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Wireless Networking Technology Hardware

Nokia and Intel Group Up To Develop WiMax 91

Posted by Zonk from the mucho-wifi dept.
WhichHost writes "Nokia and Intel's new alliance is aiming at creating and refining the power of "WiMax" as a new form of mobile-WiFi for devices such as laptops, cell-phones, etc. This is just the first step in making high-speed wireless networking available to the entire world. Covered at InformationWeek and Forbes as well." From the article: "Nokia and Intel Corp.'s development plans focus on mobile WiMax, which allows for roaming among base stations, as opposed to fixed WiMax, which is considered a replacement for DSL and cable lines."
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Nokia and Intel Group Up To Develop WiMax More

Nokia and Intel Group Up To Develop WiMax

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  • First, Apple and Nokia for new portable web browser [techwhack.com]
    Next, Apple and Intel deal to make processors for Apple computers.
    Now, Nokia and Intel to make hi-speed wifi.

    Will Apple be the first hardware vendor to have a portable device that uses the new hi-speed wifi w/ this browser?

    • Not your fault, given the summary; however, calling WiMax "high speed wifi" is not correct.

      Wi-Fi [wi-fi.org] is a trademark owned by the Wi-Fi Alliance, and is based on various parts of 802.11. It is a wireless local area network standard.

      WiMax [wimaxforum.org] is a trademark owned by the WiMax forum, and is 802.16d (Fixed WiMax) and 802.16e (Mobile WiMax) [.16e is not yet ratified by IEEE]. These are wireless metro or wide area network standards (depending on where you feel that difference lies)

      The two network technologies wi

    • Somehow, I think that this should have been moderated as "funny", like trying to find the Bacon number of an actor.

  • Explaining ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by kitzilla ( 266382 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .gorfrepap.> on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @02:55PM (#12816734) Homepage Journal
    ... Nokia's announcement yesterday that its new browser is being developed on Apple technology.

    The Dark Alliance gathers.

  • wouldn't it be cool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by toQDuj ( 806112 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @02:59PM (#12816780) Homepage Journal
    Now, I must point out that I haven't kept up-to-date with this techniligy, but wouldn't it be cool if all this wireless tech would automatically create a network with its surrounding similar wimax devices?
    Does it do this already? sort of like, forming ad hoc networks, pathways through other people's wireless equipment to the nearest internet link?
    Or is this just a dream..

    B.
    • I think you'd have to be in some pretty serious traffic in order to be able to connect adhoc and to WAP's on the fly like that. Say car1 w/ a WAP is in close proximity long enough to receive your broadcast for an IP. It returns the IP address to you and by the time your IP stack is repaired, it moves behind a big rig. So then you're broadcasting again, and get a WAP on the side of the road. By the time you broadcast, get an IP address, and then connect, you've passed the WAP and no longer receive a signal.

    • Sure, it would be nice to have ad hoc networking, but there are several problems; most visible to user are:

      • battery life, as you wireless device must also relay other people traffic
      • latency, as each wireless hop contributes a delay (WiMAX is better than WiFi, but still)
      • network stability, as radio environment changes (MIMO [wikipedia.org] may help for that)
      • security issues, both for user and provider,

      Anyway, I saw recently one slide from Nokia that they estimated that after 4G (that starts around 2010) there won't be a

  • Isn't this
    1. 802.16
    2. Old news?
    Is the "news" here that Nokia has joined with Intel in promoting WiMax?

    • Re:Uh... help me out here (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Nos. ( 179609 ) <`ac.srrekeht' `ta' `werdna'> on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @03:17PM (#12816958) Homepage
      Yes, 802.16 is WiMax, and yeah, there isn't much in the way of actual news here, which is why I never posted it at openwimax.org [openwimax.org]. Intel is fighting hard to promote there WiMax chip and get hardware manufacturers to include it in they're devices. The only thing interesting here is that a cell company (Nokia) is working with Intel. Typcially the cell phone companies are pushing 3G and 4G which are for the most part, competeing with WiMax. Interesting since WiMax promises an alternative to cell phones... mobile, wireless VoIP.
      • Typcially the cell phone companies are pushing 3G and 4G which are for the most part, competeing with WiMax. Interesting since WiMax promises an alternative to cell phones... mobile, wireless VoIP.

        People will still need a handset. Hence the involvement by Nokia. I don't see why Nokia really cares what protocol their phones are using as long as their still selling phones. Nokia, like Apple, is a hardware company.

        By the way, nice shameless plug for your site ;)
      • Before they start talking about making wireless available to the "entire world" they should think about getting cell phone service out where my parents live. Every time I hear talk like broadband is available everywhere it makes me think these have to be people who live very sheltered lives inside the city limits.

        Seriously though. Even cell phone service maps are nothing but a bunch of disconnected circles like the chicken pox in between interstates and cities. I would love it if they could actually do
        • Why? That's like saying we should have waited until we could land an aircraft on top of Mt. Everest before we flew into space. There's no reason to expand a technology that looks like it will soon be outdated unless it is economically viable. If its not currently viable to cover your parent's area, does that mean they should stop development of new wireless communcation protocols?
          • That's like saying we should have waited until we could land an aircraft on top of Mt. Everest before we flew into space.


            How is it saying they shouldn't advertise falsely that it would cover the entire planet when they don't even cover some areas in 2005 with regular cell service is like waiting for an aircraft carrier on Mt Everest? I think you misunderstand the whole point of my post and are too eager to flame.

        • Seriously though. Even cell phone service maps are nothing but a bunch of disconnected circles like the chicken pox in between interstates and cities.
          In the US. In Europe there is hardly a place when there is no mobile service, and there are plenty of places where one can not have broadband. So this WiMax would solve it.
      • Intel is fighting hard to promote there WiMax chip and get hardware manufacturers to include it in they're devices.

        Seriously, man. I try not to be a grammar Nazi, but there's only so much I can take before I get nauseous^H^H^Hated.

      • Nokia has no fear of exploring new grounds...

        It started as a paper manufacturer, the original long distance communication media, moved to telegraph cabling and finnaly to electronics and telecommunications!

        The Nokia history is really amazing, check it out at http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,1127,00.html [nokia.com]

  • Old Stories (Score:3, Funny)

    by orangeguru ( 411012 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @03:04PM (#12816838) Homepage
    ... one network to bind them ... ... and with WiMax to find them ...

  • If we all just wait six months (Score:3, Funny)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @03:09PM (#12816880) Homepage Journal
    SBC will be offering WiMax for $19.99 a month which you can use on your $300 laptop.

    Or you can pay thousands of dollars - for the same thing - now.

    The market cares nothing for your desires, and tech is just another commodity. So long as Japanese girls buy it, it will be made available.
  • With these expansive wireless networks, what secutiry features are going to be enabled? You will be essentially on a large LAN, what is to stop some person driving by your house from looking at your files. Also, what does this mean for file-sharing? LAN file-sharing programs like sharescan will allow users to anonymously transfer files. Watch out RIAA!!
    • The same things that protect my files from prying eyes on the networks I'm connected to right now. Firewalls, encryption, passwords, os/filesystem permissions, etc.
    • You will be essentially on a large LAN, what is to stop some person driving by your house from looking at your files.

      We already did that. After we finished reading them, the cops pulled us over for ROFL at what you had entered in them.

      Security by Obscurity - the latest choice
    • Security has been part of 802.16 from the beginning. Mostly this is because it's designed to be operated by ISPs, and they don't want non-customers to "borrow" free bandwidth off their access points.

  • Roaming between base stations... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FWMiller ( 9925 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @03:13PM (#12816919) Homepage

    This is the holy grail. IF this happens, it could represent the biggest challenge yet to the existing mobile phone network. The mobile phone network does this really well and currently the only thing out there that does.

    The problem is, this is really hard given the basic architecture of the Internet protocol suite. Lots of things just rely on your IP address not changing in the middle of a TCP session or a VoIP call or whatever. If you move between base stations with current WiFi, you have to change your IP address.

    The cell phone network solves this by essentially rerouting things on the fly at layer 2. This is really hard to do in the Internet. My guess that some kind of Layer 2 technology will be adopted to allow groups of WiMax base stations (all under the control of a single provider in all likelihood) to move an IP address from one base station to another quickly. Beyond that it takes sharing agreements and all that and that will be really tuff!!

    • The 2 big datavendors Sierra Wireless and Novatel have some nice data products that you can use VoIP on the go.

      Novatel has the Ovation, a product from a San Diego company, will have support most high speed including Wifi/WiMAX. Very interesting product, but Novatel doesnt support quad band GPRS, little problem.
      http://www.novatelwireless.com/products/ovation/i n dex.html [novatelwireless.com]

      Sierra Wireless has a great PC card coming out, support quad band, 850 and 900, so better coverage in the USA. Including the new HSPDA
    • True, roaming is a definite consideration, that being said, even if its not solved that quickly its not as bad as it is with WiFi. Remember, WiMax can have ranges of up to 31 miles [openwimax.org] (without line of sight) which would handle most day to day type uses. That being said, even if a brief interruption were to occur say every 25 miles, cacheing any broadcast type streaming could certainly compensate for the routing change, though live applications (like VoIP) could suffer some.
    • Make the whole thing peer-to-peer with the base stations in range of each other. Then it doesn't matter if packets go to the wrong base station, they can just get passed along, and over time the routing tables will be updated. It might mean we need to replace BGP with something more dynamic though.

    • That's why mobile IP [wikipedia.org] was created:

      Mobile IP provides an efficient, scalable mechanism for node mobility within the Internet. Using Mobile IP, nodes may change their point-of-attachment to the Internet without changing their IP address. This allows them to maintain transport and higher-layer connections while moving. Node mobility is realized without the need to propagate host-specific routes throughout the Internet routing fabric.

    • Mobile IP works great. But only if you have a public IP address, and some people might argue you should also have Mobile IP support at servers. Which both mean in practice, that you and the servers need IPv6 and Teredo tunnelling in the real life non-IPv6 Internet of today.

      All this you can have today on Windows XP SP2. The only thing missing are clients supporting IPv6, but there are some...

      I believe that currently this looks like the only real reason to have IPv6, but reason enough.
    • The difference is that an IP address is (relatively) anonymous. Cellular is more like tracking with a MAC address. You have your own unique ID number that follows you everywhere. If we could ensure that all ethernet connections have their own unique ID, then we could theoretically have Internet roaming, but the same technology that allows you to roam, would allow anyone to locate/identify you. That's why every stupid web site on the planet uses user+password identification. If we had roaming then any w
    • Right now, whoever releases a device that does this will not sell any more phones to the cellular providers. The reason it's the holy grail for you, is the reason it's the black plague to cellular companies. I don't like the business practices of cell companies, and I absolutely HATE I am stuck in the dark ages here in North America.

      Once the market for cell phones levels off, companies like Nokia will have all those engineers, and all those production setups.. and not much to produce anymore. That's when s
    • Here's an answer for you:
      http://mosquitonet.stanford.edu/mip/ [stanford.edu]
      http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mobileip-charter .html [ietf.org]
      http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~jnoonan/mobileip/mipwork.h tm [eeng.dcu.ie]

      overview: Your IP address is rooted with one provider who, when you're within his network sends traffic directly to you. When you're in a foreign n/w he forwards your traffic to an 'foreign agent' in the other n/w that sends it on to you. A mobile-ip daemon on your host takes care of all the automatic registration/deregistration.
      Th
  • how do you compare game console market to pc one?

    will Nokia release WiMax's driver for linux?

    when will Evolution/Nokia start support sync calendar/to-do/email with Nokia phone via bluetooth/infrared/cable?

    will Nokia support VOIP on new phones?

    I did add skype to Nokia 3650 - I use bluetooth to call or recieve calls
  • I wish companies would stop inventing and reinventing techologies and just spend the money to get broadband access to people outside of major cities.
    • Your ignorant of business. Why should they spend the money to bring you broadband (cable/dsl isnt cheap) if your not willing to shell out the development money? I run a pc shop and have been apart of 2 wireless ISP's (and working on my own now). WiMAX will be one of the BEST ways to bring that broadband to you just as wiFi is now (for the rural people). Companies are about making a buck. You want broadband? Put your money where your mouth is and DO IT YOURSELF. Its not hard at all just costly, just call up
  • Apple corporation what's your function?
    hooking up Intel and Nokia with WiMax.


  • My question is who will impliment this. WIll this mean that internet (dsl) monopolies will now move to cell phone carriers ? If this is the wave of the future it woudl be really nice to have this be a joint venture and allow any carrier to use it.
  • This is just the first step in making high-speed wireless networking available to the entire world.

    Great, I'm sure the starving people of Africa will appreciate being able to get access to their corporate email everywhere, all the time, on their Treos.
  • will Nokia Phones run OS X?
  • "This is just the first step in making high-speed wireless networking available to the entire world."

    Deja-vu...no...that was 3G!

    How many 'first steps' do we need?
  • Wake me up when they've solved the multipath and doppler problems at the high datarate.
  • I hate to rain on the Intel/Nokia love fest, but this just isn't gonna fly for the following reasons:

    1. 802.16x is not as advertised. It is not 50+Mb at 70 miles, it is either/or. The further out you get, the more the bandwidth drops, and it drops fast. This means more towers to cover a geographical area with acceptable service, which destroys the business model.

    2. 802.16 is a TDMA technology, which simply means time slices. Each connection (user) requires a time slice from the tower. As the density

  • Nokia's just not putting all it's eggs in telcos. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by WareW01f ( 18905 ) on Tuesday June 14, 2005 @07:00PM (#12819107)
    However, the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) has yet to ratify the mobile WiMax standard, known as 802.16e.

    Right. So the question is this, who really defines a standard a body like IEEE, or the first set of vendors to hit the market with a workable product. Sad, but painfully true. I say bully for them. Even if they come out with their own proprietary setup, if they release it soon, it'll only force the others to follow. That and it's not like I *really* used to choice in the telcom space anyway.(modem types, locked cell phones, etc)

    Telcoms need to find a niche and move there fast. "3G" is going to hit too little too late. My city is one of the brave that's planning on lighting up public WiFi which will blow the doors off any of the offerings that are coming Real Soon Now(TM) from our beloved telcos. Nokia's not stupid. I can see them offering a VOIP cellphone when the time is right. (And T-Mobile may be thinking about biting from what I here) That, and when it happens, it's going to be the areas with crappy cell coverage thumbing thier noses at what will by then be some 3 remaining cell companies.

    I'd start snatching up any dark fiber out there if I had the spare change to do so. I wouldn't be shocked at all if in a near future, cell phone companies have to roll to the old POTS model of not charging for local minutes and make their cash on long distance routing. I only own a cell now (ditched the POTS a while back) I have no qualms about VIOPing home from a free WiFi access point for local calls.
  • One of the great things about 802.11 is that there are no restrictions on its use. I can, using cheap hardware available anywhere, set up a wireless network anywhere for pretty much any purpose I want, subject to the limitations of the technology.

    I can play Starcraft with someone in another car next to me. I can let guests use my internet connection when they visit. I can check my email from my parking lot.

    Wifi has, IMO, been such a great success because it goes back to the P2P nature of the Internet. Rat
    • "Wifi has, IMO, been such a great success because it goes back to the P2P nature of the Internet. Rather than being a captive customer to (say) a cell phone company that owns all the cards, it's a technology for me to use for free for whatever I want.

      Will WiMax be the same? Can I go to Circuit City, shell out $whatever for WiMax equipment, and check my email from a mile away from my apartment?"

      No. You pay for either a fixed or mobile WiMAX service from a telcom provider. For the fixed service, you put an
  • Wireless 802.something could be used for hot spot phones if it incorporated many of the features that cell tower/phones use. One that would have helped our Cisco VOIP deployment is full duplex wireless.

    Just another pipe dram of mine... I hope my grandkids will have it. :-(
  • There seems to be some confusion as to what WiMAX will do, even the industry is confused. WiFi uses a public bandwidth, it shouldn't be used by Telco's because they're will be huge regulatory issues involved. However using WiFi in McDonald's...etc is okay because McDonalds owns the property, and hence can use that bandwidth (but only in that property). WiMAX will used regulated bandwidth (like 3G,GSM etcc..). I'm sure WiMAX uses FDMA, although it could be viewed as TDMA because it doesn't use a differen
  • check out www.coconnect out of St. Gorge Utah, it is the future for right now for high speed wireless,
    1. no additional equipment needed other than your existing wireless card (wimax uses a huge antennae!!??) 2. up to 54 mpbs 39.95 a month and free dial up wireless to anybody 3. free roaming all over the city even while you drive walk or whatever (wimax is a point to point fixed wireless??) 4. iptv 5. voip 6. uses nodes on top of buildings to communicate with each other creating a mesh network over the
  • Competition for Motorola Canopy [canopywireless.com].

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