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GUI Software Operating Systems

An Actively Developed GUI for ... FreeDOS? 63

Posted by timothy from the esotericism dept.
shanecoughlan writes "FreeDOS, the GPL DOS distribution, has a powerful little graphical user interface called OpenGEM being actively developed for it. Well, powerful is relative. OpenGEM is based off the DR GEM GUI from the 1980s, and is a 16bit single-tasking GUI that tends not to use extended memory. While KDE and GNOME might not be shaking in their boots, it's an interesting opensource project in its own right. And it runs on a 286 with 640kb of RAM..."
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An Actively Developed GUI for ... FreeDOS? More

An Actively Developed GUI for ... FreeDOS?

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  • Remember kids... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by alanoneil ( 749691 )
    "640k ought to be enough for anybody"

    Seriously though, It's good to see some developers going back to the roots of coding tight, efficient programs given certain constraints, instead of making huge bloated apps and recommending PCs built around the app.

    • Re:Remember kids... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 )
      On the other hand, the arbitrary constraints that plagued various aspects of the PC architecture are just plain wrong. With a 16-bit segment register and a 16-bit offset register, you'd expect the thing to be able to address more than 20 bits worth of memory.

      Hard drives also hit various limits at various times...BIOS limits, limitations of the CHS addressing scheme, and we might soon be hitting a limit the LBA addressing scheme as well (although that at least makes sense).

      Of course, all these limits exist b

      • Re:Remember kids... (Score:2, Informative)

        by triso ( 67491 )
        Arbitrary limitation is still going on, too. Try to buy a AMD 64 that can handle more then 4 GB of RAM. Most of the 64 bit motherboards have only 4 slots for SIMMs and it is even possible that some of the chipsets are limited to 4 GB RAM.

        I thought the main purpose of 64 bit CPUs was to break the 4 GB barrier.
  • I guess that means he's developing on a real PC, not an emulator.

  • No screenshots? (Score:3, Funny)

    by ZosX ( 517789 ) <zosxavius.gmail@com> on Tuesday July 26, 2005 @11:57PM (#13173688) Homepage
    I want to bask in the glory of 640x480x16 all over again!

  • This is an interesting project. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jd ( 1658 ) <imipakNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @12:17AM (#13173780) Homepage Journal
    GEM was a nice GUI - I used it quite a bit. It wasn't that powerful, but it did what it was designed to do. An Open Source version of DesqView would make an excellent companion project to this, as that was the other popular environment of the day.


    There were only a few other packages that were really of exceptional worth - so exceptional, they were "must-haves" for anyone from home users to corporate users. Although, in many ways, nobody would really "use" these programs today, they would have massive educational value as they would provide an excellent way for people to study key components of modern systems without having to dive into all the modern complexity.


    The packages I would consider "exceptional" would be QEMM (I can't see anyone disagreeing there) and Norton Guides (good intro to interrupt stacking and context sensitivity). Possibly the EARLY Norton Utilities as well.

    • I worked with GEM a lot in 1987. It was plenty fast on an 8 mhz 286... ESPECIALLY when compared to Windows 3.1. Fast as in 10x to 20x as fast. Plenty fast for desktop publishing, which was my main app. GEM even ran on 21" displays.

      In 20/20 hindisight, we're probably well served that Windoz is such a resource hog. Moore's law isn't enough to give us 4Ghz CPUs or a Gigabyte of RAM for $100... it also takes big market demand.

      But imagine a world where an 8mhz 286 with 2-4 MEG of RAM was fast enough to do
      • ...

        But imagine a world where an 8mhz 286 with 2-4 MEG of RAM was fast enough to do everything you do today. We could have been building on that for nearly 20 years.

        Today I have a Gig of RAM and a 3Ghz CPU. It's barely adequate on many apps. This story certainly makes me ask "what if?"

        Agreed. I noticed that with old, stable HW (e.g.: Apple ][, the old Atari 2600)... when the hw base did not change (no trace of Moore's law), SW tended to routinely set new records in terms of efficiency/features/powe
    • An Open Source version of DesqView would make an excellent companion project to this, as that was the other popular environment of the day.

      DesqView opened their binaries after they went defunct or were bought out several years ago. I d/led all the DV versions plus QEMMs (also opened at the time) and tried them in a DOSbox; they worked justs as I remembered them (but not in EMS IIRC). Isn't it funny how memories tend to gloss over difficulties? Even using it running on DR-DOS 7.03 ("Musltitasking") did no

  • Needs web browser (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ArmorFiend ( 151674 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @12:38AM (#13173846) Homepage Journal
    So who has the cahones to develop a standards-compliant web browser for this gui? Meet the new killer app. Same as the old killer app.

    I've been poking around for a viable web-surfing configuration for an 8mb pentium-1 system, and there really is nothing out there.

    • So who has the cahones to develop a standards-compliant web browser for this gui?

      Who has the cojones to develop a standards-compliant web browser full stop? Gecko ain't compliant and never will be [mozilla.org]. Same goes for every other browser.

      I've been poking around for a viable web-surfing configuration for an 8mb pentium-1 system, and there really is nothing out there.

      Try an older Slackware.

      • I've never found a way to install even the oldest slackware you find on the ftp servers on a machine with less than 16mb ram and just 1 floppy drive
        • Really? What version was that? I remeber getting the 2.1 version on a 2 megabyte 386. Now, that was somewhat below the reccomended configuration even at the time, so we had to pull a few tricks, but it worked. Also, i remember running a this version on a 486 with 4 meg (inc. X and fvwm95) with very few problems. Compiling the kernel took 3 hours, but other than that things were just dandy. Of course, a modern graphical browser would probably kill it outright (just use top to see the memory firefox consume
    • Try Arachne [arachne.cz]
        I personally installed it on a 12Mhz 286 with 2Mb of ram, ISA2000 clone lan card with 10Base2 and Monochome VGA monitor. And with NCACHE (Norton equiv of SmartDrive) configured to use 96kb of XMS was usable (without it - it would take a lot to save all the files of a webpage to the disk cache).
      On a IBM PC110 (486SX 33mhz, 8Mb RAM) it really flies.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • OpenBSD runs on a 486 with 8MB ram, you can use lynx to browse. Now, as for graphical stuff, I don't know, I never dared...
    • What about DOS + Arachne [arachne.cz]?
    • I've been out of the Atari ST world for a while, but I remember people developing web browsers for them. They where single tasking computers that ran GEM and most only had 4 MB. Of course, the browsers probably weren't full featured.
    • So who has the cahones to develop a standards-compliant web browser for this gui? Already done: And it's GPLed. Get it here: http://home.arachne.cz/ [arachne.cz] Also, Caldera's old DR-DOS 7.03 came with a DR-Webspy, a browser that ran, together with the OS, off a floppy. Some years ago IBM marketed a browser based on an early Arachne with a more normal GUI.

    • My first try would be Win98SE and K-Meleon [sourceforge.net]. I remember how slow even Win95 was on 8MB of memory, so maybe that's not an adequate option.

      You could also try installing an extremely minimal version of either Linux or BSD, along with a stipped-down X and try to run Dillo [dillo.org] or Links [sourceforge.net]. The latter will do SSL and graphics if setup just right.
  • I still pine for this shell in a BBS, DOS 3.3, Mac-still-sucked way. Amazingly powerful for its day. It should be open-sourced and truly, we would be faced with a Windows killer. http://www.geos-infobase.de/GEOS1/GEOS1_01.GIF [geos-infobase.de]
    • While it doesn't come with source, it does let folks use the GeoManager under DOS.

      I've been finding myself using GVFM [ntlworld.com] more and more under DOS, too (a DOS GUI file manager in the style of Windows Explorer).

         
    • Heh... Windows killer in the 3.1 days, and MAYBE the 95 days, but that's it.

      If you don't mind buying a $99 copy on floppy disks, http://www.breadbox.com/geocats.asp [breadbox.com] is NewDeal Office 2000 - the last version created by GeoWorks.

      It's still in development by Breadbox Software, but they aren't selling their updated version, Breadbox Ensemble, to individuals. The trial's still available, though...
    • I wrote several college papers in GeoWrite and GeoDraw on a screaming 486 with (gasp!) 16M of RAM! Everyone else was using WordPerfect 5.1 under Win3.1.

      GeoDraw's "nudge" buttons allowed me to push an object by one pixel (up, down, left right), something I have longed for in every single graphics package I've used since then. Their Tetris is still the nicest I've ever played. For a few years after, I'd still have Geos installed on a 486 just to play Tetris. I bet I still have my 3.5" install disks somewhere.
      • They came out with an SDK for 2.0, and updated SDKs for the various handheld devices that used the OS.

        It was pretty nice to work with. I've never found anything else that comes close to the ease of creating a GUI using the GEOS APIs.

        People who were comfortable with MFC before trying the GEOS SDK tended to have a hard time, but if you didn't know either, GEOS programming was far easier to learn and use. The main hardship of GEOS programming was the fact that the OS ran in real mode, which rather limited the
    • It's very, very unlikely to ever stand a chance of being open sourced. There's too much licensed code around the system. The issue isn't so much replacing the code, but rather tracking down people who know enough about it to locate and remove the licensed code.

      Even if the code was open sourced, you'd have a half gigabyte of 16 bit assembly code. There's not a lot of people who'd be willing to go through the effort of making that usable.
  • Sure its nifty and all, but why does one person's small project make the news? It doesn't even seem to be a team of people, and it is limited to one small OS. Is he giving bribes to the editors? Are the editors FreeDOS users? I am not trying to imply that it isn't a cool project or worth doing, but that if his project makes the news so should the majority of sourceforge projects. Me first please.
    • This isn't just one person's small project, it's several people's small project.

    • Re:Slow News Day? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by salesgeek ( 263995 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @06:52AM (#13174971) Homepage
      Sure its nifty and all, but why does one person's small project make the news?

      Puhleeeez. Every time Slashdot features any small project someone has to pop in and bitch that it's not important, who cares, why is /. covering it and on and on... Sit down and have a nice cup of shut the @##@$@ up and be happy that another project just got a little sunshine.

      Incidentally, this project is actually useful and could be yet another killer open source application when it grows up. Do you know how many old computers are out there that are obsolete only because there's no free lightweight desktop OS with internet connectivity for them?

      Frankly, the only way a small project becomes a big one is when other developers, supporters and users find out the project exists and can contribute to it.

      I am not trying to imply that it isn't a cool project or worth doing, but that if his project makes the news so should the majority of sourceforge projects.

      Of course your not, but you are bitter about something. Don't be a boo-bird.

      Me first please.

      At least you admit it, thought which is a step up from usual :)
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • We don't need more than 640kb of ram after all!

    (firefox is currently using 130mb with a fat 620mb vm size... oops - but that is all page data and media and bad flash plugin / mem handling)

    • We don't need more than 640kb of ram after all! (firefox is currently using 130mb with a fat 620mb vm size... oops - but that is all page data and media and bad flash plugin / mem handling)

      For crying out loud! How tough is it to get the capitalisation right? Its MB (Mega Bytes) and KB (Kilo Bytes). This really annoys me with PC users today who seem to use bits and bytes interchangeably. I was trying to get broadband the other day from British Telecom of all people and the woman on phone assured me t

      • Re:See Bill Was Right! (Score:2, Informative)

        by Xenkar ( 580240 )
        Actually a capital K is used for the Kelvin [wikipedia.org] temperature scale in the Metric System. kilo [wikipedia.org] uses a lowercase k.

        The file size is 932 kiloBytes.
        It is 305 Kelvin outside.
      • Apparently quite hard, since it is MB and kB. The latter is sometimes written just K, but never KB (which could of course mean Kelvin-Byte).
      • You know, only non-geeks have to adhere to the b/B guides, use geeks are far to lazy to hit that shift key over, and my pinky was just too lazy (if it makes you feel better, I winced when I typed it, but thought, nah, there is noone that pedantic... oh well, thsi is slashdot!)
        • yeah, sorry about that but it was the experience with the BT sales person that really made me flip. As others have pointed out I was wrong about the k thing, duh! Regardless, bits and bytes, its important.

    • Hmm. The only machine I've used GEM on had 4Mb of RAM. An Atari ST, which was a damn site nicer to program on than the PC's of the same era.

  • From his "Personal stuff" page:

    "I'm a complex guy, and thus possess a substantial amount of personal information. The real question is whether you want to browse through it all."

    He's also got a version control system named SVS, for Shane Versioning System. I'm surprised he left the name OpenGEM alone, without morphing it into ShaneGEM or something.
    • Only on Slashdot does some dickweed nitpick every aspect of another gent's webpage... The Slashdot Pasttime! What is weird about the guy having a lot of personal files? Are you saying he's a pompous ass because he's got a lot of photos and other personal files? FOR SHAME!
      • > Are you saying he's a pompous ass because he's got a lot of photos and other personal files?

        Yes, and because of everything else I said. That's exactly what I'm saying, indeed.
  • It's called Windows, actively developed by Microsoft. Selling like HotCakes if Hotcakes had crack in them.

  • Meh. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stonecypher ( 118140 ) <stonecypher&gmail,com> on Thursday July 28, 2005 @11:56PM (#13192441) Homepage Journal
    Contiki [www.sics.se] does more in about 30k of ram.

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