Google Declares War on Microsoft 628
hajmola writes "According to an article in The Inquirer, 'Google has confirmed that it will launch free spreadsheet and word-processing software online and take on Microsoft in one of its biggest markets. Under the deal, Google will allow web users to access Sun's OpenOffice from a toolbar.'" This is full confirmation of a story from Tuesday. Forbes thinks this isn't anything to write home about, while InfoWorld disagrees.
Has anything like this been done before? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:5, Funny)
Sure. Hotmail.
I guess this mean's Microsoft will now buy Google, and then proceed to completely fuck it up.
ThinkFree Office (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.thinkfree.org/ [thinkfree.org]
But I imagine Google/Sun will get more publicity.
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Has anything like this been done before? NO. (Score:5, Interesting)
possible due to lack of bandwith.
If I wanted to runn a web based app like those darn java applets
that couldn't compete with apps running local.
Now, With Broadband in place(4 Mbps or more), You can access a Full fledged app
from the web and and rival in performance with your locally install MS Crap.
Microsoft bussiness model:
Control the distribution channel (CD's/preinstalled)
Pay for programs, not conent.
Google bussiness model:
Control the distribution channel (WEB-HOSTS-SERVICES/WI-FI)
Pay for conent, not programs.
The clock is ticking
Re:Has anything like this been done before? NO. (Score:4, Informative)
We all know what happenned to the big bad IBM of yesterday...
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft had already long decided to kill Google. They've a Google-killer search engine, a maps adjunct, all that. They want Google dead, and being a monopoly, they can use dominance in their OS and Office products to spend any competitor to death.
But, Google decided to try to kill it's preordained assassin.
Google was on top in search engine software; Office-like software was free, for crissakes. Why not simply blend the two together? What would it hurt? Maybe Microsoft, if the world's annoyance with closed specs on its office documents achieves critical mass.
Google may become top dog, but only because the alternative was to be a dead dog.
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:3, Insightful)
It has been a very long time since I last checked out the MS search-engine, so I gave it a try. First I went to google and typed 'microsoft search'. OK, the first result was right. I followed the link and typed 'google search'. Also a correct result, with even some ads sponsored by google. The layout of msn search is a complete and utter ripoff of google, so it's very functional. Then the hard test: searching for linux on both sites. To my surprise they produced similar
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:4, Informative)
It's been done plenty. (Score:5, Interesting)
That being said, I don't want to have to be internet-connected in order to work on a word processor document.
Re:It's been done plenty. (Score:3, Insightful)
What about when internet access is as reliable as electricity?
Think about folks with electric stoves/ovens and microwaves. No gas cooking appliances. They don't seem to say, "That being said, I don't want to have to have electricity in order to cook a meal". People have bitten that bullet, and I'm sure they can count the amount of disruption they've experienced on one hand.
Yes, sometimes you have
Re:It's been done plenty. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's been done plenty. (Score:4, Insightful)
"Sometimes a dirty hack Is the best soloution"
Re:It's been done plenty. (Score:3, Interesting)
You should lo
Re:Has anything like this been done before? (Score:3, Informative)
Similar? Have you forgotten Corels Java Adventure? (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's someone who kept the old Corel Java Office [dundee.ac.uk]. I remember being cautiously exited about this, but it turned out the computers of that time and the bandwith generaly available were a killer for this app (pun intended)...
Cheers...
How is this a confirmation? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:5, Insightful)
From the press release: "the companies have agreed to explore opportunities to promote and enhance Sun technologies, like the Java Runtime Environment and the OpenOffice.org productivity suite".
Which is quite different from "will launch free spreadsheet and word-processing software online".
Microsoft's dinosaurs (Score:5, Informative)
Instead of quibbling over nuances, consider this: Is it technically feasible to do this? Would there be any benefit? You betcha. Roger Kay's dinosaur quote below is great. It's funny, whenever you see one of those Microsoft adverts with the dinosaurs, it makes me think what a great OpenOffice add it would be, with Microsoft's Bob being one of the dinos.
And the press release says (Score:5, Informative)
-Google will promote Java runtime and stuff
Nowhere does it say that there will be a in-browser version on OpenOffice. It's speculation. If you disagree, link me a press release and quote it.
-everphilski-
speculates not states (Score:5, Insightful)
You'll find the above paragraph is CNN's speculation on the press release, not part of the press release itself.
Re:speculates not states (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's dissect that (Score:4, Insightful)
They will promote a Java desktop program. Whoopee! More marketing, that's impressive.
It could mark a shift away from Microsoft. Whoopee! It COULD be something.
It does say Java-based programs, implying something running in the browser, but I wonder how many people will be happy waiting for some huge word processor applet to download to work on a document .
There sure isn't much substance there.
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:5, Informative)
Somehow, the media seem to have spun this into "Under the deal, Google will allow web users to access Sun's OpenOffice from a toolbar." OK, fair enough - if you type "open office" into the Google toolbar, it'll help you 'access' it by telling you you can get it from www.openoffice.org - but it'll do the same for any other office suite, product or search phrase you can think of.
And then the Inquirer actually goes a step further with "Google has confirmed that it will launch free spreadsheet and word-processing software online and take on Microsoft in one of its biggest markets." Um, no. Google has confirmed nothing of the sort.
The actual Google press release is at http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/pressrel/sun_
But hey. Who needs facts when you can use hype instead?
its not (Score:5, Funny)
Invent and write story in blog that the company everybody loves is going to destroy the company everybody loves to hate. People believe it because they want to.
Buy stock in the company everybody loves to hate at a discount.
Wait 3 days for everybody to realize its just lies.
Sell stock for big profit.
News Flash, SEC starts to investigate bloggers.
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:3, Funny)
Aw, crap. GOOGLE rumor.
Ignore me, I'll learn to read better next time
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:3, Informative)
More "full confirmations" (Score:5, Funny)
Inquirer's article is so grossly irresponsible, and the summary so inaccurate, that I think this should just be removed
Re:More "full confirmations" (Score:3, Funny)
Well, Google has my vote!
I think a Google-Kodos ticket would be unbeatable.
Re:How is this a confirmation? (Score:5, Funny)
GOOGLE HAS confirmed that it will
The other day, when Sun's Scott McNealy and
See, there ya go!
Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:5, Informative)
Not only that, but the name of it isn't OpenOffice, it's OpenOffice.org (which is incredibly stupid-sounding and I wish they'd figure out a way to fix that). If Google and Sun were partnering on this, they'd use StarOffice, not OpenOffice.org.
You'd think journalists would be more careful, this soon after the single-use DVD hoax...
Re:Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:5, Funny)
Oh yeah, I'm sure every "journalist" in the country did alot of soul-searching after that.
Re:Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:3, Funny)
Tomorrow on slashdot: read about the new browser Google will build, based on Netscape's Mozilla!
Re:Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:5, Funny)
Amazing! Will you be able to launch it from a toolbar button?
Re:Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sun's OpenOffice? (Score:4, Interesting)
I completely agree.
What's worse, calling it OpenOffice.org causes other problems when using it. I fired up the MS Access replacement in 2.0 and was propmted if I wanted to register my new database with OpenOffice.org. Do they mean the website? The organizaton? The office suite so the new database can be used globally?
Its a shame that this confusing part was thrown in as I very much like the application.
Blame the trademark system then (Score:3, Insightful)
OpenOffice(TM) is a trademark of some other company, not Sun. Therefore OpenOffice.org is the name of the LGPL'd part of StarOffice. It's in the FAQ if anybody actually bothered to read it.
OpenOffice.org name FAQ [openoffice.org]
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Re:Blame the trademark system then (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because they can't call it "OpenOffice" doesn't mean they should use "OpenOffice.org" everywhere.
has there been..... (Score:2)
Re:has there been..... (Score:5, Interesting)
But really using apps over the network is NOT I repeat NOT new. When I started in software in the early 1980s all we had were cheap green-screen Televideo 9600 buad terminals hardwired to a mainframe (or VAX in some cases) server. All the applications ran on the server. This is just an "upgrade" to 1980s technology, with a nicer user interface. I'm not impressed with the idea, but I am glad someone is after MS. INMHO, competition is good and produces better products for less.
Re:has there been..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only is it just speculation, it's just speculation from stupid people.
There's no way in hell Google or anyone else is gonna make an AJAX-based front-end to StarOffice or OpenOffice.org; that's a retarded idea. Google could build their own AJAX-based word processor and spreadsheet, and maybe license some of the code for importing/exporting
Next Question.... (Score:5, Funny)
(This is one war I think protesters will be null)
Re:Next Question.... (Score:3, Funny)
/me ducks
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly the same way that Google Maps helps you, I'd expect. Which is to say not at all.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
C'mon, your a geek. More than 20 ft from a hotspot or a enet jack and you start to get the shakes...
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Get a reliable network connection, just as you would do for your other utilities.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Y'all miss how Microsoft "Won" (Score:5, Insightful)
Word wasn't "better" than WordPerfect (if you are running a transcription service or something similar, people have the FASTEST results with WP 5.1 than ANY modern system), and Excel wasn't "better" than Lotus 1-2-3. However, they were less than half the price and you could get the bundle for less than either program individually.
Sure, business travelers will have no interest in virtual open office... at least for the forseeable future, but home users MIGHT. My wife uses web mail (Gmail), because she can check it at the office AND at home. If she works on a personal document, she emails it to herself. A virtual (GOffice) would work for her.
Sure, those of us that work on laptops on flights would have no interest, but that doesn't matter.
If Google grabs the bottom 50% of the market, than Microsoft is in trouble... they can't sell companies on paying $100/machine to OEM office if the competition eats their lunch because home users use Goffice and business users get site licenses.
Remember why software often is winner-take-all. The costs are 99% R&D, and 1% Variable, therefore, the contribution margin on each sale is close to 99% of price. If Microsoft loses 10% of Office, that could reduce their "profits" by 20%, 30%, or more... If they need 30% of the market to cover their R&D costs, and they hold 70%, than a 10% loss in marketshare loses 25% of their profits...
Google just needs to eat them from the bottom, and Microsoft is in trouble.
Microsoft's business REQUIRES being "good enough" for 70%-90% of the markets that they play in. The smaller market remaining forces their competition higher and higher up the chain.
Apple's OS R&D isn't going to be THAT MUCH smaller than Microsoft's, which forces Apple's prices to be higher (compare Apple's margins on hardware to Microsoft's OEM deals... for fairness, backout the gross margin that other manufacturers make, probably 10%, and you see Apple's OS "premium" which is 8x-10x Microsoft's OEM price)...
MS SQL Server forced Oracle and DB2 out of the low end of the market, which keeps them in the premium spot despite better tech, because MS SQL is "good enough" and therefore a price drop doesn't grab marketshare for the better players.
This is why Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL and other Open Source solutions scare Microsoft... Microsoft can't sell a lot of web servers (compared to their marketshare in desktops or Office Suites), because LAMP is "good enough," which has REALLY hurt them... in that they thought they could leverage the Win95 monopoly into a server monopoly, which they never obtained.
Alex
Re:Y'all miss how Microsoft "Won" (Score:5, Insightful)
Word wasn't "better" than WordPerfect (if you are running a transcription service or something similar, people have the FASTEST results with WP 5.1 than ANY modern system), and Excel wasn't "better" than Lotus 1-2-3. However, they were less than half the price and you could get the bundle for less than either program individually.
With respect, you're wrong. WordPerfect and Lotus were the best office apps for *DOS*. Microsoft couldn't sell *any* copies of Word or Excel for DOS because they were out-done.
Microsoft's business growth depended on selling apps so they devised a strategy to change the platform.
Microsoft created pushed Windows, and Word and Excel were far-and-away the best Office apps for the Windows environment.
They couldn't compete on DOS apps, so they changed the platform. This is exactly what Google is now doing to them. No one in the world can compete with Microsoft on Windows Office apps, so Google is changing the platform to the web.
Will work. Microsoft is in trouble.
Sam
Re:Y'all miss how Microsoft "Won" (Score:3, Insightful)
For the past 10 years, we've been told about how the Web was the next platform. How thin clients were going to rise up and take back the market.
It hasn't happened. As it turns out, thin clients have not taken off. And the Web has not replaced desktop applications.
Of course, this is Google, and, as their stock price indicates, they can do anything.
Re:Y'all miss how Microsoft "Won" (Score:3, Insightful)
You are wrong. So very very wrong.
In the old days, I did electronic banking using a fat client. It was a DOS executable that had a proprietary protocol over a dedicated leased line (serial) to the bank. That's all gone now, replaced with a much better thin client (Firefox).
I can buy my groceries online! I've done it once to see what it was like. I didn't have to install a fat cl
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:3)
Thank you.
Thing to Ponder (Score:5, Interesting)
All the power to them if they suck some marketshare from Office. But there is one thing about the direction that all this is taking that bothers me.
TFA says it's not the value of the software but rather the service and content that matters. I'd tend to agree with that statement. But a little part of me can't help but dislike and be paranoid about all these web services. Do you really want the future of web processing to be entirely web based and saved on somebody else's machine? G-mail bothers me like that -- even though I pretty much use it exclusively for e-mail now.
I'm not a big fan of making all the desktops in the World into dumb terminals -- even if that means some measure of freedom from Microsoft.
Re:Thing to Ponder (Score:5, Funny)
Do you really want the future of web processing to be entirely web based and saved on somebody else's machine?
That would be word processing and the reason that preview exists. Oh well ;)
Re:Thing to Ponder (Score:3, Insightful)
Well then don't use online services if they bother you. You have it totally within y
Re:Thing to Ponder (Score:3, Insightful)
Security? You mean the security to have your bank records subpenoaed by law enforcement/divorce lawyer/RIAA? Do you really want all of your data on a server out there subject to this?
That's my issue with G-mail. And the little known fact that after six months you lose a lot of protection relating to communications. I really do not want to see a future where all data is stored remotely. How do you know when you delete it that it's really gone? G-mail's privacy policy is purposefully vauge on this poin
Re:Thing to Ponder (Score:3, Insightful)
Data stored on your home computer is no less protected, as seen by recent lawsuits and search & seizures by the parties you mention.
I would beg to differ on that statement. Let's say I'm getting divorced and my wife's lawyer wants to subpoena all my e-mail looking for something to use against me.
If my e-mail is stored at G-mail I might not even know that they received copies of it. At least if it's on my PC at home it's going to be pretty obvious. Besides that I have control over my home computer
I was wondering what was going to happen (Score:2, Insightful)
A war where everybody wins (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A war where everybody wins (Score:4, Funny)
Why the web interface? (Score:4, Interesting)
Office Online Long Overdue (Score:5, Interesting)
From a toolbar? (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it a web app?
Where does it run from?
Re:From a toolbar? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sun ported at least the interface portion of StarOffice to Java a while back (they called it Star Portal or something). They could easily bundle the Sun JVM with the Google Toolbar (something they said earlier they would do) then have some kind of Java Web Start thing to download a Java front-end to Star Office which possibly does some processing on the server (although I can't really imagine what, unless Sun wanted to re-invent NeWS with a Java front-end replacing the PostScript portion).
[1] That means made up.
a toolbar, wow shocking (Score:2)
So where is OpenOffice, is it on het net or on the pc? If it's on the pc then I don't see a big difference between having an FTP client plus OpenOffice?
google beat em (Score:3, Insightful)
MIcrosoft, meet IBM . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Because IBM didn't understand the value of the desktop to the user, and Microsoft did, IBM lost big time. Only by totally reinventing themselves as a service provider FIRST and a computer company second did IBM survive.
Today, Sun and Google understand the value of the internet to the user, and Microsoft doesn't. They never have. That's why to this day, despite numerous losses and being forced to bow to consummer demands, MS thinks "embracing and extending" open network protocol standards is a good thing. Microsoft can not survive a market place they don't understand. No business can.
You either make money, or eventually you fail, that's the reality of business. In a world where computer software production is becomming more and more commodity production, MS doesn't know how to survive. Sun and Google do. So, Bill, meet Sam Palmisano, he can teach you a bit about what you will need to do after the bankrupcy . . .
Deleting Office (Score:3, Interesting)
Let me get this straight (Score:5, Insightful)
For a business, dropping out $500 isn't much, especially when compared to wages (this is something OSS needs to understand when they try and convince businesses they're cheaper - the initial cost is meaningless, they want figures on the support cost). On the other hand, having your critical work depend on a network connection to some internet server is quite a huge risk (especially if you can't call up that internet server and demand instant human support for any little problem). And that's before you figure in the fact that Google's whole business model is personal information data mining. Even if Google is going to give their song and dance that they won't use it for evil, most companies aren't going to let a 3rd party store their documents, let alone run an automated program over every document they have mining out key information. As has been shown in the past "Google Hacking" is often used to get to information you weren't supposed to see. Can you imagine "Google Hacking" used for corporate espionage? A company wants to know if their competitor is looking into sprockets. So they take out an "ad" on Google specifically targeted at that keyword, but with completely different ad text. They then record IPs from incoming clicks to gauge if that ad was shown to people in the target company a lot, indicating that Google had mined that phrase from many of their documents and emails (gmail). And that's before you consider the fact that Google becomes a serious hacking target (even to hostile foreign governments), since a breach would affect tens of thousands of companies. With so many eggs in one basket it might be enough to warrent a physical breakin, stealing the data of thousands of companies, which are then sold to competitors or held for blackmail.
Re:Let me get this straight (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually most medium size businesses that I know off complain about the high cost of Office. However after long negotiations, M$ usually offers much better values on bundles.
Details? (Score:5, Interesting)
What's it going to be
1) Google directs you to the staroffice website for you to download &
install it locally on your machine & google provides a place for you to
store your documents
OR
2) Google & Sun rebuild StarOffice as a Webservice & then allow you
to edit your document through a webapp & also proves a place for
you to store your documents
Model 1 -> In my opinion, doesn't provide anything new. You
can do it now. Still doesn't solve the problem of people being
locked to Microsoft's format.
Model 2 -> May be good - may solve the problem of people being bound to
the Microsoft document format (i.e. the format isn't important if you have
a service, which is always accessible to everyone to open/edit/print it,
but there is one problem.
50% of the time, documents are edited offline. It's going to be some
years, before people are online all the time. Even when that happens,
what happens if your service goes down & you need to edit the document
coz you have a presentation in 15 minutes.
Plus can a webbased service really provide all the functionality & speed of
a native application?
Less privacy for us... (Score:3)
I bet they'll be crawling all the documents you type, all the data you input, cross refer that with all your mail from your GMail account/Online searches/Google-Maps activity/Google Talk conversations/ISP traffic where Google-Wifi is available, etc.
It seems we're all waiting for it to become "too late" before we realize what's been going on.
Google can do far greater damage then Microsoft ever could.
Soon enough, Google would turn out to be our worst privacy intrusion nightmare.
Wake up people!
Er (Score:3, Interesting)
Is Google throwing money at OO.o? (Score:3, Interesting)
Or perhaps the problem I am describing has already been managed and I just haven't caught on -- this wouldn't be the first time. So if anyone could offer answers, I'm listening. I use FC4 and keep it as "stock" as possible by using only updates from the main channels. (I have broken my own rules, recently by subscribing myself to the nr-production channels to gain access to Gnome 2.12 as I have found it to be VASTLY faster and VASTLY more stable than 2.10 or whatever FC4 normally uses.)
Anyway... I digress... I hope Google will participate, then, in the development of OO.o and perhaps even in the Linux Desktop movement!
War, huh! What is it good for? (Score:5, Funny)
Lovin it! (Score:3, Interesting)
Now if only Linux was as EASY to use as Windows, and we are there. I'm thinking something Mac OSX-esque for Linux -- Google has the means to deliver it. They don't need to release their own distro of Linux, but they can release a KDE/GNOME competitor that makes using Linux a BREEZE.
I'm just waiting for the day
Google's brand (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, MS has some strong arming advantages in their tactics to protect themselves from Google, but they've already been limited by the government, people are becoming frustrated with MSFT's stock performance [yahoo.com] over the past five years, and CNBC has been pointing out threats like Linux and the world is taking it seriously.
So, in addition to software quality, Google's war will be helped greatly by their brand, imo.
The beginning... (Score:3, Interesting)
Two years ago I introduced firefox to a friend who I thought was tech savvy but I was amazed by her reaction, "You're telling me we have a choice of what browser we want to use?" Needless to say I was floored. Non geeks know who Sun is but everybody including Joe "I don't need no dang computer" Sixpack knows who Google is.
Let's forget for a moment that this is Sun's Star Office and not Open Office, and it's Google and web-based.
This maybe the moment when the general public finally realizes that they have a choice what software to run. This can only be good for OSS if marketed/reported in the right way.
Let's not get over zealous bashing M$ and say screaming about Linux, OpenOffice, Gimp & NVU...baby steps...our time will come.
And remember...do no evil!
Google makes love, not war (Score:5, Insightful)
Google can be a resoundingly successful company even if Microsoft is alive and well, and they're fine with that. The only thing Google needs from Microsoft is for them not to put up artificial barriers to accessing Google's services, such as modifying IE in ways that hamper Google. So I'm sure Google would love to see everyone using a non-MS browser such as Firefox.
I really think Google's strategy is (or should be) to lift the key services and applications from the OS up into well-made web services. Word processing is a huge one for most of us. I'm still anxiously hoping that a calendar and scheduler (Outlook-type program) comes along soon to integrate with Gmail. Once Google fills those needs, assuming they do it well, I'll really enjoy having consistent services that I can use from anywhere, on any platform.
What does that MEAN, exactly? (Score:3, Insightful)
That doesn't mean Google will launch an online/web-enabled write/spreadsheet application. That could be something as miniscule as linking to OpenOffice.org from the GoogleToolbar to "download" the application. Google has not confirmed the development of a web-enabled word processor. Everyone has simply drawn that conclusion based upon speculation.
I want something official or nothing at all.
Google word .. (Score:5, Funny)
Why Ooo (Score:3, Insightful)
Search for Kiko, Num Sum and Writely to get an idea of a web-based office.
StarOffice is allowed to use Microsoft's Patents (Score:5, Insightful)
Go Google!
One problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
Gah. (Score:3, Insightful)
There is no war here, move along.
This could really be it. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm tired of emailing my coworker a spreadsheet that is at a clients house, has to download the email open it, use it, close it, email it and hope I haven't done anything with it.
What's that rumbling noise? (Score:3, Funny)
Google Toolbar (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bar None. (Score:5, Insightful)
1) A Java runtime ($0)
2) The Google Toolbar ($0)
3) OpenOffice.org. ($0)
This cost users a prohibitively high price (3 times $0!) Now, thanks to these revolutionary decisions by Sun and Google, you only have to pay $0 once. One enormous $0 download. What a deal! A third the price for all the functionality.
Re:Google offering free office (Score:3)
By putting randomly a "brought to you by google ©" picture as a 10% black backplane through all the documents. At least 5 time per page.