt? Ever heard the saying, old dogs cant learn new tricks? I feel this study would be more valuable if done on thsoe people who rare
  • a Pocket PC window with scroll bars on the left side, so that we don't cover up the screen by tapping on the scrollbar. It is very annoying and there doesn't seem to be a fix for it. At least with a mouse I can put it on the other side of my keyboard and deal.

  • Reviews (Score:4, Funny)

    by metamatic ( 202216 ) on Sunday April 17, 2005 @08:26PM (#12265456) Homepage Journal
    Well, I'm sure Ebert and Roeper will like this new interface.
  • ...of this [jackito-pda.com]. Unfortunately, those guys have probably patented some of the basic ideas. I worry that it may be very hard to build an open-source PDA that works that way. They seem to have some very cool, original ideas though. At least, I assume it's original for Jackito.
  • There has been a lot of university research done on UI's. The "app lens" looks a bit like Jef Raskin's Zoomable UI. It looks almost exactly like something I saw linked from a Slashdot article about 3 years ago that I can't place.
  • > Today's devices require the use of two hands

    Bullshit, I can operate my iPod mini with just my thumb (plus some other fingers curled around to keep from dropping it).

    (BTW, I'm not a trolling Mac fanboy, it's the first piece of Apple equipment I have ever owned)

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