DirectNIC Crisis Manager Braves the Chaos of New Orleans 911
Aleks Clark writes "The Interdictor, a DirectNIC crisis manager, is currently braving the madness of post-Katrina New Orleans. Server rescues, OC4 repairs and live video and audio feeds abound as he and his crew battle the odds with what seems like the entire internet at his back. 1700+ People are tracking his blog, and IRC channels are full to capacity."
All I gotta say is... (Score:5, Insightful)
interdictor cutomized Google Map... (Score:5, Informative)
interdictor map [100free.com].
I've only got a little on there now, but will add more (like other flood lines, etc) if people send me email with coordinates to gmap AT danREMOVEshockley.com
I've got a simple click-to-find-coordinates map at:
Test Map Coords [100free.com]
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:3, Insightful)
They are now saying there is rampant lawlessness even inside the shelters. Rapes, beatings, etc. Do they think this will help their plight? Reminds me of the same behaviour that occured after the Rodney King inspired riots in the early nineties.
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Looting for food and water, maybe beating somebody up that went wacko all of a sudden (posing a risk for you and the people around), maybe I can see, but what justification can you give for, "Whoops! All hell is breaking loose, water's everywhere, I gots to get my freak on!"
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:4, Interesting)
People are going to act badly in those sort of circumstances. Hell, a shitload of people are acting badly in far milder ones - here in Baton Rouge people with food, water, power, and vehicles are beating the shit out of each other over cutting in line for gas. People are so scared of all the brown criminals from NO coming here that the town was practically paralyzed by rumors (non-factual) of rioting and looting at the local mall.
No, NO is not a healthy place to be right now. Poeople aren't at thier best. But honestly, a lot of people here on slashdot wouldn't do any better in the same circumstances. Get them out of there, get some food and water, clothes, basic hygiene in place and you'll see a marked improvment in character and behavior. It sure would be nice if everyone there had come together and supported each other until outside help could come. But human nature has it's dark side and getting on your own high horse about it is just hypocritical.
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:4, Interesting)
I think there are FAR more major problems than that going on down there. People are dying due to being stuck where they are without neccessities-- that's the major issue. I've not lost perspective on this, please don't think that.
People are going to act badly in those sort of circumstances. Hell, a shitload of people are acting badly in far milder ones - here in Baton Rouge people with food, water, power, and vehicles are beating the shit out of each other over cutting in line for gas. People are so scared of all the brown criminals from NO coming here that the town was practically paralyzed by rumors (non-factual) of rioting and looting at the local mall.
See, and that's fucked up. I can completely agree with you-- people are almost guaranteed to act badly in situations like these. But, I can still recognize that it's not right, no matter what the situation. Sure, there's going to be a great deal of situational morality-- people do what they have to so they can survive. You'll never catch me judging people for breaking through a storefront for essentials when there's a lack of food like there is; however, you will find me angry at people raping one another, or anyone else who takes the opportunity to "get it for themselves", like grabbing a DVD player while in Wal-Mart getting food.
No, NO is not a healthy place to be right now. Poeople aren't at thier best. But honestly, a lot of people here on slashdot wouldn't do any better in the same circumstances. Get them out of there, get some food and water, clothes, basic hygiene in place and you'll see a marked improvment in character and behavior. It sure would be nice if everyone there had come together and supported each other until outside help could come. But human nature has it's dark side and getting on your own high horse about it is just hypocritical.
You didn't make a differentiation in who was covered by your initial statement. I specifically focused on rape because it's not essntial to live. Senseless shit is what I'm incensed about. People are out there-- theft of food, water, etc will undoubtedly be looked over, but there's no excuse for just going ape-shit when a disaster strikes.
It's not hypocritical at all to condemn senseless acts of violence, even in a disaster situation, where it's almost expected that people will go nuts. My main point is that in times like this, it's perfectly OK to still maintain standards of decency, but be able to survive. I don't care what's going on, it's not acceptable to corner someone with a weapon, and force yourself upon them.
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course you don't show compassion toward that person, considered in isolation.
And yet I have been reading many characterizations of this hurricane's victims as being all looters and rapists, who deserve no sympathy and who should be fired on from helicopters. As if everyone in the city had all gathered in the Superdome and voted for the raping to begin.
Some percentage of the population can't behave themselves even when there is rule of law. Eventually they end up in jail.
An additional percentage of the population will behave, because they don't want to go to jail. When anarchy breaks out, the rule of law is gone, and the cops have no gasoline, bullets, or effective authority, these are the people who run around raping and looting and causing trouble. If they were members of the first group they'd be in jail and you wouldn't see them. When the cops are able to do their jobs, they behave. You meet some of them every day and don't realize it.
Don't be tempted to characterize the entire population by the actions of this group when order breaks down. The media isn't helping, and is conflating them with the "good people" who lift items like toothpaste and bottled water, if they can justify taking it enough to satisfy their consciences. From a helicopter they all look the same.
But the latent troublemakers are just reflecting a facet of human nature- these people exist in all cultures. We saw the same thing happen in Baghdad two years ago, remember? Do you recall the puzzlement? Everyone wondering why are the Iraqis destroying their own country? Not all of them were- the ones that did were the ones that we noticed. Entire populations don't just all just get together and decide to misbehave. You, as an observer, need to be mindful of your own tendency to generalize. Especially now.
Re:Point taken... (Score:4, Interesting)
This is about terror of scary brown people. I've been to New Orleans, and I know what the attitude towards the poor blacks of NOLA is.
Tens of thousands of people are dying in the street because whites are obsessing about the dozens committing psychopathic crimes. They're AFRAID of the people, don't want to go into the town, and don't want the people to come to THEIR towns.
Every incident of black crime is being amplified and fed back into the fear to postdatedly justify the lack of response for the calls for help.
Obsession about the few psychos to the exclusion of all others is the hallmark of network news, and they are now feeding their fear and bias back into the stew of white fear.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you on acid? You expect a major American city to just completely empty out? Even with an organized evacuation it's difficult.
But of course, there was no organized evacuation. No buses, nothing. People were just told to leave on their own. Some people don't own cars. Or gasoline. They live paycheck to paycheck. Lots of these people rely on government checks that arrive on the first of the month. At the end of the month, they're ALWAYS broke. Some people are disabled and in wheelchairs, or care for people in wheelchairs. Are you going to talk trash about the hospital patients wading through the water with backless hospital gowns? Or the woman who stayed to take care of her mother, who was dependent on dialysis? What if, God forbid, Terri Schiavo had been there? Surely you could find some compassion for her.
When you're raised in a hurricane area, you're indoctrinated EVERYWHERE basic Civil Defense survival especially in the case of a hurricane. That includes stocking at least 2 weeks food.
Lot of good that 2 weeks of food does you when you're trapped in your attic and the water's coming in. By then the food's either soaked in crud or floated away.
I don't know what is happening there right now
that much is obvious
but I do know that culture and the sense of entitlement the most raucous lot of the roit bunch are and they have proven that then need to be taken out because civil society doesn't want them.
I love how all the "real" Americans among us are the first to turn on their less fortunate countrymen when a disaster strikes.
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:4, Interesting)
What really struck me is how many of the people of New Orleans decided to steal from each other instead of help each other. It's really sad to see people busy stealing watches, camcorders and cadilacs while people are dying around them.
Equally tragic was the response of especially the Army and Air Force - they did not deploy nearly fast enough. Just the presence of troops would have prevented a lot of the carnage.
I love how all the "real" Americans among us are the first to turn on their less fortunate countrymen when a disaster strikes.
I don't think this is the case at all. I think people are sickened by victims of a disaster turning on each other and stealing cars, jewelry, electronics and other luxury items while people are dying that could be as easily saved from the water as the five rolexes they grabbed. One thing is certain: we as a nation need to re-think how we deal with disasters and focus on 1) making sure everyone has food shelter and security 2) helping get people relocated quickly so they can be reunited with their families and get on with the business of living and 3) dealing with those who would rather steal luxury items rather than help their fellow man appropriately.
Who cares about money and luxuries when people are literally dying around you?
Re:All I gotta say is... (Score:5, Insightful)
These people are, for the most part, poor folks who had no means to escape town last Sunday when the warning went out. No car. No money to put themselves up in a motel outside of town. The rich white people got the hell out, leaving the poor behind to drown.
Look at the news reports. Most of the faces are black and poor. Instead of being able to escape this shitstorm, they had to resort to being crammed into the Superdome, enduring overflowing stinking toilets, stifling heat, and the goddamn roof ripping off during one of the worst hurricanes this country has ever seen. These people are tired, scared, recently homeless, and very desperate. I'm sure they'd rather be anyplace but the festering bowl of sewage that New Orleans has become in the last couple of days.
Don't you dare make the inference that all 50,000+ of these people are merely stubborn stalwarts or hooligans bent on raising a ruckus now that the rule of law has broken down. While I condemn the reported rapes and other assorted outbreaks of lawlessness (reports of which I'm sure are being overhyped as usual by a racist mainstream media), most of these people are just desperately poor people who are scared at the prospect of what will happen to them in the next 24-48 hours. Put your critical thinking cap on, buddy, it's not like everyone there has turned into a murderous rapist. If you believe that, you're as racist as those peddling that "information."
Seems trivial... (Score:5, Insightful)
Tim
Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:4, Insightful)
It was interesting to see in that blog that what I've heard elsewhere is confirmed: Police are doing much of the looting.
Its unfortunate that government sweeps in during disasters and starts making mandates that make things worse. Like prohibitions against price "gauging". What, they htink things get cheaper when the infrastructure is destroyed?
Gauging actually helps-- it brings in more supply to service that demand, and ultimately prices go down FASTER when the free market is allowed.
Here's an economists take on the issue:
Price Gauging saves lives: http://www.mises.org/story/1593 [mises.org]
And another: http://www.lewrockwell.com/akers/akers16.html [lewrockwell.com]
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, you described the economic side of price gouging - fair enough. Now, IN THE MEANTIME, whilst the supplies are being shipped in, nobody can pay for their foodstuffs. They die. Congratulations.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Insightful)
A hurricane comes through. Houses are destroyed. People come in to rebuild knowing that they will get rich. Governor sets a price cap. Builders know that they can go elsewhere and get better profits with less hastle, so they leave.
The people who come into an area to rebuild need an economic incentive. If you want to remove that incentive, fine. But then you have to mandate that people rebuild regardless of their wishes.
Unless you are going to have government contracts to rebuild things, you can't remove free market incentives.
Now, things like food, clothing, tents should be provided, free of charge, by the government. No if's ands or buts. We spend millions to provide MREs to Africa/Asia; spending billions on our own people shouldn't be a problem.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know that gouging is necessary to ensure a healthy profit and encourage rebuilding. I'm quite sure "getting rich" instantly is not necessary for construction projects to be worthwhile.
But I must emphasize your 1000x underestimation of US aid to Africa. Please note that we spend Billions [washingtonpost.com] in Africa (with a 'B') just to fight AIDS and that's not enough [uneca.org]!: There remains today a huge gap between the estimated annual needs of $3-4 billion for HIV/AIDS and current annual expenditures.
Bush has refused to endorse Blair's plan to double aid to Africa from rich nations to $25 billion annually now and $50 billion each year starting in 2015.
The White House has not decided how much more direct assistance to Africa it will offer at the G8 summit. The United States provides $3.2 billion in aid and much more through Bush's AIDS program, which calls for $3 billion a year to be spent combating the deadly disease, of which about 80 percent is expected to go to Africa. About half of the $5 billion Bush has promised from the Millennium Fund, which provides financial assistance to governments that commit to democratic and economic reforms, will go to Africa.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, let's be clear about this, because both your and the blog's statements are pretty inflammatory and not accurate.
In a declared emergency, the police are allowed and in fact in some cases even required to commandeer what they see fit to maintain order and public safety. That does include guns and food. This is not "looting". The store owners are all reimbursed by the city and state later.
This happens all the time, but the one instance I can remember that was pretty heavily publicized was during that bank robbery and shootout in Los Angeles a while back, where the police were so outgunned that they went to a gun store during the gunfight and picked it clean. This is part of their duty; they have the authority and responsibility to commandeer items required to do their job during a public emergency.
It's really no different than a firefighter breaking somebody's door down during a fire. I mean, are they breaking and entering? Do you have them arrested for tresspassing? Obviously not - they're doing what they need to do to get the job done, and they're legally allowed to do it.
I think it's actually pretty tasteless for this guy to write something like "who knows what their real motives are?"... I mean, these are the guys out there in the direct line of fire trying to protect and feed a whole lot of innocent people who haven't eaten or drunk anything in 3 or 4 days. They're getting shot at (and hit) by street thugs for no reason, and they're doing their best to restore order in a clear vacuum of leadership and without nearly enough manpower.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:4, Insightful)
I do appreciate the need for police to commandeer supplies, food, weapons, ammo,etc.
But what does the cop 2/3 rds down the page need with a stack of DVDs? Thats a picture of police looting, plain and simple, sucks but cops are people too, they are fallable too, trying to pretend it doesn't happen or sweep it under the rug because of the risks cops make will do nothing to keep cops from looting in the future.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Informative)
More likely, a lot of both. What ppl seem to be forgetting here, is that NO police department about 5 years ago, was considered the most corrupt in the nation. In fact, during a federal probe of the city, they had to call an early end to it, because they had to stop a murder. Apparently the chief of police (or possibly an assistant chief) had ordered a hit on somebody for not paying up.
That does not mean that all are corrupt there. But no doubt there are a lot that are.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Informative)
Not true. I guess it makes for a more dramatic story if they leave out the facts. Simple fact is, if the money had not been diverted, the money would of been spent on a project which would still not have been completed and the city would have still be lost. But, telling half truths on the news makes for a much better story. I heard this from an Army Corps of Engineers representative on the news this morning. According to him, even if they had started the project in 2002, the project probably would not have been completed until at least 2008. This is 2005, last I checked, which means the project probably wouldn't of started until about a year ago, which means we would of flushed that money with the rest of the city.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Insightful)
And the project to upgrade the levys has been going since 1965! This is not the federal governments fault. If the dam levy is so important to people in New Orleans, have them come up with the money to fix it themselves!
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Informative)
"Also that June, with the 2004 hurricane season starting, the Corps' project manager Al Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:"
"The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of the settlement," he said. "The problem that we have isn't that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can't raise them."
"The panel authorized that money, and on July 1, 2004, it had to pony up another $250,000 when it learned that stretches of the levee in Metairie had sunk by four feet. The agency had to pay for the work with higher property taxes. The levee board noted in October 2004 that the feds were also now not paying for a hoped-for $15 million project to better shore up the banks of Lake Pontchartrain."
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Interesting)
Heartless bastard reporting for duty.
New Orleans has been sinking into the swamp for years. The city is essentially a hole in the ground, surrounded by water. You know why the cemetaries have above ground caskets? They're 15 feet below sea level. The hole fills up with water as fast as they can dig it.
If we rebuild, it *will* happen again. And then what? We pay to have it rebuilt again? If the city was next to an active volcano, would you be saying we should rebuild it?
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:3, Insightful)
what magical land do you live in that has no natural disasters?
New Orleans is alive with unique culture and vast history. I'm sorry that you've never been there to experience it. Perhaps when it is rebuilt it is done right and will be able to withstand a major hurricane as well as any other city might.
Even if you don't appreciate cultur
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:4, Informative)
Colorado. Although the natural disaster here has been drought, and fire. You know what happened after that? People who want to build their houses in the woods can't get fire insurance.
And if their homes get burned down again, they shouldn't get federal money for that.
I do appreciate culture and history. When will be rebuild Pompeii?
The city is sinking into the swamp like a scene in a Monty Python skit and you want to build it up again.
Re:Police doing the looting...Government SNAFU (Score:5, Insightful)
"done right" would be to raise it from being under the sea level.. and would cost obscene amounts of money and not really have any point in it.
you think that's it's smart to build on a land that you _know_ is under the sea level and that you _know_ will face a major disaster easier than a town that's built 50km from it? you think that all places on earth are on the same risk level? that's just stupid. as stupid as taking unnecessary risks just to converse something you could converse at the NEW PLACE just as well. a community is not about the buildings or where the buildings are but about the people who live in them.
You're an idiot... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but the merchandise they have to buy to replace that merchandise does.
If a business can't make enough on the merchandise on their shelves to purchase replacements, they go out of business.
Price controls are counter-productive.
Re:Gouging, et al (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's pretend that I own a gas station with a 10,000 gallons of capacity in my underground tanks.
Decision time.
Option one:
I keep the price of my gas at $1.25 until I run out. I lose no money because that gas is already bought and paid for. At the bottom of my tank I find that I have raked in $12,500 - before paying any other expenses such as insurance, electricity, employee salaries and benefits, taxes and so on. Figuring my two cent/gallon profit I have earned $200 for myself.
But wait! I now need to replace 10,000 gallons of gas which will now cost me $25,000. Even assuming I had free utilities, labor and overhead my last storage tank fillup would only allow me to buy 5,000 gallons of gas. A couple more price hikes and I'll be out of business and nobody will be able to buy gas from me because I'll be closed.
Option two:
I jack the prices up to match what I expect my next delivery will cost so I can keep the tanks full and stay in business. Unfortunately, no matter what I charge I'll never make more than two cents/gallon profit - and that doesn't count all of the people who feel entitled to rip me off because I'm "gouging". Or don't come in and buy my fountain drinks and candy bars which is where 80% of my profits come from.
Yes, I could refrain from "gouging" but a quick failure of the business is a definite certainty.
Anti-gouging laws are one of the sillier things ever supplied by pandering politicians to stupid, demanding citizens. During normal times I can charge $15,000 for a generator and nobody will care because they'll go to Home Depot and buy one for $700. I would be in violation of the law but nobody would care because nobody wants to buy generators. But when the disaster strikes and everybody sells out of $700 generators (which are covered with dust because they sat on the shelves for 2 1/2 years because nobody thought that the designation "hurricane zone" actually meant something") and they see my stock of $15,000 generators (covered in dust because in 10 years nobody except the government wanted to buy my generators at a price so far above market) and I would be the greatest villian in the history of mankind, even if I -lowered- my price from $15,000 to $14,000.
Then you have a shortage. In times of normalcy 100 people are willing to buy a generator at $700 and everybody who wants one gets one. In time of natural disaster 50,000 people want a generator at $700 and 49,999 people are SOL because the first person in line buys all of them then sells all 100 out of the back of his truck for $2,000 each. Just because the government says that generators are only worth $700 doesn't mean that that is what they will be sold for.
No, but it is what prevents our economy from looking like Cuba (no food is available), Russia (no heating fuel is available) or Canada (9 months of waiting for a mammogram).
Re:Gouging, et al (Score:3, Insightful)
Supply and demand regulates things quite nicely if allowed to. Price controls prevent necessary corrections from taking place (eg: people should be
Re:Gouging, et al (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Gouging, et al (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not so foolish to forget that once upon a time, there were no such things as hospitals, housing plans, and fossil fuels. All of these, without exception, are luxuries, and in my opinion, not really worth regulating. They are merely the creations of society, people working together, and have generally benefited the most through those that embrace both personal altruism and and capitalism. When you get right down to it, if some massive horrible event or a
Brilliant! They keep the servers up ... (Score:5, Funny)
Data Link Source (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Data Link Source (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Data Link Source (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Data Link Source (Score:4, Interesting)
If only the federal, state, and local governments (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:3, Informative)
"..In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.
On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq,
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:3, Insightful)
That would be "no food or water" other than the tons and tons that are being flown and driven in every hour? I'm watching an interview right now with people sitting on top of an overpass eating military MREs (meals-ready-to-eat, as consumed in the thousands by our troops every day) that were just dropped off by a Navy chopper. Their response? That the food is "impossible to eat" since it's cold. Incredible.
No
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:5, Insightful)
1. These people, if they were able, probably DID put aside food and water. Which is now trapped under 9-20 feet of water in their houses.
2. There is only 1 road out of New orleans right now, and it's DANGEROUS to walk around. It's also on the opposite side of the most affected parts of the city. Put another way.. would you stroll through this with your kids? I'd wait for an escort with guns, thank you.
3. It is essential to get people moved out within 48-72 hours of a disaster. After that, the shock of loosing everything you own wears out and you go into survival mode.
3. These buses are driving right past thousands of people. Today was the first day that any serious evacuation was happening.
I'm not excusing the behaviour of NOLA people - but I understand it. There's looting, rape and murder happening - at the shelters. 60% of the NOLA police force quite because there's no command/control.
Most people got clean WATER for the first time since Monday. Even at the Superdome.
If I were FEMA last Tuesday:
1. Get school busses and get accessible people out now. Sort them somewhere else and reduce the need to ship in food. There should be armed escorts getting these people out. They should be swathing the city eastward so they can make effective use of the manpower instead of diluting it.
2. Evacuate all hospitals. Call in every ambulance you can and fly them out of Baton Rouge.
3. Air-drop food and water all over the city. Hell, have the coast guard drop food around as they're going to rescue survivors. It took 4 days to get those "tons and tons" into the city.
They didn't do that. Instead they:
1. Advised everyone to gather at central locations.. and instantly had supply issues because there's only one friggin road into town.
2. They thought they could fix a 500' levee of MOVING water in 24 hours. Huh?
3. The advised people to evacuate, but didn't coordinate escorts with the National Guard they had.
4. The police were overwhelmed. Many of them didn't even hear that they were under martial law! The city government left town leaving people with no knowledge of the city to coordinate the effort.
It's just totally wrong. Even an 8 year old could figure it out. If you've got limited access you're not going to be able to provide needed services.
FEMA gets billions of dollars to figure this out and completely botched it. Now they're complaining that people are shooting at them, which is wrong, but these people are mentally in survivor mode and if you don't have food or water then you don't matter.
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:5, Insightful)
It was not a perfect plan, obviously things could have been done much better. Before the hurricane, the city should have been more forceful in getting people to leave, as that was their best opportunity to get people out of the city. In hindsight there's always improvements to be made. Why don't we criticize the founders of the city for putting it in a place with restricted land access and a vulnerability to flooding?
It's rediculous to suggest that shooting at doctors and police during such an emergency is in any way justified. Just two years removed from being consumed in riots, Los Angeles somehow managed NOT to erupt in violence after the Northridge earthquake. I don't remember any shooting in San Diego when it was on fire last summer.
You deserve a good smack yourself for suggesting that these people who are risking their lives to try and help somehow deserve the violence they're facing.
Not enough people are helping, and those that do help are to blame for the problems? Absurd!
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:3, Insightful)
True, I rather suspect they where expecting to deal with a city nuked by terrorists or something of the like, but wouldn't the consequences be exactly what we are seeing in NO today? So WTF have the agencies been doing the past years?
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with FEMA preparedness and intervention goes a bit higher up.
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:3, Insightful)
News flash: Many, many people have young children. With 48 hours notice, walking is not an option.
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:5, Insightful)
Then, why, WHY have they chosen to give birth to, and raise kids while living below sea level in the path of recurring hurricanes that happen every year like clockwork? Every year? When was the last time a hurricane hit New Orleans? When was the last time ANYTHING like this happened?
But fuck, keep blaming the victims. Don't you feel better about yourself now? You're so smart. So good. Why, tragedy beyond your wildest expectations or control would NEVER happen to you.
People are DEAD. People are being RAPED. There are infants dying in the fucking streets and your focus is on blaming them, their parents. For all you know their parents DID stock up. But guess what? Their houses are now under nine feet of water. It is the government's JOB to maintain law and order, and they.. have.. FAILED.
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:3, Informative)
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:3, Insightful)
Recommendations to get out of town started days before that. Not that it should have mattered - the people that live their entire lives below sea level on a coast that is regularly scheduled to have hurricanes hit every year - they've got no excuses not to know that water flows downhill. But the voluntary evac announcement came before that, and the mandatory one (ignored by tens of thousands) still came in plenty of time for people to even walk
Re:If only the federal, state, and local governmen (Score:4, Insightful)
we are busy.. (Score:5, Informative)
we are on freenode in #interdictor
we have had a lot of support, thank you guys.
as far as directnic employees, we have made contact with most, we are still missing our entire accounting/HR department and many of our support people are MIA, we can only assume they got out.
as a company, the majority of our employees are currently homeless and are regrouping in Florida currently.
They are pretty hardcore there, not sure they can even get out now..
Remember, Interdictor (Score:3, Funny)
DONATE (Score:5, Informative)
AmeriCares:americares.org [americares.org]
RoommateClick.com [rc-katrina.com]Site offering a service for the New Orleans homeless, free of charge.
Baton Rouge Area Foundation(BRAF): 877.387.6126 or braf.org [braf.org]
Episcopal Relief & Development: 1-800-334-7626 or www.er-d.org [er-d.org]
United Methodist Committee on Relief: 1-800-554-8583 or gbgm-umc.org/umcor/emergency/hurricanes/2005 [gbgm-umc.org]
Salvation Army: 1-800-SAL-ARMY or www.salvationarmyusa.org [salvationarmyusa.org]
Catholic Charities: 1-800-919-9338 or www.catholiccharitiesusa.org [catholiccharitiesusa.org]
FEMA Charity tips: www.fema.gov/rrr/help2.shtm [fema.gov]
National Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster: www.nvoad.org [nvoad.org]
Louisiana Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals: www.la-spca.org [la-spca.org]
Operation Blessing: 1-800-436-6348 or www.ob.org [ob.org]
America's Second Harvest: 1-800-344-8070 or www.secondharvest.org [secondharvest.org]
Adventist Community Services: 1-800-381-7171 or www.adventist.communityservices.org [communityservices.org]
Christian Disaster Response: 1-941-956-5183 or 1-941-551-9554 or www.cdresponse.org/cdrhome.html [cdresponse.org]
Christian Reformed World Relief Committee: 1-800-848-5818 or www.crwrc.org [crwrc.org]
Church World Service: 1-800-297-1516 or www.churchworldservice.org [churchworldservice.org]
Convoy of Hope: 1-417-823-8998 or www.convoyofhope.org [convoyofhope.org]
Lutheran Disaster Response: 1-800-638-3522 or www.elca.org/disaster [elca.org]
Mennonite Disaster Service: 1-717-859-2210 or www.mds.mennonite.net [mennonite.net]
Nazarene Disaster Response: 1-888-256-5886 or www.nazarenedisasterresponse.org [nazarenedi...sponse.org]
Presbyterian Disaster Assistance: 1-800-872-3283 or www.pcusa.org/pda [pcusa.org]
Southern Baptist Convention - Disaster Relief: 1-800-462-8657, ext. 6440 or www.namb.net [namb.net]
Re:DONATE (Score:3, Interesting)
Ditto
I donated to Planned Parenthood [plannedparenthood.org]
The site has an explanation why condoms etc. is of some importance at this stage in the relief effort.
Just remember (Score:5, Insightful)
We may know it's complex, but unless we're intimitely involved we cannot accurately critique the relief efforts. It'd be comparable to Brian Williams analyzing the Linux kernel structure, or attempting to explain fighter tactics. Without first-hand knowledge, opinions on sophisticated matters are worthless. As slashdotters who regularly tear apart the mass media on technical inaccuracies, we all should know this well
IRC is NOT FULL (Score:5, Informative)
irc.freenode.net #interdictor
There are several sub-channels, such as #interdictor-chat for discussion/dialogue, #interdictor-scanner for a transcript of the radio scanner, etc.
We are also trying to track any news and information we can find to provide a summarized glimpse of the events as they happen. We're avoiding things that are already available through major news outlets, but any first-hand accounts, independent news sources, eye-witness information, international news, etc. (anything you couldn't find through, say, Fox News or MSNBC), please don't hesitate to help out.
Re-unification site (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Re-unification site (Score:4, Informative)
and more [craigslist.org].
great place to offer what you can
Re:Re-unification site (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Re-unification site (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.fullcircle.net/ [fullcircle.net]
Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:5, Insightful)
http://americablog.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/gu itar-710427.jpg [blogspot.com]
Pictures of bodies floating by are currently on the front page of the New York Times.
I posted the following quote on the previous article, with no conclusions, but it was modded down by people who dislike facts they disagree with. Additionally there's more information now and I am posting a link to the original article from editor and publisher:
"It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us." June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, in the Times-Picayune
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/artic le_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313 [editorandpublisher.com]
The above article also details what cuts were done by Bush to the SELA grants (for levees in New Orleans), which, by the way, were started and funded in 1995.
Additionally it appears that Louisiana should have been "high on the list of FEMA's biggest disaster mitigation grant program" but received nothing. Here's the article that states this: http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2004-09-2 8/cover_story2.html [bestofneworleans.com]
Now, as before, mod this post into oblivion so that you don't have to see Bush smiling and playing the guitar yesterday while bodies float around. I'm not sure what disgusts me more -- him doing that, or people closing their eyes to truth.
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:5, Insightful)
The article states that the reason Jefferson Parish' potentially high ranking was because it has a disproportionate number of "repetitive loss structures." Those are structures that have suffered flood damage two or more times over a 10-year period and the cost to repair the structure equals or exceeds 25 percent of its market value. This means that the issue being discussed in the article was general flooding due to rain and rising rivers, not levee breaks. Specifically they are talking about areas that have been flooded 2 or more times... which indicates a flood prone area (no surprise considering it's on the delta and below sea level in some places). My point is this article has nothing to do with the levee disaster.
At the end of the article we find this statement:
One possible reason for the non-selection, Rodrigue hypothesizes, was that early in 2004, FEMA auditors discovered that a private consultant hired by the state to administer FEMA money had misallocated funds in Slidell, Mandeville and other places in St. Tammany Parish. "I think it was connected to the fact that there was an ongoing investigation," Rodrigue says, although he noted that other parishes, including Jefferson, were audited by both FEMA and the state during the investigation and came out clean.
So the alleged city government corruption that we've heard about seems to have caused some problems w/ New Orleans getting money. Which it should have... if the local government was improperly allocating the funds we should not continue to give them money until the issue can be properly investigated and we can ensure they are using the funds correctly. Point is, the local government seemed to contribute to their own inability to get the funds... again this is irrelevent because the agument for them to get the money in first place had to do w/ basic flooding, not levee breaks.
The first article... is troubling. I read it and I'm left wondering if money would have solved the problem or not. What would the impact of the proposed projects truly have been? Do we know (considering they wanted to do a 4 year study to even determine how to protect New Orleans)? When would the projects have been completed? Does raising levees really solve the problem. I'm not a structural engineer but I would expect that the point of raising levees is to withstand higher water levels... not keep the levees from breaking Why did we know about this since the 1960s, and then only start acting when 6 people died in a flood in 1995? It is troubling though.
It makes me wonder about why we even let the federal government pay for this kind of stuff? I mean... why shouldn't we reduce federal taxes in order to allow states to raise their taxes as needed to fund the projects that are important to the states? People would have far more control over how the money was spent b/c it would be their local politicians they were dealing with and corruption may be held in check better than it is now because people would care if every dollar wasted was a dollar they paid out in taxes (as opposed to the current system where taxes are paid by all 50 states and dispersed out in projects to the various states).
Anyways, the articles are interesting, the picture is a lame argument (too easily forged, show me real dated proof, and a presidential schedule... and at best all it is says is the President is disengenous... doesn't mean he's doing a bad job).
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:3, Insightful)
Bus
Give him a break! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:3, Interesting)
The US people are the most complacent, ignorant sheep on the entire planet.
The US was isolationist until the second world war. What has the US done since then? Kill people in vietnam, kill people in korea, kill people in iraq, kill pe
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:4, Informative)
What has America done? Well, you're clearly not interested in the answer to this question, so I won't even mention the vast amounts of international aid given every year.
I'll just go directly to refute your points. The US people may be many things, but they are neither sheep nor complacent. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of complacent if you call Americans complacement.
Next, the US was by no means isolationist until the second world war. There was a first world war you know? We participated in that too. There was the Marshall plan after WW2 you know--I'd be interested in seeing what Europe today would be without that (you aren't in one of the countries rebuilt by the Marshall plan are you?).
Kill people in Vietnam? After being begged to go in by the Vietnamese... Killed people in Korea? Yes, the UN did go in Korea, you're right. Killed people in Iraq? Yes, the UN did go in Iraq, you're right. Killed people all over South american--of all your criticisms of American foreign policy this is probably the closest to having a point, thoguh i notice you don't blame the communists who funded insurgent rebel groups across the continet for causing bloodshead? Lead the world in prison population per capita? Figures please? Invent nuclear weapons? Yes, we did invent them, as did China, maybe the Germans, the Russians, and others. Your facts are simply wrong if you think the US had anything to do with Israel going nuclear--many of these records are now available, and much of the initial material was actually from Britain. US had no part in the early days of Israel.
The US almost destroyed the planet? Huh, Idon't remember that. You can just as well say the USSR almost destroyed the planet. Either way it's nonsenisical. What Big Ron did was force the USSR to quick economic collapse, that has seen countries frok Georgia to Ukraine to Poland find freedom in the ensuing decade.
Do I consider Survivor or American Idol to be accomplishments? Me personlaly, no? But given the number of people who want American TV worldwide, yes, I would have to. And besides, both of those TV shows derive from British shows, so your ideas are off their too.
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:3, Informative)
US involvement with broad international affairs was not really active until after WWII.
http://www.answers.com/topic/isolationism [answers.com]
The Marshall Plan was enacted BECAUSE europe was totally destroyed in the power play between Britain, the US, Germany and the Soviet Union. The US/Britain conquered Germany, divided up europe with the soviets, and then rebuilt the place. So what? Thats wha
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder why the world is full these little me's?
Having traveled the globe quite extensively, I can quite assure you, the world is indeed full of these little me's. Quite full.
Re:Bodies Float -- Bush Smiling, Playing Guitar (Score:4, Insightful)
suppose you had more information than the president by Tuesday morning about how bad it really all was. You have a crystal ball, right? Tuesday morning even the big news orgs were saying they didn't know what the fuck was happening out there. But by god, the president should have flown to New Orleans with a wetsuit and a shovel the moment the hurricane made landfall. Fuck me, how can we not see that.
How about this: "Hey Mr. FEMA director, why don't you get some planes with food and water ready. And we'll probably need some troops to maintain order." Sounds REASONABLE to me since that's EXACTLY what previous presidents have done in the exact same situation.
Or retards trying to rationalize blaming things like these on the fucking president of the united states. You are the quintessential bullshit merchant - "the president smirked and played guitar while bodies floated". Praise the lord and pass the ammo. Oh, and here's a picture to prove it. Holy fucking shit.
The President is the head of the federal government. The government's primary purpose is to maintain law and order. They FAILED. Bush failed.
Oh but wait! Are you saying this isn't Bush's fault? That ol' refrain? Why, that shore do bring back memories... of every OTHER massive fuckup we've seen under this president. 9/11? Not his fault! Couldn't see it coming! Massive Iraq resistance movement? Not his fault! Couldn't see it coming! Utter destruction of a major American city? Not his fault! Couldn't see it coming!
Partisan fuck. Bush is a dick. Bush is evil. Keep trying to prop up your god with your mindless Limbaugh Fu. Then do us all a favor and go chew on a shotgun.
Amoral Republicans must die.
More info can be found here (Score:4, Informative)
Is anyone else here concerned... (Score:5, Insightful)
What if we had a larger disaster on our hands such as price/rarity of gas skyrocketing to the point where farmed goods can no longer be delivered in quantity to major metropolitain areas?
As far as the crime situation goes, I can "understand" the looting and mugging, but why the raping? What racial/moral justification is there for that?
I dropped my donation off at the Red Cross for a lack of anything better to do in order to help. My respect goes out to the people risking their ass to get aid to that place.
Maybe I sound tin foil hattish but prior to this hurricane footage, all i was really expecting to see post-hurricane was generic flood photos and cheesy clips of people grabbing TVs from shop windows, not stories of cops siphoning gas from cars for their patrol vehicles and stealing ammo from stores before other people do while "rape gangs" walk around.
Truly a sad day for the human race. Maybe we'll look back on how *we* behaved when we look at other countries and remark about how "uncivilized" they are in the future.
Re:Is anyone else here concerned... (Score:3, Insightful)
You consider a Category 5 Hurricane with levees breaking in a city that is below sea level a "minor disaster"? What would you consider a medium sized disaster? Asteroid impact that takes out an entire city or WW3?
I am disapointed (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why I think we need to take a deeper look at ourselves:
1: We knew Katrina was coming...
2: We knew it was big...really huge and as such, the damage would be enormous...
3: We knew that some residents would not beat the time required to vacate Louisiana, may be because of complacency or the traffic mess...
4: We had numbers of those who had managed to escape. We even knew where they were to be found...
5: We even knew the geography of New Orleans, so we could know where to go and how to get there...
6: We knew much more via satellites...since we take ourselves as being the most advanced country on earth...!
But...
1: There was 100% chaos in Louisiana...
2: ...because we seem to have been caught off guard...!
3: Dead bodies lying on the streets?
4: Desperate people walking in s**t?
5: Looting as if this is Somalia?
6: Despite all this, we have politicians ranting up their rhetoric...heck...folks are dying...all you hear is "we are doing all we can..." And this is AMERICA the great? Can some one tell me how a similar catastrophe would be any different in a third world country?
Re:I am disapointed (Score:3, Insightful)
A few differences to consider.
In New Orleans or anywhere near it except with generators.
They did not have 3 feet of water in there way everywhere they go.
All the roads weren't knocked out (I think
Survivor Registry (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.survivorregistry.com/ [survivorregistry.com]
Katrina survivors can leave messages for family, plus we link to several other lost and found sites.
Old News - More Current References (Score:4, Insightful)
Some historical background - "everyone" knew the hurricane with New Orleans written on it was coming:
October 2004 National Geographic Article [nationalgeographic.com] about New Orleans getting whacked ... btw this site has been Drudged as opposed to Slashdot'd
October 2001 Scientific American article [sciam.com] about New Orleans getting whacked
Informed discussion over at Belmont Club Blog [blogspot.com]
An obscure blog [hogonice.com] describes the hurricane's impact on YOU in Anywhere USA before the hurrican ever made landfall:
Perhaps this all means we can look forward to the next MikeMoore film [fellowship911.com] proving that the "Bush Hitler Haliburton Rove Puppet Yale C Student Same As John Kerry" caused the hurricane.Re:Old News - More Current References (Score:3, Interesting)
Mirror of pictures from DirectNIC & sigmund.bi (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.nerdshack.com/katrina/ [nerdshack.com]
What a DISGRACE (Score:3)
Check out some sad reports I've read today.
--
FROM CNN:
FEMA chief: Victims bear some responsibility
Brown pleased with effort: 'Things are going relatively well'
Friday, September 2, 2005 Posted: 0341 GMT (1141 HKT)
(CNN) -- The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates.
Michael Brown also agreed with other public officials that the death toll in the city could reach into the thousands.
"Unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings," Brown told CNN.
"I don't make judgments about why people chose not to leave but, you know, there was a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans," he said.
"And to find people still there is just heart-wrenching to me because, you know, the mayor did everything he could to get them out of there.
"So, we've got to figure out some way to convince people that whenever warnings go out it's for their own good," Brown said. "Now, I don't want to second guess why they did that. My job now is to get relief to them."
Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin have both predicted the death toll could be in the thousands.
Nagin issued a "desperate SOS" Thursday as violence disrupted efforts to rescue people still trapped in the flooded city and evacuate thousands of displaced residents living amid corpses and human waste. (Full story)
Residents expressed growing frustration with the disorder evident on the streets, raising questions about the coordination and timeliness of relief efforts. (See video on the desperate conditions -- 4:36 )
Sniper fire prevented Charity Hospital from evacuating its patients Thursday. The hospital has no electricity or water, food consists of a few cans of vegetables, and the patients had to be moved to upper floors because of looters. (Full story) (See video of a city sinking in chaos -- 2:54)
Brown was upbeat in his assessment of the relief effort so far, ticking off a list of accomplishments: more than 30,000 National Guard troops will be in the city within three days, the hospitals are being evacuated and search and rescue missions are continuing. (See video of National Guard efforts to rein in violence -- 3:14)
"Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans -- virtually a city that has been destroyed -- that things are going relatively well," Brown said.
Nevertheless, he said he could "empathize with those in miserable conditions."
Asked later on CNN how he could blame the victims, many of whom could not flee the storm because they had no transportation or were too frail to evacuate on their own, Brown said he was not blaming anyone.
"Now is not the time to be blaming," Brown said. "Now is the time to recognize that whether they chose to evacuate or chose not to evacuate, we have to help them."
Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, whose father was a longtime New Orleans mayor, said there was "plenty of blame to go around," citing underinvestement by federal authorities over many years "despite pleas and warnings by officials."
Earlier on CNN, Brown was asked why authorities had not prepared for just such a catastrophe -- given that the levees were designed to withstand only a Category 3 hurricane and Katrina was stronger than that.
"Government officials and engineers will debate that and figure that out," he replied. "Right now, I'm trying to focus on saving lives. I think we should have that debate
Homeland Security turns out to be incompetent (Score:5, Insightful)
Disaster stockpiles don't seem to have been in place in New Orleans, even for the cheap stuff. A shipping container of water purification tablets would have been a huge help. Nobody seems to have thought to equip the Superdome, the designated disaster assembly point, with some basic water purification gear.
Congress and the voters need to ask some hard questions about where all that money goes and whether it's being spent properly.
Re:Homeland Security turns out to be incompetent (Score:4, Interesting)
OK. Let's suppose the worst nightmare comes true, the one the neocons keep telling us is such a realistic threat, the terrorists detonate a real live nuke in a city.
Well, then, we're stuffed, aren't we? Clearly they can't handle a flooded city even when given several days' warning. So if some sod manages to cause comparable damage with a bomb, with no warning...
I'm feeling really safe, aren't you?
Getting People Out vs Sending Aid In (Score:5, Insightful)
"The Real News" (Score:5, Informative)
Which is more merciless? (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't make up my mind. First I hear about National Guardsmen given "shoot to kill" orders, Bush asking for a paltry 10 billion in aid (as opposed to 80 billion for Iraq this year - I guess a New Orleans citizen is worth 1/8th of an Iraqi citizen?), helicopters dropping sandbags instead of food, and Bush and congress were all on vacation when this went down. And now I come on Slashdot and read people saying, in effect, that because they didn't clear out of town when they were told, it's all their own damn fault?
Remember, 1 out of 3 New Orleans citizens live at or below poverty level. What can you do when you have no car? How can you hear a warning if you don't have a TV set or radio? How can you evacuate when you're told to go to a convention center and wait for a bus that never shows up?
The storm was devestating. The response and aftermath are sickening.
Re:Mirror of his blog (Score:5, Informative)
Re:first (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, and the fuckers roaming the Dome and raping girls in dark corners? Two in the thighs to shatter bones, one in the gut to promote pain and infection, and a gun butt to the face while they're still conscious, just to let them know why they're being removed from the gene pool.
This is America, but if you want to act like it's Haiti then we'll play by Haiti rules.
(And for all you internet "anarchists" out there, I hope you're on the next bus to NOLA. This is what you wanted, right? They'll just looooooove to see you.)
Re:first (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a pair of AC-130 [fas.org]'s on "looter patrol". Once word gets around that TV's and 105mm holes are closely related, I'm sure the deadbeats will find something more productive to occupy their time.
What I would do... (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Declare marshall law; put the military in charge
2) Drop paratroopers to secure sites for coming supply drops
3) Do air drops of food and medical supplies (water too)
4) Send in the SEALS with their dingy boats to begin to rescue people/pick off snipers/gangs
5) Send in forward air controllers and ham radio operators- by parachute if needed. I would include military medics as well.
6) Commondere every single bus in the state of Texas, LA, MS, AL and AR and move into
THIS IS NOT libertarianism (Score:5, Informative)
THIS IS ANARCHY in the city! NOTHING LESS.
ANARCHY ANARCHY ANARCHY!
According to http://www.m-w.com/ [m-w.com] Anarachy:
1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
Libertarianism involves a civilized society. I am sure you can Google to find lots of books and essays on the subject. But a few requirements for libertarianism:
- LIMITED government (not non-existant)
- free markets
- personal responsibility
- individual freedoms
The main philosophy behind libertarianism is 'your rights go so far until they impede on other people's rights"
DO NOT spread misinformation like this; it is iresponsible, and ignorant!
Re:Chaos too harsh a word (Score:5, Insightful)
Sir, you have your ideologies mixed up. As far as I know, as per Ayn Rand, "altruism is a folly". Ergo, in a Libertarian society, following the sacred rules, there would be no aid. You see, all those poeple down there brought that disaster onto themselves by being ... I guess black, poor or the combination of thereof. Or something.
On the other hand, it is us, the "bleeding heart" pinko-commie libruls, who are evilly ploting to do those treasonous "social safety net" and "disaster relief" things. Which seems to work for us here in Canada, as the 1997 flood experience showed, but hey, we are all beavers up here anyhow, so thats probably why, eh?
Re:Chaos too harsh a word (Score:4, Insightful)
500 tourists were stopped by the police as they tried to exit the city tonight. One was interviewed on CNN. They were stopped at gunpoint. Their busses, which they had paid for, were commandered. And not to pick up people who needed them-- there are thousands standing outside the superdome, who have been there for 3 days, and have gotten ZERO busses. No, the police just stole them, and forced the tourists back into the city at gunpoint. Wouldn't let them walk out. If some of those tourists had had firearms and the sense to use them, less of them would die than will now die because of this police action. THIS IS THE SOCIALIST POLICE STATE IN ACTION.
You socialists want people disarmed and dependant on the state-- and this is what you get.
Congratulations. Thousands dead. You happy?
Re:Chaos too harsh a word (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN PLEASE (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think you understand the word libertarian. Libertarianism != anarchy (complete lack of rule). Libertarians don't believe in raiding high ground or infrastructure, and they don't believe in slavery (they believe it is a violation of one's freedom; remember, libertarianism has the philosophy of freedom and of non-coercion). And many libertarians have the heart to rescue innocent people for no charge.
I don't know what you've been taught about libertarianism, but somebody must have taught you that all libertarians are cold, apathetic, greedy, and selfish individuals. That's not true. Many libertarians support helping others, and many libertarians are filling the government's shoes and helping donate to Red Cross and other organizations. (Libertarians love private charity). I wish that the local, state, and federal governments (especially the local and state governments) had a more active role in providing these citizens food and water. It doesn't help to be in a huge shelter if you're going to die of dehydration. (And, yes, I'm a libertarian. Whaddo'ya know, a Libertarian who supports pinko commie ideas like giving food and water to displaced citizens. Who would've thought....) What you are seeing in the streets of New Orleans isn't representative of libertarianism at all. You're seeing almost pure anarchy.
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN PLEASE (Score:3, Interesting)
While I understand that to be the philosophy, it is also my understanding that when applied to real life, those things I mentioned would be the outcome, as most Libertarians I spoke to are of a belief that free-market economics is a form of a religion and therefore flawless and uni
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN PLEASE (Score:4, Insightful)
Let me see, a party in power, which would significantly reduce or eliminate the last remaining restraints on multi-national corporations and allow rampant consolidation of ultra-wealthy companies. Then to remove all protective regulations, allow media to become completely consolidated and owned by the sellers, thus removing any independent information flow to consumers/citizens. Followed by removal of nearly all forms of government assistance to elderly and the sick etc etc. This kind of party would deliver a sledge-hammer blow to the entire society of the USA and although, luckilly, its power would be curbed at its borders, the citizens within would not be so lucky. Just look at what happened to FEMA. The same organization which handled the California erthquake or previous disasters like 9/11 is now paralysed shortly after a Libertarian was appointed its head. It wants people to donate to Pat Robertson's fatwa-issuing religious fund instead to directly assist the victims.
Any homogenous political system will fail--period. In its purest form, every party as we know them is utopian because they're all trying to build a world on a set of ideals. It's just the "ideals for whom" that sets tyranical dictators apart from democratic parties. Thusly, the usage of the word utopia here is relative.
Sure it is "relative". Some systems can fail within weeks (Marxism, Libertarianism) and some take centuries to falter (Socially-Responsible Democratic Capitalism of various stripes).
Seriously--your argument rests on the government being overthrown by a laissez faire group in one fell swoop, and disallowing the democratic principles that Libertarians champion. This is one of the most oft-repeated arguments, and one of the most pourus as well. If someone wants to argue real-world situations, an argument such as this is about the poorest way to do so.
No, my argument hinges on the true players, the already ultra-wealthy, laissez faire hyenas, who would immensly benefit from the naive goofuses calling themselves Libertarians, making way for them to take over in the short order via controlling the nations economy. That is what you seem to be missing in the whole scenario. Your silly utopia is in fact a battering ram with which these would-be robber barrons and feudal lords would smash the last remaining barriers holding them in place.
Might I add your flamboyant ignorance differentiates you little from that BitGeek fellow.
You are very long on bold proclamations and very short on actual logic.
Re:WTF, People! (Score:5, Informative)
he's getting fuel runs because the police precincts are *abandoned*, and his office *isn't*. he's getting fuel runs because his infrastucture is *still intact*. the police and military are helping *him*, because he's got his shit together and is keeping data trunk lines running.
and just for the record, blogging, as a one-to-many means of communication, is the most efficient way that these folks are able to communicate to everybody else. they don't have time to sift through emails and make phone calls, so they're using their blogs as a broadcasting mechanism.
God, I hate self-possessed tards who don't appreciate the work that other people do, and don't know what an OC3 or a metro-area disaster recovery plan is.
for someone with such a low UserID and who, apparently, has been around here for a long time, I'm surprised that you don't understand the importance of keeping telephone lines up in emergency situations.
To any moderators reading, please mod parent post as Troll.
Re:Suggested Plan of Action (Score:4, Insightful)
Last I heard, martial law was declared. However, you do NOT want to put the military in charge and the military generally does not want to be in charge of a situation like this. Leave FEMA in charge like their charter is set up for and just have them give tasks to the military.
2) Drop paratroopers to secure sites for coming supply drops
Paratroopers would probably break their leggs coming down in some of those areas. Either that or be close to drowning in others.
3) Do air drops of food and medical supplies (water too)
Already being done or trying to be done.
4) Send in the SEALS with their dingy boats to begin to rescue people/pick off snipers/gangs.
Those boats don't hold many besides the seals, recruit all the people from the LA Bayou to do the rescuing (being done) and have the seals take out the idiots shooting at people.
5) Send in forward air controllers and ham radio operators- by parachute if needed. I would include military medics as well.
What would air controllers be able to do? hams? don't need them, just satelite phones or something similar. No need for licensed civialians that are good for nothing else. Medics? should already be on their way. However, there are a lot more civilian ones than military ones already on hand.
6) Commondere every single bus in the state of Texas, LA, MS, AL and AR and move into the city heavily fortified by military support
Aside from those other states still needing them, and some pesky 4th ammendment issues, it is also a case of being able to get the busses to the people or the people to the busses. It's not easy driving a bus through 3 feet of water. Also, at 60 people/bus, over 100,000 people (not sure how many still in the evacuation area) you would need over 2,000 bus trips. Drivers for the busses and a place to put the people afterwards along with food. Also, don't bother with the military escorts, just find a safe area that doesn't need a route to be guarded and get the busses and people there. Will take up much less resources and anyone who can be guarding can be used to keep order in other areas.
7) Use 2 aircraft carriers, park them as close to the city as possible. AC#1 gets used as military command and HQ. AC#2 is used to put evacuaees aboard for food/shelter. If AC#2 isn't available commondere a cruise ship and use it.
Much better to use a land HQ as HQ is then closer to the reports. Probably a few other advantages as well. As for putting evacuees on a Carrier? Not unless it is absolutely necessary. You would have to make sure none try to get near any ammo or restricted sections of the ship. Easier said than done. A Carrier holds ~5k people as is. When you "trust" everyone it works fairly well. Start adding random people, some of which who would probably try to break into a weapons locker (at the least) or try to cause some damage to the ship (at the worst, remember they have several nuclear reactors as a power source). Best use for the carriers is desalinzation of water and relay of food. But keep civilians that you can't necessarily trust off it.
Asking for British, Canadian, and Mexican forces to lend a hand is a good idea as well.
British and Canadian are fine, they all speak english and I'm prety sure I can trust them. Mexican forces probably do not and given some of the problems I have heard about I am not sure I would trust them.
This scenerio is NOT being managed in the right way and once this is over I want to see several independent and congressional studies as to what the breakdown was.
No one ever gets it right the first time (I don't remember something like thise happening to a city before). Nor do I a population of a million having to be relocated in under a week. I'm not sure there ever is a "right way" to manage a large disaster. As for an inqu
Re:NBC news doesn't give a crap (Score:4, Insightful)
"hey, the new decentralized individual based news media (you know, those things called "blogs"?) is providing great up to the minute coverage of the disaster while you traditionalists parade out a bunch of talking heads!"
of course they got pissed at you >:)
The other week on Fox news, they were talking about blogs and wiki-news, and one of their brain-dead pundits exclaimed "but how can we trust the WORDS?!"
My wife had a good laugh at that one. Yes FOX NEWS, indeeed, how can we trust their words, thank you for that FAIR AND BALANCED commentary.
btw, i get my news from blogs, wikinews, google-news aggregation (for the major media stories) and every night i filter it with a good helping of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.