Building the World's Most Powerful Laser 354
Bill writes "Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories is attempting to create the world's largest laser. The NIF's goal is to focus the laser on a pea-sized hydrogen pellet and result in fusion ignition."
Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:5, Funny)
We need to find an evil college professor and fill his house with popcorn! [moviequotequiz.com]
Hilarity will ensue!
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Funny)
1. Slashdot is infested with teenage wannabes who aren't old enough to have seen Real Genius.
2. Slashdot is infested with people who *wish* they were cool enough to be geeks.
Considering how much nonsense we see, plus the general Slashdot GroupThink(TM), I'm going for number 3: All of the above.
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Funny)
forgot the plastic....
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:2, Interesting)
Definitely stands out.
Group think. Meh, original scenes make group think happen because the group remembers them.
- Horse head in Godfather
- Shark tank with Lasers on their heads
- I kn
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:5, Informative)
A few people will usually get it. But the majority will say something amazingly stupid.
But what makes that movie (and that scene) so special?
Oh, come on! That's the ultimate 80's party movie for geeks! They pulled off all sorts of geeky pranks (dry ice in the hall, disassembling/reassembling a car in the dorm, tuning a radio to braces), saved the world through some pretty creative hacking/espionage, and even pulled an awesome prank on the bad guy! What's not to like?
Group think. Meh, original scenes make group think happen because the group remembers them.
Ummm... no. Group Think refers to the Slashdot mentality of accepting the story spin at face value without checking the facts. A perfect example was the Chase Mastercard story from a day or two ago. The poster said "wireless", "RFID", and "insecure", thus ensuring that 95% of the posts were "This sucks and is insecure wireless crap that I can hack like this RFID hack (some pointless link here)!" The truth of the matter was that the card was not wireless (induction), not RFID (smartcard), and was not insecure (crypto chip). It was actually a marked improvement over the current cards! And yet, the last response to my rebuttals of such nonsense still had someone calling it wireless and insecure! Enough to make me want to drop-kick a few people...
Reel Geeks (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Funny)
-or-
3. Real Genius was gay and noone cares.
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:3, Informative)
That's my wifes favorite line, too.
Re:Companion Cloning/Bio-Engineering Project? (Score:2)
No, just a shark with an extremely large head.
I beg to differ (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I beg to differ (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I beg to differ (Score:3, Funny)
LK
Re:I beg to differ (Score:2, Funny)
Well, just in case, it comes with a label that reads "WARNING: Don't look at laser with remaining eye".
Re:I beg to differ (Score:2)
I call it... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I call it... (Score:2)
Re:I call it... (Score:2)
Re:I call it... (Score:4, Funny)
Eh... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Eh... (Score:2)
About time! (Score:5, Funny)
military research, again (Score:4, Insightful)
The NIF laser "is essential to assessing the potential performance of nuclear weapons," says Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman.
Naturally I'm depressed that "civilian" research does not get the money which it needs to help solve many pressing problems, but on the other hand if this facility removes the need for live nuclear tests that would be a good thing.
How long this self-imposed testband will last if China or India decide they need to start testing weapons using live tests ?
Re:military research, again (Score:2)
More like shooting down nuclear weapons from the ground. After all, the missile defense drones don't seem to be doing it. Why not just try the obvious.
Of course, they'll have to station the test facility under an abandoned drive-in movie theater [imdb.com].
Re:military research, again (Score:5, Insightful)
These lasers are definitely cool, but not what one would traditionally think of. Each laser charges up to one terrajoule of energy, then outputs one terrawatt for one second. The theory is that if the pulse is timed correctly, there will be enough pressure from all sides to force fusion. Unfortunately, we won't know if it's actually going to work until the end of the decade.
As for military uses, the military doesn't really need a laser this powerful. A gigawatt laser would do the job just as effectively, would charge much faster, and wouldn't strain the reactors in a combat situation. I'd provide more info if I could, but the Navy currently has the next generation ships listed as having "directed energy weapons". The only such weapon they've confirmed (for suitably shakey definitions of "confirmed") is the Rail Gun, which may allow destroyers to perform Battleship style land bombardments.
Re:military research, again (Score:3, Informative)
Juuust slightly off...by a factor of a billion or so!
Re:military research, again (Score:2)
Re:military research, again (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would they want to do that? Right now the equipment for a fusion reactor is massive, has to be carefully calibrated, and wouldn't really be effective for a bomb. In short, we're a LONG way from a pure fusion bomb. I can imagine that the military has a passive interest at the moment,
Re:military research, again (Score:2, Informative)
This is being sold under the heading of "stockpile stewardship", not weapons development, much less to be part of an actual weapons system.
Re:military research, again (Score:2)
Maybe you have more info that would help, but I just can't fathom why anyone would attempt to test a fusion bomb in this manner.
Re:military research, again (Score:5, Funny)
Probably because the people who work on nuclear physics & nuclear weapons technology are really, really stupid. They're probably not nearly as smart as you.
Note: Please see previous article on sarcasm detection for help with this post.
Re:military research, again (Score:4, Informative)
From this page [globalsecurity.org], they are not using lasers for fusion tests as the anon poster suggested. Instead, they're using microlasers to do Spryton [wikipedia.org] trigger tests. So no, nuclear scientists are not really, really stupid. Someone just has their facts out of whack (which happens).
If anyone *does* have a link to the military doing fusion testing with lasers, then by all means. Post a link!
If we have to go to these lengths (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If we have to go to these lengths (Score:2)
Re:If we have to go to these lengths (Score:2)
Anyone have any issue with the fact that beryllium is extremly toxic? And they are evaporating it?
They better have some really good containment chamber there, but it's hard to imagine that it's a goood long term choice of element. I mean fusion is very clean - why mess things up and add in a super toxic element?
Re:If we have to go to these lengths (Score:2)
Re:If we have to go to these lengths (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If we have to go to these lengths (Score:3, Funny)
Don't stop there. Just add a blender and you've got whirled peas.
Direct Link (Score:2)
Huh. this story looks like its almost exactly what I have on my blog. Anyways, the direct link for the NIF is here [llnl.gov].
Just think: it's better than half way to a fusion drive if it all works in 2010.
Re:Direct Link (Score:2)
Laser ignition is not the path to a reactor.
Re:Direct Link (Score:2)
What a brilliant idea. Next time I apply for a grant, I'm going to call it "Z_2 gauge theories on spin lattices and applications to builiding a bigger bomb". I'll probably get millions.
Trouble is... (Score:5, Funny)
Who's Financing This? (Score:4, Funny)
Funding, and vital tritium pellets, will be provided by a grant from OsCorp?
And in other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And in other news... (Score:2)
But can they turn it off? (Score:4, Funny)
Self-sustaining? Can they turn it off if it starts to get out of control? Amazing stuff, but to some degree a little scary.
Re:But can they turn it off? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:But can they turn it off? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But can they turn it off? (Score:5, Informative)
With fission, all you have to do is put too much Uranium (or Plutonium or whatever nasty, radioactive stuff) in a closet, and it will spontaneously sustain itself in a "chain reaction". If you put way too much stuff in the closet, then the chain reaction runs away and explodes, spontaneously.
With fusion, you take a tiny sphere of deuterium (or tritium) and blast it for a tiny fraction of a second with the World's Largest Laser Beam. If you are really, really lucky, the deuterium will fuse to helium and you'll get out a little bit more energy than you spent getting the thing to fuse. There's no possibility of a runaway here, because there's no chain reaction. You can simply choose not to fire the WLLB at any point.
Re:But can they turn it off? (Score:2)
Who you gonna call?! (Score:2)
Re:But can they turn it off? (Score:2)
all the laser is good for (Score:5, Funny)
Re:all the laser is good for (Score:2, Funny)
I'll file your comment under "H" for "toy".
Warning on Laser (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Warning on Laser (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Warning on Laser (Score:3, Funny)
Bias out the ass. (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds good to me.
"If Congress knew it would cost $5 billion up front, would they ever have funded it? No way," maintains Christopher Paine, who has monitored NIF's development for the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environment advocacy group, and has been one of its sharpest critics.
Paine, who in a critique once dubbed NIF "The Unlovable Laser," maintains that NIF should follow the same path. He says it isn't needed and poses a nuclear proliferation risk because it might make it easier in decades ahead to develop new nuclear weapons, not just maintain existing ones.
Since, every American knows the only use of anything nuclear is to kill people. So now, we take a "reliable" newsource like CNN.com - and not only shred any chance of getting "unbiased" information and toss it in the can.
Also, to contrast that idiots opinion, we get:
The JASONs, a group of scientists frequently called upon to review complex defense or national security issues,
that sounds a LITTLE more relevant, no?
has concluded that NIF "does not represent a significant proliferation risk" and is "fully compatible" with U.S.
I guess this is why I can't appreciate the news for telling me anything new now adays. Someone go develop a computer to report things without bias, then I'll be interested in reading the news.
Re:Bias out the ass. (Score:4, Interesting)
Quoting from the conclusion (my emphasis added):
Who would have thought a giant laser could be used for war!Re:Bias out the ass. (Score:2)
Re:Bias out the ass. (Score:2)
HAL9000's voice is kind of dull. Does Skynet have an interesting voice?
I wonder.... (Score:4, Funny)
Oh.My.God. Once the filibuster is abolished, Darth Bush will finally be able to finish his Death Star!!!
Re:I wonder.... (Score:2)
nitpick: Not *A* laser (Score:5, Informative)
It might classify as the world's most intense laser target, but that's entirely different language.
Fusion ignition is also not the goal (or, for that matter, even the primary goal) of the laser cluster.. The intent is apparently nuclear weapons testing and design. Civilian fusion research is simply a pleasand side effect.
Re:nitpick: Not *A* laser (Score:2)
Re:nitpick: Not *A* laser (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe they got tired of all the posts about 'Imagine a beowulf cluster of these' and went out and built one.
ConFusion (Score:2)
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
The sun is often referred to as a "fireball" or "burning", yet it is just "chain fusion". Ignition is quite a suitable name for this intense reaction, regardless of whether it is chemical or nuclear.
Re:ConFusion (Score:5, Informative)
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
that line was meant to say:
the NIF will almost certainly NOT achieve breakeven (total power in is equal to or less than total power out)because Nd:glass [wikipedia.org] lasers are disgustingly inefficient (~1%).
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
Re:ConFusion (Score:5, Informative)
Incidentally, as long as I'm posting here I'd like to say that (no surprise really, its a science article) the AP article gets it a bit wrong. The NIF will never achieve the status of "most powerful" laser on earth. Highest energy laser on earth? At 2 MEGAjoules yes it will be the most energetic. But not the most powerful. The maximum power of the NIF is estimated at 500-750 Terawatts (trillion watts) (I'm approximating). However, the OMEGA EP [rochester.edu] laser which will be finished in 2007 (before NIF) will achieve a power of over 2 PETAwatts or 2 million billion watts. Several times that of the NIF.
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
While you're hot - do we have anything like the technology to capture the radiated energy while it's still photons, pumping a laser for transmission away from the reactor to where it can be consumed? Materials that aren't consumed, collectors with high (>90-99%) efficiency, lots of parallel fibers which can conduct, say, 0.001% the wattage without "going nonlinear" (melting/burning)? Once we've got this t
Re:ConFusion (Score:4, Informative)
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
I understand that we've got to take this a step at a time: first self-sustaining exothermic fusion (by any means necessary
Re:ConFusion (Score:2)
Why wont they just... (Score:2)
A lesson.... (Score:5, Funny)
Most powerful laser (Score:4, Funny)
Why? (Score:2, Funny)
summary of my thoughts on this (Score:3, Informative)
I can remember first reading about this fusion concept in the "the two faces of tomorrow" [darkhorse.com] from Dark Horse comics. At the time I thought this was just some ancient sci-fi writer's relic idea on how to achieve fusion, we had tokamak (donut) magnetic fusion reactors now. However, after I read about the real life version of it, I first thought WOW and after that I realized that it might be much simpler to ignite a fusion reaction and then back off to let it run wild than to try to contain a fusion reaction in a magnetic bubble. The concept sounds simpler. They're having trouble with manufacturing the hydrogen pellet however, so the tokamak reactor might have a steadier flow of energy coming out of it if they get the concept to work smoothly.
old-energy corporations
Oil, gas and coal companies might not want this to work. I remember the piece in Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911" [fahrenheit911.com] about the corporate spy who told his own story. I think he came clean out of guilt over what he'd done in the past. Point I'm trying to make is, there might be a lot of opposition to this project and I hope that they have a lot of security on site. They probably have because this is mostly a military project.
The need for fusion
I do think earth will eventually need fusion reactors, at least the USA needs it. Earth can source it's current level of energy consumption from wind, wave and solar plants if we clad most of the planet with these kind of renewables but it would not be as efficient as a lot of fusion plants. The giant solar tower in Australia and the Sterling motor solar plants look promising but fusion reactors would need less room. A lot of countries just don't have the living space to fill with low producing plants like solar and wind farms. That's what I understand from reading a lot of articles. Fusion would also work on a windless cloudy day and a world filled with fusion reactors would give us a lot more energy to play with than a world filled with other kinds of plants. With oil supplies running out, there will be more wars. To think that politicians ares still fighting over where the ITER tokamak fusion reactor prototype is going to be built (Japan or France) is unbelievable. Every hour they waste could mean a human life they could have saved by preventing an energy war. The bastards responsible should be jailed.
Ridicule of sci-fi
The "The Two Faces of Tomorrow" comic made me realize that we need more science-fiction in our lives. It's weird that sci-fi isn't more popular because it can help us think up solutions to problems that absolutely need to be solved. Humankind would be dead meat if science stopped completely this second. Most people would die without even an animal skin or a house to protect themselves from weather. Fusion is just the continuation of the process that gave us bear skins.
I think it can be explained psychologically. If you don't have knowledge of something like science, it's a good tactic for you personally to ridicule it. That way you can still keep some of your social status because the thing you don't know about is "not important anyway". I hear there are a lot of attacks on science in the USA, are these attackers also renouncing clothes? Ofcourse this phenomenon is everywhere but why is it so big in the US? Not as smart? More fundamentalist? Both? I want every smart person on earth to realize that they are more in the right than fundamentalists who oppose science or stupid people with more determination to make themselves heard. Don't cower, ridicule THEM instead.
Re:summary of my thoughts on this (Score:2)
the National Ignition Facility (Score:2)
Mirror? (Score:3, Interesting)
M@
Awesome! (Score:2)
No! (Score:2)
If only this were useful (Score:2)
Worse, if you need something this big for single-shot tests, pulsed fusion as a power source does not look promising. DoE was talking up pulsed fusion as a power source in the 1970s, and it turned out to be a scam. It was a cover story for a predecessor to this project.
Similar european project : the MegaJoule laser (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www-lmj.cea.fr/html/cea.htm [www-lmj.cea.fr]
Big laser? (Score:3, Funny)
Yes I would!
Re:Can't we use this in other ways? (Score:4, Insightful)
Laser typically aren't feasible for use in combat, how would you power such a thing?
Building a mobile unit that could sustain enough power output to burn a hole in 16 inches of Tank armor would be analogous to the pencil and pen story of NASA... just use a bazooka.
Re:Can't we use this in other ways? (Score:2, Funny)
Building a mobile unit that could sustain enough power output to burn a hole in 16 inches of Tank armor...
Easy , just put it on low orbit. Then use maps.google.com for aiming. Muahahahahah!
Re:Can't we use this in other ways? (Score:2)
Re:Can't we use this in other ways? (Score:2, Insightful)
FUCK YEAH!
Dipshit.
Erm ... (Score:3, Informative)
The cores on these things break down rather fast, and they aren't sure-fire to work correctly (or even behave themselves) after sitting on a shelf for d