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Technology Science

Intelligence in the Internet Age 304

ErikPeterson writes to tell us about an article on News.com that takes a look at technology versus intelligence of the general population. From the article: 'Is technology making us smarter? Or are we lazily reliant on computers, and, well, dumber than we used to be?'
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Intelligence in the Internet Age

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  • by Lord Grey ( 463613 ) * on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:54PM (#13598763)
    So the article basically says that intelligence remains the same overall, but how the intelligence is applied changes wildly as time goes by. Also, that specific applications of intelligence (skill?) in one field does not necessarily translate to another. Both points make sense, but I don't think either one is really news to anyone here. The article actually relates (without saying so) to one of my favorite quotes:
    "Civilization advances by increasing the number of things one can do simultaneously."
    I wish I could remember who actually said that, and whether I'm remembering it accurately or not. A quick search didn't turn up anything concrete, but I was probably looking in the wrong places.
    • by absolutspl ( 710522 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:58PM (#13598807)
      "Civilization advances by extending the number of operations which we can perform without thinking about them." - Alfred North Whitehead good ole' google.com
      • Well, if you don't have to work very hard to perform tasks A, B, and C (because of calculators, the internet, spell check and various other thought-saving technologies) you can focus really, really hard on D (whether it is inventing a new computer algorithm, cold fusion, frictionless sandpaper, or new things to sue people over). Good old fashioned division of labor.

        At least, that's the theory.

    • right- (Score:5, Interesting)

      by conJunk ( 779958 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:00PM (#13598829)
      Both points make sense, but I don't think either one is really news to anyone here

      exactly... it seemed like it was written because some editor really needed a technology article, fast, and just pulled first thing he could find out of his butt... it didn't really offer anything at all, and when it did, it was all obvious

      anyone who grew up in the last 30 years probably remembers wanting to use a calculator in school, and being told we couldn't because we had to learn how to do it first. that's basically still the case, isn't it? technology isn't going to make anyone dumber, unless we opt not to learn things any more.

      but really, those people have always been around, and there have always been geeks who want to learn everything anyway. i don't think anything is going to change, except there will be more toys to play with.
      • Lots of high schools have really bad teachers who basically teach their algebra classes as if they were a "learn to punch things into a calculator but not understand what happens" class. Students don't really have an option as to who their teacher is and even then, some school systems make this type of thing go on uniformly. When people try to go up in higher level college math, they're fucked.
        • Re:right- (Score:5, Insightful)

          by conJunk ( 779958 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:43PM (#13599193)
          Lots of high schools have really bad teachers who basically teach their algebra classes as if they were a "learn to punch things into a calculator but not understand what happens" class. Students don't really have an option as to who their teacher is and even then, some school systems make this type of thing go on uniformly. When people try to go up in higher level college math, they're fucked.

          i don't know... i've had bad teachers, and i've had good teachers. I think if a student is really interested in a subject, he or she will find a way to learn it.

          algebra is a funny example, becuase the number of people who would put in the effort to learn algebra despite a bad teacher is a small group of people. that's us, the geeks. we like algebra, we think it's pretty. we're a minority.

          i think that with the kinds of people we (geeky slashdot people) like to hang out with, and with the kinds of jobs we get, it's easy to get a skewed perspective of how people really think and what they are in to. it's like in college. i went to a small liberal arts college, and i would meet kids all the time who would say stuff like "how do these conservatives get elected? *i* don't know anyone who would vote for them"... well... there's a big america out there that i just don't like to be in touch with...

          the same is true for technology... when we invented calculators, people who would never have leared math in the first place could now do it... that didn't stop anybody who would have learned it anyway from still learning how it's done

      • would allow us to use programmable calculators providing that we wrote the programs for them. This was in 1983 so pulling code off the net really wasn't an option so it was pretty legit.
    • by RealAlaskan ( 576404 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:03PM (#13598854) Homepage Journal
      A quick search didn't turn up anything concrete, but I was probably looking in the wrong places.

      Does that tell us something about your intelligence in the internet age?

      Seriously (didn't want to be mean, but couldn't help myself), were you maybe thinking of Alfred Whitehead [brainyquote.com], who said:

      Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them.
      • by mbrother ( 739193 ) * <mbrother.uwyo@edu> on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:09PM (#13598912) Homepage
        The above post, and others, proves the point that we're "smarter" using computers. But ascribing a quote to someone isn't hard...

        What's going to be harder in the future, and can be hard right now, is knowing how to verify and sift through the information you find on the internet. A "smart" person will be the one who can do this, and a "dumb" one is the one who gets their information from a bogus website full of crap.

        That would have been a better and more interesting direction for the article to go.
        • by RealAlaskan ( 576404 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:37PM (#13599124) Homepage Journal
          What's going to be harder in the future, and can be hard right now, is knowing how to verify and sift through the information you find on the internet.

          That little insight is what made Google what it is. Anyone who figures a good way to really automate that is going to get far richer than they did.

          Intelligence is so ill-defined that I feel a little foolish talking about it, but it's more or less correlated to lots of good things, like success in school, ability to write page ranking algorithms, and so on, so we do all keep talking about it, whatever it is.

          I do think that over-reliance on technology can keep folks from using their brains, and thus keep them from developing their intelligence. Even someone who is reasonably shrewd about finding factual facts won't gain much by it if he can't analyse those facts.

          • by plover ( 150551 ) * on Monday September 19, 2005 @05:20PM (#13599475) Homepage Journal
            Anyone who figures a good way to really automate that is going to get far richer than they did.

            Except that reality is perversely the exact opposite of this. Witness the evolution of Google's PageRank or of any set of spam filters.

            What happens is that you have people with bad "stuff" (spam, ignorant ideas, marketing hype vs. facts, or whatever.) And these flat-earth people are filtered out by effective spam filters, or left behind by legitimate search engines. So what do they do? They rig the game. Spammers start quoting Jane Austin in between pictures of Vl4GR4. Casino operators place spam-links in unrelated blogs. Homeopathic quackery is disguised as "medical" advice. And all these idiots have to do is figure out how to splatter spam all over until their Google PageRanks show them to be the world's leading authority on "all-natural cures for cancer" or whatever.

            Google tries hard. They really don't want quack medicine to show up as the first hit for "cancer treatments," but they've provided the ultimate testing ground for the shysters. All the flat-earthers have to do is keep trying until they look legitimate.

            Already it's become hard to convince my wife that the top hit on a search engine isn't necessarily the most honest or accurate place to get advice. Looking at Google's results, even I might get caught by a sham site at the top named mayo-clinic.com (the real site is mayoclinic.com) Fortunately, many of the stupid sites (alternative-medicine-and-health.com, for example) are self-announcing.

            On the bright side, it's possible that intelligence is going to be subject to evolutionary pressures. If the people who fall for the flat-earther's scams run out and try to cure their cancer with laetrile (or whatever the 2000's equivalent is,) then Charles Darwin's theories suggest that they are going to be a self-limiting lot.

            • by jaseparlo ( 819802 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @06:01PM (#13599685) Homepage

              The problem is though that the idiots usually manage to reproduce before they knock themselves off, so hoping Darwin will save you won't get you anywhere.

              This is the geeks misunderstanding of natural selection - intellectuals love evolution because they think their superior brains will win in the end. This works in the work world to some extent, but on a species scale it's different.

              The reality as far as evolution goes (and remember that evolution works on a macro scale, not in your lifetime or the foreseeable future) is that stupid people are at a distinct advantage. While intellectuals tend to have two or one children, the stupid masses are going at it like rabbits. Intelligent are at a selective disadvantage, because we don't pass our genes on as often as the trailer trash chicks that drop out of school by the time they are pregnant at 14 and have 8 kids by their 30th birthday.

              *They* are the evolutionary giants, not us. We live side by side now, but when society breaks down in a few hundred years or whatever, the billions of big dumb kids will finish us off very quickly.

              Of course, it's even less of an issue for most /.ers, because sitting at home by yourself with your 20 gig porn collection isn't gonna pass your genes on to anything but your keyboard...

              • your elitism towards superior intellect is over-rated. as dumb as 'sheeple' seem it's not that they don't have the capacity to think and learn it's simply that they've turned it off in software mode.

                yeah, the human brains of your typical genius and your average sheeple aren't actually all that different. in fact with the exception of those who've used alchohol and drugs to damage there brains they're usualy identical. so what is the difference? it's the software. The intelectually superior have through t
    • by jejones ( 115979 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:04PM (#13598867) Journal
      Alfred North Whitehead, Introduction to Mathematics.

      An Asimov essay made a point apropos to TFA, and that points out at least one major gaping hole in the "here's an eighth-grade test from a 19th century elementary school; could you pass it?" meme. The Asimov essay dealt with a math book of 18th or 19th century vintage, and pointed out how much of it was spent on things that aren't studied today--because they're of minimal worth in today's world. The example Asimov gave was mixed-base arithmetic (adding shillings and pence and pounds)--the eighth-grade test was chock full of similarly antiquated and now-worthless units of measure.

      That said--there is a core of information that people should learn well enough to not need to consult Google, lest one spend one's time looking things up rather than doing something worthwhile. The question is, what is that core?
      • >what is the core?

        And how do we let the curriculum gatekeepers know that the 'core' has moved? A cabinet-level 'Core Identification Officer' like the french have for grammar? If we did identify today's core, how much of that core would we have to toss out once 2020's bigbrain.google.com takes questions like 'how many dissertations on cold fusion in the last thirty years failed to take into account doping irregularities of the palladium annode?'

        (Answers google; "3. Shall I place them onto your iPo
      • You mean like inches, feet, and miles? Then throw in feet to meters, inches to centimeters, and miles to kilometers. Scary thing is I know that 25.4 mms make one inch.
        Would you believe that many kids do not learn to tell time with an analog clock until 7th or 8th grade. I wonder how long until they become obsolete.

        • You mean like inches, feet, and miles?

          I wish. Unfortunately, the US, while sane enough to make the switch to "decimal money," hasn't gotten around to switching to a sane system of measurements.
          • Yep but you know I read a motorcycle mag from the UK called bike. They give MPG for the fuel economy but give the tank size in liters.
            And when I look at at the VW uk site they give the fuel economy in MPG but I think it is in imperial gallons. They also include the liters per 100 km value.
            It would seem that the US isn't the only country to have some horrible mixed base systems.
            And then you have the wost mixed base system of all, time. I mean 60 seconds to the minute, 60 minutes to the hour, 24 hours to the
      • Isn't that analogous to both fractions as well as the various science classes stressing getting things in like terms?
      • The question is, what is the core?


        I dunno. I'll uh...look it up on google.
      • The question is, what is that core?

        And how many nuclear bombs will it take to jump-start it?

      • "That said--there is a core of information that people should learn well enough to not need to consult Google, lest one spend one's time looking things up rather than doing something worthwhile. The question is, what is that core?"

        I think human intelligence is going to go obselete sooner or later once we know and understand how the human mind works computers, advanced measuring sensors and AI's will do the heavy lifting because lets face it, humans have horribly slow processing and memory systems compared t
      • by rgmoore ( 133276 ) * <glandauer@charter.net> on Monday September 19, 2005 @05:23PM (#13599491) Homepage
        The question is, what is that core?

        Each person has their own core of knowledge that's essential to them in their lives, but much of that isn't shared. As a trivial example, I need to know the layout of streets in my neighborhood but not in yours, while you need to know your neighborhood but not mine. If I ever want to visit you, I can use a map (though you'd need to provide your address first). An auto mechanic needs to memorize different things from a surgeon. To a considerable extent, we wind up learning those kinds of things without necessarily trying. I find that I'll wind up memorizing things incidentally when I've looked them up enough times.

        The things that everyone needs to know are essentially how to get along in society- the three Rs, the basic structure of society, and how to coexist with others without fighting. Add in the ability to learn new things as you discover that you need to know them, and you've come to the end of what everyone needs to know.

      • The question is, what is that core?

        It's a really interesting question at that. I was in a book store a while ago and asked a young clerk there where I could find books written by Plato. She looked questioningly at me and said "is that a poet or something?"

        I was a little shocked by this but when I told the story to my mother, who was a teacher, she pointed out that the amount of knowledge that we have available to teach just keeps getting greater and greater and who is to say that the things we once tho

    • Just recently I saw an article somewhere (maybe here?) that said because we do more things at one time now, we don't do each one as compeltely as we should therefore we are getting DUMBER. I thought that was a huge jump to a unsupported conclusion. I tend to think it reduces our workload doing the mundane and we can focus on the more important tasks (like posting to /.)
    • On the contrary, I think that slashdot grammar and spelling nazis would be stunned to learn that their skills have been rendered irrelevant by technology, and I think they would leap at the chance to deny the claim that how intelligence is applied ever changes.
    • by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:22PM (#13599004) Journal
      The Flynn Effect actually shows that intelligence has beening rising ~2 IQ points a decade since 1900. Some recent data suggests that this may have petered out beginning in the 1980s though.

      It remains an open question as to the cause. It's far too fast to be genetic. A combination of better childhood nutrition and lower disease burden may explain most of it. There has been some suggestion that the Flynn Effect is mainly concentrated on the lower-half of the Bell Curve, but this is contested.
  • Huh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kid Zero ( 4866 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:55PM (#13598770) Homepage Journal
    Or are we lazily reliant on computers, and, well, dumber than we used to be?'

    You're asking this here? Can't wait to see the answers. :)

  • Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ZakuSage ( 874456 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:56PM (#13598778)
    Lazy != Dumb
    • Re:Hmm (Score:2, Interesting)

      by CDMA_Demo ( 841347 )

      I agree, infact Lazy people, being lazy try to find ways to cut corners, and find smarter ways to get things done so they don't have to work as hard as others.
    • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

      'Lazy' isn't the same as 'Dumb'

      In a way, it is. Using your neocortex more leaves you more "intelligent" than using it less.

      But, with intelligence tests measuring many of the skills that technology increasingly performs for us, it's unavoidable that we'll eventually start to look pretty dumb. The fact is, though, that we (non-lazy folks) have, in all likelihood, merely migrated to a different skill-set.

      • Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

        by arevos ( 659374 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @05:18PM (#13599467) Homepage
        In a way, it is. Using your neocortex more leaves you more "intelligent" than using it less.

        Assuming that by 'lazy', one means a tendency to avoid work, then being lazy requires one to use their mind more, not less.

        A truly lazy person will work out how to achieve the same results with less effort. Necessity being the mother of invention, most innovations come about from people trying to reduce the work they have to do.
  • We? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Or are we lazily reliant on computers, and, well, dumber than we used to be?'

    When you say "we" do you mean just Slashdot editors, or the rest of us too? Arrrrr.
  • Intelligence (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mysqlrocks ( 783488 )

    Is technology making us smarter? Or are we lazily reliant on computers, and, well, dumber than we used to be?

    I don't think it makes us smarter or dumber. What we are smart about changes. We can use technology to do things we could never do before. But there are things we could do in the past that we can't do anymore.
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:57PM (#13598794)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • As a General Rule (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you think an article dealing with..." technology versus intelligence of the general population. From the article: 'Is technology making us smarter?" is anything other than sensationalist technobable, then you are dumb.
  • by saarbruck ( 314638 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:59PM (#13598811) Homepage
    for an interesting fictional look at the result of always having the digital world instantly available, check out "Feed" by M.T. Anderson (ISBN: 0763622591)


    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0763 622591/qid=1127163377/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2061 972-8686328?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 [amazon.com]

  • by fireboy1919 ( 257783 ) <(rustyp) (at) (freeshell.org)> on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:59PM (#13598812) Homepage Journal
    Hold on, let me check my new brain for the answer.

    Nope [google.com]. It looks like that's all background noise.

    Clearly we is just as smarter as we used to was, and can did our stuff just as much as we used to could.
  • Both (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phasm42 ( 588479 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @03:59PM (#13598821)
    Smart people will use technology to augment their intelligence. Dumb people will use it to become lazier. And in between there will be mixes of augmentation and lazy reliance. I don't think there's a single answer to this question. I think this has always been true, but technology amplifies this gap.
    • I agree with what you are saying, but for me the ratio of augmentation:lazy seems more dependant on how late I was out the previous night and how much I drank.
    • Science itself is the perfect example. The only difference here is that, instead of "standing on the shoulders of giants", we can also "stand on the shoulders of things giants have built".

    • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:25PM (#13599030)
      Lazy doesn't mean dumb. Smart people often apply their intelligence to try and automate something so they don't have to do it. Our UNIX admin here at work reworked our new account system. Previously students had to come to the computer room, show their ID, get added, go long in to telnet, run a shitty script that often didn't work, have someone manually create the Windows side of the account,. Now they go to a webpage, enter their university ID, it checks their affiliation, makes and synchs all the accounts, and does so in about 5 seconds.

      Now his motivation for this was laziness, basically. He was sick of dealing with a massive rush of students the first week and having to have the whole computing staff bust their ass on meanial shit. So he found an intelligent solution to the problem. This year, the first day was hardly any different from any other.

      Lazy, perhaps, not dumb.
      • Reminds me of the old saying, "If you want the job done quickly, find the laziest man."

        I've done a similar thing with registering MAC addresses for our students. Like you've observed, a little laziness and some clever thinking can make everyones life easier.
      • I'm lazy as to the amount of energy I'll expend on a single task but not lazy in general. I just cram more tasks in than non-lazy people.
      • That reminds me of two of the great virtues of a programmer. Laziness, and hubris. If your unix admin was missing either one of these he never would have created the current system you now enjoy.
      • by TeknoHog ( 164938 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @06:01PM (#13599684) Homepage Journal
        Laziness is one thing that drives new inventions, but there's also the sheer joy of hacking. People like us enjoy solving problems.

        If there's a job that would take the same time either by brute force, or by writing a program that does the actual work quickly, I'd choose the latter. I'd probably choose it even if it took slightly longer than the grunt route, because of the fun and the experience/education gained. There's also this weird sense of inherent wrongness/evil in doing grunt work, if a clever alternative is available.

    • Actually I think tech. can make dumb people even more dumb.

      Instead of people saying "I don't know.", which only makes them, "ignorant", they'll google for a quick answer. But quick answers are not always the right answer, especially when the topic is complex.

  • Well, they would go up if they didn't keep raising the bar to get a given score.

    Did you score 100 on your IQ test in 1980? Well guess what, by today's standards that's below average.

    Barely crack the top 2% 25 years ago? Sorry to disappoint, but you're not a genius anymore.
    • "Did you score 100 on your IQ test in 1980? Well guess what, by today's standards that's below average. "

      Not so. If you were to score 100 on 1980's IQ test today, then fine -- because the average score today on that specific test would be over 100.

      By definition, an IQ of 100 on a normalized, current test is the statistical average.

      • It is clear that the GP poster meant "below average today on the 1980s test. So you are both right.

        However, as Rushton noes: "Principal components analyses show that whereas the IQ gains over time on the WISC-R and WISC-III do cluster (suggesting they are a reliable phenomenon), these are independent of g factor loadings..." So the rise in IQ scores (which varies greatly by country, is primrily evident in non-verbal tests and which is mostly due to increases in the lower end of the ability spectrum) is not
    • It's called the Flynn effect, and it's something on the order of 3 IQ points per decade since the test was normed. So if you were in the top 2% 25 years ago, now you're around top 5%. Not horrible.
  • Or are we lazily reliant on computers, and, well, dumber than we used to be?
    Interesting flame.

    A person's average intelligence is going up while a person's average knowledge is going down.

    Sounds like a good opportunity for under-achievement! :}
  • I don't like to read on the computer, so I was going to print out the article, but I'm too lazy to click the link.
  • by jandrese ( 485 ) * <kensama@vt.edu> on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:02PM (#13598850) Homepage Journal
    Basically, technology makes us more efficient, which is an assertion that few on slashdot are going to dispute. This means we can either do more with our time, or have more leisure time and look "lazier" to someone without proper context.

    During the dawn of agriculture, humans had to work their butts off every day tending to fields or getting ready for the winter or they would die. These days you can work a mere 8 hours a day in a cushy office job and have all of the food and shelter you need. Modern man looks a lot lazer--he only works half as much time wise--but due to technology he's actually contributing more to society than his primitive ancestor.
    • by BeanThere ( 28381 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:47PM (#13599239)

      The Khoi-San bushmen live in a near desert and yet compared to modern Western societies, once you've factored out all the activities required for survival, they literally have more leisure time than we do. It is a myth (propagated by who?) that "primitive" societies have to "work their butts off just to survive". We are the ones working our butts off, just to survive and "keep up with the Joneses".

      OK, granted, more primitive societies do not produce the kind of 'excess wealth' and R&D environments that allow us to create and afford things like hospital care, roads, modern medicine and cool gadgets. But nonetheless this still seems like a counter-intuitive result, and it should very well make you wonder why, for all our technology, we are working as hard or harder than ever before, and why our stress levels are higher than agrarian or hunter/gatherer societies.

      This is not a technology problem, it's a cultural problem - somehow we are willingly enslaved by the "modern work ethic" ('wave slaves'), driven perhaps by the ruling class, who implement systems that result in massively uneven distribution of wealth. It is possible to create enough "stuff" to allow us all to work fewer hours, but something else is wrong with the system that prevents this from actually ever happening. We've been conditioned to think eight hours a day is normal and is not much, but really, think about it, who came up with this "eight hours" concept anyway? Eight hours a day is nearly your whole life, as most of the little remaining time goes to sleep or "administrative" tasks like grooming, eating, buying groceries, etc. What do you have left, maybe an hour or two a day on average?

      • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @05:05PM (#13599370) Journal
        That's only half the story, however: I could achieve the same standard of living as a stone-age tribesman with very little work indeed. The simple fact is, technology improves our expectations as fast as it improves our efficiency, so it will always take more-or-less the same amount of work to achieve a standard of living that "the average person" in a given society would find acceptable. The technology available just determines what the work ethic in your culture will provide for you.
  • by hungrygrue ( 872970 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:02PM (#13598851) Homepage
    Or are we lazily reliant on computers, and, well, dumber than we used to be?'
    Any honest answer to that question will be modded -1 flamebate.
    • Any honest answer to that question will be modded -1 flamebate.

      That's flamebait ... you've obviously answered both questions in a single go without risking the "-1" mods! ;)
  • by garcia ( 6573 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:03PM (#13598860)
    Does that mean he's not as bright as an economist from the 1950s? Is he smarter? The answer is probably "no" on both counts. He traded one skill for another. Computer skills make him far more efficient and allow him to present more accurate--more intelligent--information. And without them, he'd have a tough time doing his job. But drop him into the Federal Reserve 40 years ago, and a lack of skill with the slide rule could put an equal crimp on his career.

    Or, on the other side of the ruler, put that same economist from 40 years ago w/his slide rule knowledge into today's world and watch him be as equally worthless.

    Computers, the Internet, and the information available to us nearly instantaneously has made us a completely different culture all together. There is no use comparing us to those in the past. It's just not the same... I remember when I was learning about cells and my father said to me, "When I learned about cells we knew of the cell wall and the nucleus. Look at what you have to know." Now students probably don't even have to know that - Google tells them everything they need to know. That doesn't make them dumb - that makes them have room to learn TONS more.

    I am honestly looking forward to the day when wireless Internet is combined with Internet mapping software (i.e. GMaps) and an online collaboration. Say goodbye to speed traps (your autorouting will know the locations of the traps and route you around it or warn you to slow down).

    The possibilities are endless and the creative factor is incredible!
    • I am honestly looking forward to the day when wireless Internet is combined with Internet mapping software (i.e. GMaps) and an online collaboration. Say goodbye to speed traps (your autorouting will know the locations of the traps and route you around it or warn you to slow down).

      A nice outlook, but probably not accurate. In all probability, your GPS link to google maps will also submit data to a local "saftey enforcement" group and when your speed exceeds the limit, you get an automated ticket printed ou


    • I remember when I was learning about cells and my father said to me, "When I learned about cells we knew of the cell wall and the nucleus. Look at what you have to know." Now students probably don't even have to know that - Google tells them everything they need to know.

      I can't see how that's conceptually different from saying that books made knowing things obsolete.
  • The article is pretty obvious, I think anyway, and makes a lot of obvious statements and conclusions. Am I smarter if I can calculate a cube root in a few minutes with paper or a pencil than if I have to use a calculator? No, probably not, just a different skill than others. However, the point that is made, but not made strongly enough, is that our technology is now part of us. A computer isn't smart -- it's a machine that executes commands. A human is smart, at some level. A human with a computer full
  • by H310iSe ( 249662 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:05PM (#13598879)
    Aside from the obvious one, spelling, I think the word processor has encouraged at best a different kind of intelligence.

    It used to be you had to conceive your entire essay/story/etc., then have each paragraph, and each sentence, held in your head to some extent before you started writing. Think once / write once (edit once) and then type it out. Now you can start a paper/paragraph/sentence with nothing in your short term memory, just kind of roll it out and go back a million times to edit/redu/rethink/rework it until it's all coherent.

    Basically, for certain tasks, the more that's stored in the electronic memory the less is (needed to be) stored in your brain.

    • Am I the only one who used to write essays on scratch paper first and then collate what I was trying to say in a rough outline and then write my essay?

      Personally, I think the word processor encourages people to write essays in a colossal brain-dump 'cause maintaining multiple document files is bothersome (versus my unruly bundle of scribbled notes I can cram into a folder).
  • IMHO.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by lem0n263 ( 915429 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:06PM (#13598882)
    The truth is that we (humans as a whole) haven't grown progressively smarter or dumber, just we have learned how to get information when needed. just my 2 cents
    • Re:IMHO.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by interiot ( 50685 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:35PM (#13599112) Homepage
      So, 100 years ago, people could have set off an atomic bomb, flown to space, and printed up some million+ transistor circuits, if they only knew the right people to talk to? The only difference between Einstein and Pythagoras is that Einstein talked to more people?

      No, it's because our knowledge builds on top of the last generation's knowledge, and along with writing those ideas down, humanity's knowledge base becomes exponentially larger.

      • Re:IMHO.... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Dhalka226 ( 559740 )

        No, it's because our knowledge builds on top of the last generation's knowledge, and along with writing those ideas down, humanity's knowledge base becomes exponentially larger.

        Fair enough, but it seems to me that there is a difference between knowledge and intelligence. Knowledge is stuff we know, whereas intelligence is an aptitude to be able to apply it. Sure, the human race as a collective can now build devices that fly to space or build atomic bombs, but I can't. Not smart enough. Even if you la

  • Look it up (Score:4, Informative)

    by nucal ( 561664 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:06PM (#13598883)
    Never memorize anything you can look up. Einstein, Albert

    which you can look up here [kgb.com]

  • Double Edge Sword (Score:2, Interesting)

    by karvind ( 833059 )
    I can give one examples for each side:

    (a) Not long ago (10 yrs), I had to go to library to look up for technical papers. It used to be a pain to brush the dust in library to find your paper, xerox on the old photocopy machine. Often I would be coming out with thick stacks of bound journals. Thanks to good searching capabilities and online publications, I don't have to leave my desk and can access papers dating back to 1930s. Also with keyword search I can look at more papers in the same time. Just because

  • FTA: "Intelligence, as it impacts the economist Valderrama, is our capacity to adapt and thrive in our own environment."

    If you do not change your intelligence-measuring criteria, then yes, we is more dumber.

    If you use this definition of intelligence, and you change your measuring criteria to fit the current environment, then no, we have not lost any measure of intelligence.

    Am I less smart because I can no longer do 14-digit long division in my head, like I did when I was young? No.
    Am I smarter beca
    • Am I less smart because I can no longer do 14-digit long division in my head, like I did when I was young? No. Am I smarter because I approximate it and don't waste my time figuring it out? Maybe. Am I smarter because I use the calculator because there is less risk of error? Almost definitely.

      i really like this approach- a kind of societal or community intelligence, where if the individuals can not achieve the desire result because they don't know how, BUT, can use technology to get the answer, then we d
  • If anything happens that all our technology is destroyed to the point where we're living like Gilligan, make note that I have dibs on being the village sandwich maker.
  • by Godeke ( 32895 ) * on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:15PM (#13598954)
    Intelligence is *not* remembering phone numbers. Intelligence is the application of ideas to solve problems. Having a strong memory can be helpful in some tasks (and certainly an amount of working store is a minimum requirement) but memorizing long chains of random data is pointless. Seeing patterns in *seemingly* random data, perhaps that requires a larger working store, but it also seems like a great place to apply computation.

    I don't see the downside of the Internet, instant communication, computational power etc as far as intelligence goes. The example they give of a financial analysis: the modern analyst uses computers to build models and compute massive numbers of "what if" possibilities. The old analyst would be force to spend an immense amount of time and effort to compute one of these.

    Likewise, I have on tap an immense number of resources on administrative tips and such. I could keep it all in my head, but why when I can search for solutions, bookmark them and document the least amount to be able to do it all again in the future?
    • The ability to remember to repeat back long strings of digits is actually highly correlated with measures of general intelligence. What is even more correlated with general intelligence, however, is the ability to repeat them backwards.
  • But instead, because anyone who can tie their shoes can get net access, the apparent signal to noise ratio is considerably skewed.

    30+ years ago, most people of nominal to below average intelligence generally kept low paying jobs, stayed in their locales (often for their entire lives), and stuck with jobs that suited them, and of course, were not on the internet. Like the middle class' dirty little secret (much like how the autistic were treated), you didn't hear very much about them.

    Of course, since many of
  • Some don't.

    I'd guess that writing did. After all, now you could learn from dead white males (or dead Chinese|et cetera males). That lets you develop more of your natural abilities than you would if you never talked to anyone but the dolts in your village. When you read, you can use you brain.

    I'd guess that TV didn't increase intelligence. You can't use your brain while you watch. You have all those pictures flooding your mind, and they come much too fast to sort, consider and file away. You might

  • Is technology making us smarter?

    I don't know, lemme google for it.
  • Way dumber. (Score:4, Funny)

    by BigZaphod ( 12942 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:23PM (#13599016) Homepage
    Oh yes. Certainly dumber.

    Of course I have no actual evidence for this. But that's cuz I'm dumber now than I was yesterday when I'm sure I had the proof bookmarked someplace. It keeps getting worse, too. By this time next week I'll probably forget how to form sentences and have to google each word in order to build up my thoughts. That'll probably suck. Of course since I'll be dumber I won't notice anyway.
  • Good Quote (Score:2, Informative)

    by mandrake649 ( 530773 )
    "Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." -- Robert Heinlein
  • by tod_miller ( 792541 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @04:44PM (#13599200) Journal
    And 'uneducated' farmer 200 years ago was perhaps one of the more educated general folk, knowing much about the land. He used technology of his time.

    Today modern farmers know more or less? They certainly know different things. The article is redundant because it doesnt define intelligence.

    Certainly people are more free thinking today, and have been educated in how to learn things (I would hope, judging by teh intarwebnet masses this isn't so). So peoples intelligence (natural free thinking, ability to push their minds) is up, so is knowledge, such as random facts from wikipedia.

    Why? 200 years ago there were only 112 music, documentary cultural and shopping channels available on cable, not there are more. You get it.

    Information is flowing like quick silver (most of it is like shit, like engaydget blogs), we are at a time where for the FIRST TIME in history free, mass communication is available to all (potentially) unrestricted and secure, globalized and revolutionary.

    First thing that happens? it all starts getting locked back down again... anyway... people don't truly appreciate the internet until their own mum buys something from china, without realising.

    No, I don't mean made in china, I mean a chinese company, selling internationally.

    Each day I speak to almost 30 nationalities, and I try and get something from each of them. Who did that 200 years ago?

    The fact that there is a hetrogenous level of education now is great, and I see that when this moves globally, and EVERY child on earth gets a good, competative education, we will realise we are no longer breeding hatred into generations but understanding.

    Or some crap.

    To confirm you're not a script,
    please type the word in this image: kidnaps

    random letters - if you are visually impaired, please email us at pater@slashdot.org
  • As with most problems in my life, I blame Microsoft.

    Listen: Many years ago, when I was in grade school, the calculator was totally verboten. This led me and my age-mates to learn all sorts of things, like long division and multiplication tables, by heart. Imagine that!

    Almost 2 decades later, it seems that whenever I need to do a calculation, there's always a silly Windows computer in front of me with a hotkey assigned to the built-in calculator applet. It's quick, easy, accurate, and completely precludes

  • by TomorrowPlusX ( 571956 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @05:06PM (#13599380)
    Quantifying intelligence is a fool's errand, at best. And over time, by god. Every generation believes the young folk are lazy idiots, and that civilization's going down the tubes.

    And then you read example essay material from students today in universities and you think, "holy shit, they're right, these people are dumber than a sack of hammers".

    But as far as I'm concerned, the *sum* is much higher today than ever before. More people are literate than ever before, more people have some basic math skills than ever before. More people get some basic schooling ( even if they don't want it, or use it ) than ever before.

    Perhaps in the old days ( up until a couple centuries ago ) you might have had a situation where 95% of the population were illiterate in every way. No reading, no math, no geography. No knowledge except how to do their respective jobs. And the remaining 5% might have been, by our standards of thoroughness, quite well educated, with serious teachings in history, language, rhetoric, natural philosphy, etc.

    Today education is better distributed, even if it means that we have some fairly dumb people coming out of our universities. The fact is, more people are getting an education, or at least the *means* for an education. If they should fail at it, it's their own damn fault, not society.

    And the smart people today, by god, they're astonishing. Just pick up any book on some specialized field, say, physics, literature, GPU shader programming, biology, whatever. The work these people do blows my mind.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's all A-O-K. At least the responsibility for success (or failure) lies progressively in our own hands. I'd say that's a step in the right direction.
  • by 3seas ( 184403 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @06:30PM (#13599924) Homepage Journal
    Whats really happening is:

    The act of programming is inherently of incorporating the mindset of the programmers and then subjecting the users to it by forcing the users to have to think in the terms the programmer layed down in the users operation of the program.

    Microsoft intentionally applies this fact and is why most users don't have a clue about the shell (and those who have used microsofts shell find it discouraging).

    There are other places where the programming is not very intelligent but subject the users to its dumbness... Earthlink Webmail has been such a place, where not so long ago you had to individually select which mail you wanted to delete. But where 80% or better is spam and in the amount of at least 100 a day.

    After communicating to them like a child, they finally put in a "select all" allowing you to then deselect the few you wanted to keep (the effects of that must have been enormus on the reduction of spam in general held on Earthlinks servers -- maybe thats where they got the additional 90 megs of email stirage space they now give me without my asking)

    But the point is, when you have an industry that can only see as far forward as .... well, how to make the user upgrade... then you have to leave stuff out and promise some of it next release as you figure out what then to take away...

    Does this make users dumb?

    Probably doesn't help the intelligence level of the users to improve, but intentionally "makes users need ... MS"...

    Users aren't stupid, the software industry is and what choice does the users have but to be subjected to such bullshit?

    Things don't have to be this way, but are currently, just as the Catholic Church promoted the Roman Numeral system of math, even when they were presented with a simpler and more powerful system of the Hindu-Arabic Decimal system.

     
  • by MrCreosote ( 34188 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @08:36PM (#13600714)
    between knowing 1+1=2, and knowing why.
  • A little off topic (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rm999 ( 775449 ) on Monday September 19, 2005 @11:42PM (#13601548)
    The article mentions On Intelligence, Jeff Hawkins' book about intelligence. I read it this summer, and think it is a great book with a lot of insightful comments that will seem almost obvious after you finish the book. On Intelligence presents his theory of how the brain becomes intelligent and how that information can be applied to computers. Anyone interested in AI should look into it (although it's not exactly a light read).

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique. -- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341]

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