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Google Businesses The Internet

European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation 294

headisdead writes "A week after Google substantially improved their UK site, Deutsche-Welle carry the story that the a whole host of large European libraries (with the British Library's tacit support) have joined an EU-based digitisation project as a counter to Google's own library scheme. The project is the brainchild of BNF director Jean-Noel Jeanneney, a sort of mild-mannered Jose Bove for the librarians out there. Divisive pride, or healthy competition?"
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European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation

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  • by King_of_Prussia ( 741355 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:02AM (#12368713)
    I thin kthe main thing is that all these works will be preserved digitally, open for people to read whenever they want to. Anybody saying that this is a bad thing is just a hopeless google fanboi.
    • by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:04AM (#12368727) Homepage
      The day after they put their separate library on line, googlebot will index and assimilate it anyway...
      • Riiiight, like they assimilated that French agency's news (and got sued).

        And perhaps you might have heard of robots exclusion, too.
      • by registro ( 608191 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @03:19AM (#12369262)
        Libraries in the US are getting closer to censorship than ever. Take for example this new Alabama Bill targeting Gay Authors [cbsnews.com] from an elected Republican representative in the state legislature, Gerald "book-burying " Allen [guardian.co.uk]. Consider other minor incidents like the New Mexico Book burning party [guardian.co.uk]. Can you spot a trend?

        Google already succumbed to China censorship pressures [rfa.org]. Would they resist censorship pressures from the Christian right, inside the US? Yea, right, just like Microsoft did [slashdot.org].

        Don't fool yourself, folks. US companies are no longer a reliable for such a task. If Google is allow t create another de facto monopoly in Library Search, we risk gay books, Evolution volumes or the freaking Harry Potter adventures disappearing anytime now.
        Let me ask you, who's going to preserve Western Culture heritage if the US completes it's path towards fascism bushflash.com/14.html? India!? The Chinese!!? Well, apparently it's going to be the French. Good for them.
    • Next thing we know, someone's going to tell us how terrible Project Gutenberg is!
      • Consider this:

        'Republican Alabama lawmaker Gerald Allen says homosexuality is an unacceptable lifestyle. (...) under his bill, public school libraries could no longer buy new copies of plays or books by gay authors, or about gay characters.' (Alabama Bill targeting Gay Authors) [cbsnews.com]

        Yea, I know, its only gays getting humiliated/beaten/banned. They are not going after you anytime soon, right? [forbiddenlibrary.com]
    • Or a hopeless American jingoist. "Europeans want to digitise their libraries! ON THEIR OWN?!?"

      "Divisive pride." A "counter to Google's own library scheme." Psh. Way to miss the point, submitter.

      • by BlueFashoo ( 463325 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:02AM (#12368994)
        Try reading the article. It's from a German news site and frames the whole article in a nationalistic stance. Here are some choice quotes for you.


        But he added: "The real issue is elsewhere. And it is immense. It is confirmation of the risk of a crushing American domination in the definition of how future generations conceive the world."

        Google's plans have rattled the cultural establishment in Paris, raising fears that French language and ideas could be just sidelined on the worldwide web, already dominated by English.

        In a stand against a deal struck by five of the world's top libraries and Google to digitize millions of books, 19 European libraries have agreed to back a similar European project to safeguard literature.

        European Libraries Fight Google-ization


        That last one was the title. So before you dis the submitter, read the fucking article.

        It's a French idea to counter American Cultural Imperialism(TM)
        • No it's not. It's a French idea to preserve their culture.
        • I think as a anglophone myself that it's right and proper that the French are trying to stand up to this anglicisation of the world. It just so happens at the moment that this is dominated by Americans. I don't think they're necessarily being anti-American. Why do I think this? When people think in French (or German, or Russian, or Arabic or Swahili, or whatever) they think differently. They have a different perspective. They have a different feel for things. They come up with different answers. Thi
      • by Westacular ( 118145 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:56AM (#12369189)
        Not to mention the vain attempt to seem topical with a comparison to Jose Bove is not only irrelevant, it's down-right nonsensical; saying "a mild-mannered Jose Bove" is like saying "a quiet boom" or "an unbluish cerulean".

        This project is about making sure that books from non-english, European cultures are also available on the Internet and ones' choice of electronic libraries is not limited to an American/English-language selection, which is what Google is currently limiting itself to. It's "well, if they're doing it, maybe we should too!", not, "oh god we can't let them beat us to this".

        Diversity of culture is indisputably a good thing and all they're trying to do is maintain and encourage that. Any suggestion of "fighting" or "competition" is simply an angle someone dreamed up to make this seem more "sensationally" newsworthy.
    • Agreed. Those of us in the humanities who are stuck without a good library of classic European texts ought to be very exited. I am.
    • by _Hellfire_ ( 170113 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:22AM (#12368815)
      I've noticed over the last (at least) year or so that people are considering Google the de-facto standard for searches and information accessibility. I've also noticed that whenever somebody creates a project that is even slightly related to what Google does, everybody immediately looks at each other and says in a quiet whisper "Is that... allowed?"

      It's a free market people. The Internet is just like any other marketplace and people are free to do whatever they like however they like. Google is just another player. Granted they are an enormously huge one, but they are a player nonetheless. They don't (yet) have a restrictive monopoly on searches, and there are no laws that say "Thou shalt not impinge on Google's turf".

      It's not divisive pride. These people decided to do their own thing. Maybe they can even - shock horror - do it better than Google. I for one wish them the best of luck.

      Remember, Google doesn't own the patent on innovation.
    • Agreed. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by alexwcovington ( 855979 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:29AM (#12368843) Journal
      This is awesome, now not only are some of the grandest libraries in America being digitized, so too are some of the grandest in Europe. As great as Google is, I would very much prefer a world where all the eggs were not in one basket.
      • This is awesome, now not only are some of the grandest libraries in America being digitized, so too are some of the grandest in Europe. As great as Google is, I would very much prefer a world where all the eggs were not in one basket.

        As long as the access remains open, sure, it's great. For once, nationalistic (or regionalistic) pride does something good.

        If anything, it's sad that an American company has to scare them into doing something good rather than doing it on their own.

    • If one of the libraries gets killed (by whatever), future generations will still have a chance to obtain the content from the other one.
      So different libraries in different places under different jurisdictions are good.
    • More books means more better!

      Now maybe them people can get their learn on? ;-)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:03AM (#12368719)
    The libraries are making their content more accessible? Can it be bad?
    • > The libraries are making their content more accessible? Can it
      > be bad?

      I don't think so. The first thing I thought partway through reading the slashdot summary was "uhoh. these euro libraries are going to sue google". hearing that they were going to put effort into making their own service is a refreshing change to this cynical reader.

      • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:06AM (#12369016) Homepage
        Slashdot has been trying to brew this whole thing into a controversy where there was none. First, they tried to pretend that the French were trying to ban Google from running a library project (they weren't - the linked article was about trying to get funding for precisely what they're doing now). Now they're acting like there's something wrong with what the EU nations are doing; essentially everybody here is in agreement that the more digitization, the better.

        Creating fake controversy... it's a case of Slashdot pretending to be a 24-hour cable news network.
    • "Accessible" ? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Thomas Miconi ( 85282 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @03:27AM (#12369290)
      It depends on what "accessible" means. I think these guys misunderstood the motivation behind Google's effort. Google is here to organise information - not to provide it: Google Print is only there to allow you to find books that match your searches, not to read them.

      Try just about any book search on Google, even about old ones. Try Austen's Sense and Sensibility. Try Hobbes' Leviathan. Whatever. Google Print will point you to a modern, copyrighted edition of the book. You will only be able to browse a few pages.

      Contrast with the Gallica project [gallica.bnf.fr] at the Bibliotheque Nationale de France: thousands of digitised books, freely accessible from beginning to end, most in scanned image format, but many in full ASCII text. And Gallica is much older than Google Print (in Internet time it's about one or two generations older), though not as old as the Gutenberg project.

      Judging from his language, the French dude seems to think that Google Print is a scaled-up, English-language Gallica. It isn't. But if European libraries get their act together and start a project to make literally millions of books freely accessible for all in all European languages, hey, I'm all for it !

      Thomas-
      • Re:"Accessible" ? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Try just about any book search on Google.

        The thing is Google will not digitize all the books in the world, but only those found in a few US libraries. What european librarians fear is that this will result is a biased view of the world, where anglo-saxon culture is the only one represented, and everything else disappears into oblivion. As more and more people rely almost exclusively on Google to find information, if it's not indexed by Google, it's like it does not exist.

        Read again what Jeanneney says in
  • by pmontra ( 738736 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:08AM (#12368745) Homepage
    It's simpler than that: if Google isn't digitizing European books somebody else has to do it and eventually somebody will create a unified search interface.
  • Divisive pride? What the hell is that? How does starting a different project in any way interfere with or "counter" Google's efforts?

    I get enough manufactured controversy ignoring the commercials for my evening news.
  • duh (Score:2, Insightful)

    by wzeallor ( 837325 )
    healthy competition = divisive pride
  • HOLD ON A MINUTE (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zappepcs ( 820751 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:12AM (#12368767) Journal
    Hold on a minute... I think we're missing the point. If Goooooogle or anyone else happens to overtake the public libraries in popularity or usefulness, it is quite likely that the information available will suddenly become subject to what advertisers will pay for, and will turn in to a "top 40" of public information rather than a collected works of all public information.

    If public libraries use their funds to assist each other in digitally making available all public information without regard to what is possible, then we have a GREAT thing, but when the sum total of that body of knowledge and history is governed by someone trying to make money, we, as a society, WILL lose in the end.

    Its NOT about how you get the information or how it is stored... its about WHO is in charge of that information and what their motives are...

    Sadly, capitalism is not good for everything...
    • Aye, just wait until the GoogleFiremen [wikipedia.org] start making the rounds!
    • by isj ( 453011 )
      That is also my thought. Google is not evil. At least not now. But that is no guarantee that it will remain so. There is no guarantee that google will not require pay-per-view in 20 years time. Besides, libraries allow you to read anonymously. I am sure google has you IP-address logged somewhere.

      I am willing to pay for this through the normal taxes.
  • by DJStealth ( 103231 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:14AM (#12368777)
    I don't understand how this is considered "counter" or anti-google by opening up a similar service.

    It seems that a lot of people around here want google to have a monopoly since it's good(tm) and microsoft is a bad(tm) monopoly. (Not that I'm a fan of MS).

    All monopolies are bad, and there should be a free and open market. For all you know, this could be better than google's interface.
    • Trade the devil you know with the devil you don't know. Wonderful!

    • This project is considered counter-google by the people doing it. They figure that if a US company is distributing books from US libraries, it must be a plot make US books more prevalent than European books. It's pretty dumb, but it's how some people think.

      Once their site is up, Google will serve up links to it like everything else. The European libraries will quietly forget that they started the project because they expected the opposite from Google, and we'll get more books on the Internet.

  • by treff89 ( 874098 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:15AM (#12368778)
    This turn of events is summed up well by the blurb: Google's service will be a good thing in that it is preserving works which could otherwise be destroyed or lost with time, and, most importantly, _searched_ for information as opposed to leafing through page after page; and the competition will be good in that Google will be forced to improve its service to stay on top. For the consumer: A win/win situation!
  • Competetion (Score:5, Funny)

    by drakethegreat ( 832715 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:17AM (#12368789) Homepage
    Its amazing that something so great exists in this world! The glorious idea of capitalism!
  • The cool thing (Score:3, Insightful)

    by truesaer ( 135079 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:19AM (#12368801) Homepage
    The cool thing about Google is that if the european site ends up being really useful, they might cross link to their content (like with answers.com or mapquest or whatever). Google has proven that they will give users the option of their own product and other well known products.
  • This isn't a war (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KillerDeathRobot ( 818062 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:23AM (#12368819) Homepage
    Google and the libraries don't have to fight, and really, they're not. I don't know why the European libraries wouldn't want Google to digitize their content, but it doesn't really matter. If Google's content and these libraries' content is free to all, then it's good.

    It's not even like there's anything to compete about really, it's being done for the good of humanity.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I can see why European academia might be... well... hesitant to leave the work of digitizing the world's libraries to Google. Not only is it an American organization, but - the horror! - it's a corporation as well. Who knows what those barbarians might choose to preserve, and what to relegate to the rubbish bin of history?

      (snort)

      Seriously, even with the best of motives, Google's going to have to prioritize somehow - the project will take years even in the early stages, and eventually decades if brought to
    • by Delora ( 840099 )
      I don't think that they are fighting.

      It is the same as maps.google.com. They first build their service for the United States, later they extend it for other countries.
      The same with the libraries. Google starts with libraries from the US. I'm pretty sure they will extend their service to other libraries when they are done with the libraries inside the US. But, this takes a lot of time. The European libraries don't want to wait this long, so they build up their own project.

      In my opinion, it is possibl
  • This is Good... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BlueFashoo ( 463325 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:31AM (#12368854)
    I'm have to say that the origins of this are in a nationalistic ferver. Europe is afraid of being overshadowed by America. This project was organized by the French to fend off American Cultural Imperialism(TM). This is also healthy competition. It doesn't have to be either/or.

    "The leaders of the undersigned national libraries wish to support the initiative of Europe's leaders aimed at a large and organized digitization of the works belonging to our continent's heritage," a statement said. "Such a move needs a tight coordination of national ambitions at EU level to decide on the selection of works," it added.

    later

    But he added: "The real issue is elsewhere. And it is immense. It is confirmation of the risk of a crushing American domination in the definition of how future generations conceive the world."


    This is good even if it did arise from nationalistic pride. (Yah I know, Europe's a continent, not a country.)

    It is better to not have one exclusive source of important information like this. This way we (humanity) are not storing all of our eggs in one basket. Plus Europe gets to put in more books without worrying about copyright. (Damn you Bono.) What would be best is if Google just gave the Europeans a copy of its library archives and the Europeans did likewise.
    • by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:58AM (#12369195) Homepage
      I'm have to say that the origins of this are in a nationalistic ferver. Europe is afraid of being overshadowed by America. This project was organized by the French to fend off American Cultural Imperialism(TM).

      Good soundbite, but not at all true. The origins of this project are more than a decade old, and I was involved with it in 1993.

      The company I worked for at the time did data capture. We won the contract to digitis French National Library - custom scanning software was written, pagination checking, QA software...the lot. This was when you needed custom graphics cards to store an largish group 4-compressed TIFF, and a lot of work went into optimising the deskewing sfotware etc.

      Back then the project was called EPBF, European Biblioteqe de Francais (or Every P*ssing Book In France as one scanner operator had it), though the name later changed to just BNF (Bilbioteqe National de Francais). We were always trying to get the British Library interested too, but the dragged their heals and it's not surprising to me that it's taken them twelve years to finally get to the table.

      I rather doubt this is anything to do with Google as such. It's just making better use of what they've had for years already, at least in France.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    • (to the tune of George of the Jungle)
      Bono, Bono, Bono of the Ski slopes
      WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREE!!

      When they found Sonny Bono, he was wearing a Douglas fir.

      What does the deaths of Farley, Bono & Kennedy have in common?
      A white powdery substance.

      Who really killed Michael Kennedy and Sonny Bono?
      Tree Harvey Oswald!

      How do we know Sonny was a politician at heart?
      At the very end, he was stumping.

      Why is Al Gore going to Sonny's funeral?
      For all we know, he's the tree Sonny ran into.

      What preceded Sonny Bono's
  • Read or Die (Score:5, Funny)

    by illuminatedwax ( 537131 ) <stdrange@alUUUum ... inus threevowels> on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:33AM (#12368866) Journal
    Look out! The British Royal Library is making its move!!!
  • As long as the information is equally accessible, preserved with interoperable (read: open) standards and of similar quality I'm grossely indifferent whose flag is waving over the server-farm. Wasn't the internet supposed to do away with this nationalistic bs? *sigh*
  • by alexhs ( 877055 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:46AM (#12368924) Homepage Journal
    Posted by samzenpus on Thursday April 28, @08:00AM
    from the library-wars dept.

    hisheadisdead writes "Two days after Microsoft marginally improved [slashdot.org] their next Operating System, Deutsche-Welle carry the story that the a whole host of large community of European developpers (with Richard Stallman's tacit support) have joined an EU-based operating system project as a counter to Microsoft's own operating system project. The project is the brainchild of OSDL employee Linus Torvalds, a sort of mild-mannered Jose Bove for the developpers out there. Divisive pride, or healthy competition?"

  • by rsidd ( 6328 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @01:50AM (#12368942)
    since these are all national libraries. The US equivalent, the Library of Congress, isn't part of Google's effort. Moreover, European copyrights expire sooner than American copyrights, at the moment. So a lot of valuable 20th-century material could become available.

    Still, I'm wondering, wouldn't it have been easier to join Google rather than fight them? Or did they think of that, and did Google not want to play along?

    • by lfourrier ( 209630 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @03:22AM (#12369274)
      Moreover, European copyrights expire sooner than American copyrights, at the moment. So a lot of valuable 20th-century material could become available.
      Where did you get this crazy notion ?
      In France, the rights go for 75 years after death of the author (previously 50, previously 25), plus war periods, plus 25 years if the author died for France.
      So, as a sample, The little Prince, by St Exupery (who died in 1943, as a pilot) should have been protected at the time until 1993 (25 + died for France). But then, we had 2 extentions (50 then 75 years). Then there was Indochine war (the mess that became Vietnam war). Then there was Algery. As a side note, Algery is legally a war only since a few years (at most 5), but then, by virtue of a law intented to help ex-fighter in what was before a police operation, all copyrights (even if copyright does not exist as such in french law) where extended for 8 years. And I don't speak about England, where recently, a law declared that the copyright to Peter Pan (which was donated to an hospital) is to be perpetual.
      So European copyrights are not so short, and the situation is much more complicated than that.
      • Umm. The copyright to Peter Pan expired a while ago. What you are talking about is that there is mandatory licensing of Peter Pan ad infinitum imposed by the government. This is outside of copyright, but is effectively the same. The resultant monies go to a children's hospital, the Great Ormond Street, which is one of the best in the world, apparently. I hardly see that paying a pittance towards curing children of cancer and so on is that terrible a thing.

        There is, however, a perpetual copyright in the Uni

        • To add to the complexity, the french "Code de la propriete intellectuelle" (law of IP) says, in substance that the durations enonced are maximum, and for works whose author is a foreign nationnal, work are protected in France for the duration accorded by the country of origin or France, the shorter of the two, provided there is reciprocity of protection for the works of french origin in the country of origin of the considered work (I didn't relly dig into the case where an author from A write and publish so

  • They are lacking the vision to see the purpose of Google's efforts, and the purpose of libraries like themselves in general.

    The purpose of a traditional library is to collect, catalog, and preserve the writings of humanity for the benefit of ourselves and our children to come.

    The purpose of digitization projects like Google's is to bring this into a new era. The purpose is not to turn each individual library into an electronic form of its current self - the very idea of disparate libraries was merely a c
    • Nothing in the article suggests each library will keep their digital versions separate. If they were, there wouldn't be much need of the different libraries to cooperate.

      These libraries are going to do the same thing as Google but with their works, work that Google had no current plans to digitise. It's already going to take the 10 years to do the stuff they are planning.

      So the choices are, Google digitises some works and put them on line, or Google digitises some works and puts them on line, and the Eu

  • by cahiha ( 873942 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:06AM (#12369018)
    Google scans those books for business purposes, libraries scan them for library purposes. There are differences between the two.

    Now, it is possible (I don't know) that when Google works with libraries, the libraries get copies of the images as if they had scanned the books themselves. In that case, when Google offers to work with a library, it makes sense to accept the offer.

    But if Google doesn't actually offer to work with a particular library, or if they aren't interested in the same books as the library, or if there are restrictions on the use of the scanned images that are stricter than if the library scanned the documents themselves, then it makes sense for that library to scan the books themselves.
  • Harlan Ellison doesn't like people trading his books on bittorent. Fair enough. I'm guessing he probably also doesn't like libraries lending his books out either, since both represent a lost sale - though most of his books are out of print. Lending books out is generally accepted, though perhaps grudgingly in some quarters, because at least the libraries buy a copies in the first place and also give back to authors in various ways, depending on which country we're talking about. When the physical books dies
  • It's about funding (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DingerX ( 847589 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:22AM (#12369076) Journal
    The Bodleian library (working with Google) had a pilot digitization project of the manuscript library for something like 10 years; then Google comes along and signs them up.

    There's a group through the Czech national library that's been putting stuff up, and is exploring offerring it on a subscription basis (merely 3000 Euro/year, and institutions only need apply).

    For me, the best online digitization of a library currently available is already the BNF [slashdot.org], and that project has poor quality control (unreadable scans), shaky connection qualities and bad links galore (an essential reference dictionary for my field is missing the volumes containing the letters A-C, and S-Z).

    Without doubt, the EU consortium is using anti-americanism and anti-corporatism to justify the tons of government payouts needed to fund this; without doubt the documents won't be as easy to access as Google's project. But hell, if it puts more books online, I'm all for it. And unlike Google, many of these libraries have been around for centuries; one would hope that in a few centuries, they'll still be here. Google may be doing great, but will it be here in ten years?
  • Neither (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheoMurpse ( 729043 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @02:44AM (#12369158) Homepage
    Divisive pride, or healthy competition?

    Neither, you idiot. They are not competing! They are not dividing! They are doing something Google is not -- digitising European works. For Christ's sake, that's like saying by building a library in a small town, you are trying to take a jab at a library in a neighboring town!
  • Why bother? (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 )
    Google doesn't even provide the full text. You can only browse maybe ~20 pages. And they're even designing the UI to make it hard to automatically grab those few pages. What's their problem with Google anyway?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28, 2005 @03:16AM (#12369251)

    Mod me down if you wish, but I have to say that I found Google Print nice, but not too useful. Sure, it's a nice thing that you can search through paper books, but in most cases you can't actually read them; you have to buy them, and this even goes for classics such as "20,000 leagues under the sea" which are already digitized by Project Gutenberg [gutenberg.org] or similar organizations: Google digitizes newer, copyrighted editions even when there are older, public domain editions available. Thus, in my eyes Google Print is little more than a marketing door for on-line bookstores.

    On the other hand, French digitalization project Gallica [gallica.bnf.fr], though sometimes mocked on Slashdot, not only digitizes books, but gives the scans away freely (as in speech), so everyone can read the books in entirety or use them as they please. Both Distributed Proofreaders [pgdp.net] and Distributed Proofreaders Europe [rastko.net] already use Gallica scans to produce completely digitized and free e-books which you can search, read, datamine, or do with them anything that suits you. If Slashdot readers are supporters of free software, this too is something they should revere.

    I hope that Europeans will not compete with Google. I hope that they will make bigger, better, and more diverse Gallica.

  • . . . BNF director Jean-Noel Jeanneney . . .

    At first read, I wondered why Backus-Naur Form needed a director.

    ^_^
  • Oh great... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Noryungi ( 70322 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @04:03AM (#12369404) Homepage Journal
    Just as a reminder, the French project of an almost purely digital library (Bibliotheque de France) has been a huge money burner. Their IT system is a complete mess, a mess in which they have already sunk millions of Euros.

    Who was the President of that fiasco? Jeanneney, the same guy who is now trying to 'counter Google' or something. I suspect this so-called 'European' project is a scam to obtain more money for his own aggrandizement.
    • On the one hand Google employees would be more likely to do the right thing technically for such a huge undertaking, but on the other hand try to actually read something on Google Print.

      At least at the gallica site [gallica.bnf.fr] you can search, browse and read what has already been digitized, for Free (as in speech). They have sunk millions and made mistakes, fine. Perhaps they'll make fewer mistakes in the future.

      No one can deny the project is important.
  • There's more to it (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Netsensei ( 838071 )
    There's more to it than just french chauvinism the likes. I see it as a two-fold problem.

    1. Selection. Digitisation implicates selection of the materials you are going to digitize. Even Google can't digitise every book in the world. A lot of people feel that the selection of several North-American university libraries doesn't reflect world culture but just North-American culture.

    Now, I'm a bit pragmatic on the issue: the selection of the works isn't language-based or geography-located. So I suppose a gr
  • Say that five times really quick.

    European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation
    European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation
    European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation
    European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation
    European Libraries Counter Google Digitisation

    samzenpus gets the HSDHL award for April (High Sylabbic Density HeadLine).

    He also gets props for spelling Digitisation correctly. You looked at it funny. Admit it.
  • (Some) folks: forget about the nationalistic/risk/fight tone of TFA. This is sensationalism to get the article through. This does not help. It misses the point. It mis-reports the essential.

    Folks, just think technically. Q: What gets to be used by a majority ? A: The most exposed stuff. Discussion: There should be no convincing work needed there (I hope.) That's the basic of advertisement. This is independent of nation/subject/topic/culture.

    Getting English literature digitalised is fantastic. This will

  • More Books = Good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Spazmania ( 174582 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @06:15AM (#12369843) Homepage
    Divisive pride, or healthy competition?

    Who cares? If it means more literature is digitally preserved then its all good.
  • In an ideal world, people would do the Right Thing because it was the Right Thing. In this one, they sometimes do the Right Thing because they are prideful and don't want to be shown up by those they have contempt for. But at least they are doing the Right Thing, and that is a Good Thing. And the Internet Archive can snarf and collate them both, anyway. With the cost of hard drive space doing what it's doing, in four or five years, the entire print Public Domain will fit in few thousand dollars worth of
  • by oliderid ( 710055 ) on Thursday April 28, 2005 @06:53AM (#12369992) Journal
    Well i'm not French, i'm Belgian. I'm frenchspeaker. The sad thing about this project is that "once again" a French official found a way to put some "Anti-american" bashings in his speech. I'm fed up by their rethoric. It looks more and more like xenophoby to me. The French "elites" have a great problem with the US because nobody in France is listenning to them. Read their speeches and then go to Paris. Movie theatres make money with American action films not with their boring state funded nombrilistic social drama movies. Mc Donalds restaurants are everywhere. Young people wear NBA t-shirts and American brands on the street. Nobody feels threatenned by the American "culture" except the elites. People still speak French, still enjoy French food and still read French magazines, still wear French brrands etc. There is nothing wrong with some new ways of living coming from a foreign culture. Even the French language is the consequence of a much bigger cultural invasion (Rome) and France as a political entity from a Germanic invasion (Clovis, Charlesmagne). Anyway back to the real topic: The project is simply great. I would feel more confortable if this European heritage is under public organization supervision than under a private company one. Google is a private company. Its goal is about making money. Here we are talking about culture heritage. Knowledge must be free. It should be copied, duplicated, modified, distributed freely. Nobody can have any claim on patents, copyrights or any stuffs like that. Anyway As somebody pointed out. Sooner or later googlebot will browse their database and index it anyway. Maybe they could use it like they did with dmoz.org . And other search engines too... That's the real point. Sooner or later a better (privatly funded) search engine will come out and will get an access to this public database. Olivier
  • According to the article, Bodleian in Oxford is one of the contributors to the Google project. I believe that Bodleian in Oxford is a European library.

    Did Google ask any other European library to participate? Did the French library ask Google to be included in the project?
  • by Malc ( 1751 )
    Backus Naur Form?
    British Nutrition Foundation?
    British National Formulary
    La Bibliothèque Nationale de France

    Don't be lazy. Please introduce TLA's properly to make it easier for the reader. It's annoying having to go searching just to understand one paragraph.

    The project is the brainchild of La Bibliothèque Nationale de France (BNF) director Jean-Noel Jeanneney

    P.S. Just to destroy the irony of my comment (or not to appear as a hypocrit): TLA = three letter abbreviation.

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