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Weapons of War Now Include Lightning Guns 665

An anonymous reader writes "The Washington Post is running a lengthy article today about Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems, an Indiana-based company that says its developed a nonlethal weapon that shoots lightning bolts. This article is an in-depth look at a company that's stirred up some controversy on Slashdot in the past. From the article: 'Lightning guns, heat rays, weapons that can make you hear the voice of God. This is what happens when the war on terror meets the entrepreneurial spirit.'"
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Weapons of War Now Include Lightning Guns

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  • Aiming accuracy... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by magicsquid ( 85985 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:51PM (#13423532) Homepage
    I wonder how good the accuracy is. If a "bad" guy and a "good" guy are in close combat how do they make sure that the bolt strikes the "bad" guy and is not instead attracted to the metal gun being held by the "good" guy?

    It seems to me that lightning wouldn't necessarily go where you want it to, but instead would go where it wants to...
    • Accuracy = use the right weapon for the particular target. Obviously, not all weapons are viable on all targets. If they were, Bahgdad would be a smooth, glassy, parking lot by now.
      • You forgot (Score:4, Funny)

        by DaveAtFraud ( 460127 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @11:07PM (#13424190) Homepage Journal
        Said parking lot would also be self-lighting (at least for several years).

        Time to burn some mod points. I wonder how low the liberal whiners here can mod me down.

        S I G H.
    • by nasor ( 690345 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:20PM (#13423673)
      This has been around for a while. These "electricity shooting" weapons usually use ultra-violet lasers to ionize a column of air to the target, which acts as a conducting pathway for the electricity. So yes, you can actually aim it with some degree of accuracy.
      • by MacDork ( 560499 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @10:43PM (#13424051) Journal
        So yes, you can actually aim it with some degree of accuracy.

        Some degree of accuracy eh? :-D Reading the article, I find the guy manages to inadvertently zap himself with a lightning gun that has a useful range of about four feet. If he's dead set on using electricity, a projectile that releases an electric charge on impact sounds like a better idea to me. But hey, it only cost the US taxpayer a million bucks or so to find out lightning sucks as a weapon. IMHO that ranks right up there with the cow fart studies.

        • FYI (Score:3, Informative)

          ...a projectile that releases an electric charge on impact sounds like a better idea to me

          I recently read somewhere about one of a few such products currently in development (sorry, can't give you links, I'm on my handheld right now. I bet you'd see it on defensetech.org though). It seemed like a really neat idea - take the shot out of a shotgun cartridge and put a piezoelectric generator in it. The force of the impact itself generates the electricity which is then discharged via contact into the vic

      • Bring it on (Score:3, Funny)

        by HermanAB ( 661181 )
        That has something to be said for my reflective tinfoil hat...
      • The guy's website is at www.xtremeads.com [xtremeads.com].
        There is a video there with a shot of the suitcase that shoots lightning [xtremeads.com] talked about in the article.
        If you look around the rest of the site, you'll basically just see artist's [xtremeads.com] drawings [xtremeads.com] of their ideas [xtremeads.com].
    • by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:22PM (#13423680)
      Well, gee, since it's so "nonlethal," why not just strike everybody down and figure it out later?

      People advertise nonlethal weapons as safer, compared to lethal weapons. I'll believe that argument when patrol cops give up their guns in favor of nonlethal alternatives. In practice, what happens is people get gassed or shocked in circumstances that previously would have called for deployment of a megaphone or fire hose.

      • by joelanders ( 743036 ) <joelanders42@nospAm.gmail.com> on Sunday August 28, 2005 @10:23PM (#13423960)
        People advertise nonlethal weapons as safer, compared to lethal weapons.
        no comment necessary...
      • by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Monday August 29, 2005 @01:26AM (#13424867)
        Do you have any idea how much water pressure a fire hose gives off? Fire hoses are not just oversized garden hoses, they have the range and power to rival most small caliber handguns. (Have you ever seen or heard of a single man holding, controlling and aiming a single fire hose?) At close range, you could EASILY kill someone with a fire hose (if not from drowning, then from the tearing of the skin and subsequent bleeding that follows.)

        As for patrol cops handing in guns in exchange for non-lethal/less-lethan alternatives, that'll happen when gun/weapon makers create an multipurpose weapon to suit their needs. Tasers are too short ranged, useless against armored targets and can range from useless against enraged subjects to potentially lethal if used against someone with a weak heart. Pepper spray/guns suffer from the same problem, poor accuracy over long ranges, useless against gas masks and ineffective/potentially lethal depending on subject. Sound and laser-based weapons are too experimental to be fielded. Beanbag guns can only really be used if the target is not behind cover, have seriously varying effects on a case-by-case situation and can cause internal damage if too many shots in the same general area.

        It isn't that police don't want less lethal weaponery, its simply a matter of the current stage is too experimental. (Pepper spray is useless if I'm charging you with a knife in a small room. A taser won't work if I'm trying to run you over. Most people who work out at the gym will be able to take a couple beanbag hits and will be able to attack. So on and so on.)

    • by Bonhamme Richard ( 856034 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:31PM (#13423734)
      The military has a few "nonlethal" weapons in use already, mostly rubber bullets/foam tipped bullets. The only place I've ever actually heard of them being used is in roit or crowd control situations. If you're trying to give out food at an aid station in Afganistan, and suddenly the crowd turns ugly, opening fire with nonletahl rounds restores order without causing loss of life.

      The lightning gun's lack of accuracy could actually be an aid in that sort of situation. It becomes a sort of non lethal shotgun, stopping several people each time it's fired. The article said that they had a general ability to aim it (based on ionizing air in a certain direction.) As long as it shocks the roiting crowd instead of the other soilders, this sort of weapon can but used for crowd control.

    • by quarkscat ( 697644 ) on Monday August 29, 2005 @09:19AM (#13426632)
      Tesla's patent has expired.
  • which God? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dankelley ( 573611 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:52PM (#13423537)
    Mine, or the one worshipped by evil people?
  • UT2004 (Score:5, Funny)

    by GXFragger ( 758649 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:53PM (#13423541)
    Unreal Tournament 2004 is now becoming not so unreal, apparently.
  • Non-Lethal? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Forthan Red ( 820542 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:53PM (#13423542)
    Supposedly "safe" Taser guns can kill people, and we're supposed to believe that they've perfected a non-lethal lightening bolt?
    • Re:Non-Lethal? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sumdumass ( 711423 )
      An d the alternative is to either kill everyone or let them violate whatever sanction held dear.

      I would guess that if a non-lethal weapon is non-leathal 90% of the possible scenarios, It would be ok to use it as a non lethal weapon.

      If a woman is being raped and beat then reaches for a stun gun wich ends up killing here attacker instead of imobilising him, is that all that bad? I won't lose and sleep over it.
  • Certainly (Score:5, Funny)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:55PM (#13423556) Homepage Journal
    This is what happens when the war on terror meets the entrepreneurial spirit.

    Because we all know how effective giant lightning bolts are at seeking out a terrorist in a populated urban area...
    • It may be effective if all you have is a large group of 'terrorists', isolated from anyone else. Bringing a lightning bolt down on a training camp out in the desert might be just the thing. Or on a missile battery isolated from anyone else. 'Terrorists' are not the only threat out there.
  • Well... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sottilde ( 836088 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:56PM (#13423562)
    id Software has done it again... bringing the gunz to the REAL front!

    U.S.A! U.S.A!
  • When are we getting the sonic tanks from Dune? ;)
  • Outstanding! Oooyah!
  • BIG Fun (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cash202 ( 854642 ) <cash202@gmail.com> on Sunday August 28, 2005 @08:58PM (#13423573)
    Mmmm, nonlethal game of lightning tag.

    I smell a new type of X-Games Competition.

  • "dazzler" laser (Score:4, Interesting)

    by b0lt ( 729408 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:01PM (#13423586)
    The article mentions a "dazzler" laser which is designed to blind enemy combatants. Isn't this illegal under the Geneva Convention? I seem to recall a ban on weapons that blinded people.
    • Re:"dazzler" laser (Score:4, Informative)

      by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:05PM (#13423605) Journal
      It only outlaws lasers explicitly designed to damage sight or cause permanent blindness.

      Temporary blinding.. while it's questionable if such is very possible without risk of permanant injury, isn't forbidden.
  • Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:02PM (#13423589) Journal
    Nice Tesla Coil there. Now stop wasting my tax money on this BS.

    As far as I can tell this guy just has some lasers and Tesla coils and "artist's renderings" of terrorists being struck down by sparks.

    There's a fundamental problem yet to be addressed. It's extremely difficult to incapacitate someone without risking their life.

    His vision of "Zapping the hostages with the kidnappers and sorting it out later" is scary!

    That's the real risk of less-lethal weapons, they lend themselves to overuse.

    • Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)

      by demachina ( 71715 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @10:02PM (#13423879)
      When you hear the term "non-lethal" next to "weapon" they may be claiming its to fight terrorism because its an easy way to get the U.S. government to throw money your way, but its more likely its going end up actually used for crowd control. You know all of those annoying protests at WTO and G-8 summits.

      That was clearly what the DOD's Humvee mounted heat ray technology was for.

      Its one of the more disturbing sides of the U.S. government these days, they seem to be spending way to much time thinking about, and spending money, on how to suppress dissent, institute martial law and protect themselves from their own unhappy population.
  • I see (Score:5, Funny)

    by Guy LeDouche ( 713304 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:03PM (#13423595)
    weapons that can make you hear the voice of God

    I demand to know who used this on our fearless leader, Mr. Bush.
  • by StarvingSE ( 875139 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:04PM (#13423599)
    The war on terror has now turned to Quake 3 deathmatch!!!!!!!!!!!

    I was thinking about joining the army. I mean, its just like fps, but with better graphics. But what if I get lag out there??? I'm dead!!! I heard there isn't even respawn points in RL!" -fps-doug
  • by rune2 ( 547599 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:05PM (#13423604) Homepage
    are the frickin' sharks?!
  • by blankoboy ( 719577 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:11PM (#13423635)
    I can't believe it hasn't been said yet. Shame on you all. =) /obscure?
  • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:11PM (#13423639) Homepage
    The lead engineer was named Zeus?
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:14PM (#13423647) Homepage
    Is any else as shocked as I am to hear this?
  • Prior Art (Score:5, Funny)

    by hobotron ( 891379 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:17PM (#13423657)

    Embedded journalists have been trying to report that soldiers have been using IDDQD and IDKFA since April 2004, The Pentagon alleges that if the terrorists ever found out these codes it would "ruin the game", and has subsequently been stripping press reports of this information.
  • by Isldeur ( 125133 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:21PM (#13423678)

    Do we really need more weapons of war? I mean, in all seriousness. Doesn't the US spend as much on the military as most other nations' GNP combined? Whom are we supposed to be fighting?
    • Re:Weapons of war. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by prisoner-of-enigma ( 535770 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:40PM (#13423778) Homepage
      Whom are we supposed to be fighting?

      While I can appreciate a noble desire by people to wonder why weapons are needed, you do need to understand that weapons exist both as a means to inflict force as well as a means to psychologically affect a potential enemy.

      The U.S and (former) U.S.S.R. nuclear arsenals are a perfect example of this idea. If only one country had possessed such a devastating arsenal, it could use it with impunity, thus constituting a an effective deterrence against any other party initiating hostilities. With both parties having the same weaponry, neither side can start anything without a devastating reprisal and are thus mutually deterred.

      So, you see, the weapons themselves don't have to actually be used in order to be effective. The very fact that they could be used can deter someone who is considering attacking us or our international interests. Indeed, the lack of such weapons can actually encourage belligerent activity against us and our interests since any such belligerent party might feel they could "get away with it."

      Finally, the more effectively our weaponry is, the less likely we'll ever need to use it. For that reason if no other, we should be glad research in these areas is continuing. The fact that this "lightning gun" is intended to be non-lethal is another great idea. It would alway be preferrable to "stun" a target than exercise lethal force. A stunned person will live if you make a mistake. Non-lethal weaponry, if perfected, could eventually eliminate the very concept of civilian casualties. And that is a very good thing to have in your arsenal no matter which "side" you are on.

  • This is what happens when you ignore Nikola Tesla. I know this because I've played Command and Conquer.
  • Terrorists, pfft (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Devar ( 312672 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:27PM (#13423716) Homepage Journal
    There are designed to be used on you.
  • Cool... (Score:3, Funny)

    by RiffRafff ( 234408 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:32PM (#13423738) Homepage
    ...still rather have a BFG, though.

  • by isny ( 681711 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:33PM (#13423743) Homepage
    "And for the last time, stop playing with yourself!" "It is God."
  • by centipetalforce ( 793178 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:45PM (#13423798)
    Months ago I was watching some show about nonlethal weapons inventors and I thought about how cool they were. Then I thought about the situations they'd be used in. Time and time again police and national guardsmen abuse nonlethal weapons all over the world to suppress peaceful demonstrations. In future protests, expect to see sonic weapons, foam, all sorts of things aimed at crowds.

    Now where we do really need nonlethal weapons is in Iraq, where children under the age of fifteen commonly shoot at our guys there. Our guys have nothing else to defend themselves with but guns, and I've heard about how demoralizing it can be for our troops to be forced to kill children (let alone the moral issues, and the fact that we're creating new "insurgents" by killing family members). And it's not like our military does not have nonlethal weapons, it just won't arm our guys with them for the obvious lunkhead reasons.
    Rest assured these high tech toys will not be used on armed combatants, but on peaceful protesters.
    • by prisoner-of-enigma ( 535770 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:54PM (#13423842) Homepage
      Rest assured these high tech toys will not be used on armed combatants, but on peaceful protesters.

      Yeah, those G8 protesters out there burning cars, smashing storefronts, and generally destroying everything in sight are just...so...peaceful, aren't they?

      There was a time when a protest was something arranged around non-violent confrontation. Today, protests are just another excuse for hooligans to do what they do best: destroy things for the fun of it.

      Ghandi had it right: if you want an effective protest, violence is the last thing you should encourage or tolerate. It gives your opponents all the ammunition they need to increase the level of control, force, and invasiveness on those who are protesting. These freaks who are out there slinging rocks and Molotov cocktails are not protesters, they're thugs.
      • by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Monday August 29, 2005 @02:30AM (#13425136)
        These freaks who are out there slinging rocks and Molotov cocktails are not protesters, they're thugs.

        those thugs are "agent provocateurs" deliberately planted to give the authorities the opportunity to claim that the protest isn't peacefull. What do think the real fuss is about over that server seizure then??? the servers were hosting photos of undercover policemen... evidence of the agent provocatuer policy [reclaimthemedia.org]

        Then, on Oct. 1, the FBI paid a visit to an Indymedia representative in Seattle on behalf of the Swiss government. The Swiss were upset that IMC had published pictures of undercover agents posing as anti-globalization protesters.
        • Bullshit (Score:3, Informative)

          by Loundry ( 4143 )
          those thugs are "agent provocateurs" deliberately planted

          You mean *some* of those thugs are agent provocateurs. Governments are certainly not clean in this regard -- they want an excuse to disperse an unruly and highly-disliked crowd of punks as quickly as possible. Suppose the rationale is to give the cops "reason" to use brute force before something "worse" happens? Given how much I dislike anarchist punk kids, I kind of sympathize with it. Given how much I dislike right-wing pseudo-military abusive c
  • by Ranger ( 1783 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @09:46PM (#13423804) Homepage
    Robert McClain learned that chainmail is no match for a Taser. He tried to go medieval on Michigan cops. [thesmokinggun.com] While holed up in his basement armed with a large mallet he uttered: "I'm gonna crush your fucking skulls, I have a thousand years of power."
  • by TechnoGrl ( 322690 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @10:08PM (#13423909)
    This reminds me SOOO much of the UV Nitrogen stun laser cum "phaser" gun that was all in vogue 18 months ago.... what a load of crap.

    In my never too humble opinion what's hapenning is that some fast talking BS artist spins a tale to tech to a defense buddy/contact/flak who's more knowledgable about ProSprorts than science....and gets a million or so research grant to pursue the idea. Then of course a small chunk of the grant goes out to the spin machine flaks like the Wash Post (and eventually end up) here.

    By te time the idea is proven to be BS (which any 2nd year college physics student could likely have told you ) then everything is covered up and forgotten so there are no embarrassing questions about what MORON allocated the funding in the first place.

    Moller and his fantastic flying cars has been pulling that stunt on the government every 15 years and those f-tards never learn.

    Am I ranting again?....
    Oops..

    One more thing - the original artical goes on to say that the company's big achievement to date is selling scay green laser pointers to the military as a defense weapon for $1100 a pop! Oh well...at least it keeps these a-holes out from selling junk bonds to grandmothers.

    Am I ranting again?
  • by surfcow ( 169572 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @10:10PM (#13423917) Homepage
    "... weapons that can make you hear the voice of God."

    Hmm. I think entirely too many people hear the voice of god already. That's largely why we think we need weapons.

    =brian
  • by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Sunday August 28, 2005 @11:55PM (#13424455) Homepage
    weapons that can make you hear the voice of God.


    Isn't "hearing the voice of God" one of the primary causes of terrorist acts? It's hard to imagine the September 11th hijackers took the job because of the good dental plan...

  • Some thoughts... (Score:4, Informative)

    by jlseagull ( 106472 ) on Monday August 29, 2005 @12:58AM (#13424753) Homepage
    Regarding these lightning guns and dazzlers, there's a good reason that nonlethal weapons exist, at least in the TSA's case. I've heard of a study done by the TSA that in a hijacking situation, it was judged to be quite traumatic for the passengers to see an air marshal rip out an attacker's throat, break his neck, or gouge out his eyes. Those are pretty much the exact words my friend quoted from the study.

    Instead, it was judged to be easier on the passengers for the air marshal to point a blinking light at the guy and then bonk him nicely over the head while he's blinded.

    This has the potential to be a big market.
  • by haxor.dk ( 463614 ) on Monday August 29, 2005 @02:34AM (#13425158) Homepage
    Anybody up for a round of Red Alert?
  • by Llywelyn ( 531070 ) on Monday August 29, 2005 @06:23AM (#13425908) Homepage
    When a bullet can arrange a face-to-face introduction?

    (sorry, sorry, couldn't resist)

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