Internet Movies Before DVD 418
alfrin writes "Actor Morgan Freeman and Intel are starting a company that will sell movies over the Internet before they are released to DVD. "We're going to bypass what the music industry had to come up with, and that's to get ahead of the whole piracy thing," Freeman told reporters at Sun Valley after making his presentation, which was closed to the press. Wouldn't this just make it easier to pirate movies?"
Shawshank (Score:3, Funny)
Batman in the movie business? (Score:2, Funny)
Need a photographic memory to remember all Morgan's roles!
Re:Shawshank (Score:2)
I mean, the MPAA and RIAA are nuts, right? If only he were alive, he'd make a great spokesman.
Re:Shawshank (Score:3, Funny)
I mean, the MPAA and RIAA are nuts, right? If only he were alive, he'd make a great spokesman.
Not shrill enough. I'm thinking Bobcat Goldthwait can handle RIAA duties and Gilbert Godfried can run PR for the MPAA.
Now that's a perfect fit.
Re:Shawshank (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Shawshank (Score:3, Funny)
Then I realized I'd read it in Samuel L. Jackson mental voice, and not Morgan Freeman. So I went back and read it again, but it wasn't as funny.
Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, the movie industry has done a reasonably good job of keeping ahead of the market forces that drive piracy. Depsite all the complaints about movies getting on the Internet early (as if the problem didn't exist with bootlegs prior to the Internet), I haven't seen any evidence that it has been a widespread issue. Your average person seems happy enough to go to the theater, buy a DVD, or sign up with Netflix.
The ones who should really be worried is television. The DVD rehashes of shows have helped, as have PVRs like TIVO. But the general populace is starting to get pretty annoyed about being told when they can and can't watch television. If TV doesn't reinvent itself as an internet business soon, the reprocussions could be of Napster proportions!
Re:Finally (Score:5, Interesting)
Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:5, Insightful)
1. How many do you actually watch?
2. How many do you use to buy friends with?
3. How many get thrown on a spindle and forgotten?
I know people that download almost 50 movies/TV shows/games a month. When I ask them how many they actually watch/play, it's rarely 20% at most.
I think this stems from the fact that having so much media readily available to us is still a relatively new concept. It was only 10 years ago that it took us 2 hours to download a 5 minute, low-quality movie (usually porn). I believe people are thinking "Wow !! i CAN have all these movies", not "Wow !! I want to WATCH all these movies".
I believe that when our kids grow up, they won't have this desire to accumulate all this media, because they'll be able to watch/play all this stuff when they want it.
Instead of paying $50/month of DVD, just to have the pleasure of burning and stock-piling them, why not hire 10 DVDs for $30 from your local video shop and buy some beers to drink while you watch.....
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:2)
I see my unused bandwidth and it just seems like such a waste
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:3, Interesting)
max out 2 8mb connections and spend tons of time burning the images to dvd, but really i just like keeping track of these things.
how many good or even decent movies, or songs from 25 years ago just disappeared? how much culture is lost? looking back sure you can get a megahit album from the beatles or bob dylan, but most of the mediocre stuff that just fills the airwaves is lost. Most people would say "good riddance" but we are defined by the crap as well as the art. It will be sad if
size matters (Score:3, Interesting)
my main server has 2tb online right now, the download barrier for me is very low. if i see something online and had any interest in it at some point, click, boop, its queued. unlimited bandwith coupled with near unlimited storage capacity (like 5 dvd burners around) mean you get everything, and
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:3, Interesting)
I felt kinda like this back in 97 when I first got on the internet. Downloading and printing crap every spare moment... probably took me a year or so to realize that "THE INTERNET WILL STILL BE THERE IN THE MORNING!!" ha ha ha.
I still have tons of old programs and games I'll never use. I must have about 5 or 6 gigs of windows 95 drivers still too.
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:4, Insightful)
For instance, when i was in school there came a time when 5 1/4" floppies fell below a dollar a per disc, in bulk. At this point it became extremely reasonable to make a copy of every single program that anyone had. A floppy, though a neat little utility called disk muncher, could be spread throughout the school in a day or two. It did not matter what the program did, or if you would use it, just that you had it. Students left high school with hundreds of floppies.
So i don't think it is because access to conent is new. I thinkmany people like to hoard, and if one takes the time to download, one might as well burn it to a $.20 CD. I agree that taking the time to rip a movie a every movie one gets to DVD might indicate additional concerns, but the concept is the same.
Also, I think this is one of the places where piracy is a term best not used. The content owners really need to focus their defenses on the firms that utilize stolen software for administration of profit. I mean once i got some cash, and grew up, the piracy went way down.
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:5, Interesting)
I think some of it is one giant pissing contest as to who can have the most movies, sometimes it's the "I'll get around to watching it later" syndrome, and sometimes it's just to have something to watch that you've never seen before available at all times. Sort of like saying "I've only seen this Simpsons 20 times before, so maybe I'll just finish watching Cowboy Bebop instead". And sometimes, it's because we remember waiting three days to download the first half of Blade in crap Telesync before realizing that the actual movie came out the next day. Even with the slowness, being (most likely) the first people in the community to have a movie from the 'internets' was a pretty big thing back then. Maybe some people just haven't gotten over it.
But you're right. It could get way out of hand...
Unless we're talking about Pr0n. Then it will likely never get out of hand.
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, there are people who archive useful websites, because sometimes, these websites change (become less useful) or disappear completely. You and I would probably not devote much time to this, because we know that we can usually rely on the Internet Archive or Google's cache to make snapshots (not always, but that's the risk we're taking). However, if it was information that had a reasonable chance of not being preserved due to external influence (ie, internal Diebold memo on how to fix elections for the highest bidder), then people would hoard it just for the sake for hoarding it, due to its potential value in scarcity. Ironically, because of that potential value, it would probably be less scarce than if it was a run of the mill technical document.
Given the movie/music industry's more or less stated goal of converting all of their "property" into licensable forms, preferably forms that expire on you (remember Divx - not DivX;), but the DVD you could rent to view for 24, then throw away?), hoarding what you can get, while you can still get it, isn't as crazy an idea as you might think. Of course, there's always the other explanation of hoarding specific items - some people are just natural-born packrats.
I believe you're right on. (Score:3, Interesting)
Hey, what if I need that program some day? What if they stop Bittorrent and all the other stuff by requiring ISP's to only allow cached web traffic? What if?
It could happen, and in the current climate of technology things, it seems likely. In the meantime, I'm downloading everything I can get because in the future I might not be able to.
Of course, I wouldn't bother if this shit wasn't so expensive. $25 for a movie? $60 for a game
Re:I believe you're right on. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a nice feeling when you have a "complete" set. Like hockey cards, coins, stamps, TV episodes (back when you had to try to record reruns to get em all). Or even reconciling your credit card bill with receipts and having everything match up...
Re:Piracy for the Sake of Piracy. A.K.A. hoarding (Score:3, Insightful)
I used to download, burn and spindle every game that ever game out, in thoughts that "I'll want to play it some day". Now I barely play games at all, and I have 7 spindles of games from 5+ years ago that are collecting dust.
What a useless obsession...
- shazow
Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)
See, right now most people don't have the bandwidth for subscription based movie download services, and as very few actually want to watch movies on a 19 inch monitor, converting and burning to DVDs is non-trivial. It's somewhat like the old axiom: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of quarter inch tapes." For a lot (if not most) people, getting two DVDs a week by mail is much more efficient than downloading, so the subs
Re:Finally (Score:2)
Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think many people are going drop TV as the medium in favor of something that's unreliable. I know I sure didn't tune in to the Daily Show on TV when ShunTV was around...but now, without a consistently reliable source for it I watch it on TV.
I don't think we're going to be able to get a good distribution point for it as long as a threatening letter or a lawsuit can bring one down (which will be the case for the foreseeable future).
JMHO
Re:Finally (Score:4, Informative)
Comedy Central has the latest show on its website the day after it airs. They seem to leave out the less-funny segments sometimes, but they always seem to have the monologue, and sometimes the whole show if it was really great.
Re:Finally (Score:5, Interesting)
If they could modify the formula so that the shows with potential could get as much playing time as those that are already hits, I would be all for it right now. The crap factor is just terrible on TV right now.
We have got to take these decisions from them (Score:4, Insightful)
The interesting movies/TV shows/records/content never get made because they aren't going to be block-busters and the studio system has gotten so bloated and expensive with the hangers-on.
We need a distribution channel (like an IMDB with iTunes-like media distribution) for movies that aren't and will never be block-busters but that are good anyway.
The studios used to produce quite a few a month but that got too expensive. Then came the indies but the studion and distribution companies own all the distribution channels, ergo, I don't get to see any interesting films.
The theater chains and the multiplexes can never run the movies long enough for me. By the time that I'm ready to see them, they're already gone.
But if I could pick 'em up off the net, legally, when I want to see them, I would.
Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this shortsightedness is just a sign of the times, though. Everyone seems to be looking to mazimize short term gain at the lowest risk. Sadly, greatness is rarely born out of such a world-view.
It's already happening (Score:5, Insightful)
Bad movies, on the other hand, have a hard time drumming up rentals if they really bombed in the theater. ("Catwoman" is a great example. I personally thought it wasn't half as bad as people made it out to be -- but are you going to spend your money on it?)
I've heard it from more than one Hollywood type: Movies have the glamor, but TV is where the real money is. (Though maybe that depends which side of the camera you're on.)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Right. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Right. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is exactly this kind of illegal downloading that would go away if they offered reasonably priced legitimate copies. It's true that they will have to offer some recording capability (probably with reduced resolution) -- people feel pretty strongly about their ability to record what they see on their TV.
However, for all the grandstanding of the media companies in the US, the real "piracy" (actually, a very bad term [gnu.org]) problem they face is in the far east. The problem is not people downloading low-resolution copies of movies (which doesn't cost them much business), but entire factories which churn out illegally copied DVDs, and people who buy the cheap fakes rather than the expensive originals.
Will this make it easier to pirate movies? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Will this make it easier to pirate movies? (Score:5, Funny)
2) Use said funds to send key hackers to a tropical island with spotty net access and an open bar
3) Piracy defeated.
4) Profit!
Re:Will this make it easier to pirate movies? (Score:2)
Re:Will this make it easier to pirate movies? (Score:4, Funny)
2.5) Give hackers eypatches, hooks, and stuffed parrots so they can still be pirates.
Re:Will this make it easier to pirate movies? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not that hackers are smart, but that DRM simply can not ever work. "DVD Jon" is only successful because he understands this obvious fact.
The only question is will the content be sold conveniently and cheaply enough that no one would want to bother pirating
Re:Will this make it easier to pirate movies? (Score:2)
Re:The Intel Connection (Score:2)
Complete Contradiction (Score:2, Funny)
Is this guy versatile or what?
Re:Complete Contradiction (Score:3, Insightful)
Not at all. (Score:2)
+5 HIIIIIIILARIOUS!!!!!!!!! (Score:2)
It might decrease piracy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It might decrease piracy... (Score:2)
Re:It might decrease piracy... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It might decrease piracy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Like for music, there is lots of material out there and each individual desire probably to own much more stuff than what is wallet can afford. In consequence even if they lower the prices, there revenue wont go down. The people who where spending 200$ each year on movie purchase will still spend it but will just get more. The people like me who weren't buying anything will maybe start to do so. I hope they will realize that they can make much more money on the volume than on the price of each movie.
Re:It might decrease piracy... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is probably the case where they'll make huge amounts of money, but your point shouldn't be discounted completely. I recall reading a report about which genres of music saw the biggest spike from being made available on the iTunes store versus their sales in conventional CD outlets and the survey said that it was Polka. I thought that was a joke, but thinking about it made sense. The genre is practically dead in regular CD outlets and the simplicity of the iTunes interface makes even a grandmother able to figure things out. I bet they probably get a LOT of impulse buys from people who are fans of obscure artists or genres.
There are a lot of things I think the iTunes music store could improve, but this ability to provide obscure music is a unique service. Let's hope a movie model like this can do something similalry worthwhile.
Re:It might decrease piracy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Absolutely on the mark. Problem is, the copyright extensions Disney keep getting will always keep a lot of good material away from the public domain. If you haven't found it yet, try here for a few interesting movies which haven't been locked away. http://www.archive.org/details/movies [archive.org] The biggest section by far is the open-source mo
Not very efficient.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not very efficient.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not very efficient.... (Score:3, Insightful)
getting the download out before the DVD is key, as part of the motivation for piracy is to be the first kid on the block with the latest and greatest. This shortens the time span for which that is a motivation.
Re:Not very efficient.... (Score:2)
My guess is that the market for low quality, shaky-cam movies is very, very small in reality. It's not like MP3s where you're usually listening to them in environments like your car. If you're watching downloaded movies, you
Re:Not very efficient.... (Score:2)
I've been screaming about this for years.. let me download a movie, in divx or xvid, without the damned drm for $5 and I'll be the first in line. btw, I'm in Canada. I'd really like to be able to do that here. I can't afford $100 to take my wife to a movie anymore, (sitters, food, gas etc) and I absolutley HATE taking
Re:Not very efficient.... (Score:2)
Except that high end bootlegs are usually of the Telecine, telesync or screener types which are better quality.
Telecine is a true transfer from film to digital, telesync's are normally shot from the projection booth with a direct audio feed. Screeners are less common nowdays, but are ripped from DVD or VHS advance copies of the film.
Generally speaking the quality is of course lower than a DVD or seeing the film i
Inferior bootlegs are fine for inferior movies... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, they're inferior, pirated copies, but for most people that seems to be good enough.
If Hollywood were capable of making films that were good enough to merit the trouble of going to a theater and paying the premium price to see it, then people wouldn't be satisfied with crappy camcorder internet bootlegs.
no more ???? (Score:2, Insightful)
Get with Apple, do a (probably relatively minor) code revision to iTunes for the selection/shopping engine and DRM (face it, its gonna have it in some fashion) and add video support, maybe do some more work to use distributed downloading like bittorrent or have multiple mirrors in network-close proximity (work with cable and satellite cos?) to users, and have at it.
Apple, Intel, Freeman (Score:2)
Apple also has the H.264 codec. According to their site [apple.com], "H.264 delivers stunning video quality at remarkably low data rates, so you see crisp, clear video in much smaller files."
But, H.264 needs a fast processor. Now, Apple has fast enough processors, but only in their high-end lines.
Apple moves to Intel. Intel has faster proces
Re:no more ???? (Score:2)
DRM, would work best if each user is issued a different key, and the media file encoded with said key. Otherwise it's security through obscurity, you're hoping noone figures out how to get hold of the keys and starts to distribute them.
Re:more like compete with apple (Score:2)
Why would this help piracy? (Score:3, Insightful)
1. burn it to a CD, then rip the CD, thus losing quality
2. record the audio as you play it
3. crack the encryption.
However, with a video, #1 and #2 are out of the question. Unless, of course, you really want to hook up an S-Video/etc. out plug to a digital camera or VCR, record the playback to the camera, and transfer it back. It's just not feasible. Unless (until?) the encryption is cracked, this won't help piracy one bit.
Re:Why would this help piracy? (Score:2, Informative)
I could reasure you that this is NOT out of the question, I grab overlay video frames at 30fps with FRAPS routinelly, no big deal, also with loseless compression so there is about 0.1% degradation.
Video on-demand is offered here by local Telecom at www.starzone.cz for about a year now. And is very successfull and cheap, at least the localy produced films are.
Re:Why would this help piracy? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Type movie name into search box, click enter.
2. Download movie.
3. Watch.
P.S. Video capture card + Winamp plugin to capture output to DirectSound and write to disk + editing/compression software of choice = digital quality piracy.
P.P.S. You never need to "crack" the encryption when someone gives you the cyphertext, the cypher specification, and the secret key.
Music industry Suffering? (Score:2, Insightful)
Since when is the music industry in a real slump?
About the movies, I wish they would do this and make it as portable/open as possible, but as we all know it will be DRM'd out the ass and completely unusable except at Uncle Bob's house on Tuesday after 5pm.
Great Idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Great Idea (Score:3, Insightful)
What _is_ this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod Morgan Freeman Redudant (Score:2, Interesting)
He Saved Earth From The Comet (Score:2)
Then again, probably not.
Give the public what it wants! (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Good quality
2. Readily available
3. The price is right
Most people, to this day, don't know that most DVD movies are encrypted and have the Macrovision(r) switch turned on. They just put the disc in and press play. What they care about are the three things above.
Item #3 doesn't mean free. In fact, it can't be free because if people see a price that's too low, they will think it sucks. #2 is important because from what I have seen, people download movies mostly because they aren't available on DVD yet. When the DVDs come out, they often buy'em... (or not based on whether they liked the movie...) #1 is pretty obvious, but I think it's not as important a draw as the later two. It is significant, however, as at present, in order to make video content on the internet feasable, a sacrifice in image quality will likely have to be made even with the best consumer grade broadband. So even if they capture the stream and put it on a DVD and can even play it that way, it will not likely measure up to the quality of a production DVD which would be a motivating factor to buying the DVD... not necessarily instead of downloading and not necessarily in addition to downloading either. I don't think the two are connected drives.
Re:Give the public what it wants! (Score:2)
Freeman +1, MPAA -1 (Score:5, Insightful)
if an actor almost 70(!!) can understand the importance of new technology, why can't a "consortium" of movie companies who "supposedly" have our best interests in mind embrace digital distribution?
Buy movies by the scene? (Score:2)
With some music distribution models, I can buy individual songs I like without having to pay for the entire album. I did it with 45's, single-song tapes (with a "B" side), single CD's (with 4 re-mix versions of the same song), and of course with Internet disti models.
What if instead of buying an entire movie, I could simply purchase by the chapter? I could take a movie like... Pirates of the Carribean, and buy only the scenes that I thought were cool or enjoyable. They could even bundle "action-packs" or "
Re:Buy movies by the scene? (Score:2)
Intel's Involvement? (Score:3, Informative)
It sounds like they intend to DRM this tech heavily, but it baffles me a bit how they intend to do this. The download format will be encrypted, but if it is decrypted for display there are a lot of ways to record that stream. What do they intend to do? Put intel chips in televisions themselves? Degrade the signal so any additional lossy compression will render it as unwatchable? Junk it up with video bugs to identify the original source? Maybe they just assume that Joe User will be able to steal 3 or 4 movies, but he'll soon give up if he fills up his hard disk and decides it's just easier to stream them all the time.
Any speculation or additional articles on what this plan intends to implement?
Re:Intel's Involvement? (Score:2)
Ding-ding! We have a winnar.
This is obviously just a way (Score:3, Funny)
for an aging actor to get into Lori McCreary's [yimg.com] pants. I can't blame him - she's easy on the eyes.
O'course, having seen his off-camera personality, I suspect he's more into the one he has his arm around.
Piracy, Arrrr... (Score:3, Insightful)
Lets just hope they use Real Player! ;) (Score:2)
Will this service ease the piracy of movies? (Score:3, Insightful)
But it will also make it easier for people to legitimately buy movies.
No irritating crying children.
No people who smell bad.
No waiting.
No hassle.
No lines.
No fuss.
Given the choice, I think that most people would like to compensate the actors, directors and producers of a movie. What that price point is, remains to be seen.
If it would be computer-tethered and non-portable, I personally wouldn't shell out more than $5.00 (matinee ticket price).
Thank Goodness! (Score:2)
And how long has it taken the movie industry to realise that you can mix around the Cinema -> DVD -> TV approach to satisfy customers? I've always believed that piracy flourishes due to lack of a commercial alternative and here we have someone looking at providing the movies in the period where consumers are demanding to watch the movie and are forced to go the cinema before the run is over.
This sort of approa
Watermark? (Score:2)
Would it not be difficult to eliminate, or even detect, such a watermark which gives a traceable signature back to the source?
From PBS's "The Electric Company" to This (Score:2)
Um... is that a real question? (Score:4, Interesting)
Wouldn't this just make it easier to pirate movies?
No, not really. You'd have less interested parties in your stolen warez. Of course, this all depends on the price. If the movies are going to be $20 a pop, then yes, it will just continue to get pirated. If they were only $5, most (read: all but the cheap) people would rather own a legit copy than a pirated DVD rip. Think about it this way:
If you could get an entire album of music for $5 that you had full rights to (i.e. able to play it on any device you owned and able to make a backup as well), it has been proven time and time again that people are more willing to pay for something rather than steal it (which nobody can really argue, downloading albums without permission is illegal, whether moral or not).
It should be interesting to see what price structure this thing will have, as that's about the only thing that will make it worth anyone's while. Otherwise, it will just aid piracy. As Eisner said in one of his few moments of wisdom, Price and availability are the only real combatants to piracy. The question here is whether it will be a step in the right direction, not whether it will make piracy easier. Piracy is already far from difficult.
Yes, this will work provided... (Score:4, Insightful)
2. Delivery is sane: No funky P2P implementation. I'll be damned if I pay for a movie and have to use my own connection to help the publishers distribute it. Better cough up the bucks for the fat pipes, cause you're gonna need them.
3. Timing is sane: Say, really really soon after a movie premieres? Maybe 5 working days? If not, cheap bastards like me will just score it off ***net. It's not just about the quality, it's about the timeliness too.
4. DRM is sane: I'd better be able to shift the vid around, or view it without being connected to the mothership. Or better yet, forget DRM, because
we'll just film it off the monitor if we can't crack the copy protection. Have you seen high quality telecines? They're free, and they look real decent. You can't compete with that.
5. Selection is sane: Don't just limit the choice of movies to the latest corporate trash. Some of us like the weird obscure unseen shit. Donnie Darko would have been a worldwide smash if the publishers had the brains to properly promote it.
6. Quality is sane: The vids had better not be the size of a postage stamp. And perhaps, offer the viewer the vids in a variety of formats and codecs.
People Don't Like to Steal (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People Don't Like to Steal (Score:3, Insightful)
How much and how soon? (Score:2, Insightful)
These movie services may force some ISPs to upgrade their service and increase their us
Apple + h.264? (Score:3, Insightful)
Damien
Hey Morgan! (Score:2)
Re:movielink is an alternative (Score:2)
Re:If they're going to pirate it anyway.. (Score:2)
Yes, Shhhh! People overreact to threat of piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
OTOH, I wish that entreprenuers could gloss over concerns of encouraging piraacy.
Isn't that the argument so many pirates use to rationalize their actions? IE, "If only the RIAA had offered music online for my convenience and pleasure, I wouldn't have to use Kazaa!"
At every turn, the **AAs (and those who fund the production of media)oppose most any digital content distribution system because of fears of piracy. I
Re:Piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, becaus
Re:Piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
The same way you reward someone for designing a house or cutting your hair. You pay him for his labor, and then he doesn't have to worry about what you're going to do with the song he wrote (or the house he designed, or the stylish 'do he gave you) because his job is done.
If he asks more than you're willing to pay on your own, then you get your friends together, tell them about what a great artist he is, and ask them to chip in.
For us to rew